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NFT: Mets at Marlins Game 4 Harvey Day

ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 11:37 am
New York Mets

Curtis Granderson – CF
Neil Walker – 2B
Yoenis C้spedes – LF
Jay Bruce – RF
Lucas Duda – 1B
Travis d’Arnaud – C
Jos้ Reyes – SS
Wilmer Flores – 3B
Matt Harvey – RHP
Miami Marlins

Dee Gordon – 2B
J.T. Realmuto – C
Christian Yelich – CF
Giancarlo Stanton – RF
Justin Bour – 1B
Marcell Ozuna – LF
Derek Dietrich – 3B
Miguel Rojas – SS
Dan Straily – P

Easter edition. LGM!
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Marlins legit have 5 all stars in their lineup  
CMicks3110 : 4/16/2017 4:05 pm : link
Stanton
Ozuna
Gordon
Realmuto
Yelich

This team is no slouch. We did not take advantage of their bad starting pitching at all. Later in the game we are at such a disadvantage.
he's  
JayBinQueens : 4/16/2017 4:07 pm : link
out!
Holy shit, what a play. I can't believe they sent Ozuna.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/16/2017 4:07 pm : link
Crazy.
Reyes replacement  
Keyser : 4/16/2017 4:08 pm : link
I have a radical idea to fill the black hole in the lineup that is Jose Reyes. They could just start Wilmer Flores at 3b everyday and see what happens ....

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Sorry, what was I thinking. Obviously the Mets should look to reacquire Ruben Tejada.
BOOM  
GMenLTS : 4/16/2017 4:08 pm : link
CES DROOBS

OUT

what a stupid fucking send  
GMenLTS : 4/16/2017 4:09 pm : link
they had second and third with 1 out
granted  
GMenLTS : 4/16/2017 4:10 pm : link
it took two near perfect throws to get him out
unreal  
timintey : 4/16/2017 4:10 pm : link
sick of the Marlins. Get the hell out of here. On to the next series
and doesn't fucking matter  
GMenLTS : 4/16/2017 4:10 pm : link
lame
Wow.  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 4:10 pm : link
Fuck the Marlins. Get the hell out of Miami.
RE: Marlins legit have 5 all stars in their lineup  
PhiPsi125 : 4/16/2017 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13430353 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
Stanton
Ozuna
Gordon
Realmuto
Yelich

This team is no slouch. We did not take advantage of their bad starting pitching at all. Later in the game we are at such a disadvantage.


No doubt, but a good offense should tee off on their pitching. We've had ONE big inning in four games against this team and that was a 16 inning game. And you can't complain about the cold weather in Miami.

I hate the Marlins.
So far this season  
Mike in NY : 4/16/2017 4:12 pm : link
Reed has given up the first career HR to Brock Stassi and J.T. Biddle
Mets bullpen  
XBRONX : 4/16/2017 4:12 pm : link
has been trash this series. The starters give great efforts and get hung out to dry.
If you watch Granderson and Reyes at the plate  
Chris L. : 4/16/2017 4:14 pm : link
you can see they are not close to getting going. Both need to see the bench and lots of it.
Need more Conforto  
spike : 4/16/2017 5:17 pm : link
instead of Granderson.

We have no one to play 3B.
The bullpen is thin with Familia, without him it's bad & exhausted  
Eric on Li : 4/16/2017 10:22 pm : link
Thankfully there's only a few games left without him, hopefully at that point guys will be able to get some rest and slot into their more comfortable roles.

I'm also hopeful those who don't appreciate that he's 1 of the top closers in the game will now realize how central he's been to this team's success and that he's basically as close to perfect as relievers get. He's appeared in 154 games the past 2 years, saved 94 of them, and lost just 6 - it's not hard to make the case that he's the most irreplaceable player on this team. His absence has probably cost this team 2 or 3 wins already.
lol.  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 11:18 pm : link
The bullpen is not thin with Familia....
After a 16 inning marathon,  
sshin05 : 4/16/2017 11:27 pm : link
they lost basically to 3 walk-offs in a row. Tons of bullpen usage early on as I think Collins is trying to be careful with the SP out of the starting gate and thus relying heavily on the BP. He needs to trust some other guys too in the middle innings.
And there is no way in all of holy fuck  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 11:28 pm : link
Familia being out cost us 2 wins already. If you even remotely follow WAR at all you know that a closer is worth maybe 2 wins total for the entire season. And that's the absolute best of the best them. There are so many other factors involved. We have not had the lead in the 9th and blown a game yet since he's been out. Has the losses been on the hitters not hitting, our manager not managing, good players not performing, the wrong players not performing, or just damn good performances from our opponent. We will never know. Wake me when Reed blows a game in the 9th with a lead and MAYBE we'll talk (Familia blows games too).
RE: After a 16 inning marathon,  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 11:33 pm : link
In comment 13430839 sshin05 said:
Quote:
they lost basically to 3 walk-offs in a row. Tons of bullpen usage early on as I think Collins is trying to be careful with the SP out of the starting gate and thus relying heavily on the BP. He needs to trust some other guys too in the middle innings.


He certainly hasn't trusted Smoker enough who was great today again. He should have been getting more late inning work earlier. Either way, it's still only what 11 games? The bullpen is definitely overworked and two guys who have been great let up some runs over the last two days but nobody's going to be perfect all year. We need a day off tomorrow. Everybody needs some rest.

Edgin, Montero, and Gilmartin need to be gone but they shouldn't be part of our 7 anyway. 2 of those 3 will be gone by Thursday.
Mets were in it  
sshin05 : 4/16/2017 11:35 pm : link
in every game. Just couldn't close the deal, its baseball, sometimes these things happen. Also, TC is trying to figure out the team and whats the best configuration. Monday is a badly needed day off.
RE: RE: After a 16 inning marathon,  
sshin05 : 4/16/2017 11:40 pm : link
In comment 13430845 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13430839 sshin05 said:


Quote:


they lost basically to 3 walk-offs in a row. Tons of bullpen usage early on as I think Collins is trying to be careful with the SP out of the starting gate and thus relying heavily on the BP. He needs to trust some other guys too in the middle innings.



He certainly hasn't trusted Smoker enough who was great today again. He should have been getting more late inning work earlier. Either way, it's still only what 11 games? The bullpen is definitely overworked and two guys who have been great let up some runs over the last two days but nobody's going to be perfect all year. We need a day off tomorrow. Everybody needs some rest.

Edgin, Montero, and Gilmartin need to be gone but they shouldn't be part of our 7 anyway. 2 of those 3 will be gone by Thursday.


I'm not sure they have a guy like Buddy Carlyle or Carlos Torres or even a Jim Henderson, guys who can look good for a number of consecutive outings.
RE: Mets were in it  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 11:43 pm : link
In comment 13430847 sshin05 said:
Quote:
in every game. Just couldn't close the deal, its baseball, sometimes these things happen. Also, TC is trying to figure out the team and whats the best configuration. Monday is a badly needed day off.


Of course. It's super early. The team isnt fully hitting yet. I dont like the lineup configuration. Our rotation has been good for the most part and so has the pen. Im hearing Sandy was pissed after last night's game. Some of the beats have mentioned it and Im hearing rumbles on MMO they are having a staff meeting tomorrow. Could be a mini shake-up with lineup or something but who knows.
I just dont get what people's deal is with the pen  
ZGiants98 : 4/16/2017 11:49 pm : link
It was number 2 in baseball last year and actually looks improved...

We have...

Jeurys Familia (top 3-4 closer in baseball the last couple of seasons)
Addison Reed- In conversation for best SU man in baseball last year
Fernando Salas -solid middle reliever /closing experience/has been great as a Met
Josh Smoker - Former first round pick with great stuff who dominated in the minors with us who has performed in Vegas and is now performing in the majors
Jerry Blevins- Best LOOGY in baseball
Hansel Robles - Top 50 reliever in baseball. Can be up and down but is just as good as a "Blanton" and is ten years younger and throws hard

That's 6 guys. Add a long man or Sewald or whoever. No reason the pen should be anything but excellent this season and looking at the rotation/lineup our annual tradeline addition is likely ANOTHER reliever.
Literally the only way you improve that pen  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 12:04 am : link
is by going out and signing another fantastic, proven closer and this seems to be what we come back to over and over again. We have the solid vet middle relief thing taken care of (Blevins/Salas), we have the upside guys that throw hard part taken care of (Smoker/Robles) and we have the two dominant guys at the backend you want (Reed/Familia). I still think we have a couple interesting guys in AAA too (Sewald, McGowan, Rosebloom). So what can we add that we don't already have?

The answer is a dominant closer. That's what people want. They want a three headed monster because the Yankees did it. It's just not realistic. Holland would have been nice but was he really coming here to be our 7th inning guy? I doubt it.
Call  
spike : 4/17/2017 12:32 am : link
Papelbon
A much needed day off today  
spike : 4/17/2017 10:18 am : link
. We gotta do better this week against the Nats
Really can't  
Metnut : 4/17/2017 10:25 am : link
believe after winning that Thursday night game that we'd lose all the games with Thor, DeGrom and Harvey starting. Marlins aren't a bad team and played really hard. All 4 games were entertaining and played hard so I'll tip my cap to that team.

We know our lineup is hot and cold, but it's still tough to take the offense struggling so much against mediocre pitching. I know the numbers aren't there (terrible actually in 2017) and I'm a Flores homer but he's getting together nice ABs and getting good contact off of RHP. It's not time to give up on Reyes yet, but let's not give up on Flores vs RHP yet either.
If they want more offense  
spike : 4/17/2017 10:36 am : link
Then TC better play more Conforto, who is just the third or fourth best bat at the moment (Ces Bruce TDA).
The lineup is a difficult thing to figure out  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:04 am : link
You no doubt would like to get Conforto, Flores, and others involved more but it's also way too early to give up on Reyes, Granderson, and others.
This Nats and Mets series should be fairly entertaining  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:06 am : link
Familia will be back. Rotation, Lineup, and Pen should all be close to full strength for once (I get guys are cold though).
Won't speak for anyone else but my desire  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2017 11:12 am : link
for the Mets ponying up the cash for a lights out back of the pen arm (like Chapman) had nothing to do with the Yankees.

it's just a general approach for shortening games with reliable arms. Giving guys roles and having other reliable options if someone is not available.

Look at last year, the two biggest deadline acquisitions were Chapman and Miller, and where did the Cubs and Indians end up?

I think it's a different way of approaching games, made necessary by today's pitchers and injuries and limits and roles, and the way the game is managed.

And Chapman was available for cash.

I also suggested lesser options like Papelbon or trading for Robertson. Which I believe would help the current pen, especially in the playoffs.

and I still think it's something the Mets should do.

Can they win without doing it? Probably, but I think it would help their chances.
Neither the Indians or Cubs traded for closers  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:17 am : link
So they could have three closers. The only team with the "three closer philosophy" failed miserably and traded off their closers. That said, I think I was on a bit of a rant last night. Everyone's allowed an opinion. Wasn't trying to attack anyone.
RE: The lineup is a difficult thing to figure out  
PhiPsi125 : 4/17/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13431192 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
You no doubt would like to get Conforto, Flores, and others involved more but it's also way too early to give up on Reyes, Granderson, and others.


The Conforto thing really bugs me for some reason. Granderson has had a nice career. And he's done well for the Mets. But at this point, Conforto is the better player in the field and at the plate, and I don't think it's particularly close. Conforto will struggle also, but we need to let the kid play and figure it out.

Granderson is an older player that really shouldn't be your starting option. I'm not saying he needs to be benched, but he certainly should be losing ABs to Conforto at this point.

Reyes is just a turd. He should take a page out of Dee Gordon's and Christian Yelichs playbook and swing for hits, not HRs. Just make contact and get on base. That's your game. Not trying to hit 500 foot HRs.
I really would like to know if any team in baseball  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:23 am : link
Would have given a contract to Chapman if they had two of the top 6 relievers in the game last year already (Reed/Familia). We already have one of the best closers in baseball. Sounds great in theory but I have serious doubts a single team would entertain something like that. Why not trade for Kershaw and Sale too? Let's gut the system for Goldy and make Duda an awesome pinch hitter. Lots of things make the team better. Doesn't mean they are realistic.
Well I don't consider Reed a closer  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2017 11:25 am : link
I think he's a set up guy who has closed before. Like Salas.

and the names can be interchangeable.

Both the Cubs and Indians had closers (with varying degrees of success/competence), but it's the approach, more than the names.

I mean if you had Chapman, Familia, and Reed at the back of your pen, how can anyone argue it's a bad thing?

And with Familia's playoff profile I'd like a guy like Chapman back there too even if someone isn't thrilled with being an 8th inning guy vs closer.
RE: RE: The lineup is a difficult thing to figure out  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:27 am : link
In comment 13431224 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431192 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


You no doubt would like to get Conforto, Flores, and others involved more but it's also way too early to give up on Reyes, Granderson, and others.



The Conforto thing really bugs me for some reason. Granderson has had a nice career. And he's done well for the Mets. But at this point, Conforto is the better player in the field and at the plate, and I don't think it's particularly close. Conforto will struggle also, but we need to let the kid play and figure it out.

Granderson is an older player that really shouldn't be your starting option. I'm not saying he needs to be benched, but he certainly should be losing ABs to Conforto at this point.

Reyes is just a turd. He should take a page out of Dee Gordon's and Christian Yelichs playbook and swing for hits, not HRs. Just make contact and get on base. That's your game. Not trying to hit 500 foot HRs.


Yeah I don't know what the solution is. I had hoped Granderson would be slowly phased out this year and Bruce might be traded eventually. I kind of wanted Conforto to take over RF with maybe Nimmo getting some time with Lagares in CF and all over. I was hoping TJ might get more of a chance and maybe somebody like Cheech would too eventually. I know you probably grimace every time I say it but I really think it's too early right now. Need to let things play out a little more.
RE: Well I don't consider Reed a closer  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:29 am : link
In comment 13431229 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I think he's a set up guy who has closed before. Like Salas.

and the names can be interchangeable.

Both the Cubs and Indians had closers (with varying degrees of success/competence), but it's the approach, more than the names.

I mean if you had Chapman, Familia, and Reed at the back of your pen, how can anyone argue it's a bad thing?

And with Familia's playoff profile I'd like a guy like Chapman back there too even if someone isn't thrilled with being an 8th inning guy vs closer.


Well that's your weird perception then. He was a 100% a closer before coming to the Mets and is now a better pitcher than he ever was. He has over 100 saves and was one of the best relievers in baseball last year. He's also 4 times the pitcher Salas is (who is really just a solid middle relief vet).
The only way I could see  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:34 am : link
It is if people still don't believe Reed is legit. If you think last year was a complete fluke and he's going to turn into a pumpkin then I can get on board with why you would want somebody else. You can't look at what he did last year statistically though and not admit he was one of the most dominant relievers in baseball. He did work with Warthen and has been pretty much lights out since he got here now though (almost 2 years). I see no reason for him to slow down (he's still young-ish) but you never know.
Your perception is that Reed is a closer?  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2017 11:42 am : link
weird.

He lost his closer job in Arizona and was acquired by a Mets team (for a bag of balls) that already had a closer and had a whopping 2 saves with the Mets before having to fill in for a suspended Familia.

whatever, not going to discuss this any more with you.

I think after what he did last year  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 11:58 am : link
(If that's who he is now) he would be a perfectly fine closer on 25 teams out of 30. I already cited his work with Warthen as one of the reasons he is better now then he ever was. The fact that he was a already a good closer with the White Sox for multiple years before going to the Diamondbacks and having an off year is an added bonus.
Z, I don't grimace when you say that it's still early. You are  
PhiPsi125 : 4/17/2017 1:09 pm : link
absolutely right. For me, it's more about ability and production and putting the best product on the field. And I believe that Conforto will offer more that what Granderson will give at this point in his career. And while he hasn't been a disaster in the field, he is definitely limited in his ability at his age. And that's very easy to see. This is no slight on Curtis. He's 36 years old. Lots of tread on those tires.

That being said, Curtis will likely get hot at some point. But overall, Conforto is best for the team. If Curtis is a great a teammate and overall dude as everyone says, I doubt he would make waves.
I agree...  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 1:34 pm : link
I think Conforto's floor is probably what Bruce or Granderson will give this year. I'm that high on him. They are all probably not far off from each other though. Best thing would be to trade off a piece or two and get a decent return to maximize value. Or maybe somebody gets hurt making it moot? Who knows. Feel bad for Michael though.
Jay Bruce  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2017 1:40 pm : link
for Joe Kelly. Red Sox near the bottom in HR's (that won't last) and Bruce has a swing tailor made for Fenway.

Plus he can DH.
RE: Jay Bruce  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13431408 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
for Joe Kelly. Red Sox near the bottom in HR's (that won't last) and Bruce has a swing tailor made for Fenway.

Plus he can DH.


Do you actually know what happened to Kelly last year? I don't watch the Red Sox that much. His walks seemed to skyrocket uncharacteristically?
RE: RE: Jay Bruce  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13431436 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431408 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for Joe Kelly. Red Sox near the bottom in HR's (that won't last) and Bruce has a swing tailor made for Fenway.

Plus he can DH.



Do you actually know what happened to Kelly last year? I don't watch the Red Sox that much. His walks seemed to skyrocket uncharacteristically?


No, but he was used out of the pen for the first time in his major league career, so maybe there was an adjustment.

He's been effective so far this year in SSS, but not missing bats. Velocity seems to be there so far.

Kelly is a guy IMO with the kind of stuff (like Reed) who Warthen can "cure".
RE: RE: RE: Jay Bruce  
pjcas18 : 4/17/2017 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13431464 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431436 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13431408 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


for Joe Kelly. Red Sox near the bottom in HR's (that won't last) and Bruce has a swing tailor made for Fenway.

Plus he can DH.



Do you actually know what happened to Kelly last year? I don't watch the Red Sox that much. His walks seemed to skyrocket uncharacteristically?



No, but he was used out of the pen for the first time in his major league career, so maybe there was an adjustment.

He's been effective so far this year in SSS, but not missing bats. Velocity seems to be there so far.

Kelly is a guy IMO with the kind of stuff (like Reed) who Warthen can "cure".


Sorry, not first time in his career out of the pen, first time in a few years.
Thanks  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 5:08 pm : link
.
Fingers crossed  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 5:10 pm : link
@MattEhalt

Seth Lugo will begin his throwing program tomorrow after two weeks of rest, per a source. Will start from 60 feet.
After the small tear  
ZGiants98 : 4/17/2017 8:19 pm : link
I no longer want Lugo in AAA pitching a ton of innings in AAA. I think he should replace Montero/Gilmartin on the team as the long man.

Familia
Reed
Salas
Smoker
Blevins
Robles
Lugo
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