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NFT: Knicks Chat

DanMetroMan : 4/17/2017 9:37 am

-Asked this the other day but who says no to Melo for Bosh's contract and the Heat's pick?

-Andrew Lynch of Fox Sports has a dumb 6 step plan to fixing the Knicks

Fire Phil
Snipe Ujiri (who he claims Dolan has wanted to hire before, which actually was a rare positive thing from Dolan), or Sam Hinkie
Keep Hornacek
Sign Chris Paul and keep Melo

Chris Paul is a first ballot HOFer but just silly. I'd LOVE to dump Phil for Ujiri but that's not happening, at least not this year.

-Berman claims the only reason Jackson hired Hornacek over Rambis was because the younger Hornacek would likely relate to players better... Hornacek is about to be 54, Rambis is 59. This story seems highly, highly unlikely.

-Berman The 18-year-old point guard Frank Ntilikina, who played in the French League for LNB Pro A and is a projected lottery pick, was videotaped working out in the Carmelo Anthony-owned gym in midtown Manhattan. The Knicks scouted the 6-5 prospect in France. Ntilikina should be around if the Knicks pick around sixth or seventh. Draft workouts can begin in late April.
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I want Clarkson, Ingram, Russell and a 1st for Melo  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:16 pm : link
Plus Courtney Lee, a 2nd round pick and Oquinn
So if the euro scout or clarence gaines  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:17 pm : link
says frank is the best player on the board and phil takes him, hoe are you gojng to say it is a bad pick?

frank is a good shooter, he is long, a good defender, so what if he doesnt jump out of the gym..

remembwe people killed phil for drafting kp and now people do not give him credit for drafting kp...

how many games have you watched frank? guarantee it is not more than the scouts..
That would be similar to what we gave up to get Melo  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:18 pm : link
Would be an excellent or mediocre trade for both teams
just becauss you know who fox or smith are  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:20 pm : link
doesnt make them better picks
RE: I want Clarkson, Ingram, Russell and a 1st for Melo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 11:22 pm : link
In comment 13432056 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
I want Clarkson, Ingram, Russell and a 1st for Melo



What's your next move after Magic hangs up on you?
Obviously I haven't watched any of Frank's game except for  
Jim in Hoboken : 4/17/2017 11:23 pm : link
highlights. To me his game resembles Schroder's. Since he's longer he may play better defense as well.

Honestly I don't know if I am excited by that.

This Knicks brass is also responsible for Early, Greek Freak's brother, and Grant....
RE: Obviously I haven't watched any of Frank's game except for  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13432061 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
highlights. To me his game resembles Schroder's. Since he's longer he may play better defense as well.

Honestly I don't know if I am excited by that.

This Knicks brass is also responsible for Early, Greek Freak's brother, and Grant....


also responsible for kp and willy, who is a steal of a 2nd round pick..

early and greek freak were both 2nd round picks they were take a chance picks and everyone loved the early pick qhen it happened...

grant everyone loved the move when it happened, didnt work out..

you just called phil a moron if they pick frank and you know nothing about him, knicks have one of the best euro scouts in the game
Well, let's wait to see whom he actually picks first, no sense  
Jim in Hoboken : 4/17/2017 11:32 pm : link
debating what he's going to do. Even the Oracle himself Gaines probably doesn't know yet.

Melo to Miami for Winslow makes sense if all else fails  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:35 pm : link
Or Winslow and a first if possible

Winslow would be a nice fit next to KP for another tank season this year and be part of the plan
RE: Well, let's wait to see whom he actually picks first, no sense  
nygiants16 : 4/17/2017 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13432070 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
debating what he's going to do. Even the Oracle himself Gaines probably doesn't know yet.


id suggest going on youtube and watch some of franks full games, because if knicks stay at 6 or 7 he is more than likely going to be the pick..

watch the games towards the end of the season though he started the last 11 games, they went 9 and 2..
Early was a 2nd rd flyer on a guy thought to have maybe some  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 11:35 pm : link
late first round talent. Not sure that really counts here.

Melo for Robin Lopez? Plus a first?  
DennyInDenville : 4/17/2017 11:36 pm : link
That's another possibility
Wouldn't stake my claim  
giantsfan44ab : 4/17/2017 11:43 pm : link
on the French bandwagon like Jon and ny16 just yet, but I've been saying you don't think he's a 1? All of his playmaking skills look like a plus as a 2 guard.

Drafting him wouldn't prevent me from going out and signing a Sergio Rodriguez type or even drafting a PG next year. I'd love to see 2 PG sets with a guy who can actually guard 2s and provide shooting off the ball.
I think Ball and Frank  
Phil in LA : 4/17/2017 11:49 pm : link
are the best options for turning KP and Willy into what they can be. I like Fultz and Dennis, also, but worry about Fox.
RE: RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Deej : 4/18/2017 7:45 am : link
In comment 13432010 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432006 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.



i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..

if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me


Forget Melo for a second. What is the precedent for trading a contract like Deng's? Big money for THREE MORE seasons to a 30+ guy who fell out of the rotation for a bottom 3 team? I cant recall anyone getting out of a contract like that.

Really, getting Deng and Russell is probably the functional equivalent of just paying Russell 23-25 million per for the next three seasons, and having the opportunity to extend him. That's not terrible for a rebuilding team, but trading Melo for that isnt a ton of value IMO. Unless you think Russell is about to make a big leap.
RE: RE: RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 7:48 am : link
In comment 13432150 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13432010 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13432006 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


I really think a Russell/Ingram + Deng + Zubac combo could be on the table.



i dont think lakers part with zubac or ingram..

if lakers get ball i could see russell and deng for melo and thats fine with me



Forget Melo for a second. What is the precedent for trading a contract like Deng's? Big money for THREE MORE seasons to a 30+ guy who fell out of the rotation for a bottom 3 team? I cant recall anyone getting out of a contract like that.

Really, getting Deng and Russell is probably the functional equivalent of just paying Russell 23-25 million per for the next three seasons, and having the opportunity to extend him. That's not terrible for a rebuilding team, but trading Melo for that isnt a ton of value IMO. Unless you think Russell is about to make a big leap.


Or you're like me and you think Melo's value is shot. Partially due to our GM who shits on him in the public every chance he gets.
I dont like Russell enough to take on Deng...  
Italianju : 4/18/2017 7:58 am : link
that contract is just too horrible. I know capspace isnt what it used to be but i still dont want to suck up so much of it on a Deng type player. Id do it for Ingram (Lakers arent trading him but id do it) or if the lakers sent more then just russell back to us (Zubac, Picks, nance?,clarkson?, etc..) Now i dont think the lakers do that, but thats what id want if we are taking back Deng.

If the only asset we are getting is Russell then id say its just Russell and filler (brewer types) for Melo. Thats a solid trade for both teams, Melo still has value in this league so i dont see why we have to take on maybe the worst contract in the league just to get a guy who has underperformed his first two years in the league.
RE: RE: RE: RE: yeah the lakers make a ton of sense.  
Deej : 4/18/2017 7:59 am : link
In comment 13432151 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:



Or you're like me and you think Melo's value is shot. Partially due to our GM who shits on him in the public every chance he gets.


Melo's value is impaired but it is not negative or close to it. Not in this cap environment. Whereas I think Deng's value is so low that you might need to attach Russell just to trade Deng for no return.
Is Julius Randle directly  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 8:05 am : link
inhibiting the Lakers ability to sign PG in 2018?

If they didn't sign anyone to a multi-year deal this offseason their cap total would be at $60M? What is the cap supposed to be at? $110M being optimistic?

Warranted or not Randle would easily be looking at a max deal I would think. If for no reason other than the Nets or a similar team will give him a max offer sheet. What's his max going to be, $20-25M? I believe PG would cost about $35M. I'd imagine Clarkson is the guy they'd want to try trading first, you could probably find a taker without needing a pick. Can't you fit PG AND Randle without moving Deng/mozgov in that scenario?
Clarkson is interesting...  
Italianju : 4/18/2017 8:15 am : link
its really hard to get a read on him. The lakers minutes/rotation has been all over the place the last 2 years but whenever he has got consistent time he has played well. I wouldnt be thrilled with him as the headliner of a deal, but if the best we could do was Clarkson, Nance, Rockets first, and maybe a future first i wouldnt hate it. Not sure the Lakers would throw in a future first though and id like it a lot less without that, especially with the Rockets pick being so late.
Summer 2018  
Deej : 4/18/2017 8:19 am : link
cap is expected to be 103 million. Was adjusted down. Randle's max would be 26 million, PG 31 million. Those two contracts, Deng, Moz, Russell and Ingram already have you over 103 million. Plus you have cap holds (6 million?), and you lose Nance and Clarkson for no salary coming back, plus there is no room for your 2017 or 2018 #1 pick.

Realistically, no, trading Clarkson isnt enough.
Still cant believe...  
Italianju : 4/18/2017 8:23 am : link
the lakers dumped 35 mill a year into deng/moz for 4 years. What the hell were they thinking. Why sign them for so long. Neither even plays for them and now they will end up dumping some assets just to get rid of those deals at some point.
Ah yes forgot about the pick  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 8:31 am : link
Well they'd only have a pick in one of those years but they have the Rockets pick this year which might add a million or two.

Well if they can't realistically fit Randle and george, I'd try making a play for Julius. I like him better than Russell and especially Clarkson. I think Clarksons best case scenario is becoming lou williams or Eric Gordon, and his 3 point shot isn't anywhere close at this stage. You wonder if he's near his ceiling, will be 25 next season. Not sure id take Clarkson and Deng, I think you'll be able to snag a Clarkson type player in FA in any given year.

You can run some interesting lineups with a frontcourt of Randle and KP. Randle isn't a rim protector but he's a playmaker and is decent as a 1 on 1 defender and a good rebounder for a 4 whereas KP provides the spacing/rim protection.
RE: Wouldn't stake my claim  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13432079 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
on the French bandwagon like Jon and ny16 just yet, but I've been saying you don't think he's a 1? All of his playmaking skills look like a plus as a 2 guard.

Drafting him wouldn't prevent me from going out and signing a Sergio Rodriguez type or even drafting a PG next year. I'd love to see 2 PG sets with a guy who can actually guard 2s and provide shooting off the ball.


i started watchimg full games of franks and it got me on his bandwagon, especially his last 11 games, he just got better..

i was on the mudiay bandwago because he was long and i thought he could be a great defender but needed to work on his jump shot...

frank has the jump shot, he can play multiple positions, just love his upside
Frank's  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 9:18 am : link
also a full year younger than Fox and Smith.
KP  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 9:22 am : link
likely playing for Latvia this summer in the FIBA Eurobasket
RE: KP  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:23 am : link
In comment 13432239 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
likely playing for Latvia this summer in the FIBA Eurobasket


good he should, he can get used to carrying the load
this whole melo and lala thing  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:24 am : link
it makes sense now that melo was so hellbent on trying to stay in new york, he was trying to fix his marriage
The  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 9:27 am : link
Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.
Beer  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 9:29 am : link
says the Knicks prefer KP not play but he said he "absolutely" intends on playing.
RE: Beer  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 9:36 am : link
In comment 13432254 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says the Knicks prefer KP not play but he said he "absolutely" intends on playing.


i dont think any team likes their players playing in fiba, but you have to live with it when drafting an international player, you have to let these guys play
I thought I read somewhere  
Carl in CT : 4/18/2017 9:44 am : link
Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?
RE: The  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13432250 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.


Mean like this kid? He's from Brooklyn. Per draft net:

" 64 scoring guard with great explosiveness Good athlete with tremendous natural body strength ... Impressive combination of power and finesse Very gifted scorer. High level instincts and feel for the game ... Scores well off the dribble or catch ... Creates offense in the half court set ... Can create a scoring opportunity from scratch ... Good ball handling ability ... Doesnt waste dribbles when making a move ... Shoots well, has range out to the NBA three Physical NYC "power" guard ... Likes to use his strength and bully opponents ... Gets to the rim and finishes well with contact ... Draws a lot of fouls Very good in transition Good defender; good strength, lateral speed, and length Plays under control. Strong willed. Doesnt panic or get rattled ... Plays with great confidence. A true competitor Solid court vision and passing ability Strong rebounder for a guard "

6'4, 225. 37% from 3. Game reminds me of Waiters.
Link - ( New Window )
Alkins is 19, projected to go 46th  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 9:50 am : link
.
RE: I thought I read somewhere  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13432275 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?


3 pm on nbatv
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13432277 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13432250 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Knicks should be looking for guys like the 2017 Heat find Rodney McGruder. He gets rave reviews for his defensive effort, how he's a pest, in your face, never backs down. Obviously not McGruder himself (why would the Heat give him up) but we should be eyeing guys like this who maybe haven't been given a fair shot.



Mean like this kid? He's from Brooklyn. Per draft net:

" 64 scoring guard with great explosiveness Good athlete with tremendous natural body strength ... Impressive combination of power and finesse Very gifted scorer. High level instincts and feel for the game ... Scores well off the dribble or catch ... Creates offense in the half court set ... Can create a scoring opportunity from scratch ... Good ball handling ability ... Doesnt waste dribbles when making a move ... Shoots well, has range out to the NBA three Physical NYC "power" guard ... Likes to use his strength and bully opponents ... Gets to the rim and finishes well with contact ... Draws a lot of fouls Very good in transition Good defender; good strength, lateral speed, and length Plays under control. Strong willed. Doesnt panic or get rattled ... Plays with great confidence. A true competitor Solid court vision and passing ability Strong rebounder for a guard "

6'4, 225. 37% from 3. Game reminds me of Waiters. Link - ( New Window )


Sounds good to me. I really think the quickest way the Knicks will turn around being a joke is getting athletic, willing defenders. That's not to say they will be contenders adding Rodney McGruder or Rawle Alkins types but defensive effort is contagious and willing and hungry defenders can really change the "culture" of a team.


"He gets under your skin, teammate Dion Waiters said. I think sometimes in this league people dont understand that its about how hard you go. Rod, they probably overlook him coming into the game. But you know on that night that hes going to make you work. He doesnt care who you are.

Hes like the heart and soul of our team, Waiters said of McGruder. He goes extremely hard and he guards the best players and he makes them work. Tonight Paul George probably just wasnt up for that or ready for that. Thats just who Rodney is and how he plays. You have to respect that man.
RE: RE: I thought I read somewhere  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13432316 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432275 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Today is coin flip day. Confirmed?



3 pm on nbatv


If this was the NFL, it would get a 2 hour pre-flip show.
I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
Heisenberg : 4/18/2017 10:31 am : link
into a functional basketball organization.
So we need Chicago To lose to Boston  
giantsfan44ab : 4/18/2017 10:38 am : link
To get even a semi-reasonable 2nd rounder right?
It's  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 10:38 am : link
going to be so Knicks when the win the coinflip, and then the Wolves jump into the top 3
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:39 am : link
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?
RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
into a functional basketball organization.


based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too

Vaccaro  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:40 am : link
He had grown tired of New York, but he had really grown weary of the Knicks, and of Madison Square Garden, the corporate cartoon that kept letting him down. Hed had enough.

I want out, Patrick Ewing said.

This was July 1991, and Ewings frustrations had boiled and bubbled far longer than Kristaps Porzingis have. Ewing already had put in six hard years at the Garden, already had won a playoff series, already had initiated what would become a remarkable rivalry with the Bulls. And he already had been turned on by Knicks fans, who famously showered the Garden floor with life-sized posters.

Ewing had tried to get the NBA to void the four remaining years of his contract, he was so fed up with what he saw happening with the Knicks. In his mind, he already had been traded. Now, in a hotel room in Washington, D.C., he hoped to make that abundantly clear to his visitor, a man whose impressive rsum had thus far left Ewing unmoved.

I want you to think about something, Pat Riley told Ewing that day nearly 26 years ago. I want you to close your eyes and think of a championship parade on Broadway and what that would mean to New York City and what that would mean to you.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Melo  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?


Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.
RE: RE: Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/18/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13432370 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?



Where did you hear that? Sounds like a joke.



The source is a moron which is why I even asked. But he makes it sound like it was clearly stated during the presser

"Tommy Dee‏ @ThomasCDee 11m11 minutes ago
More
So many gems 💎 from Phil's press conference. Anyone else pick up Melo has limited ISOs spelled out in his contract? #knicks"
RE: Melo  
Jon in NYC : 4/18/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?


0% chance of that being real
RE: RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13432366 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


into a functional basketball organization.



based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too


I dont think Phil was all that clear about a youth movement. I think there is a good chance he brings in a vet, Rose or otherwise, to be the #1 option. I didnt hear anything that suggested that Phil was willing to eat a bad year or 3 to come out better on the other side.

I think his plan is this: The Triangle. As an offense and as a way of life. I think he's more than a little nutty when it comes to the Triangle. And Im not one of these people hung up on the Triangle. We suck because we (1) dont defend, (2) dont have the athletes to defense, and (3) had ball stoppers as our 1, 2, and 3 options (yeah, KP could pass more). The lack of ball movement wasnt a Triangle issue -- it was a "this is who Melo and Rose are" issue.
RE: RE: Melo  
Deej : 4/18/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13432372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13432365 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has it written into his contract how many ISO's the Knicks run for him? Is that real?



0% chance of that being real


And it absolutely wasnt said at the presser
RE: RE: I wonder what Phil's plan is to turn this shit show  
Heisenberg : 4/18/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13432366 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13432354 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


into a functional basketball organization.



based on phils press conference, build around porzingis and go young..

trade melo and if they can get anything for lee probably trade him too


Heh, yeah, that part is clear. I wasn't just talking about the offseason moves. He's been pretty adept and making changes in the offseason. How does he turn the roster and organization into something that works together and is functional. Right now, from Phil, to coaching, to the players, it's complete dysfunction junction.

My one hope when Phil came was that he could get the entire organization (personnel, players, coaches) on the same page, like the successful NBA teams around the league. He's been a part of that throughout his career. Instead, he's shown that he's a destabilizing force everywhere.
kp needs to grow the fuck up  
nygiants16 : 4/18/2017 10:47 am : link
every player has hard seasons, how many just straight up disrespect their employer?

you dont like phil jackson? fine but you were the one who said you wanted to run the triangle more and if it is about carmelo grow up...
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