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Rams to decline 2014 #2 pick Greg Robinson 5th year option.

Archer : 4/17/2017 6:17 pm
Why is this interesting?

That is because Robinson, Auburn, OT, who was drafted #2 in the 2014 draft, has been a bust.

Robinson was considered to be a sure fire All Pro prospect and the top rated offensive line prospect in the last 10 years.

He was significantly rated ahead of many other linemen including Zach Martin.

In reading reviews of Robinson and Zach Martin it was not close. Martin was considered to be a marginal first rounder.


Please keep this in mind when you look at this years draft prospects.
Link - ( New Window )
Yea  
kash94 : 4/17/2017 6:22 pm : link
good points. I think sometimes a lot of draft pundits say that high-level OL prospects are the "safest" players to draft while, in reality, every draft pick is a crapshoot.

Something to consider if a notable OL is on the board at 23.
I get the point  
Scuzzlebutt : 4/17/2017 6:22 pm : link
But I am pretty sure Martin was considered more than just a marginal 1st rounder.
Zach Martin  
Archer : 4/17/2017 6:43 pm : link
Martin was downgraded due to 32.75 " arms.
Zach Martin had a grade of 59.7 by NFL.com and a first-second round pick.
RE: Zach Martin  
section125 : 4/17/2017 6:45 pm : link
In comment 13431780 Archer said:
Quote:
Martin was downgraded due to 32.75 " arms.
Zach Martin had a grade of 59.7 by NFL.com and a first-second round pick.


Meh, everyone knew he was going before 15..
RE: I get the point  
chopperhatch : 4/17/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13431772 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
But I am pretty sure Martin was considered more than just a marginal 1st rounder.


This. I hadnt heard of Martin slipping past pick 15.
RE: Zach Martin  
Deej : 4/17/2017 6:51 pm : link
In comment 13431780 Archer said:
Quote:
Martin was downgraded due to 32.75 " arms.
Zach Martin had a grade of 59.7 by NFL.com and a first-second round pick.


1. NFL doesnt grade players on a double digit scale
2. Martin's grade at NFL.com was 6.2
3. Martin's grade was the 16th best in his draft class per NFL.com
4. NFL.com's draft projection for him was "Round 1".
Link - ( New Window )
Every drafted position can bust  
djm : 4/17/2017 7:02 pm : link
As a matter of fact I remember not very long ago the conventional wisdom was that drafted OL were least likely to bust. Everyone feared drafting WRs and TEs. Shit half of BBI was scared of Shockey because the giants could never draft a good TE since Bavaro. RBs were easy. Then the giants drafted Wilson now we're scared.

Should we remember Zach Martin or Robinson?

Martin.s grade  
Archer : 4/17/2017 7:15 pm : link
Please see link below.

Martin is graded at 5.97 which was a low first high second grade.
This grade is lower than Ramzyk 6.2,, Lamp 6.2, Robinson, and Bolles 6.0
Link - ( New Window )
Balance Balance Balance  
RAIN : 4/17/2017 7:18 pm : link
OL. If your very strong or very fast and very large .. you will use those attributes to find the ground very quickly.

Its the single greatest under-measured attribute contributing to success on the field.
Sy had a grade of 84  
mrvax : 4/17/2017 7:19 pm : link
on Robinson. However, Sy didn't think he would play tackle for a year or 2 and would be better off at guard.
Greg Robinson  
Archer : 4/17/2017 7:19 pm : link
Greg was rated at 7.4 and Weston Richburg was 5.3.
I'm just glad people are learning to throw away the wives' tale  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 7:20 pm : link
common wisdom that offensive line picks are "safe".

Lamp=Martin  
Rjanyg : 4/17/2017 7:23 pm : link
? Robinson = Robinson?
yeah, over the past few years  
Cenotaph : 4/17/2017 7:29 pm : link
there have been a ton of high pick OL busts...and quite a few of the 2nd tier or later guys have ended up being the better players. Hard to argue OL is safe, or much safer than most other positions.
Martin...  
Jim in Tampa : 4/17/2017 7:29 pm : link
Was one of the players that was said to be rising up the boards as the draft approached. He was NOT considered a marginal 1st RD/2nd RD pick.

That being said...I get your primary point.
I don't get people's fascination with big, slowish left tackles in the  
Ira : 4/17/2017 7:33 pm : link
draft.
I wanted Martin instead of Odell  
annexOPR : 4/17/2017 7:44 pm : link
thought he was too small to be a #1 WR ...

RE: I'm just glad people are learning to throw away the wives' tale  
djm : 4/17/2017 8:31 pm : link
In comment 13431809 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
common wisdom that offensive line picks are "safe".


Yup. No pick is safe. If any GM knew the secret to safe and not safe they'd go down as the greatest ever. Talent is a neccesary component but every single successful pro athlete seems to possess some singular rare quality that eludes scouting or vetting. It's fascinating really.
The two guys I wanted in the 2014 draft...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/17/2017 9:27 pm : link
were Donald and Martin - preferably Donald. I was hoping to have a shot at either one of them, and was ecstatic when our pick came up and we could take either one. It floored me when we passed them both up for Beckham, but I'm glad we did.

Having said that - I definitely recall that early in the draft Martin was mocked much lower and as the draft grew closer he was starting to be mocked much higher. I wasn't even sure he would make it to us, but thought it was probable. I really didn't think Donald would fall to us either.
RE: I wanted Martin instead of Odell  
TyFromQueens : 4/17/2017 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13431832 annexOPR said:
Quote:
thought he was too small to be a #1 WR ...


I wanted Martin and Allen Robinson in the 2nd rd.

What's crazy is both players were available when we picked. Figured we would go OLine rd 1 and WR rd 2. Instead,it was the opposite.
Allen Robinson is a hell of a player  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 11:02 pm : link
The Giants would be in fine shape if that had been their draft.
...  
est1986 : 4/18/2017 12:08 am : link
Zack Martin and Allen Robinson or Odell Beckham and Weston Richburg...

Yeah that is not even close in my book. Im glad Reese is our guy.
RE: ...  
mrvax : 4/18/2017 12:21 am : link
In comment 13432086 est1986 said:
Quote:
Zack Martin and Allen Robinson or Odell Beckham and Weston Richburg...

Yeah that is not even close in my book. Im glad Reese is our guy.



Me too.
Why is it 'not close'?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/18/2017 1:15 am : link
Zack Martin is a two time all pro. He's not a JAG. And Allen Robinson was a 1400 yard receiver with Blake Bortles as his QB.

Yes, Beckham is a great player.
RE: I get the point  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/18/2017 7:00 am : link
In comment 13431772 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
But I am pretty sure Martin was considered more than just a marginal 1st rounder.


This. So manu people go by early "reports" by the supposed gurus. Martin rose up and was a concensus first Rd lock come draft day once legit info got out
Allen robinson followed up  
UConn4523 : 4/18/2017 7:26 am : link
with a sub-900 yard season so which WR is he? I realize his QB is below average but I wouldn't want that downgrade just to have a pro bowl guard. Martin is great at what he does but Beckhams talent and production is much more of an impact. So yeah, not very close for me.
Dave Te  
Jay in Toronto : 4/18/2017 7:39 am : link
confirmed my suspicion that OL is the hardest position to evaluate and project.
Archer: The Combine Profile and Prospect Profile are different.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/18/2017 7:44 am : link
Archer said:
Quote:
Please see link below.

Martin is graded at 5.97 which was a low first high second grade.
This grade is lower than Ramzyk 6.2,, Lamp 6.2, Robinson, and Bolles 6.0

I know it's weird that the grades don't match, but - for whatever reason - his Prospect Profile has a grade of 6.23, with a Round Projection of clear first-round pick. FWIW, the 6.23 grade still put Martin behind Robinson (7.4), Matthews (7.2) and Lewan (6.3) in the 2014 OL class, basically because Martin was devalued for a near-certain move to guard.
Zack Martin Prospect Profile - ( New Window )
BBB  
Archer : 4/18/2017 8:39 am : link
I noticed the same thing.

I think that NFL.com changes their ratings after the draft.

The profiles how ever do not change.

It is like cheating on the exam. They know the answers and they change their grades to match the possition drafted.

RE: Dave Te  
mrvax : 4/18/2017 8:51 am : link
In comment 13432148 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
confirmed my suspicion that OL is the hardest position to evaluate and project.


I think between Oline, Dline and QB, it's a crap shoot.
Giants just signed their own Robinson  
Carson53 : 4/18/2017 10:01 am : link
his name happens to be Fluker, luckily it's only a
one year deal...Let's see what he can do around here.
RE: I get the point  
Sonic Youth : 4/18/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13431772 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
But I am pretty sure Martin was considered more than just a marginal 1st rounder.
Yeah, I agree with you here. Martin was absolutely not considered a marginal first rounder, that's revisionist history. I actually was flipping out because I thought OBJ was a terrible pick with Martin on the board (lol).

A lot of people had the Giants taking him, and he was a preferred pick for many of us, along with Donald.
RE: Why is it 'not close'?  
Sonic Youth : 4/18/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13432096 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Zack Martin is a two time all pro. He's not a JAG. And Allen Robinson was a 1400 yard receiver with Blake Bortles as his QB.

Yes, Beckham is a great player.
Agree, I don't think it's "not close". In fact, I think it's a bit of a toss up... this all hinges on whether OBJ continues down his path as a top 20 all time WR, of course. If that's the case, no brainer.
The Beckham draft was so deep at WR that I wanted us to go with Martin  
yatqb : 4/18/2017 12:03 pm : link
or Donald in the first. You could see that both would be fantastic players, and that there were a ton of top WRs that could be landed into the 3rd and even 4th rounds.
RE: Allen robinson followed up  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/18/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13432145 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
with a sub-900 yard season so which WR is he? I realize his QB is below average but I wouldn't want that downgrade just to have a pro bowl guard. Martin is great at what he does but Beckhams talent and production is much more of an impact. So yeah, not very close for me.


Is it more of an impact though? And I'm arguably the number one Beckham fan on here, but this team was under .500 in the Beckham era until they got a defense in the field worth a damn., And even then the offense still struggled even when you add Richburg to that. Giants fans certainly have no reason to feel like you need to have a top 3 WR to win a championship with. Its not like you're going from the penthouse to the outhouse by changing out Robinson for Beckham. Bortles essentially played his way out of a job last season.

And it goes without saying that Martin would be by far the best player on this offensive line.
RE: Sy had a grade of 84  
gidiefor : Mod : 4/18/2017 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13431806 mrvax said:
Quote:
on Robinson. However, Sy didn't think he would play tackle for a year or 2 and would be better off at guard.


this is exactly how Sy describes and grades Cam

[[[[[ shudders ]]]]]]
RE: RE: Allen robinson followed up  
UConn4523 : 4/18/2017 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13432628 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13432145 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


with a sub-900 yard season so which WR is he? I realize his QB is below average but I wouldn't want that downgrade just to have a pro bowl guard. Martin is great at what he does but Beckhams talent and production is much more of an impact. So yeah, not very close for me.



Is it more of an impact though? And I'm arguably the number one Beckham fan on here, but this team was under .500 in the Beckham era until they got a defense in the field worth a damn., And even then the offense still struggled even when you add Richburg to that. Giants fans certainly have no reason to feel like you need to have a top 3 WR to win a championship with. Its not like you're going from the penthouse to the outhouse by changing out Robinson for Beckham. Bortles essentially played his way out of a job last season.

And it goes without saying that Martin would be by far the best player on this offensive line.


I don't think you need a top 3 WR to win a SB, I just don't know how good Allen Robinson really is since he's had what seems like a fluke year in 2015. Hard to gauge due to the team he plays for, but its certainly worth noting.

In the end at top 3 WR makes a larger impact than a top Guard or even the top Guard. I'd rather the downgrade at Guard than the downgrade at WR.
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