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NFT: "Better Call Saul" S3-E2 **spoilers**

BlackLight : 4/18/2017 4:08 am
So here's where I'm confused. Last week, Ernie accidentally hears Jimmy confess on Chuck's tape recorder. Chuck makes it absolutely clear to Ernie that he's can't tell anyone.

But this week, Chuck is working this angle, the success of which relies on Jimmy finding out about the tape, and breaking into Chuck's house to destroy it. How does Chuck imagine that Jimmy will even find out about the tape, if he told Ernie to keep quiet about it? Is there a detail here that's so obvious that I'm missing it?
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RE: Daniel,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/18/2017 5:25 pm : link
In comment 13433150 fkap said:
Quote:
that's the premise. I agree.
I simply don't see it. they don't show him at all being some sort of super lawyer. Granted, they depict the partner as a total buffoon, so maybe Chuck is needed to keep the firm alive, but Chuck does not show any real ability. He did have his moment with Mesa Verde, but I thought the whole thing was hokey.

Don't mean to be a nay sayer. I'm on the fence regarding the show. at times, it is brilliant. other times, it's a real snooze. I see Chuck as more of a character on the show who is there to serve a purpose rather than being an integral part of the show. a McGuffet, as Alfred Hitchcock put it, something which doesn't need to make sense, but an object to work a plot around.


When we're dealing with a character who's left his home perhaps 5 times and struggles mightily with a syndrome, when do you expect to see evidence of him being a "super lawyer"? More importantly, WHY do you need to see this? I also completely disagree that Howard is a "total buffoon". I do agree that Chuck is there to serve a purpose (making Jimmy into Saul), but your complaints about the character don't seem particularly important or difficult to overcome IMO.
RE: I waver on between thinking Kim  
mitch300 : 4/18/2017 5:30 pm : link
In comment 13433199 B in ALB said:
Quote:
is pretty damn hot to pretty damn ordinary. What's the consensus from the BBI lotharios?


Hot to cute. It depends on the angel, shot she is in.
angle  
mitch300 : 4/18/2017 5:30 pm : link
.
RE: I waver on between thinking Kim  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 7:27 pm : link
In comment 13433199 B in ALB said:
Quote:
is pretty damn hot to pretty damn ordinary. What's the consensus from the BBI lotharios?


She's "business-hot."
It's pretty clear that Chuck's days as a super-lawyer  
BlackLight : 4/18/2017 7:41 pm : link
were before the events in the series began. He's a founding partner of a law firm housed in a large, impressive building. That doesn't just "happen."

Even if he wasn't skating by on reputation at this point, if he's an equity partner in his firm (which he almost certainly is), then getting rid of him isn't as simple as getting rid of the janitor.
fkap  
Daniel in MI : 4/18/2017 10:30 pm : link
McGuffin is the term and it's something that drives the plot but isn't important in and of itself, it's usually something off screen being sought after or that causes something to have to happen. Chuck is more of a foil, I think. There to counter point Jimmy.

As someone else said, the show picks up well after his super lawyer days are over, so you won't see it now. To me, Jimmy is also Chuck's Kryptonite. He can't let it go. And it may be that how Chuck's wife left him had something to do with Jimmy, as that seems to be the thing that F'ed Chuck up so badly. Chuck's anger toward Jimmy is irrational, and goes back to their childhoods. And it WAS telling that Chuck knew Jimmy would come for the tape, but was way off on how. He always sees Jimmy in the worst light. His feelings about Jimmy blind him to even good things Jimmy did like putting himself through law school at night.

The whole show (at least the first chapters) is about how Jimmy becomes Saul. It's more character study than action show. I think it's interesting. Acording to the Podcast about the show, they expected the show to be more humor and Saul being Saul. That's the "Mork and Mindy" direction, a show about the Saul's antics as a scummy lawyer. But, as they began to get into it, they became more interested in giving him depth, so you actually care about Saul. So, this is more of a spin off like "Fraiser", complete with foil brother, where you learn more about the character, his depth and his family that made him who he is. So, everything in the show is about how Jimmy becomes Saul. If that issue is no longer of interest, I'm not sure I'd watch. You're on season 3, I think by now your sold or your not into it. Getting rid of Chuck and Kim is easy. He's on unsteady ground with both all the time. They can kill Chuck off, or make this split with Jimmy here be so bad and deep that they they disown one another. Kim can get caught up in the wash of all that and just break with Jimmy, too. Or, worse, Chuck really hurts Kim in the process of hurting Jimmy, and Jimmy disowns Chuck or tortures him (think how vulnerable Chuck is given his electronics issues how how severely they affect him).

I think it's interesting to see how this all unfolds, how Jimmy gets wrapped up with Mike and Gus and turns to Saul. To me, the attention the writers pay to all this, the way they let it unfold, that is the fun of the how. I enjoy the enjoy watching a show runner and writers that bring their A game every week.

These are great writers who care about character, and unlike many shows, they really try to keep things internally consistent in this world and their characters, with few if any "cheap" outs. They write themselves into corners all the time and don't go for the easy out. Compare it to Walking Dead where the writers are forever inconsistent internally (they constantly forget covering themselves with walker guts makes them invisible to walkers) and cheap tricks and weird choices inconsistent with character abound.

I think it would also be interesting if, in a season or 2 as we get into where BB starts in the timeline, they jump ahead and we see how he extricates himself from his current circle of hell as Cinnabon purveyor to resume his life as Saul. It has the potential to be a prequel and sequel to BB in one.
It appears as tho this will now end  
DennyInDenville : 4/18/2017 11:40 pm : link
With Kim hating Saul for breaking into Chucks to destroy the tape


Saul will then b come Saul from Jimmy
RE: It appears as tho this will now end  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 12:48 am : link
In comment 13433714 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
With Kim hating Saul for breaking into Chucks to destroy the tape


Saul will then b come Saul from Jimmy


It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I think something tragic is going to occur to explain why Chuck and Kim are not a part of Jimmy's life anymore.
Nobody knows what happens to Kim  
BlackLight : 4/19/2017 1:22 am : link
From the pilot, people assumed that she winds up dying of lung cancer because she smokes so much.
Daniel  
fkap : 4/19/2017 12:21 pm : link
I mostly agree with you. I diverge a bit on the Chuck character. McGuffin, McGuffet, foil, whatever, he's just there for us to hate, and to drive Jimmy bonkers. he doesn't need to make sense, or be some great character study.

I've thought from the beginning, that Cinnabon Saul can be a start of a new 'spin off'. People think of CS as a destination (like How I met your mother), but there's a whole world of possibility there. I'm guessing by time they get there, the show will have run it's course and Cinnabon Saul will be as dead as Walt.
The said part is Jimmy  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 12:47 pm : link
worked so hard to get that law degree and Chuck doesn't see it as hard work, but a short cut. Jimmy tries his hardest to be Chuck.

In the beginning of the show, Jimmy is trying so hard to walk the straight line, and its against who he is internally, but I can't stop thinking that if Chuck just gave him some encouragement or a pat on the back when he did something right, instead of recent him, Jimmy wouldn't go to the darkside.

Chuck is too black and white, and being that way, he is just as bad as Jimmy is. He clearly only cares about being right. Chuck started getting sick when Jimmy got his Law Degree and passed the bar. He won't be better until Jimmy is no longer a lawyer.

Kim is probably going to get her name dragged through the mud due to this stupid event, and Chuck doesn't care. Jimmy is essentially going to ruin Kim's life and get her disbarred.
I think eventually Mike will be involved in the Jimmy/Chuck conclusion  
moespree : 4/19/2017 1:01 pm : link
Mike is not going to kill Chuck but getting him to back off Jimmy, and breaking him away from Jimmy, seems to be a real possibility in my opinion. Jimmy helped Mike out in this episode and even reminded him he's got his back. Knowing the way Vince Gilligan foreshadows and writes, those two things from this episode don't seem like coincidences to me. It seems they're planting the seeds for Mike to return the favor at some point. And as we know from Breaking Bad Mike and Jimmy do maintain a relationship the entire time and do continue to assist each other.
Let's  
mitch300 : 4/19/2017 1:32 pm : link
also remember that Jimmy wanted to work for Chuck's firm and thru Howard, Chuck said no.
Well we know Saul has  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 1:41 pm : link
someone that can change his identity and basically put you in witness protection. I bet you Mike has that hookup, but no way Saul changes to Saul with Kim and Chuck still in the picture. They have to be dead at this point.
I half expected to see Ernesto agonizing at home what to do  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 2:06 pm : link
and Gus walks in and is like "what's wrong son?"
If I recall correctly,  
fkap : 4/19/2017 2:08 pm : link
wasn't Chuck already sick when Jimmy announced his law degree?

Chuck has always been sick on BCS. the show opened with Jimmy announcing his law degree and Chuck already being a recluse. It comes as a surprise to Chuck that Jimmy was doing law school and had passed the bar. Chuck did diss Jimmy's method of becoming a lawyer, espousing night school/correspondence courses being a sub par education.

It'll be interesting to see the part of Chuck's marital status play from here. one episode from a previous season had Chuck getting jealous over the then wife getting along with Jimmy, and in this last episode, Jimmy blurts out something about why it took so long for her to leave Chuck. These things happen for a reason on the show.
RE: Well we know Saul has  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13434335 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
someone that can change his identity and basically put you in witness protection. I bet you Mike has that hookup, but no way Saul changes to Saul with Kim and Chuck still in the picture. They have to be dead at this point.


I actually think that might be what ended up happening to Kim for some reason.
RE: If I recall correctly,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13434381 fkap said:
Quote:
wasn't Chuck already sick when Jimmy announced his law degree?

Chuck has always been sick on BCS. the show opened with Jimmy announcing his law degree and Chuck already being a recluse. It comes as a surprise to Chuck that Jimmy was doing law school and had passed the bar. Chuck did diss Jimmy's method of becoming a lawyer, espousing night school/correspondence courses being a sub par education.

It'll be interesting to see the part of Chuck's marital status play from here. one episode from a previous season had Chuck getting jealous over the then wife getting along with Jimmy, and in this last episode, Jimmy blurts out something about why it took so long for her to leave Chuck. These things happen for a reason on the show.


Chuck got sick after Jimmy got his law degree. He's basically sick because he has anxiety over Jimmy being a servant of the law. Last years flash backs with chuck under the huge lights were hinting at it.
fkap  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/19/2017 2:15 pm : link
I don't believe so. When the show starts Jimmy is already a practicing lawyer in elder law. They show in a flashback the day he told Chuck he received his law degree while Chuck was still working at the office (prior to his condition). Excited Jimmy thinks this means he will be able to practice at HHM and then during his cake ceremony in the mail room Howard walks in to tell him no dice.
it would be fitting for Jimmy  
fkap : 4/19/2017 2:16 pm : link
to ruin Kim's life. He's a lot like Walt. there isn't a character from BB that benefited from knowing Walt (maybe the dude who smuggled Walt to the North east, but he was a minor character). Walt was toxic. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the same producers/creators use Jimmy as a surrogate for Walt, where everyone he touches wilts.
Remember in BB when Mike took Jesse  
B in ALB : 4/19/2017 2:21 pm : link
on all of those pick-ups all over New Mexico? Then Mike orchestrated the hold up while he was in the warehouse picking up another package? Jesse gets away in Mike's car and picks him up outside the diner?

I'm sort of assuming that Mike takes the place of the guy in the last BCS episode who is doing all the pick-ups while Mike trails him through the night - eventually ending up outside LPH. That's going to be Mike's role moving forward - basically Gus' right hand man. And that's how the connection to Jimmy/Saul is made for Walter White to take advantage of.
RE: Remember in BB when Mike took Jesse  
David in LA : 4/19/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13434411 B in ALB said:
Quote:
on all of those pick-ups all over New Mexico? Then Mike orchestrated the hold up while he was in the warehouse picking up another package? Jesse gets away in Mike's car and picks him up outside the diner?

I'm sort of assuming that Mike takes the place of the guy in the last BCS episode who is doing all the pick-ups while Mike trails him through the night - eventually ending up outside LPH. That's going to be Mike's role moving forward - basically Gus' right hand man. And that's how the connection to Jimmy/Saul is made for Walter White to take advantage of.


That's a great guess. Knowing Gus, since his pick up guy gave him away, it's time to cut bait and replace him.
And Gus and Mike have a huge thing in common  
B in ALB : 4/19/2017 2:24 pm : link
They both HATE Hector Salamanca. That will also bring them together.
Steve  
fkap : 4/19/2017 2:26 pm : link
could be. I remember him telling someone in the office, but thought it was Kim. Thought Chuck was always a recluse.
I agree it looks like Jimmy will be ruining those around him  
moespree : 4/19/2017 2:28 pm : link
We know from this episode he obviously ruined the "folksy" as the episode put it, happy nature of the front desk lady. She's still with Saul in Breaking Bad but no where near as nice or caring. Which brings up another point...whatever happens to make him Saul that front desk lady follows him anyway. So Jimmy obviously has a great deal of trust in her, because one would assume since she knows him as Jimmy, she's going to know at least some of what goes down.
RE: I agree it looks like Jimmy will be ruining those around him  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13434424 moespree said:
Quote:
We know from this episode he obviously ruined the "folksy" as the episode put it, happy nature of the front desk lady. She's still with Saul in Breaking Bad but no where near as nice or caring. Which brings up another point...whatever happens to make him Saul that front desk lady follows him anyway. So Jimmy obviously has a great deal of trust in her, because one would assume since she knows him as Jimmy, she's going to know at least some of what goes down.


Great observation.
Francesca definitely has some skeletons  
B in ALB : 4/19/2017 2:52 pm : link
in her closet. The whole departure from the DMV was sketchy to say the least. And they didn't even check any references or look into her background.
Yeah remember she tried to shake down Walt  
moespree : 4/19/2017 2:56 pm : link
After he broke the window in BB. I think it was like 20 thousand or something she tried to extort. So either she's not so nice from the start and at this point in Better Call Saul is pretending, or Jimmy brings her down a dark path and ruins her.
whatever  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/19/2017 3:31 pm : link
happens between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad to turn Jimmy into Saul I cannot imagine is something on such a grand scale as murder / criminal. Jimmy works and practices in Albuquerque in both shows. He has previously been employed by two of the largest firms in the area and has his face has been plastered on television with ad's & billboards as Jimmy McGill (he's publically known). In Breaking Bad he is even more well known publically (Jesse & Walt know him even before ever meeting him from commercials). If Chuck is successful in his attempt to get Jimmy barred from Law or criminally in trouble with that tape then simply changing his name isn't going to escape him from the past enough to start practicing law again. If Chuck or Kim are murdered because of his doing, again H.H.M. & Davis & Main are going to have major suspicion of the one guy who ties those two people together that they know unquestionably just changing his name and going about his career in town. Something more subtle on a public scale but heart wrenching is going to have to happen to cause Jimmy to turn into Saul in my opinion.
He's going to have Chuck committed  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 4:57 pm : link
which will take down HHM, because with out Chuck they are nothing.

Kim on the other hand, I have no idea. I feel like she'll get disbarred somehow or might have to move from bad publicity from Jimmy going to jail.
RE: whatever  
mitch300 : 4/19/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13434506 Steve in Greenwich said:
Quote:
happens between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad to turn Jimmy into Saul I cannot imagine is something on such a grand scale as murder / criminal. Jimmy works and practices in Albuquerque in both shows. He has previously been employed by two of the largest firms in the area and has his face has been plastered on television with ad's & billboards as Jimmy McGill (he's publically known). In Breaking Bad he is even more well known publically (Jesse & Walt know him even before ever meeting him from commercials). If Chuck is successful in his attempt to get Jimmy barred from Law or criminally in trouble with that tape then simply changing his name isn't going to escape him from the past enough to start practicing law again. If Chuck or Kim are murdered because of his doing, again H.H.M. & Davis & Main are going to have major suspicion of the one guy who ties those two people together that they know unquestionably just changing his name and going about his career in town. Something more subtle on a public scale but heart wrenching is going to have to happen to cause Jimmy to turn into Saul in my opinion.

Steve, I said the same thing yesterday @ 12:47 post.
So, whatever they get him on now will obviously be dismissed. Maybe his defense is that Chuck is crazy. Won't be too hard to prove.
RE: RE: whatever  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/19/2017 6:23 pm : link
In comment 13434678 mitch300 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434506 Steve in Greenwich said:


Quote:


happens between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad to turn Jimmy into Saul I cannot imagine is something on such a grand scale as murder / criminal. Jimmy works and practices in Albuquerque in both shows. He has previously been employed by two of the largest firms in the area and has his face has been plastered on television with ad's & billboards as Jimmy McGill (he's publically known). In Breaking Bad he is even more well known publically (Jesse & Walt know him even before ever meeting him from commercials). If Chuck is successful in his attempt to get Jimmy barred from Law or criminally in trouble with that tape then simply changing his name isn't going to escape him from the past enough to start practicing law again. If Chuck or Kim are murdered because of his doing, again H.H.M. & Davis & Main are going to have major suspicion of the one guy who ties those two people together that they know unquestionably just changing his name and going about his career in town. Something more subtle on a public scale but heart wrenching is going to have to happen to cause Jimmy to turn into Saul in my opinion.


Steve, I said the same thing yesterday @ 12:47 post.
So, whatever they get him on now will obviously be dismissed. Maybe his defense is that Chuck is crazy. Won't be too hard to prove.


Real simple. My brother is crazy and I do things to make him less crazy and I got upset because I am over here helping him all the time and he is here trying to frame for crap I didn't do. I have every right to be upset at my brother.
Is it reasonable to assume  
BlackLight : 4/19/2017 8:54 pm : link
that the tape Jimmy destroyed wasn't "The Tape?"
My guess is Kim relocated to NYC and starts over  
DennyInDenville : 4/19/2017 9:24 pm : link
.
RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/19/2017 10:10 pm : link
In comment 13434871 BlackLight said:
Quote:
that the tape Jimmy destroyed wasn't "The Tape?"


Doesn't matter if it is the tape... Howard already said he's not going to use it. What they could get him for is forcing his way into the home, destroying property, and threatening to burn down the house.
Listening to a podcast review of the episode  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 7:48 am : link
And they brought up that Kik could possibly be looking into putting Chuck away for extortion, which makes a ton of sense.
I thought the consensus was that  
fkap : 4/20/2017 10:46 am : link
Chuck is nothing since his breakdown. Why does HHM need Jimmy to further breakdown Chuck to obliterate the firm? Chuck is no longer super lawyer carrying his weight, or the weight of the firm. He's a flaked out fellow. the firm wanted him gone at one point. they sink or swim without him.
RE: I thought the consensus was that  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/20/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13435286 fkap said:
Quote:
Chuck is nothing since his breakdown. Why does HHM need Jimmy to further breakdown Chuck to obliterate the firm? Chuck is no longer super lawyer carrying his weight, or the weight of the firm. He's a flaked out fellow. the firm wanted him gone at one point. they sink or swim without him.

HHM wanted to distance themselves from Chuck but they don't want him gone. The first episode of the show Jimmy is meeting with Howard trying to get Howard to pay out Chuck's share which he cant do because the firm cant afford to pay him out. They rather him be an invalid locked up in his home, but don't want him gone and taking his equity in the company. Howard's fear was that Jimmy would have Chuck committed and use power of attorney to force HHM to buy him out, as that would bankrupt the firm. Jimmy "does the right thing" and only uses the power of attorney to get the tests done Chuck needs but does not have Chuck committed to collect the money despite what Chuck and Howard expect him to do. This goes back to the final episode of the first season when Jimmy comes to the realization that he held millions of dollars in his hand and did the right thing and gave it back. He says when given the opportunity again he will never make that mistake again. Next time Chuck has an episode, Jimmy will again have the opportunity in his hands for the mega-payout from HHM, bankrupting them and taking the money.
RE: I thought the consensus was that  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13435286 fkap said:
Quote:
Chuck is nothing since his breakdown. Why does HHM need Jimmy to further breakdown Chuck to obliterate the firm? Chuck is no longer super lawyer carrying his weight, or the weight of the firm. He's a flaked out fellow. the firm wanted him gone at one point. they sink or swim without him.


I think its been said that if Chuck were to cash out, the firm would go belly up.
The irony is that Chuck  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 11:15 am : link
is trying his hardest to put Jimmy away, and get him out of practicing Law, and somehow or another its going to lead to Chuck's demise.

On the flip side, if Chuck had acted as a proud older brother, there is a chance that Jimmy might have straightened himself out.
wasn't the 'never going to do that again'  
fkap : 4/20/2017 11:16 am : link
in regards to the cash that had been embezzled, and therefore couldn't be brought up in court? Mike made a point of saying he wouldn't take it because he had been paid to recover it, not to steal it. The Chuck deal was that the firm wanted Chuck out, and Jimmy knew that would be the final nail in the coffin for Chuck, so he refused. the firm was offering a buyout, (a little hazy on this, but I think based on having Chuck committed) which power of attorney/Brother Jimmy wouldn't go for.

Honestly, at that point, two years ago, Jimmy switched over to Saul. But they decided to drag out the story line another couple of years when Jimmy will (hopefully, who knows, we'll see how the ratings go) reach the same exact point he did after throwing away a lucrative big time lawyer gig and leaving Mike in the photo hut booth..

I think there is a possibility  
B in ALB : 4/20/2017 11:25 am : link
that Jimmy and Howard end up working together behind the scenes to the detriment of Chuck. After Jimmy is put in jail, Howard comes to him with some sort of plan allowing Jimmy to keep practicing law while getting power of attorney over Chuck. Howard gets rid of Chuck on his terms and Jimmy escapes trouble. They meet at the end of an episode and Howard thanks him, "S'all good, man." Cut to black.
RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
Mike in Long Beach : 4/20/2017 11:34 am : link
In comment 13434986 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434871 BlackLight said:


Quote:


that the tape Jimmy destroyed wasn't "The Tape?"



Doesn't matter if it is the tape... Howard already said he's not going to use it. What they could get him for is forcing his way into the home, destroying property, and threatening to burn down the house.


This isn't true at all. He said he wasn't going to use the tape at a time when the tape was all that was available as evidence. Once Jimmy did all of the things you just noted he did, it proves he believes the tape to be real and incriminating. That gives the tape as evidence far more value in court than it did before.

If that wasn't the actual tape, then the real one would certainly be back on the table, I'd think.
Breaking in isn't going to get Jimmy disbarred  
Mike in Long Beach : 4/20/2017 11:35 am : link
Forging court documents will. That's Chuck's end-game here. Not 2 weeks in county.
RE: Breaking in isn't going to get Jimmy disbarred  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13435406 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
Forging court documents will. That's Chuck's end-game here. Not 2 weeks in county.


I think we know he doesn't get disbarred, right? He was a practicing attorney in Breaking bad which is probably after all the Chuck stuff.

Unless he gets his license back after a while or is simply practicing law without a license or viewed changing his name from Jimmy to Saul as a way to get a fake license under a different name.
one thought I had  
fkap : 4/20/2017 12:58 pm : link
amongst the many semi synapse firings, is that the mug shot could be of cinnabon Saul. We're assuming it's of Jimmy McGill.

I doubt it's CS, but it could be. If I were the writer, I'd go there. be a nice twist. he fainted and would have had the authorities called in, and perhaps found out.
RE: RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/20/2017 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13435403 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:

This isn't true at all. He said he wasn't going to use the tape at a time when the tape was all that was available as evidence. Once Jimmy did all of the things you just noted he did, it proves he believes the tape to be real and incriminating. That gives the tape as evidence far more value in court than it did before.

If that wasn't the actual tape, then the real one would certainly be back on the table, I'd think.


The problem with that is there's no way to prove the intent. We (the viewers) and the characters know that was the actual intent, but I don't recall Jimmy explicitly saying that. I thought most of what he said was incredulity about being taped... not admitting whether the statements on the tape were true or false. I could be wrong though about what he said. I'll have to watch that scene again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
BlackLight : 4/20/2017 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13435629 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

The problem with that is there's no way to prove the intent. We (the viewers) and the characters know that was the actual intent, but I don't recall Jimmy explicitly saying that. I thought most of what he said was incredulity about being taped... not admitting whether the statements on the tape were true or false. I could be wrong though about what he said. I'll have to watch that scene again. [/quote]

Considering that the scheme Chuck dreamed up to corner Jimmy in the first place was pretty far-fetched, I'm thinking they might be playing fast and loose with the legalities here.
I could  
Steve in Greenwich : 4/20/2017 1:25 pm : link
see Howard turning on Chuck due to this entire tape business. His shock while hearing the tape seemed less towards what Jimmy had done, but more looked like a distaste for how far Chuck went (secretly recording the conversation, faking sick to lure his Brother in, playing on Jimmy's heartstring). Howard also knows that the endgame has no gains for himself. The Mesa Verde account is lost, he says even if he could prove without a shadow of doubt that Jimmy sabotaged them, Mesa Verde would not come back to HHM just due to the bad optics from these events. If the tape isn't going to get his client back the only end result would be getting Jimmy barred from Law. For this Howard is going to let Chuck spend piles of money for private detectives and likely more in future court fees? Jimmy barred from law also could sandbag the one big money case that HHM continues working on (the Sand Piper Case); a case that Jimmy handed them that could be collaterally damaged by Jimmy's shady lawyer work being brought into light.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is it reasonable to assume  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 4/20/2017 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13435629 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13435403 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:



This isn't true at all. He said he wasn't going to use the tape at a time when the tape was all that was available as evidence. Once Jimmy did all of the things you just noted he did, it proves he believes the tape to be real and incriminating. That gives the tape as evidence far more value in court than it did before.

If that wasn't the actual tape, then the real one would certainly be back on the table, I'd think.



The problem with that is there's no way to prove the intent. We (the viewers) and the characters know that was the actual intent, but I don't recall Jimmy explicitly saying that. I thought most of what he said was incredulity about being taped... not admitting whether the statements on the tape were true or false. I could be wrong though about what he said. I'll have to watch that scene again.


Or it could be viewed as Jimmy getting very upset with his brother that he is trying to take care of, and all he wants to do is bring his own brother down no matter what.
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