-Asked this the other day but who says no to Melo for Bosh's contract and the Heat's pick?
-Andrew Lynch of Fox Sports has a dumb 6 step plan to fixing the Knicks
Fire Phil
Snipe Ujiri (who he claims Dolan has wanted to hire before, which actually was a rare positive thing from Dolan), or Sam Hinkie
Keep Hornacek
Sign Chris Paul and keep Melo
Chris Paul is a first ballot HOFer but just silly. I'd LOVE to dump Phil for Ujiri but that's not happening, at least not this year.
-Berman claims the only reason Jackson hired Hornacek over Rambis was because the younger Hornacek would likely relate to players better... Hornacek is about to be 54, Rambis is 59. This story seems highly, highly unlikely.
-Berman The 18-year-old point guard Frank Ntilikina, who played in the French League for LNB Pro A and is a projected lottery pick, was videotaped working out in the Carmelo Anthony-owned gym in midtown Manhattan. The Knicks scouted the 6-5 prospect in France. Ntilikina should be around if the Knicks pick around sixth or seventh. Draft workouts can begin in late April.
Can't necessarily fault Ainge for staying pat if the offers weren't there, but man, how would Jimmy Butler look in green right now?
Stevens is a hell of a coach for getting that team the 1 seed, they play hard and that gets them a long way in the regular season but you saw yesterday whem thomas is notnin they struggle to score
VO and Frenchie could make a studly defensive back court. VO projected at triangle PG could free us up to use the pick on a SF without fearing that we have no guards.
My concern about Oladipo is that he doesnt seem to be getting any better. Shooting has gotten more efficient, but that's probably because of the attention Westbrook demands.
Can't necessarily fault Ainge for staying pat if the offers weren't there, but man, how would Jimmy Butler look in green right now?
I heard one Boston fan say it best. He was worried that if the bulls started winning games the narrative would shift to that they should've made a trade to win. But he states that the goal isn't to beat Chicago, it is to beat Cleveland. I think Boston is very, very far away from beating Cleveland. I don't think Jimmy butler on his own would accomplish that.
Similarly, Riley isn't dumb enough to think he's a Carmelo Anthony away from beating cleveland. Miami should be trading Whiteside and dragic, not picks.
Westbrook will be 30 the season after next, and with his game, he has a short window. Really, I could see him shopped next year -- Thunder cant afford to lose him for nothing too (the owner probably wont allow it for $$ reasons). If they're going to retain him, they're going to have to pursue another name player to take the scoring burden off of him. And they cant put together a package for prime stars like Butler.
Similarly, Riley isn't dumb enough to think he's a Carmelo Anthony away from beating cleveland. Miami should be trading Whiteside and dragic, not picks.
I dunno Arison posted a picture of himself posing with Waiters/Johnson "Miami Heat future looks very bright" implying he's likely going to ante up for the 30 year old Johnson. Seems like they will add to their core vs. "rebuild". Would it really be nuts to see a Melo/Whiteside/Dragic/Johnson/Waiters/Tyler Johnson/Winslow core give a Cavs/Boston team some trouble?
I would trade him straight up for the 14th pick and take someone like OG.
I would trade him straight up for the 14th pick and take someone like OG.
Good question but if we are "exploring" other teams that might make sense you would think Miami, the weather, the city, how "close" they could potentially be from being a good team... I would guess Melo would be open to it.
Melo aside, I could see them dumping VO or Kanter this offseason just for financial flexibility. They're already at $111 million and $110 million for the next two seasons -- i.e. capped out. That's losing Taj, Collison, and Roberson this offseason. That owner traded Harden to avoid the tax -- he's gonna pay a tax for those role players? No, and Russ will probably be pissed about losing that depth. Tax will kick in at ~$121 million next year.
Quote:
I don't know what move he's made recently indicates he would trade one of his top 3 players for someone 10 years older and not much better.
Similarly, Riley isn't dumb enough to think he's a Carmelo Anthony away from beating cleveland. Miami should be trading Whiteside and dragic, not picks.
I dunno Arison posted a picture of himself posing with Waiters/Johnson "Miami Heat future looks very bright" implying he's likely going to ante up for the 30 year old Johnson. Seems like they will add to their core vs. "rebuild". Would it really be nuts to see a Melo/Whiteside/Dragic/Johnson/Waiters/Tyler Johnson/Winslow core give a Cavs/Boston team some trouble?
My point still stands I don't think Riley (not arison) is dumb enough to execute trading a lottery pick for melo. I mean just the way all of us talk about Melo, if he had 2-3 more years on his deal it would seem we would have to GIVE a first rounder to get him off the team. I'd imagine Riley is pretty pissed that his team missed the playoffs and was slotted #3 in the draft 2 months ago. Is there any worse situation? It seems like the best thing to come out of this is that Miami is loaded with starters/role players that could help playoff teams.
I suspect the Knicks lurk in the weeds hoping a team that can't land Butler or PG13 settles for the inferior option in Melo.
That's a good point. Perhaps Butler wasn't going anywhere all along. Looks like a good move now that they are playing well.
The Vertical reported some players were fuming at Jacksons triangle plans that perhaps will include another triangle camp similar to last offseason.
Theyre a mess, one agent told The Post.
According to a source, Porzingis is fed up at how strangely the organization is run. Such dysfunction may include Jackson tweeting a derogatory remark about Anthony, his mentor. Porzingis has said repeatedly he doesnt want Anthony traded. Another source said Porzingis doesnt see how the team can be better without him and Anthony takes the pressure off.
Jackson acknowledged the player unrest Friday, saying the changing pick-and-roll defensive strategies became a push and pull between the coaches and players. And in assessing Jeff Hornacek, Jackson said a disconnect at times with this team, and rebelliousness created some of the discord during the year.
Link - ( New Window )
Something like Portis, Valentine, fillers.
Melo aside, I could see them dumping VO or Kanter this offseason just for financial flexibility. They're already at $111 million and $110 million for the next two seasons -- i.e. capped out. That's losing Taj, Collison, and Roberson this offseason. That owner traded Harden to avoid the tax -- he's gonna pay a tax for those role players? No, and Russ will probably be pissed about losing that depth. Tax will kick in at ~$121 million next year.
That's why I think trading Russ is realistic. Do you really think deep down that swapping Dipo for Melo makes OKC tangibly better? I wouldn't take that team to beat Utah still, let alone Houston, let alone GS/CLE.
I think kanter is the more likely one to be moved because if we are talking about how OKC matches up against contenders, it's hard seeing him get more than 10-12 minutes a game in a playoff series against one, if that.
Would any Knicks fan really get pissy about Kanter, Grant and Abrines for Melo? Kanter has 2 years tops left, he's an expiring if he opts out.
Abrines and Grant get you 2-sub 25 pieces. You could get a nice young core of Frenchy/Fox, Abrines, Grant, KP, Willy, kanter. Let kanter walk when his contract ends. Grants a stud defender and his 3 point shot has improved. Abrines is a sharpshooter with good size for a 2. I'd signup.
I would. The implications of landing that pick go far beyond just winning now. You get one of those PGs and suddenly you can trade thomas before giving him that 5 year $200M deal entering his 30s. Bradley (IMO bostons best player right now) will be looking at a similar deal and smart won't be cheap at all. Seems like the much better path compared to doubling down on this current roster and getting maxed out financially in the long run.
They would. So why not chase him when he becomes a FA rather than trading a lottery pick in a deep draft for an expiring 33 year old?
He's going to very good (offensively anyways). His comparison on draft net was greg Monroe but he looks much more like a wing player with good post skills on offense. He can handle a bit and shoot from range.
Quote:
agreed, however, Butler is 27, an all star defender and scorer. Just not many guys in the league like him that play at an extremely high level on both ends. I'm shocked the Celtics didn't offer their pick this year, especially since they also have the Nets 2018 pick.
I would. The implications of landing that pick go far beyond just winning now. You get one of those PGs and suddenly you can trade thomas before giving him that 5 year $200M deal entering his 30s. Bradley (IMO bostons best player right now) will be looking at a similar deal and smart won't be cheap at all. Seems like the much better path compared to doubling down on this current roster and getting maxed out financially in the long run.
Good point, I just think that as much as every team likes to say "we want to win a championship" most of the time it's just not realistic, and the Celtics should really just try and get as far as they can, with the current players they have, at the same time staying young and exciting. Grabbing Butler would have made them a legit contender for the finals.
Not getting him insured that they keep their picks, but who knows if the picks pan out? You have a sure thing in Butler or even George who was also in talks.
Again I can't fault Ainge for staying pat, but players like Butler and PG don't just grow on trees, and who knows if the guy they take in the draft this year pans out.
As for Melo to Miami, I think it makes a lot of sense for both teams. Winslow has fallen a little out of favor in Miami but is a good young player for the Knicks to try to develop.
Jackson has butchered this entire Melo situation. Fans and the media may hate on Carmelo, but he is one of the most well liked and respected players around the league. And on the Knicks. Even if Phil wanted to trade him, he should have been working with him instead of taking shots at him and pissing him off.
There's also the Gordon Hayward aspect. If all Hayward costs is money you can get a player who is not quite Butler, but just one tier below and keep the pick. Seems like a healthy balance between ensuring a bright future and fielding a competitive team.
Trade Melo Get a player (Jordan Clarkson) and most importantly get salary cap relief
Hit a home run in this draft. Phil needs a talent like KP. I'm not opposed
To drafting Dean Collins from Gonzaga
Get Rambus the fuck out of here
Trade Lee and Oquinn for draft picks and more salary relief
Hope that Noah takes medical retirement and Knicks buy him out
Plenty of money for summer of 2018 FAs
Yes they should trade Kanter before Oladipo. But I dont know that many in the league would be excited about getting Kanter. There isnt much you can do to hide his defensive movement issues. It's the Okafor issue -- talented offensive big with zero defensive game is unplayable, especially if he isnt an elite rebounder.
I'm going to need a 6 step plan to get out of depression if that happens.
That's the role he played exclusively when the Knicks were a 2 seed. But they went away from it and never came back. No fucking clue why.
Yes they should trade Kanter before Oladipo. But I dont know that many in the league would be excited about getting Kanter. There isnt much you can do to hide his defensive movement issues. It's the Okafor issue -- talented offensive big with zero defensive game is unplayable, especially if he isnt an elite rebounder.
It's not about just getting better. HOW much better would they get? They're capped out, not sure how much of a destination they are outside landing veteran min types. For some reason I don't think they remain a top 6 defensive team swapping oladipo for Melo. They're still a first round exit in my eyes.
Not many would get excited about kanter but I'd still do that deal in a heartbeat from a Knicks perspective. Kanter doesn't hurt anymore long term flexibility than keeping Melo would.
That's the role he played exclusively when the Knicks were a 2 seed. But they went away from it and never came back. No fucking clue why.
I've read that Melo really doesnt like playing the 4 defensively.
Quote:
Melo over Oladipo. I think Melo's efficiency explodes playing with someone like Westbrook. I also think OKC becomes a quasi-desination for a 3rd player. Whether that is Wade or Blake or someone else I dont know. But I could start convincing myself that they have a path to a title team before Westbrook breaks down. I dont see that path with the current roster.
Yes they should trade Kanter before Oladipo. But I dont know that many in the league would be excited about getting Kanter. There isnt much you can do to hide his defensive movement issues. It's the Okafor issue -- talented offensive big with zero defensive game is unplayable, especially if he isnt an elite rebounder.
It's not about just getting better. HOW much better would they get? They're capped out, not sure how much of a destination they are outside landing veteran min types. For some reason I don't think they remain a top 6 defensive team swapping oladipo for Melo. They're still a first round exit in my eyes.
Not many would get excited about kanter but I'd still do that deal in a heartbeat from a Knicks perspective. Kanter doesn't hurt anymore long term flexibility than keeping Melo would.
I think they would be a lot better. The need a 2nd guy who can make his own buckets. I think Melo's game gets a lot better as the #2 player, and with Adams out there. Is it a title team? Probably needs another star. But in the era of GSW having 2 top 5 players and 4 top 25 players, I think it is hard to have a title or bust mentality.
Quote:
best position has always been as a stretch 4.
That's the role he played exclusively when the Knicks were a 2 seed. But they went away from it and never came back. No fucking clue why.
I've read that Melo really doesnt like playing the 4 defensively.
Melo doesn't like defense period. I bet he doesn't like chasing around SFs either.
Melo doesn't like defense period. I bet he doesn't like chasing around SFs either.
I think the idea is that he prefers doing a shitty job chasing 3s to bumping against 4s.
- He really likes Derrick Rose and sounds like he wants him back. Unless Rose finds a better situation, I can definitely see him coming back next year.
- Is Phil ever going to admit he was wrong or show any humility? I know the guy has an ego the size of Mars but his failure to learn and admit his mistakes is one of the biggest disappointments about his tenure in NY.
- Rambis isn't going anywhere. Those guys are tight and Rambis' wife is best friends with Jeannie Buss and has worked for the Lakers for a very long time.
- Phil said there were 12 players currently on the roster he can build on. I have no idea who those 12 are. He spoke about Baker like he was the next Pippen. His failure to self scout his own team is one of the biggest red flags about his executive abilities.
- Hornacek is spineless. To allow Jackson to interrupt his practices and essentially coach from the rafters is pathetic. Phil is the same guy who ran Jerry West out of his practices. This setup will never succeed. If Phil wants to run the triangle, then he needs to coach it.
Sorry had to get that off my chest.
The conundrum is that he's at his best with his ball in his hands but how good can your team be with him as the primary ball handler? It's like Waiters with Kyrie. Ideally he's a super 6th man, but his defense is good so you want him on the floor as much as possible.
Even given the poor fit, I don't think OKC should trade him (for Melo at least) but he would be a lot better with the Knicks because
A) Spacing would be better with KP playing one of the big spots
B) He can be the second primary ball handler. He's a solid 2 guard for those 2 PG sets Horny liked to run in Phoenix. You can run side pick and rolls and ideally the other PG would be a good shooter (Frenchy maybe).
There's just no chance of that happening with Westbrook at all.
Oladipo for Melo doesn't make sense straight up but would Melo, Lee, KOQ for Oladipo and Kanter do it? KOQ would be better off for OKC in the playoffs. Lee is a more natural fit off the ball with Westbrook and Melo and is a sharpshooter. Defense isn't much worse than Oladipo probably.
OKC would probably play much slower with those guys, but might give you an optimal mix of spacing without sacrificing defense. You can have Roberson guard the better wing player and lee guard the better guard.
So Melo, Lee, KOQ, Willy for oladipo, kanter, grant and Abrines?
I like Willy's long term potential more than Kanters, but I don't think enough so where I'd turn down turning 1 promising young player for potentially 3-4.
@Cbrickley603
Follow
More
Carmelo Anthony has on too much stuff, 2 arms sleeves, 2 leg sleeves, 2 rubber bands, a head band; the NBA needs to make a 5 band limit
Link - ( New Window )
So Melo, Lee, KOQ, Willy for oladipo, kanter, grant and Abrines?
I like Willy's long term potential more than Kanters, but I don't think enough so where I'd turn down turning 1 promising young player for potentially 3-4.
I don't think OKC would do that trade but even so if I'm the Knicks I would pass. Abrines and Grant aren't that intriguing to me and Oladipo is going to get maxed out. And I can't see Kanter/ KP being an effective pairing. Those lineups would be incredibly slow.
I'm not as high on Willy as most, but I'd roll the dice with him to see how he develops.
KP
Willy
Lee
Noah
Thomas
O'Quinn
Holiday
Kuz
Baker
Randle
NDour
Sasha
Plumlee
Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.
While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.
Quote:
at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.
Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.
While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.
If the Knicks end up drafting Zach Collins after this dumpster fire of a season, that would be a true disaster.
- He really likes Derrick Rose and sounds like he wants him back. Unless Rose finds a better situation, I can definitely see him coming back next year.
- Is Phil ever going to admit he was wrong or show any humility? I know the guy has an ego the size of Mars but his failure to learn and admit his mistakes is one of the biggest disappointments about his tenure in NY.
- Rambis isn't going anywhere. Those guys are tight and Rambis' wife is best friends with Jeannie Buss and has worked for the Lakers for a very long time.
- Phil said there were 12 players currently on the roster he can build on. I have no idea who those 12 are. He spoke about Baker like he was the next Pippen. His failure to self scout his own team is one of the biggest red flags about his executive abilities.
- Hornacek is spineless. To allow Jackson to interrupt his practices and essentially coach from the rafters is pathetic. Phil is the same guy who ran Jerry West out of his practices. This setup will never succeed. If Phil wants to run the triangle, then he needs to coach it.
Sorry had to get that off my chest.
He's "spineless"? It's pretty hard for Jeff Hornacek to puff up his chest and big time a guy with 13 rings out of his practices, even putting aside that Phil is his immediate boss.
Quote:
at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.
Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.
While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.
Collins has almost no shot of being a star. At 6-7 you reach for a potential star. Notice NOBODY has Collins going top 6-7. I can't find a single source that has him going that high. Are they "all" wrong?
DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th
You may say "well 6 to 10-11 isnt a big deal". In the NBA is it. There are clear players considered superior prospects. That's an awful pick at 6 or 7 and that's the kind of "Phil Jackson reach" people are scared will happen. I actually looked for a source that had him top 10 and couldn't find even 1. That doesn't mean the player sucks. It means at 6th or 7th overall he'd be a major reach without the upside associated with a player being picked that high. I'm not letting a great final 4 game impact who the Knicks should take high in the draft, sorry.
He has a guaranteed $15 million contract. Tough to pity the guy for lack of job security.
At this point, I think anyone who takes a job in Knicksland is well aware that you could end up covered in shit on the way out. You take a job with the Knicks for money and because your wife wants to get out of 3rd rate cities. You dont do it to burnish your credentials.
Quote:
In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.
Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.
While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.
If the Knicks end up drafting Zach Collins after this dumpster fire of a season, that would be a true disaster.
He was a McDonald's All-American who came off the bench his junior year in high school because 2 other McDonald's All-Americans started over him. One went to Duke and the other is on the Orlando Magic, yet Collins is better than both of them. Maybe you don't want him, but stop acting like he's a scrub.
Collins has almost no shot of being a star. At 6-7 you reach for a potential star. Notice NOBODY has Collins going top 6-7. I can't find a single source that has him going that high. Are they "all" wrong?
DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th
You may say "well 6 to 10-11 isnt a big deal". In the NBA is it. There are clear players considered superior prospects. That's an awful pick at 6 or 7 and that's the kind of "Phil Jackson reach" people are scared will happen. I actually looked for a source that had him top 10 and couldn't find even 1. That doesn't mean the player sucks. It means at 6th or 7th overall he'd be a major reach without the upside associated with a player being picked that high. I'm not letting a great final 4 game impact who the Knicks should take high in the draft, sorry.
No one has him going 6-7 because this is an unusually deep draft. Not being considered 6-7 in THIS draft is not an indictment of one's ability. He has almost no shot at being a star? Based on what? That's just ridiculous.
Like I said, the same people who were cool with Robert Williams being the Knicks' pick can't act like this would be a disaster.
Quote:
In comment 13431336 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13431201 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
at 6-7 would be a truly awful reach. I'd be sick in fact.
Over the past 30 years, the only 3 players with 10+ points, 10+ rebounds, and 5+ blocks in a Final Four game are Danny Manning, Anthony Davis, and Zach Collins.
While 6-7 is a bit of a reach, he's an exceedingly talented player. People were cool with Robert Williams, yet Collins' per 40 numbers were across the board better. Collins would certainly improve the Knicks' defense.
If the Knicks end up drafting Zach Collins after this dumpster fire of a season, that would be a true disaster.
He was a McDonald's All-American who came off the bench his junior year in high school because 2 other McDonald's All-Americans started over him. One went to Duke and the other is on the Orlando Magic, yet Collins is better than both of them. Maybe you don't want him, but stop acting like he's a scrub.
Fultz/ Ball/ Jackson/ Tatum/ Smith/ Fox and others were all Mcdonald's All Americans and I'm guessing didn't come off the bench in high school or college.
I'm not saying he's a scrub. But his ceiling is definitely limited compared to the top guys. He's also not a good fit on the Knicks.
If the prize for being one of the worst 6 teams in the NBA is Zach Collins, than yes that is a disaster.
At 6 or 7 the Knicks should have a shot at guys like Isaac, Smith, Fox. Collins has talent but allow me to pass on a thin kid who averaged... 0.4 assists. Not a typo.
At 6 or 7 the Knicks should have a shot at guys like Isaac, Smith, Fox. Collins has talent but allow me to pass on a thin kid who averaged... 0.4 assists. Not a typo.
taking collins at 6 or 7 will make me stop watching i think...
that would be absolutely awful
Smith concerns me too but I think workouts will really be a big deal this year. I think Fox, Frenchy, Smith could rise/fall (their order) based on how they look (and interview) with the Knicks.
If you trade down and add an asset I change my tune. Passing on guys like Isaac for him because of some "triangle fit" would really bum me out. In his case his lack of passing ability (at least this season) wouldn't suggest "obvious triangle player" just using him as an example.
DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th
I have no opinion on Collins. But it's somewhat absurd that any late lottery prospect is that consistently ranked. Suggests to me a herding mentality -- i.e. several of these sites are ranking guys based on consensus (basically, a soft plagarization of opinion).
Quote:
DX has him 10th
Nbadraft.net (admittedly a shitty site) has him 11th
ESPN/Ford has him 11th
CBS has him 13th
Bleacher Report 11
Tankathon 12th
Newsday 13th
NBA draft room 12th
NBA scouting live 13th
I have no opinion on Collins. But it's somewhat absurd that any late lottery prospect is that consistently ranked. Suggests to me a herding mentality -- i.e. several of these sites are ranking guys based on consensus (basically, a soft plagarization of opinion).
Deej,
If that's the case you would have expected him to "rocket" up these sites after his final 4 performance or at least 1 to "overrate" him based on it and yet I have't seen anything of the sort. Chad Ford in particular (at least claims) to talk to scouts and NBA people and he doesn't have him suddenly crazy high despite being a big who had a big freshman season.
Those standards are a little unfair though. CP3 is the best defensive point in the NBA and an unanamious hall of fame point guard. And Rose with a 3 point shot and a betterdefender/ borderiline top 10 PG sounds pretty appealing. I'm higher on Smith than most and could see him becoming an all star down the line.
I'd be very happy with the pick
But what if Davis wasnt forced to be the best player on his team? His Hornets teams were good for 41-47 wins with him, Mash, and Edlen Campbell/Jamal Magliore. His GSW teams won 42 and 48 games with him, Monte, and Captain Jack. What if Baron had been the PG for Dirk (read between the lines: KP)? Frankly, you tell me Smith is gonna be as good offensively as Baron was in his 20s, that is pretty tempting at 6/7.
Tony Bradley in the second round?
Quote:
With a 3 point shot and probably a better defender. Which could be a pretty good thing. I think he can be a borderline top 10 PG but I don't think he's a natural PG that elevates his teammates and size can limit his defensive upside. he has the tools but unlike say CP3 he hasn't shown to be a defensive presence yet. You can say anything you want about his coach and injury but that doesn't mean he's automatically going to become CP3 on defense in the NBA. I think fox, smith (and even Frenchy) should be more of a debate than it appears to be. I still might lean smith but I think it's almost a coin flip for me on fox vs smith. I'll give smith tails.
Those standards are a little unfair though. CP3 is the best defensive point in the NBA and an unanamious hall of fame point guard. And Rose with a 3 point shot and a betterdefender/ borderiline top 10 PG sounds pretty appealing. I'm higher on Smith than most and could see him becoming an all star down the line.
The CP3 comparison was that he's a peak example of an undersized guard being a great defender. He's the exception and not the rule at all. Also a longer wingspan by a fair amount.
Don't see how Isaac has no business here. He can start off at the 3 and play the 4 with KP at the 5. That duo in your frontcourt probably makes you more versatile on both ends than keeping Willy for 35-40 minutes at the 5.
Quote:
spoke to a friend of mine who is a writer and has had "info" before and he said a name to watch for with the Knicks is... Tony Bradley. Not at 6 or 7 obviously but he's heard Gaines is smitten.
Tony Bradley in the second round?
I was talking to him about the French kid (he confirmed the Knicks really like him) and I said I liked Swanigan as a late pick who will help someone and he said "want a random name I hear the Knicks love? Tony Bradley. Gaines loves him and the stats people love him. They don't think he will sign with an agent though. Maybe a 2018 name to watch".
Quote:
don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.
But what if Davis wasnt forced to be the best player on his team? His Hornets teams were good for 41-47 wins with him, Mash, and Edlen Campbell/Jamal Magliore. His GSW teams won 42 and 48 games with him, Monte, and Captain Jack. What if Baron had been the PG for Dirk (read between the lines: KP)? Frankly, you tell me Smith is gonna be as good offensively as Baron was in his 20s, that is pretty tempting at 6/7.
I think that's probably his ceiling. But again, that whole crux of PGs, Marbury, Baron, Steve Francis, never won anything. Ball dominant non defense playing PGs don't have a great track record.
Good size at 6'10, 240 and a 7'4 wingspan. Was the third ranked C coming out of high school (in front of the aforementioned Zach Collins). Top offensive rebounder.
Certainly sounds like an intriguing project
Because he's actually a modern day NBA center. Isaac is a 3 who will eventually have to be a 4. Collins needs to put on weight, but he's hardly in a category with guys like Isaac and Ingram. When compared to the 9 players who can reasonably be expected to be picked ahead of him, Collins per 40 minute numbers were the BEST in shot blocking and rebounding. The only 2 guys with more points per 40 were Fultz and Monk. Even Collins' shooting percentages were terrific.
His only weaknesses are he needs to get stronger and his ball-handling. As a Knicks fan, I would draft 9 guys over him, but the idea that drafting Collins would be a "disaster" is asinine and disrespectful.
i am joining you, really intrugyed by frank
Quote:
I'm full on board the Frenchie bandwagon. Stating my claim here as bandwagon pioneer.
i am joining you, really intrugyed by frank
Now now, before we jump on Frank the French's bandwagon, let's see if we pick in the top 3 or not. Of course this is the Knicks and nothing ever goes our way but maybe Sexy Silver will rig the lottery for us.
Quote:
would make Collins more appealing than say Isaac if we were taking a thin big hoping to improve the defense?
Because he's actually a modern day NBA center. Isaac is a 3 who will eventually have to be a 4. Collins needs to put on weight, but he's hardly in a category with guys like Isaac and Ingram. When compared to the 9 players who can reasonably be expected to be picked ahead of him, Collins per 40 minute numbers were the BEST in shot blocking and rebounding. The only 2 guys with more points per 40 were Fultz and Monk. Even Collins' shooting percentages were terrific.
His only weaknesses are he needs to get stronger and his ball-handling. As a Knicks fan, I would draft 9 guys over him, but the idea that drafting Collins would be a "disaster" is asinine and disrespectful.
Why does Isaac "have" to be a 4? He was a guard in HS, he is more than capable of guarding 3s. He can play the 4, he can also probably play the 5 (better rebounder than KP). I don't see why he "has" to play any position. He's the most complete player projected to go outside the top 5.
Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.
Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.
he never said he would trade porzingis or kp was not untouchable..
he basically said kp still has a lot of work to do befor he becomes "the guy" he said he would like him to stop settling for the 3 because he can get thay shot at any time..
he also said they listen to everything on evryone, never named kp specifically
plus frank can shoot the ball and playe either the 2 or 3
Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.
I wouldn't call a player untouchable unless they are absolutely a top 10 player in the league already with no chance of leaving.
Obviously the value I'm expecting would be very high. Not many teams could put together a package I'd for sure consider.
For Boston, both BKN picks would have to be on the table for me and then probably Smart + Euros on top.
If MIN offered Lavine, their pick and Dunn? I'd have to put thought into that one.
Phoenix: This years pick + Chriss and Bender would probably do it for me.
Philly: So many picks, it would be hard to turn down if they were on the table. There are plenty of combinations I'd probably consider.
Probably not many more teams could put together that sort of package, but I'd never say its off the table entirely.
if soxers got lakers pick:
their 2 picks this year, okafor and a future pick, i would think about it
So we would get two of Doncic, Ayton and Porter Jr.?
That does sound intriguing
Quote:
Love to see what a KP trade that Knicks fans would be okay with would look like lol. Outside of some totally unrealistic deal for a superior young player (KAT) or a clearly lopsided deal where the Knicks get multiple young pieces (Simmons + Embiid) what would it even look like? I'm not too concerned because I just can't imagine it. It's possible Jackson was taking a little shot at KP but more likely he was just being Phil Jackson and "the team matters more than the player" etc
if soxers got lakers pick:
their 2 picks this year, okafor and a future pick, i would think about it
Hell, screw Okafor. How would Simmons, Saric, KP AND Embiid/Holmes even work out?
Give me Saric on top of the two picks and I say yes. Maybe throw in Oak for shits and giggles anyways, not much value with him.
A few other ones:
Sacrametno: Skal + their 2 first rounders would get it done for me I think.
Orlando: If they get a top 2-3 pick, that pick + Gordon, their late 1st and Hezonja.
LA: If they get their pick, that pick + Ingram and Randle I'd do.
Any team picking after 8 I don't think could put together a package I'd personally approve of.
Now now, before we jump on Frank the French's bandwagon, let's see if we pick in the top 3 or not. Of course this is the Knicks and nothing ever goes our way but maybe Sexy Silver will rig the lottery for us.
I will not give up on a top 3 pick until that card says otherwise. I wonder who will sit up there for the Knicks. The chances of Phil doing it are negative infinity to zero. It will probably be Steve Mills (ugh)... I'd let Pat Ewing do it.
Quote:
How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.
Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.
he never said he would trade porzingis or kp was not untouchable..
he basically said kp still has a lot of work to do befor he becomes "the guy" he said he would like him to stop settling for the 3 because he can get thay shot at any time..
he also said they listen to everything on evryone, never named kp specifically
But in the past Jackson has made it clear that KP was untouchable. Now no one on the team is untouchable. He definitely meant what he said. And to be proud of him for not shooting a 3 in a game is just another of many examples of why Phil is a terrible executive.
A trade I would be okay with? I'll ignore the older established stars ( Lebron, Durant, Curry etc.) KAT and Giannis I would do immediately. Davis and Jokic I would most likely do.
Jimmy Butler straight up? I love Butler but probably not.
What about both of Boston's Brooklyn picks? That's a hard no from me. I think KP would go number 1 in this draft.
KP isn't one of the best players in the league yet, but his trade value may be top 10-15 in the league.
you do it?
Monk (?)
Saric
KP
Embiid
..and maybe another top five pick from the Lakers this year.
Quote:
How about Jackson not declaring Porzingis untouchable? I thought that would get more attention. If he trades KP that its time to put Phil in the loony bin.
Any chance he falls for a package from Boston? Is there any scenario he gets traded? Unless its for a small select few players, I sure hope not.
I wouldn't call a player untouchable unless they are absolutely a top 10 player in the league already with no chance of leaving.
Obviously the value I'm expecting would be very high. Not many teams could put together a package I'd for sure consider.
For Boston, both BKN picks would have to be on the table for me and then probably Smart + Euros on top.
If MIN offered Lavine, their pick and Dunn? I'd have to put thought into that one.
Phoenix: This years pick + Chriss and Bender would probably do it for me.
Philly: So many picks, it would be hard to turn down if they were on the table. There are plenty of combinations I'd probably consider.
Probably not many more teams could put together that sort of package, but I'd never say its off the table entirely.
Very surpised to hear you would take those Minny and Phoenix packages. I would hang up the phone for those offers.
you do it?
I prefer Randle to D-lo but not enough to make that a no for me. I think I would do that.
you do it?
I'd pass unless the Lakers were giving up a top 3 pick (Fultz, Jackson or Ball). If it were Melo and KP for Fultz/Jackson/Ball + Russell and Ingram I think you have to do it.
One of Fultz/Jackson/Ball, whoever the Knicks picked with their own pick, Ingram, Russell and Willy would be a pretty great way to begin a rebuild.
Why does Isaac "have" to be a 4? He was a guard in HS, he is more than capable of guarding 3s. He can play the 4, he can also probably play the 5 (better rebounder than KP). I don't see why he "has" to play any position. He's the most complete player projected to go outside the top 5.
I like Isaac a lot, so I'm not knocking him in any way. He certainly has the ball-handling skills and defensive ability to be a 3, but I just think he'll eventually outgrow that position as his body matures. However, I don't think he'll ever have the heft to consistently be a 5.
I prefer the Minnesota one to Phoenix. I think Lavine could thrive in a James Harden type role. If we are reasonably expecting KP to be a top 10 player in the league, I can see Lavine being a top 20-25 player.
Getting rid of Melo AND KP probably ensures a top 3 pick next year too.
ITA. The only one of these deals I would consider for even a second is a Philly one they probably wouldn't do involving Simmons.
Quote:
Why does Isaac "have" to be a 4? He was a guard in HS, he is more than capable of guarding 3s. He can play the 4, he can also probably play the 5 (better rebounder than KP). I don't see why he "has" to play any position. He's the most complete player projected to go outside the top 5.
I like Isaac a lot, so I'm not knocking him in any way. He certainly has the ball-handling skills and defensive ability to be a 3, but I just think he'll eventually outgrow that position as his body matures. However, I don't think he'll ever have the heft to consistently be a 5.
I think Isaac can be molded into a Draymond Green type. Obviously Draymond's strength and physicality are unmatched, but Isaac is a much more natural scorer/shooter and a better athlete. I can see him becoming a #3 option on a contender just based off that. It's hard imagining that for any of the PGs being talked about for the Knicsk.
Quote:
their pick this year, russell, ingram and deng for melo and kp
you do it?
I'd pass unless the Lakers were giving up a top 3 pick (Fultz, Jackson or Ball). If it were Melo and KP for Fultz/Jackson/Ball + Russell and Ingram I think you have to do it.
One of Fultz/Jackson/Ball, whoever the Knicks picked with their own pick, Ingram, Russell and Willy would be a pretty great way to begin a rebuild.
Well if the Lakers are giving their first in this draft it only could be a top 3 pick. They lose it to philly if its not.
this is a guy who is supposed to be the next leader of this franchise and he cant handle a little drama and a losing season? give me a fucking break...
eli manning was being talk about like a bust and being run out of town and he put it behind him and won a superbowl...
i know it is an unpopular opinion but kp really needs to man the fuck up
Quote:
In comment 13431372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
don't have any interest in Smith. I don't see how his ceiling is any better than someone like Baron Davis, who was a perennial best player on a bad/average team year in and year out.
But what if Davis wasnt forced to be the best player on his team? His Hornets teams were good for 41-47 wins with him, Mash, and Edlen Campbell/Jamal Magliore. His GSW teams won 42 and 48 games with him, Monte, and Captain Jack. What if Baron had been the PG for Dirk (read between the lines: KP)? Frankly, you tell me Smith is gonna be as good offensively as Baron was in his 20s, that is pretty tempting at 6/7.
I think that's probably his ceiling. But again, that whole crux of PGs, Marbury, Baron, Steve Francis, never won anything. Ball dominant non defense playing PGs don't have a great track record.
Steph Curry. And save me the blog posts trying to argue that Steph is a great defender. He isnt. He did get better though. And if you're talking about guys who are not the best player on their team, Kyrie too.
Bigger picture, I think an underrated story is that Curry aside (and really he's an undersized 2 playing PG), the recent history of the NBA is that titles start with a great wing, not a great PG. Chris Paul cant even get anywhere. It's probably more important to be able to defend the 1 than to have a great PG.
Im not a big NCAA guy. How good/bad is Smith's defense?
What have I told you about listening to World B. Free?
Quote:
you'd have to why he couldn't play the 5 full time and cause havoc for every team in the league.
What have I told you about listening to World B. Free?
I don't remember...was it to keep doing it?
Interested to hear how the workouts go with the Belgium PG.
I admittedly don't know much about Collins but I can see the intrigue. Pretty good athlete. Has a lot of similar qualities that made me like Robert Williams a lot. Probably not as athletic but taller/better shooter for sure.
You've all been beaten. Evil has won. The end is nigh.
You don't trade KP. Shame on you for even discussing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS11HzYsSPs
He's a beast in transition. Like his defense. His halfcourt game scares me a lot.
You've all been beaten. Evil has won. The end is nigh.
You don't trade KP. Shame on you for even discussing it.
Totally agree. KP is legitimately a guy who could develop into the #1 guy on a title team. Obviously there is a lot of projection in saying that. But there isnt a LeBron/Shaq/Duncan in the league right now to take over -- a guy who entered the league getting measured for rings. KP has the tools and the attitude to be that type of player. You dont trade that kind of player. You build around him. I mean I guess you could do the implausible and randomly swap KP for someone else's KP (GF, KAT). But to take a package of lesser pieces, even if they're really quality? That to me ignores the fact that the NBA is a star's league. Hardest thing to get is that #1 guy. Steph Curry is worth more than Klay, a high #1 and another piece.
Rose is probably a spark off the bench (not even a true 6th man) for a contending team. Let him sign with the Clippers and play 10 minutes a game when CP3 needs a rest.
I would go as far to say it sounds like Phil definitely wants him back. I was shocked by the way he spoke about him at the press conference. My only hope is Rose finds a better situation with another team.
That is certainly the sense I got from the presser.
Im still not at all convinced that Phil wants a multi-year build. I think Phil would rather have Rose and win a few more games, especially on a short deal, than to just role with the kids.
Frankly, when has Phil ever shown patience for kids? He took over the Bulls after Jordan was already an MVP. He took over the Lakers when they already had Shaq and Kobe was entering year 4. Im blanking on whether Phil ever took a rookie and developed him into a star player (Kukoc doesnt count).
Leave it to the Knicks to destroy a wonderful marriage!
JK...I think.
He's got a kid. He may have LESS flexibility because of this, not more.
1. Either he's getting a large deal from the Knicks where they outbid other teams OR teams are so down on him that the best he can find is a shit deal with the Knicks
2. If the best he can do is a shit deal with the Knicks (presumably 1 year) what incentive does he have to care about helping the kids develop that wasn't there this year? He showed absolutely zero chemistry with KP/Willy and no evidence of it improving as the year went one
3. Over the top injury prone, 4 knee surgeries now
4. Quit on the team
5. If we draft a PG, this is the guy you want as a mentor?
6. Woj reported Rose was furious being benched for Baker. He's going to be okay with a rookie playing over him?
7. Consistently took shots at Hornacek. Say what you will about Melo but he most certainly didn't say anything to make Hornacek look inept, Rose did.
8. Absolutely zero defensive effort, why in the world would that change now?
If the Knicks insist in bringing in a veteran PG then Sergio Rodriguez is the right call. An unselfish mediocre player who has already been a role player (accepting his role) and has a relationship with KP and Willy.
"Me, Melo and Whoever Jordan Crawford's boy is are all Eskimo Brothers. #Word"
I don't know if this is a "smoke -> fire" situation but LaLa has been caught up in quite a few cheating allegations over the last few years.
Quote:
Open up that list of trade partners, Melo! The old ball and chain ain't a factor now.
He's got a kid. He may have LESS flexibility because of this, not more.
Yeah, that was my first thought.
PS
Screw you, Phil. You've done more harm to this team than Isiah Thomas.
Yeah. So now as a fan, I have to hope that she's a demonstrably unfit mother so Melo will get custody even though he's traveling 50+ nights. No, that's going too far.
Link - ( New Window )
he hates phil no matter what he does
1. Either he's getting a large deal from the Knicks where they outbid other teams OR teams are so down on him that the best he can find is a shit deal with the Knicks
2. If the best he can do is a shit deal with the Knicks (presumably 1 year) what incentive does he have to care about helping the kids develop that wasn't there this year? He showed absolutely zero chemistry with KP/Willy and no evidence of it improving as the year went one
3. Over the top injury prone, 4 knee surgeries now
4. Quit on the team
5. If we draft a PG, this is the guy you want as a mentor?
6. Woj reported Rose was furious being benched for Baker. He's going to be okay with a rookie playing over him?
7. Consistently took shots at Hornacek. Say what you will about Melo but he most certainly didn't say anything to make Hornacek look inept, Rose did.
8. Absolutely zero defensive effort, why in the world would that change now?
If the Knicks insist in bringing in a veteran PG then Sergio Rodriguez is the right call. An unselfish mediocre player who has already been a role player (accepting his role) and has a relationship with KP and Willy.
Agree on all the points- especially the defense aspect. Being awful defensively at the point has killed the Knicks and kills any team defense. There are so many good guards in the league now, its very hard to "hide" Rose on defense. If they resign Rose and reach to draft a guy because he "fits the triangle", I'm done as a Knicks fan for a while.
I'm worried he might not be cheap. To be honest I don't see how he's drastically different from Rose. You replace Rose's scoring at the rim with better perimeter shooting and you have Mills.
To be clear I'm not buying the rumor at all but the "rumor" going around twitter is Paul would leave huge money on the table to join the Spurs. I don't honestly believe it. It was more about peoples opinion of Mills than anything else. The player on the Spurs I would love to snipe one day is Kyle Anderson. Man he's smooth
I would be fine with a Patty Mills move. Good shooter, above average defender. Maybe some of the Spurs magic can rub off on the Knicks.
What about Holiday? He's only 26 but a max deal for him is 4 years 120 million. Although not an all star PG, he is an excellent defender and probably all nba defense 2nd team. He would have to come at less than the max for it to make sense for the Knicks. New Orleans also can't afford to lose him because they have no way to replace him. He's clearly a target of Phil though. Pretty obsessive from the rumors.
They could definitely make it work. If Paul wants to be a Spur, they will create the necessary cap room. Their cap is actually in really good shape going forward next few years. They are like the Patriots, good at everything.
Hard no on Holiday for me. Fan of his, I just don't think he's worth a max. Never healthy.
Thinking about it now, giving Noah like a 2 year $50M deal would've been better for this. That way Melo wouldn't be the only "expiring".
I think we're as far away from being a good team as any team in the league aside from our neighbors in Jersey.
Some of the lottery teams are worse off (Dallas, Charlotte, Detroit). Maybe Miami too, I don't see their path from "goodness" to "greatness". Indiana may have it rough if PG is serious about leaving. Does anyone envy Atlanta's position?
Maybe I'm pessimistic but I'd rather be a lottery dweller than a top seed pretender with Lebron still apparently in his prime in the East and quite possibly the greatest team in history in the West.
It's a very blunt view, but I don't regret seeing that way. I wouldn't trade KP for Lowry, Derozan and JV because they aren't giving you a real chance at a ring. Just how the NBA is structured. Maybe another dynasty will arise when Lebron is done (GF) but I'd rather have a prime KP cross that bridge in a few years than challenge CLE/GS now. I mean heck, I don't know that I wouldn't classify Cleveland as "pretender" with the Warriors around, and no EC team has a shot at Cleveland.
I don't think it's nuts but they may need to land a big ticket FA somewhere along the line, and Milwaukee's a tough sell. Not sure Greg Monroe counts.
Jesus. He's 32 years old. That's a rookie move.
Quote:
Not predicting it happens but if everything broke right I'd pick the Bucks as the team to "replace" the Cavs in the East. I know that sounds nuts
I don't think it's nuts but they may need to land a big ticket FA somewhere along the line, and Milwaukee's a tough sell. Not sure Greg Monroe counts.
I don't think they need to. IMO they are the 2nd best team in the east right now, or at least closer than they get credit for. Giannis is T-3 years from being the best player in the league. Middleton will make a few all star teams once the Bucks start getting top-3 seeds. Brogdon may not be an all star but boy the dude is a winner. He's like George Hill. I'll argue Dan on maker being as good as KP but I'd wager he makes an all star team, or gets significant votes for one.
Not even considering Parker. If I were the Bucks, I'd view Parker as a way to dump their bad contracts and get a solid center. I'm not going to pay him whatever he's going to get. I'd attach Hawes, teletovic, Henson, etc. to Parker and turn into brook Lopez or vucevic. I don't think you need some stud center to make the Bucks a contender. Just a 5 that can stretch the floor. The other 4 guys can play defense and rebound.
So maybe Jackson sucks. But then so did all these other guys.
It's clear that the real reason that Knicks have been awful for almost 20 years (with a good year or two tossed in there) is the owner and the completely toxic media.
No team in NY gets hammered the way the Knicks do and it is to the determent of the fans, the team, its players, and yes, the general managers.
It is pretty bleak as it is clear the owner is not selling and the media gets too much enjoyment out of trashing the team, to do anything differently.
And yet . . .we Knick fans can't give up. Now with all our picks, at some point, the luck has to turn around and the Knicks will get a generational talent. I hope.
Was it Rihanna? - ( New Window )
they may go for a quick fix to try and get into the playoffs, plus magic said today on the radio lakers well have a star player on their roster...
lakers are not going to go with a slow rebuild
i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..
if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me
I'd be pretty upset if the Knicks end up with Ntilikina after this disaster of a season. If we don't pick high enough to grab a Jackson, I'd focus on Fox or Smith. All of the good PG's in the league right now except for Paul are shoot-first PG's. To dismiss Fox and Smith because they might dominate the ball too much is silly. We need good backcourt players, period.
If Phil drafts Ntilikina because the Frenchie fits the stupid Triangle philosophy better or because he doesn't like flashy players, I'd go bonkers. I really hope he's not serious about hammering home his philosophy/zen whatever in today's NBA. He'd not only be in way over his head as a GM, he'd also be delusional.
frank is a good shooter, he is long, a good defender, so what if he doesnt jump out of the gym..
remembwe people killed phil for drafting kp and now people do not give him credit for drafting kp...
how many games have you watched frank? guarantee it is not more than the scouts..
What's your next move after Magic hangs up on you?
Honestly I don't know if I am excited by that.
This Knicks brass is also responsible for Early, Greek Freak's brother, and Grant....
Honestly I don't know if I am excited by that.
This Knicks brass is also responsible for Early, Greek Freak's brother, and Grant....
also responsible for kp and willy, who is a steal of a 2nd round pick..
early and greek freak were both 2nd round picks they were take a chance picks and everyone loved the early pick qhen it happened...
grant everyone loved the move when it happened, didnt work out..
you just called phil a moron if they pick frank and you know nothing about him, knicks have one of the best euro scouts in the game
Winslow would be a nice fit next to KP for another tank season this year and be part of the plan
id suggest going on youtube and watch some of franks full games, because if knicks stay at 6 or 7 he is more than likely going to be the pick..
watch the games towards the end of the season though he started the last 11 games, they went 9 and 2..
Drafting him wouldn't prevent me from going out and signing a Sergio Rodriguez type or even drafting a PG next year. I'd love to see 2 PG sets with a guy who can actually guard 2s and provide shooting off the ball.
Quote:
I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.
i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..
if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me
Forget Melo for a second. What is the precedent for trading a contract like Deng's? Big money for THREE MORE seasons to a 30+ guy who fell out of the rotation for a bottom 3 team? I cant recall anyone getting out of a contract like that.
Really, getting Deng and Russell is probably the functional equivalent of just paying Russell 23-25 million per for the next three seasons, and having the opportunity to extend him. That's not terrible for a rebuilding team, but trading Melo for that isnt a ton of value IMO. Unless you think Russell is about to make a big leap.
Quote:
In comment 13432006 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.
i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..
if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me
Forget Melo for a second. What is the precedent for trading a contract like Deng's? Big money for THREE MORE seasons to a 30+ guy who fell out of the rotation for a bottom 3 team? I cant recall anyone getting out of a contract like that.
Really, getting Deng and Russell is probably the functional equivalent of just paying Russell 23-25 million per for the next three seasons, and having the opportunity to extend him. That's not terrible for a rebuilding team, but trading Melo for that isnt a ton of value IMO. Unless you think Russell is about to make a big leap.
Or you're like me and you think Melo's value is shot. Partially due to our GM who shits on him in the public every chance he gets.
If the only asset we are getting is Russell then id say its just Russell and filler (brewer types) for Melo. Thats a solid trade for both teams, Melo still has value in this league so i dont see why we have to take on maybe the worst contract in the league just to get a guy who has underperformed his first two years in the league.
Or you're like me and you think Melo's value is shot. Partially due to our GM who shits on him in the public every chance he gets.
Melo's value is impaired but it is not negative or close to it. Not in this cap environment. Whereas I think Deng's value is so low that you might need to attach Russell just to trade Deng for no return.
If they didn't sign anyone to a multi-year deal this offseason their cap total would be at $60M? What is the cap supposed to be at? $110M being optimistic?
Warranted or not Randle would easily be looking at a max deal I would think. If for no reason other than the Nets or a similar team will give him a max offer sheet. What's his max going to be, $20-25M? I believe PG would cost about $35M. I'd imagine Clarkson is the guy they'd want to try trading first, you could probably find a taker without needing a pick. Can't you fit PG AND Randle without moving Deng/mozgov in that scenario?
Realistically, no, trading Clarkson isnt enough.
Well if they can't realistically fit Randle and george, I'd try making a play for Julius. I like him better than Russell and especially Clarkson. I think Clarksons best case scenario is becoming lou williams or Eric Gordon, and his 3 point shot isn't anywhere close at this stage. You wonder if he's near his ceiling, will be 25 next season. Not sure id take Clarkson and Deng, I think you'll be able to snag a Clarkson type player in FA in any given year.
You can run some interesting lineups with a frontcourt of Randle and KP. Randle isn't a rim protector but he's a playmaker and is decent as a 1 on 1 defender and a good rebounder for a 4 whereas KP provides the spacing/rim protection.
Drafting him wouldn't prevent me from going out and signing a Sergio Rodriguez type or even drafting a PG next year. I'd love to see 2 PG sets with a guy who can actually guard 2s and provide shooting off the ball.
i started watchimg full games of franks and it got me on his bandwagon, especially his last 11 games, he just got better..
i was on the mudiay bandwago because he was long and i thought he could be a great defender but needed to work on his jump shot...
frank has the jump shot, he can play multiple positions, just love his upside
good he should, he can get used to carrying the load
i dont think any team likes their players playing in fiba, but you have to live with it when drafting an international player, you have to let these guys play
Mean like this kid? He's from Brooklyn. Per draft net:
" 64 scoring guard with great explosiveness Good athlete with tremendous natural body strength ... Impressive combination of power and finesse Very gifted scorer. High level instincts and feel for the game ... Scores well off the dribble or catch ... Creates offense in the half court set ... Can create a scoring opportunity from scratch ... Good ball handling ability ... Doesnt waste dribbles when making a move ... Shoots well, has range out to the NBA three Physical NYC "power" guard ... Likes to use his strength and bully opponents ... Gets to the rim and finishes well with contact ... Draws a lot of fouls Very good in transition Good defender; good strength, lateral speed, and length Plays under control. Strong willed. Doesnt panic or get rattled ... Plays with great confidence. A true competitor Solid court vision and passing ability Strong rebounder for a guard "
6'4, 225. 37% from 3. Game reminds me of Waiters.
Link - ( New Window )
3 pm on nbatv
Quote:
Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.
Mean like this kid? He's from Brooklyn. Per draft net:
" 64 scoring guard with great explosiveness Good athlete with tremendous natural body strength ... Impressive combination of power and finesse Very gifted scorer. High level instincts and feel for the game ... Scores well off the dribble or catch ... Creates offense in the half court set ... Can create a scoring opportunity from scratch ... Good ball handling ability ... Doesnt waste dribbles when making a move ... Shoots well, has range out to the NBA three Physical NYC "power" guard ... Likes to use his strength and bully opponents ... Gets to the rim and finishes well with contact ... Draws a lot of fouls Very good in transition Good defender; good strength, lateral speed, and length Plays under control. Strong willed. Doesnt panic or get rattled ... Plays with great confidence. A true competitor Solid court vision and passing ability Strong rebounder for a guard "
6'4, 225. 37% from 3. Game reminds me of Waiters. Link - ( New Window )
Sounds good to me. I really think the quickest way the Knicks will turn around being a joke is getting athletic, willing defenders. That's not to say they will be contenders adding Rodney McGruder or Rawle Alkins types but defensive effort is contagious and willing and hungry defenders can really change the "culture" of a team.
"He gets under your skin, teammate Dion Waiters said. I think sometimes in this league people dont understand that its about how hard you go. Rod, they probably overlook him coming into the game. But you know on that night that hes going to make you work. He doesnt care who you are.
Hes like the heart and soul of our team, Waiters said of McGruder. He goes extremely hard and he guards the best players and he makes them work. Tonight Paul George probably just wasnt up for that or ready for that. Thats just who Rodney is and how he plays. You have to respect that man.
Quote:
Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?
3 pm on nbatv
If this was the NFL, it would get a 2 hour pre-flip show.
based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..
trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too
I want out, Patrick Ewing said.
This was July 1991, and Ewings frustrations had boiled and bubbled far longer than Kristaps Porzingis have. Ewing already had put in six hard years at the Garden, already had won a playoff series, already had initiated what would become a remarkable rivalry with the Bulls. And he already had been turned on by Knicks fans, who famously showered the Garden floor with life-sized posters.
Ewing had tried to get the NBA to void the four remaining years of his contract, he was so fed up with what he saw happening with the Knicks. In his mind, he already had been traded. Now, in a hotel room in Washington, D.C., he hoped to make that abundantly clear to his visitor, a man whose impressive rsum had thus far left Ewing unmoved.
I want you to think about something, Pat Riley told Ewing that day nearly 26 years ago. I want you to close your eyes and think of a championship parade on Broadway and what that would mean to New York City and what that would mean to you.
Link - ( New Window )
Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?
Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.
The source is a moron which is why I even asked. But he makes it sound like it was clearly stated during the presser
"Tommy Dee @ThomasCDee 11m11 minutes ago
More
So many gems 💎 from Phil's press conference. Anyone else pick up Melo has limited ISOs spelled out in his contract? #knicks"
0% chance of that being real
Quote:
into a functional basketball organization.
based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..
trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too
I dont think Phil was all that clear about a youth movement. I think there is a good chance he brings in a vet, Rose or otherwise, to be the #1 option. I didnt hear anything that suggested that Phil was willing to eat a bad year or 3 to come out better on the other side.
I think his plan is this: The Triangle. As an offense and as a way of life. I think he's more than a little nutty when it comes to the Triangle. And Im not one of these people hung up on the Triangle. We suck because we (1) dont defend, (2) dont have the athletes to defense, and (3) had ball stoppers as our 1, 2, and 3 options (yeah, KP could pass more). The lack of ball movement wasnt a Triangle issue -- it was a "this is who Melo and Rose are" issue.
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?
0% chance of that being real
And it absolutely wasnt said at the presser
Quote:
into a functional basketball organization.
based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..
trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too
Heh, yeah, that part is clear. I wasn't just talking about the offseason moves. He's been pretty adept and making changes in the offseason. How does he turn the roster and organization into something that works together and is functional. Right now, from Phil, to coaching, to the players, it's complete dysfunction junction.
My one hope when Phil came was that he could get the entire organization (personnel, players, coaches) on the same page, like the successful NBA teams around the league. He's been a part of that throughout his career. Instead, he's shown that he's a destabilizing force everywhere.
you dont like phil jackson? fine but you were the one who said you wanted to run the triangle more and if it is about carmelo grow up...
Quote:
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
into a functional basketball organization.
based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..
trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too
Heh, yeah, that part is clear. I wasn't just talking about the offseason moves. He's been pretty adept and making changes in the offseason. How does he turn the roster and organization into something that works together and is functional. Right now, from Phil, to coaching, to the players, it's complete dysfunction junction.
My one hope when Phil came was that he could get the entire organization (personnel, players, coaches) on the same page, like the successful NBA teams around the league. He's been a part of that throughout his career. Instead, he's shown that he's a destabilizing force everywhere.
I think going younger will help the "culture" if knicks have the exact same record but have their pick and a young team the cukture is going to be completely different..
you will be able to see the future, if he goes vet route again it will be frustrating
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?
Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.
The source is a moron which is why I even asked. But he makes it sound like it was clearly stated during the presser
"Tommy Dee @ThomasCDee 11m11 minutes ago
More
So many gems 💎 from Phil's press conference. Anyone else pick up Melo has limited ISOs spelled out in his contract? #knicks"
There isn't a bigger clown out there than Tommy Dee. Same level as incarcerated Bob.
Just conjecture, but the other sports teams have more of a split. Like Yankees/mets split baseball, Giants/Jets fans split football, etc.
Quote:
really strange but of my 4 "teams" the Knicks seem to have the highest % of homer fans/bloggers. Not really sure why?
Just conjecture, but the other sports teams have more of a split. Like Yankees/mets split baseball, Giants/Jets fans split football, etc.
Makes sense. I just see 2 groups of people on twitter 1. That somehow love Tommy Dee and subscribe to some weird idea that the Knicks are fine but it's the media that's at fault. Even quasi celebrity John Henson is a "Tommy Dee" guy. and the other group fights with Tommy Dee and hates him lol
Quote:
In comment 13432418 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really strange but of my 4 "teams" the Knicks seem to have the highest % of homer fans/bloggers. Not really sure why?
Just conjecture, but the other sports teams have more of a split. Like Yankees/mets split baseball, Giants/Jets fans split football, etc.
Makes sense. I just see 2 groups of people on twitter 1. That somehow love Tommy Dee and subscribe to some weird idea that the Knicks are fine but it's the media that's at fault. Even quasi celebrity John Henson is a "Tommy Dee" guy. and the other group fights with Tommy Dee and hates him lol
i hate tommy dee and i am definitely a homer lol
More
Kevin Pelton Retweeted Casey Holdahl
Sadly, not a coin flip at all. It's a miniature version of the draft lottery with ping-pong balls.
Xavier v Arizona
Will the Knicks select Arizona's Lauri Markkanen in the NBA Draft? (Ezra Shaw | Getty Images)
Print Email Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com By Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on April 17, 2017 at 1:00 PM, updated April 17, 2017 at 1:14 PM
If this mock draft comes to fruition, the Knicks would be a nightmare for opposing defenses to handle--regardless of how the Carmelo Anthony saga plays out.
In CBS Sports' latest mock, the Knicks landed Arizona big man Lauri Markkanen with the No. 7 overall pick.
Here's what the mock said about the pick of a player that could pair with Kristaps Porzingis to give New York a pair of big front-court players with three-point range.
Markkanen is a modern-day stretch-4 who shot 42.3 percent from 3-point range this season. It's hard to imagine him slipping outside of the top 10.
The mock's top-10 picks looked like this.
1. Boston Celtics (via Nets): Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
2. Phoenix Suns: Josh Jackson, SF, Kansas
3. Los Angeles Lakers: Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
4. Sixers: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, North Carolina State
5. Orlando Magic: Malik Monk, PG, Kentucky
6. Minnesota Timberwolves: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke
7. Knicks: Markkanen
8. Sacramento Kings: Jonathan Isaac, SF, Florida State
9. Dallas Mavericks: De'Aaron Fox, PG, Kentucky
10. Sacramento Kings: Justin Jackson, SF, North Carolina
Link - ( New Window )
It would make the offense unstoppable with a solid PG and shooters at the wing. But is it worth it at the expense of a horrible defensive/rebounding team?
Look at the nuggets. They had the most efficient offense in the NBA but look how far that took them. They have solid wing defenders too in harris and Chandler. Much better rebounding that you can ever hope to expect from a KP/markannen tandem.
I'd rather have Isaac at that point. Better rebounder/defender/playmaker at the cost of 2 inches height and some shooting.
Xavier v Arizona
Will the Knicks select Arizona's Lauri Markkanen in the NBA Draft? (Ezra Shaw | Getty Images)
Print Email Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com By Joe Giglio | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on April 17, 2017 at 1:00 PM, updated April 17, 2017 at 1:14 PM
If this mock draft comes to fruition, the Knicks would be a nightmare for opposing defenses to handle--regardless of how the Carmelo Anthony saga plays out.
In CBS Sports' latest mock, the Knicks landed Arizona big man Lauri Markkanen with the No. 7 overall pick.
Here's what the mock said about the pick of a player that could pair with Kristaps Porzingis to give New York a pair of big front-court players with three-point range.
Markkanen is a modern-day stretch-4 who shot 42.3 percent from 3-point range this season. It's hard to imagine him slipping outside of the top 10.
The mock's top-10 picks looked like this.
1. Boston Celtics (via Nets): Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
2. Phoenix Suns: Josh Jackson, SF, Kansas
3. Los Angeles Lakers: Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
4. Sixers: Dennis Smith Jr., PG, North Carolina State
5. Orlando Magic: Malik Monk, PG, Kentucky
6. Minnesota Timberwolves: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke
7. Knicks: Markkanen
8. Sacramento Kings: Jonathan Isaac, SF, Florida State
9. Dallas Mavericks: De'Aaron Fox, PG, Kentucky
10. Sacramento Kings: Justin Jackson, SF, North Carolina Link - ( New Window )
I really don't like a frontcourt of Markannen and KP
Can he even guard 4s? He's a 3 inch taller version of Ryan anderson in my eyes. Comparing him to KP is really off base because he's not nearly as fluid of an athlete or ball handler as KP.
The Ryan Anderson comp isn't a bad thing; Andersons biggest weakness is his size and being 7', markannen I don't think will be as much of a liability. I just don't see him being a cornerstone piece. You put him next to KAT and wonders will happen.
Oh fuck. Well, hopefully the Knicks are so toxic he'll stay away. Justin seemed pretty happy here though.
Quote:
the Knicks I'd be pretty bummed passing on Isaac for Markkanen. At least with Isaac you could conceivably run Isaac/KP/Willy out there together. Markkanen can't guard 3's.
Can he even guard 4s? He's a 3 inch taller version of Ryan anderson in my eyes. Comparing him to KP is really off base because he's not nearly as fluid of an athlete or ball handler as KP.
The Ryan Anderson comp isn't a bad thing; Andersons biggest weakness is his size and being 7', markannen I don't think will be as much of a liability. I just don't see him being a cornerstone piece. You put him next to KAT and wonders will happen.
I really just meant some people on here insist Isaac will end up at the 4. That may or may not be true but it's 100% within the realm of possibility you can run Isaac/KP/Willy out there together. Markannen on the court means one of Willy or KP is sitting.
I have a feeling like it is the plan. I have heard Phil really likes both Holidays and he definitely fits as a "triangle PG', whatever that even means. If so we are probably looking at 55 million tied up between Holiday brothers and Noah the next 3 years. So Knicks it hurts.
july 4th or 5th comes around and we will see rose sign somewhere and we will all be happy, then next day knicks sign holiday to a 100 million dollar deal
july 4th or 5th comes around and we will see rose sign somewhere and we will all be happy, then next day knicks sign holiday to a 100 million dollar deal
Sounds about right but you forgot Justin Jackson as our pick because of the triangle fit.
Quote:
today knicks will win coin toss, then come lottery night minnesota will get into top 3..
july 4th or 5th comes around and we will see rose sign somewhere and we will all be happy, then next day knicks sign holiday to a 100 million dollar deal
Sounds about right but you forgot Justin Jackson as our pick because of the triangle fit.
i am hoping for 1 good thing this off seasons
problem is holiday fots next to most of the point guards in the knicks range..
I don't understand why justin would just go to NO. Probably the ONLY team he'd start for right off the bat. He's a solid player and the Pelicans need shooting in the worst way.
Only major knock is injury history.
They can't use the MLE?
Only major knock is injury history.
First of all he's 27 for Knicks purposes, ALWAYS hurt... every season for the past 4 and will get max money. You really see him as a max money player? Where is this path to being really good giving the Holiday brothers huge money?
Only major knock is injury history.
The whole giving him 4 years $120M to keep the Knicks just out of range of the top lottery picks part of it.
Mike Conley, a significantly better player, got 30 million.
I bet he gets what Noah gets.
Quote:
..
They can't use the MLE?
i mean i guess they could, sign holiday to big deal then sign his brother to mle but thats all they would be able to do
Mike Conley, a significantly better player, got 30 million.
I bet he gets what Noah gets.
You are mistaken.
Jeff Teague is expected to get $22-25M a year. Holiday is a substantial step up from Teague. Pelicans will offer him 5 years $150M. You can book that. It's up to Holiday whether he will take that or a max elsewhere.
Quote:
In comment 13432640 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..
They can't use the MLE?
i mean i guess they could, sign holiday to big deal then sign his brother to mle but thats all they would be able to do
Well what else are they to do? There isn't a clear solution for NO. Trading cousins is their best way out of that mess but good luck with the owner approving that.
Maybe not, but he's a few years younger and if the Pelicans don't retain him they can't really replace him because they are damn near capped out as is. So I think Holiday is the most likely candidate to get the 5 year max out of the PG crop.
The Pels are easy to forget, but they're a dynamic guard and the bigs gelling away from being a title contender.
Presumably if a team (like the Knicks) are sniping Jrue from his existing team it comes with a Justin overpay. Why else would they choose one location over another? Especially the Knicks. You could come up with a narrative where Jrue leaves some money on the table because team X gave Justin the biggest offer.
Draft monk and have Jrue guard 2s.
I would however look at him for 4/72 like Noah got. He's a really talented two way player.
I would however look at him for 4/72 like Noah got. He's a really talented two way player.
If Noah's contract is the baseline for evaluating contracts JUSTIN Holiday's agent can run around the league demanding a max for him.
Interesting since they have no idea where they are picking, or how many picks they have in the top 7. 53% chance they get LA's pick, and if they do it is likely 4-5. 38% chance they move into the top 3. And obviously, those are linked -- if PHI moves up, it means the Lakers are more likely to lose the pick.
Philly could easily be looking at Fultz or Ball top 3 and Tatum, Monk, Isaac, Markkanen, Fox, Smith with the 4-5 pick. Hard to believe they have definitive plans before the lotto.
If things work out right for the Sixers, they could get very good very quickly. Essentially they just need Embiid to be healthy and Simmons to be healthy/ pan out. BIG ifs though.
If they get the Lakers pick, they could also go big game hunting for a Butler or George.
Holiday
Simmons
George or Butler
Saric
Embiid
That's a really good 5 and they could easily have a good bench with Covington, Okafor, Holmes etc.
But don't worry Knicks fans! Phil loves how Ronny Baker fights through screens! And Kuz and Holiday!! Lol
If that happens, why not just go all out and get Jimmy Butler? Especially if they land the Lakers pick. Toss in Okafor, Stuaskas and Anderson, I think Chicago would do that in a heartbeat.
Monk/TJ
Holiday/Luwawu
Butler/Covington
Simmons/Saric
Embiid/Holmes
Extra shady given the fact Holiday once played for them + whatever is causing NO to believe he's leaving.
I'm not sure...wouldn't you rather take one of the PGs then give Holiday a near-max? They will have to make a decision on Embiid after next season and I don't think they'd let him walk nor do I think they trade him for marginal pieces (Hinkie probably would've though).
Quote:
and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.
I'm not sure...wouldn't you rather take one of the PGs then give Holiday a near-max? They will have to make a decision on Embiid after next season and I don't think they'd let him walk nor do I think they trade him for marginal pieces (Hinkie probably would've though).
But my point is that if they pass on a PG with two picks, it means they have some reason to feel assured that Teague or Jrue or Hill is signing there. I.e. tampering.
Otherwise how can they come out of that draft without a PG, merely with the hope that a PG will sign with them. I think they're still at least one offseason away from being a buzzy team for UFAs. Guys need to play, together, for 70+ games first. Embiid and Simmons have combined to miss 297 of 328 games since they were drafted.
How would you rank being all of the "rebuilding" lotto teams for the future? If the Butler/Holiday scenario happens, here is mine:
1.) Philly
2.) Milwaukee
3.) MIN
4.) PHO
5.) NYK
6.) SAC
7.) LAL
8.) Orlando
9.) Dallas
Quote:
In comment 13432775 Deej said:
Quote:
and dont draft a PG, it's basically evidence of tampering. They'd have to have a deal in place to pass on a PG with two top 7 picks in this draft.
I'm not sure...wouldn't you rather take one of the PGs then give Holiday a near-max? They will have to make a decision on Embiid after next season and I don't think they'd let him walk nor do I think they trade him for marginal pieces (Hinkie probably would've though).
But my point is that if they pass on a PG with two picks, it means they have some reason to feel assured that Teague or Jrue or Hill is signing there. I.e. tampering.
Otherwise how can they come out of that draft without a PG, merely with the hope that a PG will sign with them. I think they're still at least one offseason away from being a buzzy team for UFAs. Guys need to play, together, for 70+ games first. Embiid and Simmons have combined to miss 297 of 328 games since they were drafted.
Oh no I see what you are saying. I was more agreeing with your other point, how can Philly have a set plan for the offseason without knowing how their picks end up?
Adding Holiday and Butler would certainly expedite the winning process. They may not be able to take down Cleveland year 1 together but that's a pretty damn good blueprint for how to do it.
I'm not so sure I don't play Embiid like 15-20 minutes a night off the bench, continuing to rest him on back to backs. Holmes isn't Embiid but I do think he's one of the top young centers in the game still.
Save Embiid for the conference finals, not even the playoffs.
Would we be? I'm not so sure I would. Not unless we got a good deal to trade out and pick him in the back of the lottery.
Call me greedy but I'd rather gamble on a prospect with perennial all star/all NBA potential. Yes, even picking at 6-7. It is a deep draft. Look back to last year (very shitty draft) the Bucks got Maker at 10. Too early to claim what he'll be but he at least gives you hope. Skal was taken late 1st.
Look at the 2015 draft (more comparable). Turner and Booker were taken #10 or later.
2014: Saric, Lavine, Nurkic and Harris all taken after 10.
2013: McCollum, Giannis and Gobert taken 10 or after.
Etc, etc.
Is Jrue Holiday a "fair" expectation from a top 6-7 pick? Certainly. But it's going to take more than getting about "fair market" value out of these next few drafts to get this franchise on track.
Jrue Holiday paired with Anthony Davis wasn't enough to get the Pelicans "stoked" after all these years. Fair or unfair, I'm going to need a lot more than a Jrue Holiday to get stoked to be quite honest.
The Paul Georges, Klay Thompsons, Steph Currys, Kawhi, Butler, Giannis, etc. show up more often than not. It may be unlikely but it's not a stretch that a player of that caliber will be available when the Knicks pick.
Sorry if thats a spoiler.
do you know the odds are less than 3 percent 2 teams leap the knicks let alone 3
Quote:
Knicks will pick 7th if the lotto holds. If a team 8th or higher nabs a top 3 pick, Knicks fall to 8th. If 2 teams leap, 9th. 3 teams, 10th.
do you know the odds are less than 3 percent 2 teams leap the knicks let alone 3
It's the Knicks. I wouldn't expect anything differently
Come the fuck on.
ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there
Quote:
If he's as good as you all say he is, he'll probably be picked before us
ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there
Does Markannen really belong on that list?
You forgot they picked two fucking point guards in the lottery, which led to the Warriors taking a PG by the name of Stephen Curry, who wanted to go to the Knicks and was not interested in the Warriors.
Speaking of which...
Trade down a possibility if NY picks 7-9?
Few possibilities:
Winslow and Miami's pick (14) for 7?
Andre Drummond straight up for the pick?
Drummond I would think about... especially if they take like Noah back.
I bet they go Monk or Markennen
ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there
Does Markannen really belong on that list?
I wouldn't put him there. I was high on Markannen in December/January, but far less so now. He's a terrific shooter who could develop a nice post game too, but he's not good at anything else. No point in putting him next to KP. Collins would be a better fit than Markannen. I'd replace Markannen's name with Tatum.
Quote:
ball, fulz jackson, fox, monk, smith, isaac, markannen, frank...1 of them will be there
Does Markannen really belong on that list?
I wouldn't put him there. I was high on Markannen in December/January, but far less so now. He's a terrific shooter who could develop a nice post game too, but he's not good at anything else. No point in putting him next to KP. Collins would be a better fit than Markannen. I'd replace Markannen's name with Tatum.
thats who i forgot
What was the Knicks record the past month of the season? Ill answer for you. IT was terrible. They lost a shit load of games down the stretch. So did other teams.
Knicks suck and forever will suck but their W/L record and draft opportunity is one of the few things they haven't fucked up lately. They still suck though. Forever and ever.
monk is a total wild card, will a team take a chance on him? will the sixers take him top 5?
I'd put Monk last among those three, but I'd be happy with any of those guys. I think Smith is going to be very, very good.
Isnt Monk an inch shorter than Kobe's actual height?
agreed
But being arm chair analysts is half the fun. And I'm not sure Phil has earned the trust that some other GMs have.
Beautifully said.
There was a consensus "3" in 2015. Last year, there was a top 2, then a "consensus 5" after those 2. So far, it looks like all the best prospects were outside that crop completely (Brogdon, Maker and Chriss).
Collins can easily be one of those helium guys. I can see him being pit directly against Markannen because he can rebound and play defense as well as having promise for a 3 point shot.
Now we're setting our sights on a mystery man from France, which brings back memories of, well, I won't even say the name.
However I was a Mudiay guy and wanted him at 4. I liked KP over Russell and Okafor though. My rankings were
1.) Towns
2.) Mudiauy
3.) KP
Otherwise you could do something like Mirotic contract + like grant and Valentine.
id do their first, zipser, valentine and payne
I read an article earlier today in which a guy was trying to talk up among others, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Jerian Grant, who're now a combined 4-23 from the field in the postseason. I'm so fed up with these horseshit writers. I don't give a shit what Robin Lopez is doing anymore.