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NFT: Knicks Chat

DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 9:37 am

-Asked this the other day but who says no to Melo for Bosh's contract and the Heat's pick?

-Andrew Lynch of Fox Sports has a dumb 6 step plan to fixing the Knicks

Fire Phil
Snipe Ujiri (who he claims Dolan has wanted to hire before, which actually was a rare positive thing from Dolan), or Sam Hinkie
Keep Hornacek
Sign Chris Paul and keep Melo

Chris Paul is a first ballot HOFer but just silly. I'd LOVE to dump Phil for Ujiri but that's not happening, at least not this year.

-Berman claims the only reason Jackson hired Hornacek over Rambis was because the younger Hornacek would likely relate to players better... Hornacek is about to be 54, Rambis is 59. This story seems highly, highly unlikely.

-Berman The 18-year-old point guard Frank Ntilikina, who played in the French League for LNB Pro A and is a projected lottery pick, was videotaped working out in the Carmelo Anthony-owned gym in midtown Manhattan. The Knicks scouted the 6-5 prospect in France. Ntilikina should be around if the Knicks pick around sixth or seventh. Draft workouts can begin in late April.
if the head euro scout and gaines are good with frank  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 9:56 am : link
so am i, also he is a jordan brand player that is why he was using the "melo" gym
I'd take that package over retaining Melo  
Deej : 4/17/2017 9:57 am : link
but it's an auction situation -- I'll take the best offer. It will be interesting to see if Melo is widely sought after or if we're just getting Austin Rivers type offers. I could see it going either way.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:00 am : link
still think Boston of the teams we most think of as possible is the best match. Clippers seemingly have absolutely nothing, I still have major doubts the Lakers are going to make a run at Melo, PG13 is likely their target (and I suspect they land him), CLE has nothing. I could come up with an "okay" deal with OKC but they too have a less than ideal pick situation (just our luck). Of course there are other teams (Heat etc) that we may not be considering that could jump into this.
Celtics  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:04 am : link
game last night was essentially the reason why sometimes you have to pull the trigger on a trade. They got killed on the boards and lacked a true scorer other than IT.

Can't necessarily fault Ainge for staying pat if the offers weren't there, but man, how would Jimmy Butler look in green right now?
I view the celtics  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 10:07 am : link
as a very good regular season team but will never win anything with that core, they either better trade for a superstar or hit on their picks which they have not been good at..

Stevens is a hell of a coach for getting that team the 1 seed, they play hard and that gets them a long way in the regular season but you saw yesterday whem thomas is notnin they struggle to score
Would OKC trade Oladipo for Melo?  
Deej : 4/17/2017 10:10 am : link
I think he was a little disappointing there. I think he's never going to show what he can do as a regular offense SG. He's a guy who may thrive in the triangle. Could probably be a triangle PG. Very good defender.

VO and Frenchie could make a studly defensive back court. VO projected at triangle PG could free us up to use the pick on a SF without fearing that we have no guards.

My concern about Oladipo is that he doesnt seem to be getting any better. Shooting has gotten more efficient, but that's probably because of the attention Westbrook demands.
RE: Celtics  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13431053 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
game last night was essentially the reason why sometimes you have to pull the trigger on a trade. They got killed on the boards and lacked a true scorer other than IT.

Can't necessarily fault Ainge for staying pat if the offers weren't there, but man, how would Jimmy Butler look in green right now?


I heard one Boston fan say it best. He was worried that if the bulls started winning games the narrative would shift to that they should've made a trade to win. But he states that the goal isn't to beat Chicago, it is to beat Cleveland. I think Boston is very, very far away from beating Cleveland. I don't think Jimmy butler on his own would accomplish that.
Presti isn't trying to get older to win now  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:17 am : link
I don't know what move he's made recently indicates he would trade one of his top 3 players for someone 10 years older and not much better.

Similarly, Riley isn't dumb enough to think he's a Carmelo Anthony away from beating cleveland. Miami should be trading Whiteside and dragic, not picks.
Oladipo  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:18 am : link
seems like the same player he was when he entered the league. I'd probably do it because I want to dump Melo but I wouldn't be overly enthusiastic regarding him being a difference maker of any kind. I think I'd prefer a deal where we landed Sabonis and Abrines. Maybe you take back shitty Singler and his contract.
I think the Thunder need to be very worried that  
Deej : 4/17/2017 10:19 am : link
Westbrook will opt out after next season, if it looks like his core going forward is Adams, Oladipo, Kanter, and Sabonis, and Abrines (and probably a grossly overpaid Robinson). It's not horrible, but it's not a title team.

Westbrook will be 30 the season after next, and with his game, he has a short window. Really, I could see him shopped next year -- Thunder cant afford to lose him for nothing too (the owner probably wont allow it for $$ reasons). If they're going to retain him, they're going to have to pursue another name player to take the scoring burden off of him. And they cant put together a package for prime stars like Butler.
RE: Presti isn't trying to get older to win now  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:22 am : link
In comment 13431077 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
I don't know what move he's made recently indicates he would trade one of his top 3 players for someone 10 years older and not much better.

Similarly, Riley isn't dumb enough to think he's a Carmelo Anthony away from beating cleveland. Miami should be trading Whiteside and dragic, not picks.


I dunno Arison posted a picture of himself posing with Waiters/Johnson "Miami Heat future looks very bright" implying he's likely going to ante up for the 30 year old Johnson. Seems like they will add to their core vs. "rebuild". Would it really be nuts to see a Melo/Whiteside/Dragic/Johnson/Waiters/Tyler Johnson/Winslow core give a Cavs/Boston team some trouble?
Westbrook being shopped seems more likely  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:29 am : link
than trading a young piece for Melo. If you want a player like Melo why not just sign Rudy Gay to the MLE coming off knee surgery and seeing what he has? Don't think he's much worse than Melo at this point (probably a better defensive player than Melo simply because almost any win player is). Swapping oladipo for Melo is a lateral move that hurts long term prospects regardless of whether oladipo stays or leaves. Melo for kanter + say Grant or Abrines seems a much more plausible deal from OKCs perespective.

Does Melo  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 10:30 am : link
approve a trade to Mia?

I would trade him straight up for the 14th pick and take someone like OG.

*Regardless of  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:30 am : link
Westbrook stays or leaves
RE: Does Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:32 am : link
In comment 13431102 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
approve a trade to Mia?

I would trade him straight up for the 14th pick and take someone like OG.


Good question but if we are "exploring" other teams that might make sense you would think Miami, the weather, the city, how "close" they could potentially be from being a good team... I would guess Melo would be open to it.
Presti  
Deej : 4/17/2017 10:33 am : link
what's his plan then? Just let Westbrook get older (and possibly bolt) while doing what? To what end? If you get Melo it's a second scoring option they sorely lack. Then you try to turn Sabonis/Kanter/Abrines into another Boogie/Melo star-out-of-favor type during the season. Westbrook, Melo, Player X, and Adams is something to work with.

Melo aside, I could see them dumping VO or Kanter this offseason just for financial flexibility. They're already at $111 million and $110 million for the next two seasons -- i.e. capped out. That's losing Taj, Collison, and Roberson this offseason. That owner traded Harden to avoid the tax -- he's gonna pay a tax for those role players? No, and Russ will probably be pissed about losing that depth. Tax will kick in at ~$121 million next year.
Had never given Miami much consideration  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 10:34 am : link
as a landing spot for Melo, but it does make a lot of sense. Man, if we could snare Miami's draft pick, we'd really be cooking on a rebuild. All of a sudden I'd really be pissed at Robert Williams and Miles Bridges for staying in school.
RE: RE: Presti isn't trying to get older to win now  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13431089 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13431077 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


I don't know what move he's made recently indicates he would trade one of his top 3 players for someone 10 years older and not much better.

Similarly, Riley isn't dumb enough to think he's a Carmelo Anthony away from beating cleveland. Miami should be trading Whiteside and dragic, not picks.



I dunno Arison posted a picture of himself posing with Waiters/Johnson "Miami Heat future looks very bright" implying he's likely going to ante up for the 30 year old Johnson. Seems like they will add to their core vs. "rebuild". Would it really be nuts to see a Melo/Whiteside/Dragic/Johnson/Waiters/Tyler Johnson/Winslow core give a Cavs/Boston team some trouble?


My point still stands I don't think Riley (not arison) is dumb enough to execute trading a lottery pick for melo. I mean just the way all of us talk about Melo, if he had 2-3 more years on his deal it would seem we would have to GIVE a first rounder to get him off the team. I'd imagine Riley is pretty pissed that his team missed the playoffs and was slotted #3 in the draft 2 months ago. Is there any worse situation? It seems like the best thing to come out of this is that Miami is loaded with starters/role players that could help playoff teams.
giantsfan  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:35 am : link
agreed, however, Butler is 27, an all star defender and scorer. Just not many guys in the league like him that play at an extremely high level on both ends. I'm shocked the Celtics didn't offer their pick this year, especially since they also have the Nets 2018 pick.
Miami  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 10:35 am : link
would be a really fun team with a Dragic/Melo/Whiteside core.

Miami  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:35 am : link
went 30-11 over it's final 41 games. I understand they aren't Cleveland or SA but Whiteside/Melo/Dragic/James and Tyler Johnson/Winslow/Waiters/Richardson seems like a pretty good situation for Melo if the A+ options like Cleveland/Spurs/LAC aren't going to happen. Miami won 1 less game than the 6 seed, 2 less than the 5 seed.
The more I think  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:37 am : link
..this current Celtics team could really challenge Cleveland in a 7 game series if they had Butler, and they'd get to the conference finals a lot easier as well.
I don't think it's a given  
Metnut : 4/17/2017 10:39 am : link
Chicago would trade Butler to BOS. They might upset Boston this year and wouldn't be a huge dog versus WSH in the 2nd round. Their ownership hasn't shown any appetite to rebuild since the Krause era.
RE: The more I think  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13431123 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
..this current Celtics team could really challenge Cleveland in a 7 game series if they had Butler, and they'd get to the conference finals a lot easier as well.


I suspect the Knicks lurk in the weeds hoping a team that can't land Butler or PG13 settles for the inferior option in Melo.
RE: I don't think it's a given  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13431128 Metnut said:
Quote:
Chicago would trade Butler to BOS. They might upset Boston this year and wouldn't be a huge dog versus WSH in the 2nd round. Their ownership hasn't shown any appetite to rebuild since the Krause era.

That's a good point. Perhaps Butler wasn't going anywhere all along. Looks like a good move now that they are playing well.
Berman  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:42 am : link
According to a source, Porzingis has been disillusioned for a while. He was opposed to the possibility of Kurt Rambis being hired permanently as head coach after last season, believing he wasnt used correctly with the Jackson disciple at the helm. Now Rambis is rising in power as the triangle offense becomes king again.

The Vertical reported some players were fuming at Jacksons triangle plans that perhaps will include another triangle camp similar to last offseason.

Theyre a mess, one agent told The Post.

According to a source, Porzingis is fed up at how strangely the organization is run. Such dysfunction may include Jackson tweeting a derogatory remark about Anthony, his mentor. Porzingis has said repeatedly he doesnt want Anthony traded. Another source said Porzingis doesnt see how the team can be better without him and Anthony takes the pressure off.

Jackson acknowledged the player unrest Friday, saying the changing pick-and-roll defensive strategies became a push and pull between the coaches and players. And in assessing Jeff Hornacek, Jackson said a disconnect at times with this team, and rebelliousness created some of the discord during the year.
Link - ( New Window )
The Bulls  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 10:43 am : link
could also end up being a good trade partner for Melo.

Something like Portis, Valentine, fillers.
RE: Presti  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13431113 Deej said:
Quote:
what's his plan then? Just let Westbrook get older (and possibly bolt) while doing what? To what end? If you get Melo it's a second scoring option they sorely lack. Then you try to turn Sabonis/Kanter/Abrines into another Boogie/Melo star-out-of-favor type during the season. Westbrook, Melo, Player X, and Adams is something to work with.

Melo aside, I could see them dumping VO or Kanter this offseason just for financial flexibility. They're already at $111 million and $110 million for the next two seasons -- i.e. capped out. That's losing Taj, Collison, and Roberson this offseason. That owner traded Harden to avoid the tax -- he's gonna pay a tax for those role players? No, and Russ will probably be pissed about losing that depth. Tax will kick in at ~$121 million next year.


That's why I think trading Russ is realistic. Do you really think deep down that swapping Dipo for Melo makes OKC tangibly better? I wouldn't take that team to beat Utah still, let alone Houston, let alone GS/CLE.

I think kanter is the more likely one to be moved because if we are talking about how OKC matches up against contenders, it's hard seeing him get more than 10-12 minutes a game in a playoff series against one, if that.

Would any Knicks fan really get pissy about Kanter, Grant and Abrines for Melo? Kanter has 2 years tops left, he's an expiring if he opts out.

Abrines and Grant get you 2-sub 25 pieces. You could get a nice young core of Frenchy/Fox, Abrines, Grant, KP, Willy, kanter. Let kanter walk when his contract ends. Grants a stud defender and his 3 point shot has improved. Abrines is a sharpshooter with good size for a 2. I'd signup.
I've always liked Portis' game.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 10:44 am : link
In hindsight, it would've been nice to take him instead of Grant in the draft two years ago.
RE: giantsfan  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13431118 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
agreed, however, Butler is 27, an all star defender and scorer. Just not many guys in the league like him that play at an extremely high level on both ends. I'm shocked the Celtics didn't offer their pick this year, especially since they also have the Nets 2018 pick.


I would. The implications of landing that pick go far beyond just winning now. You get one of those PGs and suddenly you can trade thomas before giving him that 5 year $200M deal entering his 30s. Bradley (IMO bostons best player right now) will be looking at a similar deal and smart won't be cheap at all. Seems like the much better path compared to doubling down on this current roster and getting maxed out financially in the long run.
RE: Miami  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13431119 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
would be a really fun team with a Dragic/Melo/Whiteside core.


They would. So why not chase him when he becomes a FA rather than trading a lottery pick in a deep draft for an expiring 33 year old?
RE: I've always liked Portis' game.  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13431149 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In hindsight, it would've been nice to take him instead of Grant in the draft two years ago.


He's going to very good (offensively anyways). His comparison on draft net was greg Monroe but he looks much more like a wing player with good post skills on offense. He can handle a bit and shoot from range.
RE: RE: giantsfan  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13431155 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13431118 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


agreed, however, Butler is 27, an all star defender and scorer. Just not many guys in the league like him that play at an extremely high level on both ends. I'm shocked the Celtics didn't offer their pick this year, especially since they also have the Nets 2018 pick.



I would. The implications of landing that pick go far beyond just winning now. You get one of those PGs and suddenly you can trade thomas before giving him that 5 year $200M deal entering his 30s. Bradley (IMO bostons best player right now) will be looking at a similar deal and smart won't be cheap at all. Seems like the much better path compared to doubling down on this current roster and getting maxed out financially in the long run.

Good point, I just think that as much as every team likes to say "we want to win a championship" most of the time it's just not realistic, and the Celtics should really just try and get as far as they can, with the current players they have, at the same time staying young and exciting. Grabbing Butler would have made them a legit contender for the finals.

Not getting him insured that they keep their picks, but who knows if the picks pan out? You have a sure thing in Butler or even George who was also in talks.

Again I can't fault Ainge for staying pat, but players like Butler and PG don't just grow on trees, and who knows if the guy they take in the draft this year pans out.
Basically my point is..  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:53 am : link
you think that if the Celtics traded for Butler and the lost in the eastern conference finals - the fans would say "damnit, we didn't make the finals, should have stayed pat on that trade so we cna make the finals in 2-3 years instead"....no, I think they'd be amazingly happy with a team that is consistently good and made a move to go all in.
Chris Paul  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 10:55 am : link
There is no chance CP3 is coming to the Knicks. However, I just listened to Zach Lowe's Podcast with David Thorpe who mentioned that Chris Paul could be headed to the Spurs in the offseason. I know Woj has also mentioned this before. Talk about the rich getting richer....

As for Melo to Miami, I think it makes a lot of sense for both teams. Winslow has fallen a little out of favor in Miami but is a good young player for the Knicks to try to develop.

Jackson has butchered this entire Melo situation. Fans and the media may hate on Carmelo, but he is one of the most well liked and respected players around the league. And on the Knicks. Even if Phil wanted to trade him, he should have been working with him instead of taking shots at him and pissing him off.
Abrines  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 10:56 am : link
seems interesting to me. Seems like a clear 1st round caliber talent (on shooting/size) alone. Shot 38% from 3, he's 6'6 WS/48 .095
I was in line for the bus  
ryanmkeane : 4/17/2017 10:58 am : link
yesterday and heard two relatively young Knicks fans just crushing Phil. Sigh. They really need to hit on their pick for him to get back into the good graces of the fans.
I think ainge's fascination with the pick is  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 10:58 am : link
seeing where it lands. Because I think there's a drastic difference if the pick ends up being #1 vs 4. If it's 4, maybe the trade it. Maybe the scouts talking to ainge are just as high on Fultz as the public is, or even more. I don't think that matters to Chicago as much. Chicago would probably act on a top 5 pick regardless of its standing.

There's also the Gordon Hayward aspect. If all Hayward costs is money you can get a player who is not quite Butler, but just one tier below and keep the pick. Seems like a healthy balance between ensuring a bright future and fielding a competitive team.
My 6 step plan  
Earl the goat : 4/17/2017 11:00 am : link
Keeping Phil. He will have a very good offseason
Trade Melo Get a player (Jordan Clarkson) and most importantly get salary cap relief
Hit a home run in this draft. Phil needs a talent like KP. I'm not opposed
To drafting Dean Collins from Gonzaga
Get Rambus the fuck out of here
Trade Lee and Oquinn for draft picks and more salary relief
Hope that Noah takes medical retirement and Knicks buy him out
Plenty of money for summer of 2018 FAs
Yes I think OKC is a lot better with  
Deej : 4/17/2017 11:03 am : link
Melo over Oladipo. I think Melo's efficiency explodes playing with someone like Westbrook. I also think OKC becomes a quasi-desination for a 3rd player. Whether that is Wade or Blake or someone else I dont know. But I could start convincing myself that they have a path to a title team before Westbrook breaks down. I dont see that path with the current roster.

Yes they should trade Kanter before Oladipo. But I dont know that many in the league would be excited about getting Kanter. There isnt much you can do to hide his defensive movement issues. It's the Okafor issue -- talented offensive big with zero defensive game is unplayable, especially if he isnt an elite rebounder.
You mean Zach Collins?  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 11:04 am : link
With the first round pick?

I'm going to need a 6 step plan to get out of depression if that happens.
Melo could be lethal  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 11:06 am : link
as a wing shooter playing off Dragic's pick and roll game. And defensively, he can survive as a small ball four with Whiteside at the five. It's really a good match from a personnel standpoint. Add in South Beach and the Riley/Spoelstra combo (which blows away Phil/Hornacek/Rambis), and you might be able to sell him.
Zach Collins  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 11:07 am : link
at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.
Melo's  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 11:09 am : link
best position has always been as a stretch 4.

That's the role he played exclusively when the Knicks were a 2 seed. But they went away from it and never came back. No fucking clue why.
Getting cap space for 2018 seems like a bad move  
Deej : 4/17/2017 11:10 am : link
Who is signing here in 2018? If we are rebuilding, use the cap space to take on 1-2 year contracts that that teams want out of.
RE: Yes I think OKC is a lot better with  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13431190 Deej said:
Quote:
Melo over Oladipo. I think Melo's efficiency explodes playing with someone like Westbrook. I also think OKC becomes a quasi-desination for a 3rd player. Whether that is Wade or Blake or someone else I dont know. But I could start convincing myself that they have a path to a title team before Westbrook breaks down. I dont see that path with the current roster.

Yes they should trade Kanter before Oladipo. But I dont know that many in the league would be excited about getting Kanter. There isnt much you can do to hide his defensive movement issues. It's the Okafor issue -- talented offensive big with zero defensive game is unplayable, especially if he isnt an elite rebounder.


It's not about just getting better. HOW much better would they get? They're capped out, not sure how much of a destination they are outside landing veteran min types. For some reason I don't think they remain a top 6 defensive team swapping oladipo for Melo. They're still a first round exit in my eyes.

Not many would get excited about kanter but I'd still do that deal in a heartbeat from a Knicks perspective. Kanter doesn't hurt anymore long term flexibility than keeping Melo would.
RE: Melo's  
Deej : 4/17/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13431205 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
best position has always been as a stretch 4.

That's the role he played exclusively when the Knicks were a 2 seed. But they went away from it and never came back. No fucking clue why.


I've read that Melo really doesnt like playing the 4 defensively.
RE: RE: Yes I think OKC is a lot better with  
Deej : 4/17/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13431208 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13431190 Deej said:


Quote:


Melo over Oladipo. I think Melo's efficiency explodes playing with someone like Westbrook. I also think OKC becomes a quasi-desination for a 3rd player. Whether that is Wade or Blake or someone else I dont know. But I could start convincing myself that they have a path to a title team before Westbrook breaks down. I dont see that path with the current roster.

Yes they should trade Kanter before Oladipo. But I dont know that many in the league would be excited about getting Kanter. There isnt much you can do to hide his defensive movement issues. It's the Okafor issue -- talented offensive big with zero defensive game is unplayable, especially if he isnt an elite rebounder.



It's not about just getting better. HOW much better would they get? They're capped out, not sure how much of a destination they are outside landing veteran min types. For some reason I don't think they remain a top 6 defensive team swapping oladipo for Melo. They're still a first round exit in my eyes.

Not many would get excited about kanter but I'd still do that deal in a heartbeat from a Knicks perspective. Kanter doesn't hurt anymore long term flexibility than keeping Melo would.


I think they would be a lot better. The need a 2nd guy who can make his own buckets. I think Melo's game gets a lot better as the #2 player, and with Adams out there. Is it a title team? Probably needs another star. But in the era of GSW having 2 top 5 players and 4 top 25 players, I think it is hard to have a title or bust mentality.
There's also the ripple effects  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 11:16 am : link
Having oladipo allows you to hide Westbrook on a shitty player on defense to conserve energy. You lose that by trading oladipo. In fact, now you have to find TWO players to hide defensively. I think that negates any offensive efficiency Melo provides (especially if he hates guarding 4s). So now Melo has to guard Durant/Draymond and Kawhi/Aldridge? That's not a winning recipe.
RE: RE: Melo's  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13431210 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13431205 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


best position has always been as a stretch 4.

That's the role he played exclusively when the Knicks were a 2 seed. But they went away from it and never came back. No fucking clue why.



I've read that Melo really doesnt like playing the 4 defensively.


Melo doesn't like defense period. I bet he doesn't like chasing around SFs either.
RE: RE: RE: Melo's  
Deej : 4/17/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13431220 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:

Melo doesn't like defense period. I bet he doesn't like chasing around SFs either.


I think the idea is that he prefers doing a shitty job chasing 3s to bumping against 4s.
Jackson Press Conference  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 11:47 am : link
I know I'm a few days late on this but a few takeways from Phil's disastrous press conference.

- He really likes Derrick Rose and sounds like he wants him back. Unless Rose finds a better situation, I can definitely see him coming back next year.
- Is Phil ever going to admit he was wrong or show any humility? I know the guy has an ego the size of Mars but his failure to learn and admit his mistakes is one of the biggest disappointments about his tenure in NY.
- Rambis isn't going anywhere. Those guys are tight and Rambis' wife is best friends with Jeannie Buss and has worked for the Lakers for a very long time.
- Phil said there were 12 players currently on the roster he can build on. I have no idea who those 12 are. He spoke about Baker like he was the next Pippen. His failure to self scout his own team is one of the biggest red flags about his executive abilities.
- Hornacek is spineless. To allow Jackson to interrupt his practices and essentially coach from the rafters is pathetic. Phil is the same guy who ran Jerry West out of his practices. This setup will never succeed. If Phil wants to run the triangle, then he needs to coach it.

Sorry had to get that off my chest.
On Oladipo  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 12:09 pm : link
I might be a bit biased but I think he's an awful fit in OKC. He's their best 3 point shooter in their starting lineup by FAR. That shouldn't be the case. Spacing issues are expounded by having Gibson and Roberson playing the other wing spots.

The conundrum is that he's at his best with his ball in his hands but how good can your team be with him as the primary ball handler? It's like Waiters with Kyrie. Ideally he's a super 6th man, but his defense is good so you want him on the floor as much as possible.

Even given the poor fit, I don't think OKC should trade him (for Melo at least) but he would be a lot better with the Knicks because

A) Spacing would be better with KP playing one of the big spots

B) He can be the second primary ball handler. He's a solid 2 guard for those 2 PG sets Horny liked to run in Phoenix. You can run side pick and rolls and ideally the other PG would be a good shooter (Frenchy maybe).

There's just no chance of that happening with Westbrook at all.

Oladipo for Melo doesn't make sense straight up but would Melo, Lee, KOQ for Oladipo and Kanter do it? KOQ would be better off for OKC in the playoffs. Lee is a more natural fit off the ball with Westbrook and Melo and is a sharpshooter. Defense isn't much worse than Oladipo probably.

OKC would probably play much slower with those guys, but might give you an optimal mix of spacing without sacrificing defense. You can have Roberson guard the better wing player and lee guard the better guard.
What if OKC wanted Willy to get it done  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 12:15 pm : link
and they'd toss in Grant + Abrines, would you do it?

So Melo, Lee, KOQ, Willy for oladipo, kanter, grant and Abrines?

I like Willy's long term potential more than Kanters, but I don't think enough so where I'd turn down turning 1 promising young player for potentially 3-4.
Chris Brickley  
Deej : 4/17/2017 12:16 pm : link
Knicks Coordinator, Player Development, who is Melo's trainer, as left the organization per his Twitter.
Funny enough he once tweeted this  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 12:19 pm : link
Chris Brickley‏
@Cbrickley603

Follow
More
Carmelo Anthony has on too much stuff, 2 arms sleeves, 2 leg sleeves, 2 rubber bands, a head band; the NBA needs to make a 5 band limit
Oy  
Deej : 4/17/2017 12:20 pm : link
Brickley  
Deej : 4/17/2017 12:24 pm : link
also instagramed video of Frenchy working out (I assume at Melo's gym per above)
Link - ( New Window )
RE: What if OKC wanted Willy to get it done  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13431288 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
and they'd toss in Grant + Abrines, would you do it?

So Melo, Lee, KOQ, Willy for oladipo, kanter, grant and Abrines?

I like Willy's long term potential more than Kanters, but I don't think enough so where I'd turn down turning 1 promising young player for potentially 3-4.


I don't think OKC would do that trade but even so if I'm the Knicks I would pass. Abrines and Grant aren't that intriguing to me and Oladipo is going to get maxed out. And I can't see Kanter/ KP being an effective pairing. Those lineups would be incredibly slow.

I'm not as high on Willy as most, but I'd roll the dice with him to see how he develops.
I guess Phil's 12 guys would be everyone expect Rose and Melo?  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 12:47 pm : link
There's 13 in the following group, so I'm not sure who the odd man out would be.

KP
Willy
Lee
Noah
Thomas
O'Quinn
Holiday
Kuz
Baker
Randle
NDour
Sasha
Plumlee
Man that's an awful roster.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 12:47 pm : link
.
I feel badly for Hornacek. Fired from his last job  
yatqb : 4/17/2017 12:49 pm : link
and with little job security. Being coach in name only. Imagine how fast he'd be gone if he told Phil where to shove the triangle.
RE: Zach Collins  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.


Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.

While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.
RE: RE: Zach Collins  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13431336 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.



Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.

While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.


If the Knicks end up drafting Zach Collins after this dumpster fire of a season, that would be a true disaster.
RE: Jackson Press Conference  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13431256 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I know I'm a few days late on this but a few takeways from Phil's disastrous press conference.

- He really likes Derrick Rose and sounds like he wants him back. Unless Rose finds a better situation, I can definitely see him coming back next year.
- Is Phil ever going to admit he was wrong or show any humility? I know the guy has an ego the size of Mars but his failure to learn and admit his mistakes is one of the biggest disappointments about his tenure in NY.
- Rambis isn't going anywhere. Those guys are tight and Rambis' wife is best friends with Jeannie Buss and has worked for the Lakers for a very long time.
- Phil said there were 12 players currently on the roster he can build on. I have no idea who those 12 are. He spoke about Baker like he was the next Pippen. His failure to self scout his own team is one of the biggest red flags about his executive abilities.
- Hornacek is spineless. To allow Jackson to interrupt his practices and essentially coach from the rafters is pathetic. Phil is the same guy who ran Jerry West out of his practices. This setup will never succeed. If Phil wants to run the triangle, then he needs to coach it.

Sorry had to get that off my chest.


He's "spineless"? It's pretty hard for Jeff Hornacek to puff up his chest and big time a guy with 13 rings out of his practices, even putting aside that Phil is his immediate boss.
RE: RE: Zach Collins  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13431336 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.



Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.

While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.


Collins has almost no shot of being a star. At 6-7 you reach for a potential star. Notice NOBODY has Collins going top 6-7. I can't find a single source that has him going that high. Are they "all" wrong?

DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th

You may say "well 6 to 10-11 isnt a big deal". In the NBA is it. There are clear players considered superior prospects. That's an awful pick at 6 or 7 and that's the kind of "Phil Jackson reach" people are scared will happen. I actually looked for a source that had him top 10 and couldn't find even 1. That doesn't mean the player sucks. It means at 6th or 7th overall he'd be a major reach without the upside associated with a player being picked that high. I'm not letting a great final 4 game impact who the Knicks should take high in the draft, sorry.
RE: I feel badly for Hornacek. Fired from his last job  
Deej : 4/17/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13431330 yatqb said:
Quote:
and with little job security. Being coach in name only. Imagine how fast he'd be gone if he told Phil where to shove the triangle.


He has a guaranteed $15 million contract. Tough to pity the guy for lack of job security.

At this point, I think anyone who takes a job in Knicksland is well aware that you could end up covered in shit on the way out. You take a job with the Knicks for money and because your wife wants to get out of 3rd rate cities. You dont do it to burnish your credentials.
RE: RE: RE: Zach Collins  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13431344 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13431336 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.



Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.

While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.



If the Knicks end up drafting Zach Collins after this dumpster fire of a season, that would be a true disaster.


He was a McDonald's All-American who came off the bench his junior year in high school because 2 other McDonald's All-Americans started over him. One went to Duke and the other is on the Orlando Magic, yet Collins is better than both of them. Maybe you don't want him, but stop acting like he's a scrub.
RE: RE: RE: Zach Collins  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13431350 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


Collins has almost no shot of being a star. At 6-7 you reach for a potential star. Notice NOBODY has Collins going top 6-7. I can't find a single source that has him going that high. Are they "all" wrong?

DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th

You may say "well 6 to 10-11 isnt a big deal". In the NBA is it. There are clear players considered superior prospects. That's an awful pick at 6 or 7 and that's the kind of "Phil Jackson reach" people are scared will happen. I actually looked for a source that had him top 10 and couldn't find even 1. That doesn't mean the player sucks. It means at 6th or 7th overall he'd be a major reach without the upside associated with a player being picked that high. I'm not letting a great final 4 game impact who the Knicks should take high in the draft, sorry.


No one has him going 6-7 because this is an unusually deep draft. Not being considered 6-7 in THIS draft is not an indictment of one's ability. He has almost no shot at being a star? Based on what? That's just ridiculous.

Like I said, the same people who were cool with Robert Williams being the Knicks' pick can't act like this would be a disaster.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Zach Collins  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13431352 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431344 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 13431336 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.



Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.

While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.



If the Knicks end up drafting Zach Collins after this dumpster fire of a season, that would be a true disaster.



He was a McDonald's All-American who came off the bench his junior year in high school because 2 other McDonald's All-Americans started over him. One went to Duke and the other is on the Orlando Magic, yet Collins is better than both of them. Maybe you don't want him, but stop acting like he's a scrub.


Fultz/ Ball/ Jackson/ Tatum/ Smith/ Fox and others were all Mcdonald's All Americans and I'm guessing didn't come off the bench in high school or college.

I'm not saying he's a scrub. But his ceiling is definitely limited compared to the top guys. He's also not a good fit on the Knicks.

If the prize for being one of the worst 6 teams in the NBA is Zach Collins, than yes that is a disaster.
A  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:14 pm : link
deep draft is why it's okay taking a player higher than he's projected to go by "everyone"?

At 6 or 7 the Knicks should have a shot at guys like Isaac, Smith, Fox. Collins has talent but allow me to pass on a thin kid who averaged... 0.4 assists. Not a typo.
What  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:16 pm : link
would make Collins more appealing than say Isaac if we were taking a thin big hoping to improve the defense?
RE: A  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13431361 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
deep draft is why it's okay taking a player higher than he's projected to go by "everyone"?

At 6 or 7 the Knicks should have a shot at guys like Isaac, Smith, Fox. Collins has talent but allow me to pass on a thin kid who averaged... 0.4 assists. Not a typo.


taking collins at 6 or 7 will make me stop watching i think...

that would be absolutely awful
I really  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 1:19 pm : link
don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.
Collins  
RAIN : 4/17/2017 1:23 pm : link
is a top shelf athlete. And yes, he has some serious gaps in his game. Passing up shots in the finals, where he was four feet from the hoop with great position.. he's a project, but I think you get him while trading down.

RE: I really  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13431372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.


Smith concerns me too but I think workouts will really be a big deal this year. I think Fox, Frenchy, Smith could rise/fall (their order) based on how they look (and interview) with the Knicks.
RE: Collins  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13431376 RAIN said:
Quote:
is a top shelf athlete. And yes, he has some serious gaps in his game. Passing up shots in the finals, where he was four feet from the hoop with great position.. he's a project, but I think you get him while trading down.


If you trade down and add an asset I change my tune. Passing on guys like Isaac for him because of some "triangle fit" would really bum me out. In his case his lack of passing ability (at least this season) wouldn't suggest "obvious triangle player" just using him as an example.
Deej, he's emasculated. How can he demand respect  
yatqb : 4/17/2017 1:26 pm : link
and get a team to buy in when he's not their real leader? It's a hopeless job. And money's not everything; all of these guys have more money than they can ever spend. It's about pride and winning, and he can't do that with Phil sabotaging him by stepping on his toes constantly. I'd rather Jackson took the team over himself rather than trying to have a puppet coach. And don't get me started on Rambis.
I'd  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 1:27 pm : link
be more bummed with Isaac than Collins. Isaac has no real fit here. Collins and KP could form a monster interior shotblocking duo.
RE: RE: RE: Zach Collins  
Deej : 4/17/2017 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13431350 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th


I have no opinion on Collins. But it's somewhat absurd that any late lottery prospect is that consistently ranked. Suggests to me a herding mentality -- i.e. several of these sites are ranking guys based on consensus (basically, a soft plagarization of opinion).
I see smith as current year Rose  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 1:31 pm : link
With a 3 point shot and probably a better defender. Which could be a pretty good thing. I think he can be a borderline top 10 PG but I don't think he's a natural PG that elevates his teammates and size can limit his defensive upside. he has the tools but unlike say CP3 he hasn't shown to be a defensive presence yet. You can say anything you want about his coach and injury but that doesn't mean he's automatically going to become CP3 on defense in the NBA. I think fox, smith (and even Frenchy) should be more of a debate than it appears to be. I still might lean smith but I think it's almost a coin flip for me on fox vs smith. I'll give smith tails.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Zach Collins  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13431383 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13431350 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:




DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th



I have no opinion on Collins. But it's somewhat absurd that any late lottery prospect is that consistently ranked. Suggests to me a herding mentality -- i.e. several of these sites are ranking guys based on consensus (basically, a soft plagarization of opinion).


Deej,
If that's the case you would have expected him to "rocket" up these sites after his final 4 performance or at least 1 to "overrate" him based on it and yet I have't seen anything of the sort. Chad Ford in particular (at least claims) to talk to scouts and NBA people and he doesn't have him suddenly crazy high despite being a big who had a big freshman season.
RE: I see smith as current year Rose  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 1:36 pm : link
In comment 13431390 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
With a 3 point shot and probably a better defender. Which could be a pretty good thing. I think he can be a borderline top 10 PG but I don't think he's a natural PG that elevates his teammates and size can limit his defensive upside. he has the tools but unlike say CP3 he hasn't shown to be a defensive presence yet. You can say anything you want about his coach and injury but that doesn't mean he's automatically going to become CP3 on defense in the NBA. I think fox, smith (and even Frenchy) should be more of a debate than it appears to be. I still might lean smith but I think it's almost a coin flip for me on fox vs smith. I'll give smith tails.


Those standards are a little unfair though. CP3 is the best defensive point in the NBA and an unanamious hall of fame point guard. And Rose with a 3 point shot and a betterdefender/ borderiline top 10 PG sounds pretty appealing. I'm higher on Smith than most and could see him becoming an all star down the line.
Collins and KP  
Earl the goat : 4/17/2017 1:38 pm : link
Along with Wily coming off the bench for either one of them forms a nice trio at the 4-5 position for years
I'd be very happy with the pick
I can't invest in this shit show anymore  
djm : 4/17/2017 1:39 pm : link
I've written the knicks off completely. KP will either languish and regress here or leave and flourish. Same applies to this coming draft pick/player. Fuck Dolan. Fuck the triangle. Fuck Jackson. Fuck the knicks. Fuck the finger tip blocked shot on starks in game 6 of the 94 finals. Fuck his 1-20 shooting performance in game 7. Fuck leaving the bench. Fuck the Charles smith memorial. Fuck Reggie miller. And fuck David stern twice.
Just  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:40 pm : link
spoke to a friend of mine who is a writer and has had "info" before and he said a name to watch for with the Knicks is... Tony Bradley. Not at 6 or 7 obviously but he's heard Gaines is smitten.
RE: I really  
Deej : 4/17/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13431372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.


But what if Davis wasnt forced to be the best player on his team? His Hornets teams were good for 41-47 wins with him, Mash, and Edlen Campbell/Jamal Magliore. His GSW teams won 42 and 48 games with him, Monte, and Captain Jack. What if Baron had been the PG for Dirk (read between the lines: KP)? Frankly, you tell me Smith is gonna be as good offensively as Baron was in his 20s, that is pretty tempting at 6/7.
Full  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:41 pm : link
disclosure I know next to nothing about Tony Bradley.
RE: Just  
Earl the goat : 4/17/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13431409 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
spoke to a friend of mine who is a writer and has had "info" before and he said a name to watch for with the Knicks is... Tony Bradley. Not at 6 or 7 obviously but he's heard Gaines is smitten.


Tony Bradley in the second round?
RE: RE: I see smith as current year Rose  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13431399 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13431390 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


With a 3 point shot and probably a better defender. Which could be a pretty good thing. I think he can be a borderline top 10 PG but I don't think he's a natural PG that elevates his teammates and size can limit his defensive upside. he has the tools but unlike say CP3 he hasn't shown to be a defensive presence yet. You can say anything you want about his coach and injury but that doesn't mean he's automatically going to become CP3 on defense in the NBA. I think fox, smith (and even Frenchy) should be more of a debate than it appears to be. I still might lean smith but I think it's almost a coin flip for me on fox vs smith. I'll give smith tails.



Those standards are a little unfair though. CP3 is the best defensive point in the NBA and an unanamious hall of fame point guard. And Rose with a 3 point shot and a betterdefender/ borderiline top 10 PG sounds pretty appealing. I'm higher on Smith than most and could see him becoming an all star down the line.


The CP3 comparison was that he's a peak example of an undersized guard being a great defender. He's the exception and not the rule at all. Also a longer wingspan by a fair amount.

Don't see how Isaac has no business here. He can start off at the 3 and play the 4 with KP at the 5. That duo in your frontcourt probably makes you more versatile on both ends than keeping Willy for 35-40 minutes at the 5.
RE: RE: Just  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13431413 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
In comment 13431409 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


spoke to a friend of mine who is a writer and has had "info" before and he said a name to watch for with the Knicks is... Tony Bradley. Not at 6 or 7 obviously but he's heard Gaines is smitten.



Tony Bradley in the second round?


I was talking to him about the French kid (he confirmed the Knicks really like him) and I said I liked Swanigan as a late pick who will help someone and he said "want a random name I hear the Knicks love? Tony Bradley. Gaines loves him and the stats people love him. They don't think he will sign with an agent though. Maybe a 2018 name to watch".
RE: RE: I really  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13431411 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13431372 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.



But what if Davis wasnt forced to be the best player on his team? His Hornets teams were good for 41-47 wins with him, Mash, and Edlen Campbell/Jamal Magliore. His GSW teams won 42 and 48 games with him, Monte, and Captain Jack. What if Baron had been the PG for Dirk (read between the lines: KP)? Frankly, you tell me Smith is gonna be as good offensively as Baron was in his 20s, that is pretty tempting at 6/7.


I think that's probably his ceiling. But again, that whole crux of PGs, Marbury, Baron, Steve Francis, never won anything. Ball dominant non defense playing PGs don't have a great track record.
FWIW  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 1:49 pm : link
I'm full on board the Frenchie bandwagon. Stating my claim here as bandwagon pioneer.
RE: Full  
Anakim : 4/17/2017 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13431412 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
disclosure I know next to nothing about Tony Bradley.


Good size at 6'10, 240 and a 7'4 wingspan. Was the third ranked C coming out of high school (in front of the aforementioned Zach Collins). Top offensive rebounder.

Certainly sounds like an intriguing project
RE: What  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13431367 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would make Collins more appealing than say Isaac if we were taking a thin big hoping to improve the defense?


Because he's actually a modern day NBA center. Isaac is a 3 who will eventually have to be a 4. Collins needs to put on weight, but he's hardly in a category with guys like Isaac and Ingram. When compared to the 9 players who can reasonably be expected to be picked ahead of him, Collins per 40 minute numbers were the BEST in shot blocking and rebounding. The only 2 guys with more points per 40 were Fultz and Monk. Even Collins' shooting percentages were terrific.

His only weaknesses are he needs to get stronger and his ball-handling. As a Knicks fan, I would draft 9 guys over him, but the idea that drafting Collins would be a "disaster" is asinine and disrespectful.
RE: FWIW  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13431429 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I'm full on board the Frenchie bandwagon. Stating my claim here as bandwagon pioneer.


i am joining you, really intrugyed by frank
RE: RE: FWIW  
Anakim : 4/17/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13431439 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431429 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


I'm full on board the Frenchie bandwagon. Stating my claim here as bandwagon pioneer.



i am joining you, really intrugyed by frank



Now now, before we jump on Frank the French's bandwagon, let's see if we pick in the top 3 or not. Of course this is the Knicks and nothing ever goes our way but maybe Sexy Silver will rig the lottery for us.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 2:01 pm : link
Think a secret Dolan twitter user is fighting with me on twitter. His defense of the Knicks is the monetary value of the franchise lol. Why the F would any fan care about that when it comes to the Knicks?
I think we'll take Jackson if we leap into the top three  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:01 pm : link
and Frank if we stay in 6-8. The Knicks defense is an atrocity and those are the two best defenders in the lottery. They're unselfish on the offensive end as well.
RE: RE: What  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13431433 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431367 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


would make Collins more appealing than say Isaac if we were taking a thin big hoping to improve the defense?



Because he's actually a modern day NBA center. Isaac is a 3 who will eventually have to be a 4. Collins needs to put on weight, but he's hardly in a category with guys like Isaac and Ingram. When compared to the 9 players who can reasonably be expected to be picked ahead of him, Collins per 40 minute numbers were the BEST in shot blocking and rebounding. The only 2 guys with more points per 40 were Fultz and Monk. Even Collins' shooting percentages were terrific.

His only weaknesses are he needs to get stronger and his ball-handling. As a Knicks fan, I would draft 9 guys over him, but the idea that drafting Collins would be a "disaster" is asinine and disrespectful.


Why does Isaac "have" to be a 4? He was a guard in HS, he is more than capable of guarding 3s. He can play the 4, he can also probably play the 5 (better rebounder than KP). I don't see why he "has" to play any position. He's the most complete player projected to go outside the top 5.
KP  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 2:08 pm : link
How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.

Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.
RE: KP  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13431468 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.

Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.


he never said he would trade porzingis or kp was not untouchable..

he basically said kp still has a lot of work to do befor he becomes "the guy" he said he would like him to stop settling for the 3 because he can get thay shot at any time..

he also said they listen to everything on evryone, never named kp specifically
RE: I think we'll take Jackson if we leap into the top three  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13431454 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
and Frank if we stay in 6-8. The Knicks defense is an atrocity and those are the two best defenders in the lottery. They're unselfish on the offensive end as well.


plus frank can shoot the ball and playe either the 2 or 3
Id  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 2:13 pm : link
Love to see what a KP trade that Knicks fans would be okay with would look like lol. Outside of some totally unrealistic deal for a superior young player (KAT) or a clearly lopsided deal where the Knicks get multiple young pieces (Simmons + Embiid) what would it even look like? I'm not too concerned because I just can't imagine it. It's possible Jackson was taking a little shot at KP but more likely he was just being Phil Jackson and "the team matters more than the player" etc
I would never trade KP to Boston (even hypothetically)  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:17 pm : link
but this year's Brooklyn pick and next year's Brooklyn pick would be the package I'd have in mind. I'd need two top five picks, or one top five pick and a young stud player with perennial All-Star potential.
RE: KP  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13431468 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.

Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.


I wouldn't call a player untouchable unless they are absolutely a top 10 player in the league already with no chance of leaving.

Obviously the value I'm expecting would be very high. Not many teams could put together a package I'd for sure consider.

For Boston, both BKN picks would have to be on the table for me and then probably Smart + Euros on top.

If MIN offered Lavine, their pick and Dunn? I'd have to put thought into that one.

Phoenix: This years pick + Chriss and Bender would probably do it for me.

Philly: So many picks, it would be hard to turn down if they were on the table. There are plenty of combinations I'd probably consider.

Probably not many more teams could put together that sort of package, but I'd never say its off the table entirely.
RE: Id  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13431482 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Love to see what a KP trade that Knicks fans would be okay with would look like lol. Outside of some totally unrealistic deal for a superior young player (KAT) or a clearly lopsided deal where the Knicks get multiple young pieces (Simmons + Embiid) what would it even look like? I'm not too concerned because I just can't imagine it. It's possible Jackson was taking a little shot at KP but more likely he was just being Phil Jackson and "the team matters more than the player" etc


if soxers got lakers pick:

their 2 picks this year, okafor and a future pick, i would think about it
RE: I would never trade KP to Boston (even hypothetically)  
Anakim : 4/17/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13431490 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but this year's Brooklyn pick and next year's Brooklyn pick would be the package I'd have in mind. I'd need two top five picks, or one top five pick and a young stud player with perennial All-Star potential.


So we would get two of Doncic, Ayton and Porter Jr.?

That does sound intriguing
Obviously haven't seen much of Frank  
Stu11 : 4/17/2017 2:22 pm : link
but if he checks out(and Euro junkies like Fran Fraschilla rave about him) I'd be fine with him in the 6-8 range obviously unless one of the top 3 talents unexpectedly falls. We've been missing a young PG to build around for decades. In other words if he's another Rubio I'd happily take him there.
Yeah, we'd have two top six picks this year  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:25 pm : link
and probably two top three or four picks next year between ours and Brooklyn's. Hell, I might do that if Boston called on draft night. Josh Jackson and Frank/Fox this year, Doncic and Ayton next year.
RE: RE: Id  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13431495 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431482 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Love to see what a KP trade that Knicks fans would be okay with would look like lol. Outside of some totally unrealistic deal for a superior young player (KAT) or a clearly lopsided deal where the Knicks get multiple young pieces (Simmons + Embiid) what would it even look like? I'm not too concerned because I just can't imagine it. It's possible Jackson was taking a little shot at KP but more likely he was just being Phil Jackson and "the team matters more than the player" etc



if soxers got lakers pick:

their 2 picks this year, okafor and a future pick, i would think about it


Hell, screw Okafor. How would Simmons, Saric, KP AND Embiid/Holmes even work out?

Give me Saric on top of the two picks and I say yes. Maybe throw in Oak for shits and giggles anyways, not much value with him.

A few other ones:

Sacrametno: Skal + their 2 first rounders would get it done for me I think.

Orlando: If they get a top 2-3 pick, that pick + Gordon, their late 1st and Hezonja.

LA: If they get their pick, that pick + Ingram and Randle I'd do.

Any team picking after 8 I don't think could put together a package I'd personally approve of.
RE: RE: RE: FWIW  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13431448 Anakim said:
Quote:




Now now, before we jump on Frank the French's bandwagon, let's see if we pick in the top 3 or not. Of course this is the Knicks and nothing ever goes our way but maybe Sexy Silver will rig the lottery for us.


I will not give up on a top 3 pick until that card says otherwise. I wonder who will sit up there for the Knicks. The chances of Phil doing it are negative infinity to zero. It will probably be Steve Mills (ugh)... I'd let Pat Ewing do it.
RE: RE: KP  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 2:25 pm : link
In comment 13431477 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431468 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.

Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.



he never said he would trade porzingis or kp was not untouchable..

he basically said kp still has a lot of work to do befor he becomes "the guy" he said he would like him to stop settling for the 3 because he can get thay shot at any time..

he also said they listen to everything on evryone, never named kp specifically


But in the past Jackson has made it clear that KP was untouchable. Now no one on the team is untouchable. He definitely meant what he said. And to be proud of him for not shooting a 3 in a game is just another of many examples of why Phil is a terrible executive.

A trade I would be okay with? I'll ignore the older established stars ( Lebron, Durant, Curry etc.) KAT and Giannis I would do immediately. Davis and Jokic I would most likely do.

Jimmy Butler straight up? I love Butler but probably not.
What about both of Boston's Brooklyn picks? That's a hard no from me. I think KP would go number 1 in this draft.

KP isn't one of the best players in the league yet, but his trade value may be top 10-15 in the league.
Jayson Tatum seems destined  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:26 pm : link
to fade into oblivion in Orlando.
what if lakers came to you after lottery  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 2:27 pm : link
their pick this year, russell, ingram and deng for melo and kp

you do it?
If only Philly had just taken KP over Okafor...  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:27 pm : link
Simmons
Monk (?)
Saric
KP
Embiid

..and maybe another top five pick from the Lakers this year.
RE: RE: KP  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13431492 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13431468 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.

Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.



I wouldn't call a player untouchable unless they are absolutely a top 10 player in the league already with no chance of leaving.

Obviously the value I'm expecting would be very high. Not many teams could put together a package I'd for sure consider.

For Boston, both BKN picks would have to be on the table for me and then probably Smart + Euros on top.

If MIN offered Lavine, their pick and Dunn? I'd have to put thought into that one.

Phoenix: This years pick + Chriss and Bender would probably do it for me.

Philly: So many picks, it would be hard to turn down if they were on the table. There are plenty of combinations I'd probably consider.

Probably not many more teams could put together that sort of package, but I'd never say its off the table entirely.


Very surpised to hear you would take those Minny and Phoenix packages. I would hang up the phone for those offers.
Doncic  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 2:28 pm : link
is going to be polarizing. He's not a top tier pure athlete but his "other" stuff is pretty damn good. He's almost like a "Wayne Gretzky" mold. I think Ayton vs. Doncic is going to be a very interesting debate next year. Doncic sounds pretty damn incredible to me though. Austin Green (an "authority" on european basketball, one of the first people I saw talking up Willy) has said Doncic is the best euro prospect he's ever seen.
RE: what if lakers came to you after lottery  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13431513 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
their pick this year, russell, ingram and deng for melo and kp

you do it?


I prefer Randle to D-lo but not enough to make that a no for me. I think I would do that.
RE: what if lakers came to you after lottery  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13431513 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
their pick this year, russell, ingram and deng for melo and kp

you do it?


I'd pass unless the Lakers were giving up a top 3 pick (Fultz, Jackson or Ball). If it were Melo and KP for Fultz/Jackson/Ball + Russell and Ingram I think you have to do it.

One of Fultz/Jackson/Ball, whoever the Knicks picked with their own pick, Ingram, Russell and Willy would be a pretty great way to begin a rebuild.
RE: RE: RE: What  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13431462 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:


Why does Isaac "have" to be a 4? He was a guard in HS, he is more than capable of guarding 3s. He can play the 4, he can also probably play the 5 (better rebounder than KP). I don't see why he "has" to play any position. He's the most complete player projected to go outside the top 5.


I like Isaac a lot, so I'm not knocking him in any way. He certainly has the ball-handling skills and defensive ability to be a 3, but I just think he'll eventually outgrow that position as his body matures. However, I don't think he'll ever have the heft to consistently be a 5.
I just don't love those Laker kids.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:33 pm : link
I would trade Melo in a heartbeat for one of them + Deng (to make the money work), but I don't think I'd do business with them on a KP trade. I'd look to Boston or Philly first to deplete their depth a little.
Tyree  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:33 pm : link
Those are ones I'd consider. I'm not as high on those packages as the others (especially the Phoenix one).

I prefer the Minnesota one to Phoenix. I think Lavine could thrive in a James Harden type role. If we are reasonably expecting KP to be a top 10 player in the league, I can see Lavine being a top 20-25 player.

Getting rid of Melo AND KP probably ensures a top 3 pick next year too.
RE: I just don't love those Laker kids.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13431532 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I would trade Melo in a heartbeat for one of them + Deng (to make the money work), but I don't think I'd do business with them on a KP trade. I'd look to Boston or Philly first to deplete their depth a little.


ITA. The only one of these deals I would consider for even a second is a Philly one they probably wouldn't do involving Simmons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13431531 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431462 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:




Why does Isaac "have" to be a 4? He was a guard in HS, he is more than capable of guarding 3s. He can play the 4, he can also probably play the 5 (better rebounder than KP). I don't see why he "has" to play any position. He's the most complete player projected to go outside the top 5.



I like Isaac a lot, so I'm not knocking him in any way. He certainly has the ball-handling skills and defensive ability to be a 3, but I just think he'll eventually outgrow that position as his body matures. However, I don't think he'll ever have the heft to consistently be a 5.


I think Isaac can be molded into a Draymond Green type. Obviously Draymond's strength and physicality are unmatched, but Isaac is a much more natural scorer/shooter and a better athlete. I can see him becoming a #3 option on a contender just based off that. It's hard imagining that for any of the PGs being talked about for the Knicsk.
RE: RE: what if lakers came to you after lottery  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13431526 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13431513 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


their pick this year, russell, ingram and deng for melo and kp

you do it?



I'd pass unless the Lakers were giving up a top 3 pick (Fultz, Jackson or Ball). If it were Melo and KP for Fultz/Jackson/Ball + Russell and Ingram I think you have to do it.

One of Fultz/Jackson/Ball, whoever the Knicks picked with their own pick, Ingram, Russell and Willy would be a pretty great way to begin a rebuild.


Well if the Lakers are giving their first in this draft it only could be a top 3 pick. They lose it to philly if its not.
You can call me a hater  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:38 pm : link
but before his injury I would've traded KP for Simmons no questions asked. I dont think Philly would do it, I still don't think they would.
I'd like to see Simmons play first (just because his game is unusual)  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 2:41 pm : link
but I wouldn't be against it in theory. It's damn near impossible to put together a championship team in the NBA - you have to be open to anything when it comes to getting your hands on as much top end talent as possible.
If Simmons really did grow to 7'  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 2:44 pm : link
you'd have to why he couldn't play the 5 full time and cause havoc for every team in the league.
In  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 2:56 pm : link
all of my years watching the NBA I've never heard Charles Barkley praise a player more than The Greek Freak. He sounded like he wanted to have his baby.
Not going to lie  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 2:58 pm : link
this whole thing with kp has really turned me off, and we can blame the knicks for the losing and phil for this and that bit skipping a meeting and basically not commenting on it is just really immature in my opinion..

this is a guy who is supposed to be the next leader of this franchise and he cant handle a little drama and a losing season? give me a fucking break...

eli manning was being talk about like a bust and being run out of town and he put it behind him and won a superbowl...

i know it is an unpopular opinion but kp really needs to man the fuck up
RE: RE: RE: I really  
Deej : 4/17/2017 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13431423 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13431411 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13431372 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.



But what if Davis wasnt forced to be the best player on his team? His Hornets teams were good for 41-47 wins with him, Mash, and Edlen Campbell/Jamal Magliore. His GSW teams won 42 and 48 games with him, Monte, and Captain Jack. What if Baron had been the PG for Dirk (read between the lines: KP)? Frankly, you tell me Smith is gonna be as good offensively as Baron was in his 20s, that is pretty tempting at 6/7.



I think that's probably his ceiling. But again, that whole crux of PGs, Marbury, Baron, Steve Francis, never won anything. Ball dominant non defense playing PGs don't have a great track record.


Steph Curry. And save me the blog posts trying to argue that Steph is a great defender. He isnt. He did get better though. And if you're talking about guys who are not the best player on their team, Kyrie too.

Bigger picture, I think an underrated story is that Curry aside (and really he's an undersized 2 playing PG), the recent history of the NBA is that titles start with a great wing, not a great PG. Chris Paul cant even get anywhere. It's probably more important to be able to defend the 1 than to have a great PG.

Im not a big NCAA guy. How good/bad is Smith's defense?
Eli's dad also forced  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 3:03 pm : link
his son onto the team he wanted him to go to so I'm not sure that's the best comparison for always being a leader regardless of the circumstance. But yeah, I get your point.
RE: If Simmons really did grow to 7'  
Deej : 4/17/2017 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13431551 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
you'd have to why he couldn't play the 5 full time and cause havoc for every team in the league.


What have I told you about listening to World B. Free?
Here's one  
Carl in CT : 4/17/2017 3:09 pm : link
Towns and Dunn for KP and Knicks 1st?
RE: RE: If Simmons really did grow to 7'  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 3:11 pm : link
In comment 13431582 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13431551 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


you'd have to why he couldn't play the 5 full time and cause havoc for every team in the league.



What have I told you about listening to World B. Free?


I don't remember...was it to keep doing it?
Collins  
Csonka : 4/17/2017 3:11 pm : link
Really wanted a top 4 pick this year. assuming Tatum and Isaac go next, I think I'd like Smith or Collins at #7 to the Knicks. Collins would fit great with Porzingis.

Interested to hear how the workouts go with the Belgium PG.
Franks been sliding down both DX's and Draft Net's boards  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 3:16 pm : link
Outside the top 10. Draft Net changed his comparison from Dennis Schroeder to Dante Exum. I'm not reading into the comp at all, it's just they seem to be 2 completely different types of players, strange shift (yet still Euro smh). George Hill is what I see with Frenchy.

I admittedly don't know much about Collins but I can see the intrigue. Pretty good athlete. Has a lot of similar qualities that made me like Robert Williams a lot. Probably not as athletic but taller/better shooter for sure.
why are you guys even discussing a KP trade?  
djm : 4/17/2017 3:19 pm : link
even hypothetical? Why?

You've all been beaten. Evil has won. The end is nigh.

You don't trade KP. Shame on you for even discussing it.
DX released Fox scouting vids:  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 3:40 pm : link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRieQQH2xMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS11HzYsSPs

He's a beast in transition. Like his defense. His halfcourt game scares me a lot.
RE: why are you guys even discussing a KP trade?  
Deej : 4/17/2017 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13431593 djm said:
Quote:
even hypothetical? Why?

You've all been beaten. Evil has won. The end is nigh.

You don't trade KP. Shame on you for even discussing it.


Totally agree. KP is legitimately a guy who could develop into the #1 guy on a title team. Obviously there is a lot of projection in saying that. But there isnt a LeBron/Shaq/Duncan in the league right now to take over -- a guy who entered the league getting measured for rings. KP has the tools and the attitude to be that type of player. You dont trade that kind of player. You build around him. I mean I guess you could do the implausible and randomly swap KP for someone else's KP (GF, KAT). But to take a package of lesser pieces, even if they're really quality? That to me ignores the fact that the NBA is a star's league. Hardest thing to get is that #1 guy. Steph Curry is worth more than Klay, a high #1 and another piece.
The  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 3:49 pm : link
Knicks aren't trading KP. I think Jackson is terrible and even I don't share that fear. I'm still concerned Rose is brought back (I'd be sick).
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 3:53 pm : link
can already see some of BBI defending keeping Rose. I won't name names but there will be far too many intelligent Knicks fans defending it and it's going to drive me bonkers. I'm not delving back into the Melo vs. Rose stuff but BOTH must go. Rose is awful for a rebuilding team for many reasons.
Around all star  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 3:57 pm : link
I was impartial to whether Rose left or was brought back (at a VERY fair deal, short term) but the latest injury took away neutrality from me on that. Obviously I didn't WANT Rose back, but was more prepping for a scenario where Phil brought him back and I would be OK with it. Not anymore.
RE: I  
Metnut : 4/17/2017 3:58 pm : link
In comment 13431636 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
can already see some of BBI defending keeping Rose. I won't name names but there will be far too many intelligent Knicks fans defending it and it's going to drive me bonkers. I'm not delving back into the Melo vs. Rose stuff but BOTH must go. Rose is awful for a rebuilding team for many reasons.


Rose is probably a spark off the bench (not even a true 6th man) for a contending team. Let him sign with the Clippers and play 10 minutes a game when CP3 needs a rest.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 4:08 pm : link
just have a bad feeling Phil is more open to Rose returning than we believe. Really seemed to talk him up/defend him and spend far too much time discussing him. He may not be Phil's "Plan A" but I think he's easily on his radar and that sucks.
RE: I  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 4:11 pm : link
In comment 13431655 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just have a bad feeling Phil is more open to Rose returning than we believe. Really seemed to talk him up/defend him and spend far too much time discussing him. He may not be Phil's "Plan A" but I think he's easily on his radar and that sucks.


I would go as far to say it sounds like Phil definitely wants him back. I was shocked by the way he spoke about him at the press conference. My only hope is Rose finds a better situation with another team.
TMZ reporting that Melo and LaLa have separated.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 4:18 pm : link
Open up that list of trade partners, Melo! The old ball and chain ain't a factor now.
Woj and Isola are going to blame Phil  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/17/2017 4:19 pm : link
for that too.
RE: I  
Deej : 4/17/2017 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13431655 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just have a bad feeling Phil is more open to Rose returning than we believe. Really seemed to talk him up/defend him and spend far too much time discussing him. He may not be Phil's "Plan A" but I think he's easily on his radar and that sucks.


That is certainly the sense I got from the presser.

Im still not at all convinced that Phil wants a multi-year build. I think Phil would rather have Rose and win a few more games, especially on a short deal, than to just role with the kids.

Frankly, when has Phil ever shown patience for kids? He took over the Bulls after Jordan was already an MVP. He took over the Lakers when they already had Shaq and Kobe was entering year 4. Im blanking on whether Phil ever took a rookie and developed him into a star player (Kukoc doesnt count).
RE: TMZ reporting that Melo and LaLa have separated.  
djm : 4/17/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13431667 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Open up that list of trade partners, Melo! The old ball and chain ain't a factor now.


Leave it to the Knicks to destroy a wonderful marriage!

JK...I think.
Twitter is ruthless:  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 4:24 pm : link
"Wow Melo Bout To Lose The Only Ring He Can Get RT @TMZ: Carmelo and La La Anthony Separated"
RE: TMZ reporting that Melo and LaLa have separated.  
Heisenberg : 4/17/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13431667 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Open up that list of trade partners, Melo! The old ball and chain ain't a factor now.


He's got a kid. He may have LESS flexibility because of this, not more.
Yeah I know, just wishful thinking on my part.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 4:26 pm : link
I doubt this factors in much at all.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 4:26 pm : link
would hate Rose coming back for a myriad of reasons.

1. Either he's getting a large deal from the Knicks where they outbid other teams OR teams are so down on him that the best he can find is a shit deal with the Knicks

2. If the best he can do is a shit deal with the Knicks (presumably 1 year) what incentive does he have to care about helping the kids develop that wasn't there this year? He showed absolutely zero chemistry with KP/Willy and no evidence of it improving as the year went one

3. Over the top injury prone, 4 knee surgeries now

4. Quit on the team

5. If we draft a PG, this is the guy you want as a mentor?

6. Woj reported Rose was furious being benched for Baker. He's going to be okay with a rookie playing over him?

7. Consistently took shots at Hornacek. Say what you will about Melo but he most certainly didn't say anything to make Hornacek look inept, Rose did.

8. Absolutely zero defensive effort, why in the world would that change now?


If the Knicks insist in bringing in a veteran PG then Sergio Rodriguez is the right call. An unselfish mediocre player who has already been a role player (accepting his role) and has a relationship with KP and Willy.
Is Melo anymore likely to leave NY  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 4:26 pm : link
now that he's single?
First Phil and Jeannie, now Melo and LaLa.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 4:27 pm : link
Knicks are failing everywhere.
KG tweet from 2013  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 4:29 pm : link
(how does this stuff not get attention?):

"Me, Melo and Whoever Jordan Crawford's boy is are all Eskimo Brothers. #Word"

I don't know if this is a "smoke -> fire" situation but LaLa has been caught up in quite a few cheating allegations over the last few years.
Also  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 4:29 pm : link
lost in all of the other ridiculous Knicks stuff, if you believe Berman, KP doesn't care for Rambis and yet Phil feels the need to keep this "basketball genius" on the staff. Not exactly a good look when Melo is cursing out (reportedly) Hornacek and Rambis has to be the one "defending" him. People laughed previously regarding the "Filipino league triangle guru" but I would suspect he'd be a better person to have on the staff than Kurt Rambis all things considered.
RE: RE: TMZ reporting that Melo and LaLa have separated.  
Deej : 4/17/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13431680 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13431667 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


Open up that list of trade partners, Melo! The old ball and chain ain't a factor now.



He's got a kid. He may have LESS flexibility because of this, not more.


Yeah, that was my first thought.
I continue to think Derrick Rose  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 4:33 pm : link
has zero chance of returning. I was a bit surprised at Phil's praise, but the crux of Phil's presser was doubling down on the triangle and praising the young guys who bought in and played well down the stretch AFTER Rose and Melo (for the most part) had been shut down. Throw in Charley Rosen saying that Rose and Melo are probably goners, and of course Rose's latest injury. Phil made the Rose trade, so it makes sense he'd downplay how much of a mistake it was when talking to the press.
I miss Donnie Walsh.  
Ace718 : 4/17/2017 4:34 pm : link
He was the only one that got close to fixing the Knicks.

PS
Screw you, Phil. You've done more harm to this team than Isiah Thomas.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 4:35 pm : link
think the separation is anything is likely a net negative for the Knicks. He's very close with his son. Presumably had he been traded to LA etc his son LaLa would have gone with him. If she's living here he may not be willing to go very far.
RE: I  
Deej : 4/17/2017 4:37 pm : link
In comment 13431702 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think the separation is anything is likely a net negative for the Knicks. He's very close with his son. Presumably had he been traded to LA etc his son LaLa would have gone with him. If she's living here he may not be willing to go very far.


Yeah. So now as a fan, I have to hope that she's a demonstrably unfit mother so Melo will get custody even though he's traveling 50+ nights. No, that's going too far.
Were Honey Nut Cheerios involved?  
Anakim : 4/17/2017 4:37 pm : link
.
SAS  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 4:38 pm : link
goes nuts on Phil
Link - ( New Window )
RE: SAS  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 4:47 pm : link
In comment 13431709 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
goes nuts on Phil Link - ( New Window )


he hates phil no matter what he does
Just  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 4:47 pm : link
to be clear, I don't like Phil and even I admit SAS is a moron. I always wonder if behind closed doors he's more normal/intelligent.
RE: I  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13431684 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would hate Rose coming back for a myriad of reasons.

1. Either he's getting a large deal from the Knicks where they outbid other teams OR teams are so down on him that the best he can find is a shit deal with the Knicks

2. If the best he can do is a shit deal with the Knicks (presumably 1 year) what incentive does he have to care about helping the kids develop that wasn't there this year? He showed absolutely zero chemistry with KP/Willy and no evidence of it improving as the year went one

3. Over the top injury prone, 4 knee surgeries now

4. Quit on the team

5. If we draft a PG, this is the guy you want as a mentor?

6. Woj reported Rose was furious being benched for Baker. He's going to be okay with a rookie playing over him?

7. Consistently took shots at Hornacek. Say what you will about Melo but he most certainly didn't say anything to make Hornacek look inept, Rose did.

8. Absolutely zero defensive effort, why in the world would that change now?


If the Knicks insist in bringing in a veteran PG then Sergio Rodriguez is the right call. An unselfish mediocre player who has already been a role player (accepting his role) and has a relationship with KP and Willy.


Agree on all the points- especially the defense aspect. Being awful defensively at the point has killed the Knicks and kills any team defense. There are so many good guards in the league now, its very hard to "hide" Rose on defense. If they resign Rose and reach to draft a guy because he "fits the triangle", I'm done as a Knicks fan for a while.

I  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 5:01 pm : link
continue to believe Derrick Rose's only value is a bench scorer for a good team. Clippers, Cavs, Spurs (though somehow Popp will turn him into a defensive dynamo) etc. Sign him for that role and that price with a strong team around him and I think it will work. Treat him like Jamal Crawford.
Question  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 5:06 pm : link
lets pretend this Chris Paul to the Spurs rumor is actually somehow true... do you make a run at Patty Mills? or at soon to be 29 (despite very low mileage) does he not make sense? I'm thinking the later (as much as I like him).
RE: Question  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 5:14 pm : link
In comment 13431733 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
lets pretend this Chris Paul to the Spurs rumor is actually somehow true... do you make a run at Patty Mills? or at soon to be 29 (despite very low mileage) does he not make sense? I'm thinking the later (as much as I like him).


I'm worried he might not be cheap. To be honest I don't see how he's drastically different from Rose. You replace Rose's scoring at the rim with better perimeter shooting and you have Mills.
How do the Spurs get at CP3's number  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 5:16 pm : link
is't he going to be in the $35-40M a year range? Do they need Parker to retire and Gasol to opt out?
RE: How do the Spurs get at CP3's number  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13431739 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
is't he going to be in the $35-40M a year range? Do they need Parker to retire and Gasol to opt out?


To be clear I'm not buying the rumor at all but the "rumor" going around twitter is Paul would leave huge money on the table to join the Spurs. I don't honestly believe it. It was more about peoples opinion of Mills than anything else. The player on the Spurs I would love to snipe one day is Kyle Anderson. Man he's smooth
RE: Question  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13431733 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
lets pretend this Chris Paul to the Spurs rumor is actually somehow true... do you make a run at Patty Mills? or at soon to be 29 (despite very low mileage) does he not make sense? I'm thinking the later (as much as I like him).


I would be fine with a Patty Mills move. Good shooter, above average defender. Maybe some of the Spurs magic can rub off on the Knicks.

What about Holiday? He's only 26 but a max deal for him is 4 years 120 million. Although not an all star PG, he is an excellent defender and probably all nba defense 2nd team. He would have to come at less than the max for it to make sense for the Knicks. New Orleans also can't afford to lose him because they have no way to replace him. He's clearly a target of Phil though. Pretty obsessive from the rumors.
RE: How do the Spurs get at CP3's number  
TyreeHelmet : 4/17/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13431739 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
is't he going to be in the $35-40M a year range? Do they need Parker to retire and Gasol to opt out?


They could definitely make it work. If Paul wants to be a Spur, they will create the necessary cap room. Their cap is actually in really good shape going forward next few years. They are like the Patriots, good at everything.
Honestly I'd want to see CP3 in SA  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 5:31 pm : link
As for Mills, I'm not sure a 6' foot below average athlete PG would be all that great on defense on the Knicks.

Hard no on Holiday for me. Fan of his, I just don't think he's worth a max. Never healthy.
Our cap space should be used on  
Deej : 4/17/2017 5:41 pm : link
make good contracts that could be traded and taking on bad contracts in exchange for futures. There should be some teams that are willing to give to get cap space or avoid the tax.
RE: Our cap space should be used on  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13431755 Deej said:
Quote:
make good contracts that could be traded and taking on bad contracts in exchange for futures. There should be some teams that are willing to give to get cap space or avoid the tax.


Thinking about it now, giving Noah like a 2 year $50M deal would've been better for this. That way Melo wouldn't be the only "expiring".
I never thought we'd given Noah  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 5:52 pm : link
anything more than a two-year deal. What a colossal failure. I know it won't kill us if we go into rebuilding mode, but still...
Look at how much passion all of us have for the Knicks.  
yatqb : 4/17/2017 6:04 pm : link
And yet for the past 20 years or so the franchise has been mismanaged time and again. Layden, Thomas, Dolan's meddling regarding Melo, now Jackson. You'd think a trained seal could do better than we've had running things. Yet all of us are still hoping against hope for some miracle.

I think we're as far away from being a good team as any team in the league aside from our neighbors in Jersey.
Not so sure  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 6:43 pm : link
I'd still take the Knicks over a bunch of teams (maybe as many as half) solely because of KP.

Some of the lottery teams are worse off (Dallas, Charlotte, Detroit). Maybe Miami too, I don't see their path from "goodness" to "greatness". Indiana may have it rough if PG is serious about leaving. Does anyone envy Atlanta's position?

Maybe I'm pessimistic but I'd rather be a lottery dweller than a top seed pretender with Lebron still apparently in his prime in the East and quite possibly the greatest team in history in the West.

It's a very blunt view, but I don't regret seeing that way. I wouldn't trade KP for Lowry, Derozan and JV because they aren't giving you a real chance at a ring. Just how the NBA is structured. Maybe another dynasty will arise when Lebron is done (GF) but I'd rather have a prime KP cross that bridge in a few years than challenge CLE/GS now. I mean heck, I don't know that I wouldn't classify Cleveland as "pretender" with the Warriors around, and no EC team has a shot at Cleveland.
The game within the game in the NBA today  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 7:22 pm : link
is not to be good now. It's to be good in 4-5 years when Lebron is on the downside, and Curry is approaching his mid 30s, and the Class of 2003 are all retired.
Im  
DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 7:51 pm : link
Not predicting it happens but if everything broke right I'd pick the Bucks as the team to "replace" the Cavs in the East. I know that sounds nuts
One thing to mention about frank  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 8:32 pm : link
he started the last 11 games of his euro league, team went 9 and 2, rrally got better as the season went on..
RE: Im  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13431839 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Not predicting it happens but if everything broke right I'd pick the Bucks as the team to "replace" the Cavs in the East. I know that sounds nuts


I don't think it's nuts but they may need to land a big ticket FA somewhere along the line, and Milwaukee's a tough sell. Not sure Greg Monroe counts.
Rut roh....  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 9:26 pm : link
Melo got another chick pregnant. Good luck with that custody battle.
Custody battle?  
B in ALB : 4/17/2017 9:30 pm : link
You're joking right?
I meant with LaLa.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 9:33 pm : link
.
RE: Rut roh....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 9:34 pm : link
In comment 13431945 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Melo got another chick pregnant. Good luck with that custody battle.


Jesus. He's 32 years old. That's a rookie move.
RE: RE: Im  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 9:38 pm : link
In comment 13431908 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431839 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Not predicting it happens but if everything broke right I'd pick the Bucks as the team to "replace" the Cavs in the East. I know that sounds nuts



I don't think it's nuts but they may need to land a big ticket FA somewhere along the line, and Milwaukee's a tough sell. Not sure Greg Monroe counts.


I don't think they need to. IMO they are the 2nd best team in the east right now, or at least closer than they get credit for. Giannis is T-3 years from being the best player in the league. Middleton will make a few all star teams once the Bucks start getting top-3 seeds. Brogdon may not be an all star but boy the dude is a winner. He's like George Hill. I'll argue Dan on maker being as good as KP but I'd wager he makes an all star team, or gets significant votes for one.

Not even considering Parker. If I were the Bucks, I'd view Parker as a way to dump their bad contracts and get a solid center. I'm not going to pay him whatever he's going to get. I'd attach Hawes, teletovic, Henson, etc. to Parker and turn into brook Lopez or vucevic. I don't think you need some stud center to make the Bucks a contender. Just a 5 that can stretch the floor. The other 4 guys can play defense and rebound.
Layden, Grunwald, Donnie, Isiah, Mills  
PhilSimms15 : 4/17/2017 9:42 pm : link
Guess what they all have in common with Jackson? They too went through the gauntlet of NY Knick media, and none escaped unscathed.

So maybe Jackson sucks. But then so did all these other guys.

It's clear that the real reason that Knicks have been awful for almost 20 years (with a good year or two tossed in there) is the owner and the completely toxic media.

No team in NY gets hammered the way the Knicks do and it is to the determent of the fans, the team, its players, and yes, the general managers.

It is pretty bleak as it is clear the owner is not selling and the media gets too much enjoyment out of trashing the team, to do anything differently.

And yet . . .we Knick fans can't give up. Now with all our picks, at some point, the luck has to turn around and the Knicks will get a generational talent. I hope.
If they hold onto their draft picks they'll fix things.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 9:48 pm : link
They would've fixed things years ago if they held onto their picks. The question is would they be a championship team or a Raptors-like "contender." The former will require some luck.
I hope the Bucks do pull it off.  
bceagle05 : 4/17/2017 9:49 pm : link
They're a lot of fun to watch. Knicks battled them pretty well this season.
RE: I meant with LaLa.  
Anakim : 4/17/2017 9:51 pm : link
In comment 13431951 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
.

Was it Rihanna? - ( New Window )
One thing to think about  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 10:11 pm : link
whem talking about a melo trade to lakers, lakers will not have their pick next year if they keep their pick this year...

they may go for a quick fix to try and get into the playoffs, plus magic said today on the radio lakers well have a star player on their roster...

lakers are not going to go with a slow rebuild
yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Jon in NYC : 4/17/2017 10:14 pm : link
I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.
RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 10:23 pm : link
In comment 13432006 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.


i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..

if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me
Getting Russell  
Phil in LA : 4/17/2017 10:53 pm : link
would be excellent.
By now not only have I lost any faith in Phil turning our pathetic  
Jim in Hoboken : 4/17/2017 11:14 pm : link
franchise around, I am also getting annoyed by his antics. The fans deserve better.

I'd be pretty upset if the Knicks end up with Ntilikina after this disaster of a season. If we don't pick high enough to grab a Jackson, I'd focus on Fox or Smith. All of the good PG's in the league right now except for Paul are shoot-first PG's. To dismiss Fox and Smith because they might dominate the ball too much is silly. We need good backcourt players, period.

If Phil drafts Ntilikina because the Frenchie fits the stupid Triangle philosophy better or because he doesn't like flashy players, I'd go bonkers. I really hope he's not serious about hammering home his philosophy/zen whatever in today's NBA. He'd not only be in way over his head as a GM, he'd also be delusional.
I want Clarkson, Ingram, Russell and a 1st for Melo  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:16 pm : link
Plus Courtney Lee, a 2nd round pick and Oquinn
So if the euro scout or clarence gaines  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:17 pm : link
says frank is the best player on the board and phil takes him, hoe are you gojng to say it is a bad pick?

frank is a good shooter, he is long, a good defender, so what if he doesnt jump out of the gym..

remembwe people killed phil for drafting kp and now people do not give him credit for drafting kp...

how many games have you watched frank? guarantee it is not more than the scouts..
That would be similar to what we gave up to get Melo  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:18 pm : link
Would be an excellent or mediocre trade for both teams
just becauss you know who fox or smith are  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:20 pm : link
doesnt make them better picks
RE: I want Clarkson, Ingram, Russell and a 1st for Melo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 11:22 pm : link
In comment 13432056 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
I want Clarkson, Ingram, Russell and a 1st for Melo



What's your next move after Magic hangs up on you?
Obviously I haven't watched any of Frank's game except for  
Jim in Hoboken : 4/17/2017 11:23 pm : link
highlights. To me his game resembles Schroder's. Since he's longer he may play better defense as well.

Honestly I don't know if I am excited by that.

This Knicks brass is also responsible for Early, Greek Freak's brother, and Grant....
RE: Obviously I haven't watched any of Frank's game except for  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13432061 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
highlights. To me his game resembles Schroder's. Since he's longer he may play better defense as well.

Honestly I don't know if I am excited by that.

This Knicks brass is also responsible for Early, Greek Freak's brother, and Grant....


also responsible for kp and willy, who is a steal of a 2nd round pick..

early and greek freak were both 2nd round picks they were take a chance picks and everyone loved the early pick qhen it happened...

grant everyone loved the move when it happened, didnt work out..

you just called phil a moron if they pick frank and you know nothing about him, knicks have one of the best euro scouts in the game
Well, let's wait to see whom he actually picks first, no sense  
Jim in Hoboken : 4/17/2017 11:32 pm : link
debating what he's going to do. Even the Oracle himself Gaines probably doesn't know yet.

Melo to Miami for Winslow makes sense if all else fails  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:35 pm : link
Or Winslow and a first if possible

Winslow would be a nice fit next to KP for another tank season this year and be part of the plan
RE: Well, let's wait to see whom he actually picks first, no sense  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13432070 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
debating what he's going to do. Even the Oracle himself Gaines probably doesn't know yet.


id suggest going on youtube and watch some of franks full games, because if knicks stay at 6 or 7 he is more than likely going to be the pick..

watch the games towards the end of the season though he started the last 11 games, they went 9 and 2..
Early was a 2nd rd flyer on a guy thought to have maybe some  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 11:35 pm : link
late first round talent. Not sure that really counts here.

Melo for Robin Lopez? Plus a first?  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:36 pm : link
That's another possibility
Wouldn't stake my claim  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 11:43 pm : link
on the French bandwagon like Jon and ny16 just yet, but I've been saying you don't think he's a 1? All of his playmaking skills look like a plus as a 2 guard.

Drafting him wouldn't prevent me from going out and signing a Sergio Rodriguez type or even drafting a PG next year. I'd love to see 2 PG sets with a guy who can actually guard 2s and provide shooting off the ball.
I think Ball and Frank  
Phil in LA : 4/17/2017 11:49 pm : link
are the best options for turning KP and Willy into what they can be. I like Fultz and Dennis, also, but worry about Fox.
RE: RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Deej : 4/18/2017 7:45 am : link
In comment 13432010 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432006 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.



i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..

if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me


Forget Melo for a second. What is the precedent for trading a contract like Deng's? Big money for THREE MORE seasons to a 30+ guy who fell out of the rotation for a bottom 3 team? I cant recall anyone getting out of a contract like that.

Really, getting Deng and Russell is probably the functional equivalent of just paying Russell 23-25 million per for the next three seasons, and having the opportunity to extend him. That's not terrible for a rebuilding team, but trading Melo for that isnt a ton of value IMO. Unless you think Russell is about to make a big leap.
RE: RE: RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 7:48 am : link
In comment 13432150 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13432010 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13432006 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.



i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..

if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me



Forget Melo for a second. What is the precedent for trading a contract like Deng's? Big money for THREE MORE seasons to a 30+ guy who fell out of the rotation for a bottom 3 team? I cant recall anyone getting out of a contract like that.

Really, getting Deng and Russell is probably the functional equivalent of just paying Russell 23-25 million per for the next three seasons, and having the opportunity to extend him. That's not terrible for a rebuilding team, but trading Melo for that isnt a ton of value IMO. Unless you think Russell is about to make a big leap.


Or you're like me and you think Melo's value is shot. Partially due to our GM who shits on him in the public every chance he gets.
I dont like Russell enough to take on Deng...  
Italianju : 4/18/2017 7:58 am : link
that contract is just too horrible. I know capspace isnt what it used to be but i still dont want to suck up so much of it on a Deng type player. Id do it for Ingram (Lakers arent trading him but id do it) or if the lakers sent more then just russell back to us (Zubac, Picks, nance?,clarkson?, etc..) Now i dont think the lakers do that, but thats what id want if we are taking back Deng.

If the only asset we are getting is Russell then id say its just Russell and filler (brewer types) for Melo. Thats a solid trade for both teams, Melo still has value in this league so i dont see why we have to take on maybe the worst contract in the league just to get a guy who has underperformed his first two years in the league.
RE: RE: RE: RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Deej : 4/18/2017 7:59 am : link
In comment 13432151 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:



Or you're like me and you think Melo's value is shot. Partially due to our GM who shits on him in the public every chance he gets.


Melo's value is impaired but it is not negative or close to it. Not in this cap environment. Whereas I think Deng's value is so low that you might need to attach Russell just to trade Deng for no return.
Is Julius Randle directly  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 8:05 am : link
inhibiting the Lakers ability to sign PG in 2018?

If they didn't sign anyone to a multi-year deal this offseason their cap total would be at $60M? What is the cap supposed to be at? $110M being optimistic?

Warranted or not Randle would easily be looking at a max deal I would think. If for no reason other than the Nets or a similar team will give him a max offer sheet. What's his max going to be, $20-25M? I believe PG would cost about $35M. I'd imagine Clarkson is the guy they'd want to try trading first, you could probably find a taker without needing a pick. Can't you fit PG AND Randle without moving Deng/mozgov in that scenario?
Clarkson is interesting...  
Italianju : 4/18/2017 8:15 am : link
its really hard to get a read on him. The lakers minutes/rotation has been all over the place the last 2 years but whenever he has got consistent time he has played well. I wouldnt be thrilled with him as the headliner of a deal, but if the best we could do was Clarkson, Nance, Rockets first, and maybe a future first i wouldnt hate it. Not sure the Lakers would throw in a future first though and id like it a lot less without that, especially with the Rockets pick being so late.
Summer 2018  
Deej : 4/18/2017 8:19 am : link
cap is expected to be 103 million. Was adjusted down. Randle's max would be 26 million, PG 31 million. Those two contracts, Deng, Moz, Russell and Ingram already have you over 103 million. Plus you have cap holds (6 million?), and you lose Nance and Clarkson for no salary coming back, plus there is no room for your 2017 or 2018 #1 pick.

Realistically, no, trading Clarkson isnt enough.
Still cant believe...  
Italianju : 4/18/2017 8:23 am : link
the lakers dumped 35 mill a year into deng/moz for 4 years. What the hell were they thinking. Why sign them for so long. Neither even plays for them and now they will end up dumping some assets just to get rid of those deals at some point.
Ah yes forgot about the pick  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 8:31 am : link
Well they'd only have a pick in one of those years but they have the Rockets pick this year which might add a million or two.

Well if they can't realistically fit Randle and george, I'd try making a play for Julius. I like him better than Russell and especially Clarkson. I think Clarksons best case scenario is becoming lou williams or Eric Gordon, and his 3 point shot isn't anywhere close at this stage. You wonder if he's near his ceiling, will be 25 next season. Not sure id take Clarkson and Deng, I think you'll be able to snag a Clarkson type player in FA in any given year.

You can run some interesting lineups with a frontcourt of Randle and KP. Randle isn't a rim protector but he's a playmaker and is decent as a 1 on 1 defender and a good rebounder for a 4 whereas KP provides the spacing/rim protection.
RE: Wouldn't stake my claim  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13432079 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
on the French bandwagon like Jon and ny16 just yet, but I've been saying you don't think he's a 1? All of his playmaking skills look like a plus as a 2 guard.

Drafting him wouldn't prevent me from going out and signing a Sergio Rodriguez type or even drafting a PG next year. I'd love to see 2 PG sets with a guy who can actually guard 2s and provide shooting off the ball.


i started watchimg full games of franks and it got me on his bandwagon, especially his last 11 games, he just got better..

i was on the mudiay bandwago because he was long and i thought he could be a great defender but needed to work on his jump shot...

frank has the jump shot, he can play multiple positions, just love his upside
Frank's  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 9:18 am : link
also a full year younger than Fox and Smith.
KP  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 9:22 am : link
likely playing for Latvia this summer in the FIBA Eurobasket
RE: KP  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:23 am : link
In comment 13432239 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
likely playing for Latvia this summer in the FIBA Eurobasket


good he should, he can get used to carrying the load
this whole melo and lala thing  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:24 am : link
it makes sense now that melo was so hellbent on trying to stay in new york, he was trying to fix his marriage
The  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 9:27 am : link
Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.
Beer  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 9:29 am : link
says the Knicks prefer KP not play but he said he "absolutely" intends on playing.
RE: Beer  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13432254 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Knicks prefer KP not play but he said he "absolutely" intends on playing.


i dont think any team likes their players playing in fiba, but you have to live with it when drafting an international player, you have to let these guys play
I thought I read somewhere  
Carl in CT : 4/18/2017 9:44 am : link
Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?
RE: The  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13432250 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.


Mean like this kid? He's from Brooklyn. Per draft net:

" 64 scoring guard with great explosiveness Good athlete with tremendous natural body strength ... Impressive combination of power and finesse Very gifted scorer. High level instincts and feel for the game ... Scores well off the dribble or catch ... Creates offense in the half court set ... Can create a scoring opportunity from scratch ... Good ball handling ability ... Doesnt waste dribbles when making a move ... Shoots well, has range out to the NBA three Physical NYC "power" guard ... Likes to use his strength and bully opponents ... Gets to the rim and finishes well with contact ... Draws a lot of fouls Very good in transition Good defender; good strength, lateral speed, and length Plays under control. Strong willed. Doesnt panic or get rattled ... Plays with great confidence. A true competitor Solid court vision and passing ability Strong rebounder for a guard "

6'4, 225. 37% from 3. Game reminds me of Waiters.
Link - ( New Window )
Alkins is 19, projected to go 46th  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 9:50 am : link
.
RE: I thought I read somewhere  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13432275 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?


3 pm on nbatv
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13432277 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13432250 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.



Mean like this kid? He's from Brooklyn. Per draft net:

" 64 scoring guard with great explosiveness Good athlete with tremendous natural body strength ... Impressive combination of power and finesse Very gifted scorer. High level instincts and feel for the game ... Scores well off the dribble or catch ... Creates offense in the half court set ... Can create a scoring opportunity from scratch ... Good ball handling ability ... Doesnt waste dribbles when making a move ... Shoots well, has range out to the NBA three Physical NYC "power" guard ... Likes to use his strength and bully opponents ... Gets to the rim and finishes well with contact ... Draws a lot of fouls Very good in transition Good defender; good strength, lateral speed, and length Plays under control. Strong willed. Doesnt panic or get rattled ... Plays with great confidence. A true competitor Solid court vision and passing ability Strong rebounder for a guard "

6'4, 225. 37% from 3. Game reminds me of Waiters. Link - ( New Window )


Sounds good to me. I really think the quickest way the Knicks will turn around being a joke is getting athletic, willing defenders. That's not to say they will be contenders adding Rodney McGruder or Rawle Alkins types but defensive effort is contagious and willing and hungry defenders can really change the "culture" of a team.


"He gets under your skin, teammate Dion Waiters said. I think sometimes in this league people dont understand that its about how hard you go. Rod, they probably overlook him coming into the game. But you know on that night that hes going to make you work. He doesnt care who you are.

Hes like the heart and soul of our team, Waiters said of McGruder. He goes extremely hard and he guards the best players and he makes them work. Tonight Paul George probably just wasnt up for that or ready for that. Thats just who Rodney is and how he plays. You have to respect that man.
RE: RE: I thought I read somewhere  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13432316 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432275 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?



3 pm on nbatv


If this was the NFL, it would get a 2 hour pre-flip show.
I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
Heisenberg : 4/18/2017 10:31 am : link
into a functional basketball organization.
So we need Chicago To lose to Boston  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 10:38 am : link
To get even a semi-reasonable 2nd rounder right?
It's  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 10:38 am : link
going to be so Knicks when the win the coinflip, and then the Wolves jump into the top 3
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:39 am : link
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?
RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
into a functional basketball organization.


based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too

Vaccaro  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:40 am : link
He had grown tired of New York, but he had really grown weary of the Knicks, and of Madison Square Garden, the corporate cartoon that kept letting him down. Hed had enough.

I want out, Patrick Ewing said.

This was July 1991, and Ewings frustrations had boiled and bubbled far longer than Kristaps Porzingis have. Ewing already had put in six hard years at the Garden, already had won a playoff series, already had initiated what would become a remarkable rivalry with the Bulls. And he already had been turned on by Knicks fans, who famously showered the Garden floor with life-sized posters.

Ewing had tried to get the NBA to void the four remaining years of his contract, he was so fed up with what he saw happening with the Knicks. In his mind, he already had been traded. Now, in a hotel room in Washington, D.C., he hoped to make that abundantly clear to his visitor, a man whose impressive rsum had thus far left Ewing unmoved.

I want you to think about something, Pat Riley told Ewing that day nearly 26 years ago. I want you to close your eyes and think of a championship parade on Broadway and what that would mean to New York City and what that would mean to you.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Melo  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?


Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.
RE: RE: Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13432370 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?



Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.



The source is a moron which is why I even asked. But he makes it sound like it was clearly stated during the presser

"Tommy Dee‏ @ThomasCDee 11m11 minutes ago
More
So many gems 💎 from Phil's press conference. Anyone else pick up Melo has limited ISOs spelled out in his contract? #knicks"
RE: Melo  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?


0% chance of that being real
RE: RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13432366 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


into a functional basketball organization.



based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too


I dont think Phil was all that clear about a youth movement. I think there is a good chance he brings in a vet, Rose or otherwise, to be the #1 option. I didnt hear anything that suggested that Phil was willing to eat a bad year or 3 to come out better on the other side.

I think his plan is this: The Triangle. As an offense and as a way of life. I think he's more than a little nutty when it comes to the Triangle. And Im not one of these people hung up on the Triangle. We suck because we (1) dont defend, (2) dont have the athletes to defense, and (3) had ball stoppers as our 1, 2, and 3 options (yeah, KP could pass more). The lack of ball movement wasnt a Triangle issue -- it was a "this is who Melo and Rose are" issue.
RE: RE: Melo  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13432372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?



0% chance of that being real


And it absolutely wasnt said at the presser
RE: RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
Heisenberg : 4/18/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13432366 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


into a functional basketball organization.



based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too


Heh, yeah, that part is clear. I wasn't just talking about the offseason moves. He's been pretty adept and making changes in the offseason. How does he turn the roster and organization into something that works together and is functional. Right now, from Phil, to coaching, to the players, it's complete dysfunction junction.

My one hope when Phil came was that he could get the entire organization (personnel, players, coaches) on the same page, like the successful NBA teams around the league. He's been a part of that throughout his career. Instead, he's shown that he's a destabilizing force everywhere.
kp needs to grow the fuck up  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:47 am : link
every player has hard seasons, how many just straight up disrespect their employer?

you dont like phil jackson? fine but you were the one who said you wanted to run the triangle more and if it is about carmelo grow up...
RE: RE: RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13432375 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13432366 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


into a functional basketball organization.



based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too




Heh, yeah, that part is clear. I wasn't just talking about the offseason moves. He's been pretty adept and making changes in the offseason. How does he turn the roster and organization into something that works together and is functional. Right now, from Phil, to coaching, to the players, it's complete dysfunction junction.

My one hope when Phil came was that he could get the entire organization (personnel, players, coaches) on the same page, like the successful NBA teams around the league. He's been a part of that throughout his career. Instead, he's shown that he's a destabilizing force everywhere.


I think going younger will help the "culture" if knicks have the exact same record but have their pick and a young team the cukture is going to be completely different..

you will be able to see the future, if he goes vet route again it will be frustrating
Phil will trade Melo  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 10:49 am : link
and then sign Rudy Gay.
Thanks for the confirmation  
Carl in CT : 4/18/2017 10:50 am : link
16 and el.
Top  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:59 am : link
5 ball handlers in the draft (according to one writer)
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Melo  
TyreeHelmet : 4/18/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13432371 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13432370 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?



Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.




The source is a moron which is why I even asked. But he makes it sound like it was clearly stated during the presser

"Tommy Dee‏ @ThomasCDee 11m11 minutes ago
More
So many gems 💎 from Phil's press conference. Anyone else pick up Melo has limited ISOs spelled out in his contract? #knicks"


There isn't a bigger clown out there than Tommy Dee. Same level as incarcerated Bob.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 11:17 am : link
really strange but of my 4 "teams" the Knicks seem to have the highest % of homer fans/bloggers. Not really sure why?
Saveage:  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 11:23 am : link
"Notice separated not divorced. Melo has a no trade clause on his marriage too"
RE: It's  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13432418 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really strange but of my 4 "teams" the Knicks seem to have the highest % of homer fans/bloggers. Not really sure why?


Just conjecture, but the other sports teams have more of a split. Like Yankees/mets split baseball, Giants/Jets fans split football, etc.
More I think about it  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 11:32 am : link
This Knicks season is like Anger Management starring Melo as Adam Sandler and Phil Jackson as Jack Nicholson.
RE: RE: It's  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13432436 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13432418 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


really strange but of my 4 "teams" the Knicks seem to have the highest % of homer fans/bloggers. Not really sure why?



Just conjecture, but the other sports teams have more of a split. Like Yankees/mets split baseball, Giants/Jets fans split football, etc.


Makes sense. I just see 2 groups of people on twitter 1. That somehow love Tommy Dee and subscribe to some weird idea that the Knicks are fine but it's the media that's at fault. Even quasi celebrity John Henson is a "Tommy Dee" guy. and the other group fights with Tommy Dee and hates him lol
Probably  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 11:52 am : link
total BS but there are pictures floating around of the woman who claims Melo knocked her up and she looks just like LaLa (likely bogus pictures etc).
RE: RE: RE: It's  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13432461 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13432436 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13432418 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


really strange but of my 4 "teams" the Knicks seem to have the highest % of homer fans/bloggers. Not really sure why?



Just conjecture, but the other sports teams have more of a split. Like Yankees/mets split baseball, Giants/Jets fans split football, etc.



Makes sense. I just see 2 groups of people on twitter 1. That somehow love Tommy Dee and subscribe to some weird idea that the Knicks are fine but it's the media that's at fault. Even quasi celebrity John Henson is a "Tommy Dee" guy. and the other group fights with Tommy Dee and hates him lol


i hate tommy dee and i am definitely a homer lol
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 11:59 am : link
Kevin Pelton‏ @kpelton 36m36 minutes ago
More
Kevin Pelton Retweeted Casey Holdahl
Sadly, not a coin flip at all. It's a miniature version of the draft lottery with ping-pong balls.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 12:06 pm : link
with shooting touch

Xavier v Arizona
Will the Knicks select Arizona's Lauri Markkanen in the NBA Draft? (Ezra Shaw | Getty Images)
Print Email Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com By Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on April 17, 2017 at 1:00 PM, updated April 17, 2017 at 1:14 PM
If this mock draft comes to fruition, the Knicks would be a nightmare for opposing defenses to handle--regardless of how the Carmelo Anthony saga plays out.

In CBS Sports' latest mock, the Knicks landed Arizona big man Lauri Markkanen with the No. 7 overall pick.

Here's what the mock said about the pick of a player that could pair with Kristaps Porzingis to give New York a pair of big front-court players with three-point range.

Markkanen is a modern-day stretch-4 who shot 42.3 percent from 3-point range this season. It's hard to imagine him slipping outside of the top 10.

The mock's top-10 picks looked like this.

1. Boston Celtics (via Nets): Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington

2. Phoenix Suns: Josh Jackson, SF, Kansas

3. Los Angeles Lakers: Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA

4. Sixers: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, North Carolina State

5. Orlando Magic: Malik Monk, PG, Kentucky

6. Minnesota Timberwolves: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke

7. Knicks: Markkanen

8. Sacramento Kings: Jonathan Isaac, SF, Florida State

9. Dallas Mavericks: De'Aaron Fox, PG, Kentucky

10. Sacramento Kings: Justin Jackson, SF, North Carolina
Link - ( New Window )
Hmmm Justin Jackson 10??  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 12:15 pm : link
Offensively markannen KP would be interesting. Would certainly make Willy somewhat expendable at some point. You'd want a defensive minded center playing some of the time at least.

It would make the offense unstoppable with a solid PG and shooters at the wing. But is it worth it at the expense of a horrible defensive/rebounding team?

Look at the nuggets. They had the most efficient offense in the NBA but look how far that took them. They have solid wing defenders too in harris and Chandler. Much better rebounding that you can ever hope to expect from a KP/markannen tandem.

I'd rather have Isaac at that point. Better rebounder/defender/playmaker at the cost of 2 inches height and some shooting.
Start embracing that French culture boys...don't fight it.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 12:28 pm : link
Libert, galit, fraternit

If they take Frenchie over Issac  
Greg from LI : 4/18/2017 12:31 pm : link
I think that will be the final straw.
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 4/18/2017 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13432524 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
with shooting touch

Xavier v Arizona
Will the Knicks select Arizona's Lauri Markkanen in the NBA Draft? (Ezra Shaw | Getty Images)
Print Email Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com By Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on April 17, 2017 at 1:00 PM, updated April 17, 2017 at 1:14 PM
If this mock draft comes to fruition, the Knicks would be a nightmare for opposing defenses to handle--regardless of how the Carmelo Anthony saga plays out.

In CBS Sports' latest mock, the Knicks landed Arizona big man Lauri Markkanen with the No. 7 overall pick.

Here's what the mock said about the pick of a player that could pair with Kristaps Porzingis to give New York a pair of big front-court players with three-point range.

Markkanen is a modern-day stretch-4 who shot 42.3 percent from 3-point range this season. It's hard to imagine him slipping outside of the top 10.

The mock's top-10 picks looked like this.

1. Boston Celtics (via Nets): Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington

2. Phoenix Suns: Josh Jackson, SF, Kansas

3. Los Angeles Lakers: Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA

4. Sixers: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, North Carolina State

5. Orlando Magic: Malik Monk, PG, Kentucky

6. Minnesota Timberwolves: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke

7. Knicks: Markkanen

8. Sacramento Kings: Jonathan Isaac, SF, Florida State

9. Dallas Mavericks: De'Aaron Fox, PG, Kentucky

10. Sacramento Kings: Justin Jackson, SF, North Carolina Link - ( New Window )


I really don't like a frontcourt of Markannen and KP
For  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 12:36 pm : link
the Knicks I'd be pretty bummed passing on Isaac for Markkanen. At least with Isaac you could conceivably run Isaac/KP/Willy out there together. Markkanen can't guard 3's.
Apparently  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 12:38 pm : link
the Pelicans think Holiday is leaving.
RE: For  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13432577 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the Knicks I'd be pretty bummed passing on Isaac for Markkanen. At least with Isaac you could conceivably run Isaac/KP/Willy out there together. Markkanen can't guard 3's.


Can he even guard 4s? He's a 3 inch taller version of Ryan anderson in my eyes. Comparing him to KP is really off base because he's not nearly as fluid of an athlete or ball handler as KP.

The Ryan Anderson comp isn't a bad thing; Andersons biggest weakness is his size and being 7', markannen I don't think will be as much of a liability. I just don't see him being a cornerstone piece. You put him next to KAT and wonders will happen.
RE: Apparently  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13432582 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the Pelicans think Holiday is leaving.


Oh fuck. Well, hopefully the Knicks are so toxic he'll stay away. Justin seemed pretty happy here though.
Isaac seems to be the type of guy  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 12:42 pm : link
Gaines would fall in love with.
RE: RE: For  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 12:44 pm : link
In comment 13432586 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13432577 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the Knicks I'd be pretty bummed passing on Isaac for Markkanen. At least with Isaac you could conceivably run Isaac/KP/Willy out there together. Markkanen can't guard 3's.



Can he even guard 4s? He's a 3 inch taller version of Ryan anderson in my eyes. Comparing him to KP is really off base because he's not nearly as fluid of an athlete or ball handler as KP.

The Ryan Anderson comp isn't a bad thing; Andersons biggest weakness is his size and being 7', markannen I don't think will be as much of a liability. I just don't see him being a cornerstone piece. You put him next to KAT and wonders will happen.


I really just meant some people on here insist Isaac will end up at the 4. That may or may not be true but it's 100% within the realm of possibility you can run Isaac/KP/Willy out there together. Markannen on the court means one of Willy or KP is sitting.
Dos Holiday's  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 12:47 pm : link
better not be "the plan". No knock on Jrue Holiday (very nice player) but he's not a "great" player and despite only being 27 next season has played a grand total of 206 games since the beginning of the 2013-2014 season. That's 206/328 team games. It's not 1 bad injury, it's consistently being dinged. We should expect him to suddenly be a durable player from 27-32 when he wasn't previously? If he were "great" or the upside were "great" then maybe you roll the dice but giving him a max deal AND giving his brother a big deal (they would be here as a package deal) PASS from me.
RE: Dos Holiday's  
TyreeHelmet : 4/18/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13432598 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
better not be "the plan". No knock on Jrue Holiday (very nice player) but he's not a "great" player and despite only being 27 next season has played a grand total of 206 games since the beginning of the 2013-2014 season. That's 206/328 team games. It's not 1 bad injury, it's consistently being dinged. We should expect him to suddenly be a durable player from 27-32 when he wasn't previously? If he were "great" or the upside were "great" then maybe you roll the dice but giving him a max deal AND giving his brother a big deal (they would be here as a package deal) PASS from me.


I have a feeling like it is the plan. I have heard Phil really likes both Holidays and he definitely fits as a "triangle PG', whatever that even means. If so we are probably looking at 55 million tied up between Holiday brothers and Noah the next 3 years. So Knicks it hurts.
we all know how this is going to go  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 12:54 pm : link
today knicks will win coin toss, then come lottery night minnesota will get into top 3..

july 4th or 5th comes around and we will see rose sign somewhere and we will all be happy, then next day knicks sign holiday to a 100 million dollar deal
I dread that Holiday scenario.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 12:54 pm : link
I'm not sure how determined they are to play together, but where else could they land? Who is clamoring for those two at their respective price tags? Would Philly pay them? Brooklyn? You just know the Knicks will have interest in both.
RE: we all know how this is going to go  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13432614 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
today knicks will win coin toss, then come lottery night minnesota will get into top 3..

july 4th or 5th comes around and we will see rose sign somewhere and we will all be happy, then next day knicks sign holiday to a 100 million dollar deal


Sounds about right but you forgot Justin Jackson as our pick because of the triangle fit.
This is one of the horrors of being a Knicks fan...  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 12:58 pm : link
you wind up rooting for them to make bad trades or draft picks to keep them from making WORSE decisions in free agency. I was glad drafting KP made Greg Monroe less likely. I was rooting for the Rubio trade to go down in order to prevent us from signing Teague/Hill/Holiday to a four-year deal (Rubio only has two years left). Now I'm kinda hoping we draft a PG to avoid that same fate.
RE: RE: we all know how this is going to go  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13432620 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13432614 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


today knicks will win coin toss, then come lottery night minnesota will get into top 3..

july 4th or 5th comes around and we will see rose sign somewhere and we will all be happy, then next day knicks sign holiday to a 100 million dollar deal



Sounds about right but you forgot Justin Jackson as our pick because of the triangle fit.


i am hoping for 1 good thing this off seasons
RE: This is one of the horrors of being a Knicks fan...  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13432622 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
you wind up rooting for them to make bad trades or draft picks to keep them from making WORSE decisions in free agency. I was glad drafting KP made Greg Monroe less likely. I was rooting for the Rubio trade to go down in order to prevent us from signing Teague/Hill/Holiday to a four-year deal (Rubio only has two years left). Now I'm kinda hoping we draft a PG to avoid that same fate.


problem is holiday fots next to most of the point guards in the knicks range..
Phil must realize  
Phil in LA : 4/18/2017 1:01 pm : link
Rose slowed KP's development.
RE: I dread that Holiday scenario.  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13432616 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I'm not sure how determined they are to play together, but where else could they land? Who is clamoring for those two at their respective price tags? Would Philly pay them? Brooklyn? You just know the Knicks will have interest in both.


I don't understand why justin would just go to NO. Probably the ONLY team he'd start for right off the bat. He's a solid player and the Pelicans need shooting in the worst way.
*justin WOULDNT  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:03 pm : link
Go to NO.
Another  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:04 pm : link
gem from Tommy Dee (advocating bringing back Rose) stating he and KP will "figure it out". So an entire training camp, pre-season and regular season wasn't enough time?
pelicans have zero cap space  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 1:05 pm : link
..
I supposed it's possible  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 1:05 pm : link
that Cousins is such a freaking maniac that he makes playing for the Knicks seem like a nice alternative.
What's wrong with Holiday?  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 1:07 pm : link
26, averaged 15 and 7, good 3 pt shooter, good defender.

Only major knock is injury history.
RE: pelicans have zero cap space  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13432640 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


They can't use the MLE?
RE: What's wrong with Holiday?  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13432645 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
26, averaged 15 and 7, good 3 pt shooter, good defender.

Only major knock is injury history.


First of all he's 27 for Knicks purposes, ALWAYS hurt... every season for the past 4 and will get max money. You really see him as a max money player? Where is this path to being really good giving the Holiday brothers huge money?
RE: What's wrong with Holiday?  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:10 pm : link
In comment 13432645 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
26, averaged 15 and 7, good 3 pt shooter, good defender.

Only major knock is injury history.


The whole giving him 4 years $120M to keep the Knicks just out of range of the top lottery picks part of it.
Who  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 1:11 pm : link
is giving him 30 million?

Mike Conley, a significantly better player, got 30 million.

I bet he gets what Noah gets.
I'd slow the roll about  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:12 pm : link
giving the Holiday "brothers" big money. Why is Justin exactly lumped into the "big money" part of the equation?
RE: RE: pelicans have zero cap space  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13432649 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13432640 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



They can't use the MLE?


i mean i guess they could, sign holiday to big deal then sign his brother to mle but thats all they would be able to do
Holiday did not close out the season well at all  
Deej : 4/18/2017 1:13 pm : link
even though he had the best 4/5 combo in the NBA by a healthy margin.
RE: Who  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13432652 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
is giving him 30 million?

Mike Conley, a significantly better player, got 30 million.

I bet he gets what Noah gets.


You are mistaken.

Jeff Teague is expected to get $22-25M a year. Holiday is a substantial step up from Teague. Pelicans will offer him 5 years $150M. You can book that. It's up to Holiday whether he will take that or a max elsewhere.
Markkanen  
Deej : 4/18/2017 1:14 pm : link
I like him a lot as a prospect. But he needs to be a lot better than the alternative to be our pick given KP and Willy being here.
RE: RE: RE: pelicans have zero cap space  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13432654 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432649 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13432640 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



They can't use the MLE?



i mean i guess they could, sign holiday to big deal then sign his brother to mle but thats all they would be able to do


Well what else are they to do? There isn't a clear solution for NO. Trading cousins is their best way out of that mess but good luck with the owner approving that.
Really don't  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 1:15 pm : link
think you're correct. I also don't know how much better Holiday is than Teague.
Jeff Teague just had  
Deej : 4/18/2017 1:16 pm : link
a fantastic season. Real stats and advances stats confirm.
RE: Really don't  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13432661 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
think you're correct. I also don't know how much better Holiday is than Teague.


Maybe not, but he's a few years younger and if the Pelicans don't retain him they can't really replace him because they are damn near capped out as is. So I think Holiday is the most likely candidate to get the 5 year max out of the PG crop.
I bet Justin gets something in the neighborhood of Lance Thomas.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 1:19 pm : link
Relatively speaking it's not big money, but you'd rather find a guy in the second round to fill his role and save that money. We won't do that because our franchise sucks.
The fact that Holiday cant stay healthy  
Deej : 4/18/2017 1:20 pm : link
has to hurt him. However, I think the Pels really have no choice but to offer him a ton, potentially the max. They cant afford to bleed talent.

The Pels are easy to forget, but they're a dynamic guard and the bigs gelling away from being a title contender.
Not  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:20 pm : link
sure why any Knicks fan would gloss over injury issues when a player over 4 seasons averages 51.5 games played. Career .078 WS/48 (with no indication there is upside for much more than that). Rubio (a guy people were split on) for comparisons sake .099 WS/48, Jeff Teague .122, George Hill .149
Wasn't aware of how well Teague finished off the season  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:20 pm : link
He really struggled for the first half.
RE: I'd slow the roll about  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13432653 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
giving the Holiday "brothers" big money. Why is Justin exactly lumped into the "big money" part of the equation?


Presumably if a team (like the Knicks) are sniping Jrue from his existing team it comes with a Justin overpay. Why else would they choose one location over another? Especially the Knicks. You could come up with a narrative where Jrue leaves some money on the table because team X gave Justin the biggest offer.
If Jrue gets the max  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:25 pm : link
he can afford to take justin out to dinner once in a while.
Philly can  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:29 pm : link
afford the holiday brothers.

Draft monk and have Jrue guard 2s.
Just to be clear,  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 1:29 pm : link
I have no interest in Jrue at 4/120.

I would however look at him for 4/72 like Noah got. He's a really talented two way player.
Jon  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:33 pm : link
all due respect but I think you are INSANELY low on what he's going to get. That's roughly half of what max for Holiday would be. While I have doubts he gets max he's going to get paid. I think I read max for him is 172
RE: Just to be clear,  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13432690 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I have no interest in Jrue at 4/120.

I would however look at him for 4/72 like Noah got. He's a really talented two way player.


If Noah's contract is the baseline for evaluating contracts JUSTIN Holiday's agent can run around the league demanding a max for him.
Pelicans  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:36 pm : link
can offer 176, other teams 130. When guys like Solomon Hill get 48 and Mozgov get 64... 72 million for Holiday aint happening.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:38 pm : link
Bazemore 64 , Noah 72, Deng.. Deng got 72, Biyombo got 72, Courtney Lee, Mahinmi got 64

Don't forget Turner and  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 1:39 pm : link
Crabbe.
it  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/18/2017 1:47 pm : link
will be interesting to see how contracts work this year. With the cap going up 20+ mil last year everyone was flush with money to spend. With the increase much smaller this year and the projected increase almost nil for the following year, do contracts re-adjust downward?
Lowe  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 1:52 pm : link
says the Sixers are expected to go "hard" for Holiday.
RE: Lowe  
Deej : 4/18/2017 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13432754 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Sixers are expected to go "hard" for Holiday.


Interesting since they have no idea where they are picking, or how many picks they have in the top 7. 53% chance they get LA's pick, and if they do it is likely 4-5. 38% chance they move into the top 3. And obviously, those are linked -- if PHI moves up, it means the Lakers are more likely to lose the pick.

Philly could easily be looking at Fultz or Ball top 3 and Tatum, Monk, Isaac, Markkanen, Fox, Smith with the 4-5 pick. Hard to believe they have definitive plans before the lotto.
RE: Lowe  
TyreeHelmet : 4/18/2017 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13432754 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Sixers are expected to go "hard" for Holiday.


If things work out right for the Sixers, they could get very good very quickly. Essentially they just need Embiid to be healthy and Simmons to be healthy/ pan out. BIG ifs though.

If they get the Lakers pick, they could also go big game hunting for a Butler or George.

Holiday
Simmons
George or Butler
Saric
Embiid

That's a really good 5 and they could easily have a good bench with Covington, Okafor, Holmes etc.

But don't worry Knicks fans! Phil loves how Ronny Baker fights through screens! And Kuz and Holiday!! Lol
If the Sixers get two top 7 picks  
Deej : 4/18/2017 1:59 pm : link
and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.
RE: Lowe  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13432754 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Sixers are expected to go "hard" for Holiday.


If that happens, why not just go all out and get Jimmy Butler? Especially if they land the Lakers pick. Toss in Okafor, Stuaskas and Anderson, I think Chicago would do that in a heartbeat.

Monk/TJ
Holiday/Luwawu
Butler/Covington
Simmons/Saric
Embiid/Holmes
RE: If the Sixers get two top 7 picks  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13432775 Deej said:
Quote:
and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.


Extra shady given the fact Holiday once played for them + whatever is causing NO to believe he's leaving.
RE: If the Sixers get two top 7 picks  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13432775 Deej said:
Quote:
and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.


I'm not sure...wouldn't you rather take one of the PGs then give Holiday a near-max? They will have to make a decision on Embiid after next season and I don't think they'd let him walk nor do I think they trade him for marginal pieces (Hinkie probably would've though).
RE: RE: If the Sixers get two top 7 picks  
Deej : 4/18/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13432793 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13432775 Deej said:


Quote:


and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.



I'm not sure...wouldn't you rather take one of the PGs then give Holiday a near-max? They will have to make a decision on Embiid after next season and I don't think they'd let him walk nor do I think they trade him for marginal pieces (Hinkie probably would've though).


But my point is that if they pass on a PG with two picks, it means they have some reason to feel assured that Teague or Jrue or Hill is signing there. I.e. tampering.

Otherwise how can they come out of that draft without a PG, merely with the hope that a PG will sign with them. I think they're still at least one offseason away from being a buzzy team for UFAs. Guys need to play, together, for 70+ games first. Embiid and Simmons have combined to miss 297 of 328 games since they were drafted.
I should've replaced "Luwawu" with "holiday" as well  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 2:10 pm : link
If the Sixers land Holiday and Butler, do you choose them over the Bucks if you had to be a fan/owner/GM of one?

How would you rank being all of the "rebuilding" lotto teams for the future? If the Butler/Holiday scenario happens, here is mine:

1.) Philly
2.) Milwaukee
3.) MIN
4.) PHO
5.) NYK
6.) SAC
7.) LAL
8.) Orlando
9.) Dallas
RE: RE: RE: If the Sixers get two top 7 picks  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13432806 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13432793 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13432775 Deej said:


Quote:


and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.



I'm not sure...wouldn't you rather take one of the PGs then give Holiday a near-max? They will have to make a decision on Embiid after next season and I don't think they'd let him walk nor do I think they trade him for marginal pieces (Hinkie probably would've though).



But my point is that if they pass on a PG with two picks, it means they have some reason to feel assured that Teague or Jrue or Hill is signing there. I.e. tampering.

Otherwise how can they come out of that draft without a PG, merely with the hope that a PG will sign with them. I think they're still at least one offseason away from being a buzzy team for UFAs. Guys need to play, together, for 70+ games first. Embiid and Simmons have combined to miss 297 of 328 games since they were drafted.


Oh no I see what you are saying. I was more agreeing with your other point, how can Philly have a set plan for the offseason without knowing how their picks end up?

Adding Holiday and Butler would certainly expedite the winning process. They may not be able to take down Cleveland year 1 together but that's a pretty damn good blueprint for how to do it.

I'm not so sure I don't play Embiid like 15-20 minutes a night off the bench, continuing to rest him on back to backs. Holmes isn't Embiid but I do think he's one of the top young centers in the game still.

Save Embiid for the conference finals, not even the playoffs.
If Frenchie  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 2:26 pm : link
ends up being as good as Holiday I think we'd be stoked.
KP/Kuz/Willy  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 2:33 pm : link
all expected to compete in the FIBA European Championships 8/31-9/17
RE: If Frenchie  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13432857 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
ends up being as good as Holiday I think we'd be stoked.


Would we be? I'm not so sure I would. Not unless we got a good deal to trade out and pick him in the back of the lottery.

Call me greedy but I'd rather gamble on a prospect with perennial all star/all NBA potential. Yes, even picking at 6-7. It is a deep draft. Look back to last year (very shitty draft) the Bucks got Maker at 10. Too early to claim what he'll be but he at least gives you hope. Skal was taken late 1st.

Look at the 2015 draft (more comparable). Turner and Booker were taken #10 or later.

2014: Saric, Lavine, Nurkic and Harris all taken after 10.

2013: McCollum, Giannis and Gobert taken 10 or after.

Etc, etc.

Is Jrue Holiday a "fair" expectation from a top 6-7 pick? Certainly. But it's going to take more than getting about "fair market" value out of these next few drafts to get this franchise on track.

Jrue Holiday paired with Anthony Davis wasn't enough to get the Pelicans "stoked" after all these years. Fair or unfair, I'm going to need a lot more than a Jrue Holiday to get stoked to be quite honest.
It's easy to look back and say it  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 2:54 pm : link
and hard to consider it with this upcoming draft, but more likely than not there is going to be a player taken where the Knicks will pick or later that will become an all-star/borderline all star player. May not even be a player considered as part of the consensus 8.

The Paul Georges, Klay Thompsons, Steph Currys, Kawhi, Butler, Giannis, etc. show up more often than not. It may be unlikely but it's not a stretch that a player of that caliber will be available when the Knicks pick.
Why don't they do the lottery like this?  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:04 pm : link
.
Actually, never mind  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:05 pm : link
It takes too long
Shocker. Shocker.  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:13 pm : link
Wolves won.
Seriously, is anyone surprised? This is the Knicks luck.  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:14 pm : link
THANKS A LOT FOR WINNING MEANINGLESS GAMES, YOU SHITHEADS
Don't have NBA TV  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 3:14 pm : link
but we lost.

Sorry if thats a spoiler.
take xanax and relax  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 3:15 pm : link
..
You assholes. You had to go win meaningless games.  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:16 pm : link
Knicks will pick 7th if the lotto holds. If a team 8th or higher nabs a top 3 pick, Knicks fall to 8th. If 2 teams leap, 9th. 3 teams, 10th.
Well  
Carl in CT : 4/18/2017 3:17 pm : link
We have a 1% less chance of getting #1. If the Wolves get in the top 3 I will be pissed as that would have been us.
RE: You assholes. You had to go win meaningless games.  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13432965 Anakim said:
Quote:
Knicks will pick 7th if the lotto holds. If a team 8th or higher nabs a top 3 pick, Knicks fall to 8th. If 2 teams leap, 9th. 3 teams, 10th.


do you know the odds are less than 3 percent 2 teams leap the knicks let alone 3
Honestly not going to stress  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 3:19 pm : link
my worst fear was ending like 15th coming into the season.
RE: RE: You assholes. You had to go win meaningless games.  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:20 pm : link
In comment 13432970 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432965 Anakim said:


Quote:


Knicks will pick 7th if the lotto holds. If a team 8th or higher nabs a top 3 pick, Knicks fall to 8th. If 2 teams leap, 9th. 3 teams, 10th.



do you know the odds are less than 3 percent 2 teams leap the knicks let alone 3



It's the Knicks. I wouldn't expect anything differently
You're  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 3:22 pm : link
telling me Frenchie turns into 15/8/4 with good shooting splits and strong defense as a 22 year old and you're upset about that?

Come the fuck on.
Who says Frank even reaches us now?  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:25 pm : link
If he's as good as you all say he is, he'll probably be picked before us
I don't blame the Knicks.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 3:25 pm : link
DLo Russell hit a three at the buzzer to beat Minny, and Wiggins missed a three at the buzzer in a loss to the Westbrook-less Thunder on back-to-back nights. Handwriting was on the wall then. Top seven is what I was hoping for all along, but fuck Justin Holiday, Ron Baker and Maurice NDour anyway.
RE: Who says Frank even reaches us now?  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13432990 Anakim said:
Quote:
If he's as good as you all say he is, he'll probably be picked before us


ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there
Ball, Fultz, Jackson, Tatum are the top six locks.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 3:29 pm : link
So one of Fox, Smith or Frenchie will be there, and probably two, maybe all three. Markkanen, Monk and Isaac are all in play from 5-10 too. We're getting a really good prospect.
RE: RE: Who says Frank even reaches us now?  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:29 pm : link
In comment 13432996 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432990 Anakim said:


Quote:


If he's as good as you all say he is, he'll probably be picked before us



ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there


Does Markannen really belong on that list?
Minny's starting to piss me off though.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 3:31 pm : link
Jumped us for Towns, jumped us this year after pulling away a bit in the third quarter of the season, made us look dumb in the Rubio/Rose saga (though we did that to ourselves mostly) and they grabbed fan favorite Tom Thibodeau. They've been trolling us a lot lately. Fuck Minnesota.
RE: Minny's starting to piss me off though.  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13433010 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Jumped us for Towns, jumped us this year after pulling away a bit in the third quarter of the season, made us look dumb in the Rubio/Rose saga (though we did that to ourselves mostly) and they grabbed fan favorite Tom Thibodeau. They've been trolling us a lot lately. Fuck Minnesota.


You forgot they picked two fucking point guards in the lottery, which led to the Warriors taking a PG by the name of Stephen Curry, who wanted to go to the Knicks and was not interested in the Warriors.
Yeah, that 2009 draft performance  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 3:35 pm : link
was the type of ineptitude even the Knicks would be hard pressed to match. Minny's been in the top five of the draft for about 20 years now and has almost nothing to show for it, save for the random Cassell/Spree/KG playoff run.
Markannen  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
Worst case scenario you get a nice trade package for him.

Speaking of which...

Trade down a possibility if NY picks 7-9?

Few possibilities:

Winslow and Miami's pick (14) for 7?

Andre Drummond straight up for the pick?
MIL  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 3:45 pm : link
if Milwaukee doesn't go too far into the playoffs, would you take Jabari Parker and their pick in a trade back? I don't think I would. Neither the Miami deal.

Drummond I would think about... especially if they take like Noah back.
Not that worried  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 3:46 pm : link
about Minny passing us. They won't take a PG and they won't take a SF.

I bet they go Monk or Markennen
Markannen and Isaac  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 3:50 pm : link
seem like two guys MIN would be all over. If Tatum fell I'm not sure they'd pass.
RE: RE: RE: Who says Frank even reaches us now?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13433002 Anakim said:
Quote:

ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there



Does Markannen really belong on that list?


I wouldn't put him there. I was high on Markannen in December/January, but far less so now. He's a terrific shooter who could develop a nice post game too, but he's not good at anything else. No point in putting him next to KP. Collins would be a better fit than Markannen. I'd replace Markannen's name with Tatum.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Who says Frank even reaches us now?  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13433057 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13433002 Anakim said:


Quote:



ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there



Does Markannen really belong on that list?



I wouldn't put him there. I was high on Markannen in December/January, but far less so now. He's a terrific shooter who could develop a nice post game too, but he's not good at anything else. No point in putting him next to KP. Collins would be a better fit than Markannen. I'd replace Markannen's name with Tatum.


thats who i forgot
there are about 10000 things  
djm : 4/18/2017 3:56 pm : link
the Knicks have done wrong the last 20 years or so. Getting on them for "winning meaningless games" is not on the list of 10000. You're being ridiculous.

What was the Knicks record the past month of the season? Ill answer for you. IT was terrible. They lost a shit load of games down the stretch. So did other teams.

Knicks suck and forever will suck but their W/L record and draft opportunity is one of the few things they haven't fucked up lately. They still suck though. Forever and ever.
The frustrating thing is they don't HAVE to suck going forward.  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 4:02 pm : link
They actually have a way out of this. But they'll most likely fuck it up because that's what they do.
What a bullshit  
Phil in LA : 4/18/2017 4:22 pm : link
Little production that was. I was expecting an actual coin toss.
I don't like  
Phil in LA : 4/18/2017 4:24 pm : link
Fox or Monk for the Knicks.
yeah, looks like Fox, Monk or Smith Jr for Knicks.  
Heisenberg : 4/18/2017 4:25 pm : link
..
Prefer  
Phil in LA : 4/18/2017 4:31 pm : link
Frank to those guys.
fox and frank  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 4:40 pm : link
are jst 2 comepletely different players, i would not be mad at either player..

monk is a total wild card, will a team take a chance on him? will the sixers take him top 5?
RE: yeah, looks like Fox, Monk or Smith Jr for Knicks.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13433108 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
..


I'd put Monk last among those three, but I'd be happy with any of those guys. I think Smith is going to be very, very good.
Grayson  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 4:42 pm : link
Allen staying at Duke.
Fox  
Phil in LA : 4/18/2017 5:28 pm : link
Would give us a third young player who needs major strength work. He's not a floor general nor plus defender like Frank. Monk is smaller than the classic super 2's that have succeeded in the triangle. And I don't think he's a one.
Raise your hand if you wanted Mudiay or Okafor  
Deej : 4/18/2017 5:46 pm : link
[Deej raises hand] and then consider how hard you want to dig your heels in on relatively interchangable prospects. There is probably a top 3-4 (Tatum) and then a group of pick'ems. At 7 you'll still have a choice among 2-3 of them unless two guys drop out due to medicals/second looks in the scouting. Plus there will be helium guys.
RE: Fox  
Deej : 4/18/2017 5:48 pm : link
In comment 13433227 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Would give us a third young player who needs major strength work. He's not a floor general nor plus defender like Frank. Monk is smaller than the classic super 2's that have succeeded in the triangle. And I don't think he's a one.


Isnt Monk an inch shorter than Kobe's actual height?
RE: Raise your hand if you wanted Mudiay or Okafor  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13433244 Deej said:
Quote:
[Deej raises hand] and then consider how hard you want to dig your heels in on relatively interchangable prospects. There is probably a top 3-4 (Tatum) and then a group of pick'ems. At 7 you'll still have a choice among 2-3 of them unless two guys drop out due to medicals/second looks in the scouting. Plus there will be helium guys.


agreed
I wanted  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 5:55 pm : link
Mudiay pretty badly, and I think your point is fair.

But being arm chair analysts is half the fun. And I'm not sure Phil has earned the trust that some other GMs have.
Oh, sure  
Deej : 4/18/2017 5:58 pm : link
Im sure that by draft day I'll decide that if we dont get Isaac or Smith (e.g.), we might as well fold the franchise.
RE: Raise your hand if you wanted Mudiay or Okafor  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13433244 Deej said:
Quote:
[Deej raises hand] and then consider how hard you want to dig your heels in on relatively interchangable prospects. There is probably a top 3-4 (Tatum) and then a group of pick'ems. At 7 you'll still have a choice among 2-3 of them unless two guys drop out due to medicals/second looks in the scouting. Plus there will be helium guys.


Beautifully said.

There was a consensus "3" in 2015. Last year, there was a top 2, then a "consensus 5" after those 2. So far, it looks like all the best prospects were outside that crop completely (Brogdon, Maker and Chriss).

Collins can easily be one of those helium guys. I can see him being pit directly against Markannen because he can rebound and play defense as well as having promise for a 3 point shot.
I think we've just been beaten down as a fanbase,  
bceagle05 : 4/18/2017 6:12 pm : link
particularly when it comes to the lottery and draft. Steph Curry/Jordan Hill alone is a heavy burden to bear. Porzingis has mitigated the failed tank of two seasons ago, but we were playing with fire there too. The McDyess trade that backfired. Not to mention all the lost draft picks that have turned into Noah, Aldridge, Hayward, etc.

Now we're setting our sights on a mystery man from France, which brings back memories of, well, I won't even say the name.
I wanted both!  
Carl in CT : 4/18/2017 7:55 pm : link
Had Okafor at #2 and Mudiay at #4 for my order. Didn't know much about KP until workouts.
I wanted towns soooo bad that year  
DennyInDenville : 4/18/2017 8:01 pm : link
Was very happy with KP

However I was a Mudiay guy and wanted him at 4. I liked KP over Russell and Okafor though. My rankings were

1.) Towns
2.) Mudiauy
3.) KP
.  
Anakim : 4/18/2017 9:52 pm : link
Stefan Bondy‏Verified account @SBondyNYDN Just when you thought it can't get worse for Knicks fans, playoff Robin Lopez shows up and does things Joakim can only dream of these days.
Chicago an option for Chicago now??  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 10:27 pm : link
Get grant back???
Salaries won't match though  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 10:30 pm : link
How do sign and trades work? You can't attach players to a guy who gets signed right away correct?

Otherwise you could do something like Mirotic contract + like grant and Valentine.
RE: Chicago an option for Chicago now??  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:31 pm : link
In comment 13433664 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Get grant back???


id do their first, zipser, valentine and payne
RE: .  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 11:50 pm : link
In comment 13433619 Anakim said:
Quote:
Stefan Bondy‏Verified account @SBondyNYDN Just when you thought it can't get worse for Knicks fans, playoff Robin Lopez shows up and does things Joakim can only dream of these days.


I read an article earlier today in which a guy was trying to talk up among others, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Jerian Grant, who're now a combined 4-23 from the field in the postseason. I'm so fed up with these horseshit writers. I don't give a shit what Robin Lopez is doing anymore.
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