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Antonio Garcia - OT/Troy

TheGhostofBlueGuy : 4/17/2017 6:02 am
The more I watch Garcia, the more he looks to be in the mix for the GMen in the second round.

His hand usage is really good, meets blockers away from his body but has a tendency to grab, at times. I think that he can be coached up.

Has NFL size, with height and length. Weight wise, his frame appears lean when you watch tape. At 6'6", I think his frame can support extra weight.

Plays right through the whistle, never takes a play off and finishes his blocks.

Plays with excellent balance and great kick step. His pass protection looks the part. Although his run blocking needs work, he is athletic and mean enough to get the job done.

This OT class is suspect to me. Bolles looks maxed out to me at 297 and is 25. Ramcyzk has the hip issue. Moton projects to the right side as an RG or RT. Robinson looks like Flowers, part deux.

Garcia is a work in progress, but he checks off a lot of boxes for me. Check him out here against Clemson last year. This kid held his own nicely.

Antonio Garcia vs Clemson 2016 - ( New Window )
I like Garcia a lot. There's a lot of concern  
Ira : 4/17/2017 6:30 am : link
about his lack of strength and bulk and about his run blocking skills. But he pass protects as well as anyone, which is what you need most from a left tackle.
RE: I like Garcia a lot. There's a lot of concern  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 4/17/2017 6:34 am : link
In comment 13430913 Ira said:
Quote:
about his lack of strength and bulk and about his run blocking skills. But he pass protects as well as anyone, which is what you need most from a left tackle.


Exactly, Ira. Eli needs to be standing up in order for us to win. The bulk and run blocking will come in time. I don't think Garcia makes it out of the second round.
'Robinson looks like Flowers, part deux'  
Milton : 4/17/2017 6:38 am : link
That's a lazy analysis. Robinson is very different than Flowers. And the Giants liked Flowers enough to use the 9th pick in the draft on him, so if they view the two similarly why wouldn't they jump all over the chance to take Robinson with the 23rd pick? They also liked Cordy Glenn, who makes for a better comparison, but Glenn is another who was not the prospect that Robinson is.

I'm not buying into the one-liners that people use to dismiss perfectly legitimate first round prospects at OT simply because they aren't sexy choices. I like Garcia, too, but it's iffy whether or not he lasts until the 55th pick. If the Giants have an OT as BPA when they are on the clock with the 23rd pick they had better pounce because they aren't likely to get another shot at one.
Robinson vs. Flowers  
Archer : 4/17/2017 8:28 am : link
There are similarities in their play both good and bad.
If you watch Alabama games it becomes aparent that Robinson has difficulties with speed edge rushers. His initial set up is quick, but, he looks slow out of his set up. This causes him to reach and he appears off balance.

I was watching vidoes of Derek Barnett when I saw him
play against Robinson.
He beat him handily. In some cases he was untouched. Then I watched Garrett have sucess against Robinson.

These are very good players, but, this is NFL caliber competition.

Robimson was very good when he drove block in running plays.

He looks like a guard, maybe a right tackle. I think that it is a stretch to project Robinson as a left tackle.
RE: Robinson vs. Flowers  
Milton : 4/17/2017 8:47 am : link
In comment 13430947 Archer said:
Quote:
There are similarities in their play both good and bad.
If you watch Alabama games it becomes aparent that Robinson has difficulties with speed edge rushers. His initial set up is quick, but, he looks slow out of his set up. This causes him to reach and he appears off balance.

I was watching vidoes of Derek Barnett when I saw him
play against Robinson.
He beat him handily. In some cases he was untouched. Then I watched Garrett have sucess against Robinson.

These are very good players, but, this is NFL caliber competition.

Robimson was very good when he drove block in running plays.

He looks like a guard, maybe a right tackle. I think that it is a stretch to project Robinson as a left tackle.
If Cordy Glenn can play left tackle so can Cam Robinson. And if it turns out he isn't a Pro Bowl left tackle, he can be a Pro Bowl right tackle. His best football is still ahead of him. Years from now people are going to wonder how it was that he wasn't taken in the top ten.
Myles Garrett vs Cam Robinson - ( New Window )
RE: 'Robinson looks like Flowers, part deux'  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 4/17/2017 8:56 am : link
In comment 13430915 Milton said:
Quote:
That's a lazy analysis. Robinson is very different than Flowers. And the Giants liked Flowers enough to use the 9th pick in the draft on him, so if they view the two similarly why wouldn't they jump all over the chance to take Robinson with the 23rd pick? They also liked Cordy Glenn, who makes for a better comparison, but Glenn is another who was not the prospect that Robinson is.

I'm not buying into the one-liners that people use to dismiss perfectly legitimate first round prospects at OT simply because they aren't sexy choices. I like Garcia, too, but it's iffy whether or not he lasts until the 55th pick. If the Giants have an OT as BPA when they are on the clock with the 23rd pick they had better pounce because they aren't likely to get another shot at one.


Looks like you have a lil man crush on Robinson, Milton. I didn't have time to go into all the things I believe are wrong with all these OTs. Like RR is a one year wonder besides the bad hip. Bolles past with gangs is an issue for me besides the fact that that he is 25 and maxed out weightwise. Moton has motivational issues on top of projecting as a guard.

My'one liners' were synopses.

And just because we reached and fucked up the 9th pick when we took Flowers doesn't mean we should do the same with his virtual clone in Robinson.

Juss sayin'.
Robinson seems like a guy who gets it  
Milton : 4/17/2017 9:00 am : link
Here's a recent interview...
Path to the Draft--Cam Robinson - ( New Window )
Antonio Garcia  
Jay on the Island : 4/17/2017 9:24 am : link
is atop my wish list for round 2. Garcia needs time to get stronger but he has the tools to be an excellent LT in a year.
Have always believed in a bpa tempered by need approach  
Bob in Newburgh : 4/17/2017 9:30 am : link
Giants are unlikely to switch Flowers out from starting LT in 2017.

Fluker and/or Hart, if you are realistic, are unlikely to be beaten out at RT in 2017 by any of the names bandied about.

So personally, I would prefer a non-1st round pick as a one year developmental project.

Those who ignore the tempering of bpa with need approach have only to look at the Jets situation at 3-4 DE where it appears their scouts did a great job identifying bpa, but their management now has a misallocation of scarce resources problem on its hands.


The "one year wonder" rap against Ramczyk is silly.  
yatqb : 4/17/2017 9:45 am : link
If a guy is outstanding in his first year in D1, then you'd expect that he'd just get better and better as the years go by.

The hip is a different story. It was labelled an impingement, so perhaps he just needed the labrum shaved down a bit, and there's no pre-arthritic condition there. The docs will make that call. Again, if it's not a long term issue, it's not a problem.

At the end of the day  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2017 10:00 am : link
I just don't expect an OL to be among the highest rated players on Giants board, the only exception to that might be Lamp, but I think he will be gone.

It's likely IMV that these OL are going to be drafted higher than they deserve, and if the Giants take an OL at 23 it will be a reach for position.

That is what many of us are against, reaching for position. It's not that we think they are all terrible prospects.

Robinson  
WillVAB : 4/17/2017 10:08 am : link
I think he's the best run blocking lineman in the entire draft.

He doesn't move his feet well when pass blocking which causes him to get beat sometimes off the edge or on inside moves.

If he can get better with his feet you've got a pro-bowl caliber LT. If not, I still think you've got a top tier guard and possible RT.
RE: At the end of the day  
Milton : 4/17/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13431045 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
It's likely IMV that these OL are going to be drafted higher than they deserve, and if the Giants take an OL at 23 it will be a reach for position.
Whoever the Giants draft, it won't be a reach.

That being said, I get the impression that the draft flattens out from about #15 to #60 (I think it was Gil Brandt who said there is a top 12 and then it's flat all the way to 55). Which means the Giants will get much better bang for their buck with their 2nd round pick than they do with their 1st, but with their first pick they have a shot at their "personal favorite" or one for whom they have a specific plan.
But for those who think the Giants can wait until round 2 for an OL...  
Milton : 4/17/2017 10:25 am : link
I don't claim to have a crystal ball but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a run on OL between picks #23 and #55 such that Garcia, Dawkins, Moton, and Feeney (and maybe even the Johnsons, too) are all gone.

Also, it's with the 55th pick that the Giants are most likely to get what they consider a steal. Some DB or ER for whom they had a very high grade on that slipped through the cracks.
My ideal top two picks  
Jay on the Island : 4/17/2017 10:39 am : link
1st: LB Jarrad Davis
2nd: OT Antonio Garcia
The Giants need a plan  
Glover : 4/17/2017 12:06 pm : link
to trade up in the second if they want Garcia. T is the teams most glaring weakness, and if they aren't going to address it in the first round (because fans think the talent is not there), they could go down the list of tackles on their board pretty quickly, and I dont think they want to do that.
RE: RE: 'Robinson looks like Flowers, part deux'  
Milton : 4/17/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13430975 TheGhostofBlueGuy said:
Quote:

And just because we reached and fucked up the 9th pick when we took Flowers doesn't mean we should do the same with his virtual clone in Robinson. Juss sayin'.

a) it's yet to be determined that Flowers was a fuck-up. If he steps up his game this year the growing pains will have been just part of the cost of doing business in the planet theory.
b) Either way, Flowers was not a reach. Word was that he was in the team's top five on their draft board. A mistake maybe, but not a reach.
c)I still say that Robinson and Flowers are far from virtual clones.
RE: The Giants need a plan  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/17/2017 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13431276 Glover said:
Quote:
to trade up in the second if they want Garcia. T is the teams most glaring weakness, and if they aren't going to address it in the first round (because fans think the talent is not there), they could go down the list of tackles on their board pretty quickly, and I dont think they want to do that.


I'd be fine with Garcia at 55 or Lamp at 23.

Just don't force it that's all I'm saying.
RE: RE: RE: 'Robinson looks like Flowers, part deux'  
TheGhostofBlueGuy : 4/17/2017 10:54 pm : link
In comment 13431303 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13430975 TheGhostofBlueGuy said:


Quote:



And just because we reached and fucked up the 9th pick when we took Flowers doesn't mean we should do the same with his virtual clone in Robinson. Juss sayin'.


a) it's yet to be determined that Flowers was a fuck-up. If he steps up his game this year the growing pains will have been just part of the cost of doing business in the planet theory.
b) Either way, Flowers was not a reach. Word was that he was in the team's top five on their draft board. A mistake maybe, but not a reach.
c)I still say that Robinson and Flowers are far from virtual clones.


"Either way, Flowers was not a reach. Word was that he was in the team's top five on their draft board. A mistake maybe, but not a reach."

Splittin' hairs much? A reach is a mistake. Hence, the term reach.
I like Garcia at LT in a year or two  
Torrag : 4/17/2017 10:59 pm : link
He's got to come in and work to get stronger but long term I think he'll be a better LT than Flowers is or will become.
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