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*** Official Dave Te Q & A Thread ***

gidiefor : Mod : 4/16/2017 7:36 pm
We are all happy that Dave has decided to regale us with his extensive draft reviews and analysis, and in order to make his life a little easier, please ask all of your draft questions for him on this thread.
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RE: DAVE TE TO KELSTO811  
robbieballs2003 : 4/17/2017 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13431797 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Hey Dave
kelsto811 : 10:31 am : link : reply
Really enjoy your insight. I'm gonna reach here and ask if you know anything about WR Dalton Crossan. He was at our Showcase and showed up, obviously a more likely I drafted guy but curious if you had a chance to review him and your thoughts on his potential with an NFL club? Thanks in advance.
Fox Sports Article - ( New Window )
ANSWER
That freaking RKO reporter stole my line! I told scouts while I was there that this kid is the purr-fect Patriot, like Edelman & Hogan, White & the rest of those motley crew of versatile guys. I was actually there to get a look on the safety, Casey DeAndrade, but Crosson blew me away. He tore Lehigh up for three scores & 184 yards on 24 runs, but boy, that TD catch inside the 10 was sweet! I stood around for the Maine game & he reals off a 35-yard TD scamper that saw him break five tackles. You know Bill – if not drafted, nothing good gets past him out of New England. UNH has not had a talent like him in years. Shame the conference only thought he was worth second team honors.


I coached him in high school. If memory serves me correctly we won a game 73-72 and I think he had 8 TDs. It was one of the craziest games ever. He was just on a different level than everybody else. He was so much quicker than everybody that he just looked like he was jogging half the time. We ran a flex bone offense. It is great to see him having this success. He has a younger brother Trent that was awesome too. Both brothers transferred to the school at the same time. Dalton was a junior and Trent was a freshman. Dalton also started at corner and Trent started at LB. Dalton was a RB but asked the coaches to play QB because all we did was run the ball all the time so he learned to play QB in one offseason and was a monster because he touched the ball every play.
DAVE TE TO MILTON  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 7:15 pm : link
My question for Dave Te...
Milton : 12:53 pm : link : reply
If Cam Robinson is still available when the Giants are on the clock, do they take him?
All depends - if Lamp is there & they take Cam? I come to Rutherford and put Jerry Reese over my knee.
I would also take Reddick or Bowser over Cam, if they slide. I would need a coin toss on him & Jarrad Davis, but would grab Cam over Willis
DAVE TE TO UNCLE DAVE  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 7:19 pm : link
Your "All Draft Me Team"
uncledave : 3:36 pm : link : reply
Loved that thread brother and really appreciate what you do. When I was a teen and fell in love with scouting, nfldraftscout was my encyclopedia (along with following threads on BBI and watching lots of tape). Glad the site still operates the original platform even though CBS wants to redirect me every time.

Guys I love you mentioned: Samaje Perrine, Curtis Samuel, Dion Dawkins, Haason Reddick... but the gold stars are for Jordan Evans (how he was snubbed a combine invite is beyond me), Brian Allen, Tanoh Kpassagnon and last but certainly not least Grover Stewart (what a prospect).

I'm a bit surprised about Jarrad Davis given the injury history, his motor and leadership combined with on field talent galore makes sense but how can you justify spending a first round pick on a guy with such a history?
ANSWER
Here’s the thing-everyone knew of Kuechly’s injury history coming out of BC, yet felt he was worth the gamble. Outside of Foster & Reddick (in a 3-4), no inside backer in this draft is better than Davis, when healthy. It’s the risk that a team will have to consider, but 12 games of Davis vs. 16 from Cunningham? I go the 12 route
AS FOR YOU OTHER QUESTION
Bubba, I got 60 questions here & one hour to answer them before the flight. Going to have to leave it as “take one free sample” answer here, sorry
From Dave Te  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 7:20 pm : link
WHEW-I hope I answered them all. If I did not, sorry folks, eyes are going. That's all for Monday-back on later tomorrow, so if you have ants in your pants to get an answer, it has to wait until then, good night Big Blue
RE: From Dave Te  
robbieballs2003 : 4/17/2017 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13431810 nflscouting said:
Quote:
WHEW-I hope I answered them all. If I did not, sorry folks, eyes are going. That's all for Monday-back on later tomorrow, so if you have ants in your pants to get an answer, it has to wait until then, good night Big Blue


You are the man.
Hey Dave  
ajr2456 : 4/17/2017 7:29 pm : link
More of a personal question.

I've done done scouting for some giants websites for the last for years, and currently work in Sports Analytics. Every year I'll send stuff to NFL teams, in hope of an opportunity.

Any advice for breaking in even as a consultant. Can feel free to shoot me an email at anthony.raia24@Gmail.com

Appreciate any insight you can give
Jabrill Peppers  
Syracuse15 : 4/17/2017 7:33 pm : link
Dave: Curious what position you see Peppers playing on pro level? Also wondered about Jarron Jones of ND as a sleeper.
FROM DAVE TE TO  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 7:40 pm : link
Hey Dave
ajr2456 : 7:29 pm : link : reply
More of a personal question.

I've done done scouting for some giants websites for the last for years, and currently work in Sports Analytics. Every year I'll send stuff to NFL teams, in hope of an opportunity.

Any advice for breaking in even as a consultant. Can feel free to shoot me an email at anthony.raia24@Gmail.com

ANSWER
Unfortunately, the business has changed drastically since I entered it in 1968. Most of the personnel hired by teams get interviewed at the Senior Bowl. If they like, you get "invited" to meet again in Indy. To start out off the street these days? Very rare. Most put in their hours with either a college FB team or intern as anything in the front office, but I do not have privy to their requirements (most request a degree & the kicker - work related experience)

IF YOU ARE MARRIED & HAVE KIDS-don't venture here. More than 80% of the scouts I know have been divorced. Hell, my last vacation was in 1983. When my wife died, I could put myself to sleep at night counting my regrets for "taking that assignment" or saying "sorry babe, the team wants me to fly out."
If you know what happened with my wife & her six-year cancer battle, it was not hard for me to walk away from 50 years in the industry. Oh, if I could only have just one more freaking second with her, I would get the word "sorry" spilling off my lips.
Just a thought from a been-there/regret doing that scout
From Dave Te SYRACUSE15  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 7:46 pm : link
Jabrill Peppers
Syracuse15 : 7:33 pm : link : reply
Dave: Curious what position you see Peppers playing on pro level? Also wondered about Jarron Jones of ND as a sleeper.
ANSWER
Oh this kid was born to play for Tennessee, but alas, he will slide to the next best for him, Pittsburgh. Anyone that uses him needs to refer to Troy Polamalu tapes - that is how I would use him - strong safety in run force/free in zone coverage/Cover 2-LB in short yardage, etc.
As for Jones, as a sleeper? I say more so marginal talent, a guy I don't see starting & if anything, a practice squad guy in 2017. 105 tackles in 51 games fail to excite. Yeah, he had 11 TFLs this year, but look how many came (9) late in games with opponents putting second unit guys out there.
Jarron Jones=Arthur Jones - two talented guys with minimal production
Hey Dave!  
David in LA : 4/17/2017 8:02 pm : link
I probably should rephrase my question here. I'd love to hear about some of your personal favorite prospects who didn't quite live up their lofty expectations in the pros (whether it was due to injury, being drafted by a team that didn't use his skillset to their advantage, or just wasn't as good as you thought they'd be)
DAVE TE TO DAVID IN LA  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 8:20 pm : link
Without hesitation, my BIGGEST disappointment is Colin. I was attached at the hip with this kid ever since I scouted him in baseball, personally know his family and went nutso on the kid.
The talent level he has is off the chart, the head is not attached right. He has to get away from that girlfriend & her entourage whispering in his ears. Geez, he looks like a Chia Pet now & plays like a cat (insert your word for cat here) all too much.
Sans the flag issues, there is more than just that keeping him unemployed. Another recent one that comes to mind is Cincy CB Denard - - what a year he had that final season, yet, NFL life is confined to the trainer's room.
BIGGEST STAY AWAY FROM BY ME-to Dave Razzano, trying to talk him out of taking Lawrence Phillips for the Rams. Between him & Aldon Smith, I never met a pair that I wanted to take to the woodshed & pull out the strap - both simply not good for being a member of society
Hey Dave  
Eman11 : 4/17/2017 8:40 pm : link
Thanks for doing this and I'm enjoying the hell out of your insights.

Curious about your thoughts on Tre'Davious White and also if you think he could be in the mix for the Giants?

Thanks.
FROM DAVE TE TO EMAN11  
nflscouting : 4/17/2017 8:47 pm : link
Hey Dave
Eman11 : 8:40 pm : link : reply
Thanks for doing this and I'm enjoying the hell out of your insights.

Curious about your thoughts on Tre'Davious White and also if you think he could be in the mix for the Giants?
ANSWER
Dude, I luv ya, but get out of my brain! I'm at the airport with a scout from San Fran & the PPR from the Cards. We are talking DBs & I ask them for the life of me, why is no one talking about White in the first round, or, why no chatter at all, but Tabor & all the other overrated ones get massive coverage.
The answer? well, the others have flaws we all need to see but with White, he's textbook fashion. But as a Giant? No way he lasts until their pick in 2, and the Giants have more pressing needs (OL, LB, Rush end) to address first.
RE: FROM DAVE TE TO  
ajr2456 : 4/17/2017 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13431829 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Hey Dave
ajr2456 : 7:29 pm : link : reply
More of a personal question.

I've done done scouting for some giants websites for the last for years, and currently work in Sports Analytics. Every year I'll send stuff to NFL teams, in hope of an opportunity.

Any advice for breaking in even as a consultant. Can feel free to shoot me an email at anthony.raia24@Gmail.com

ANSWER
Unfortunately, the business has changed drastically since I entered it in 1968. Most of the personnel hired by teams get interviewed at the Senior Bowl. If they like, you get "invited" to meet again in Indy. To start out off the street these days? Very rare. Most put in their hours with either a college FB team or intern as anything in the front office, but I do not have privy to their requirements (most request a degree & the kicker - work related experience)

IF YOU ARE MARRIED & HAVE KIDS-don't venture here. More than 80% of the scouts I know have been divorced. Hell, my last vacation was in 1983. When my wife died, I could put myself to sleep at night counting my regrets for "taking that assignment" or saying "sorry babe, the team wants me to fly out."
If you know what happened with my wife & her six-year cancer battle, it was not hard for me to walk away from 50 years in the industry. Oh, if I could only have just one more freaking second with her, I would get the word "sorry" spilling off my lips.
Just a thought from a been-there/regret doing that scout


Thanks for the info Dave, and condolences on your wife. Can't imagine what that was like.

If you're ever looking for some side gigs, I'd be happy to have you in my office and take a look at our football analytics platform.

Wish you the best.
Dave -Te  
Archer : 4/17/2017 9:55 pm : link
What are your thoughts on the following (2) players;
Shaquill Griffin and Trey Hendrickson.

These are two players that stood out to me during the year.
They are football players who play fast and physical.
RE: DAVE TE TO ADAMG  
adamg : 4/18/2017 3:44 am : link
In comment 13431762 nflscouting said:
Quote:
adamg : 4/16/2017 7:52 pm : link : reply
In comment 13430526 adamg said:
Quote:
David Jones, FS, Richmond

Jordan Evans, WLB, Oklahoma

Jeremy Sprinkle, TE, Arkansas

Donnel Pumphrey, RB, SDSU


My bad, it's much easier to answer an actual question...

How do you project these guys to pan out? I'm particularly interested if David Jones is a guy you like or not and what you think Sprinkle's ceiling is.
ANSWER
Jones is one of my sleepers! I’ve been pushing him hard on Foxboro, as he not only can fly to the ball, he has great hands. I’d take him by 5, but most have him at the tailend due to the foot injury he suffered. Evans might not get drafted, but he’s better than any LB on the Giants first unit. Sprinkle never got a warm fuzzy feeling from me, as he’s a going through the motions player. As much as folks like McCaffrey, I’m a Pumphrey guy – reminds me of an old Cardinal, Stump Mitchell and with the success that Woodhead & Sproles have had, I see the same career route for that Aztec.


Thanks. Pumphrey excites me as well. He plays with a bit more authority and cockiness than you might expect such a slight guy, and I think he'd bring some attitude to our RB corps. Thanks again.
Dave, another safety I'm looking at  
adamg : 4/18/2017 6:11 am : link
is Eddie Jackson. His stock was sky high last year and dropped to day 2 or 3 pick. Is he a guy on your radar? Where's his value?
Whew!!!  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/18/2017 6:49 am : link
Dave Te! Burning the midnight oil!

Dave, your attention to everyone's questions is way beyond the pale... Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to our members.

We very much appreciate it!!!
RE: Whew!!!  
M.S. : 4/18/2017 9:18 am : link
In comment 13432130 gidiefor said:
Quote:
Dave Te! Burning the midnight oil!

Dave, your attention to everyone's questions is way beyond the pale... Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to our members.

We very much appreciate it!!!

HEAR HEAR!!!
"If I had to give you my “circle of five” in order. I say Reddick,  
PatersonPlank : 4/18/2017 9:59 am : link
Lamp, Willis, Jarrad Davis, Bowser"

I would be happy with this list, especially the first two. I don't really want a TE, we just don't use it enough for a 1st rounder. Plus the top guys don't block that well and we only have 1 ball. In addition I am still very hopeful on Adams.
Eddie Jackson/Sidney Jones  
Syracuse15 : 4/18/2017 10:32 am : link
Where does he fit post injury? Wonder same thing on Sidney Jones. Seems an Achilles would make it hard to come back to form. I am surprised the WR from Clemson Mike Williams has not dropped with neck surgery in his past. I keep seeing him projected in top 10.
Dave  
uncledave : 4/18/2017 11:26 am : link
Again thanks for doing this and sorry for overloading that initial question, didn't realize J Davis was already asked about either... would you mind picking two or three from the list below that you like personally or think would work well for the Gmen in later rounds?

Greyson Lambert QB Georgia
Brian Hill RB Wyoming
Michael Clark WR Marshall
Colin Jeter TE LSU
Jerry Ugokwe OT William & Mary
Greg Pyke OG Georgia
Al-Quadin Muhammad DE U Miami
Eli Ankou DT UCLA and/or Rashaad Coward DT Old Dominion
Matt Milano OLB BC
Tanner Vallejo ILB Boise State
Treston DeCoud CB Oregon State
Jadar Johnson SS Clemson
Delano Hill FS Michigan
FROM DAVE TE to UNCLEDAVE  
nflscouting : 4/18/2017 12:04 pm : link
Dave
uncledave : 11:26 am : link : reply
Again thanks for doing this and sorry for overloading that initial question, didn't realize J Davis was already asked about either... would you mind picking two or three from the list below that you like personally or think would work well for the Gmen in later rounds?

Greyson Lambert QB Georgia
Brian Hill RB Wyoming
Michael Clark WR Marshall
Colin Jeter TE LSU
Jerry Ugokwe OT William & Mary
Greg Pyke OG Georgia
Al-Quadin Muhammad DE U Miami
Eli Ankou DT UCLA and/or Rashaad Coward DT Old Dominion
Matt Milano OLB BC
Tanner Vallejo ILB Boise State
Treston DeCoud CB Oregon State
Jadar Johnson SS Clemson
Delano Hill FS Michigan
ANSWER
If I had to pick just two, it might be a coincidence, as Brian Hill just finished working out for me. He's a strong inside runner, doing a nice job of lowering the pads & driving through contact, evident by his 22 TDs on the ground last year. HOWEVER, I told him to "get off the dance floor," as he does try to cherry pick on his moves & that sometimes leads to a slow step picking a hole. This leads to ball security issues. However, his lateral agility shows very good movement & I love the way he picks up the blitz in pass protection. Hey old timers here - look at film on this kid. Similar to Ron Johnson?

I like the William & Mary tackle & Pyke, but Pyke looks to be a better fit as a reserve at the three inside positions. I think Ugokwe is going to make some GM look great on Day Three. Him & Davenport at Bucknell were my top rated FCS blockers.

Back later this PM- have Wyoming kids to watch today
Dave you missed my question from page 1, but I'm not mad at yeah!  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/18/2017 12:33 pm : link
I appreciate what you do.

Any insight into Isaiah Ford. Likes/dislikes about his game, and what round do you see him being picked?

Also, what do you believe the draft strategy should be with this years OT crop? Since it is supposed to be one of the weakest classes in a while. Do you think the top rated OT's are being overrated, or actually belong where they are estimated to go?
FROM DAVE TE TO ARCHER  
nflscouting : 4/18/2017 6:58 pm : link
Archer : 4/17/2017 9:55 pm : link : reply
What are your thoughts on the following (2) players;
Shaquill Griffin and Trey Hendrickson.

These are two players that stood out to me during the year.
They are football players who play fast and physical.
Hendrickson is an interesting talent, reminding me of the Rams’ new edge rusher, Connor Barwin. Adding to his resume is his abilities on special teams, especially as a kick blocker. He’s athletically gifted & I hope some team looks at his hands, as he has tight end experience and that could save a roster depth spot for a team if they also utilize him for a few snaps on offense, in addition to utilizing him as a short area blocker. As a defender, his range and lateral fluidness makes me hope he ends up standing up in the second level on the strong-side in a 3-4 scheme.
Ah, my boy, crazy-ass Shaq – the guy’s a creepy crawler & that’s a compliment. Those hands of his are secure as a pass thief, but if I ever had to make a video on how to properly elevate to get to the ball at its high point (thefts, break-ups), I will have to entice Shaq into starring for me. The UCF corner might be a better fit at free safety, as I love the way he attacks the ball & it would be a waste to just have him go one-on-one with a receiver.
I see Hendrickson going by round three & Griffin off the boards just before the defensive end. The Steelers have made lots of visits to the film room on Shaq and if they listen to former Pitt star Ike Taylor, look for Griffin in Steel Town
FROM DAVE TE TO SYRACUSE 15  
nflscouting : 4/18/2017 7:04 pm : link
Eddie Jackson/Sidney Jones
Syracuse15 : 10:32 am : link : reply
Where does he fit post injury? Wonder same thing on Sidney Jones. Seems an Achilles would make it hard to come back to form. I am surprised the WR from Clemson Mike Williams has not dropped with neck surgery in his past. I keep seeing him projected in top 10.
ANSWER
Hey buddy, I was on the road for the medical recheck, so I can't really comment on their situations. Sorry, but hitting the 2018 class this spring, I had to prioritize my trips. Off the top of my head, I don't think Jones can even get back on the practice field until October (initial report), unless something has changed there.
As for Jackson, even before his leg injury, I felt he did not have the recovery burst to handle guys on deep routes as a CB & geez, I have a 4-year old grand son stronger than Jackson. My safeties have to collide with everything but the goal post. I've never been a fan of the average talent (sans Collins & Ha-Ha, so don't bite me) that the schools produced under Saban any way.
FROM DAVE TE TO  
nflscouting : 4/18/2017 7:15 pm : link
Dave you missed my question from page 1, but I'm not mad at yeah!
BigBlueDownTheShore : 12:33 pm : link : reply
I appreciate what you do.

Any insight into Isaiah Ford. Likes/dislikes about his game, and what round do you see him being picked?

Also, what do you believe the draft strategy should be with this years OT crop? Since it is supposed to be one of the weakest classes in a while. Do you think the top rated OT's are being overrated, or actually belong where they are estimated to go?
ANSWER
Sorry, I thought I answered this, but Ford blew it & so did the school. They are one of those teams that kick out "great" 40s & such. That is, until you put a watch on him. Ford runs 4.31, they said. Well, look at his combine & pro day & you wonder if the school ran him in a 30 instead of a 40.
Back in December, EVERYONE on the committee told all three of those young jerks (Ford, Hodges, Jerod Evans) they were not ready for prime time. Ford started the season great, but you never saw that "school speed" on any tapes. Hodges is raw, but could sneak into the end of Day Two thanks to his athleticism, but Ford & Evans are going to wish they stayed another year under Justin Fuente (my opinion - most underrated offensive mind in college not named PJ Fleck - a major rising star if ever there was on - Fleck) for another year. Day 3 for both - tell them to go fishing on the 27-28.

As for draft strategy? I have no idea. Understand, I scout, I research, I do not draft, actually do not care for it, so must pass on the question. Now, if you want to rephrase it to what I see from the OT class 3 years down the road;
BEST-Lamp (wherever they play him)
INJURY RISK-Ramczyk, Dielman, Mike Dunn
MOST OVERRATED-Roderick Johnson
MOST UNDERRATED-Moton
SUPER SLEEPERS-Knappe, Bisnowaty, Max Rich, Perkins-Texas & the kid from Alabama State-Jylan Ware (incredible footwork)
From Dave Te-Some Who Questioned About the Industry  
nflscouting : 4/18/2017 7:32 pm : link
Guys, I understand that several of you have wanted me to help get them into scouting. Unfortunately, not is not my call. The NFL has a strict intern policy and you will need to contact them for info.
From what I have seen since 2008, the day & age of the street scout getting hired by a team is over. I lucked out - 1968 the scouting was still in its infancy. The Senior Bowl is the hiring market, but you need a resume loaded with football.
I know a lot of you say you can scout with the best of them, but there is so much that you need to do and learn, I honestly can not offer advice, as I fear it will crush a dream.
No, I am set with my staff. Our season begins in March and most teams' scout cycles follow suit (spring drills is the first stepping out party).
When the World League, USFL came into view, a lot of those guys moved over to the NFL. Right now, outside the rinky-dink spring league in the Carolinas, the only new league starting up is for college drop-outs that Tom brady's agent is trying to do out west. You might have to research on that but that could be a foot in the door - good luck, but have realistic outcome
I have a question...  
CMicks3110 : 4/18/2017 7:52 pm : link
I know, from reading some of your posts, that you're not a fan combine numbers or pro day numbers as being the end all be all and I get that. But I'm curious, there are a ton of players that have all the athletic gifts in the world that are picked up later in the draft, what is it that separates the really good players from the run of the mill player who possesses the exact same physical traits.

For example, Owa Odighizuwa looks like a beast tested like one, but has had no impact in games whatsoever. He may not be the best example because you can easily point to perhaps his passion for the game. But is it just a lack of technique? Are they not intelligent enough to learn? Do they lack instincts? Is it fearlessness or confidence? I just would be curious, having talked to these players, what really separates them?
Who were some prospects you thought would be turds...  
Milton : 4/18/2017 8:47 pm : link
...but instead became stars?
Noteworthy praise for/reasons to discount any of these prospects?  
uncledave : 4/18/2017 10:55 pm : link
Davon Godchaux DT LSU
Rayshawn Jenkins FS U Miami
Jimmie Gilbert OLB U Colorado
Bryan Cox DE/OLB U FL
Francis Owusu WR Stanford
Jack Lynn LB Minnesota
Jermaine Grace WLB/SS? U Miami
Horace Richardson CB SMU
Maurice Fleming CB WVU
Dave, I'd love to hear what you think of my mock as far as how  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 11:24 pm : link
realistic it is and what you think of the value of the players:

1) WR Corey Davis of Western Michigan. If he's taken, LT Ryan Ramczyk of Wisconsin

2) FS Marcus Williams of Utah or FS Desmond King of Iowa

3) DT Montravius Adams of Auburn

4) RB Jamaal Williams of Brigham Young

5) DE Deatrich Wise Jr. of Arkansas

6) WLB Jalen Reeves-Maybin of Tennessee
Question for the 2018 NFL Draft  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 11:26 pm : link
As of April 19, 2017, how would you rank the following QBs and their potential fit with the Giant:

Sam Darnold

Josh Allen

Josh Rosen

Lamar Jackson

Luke Falk

Mason Rudolph
DAVE TE-TUESDAY NIGHT WRAPUP  
nflscouting : 4/18/2017 11:42 pm : link
Okay guys, got a few questions to answer in the next hour, but if you post after you see this, I will not be answering your questions until tomorrow PM. Up & at 'em early with the Wyoming Cowboys, so I need some beauty rest-peace
RE: DAVE TE-TUESDAY NIGHT WRAPUP  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 11:48 pm : link
In comment 13433717 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Okay guys, got a few questions to answer in the next hour, but if you post after you see this, I will not be answering your questions until tomorrow PM. Up & at 'em early with the Wyoming Cowboys, so I need some beauty rest-peace



Ooooh, fun! Gonna see some Josh Allen and Brian Hill!
FROM DAVE TE TO SMICKS3110  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 12:02 am : link
I have a question...
CMicks3110 : 7:52 pm : link : reply
I know, from reading some of your posts, that you're not a fan combine numbers or pro day numbers as being the end all be all and I get that. But I'm curious, there are a ton of players that have all the athletic gifts in the world that are picked up later in the draft, what is it that separates the really good players from the run of the mill player who possesses the exact same physical traits.

For example, Owa Odighizuwa looks like a beast tested like one, but has had no impact in games whatsoever. He may not be the best example because you can easily point to perhaps his passion for the game. But is it just a lack of technique? Are they not intelligent enough to learn? Do they lack instincts? Is it fearlessness or confidence? I just would be curious, having talked to these players, what really separates them?
ANSWER
The makings of a good scout is that “it” factor. Sure, the first two days of the draft, the entire organization is in consensus, but that third day, or after the draft is done & time to cherry-pick the leftovers, that scout has to go into attack mode. There is going to be a room full of analysts citing their guy. What makes yours so different? Convicted enough, convinced enough, determined to see that guy on your team? Prove it, show me what you got. Ammo brutha, the art of scouting? To me, I paint a picture with my reports, I want that position coach to step into the film room with my charts to see everything my eyes saved him the effort for finding. I then attack the coordinator – hey, your coach really likes this guy, check this out. Going up the food chain well before anyone gets into the war room (generally, once a season ends for an NFL team that contracts with me, I am spilling info to the position coach – he has to be the one happy with that player and I have to make him see what that player fits – production or not. My neck is on the line. If I tout Joe Blow and he blows it, hey, that coach is not going to lend me an ear the next time around. There’s just too many variables and each and every scout has his own witches brew. Me? I’m very analytical. Numbers, production count, but I stay on campuses for days, watching practices. Hey, in Blue Grass Country, you can see that one-year old & know in two years, he could be in the Derby. That’s what I enjoy the most.
Hell, if you ever meet Ike Taylor, the ONLY player to carry Dan Rooney’s body at the funeral the other day, ask him about me & my commitment to him. I am not only proud of the player he became, but the man he was, even as a boy. I discovered him, third string wide receiver with no hands (see receiver in the movie Necessary Roughness) at Louisiana-Lafayette. Oh he was an athletic work of art. A few boxes of doughnuts to his coaches during spring drills got his coach to heed a suggestion by me – coach, let’s see him cover a guy.
Charles Tillman, the main draw back then at ULL was an All-American corner. Ike lines up on the opposite side. Twelve passes his way in practice and not one receiver caught one. For his senior year, 89 targets, just 9 completions, four picks and 15 PBUs. Oh, and my “Crash Gordon,” who never played a down of defense, even in peewee league, finishes second on his team with 91 tackles.
You’d think the kid was Combine bound. Nah, he’s not a player, they tell me. No prob-VHS recorder in hand (hey, this is 12-13 years ago & I’m old school), I take Ike to New Orleans to coach Tom Shaw’s training facility. Shaw is the guy whose rep started after he trained Deion Sanders & heaped with total respect from the league.
On a grass track, Ike takes off in the 40. 4.19 flashes. No freaking way. Run Two 4.17. Hey, I have something here. I put him through all the agilities, take the film & head for Indy. Hey, there’s a few scouting directors at St. Elmo’s, let me treat them to a round. Out comes the credit card, out comes the VHS, out pops everyone’s eyes. 262 NFL personnel show up for ULL’s Pro Day that year. Charles Tillman? Yes, they wanted to see him, but crazy Ike shows up and starts handing out a few dozen t-shirts he had made up for the scouts. Big head and all on the front and “I Like Ike” on the shirt. Kid goes out on the track – 4.22/4.20 that day. He’s a Steeler for life, a class act that can’t be matched and gave this scout one fine moment after another. Still to this day, I do a weekly show with him and reporter John Harris. To me? It’s just me talking to my son.
DAVE TE TO MILTON  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 12:05 am : link
Who were some prospects you thought would be turds...
Milton : 8:47 pm : link : reply
...but instead became stars?
ANSWER
Get back to me after the draft. I'm on the tailend of a six-week road trip for spring drills. I do not carry archive info with me & at this hour of the night, I'm lucky if I recall even my own name! thanks
DAVE TE TO MILTON AGAIN  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 12:07 am : link
Ha! Remembered one, possibly because it was recent - Ha-Ha. Yup, dogged the hell out of that guy the Packers took. Very immature & I was seeing another Trent Richardson/Dee Milliner "you owe me" attitude from him. I guess he got his hienie straightened out in GB, because he's an all-pro level player now.
PS-I did dog the hell out of the other two Bama guys mentioned here, along with Lacy
DAVE TE TO ANAKIM  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 12:10 am : link
Dave, I'd love to hear what you think of my mock as far as how
Anakim : 11:24 pm : link : reply
ANSWER
Sorry, I am not into mocks. Wanna know about a guy, cool. But to me, mocks are like fantasy football - what for? Yeah, I'll get killed for that, but the old timers on BBI know I let my staff do the draft stuff & I handle the scouting. Sure, I might toss out a round on a guy, but whether or who the Giants pick? I take the 3-year approach & see what develops-sorry
DAVE TE TO ANAKIM  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 12:18 am : link
Question for the 2018 NFL Draft
Anakim : 11:26 pm : link : reply
As of April 19, 2017, how would you rank the following QBs and their potential fit with the Giant:
Sam Darnold...Josh Allen...Josh Rosen...Lamar Jackson
Luke Falk...Mason Rudolph
TWO-PART ANSWER
Based on the scheme McAdoo runs, I say Darnold, Allen
Based my pecking order after attending each & everyone's spring;
Sam Darnold (real close to getting only the third perfect score I've ever handed out)
Josh Allen (if Darnold stays in school, Allen is the #1 pick in 2018)
Lamar Jackson (electric type of player, the one who I see as a perfect New Orleans Saint in 2018)
Max Browne-Pittsburgh (my darkhorse. Either Peterman is as good as some of my scouts are saying or he had dirty pictures on his coach to keep Browne second string last year)
Toss between Rudolph & Mayfield-yeah, Mayfield is short, but the guy is almost as exciting to watch as Jackson & small guy be dammed - look at Brees & Wilson
The rest-not in my top 5
RE: RE: DAVE TE TO KELSTO811  
kelsto811 : 4/19/2017 8:31 am : link
In comment 13431802 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431797 nflscouting said:


Quote:


Hey Dave
kelsto811 : 10:31 am : link : reply
Really enjoy your insight. I'm gonna reach here and ask if you know anything about WR Dalton Crossan. He was at our Showcase and showed up, obviously a more likely I drafted guy but curious if you had a chance to review him and your thoughts on his potential with an NFL club? Thanks in advance.
Fox Sports Article - ( New Window )
ANSWER
That freaking RKO reporter stole my line! I told scouts while I was there that this kid is the purr-fect Patriot, like Edelman & Hogan, White & the rest of those motley crew of versatile guys. I was actually there to get a look on the safety, Casey DeAndrade, but Crosson blew me away. He tore Lehigh up for three scores & 184 yards on 24 runs, but boy, that TD catch inside the 10 was sweet! I stood around for the Maine game & he reals off a 35-yard TD scamper that saw him break five tackles. You know Bill – if not drafted, nothing good gets past him out of New England. UNH has not had a talent like him in years. Shame the conference only thought he was worth second team honors.



I coached him in high school. If memory serves me correctly we won a game 73-72 and I think he had 8 TDs. It was one of the craziest games ever. He was just on a different level than everybody else. He was so much quicker than everybody that he just looked like he was jogging half the time. We ran a flex bone offense. It is great to see him having this success. He has a younger brother Trent that was awesome too. Both brothers transferred to the school at the same time. Dalton was a junior and Trent was a freshman. Dalton also started at corner and Trent started at LB. Dalton was a RB but asked the coaches to play QB because all we did was run the ball all the time so he learned to play QB in one offseason and was a monster because he touched the ball every play.


Thanks Dave! Robbie...that's really awesome to hear, I'm sure you will be following his path, as will I. Like I said, he really showed up at the all star event we ran and was getting just as much attention as the highly touted players at the event from the pro scouts. No doubt he gets an opportunity and I wouldn't mind if it was with the Giants as an UDFA
Hi Dave, and thanks for all the great insight you have given!  
joeinct : 4/19/2017 8:40 am : link
I see you have mentioned "3 Year approach" a few times now and also your concentration on Offensive Line. We are past year 3 of Richburg and Pugh and coming on year 3 for Flowers. It would be interesting to hear how you scouted them originally and now that you have benefit of hindsight, how you think where they are now lined up with your original assessment? And if you had lineman rated higher than them who were still available when we picked that have matched your original expectations?

Thanks! Joe
Outside of Myles Garrett  
est1986 : 4/19/2017 9:10 am : link
Leonard Fournette, Solomon Thomas, Malik Hooker or your number one guy Adams (the consensus top guys)... What one or two guys in this entire draft can have the biggest impact or become the best of all the other players in the class, specifically playing for the Giants, even if you dont see them being availible at 23?
Awesome stuff  
SamdaGiantsFan : 4/19/2017 9:55 am : link
to both you and Sy. Coming from someone who has been absolutely enamored by the scouting business since middle school, you two are right up there if not higher than any of my go-to scouts for insights, and for that a massive thanks to both of you for the info and time.

Haven't seen much been asked or said regarding Malik McDowell, Michigan State. My apologies if this was already discussed. I've heard projections all over the map for this kid -- top 15 to 3rd round -- mainly due to character concerns and extreme inconsistency on the field. Inconsistency, character aside, his movement, athleticism, bend, natural strength all seem to point to a pretty high ceiling. Thoughts on McDowell? Thanks again
Great thread here Dave.  
KWALL2 : 4/19/2017 2:56 pm : link
Thanks for all of the time you put into providing this for us.

How about a report on WR Taywan Taylor? He looks like he has a healthy Victor Cruz type game. What are your thoughts on his NFL potential? Where do you see him going in this draft?
Amazing thread, love all these insights!  
AdamBrag : 4/19/2017 5:09 pm : link
Two guys I don't think are getting enough love, Joshua Dobbs and Jonnu Smith. Any thoughts on them?
Dave  
robbieballs2003 : 4/19/2017 7:16 pm : link
These are more general questions based on your other responses. It seems like you have your own scouting business and, if that is true, how does that work? Do teams hire you or your company like an independent contractor or are you still affiliated with a particular team? It sounds like you are independent but I was under the assumption that teams had their own scouting departments.

And how do the Bengals work? If I remember correctly they have the smallest scouting department. They also had a stretch where they were drafting pretty good. Why? Was it a situation where less cooks in the kitchen led to kess fuck ups?

Thanks and I apologize for all of these questions but the more you give us the more we want. Lol.
DAVE TE TO ROBBIE BALLS  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 7:33 pm : link
I will get into scouting in detail after the draft. Since 1973, NFL Scouting is contracted to 26 of the teams in the league and I have a staff in place with scouts assigned to regions.
FROM DAVE TE-Q&A  
nflscouting : 4/19/2017 7:34 pm : link
Hey folks, if I did not get to your questions today, I will do so tomorrow. I have a last minute request to get to Simon Fraser to work out a linebacker, so, off to the flying skies
RE: FROM DAVE TE-Q&A  
Anakim : 4/19/2017 7:48 pm : link
In comment 13434762 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Hey folks, if I did not get to your questions today, I will do so tomorrow. I have a last minute request to get to Simon Fraser to work out a linebacker, so, off to the flying skies



Ohhhhh Canada
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