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It is going to be exceedingly difficult for the Giants to find a great deal of help for their offensive line in the upcoming NFL draft. There is a general consensus that the three top offensive line prospects are Cam Robinson of Alabama, Ryan Ramczyk of Wisconsin and Garett Bolles of Utah. All three could go in the first round. The problem is, the Giants are not enamored with any of the three. Sure, there are aspects of all three that are intriguing, but when assessing the entire package, the Giants look at the players, look at their pick – No. 23 overall – and it is difficult to find a match of need and value. |
But if Ramczyk checks off medically, which I believe he does, I would absolutely consider him the pick because he could very well be the BPA.
Devon - I don't know why -- but that story was fed to Schwartz
The law of averages should balance this out. Maybe the Giants can find good value in the middle rounds (not necessarily to start this year.)
We need to draft PLAY MAKERS.
not PLAY PREVENTERS.
TE, RB, DE, OLB, CB, FS in r1.
Free agency is for the upcoming season. The draft is more about years 2 and 3 at that position.
Get the best talent and be adaptable to that talent. If West Coast style coach is handed the 1995 Nebraska Cornhuskers and continues to run the West Coast offense, that's a shitty coach.
Free agency is for the upcoming season. The draft is more about years 2 and 3 at that position.
Eric - Flowers, Richburg and Pugh all had to start year 1 -- in the current NFL - if you don't get a starter in round 1 -- you failed the draft
Free agency is for the upcoming season. The draft is more about years 2 and 3 at that position.
Great point. We are all very aware that the O-line needs upgrading or even fixing. It rarely works drafting o-linemen that seamlessly step into a position. Once in awhile it happens like with Conklin. But in most cases, it takes a couple of years of NFL seasoning before they can be trusted on the line and even then, that first year is usually shaky. To top it off, the FA o-linemen were not top shelf players and even the oft injured ones and a little too aged were getting contracts like they were Conklin.
The Giants did what they could be picking up Fluker and adding Ellison who will help blocking at the line along with the current linemen. It wasn't like there were dozens of options available or that if we draft one this year in the first round that all our problems will go away.
The Giants should focus on the very best player on the board - period. We're built to win now, not in Eli's last year or when he is replaced.
How has that turned out?
The law of averages should balance this out. Maybe the Giants can find good value in the middle rounds (not necessarily to start this year.)
I think people are thinking in terms of a "day 1 starter". It's a tough thing to expect in ANY draft year.
However that's not the same as starting Week 1. "Day One starter" is a fan thing, it's not a Giants thing.
However that's not the same as starting Week 1. "Day One starter" is a fan thing, it's not a Giants thing.
But if the context of the conversation is finding an offensive line 'savior', that wouldn't seem to mean 'rookie who sits for the first 8 games'
PP -- it's not just anonymous people who are saying it - according to the linked article by Paul Schwartz -- The Giants are saying it
Having said that, I think the Giants are going to add an edge rusher.
I have no idea who turns out to be good great or a bust but anyone saying there's no NFL talent on the OL in this draft is just dopey. Here isn't s guy on this OL which has sniffed a Pro Bowl. Hard to believe here isn't anyone in this draft who can help one of the worst units in the NFL
Dave Te likes Lamp. Thinks he can be an OT or Guard. Sy likes McDermott who in most draft guides is projected as a 3/4 round prospect.
I can see NYG drafting an OL but it makes the most sense to do so in rounds 2-4.
LB, DT, DE, TE or RB will have better value than OT this year in round 1.
Dave Te likes Lamp. Thinks he can be an OT or Guard. Sy likes McDermott who in most draft guides is projected as a 3/4 round prospect.
People are underestimating how much we need to improve the DL. JPP and Vernon played 80-90% of the snaps last season, and Hankins is gone.
[quote] There is, but none of it is readily apparent to be ready to go as immediately as the Giants actually need help at the position. [/quote
Readily apparent. Well that's a matter of opinion isn't it. IMO I'd take Robinson or Lamp are immediate upgrades at either G or T. So maybe I'm all wet. That's fine to disagree but it gets old every year as people take a statelment like this and the insinuate that it's impossible to disagree.
How Many teams in the top 15 the year Martin was taken would like to heir pick back IMO that kid made every other guy on that OL better It was hardly readily apparent he was going to be that good. And if you read enough on his site you certainly get more than enough people acting like picking an OL at 23 would be the biggest mistake ever.
I'm fine w passing on an OL at 23 if they like someone else's but this anti Ol stance is pervasive w plenty here.
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There is, but none of it is readily apparent to be ready to go as immediately as the Giants actually need help at the position.
There are at least three, maybe four, that could come in and start immediately for the Giants. In fact, if the Giants drafted an OL in both rounds one and two, it's possible that both would win starting jobs on the Giants OL. Which is more of an indictment on what's currently on the Giants roster than an affirmation of the OL prospects in the draft, but it is what it is and pretending it is otherwise isn't going to make the team's OL problems go away.
I agree with what you're saying as far as there being a lack of talent on the OL presently, but the standard needs to be better than "well he'd start on THIS lousy line for sure". A lot of middle of the road players around the nfl would start ahead of some of the names on this line too. hat doesn't mean it's wise to overpay to acquire their services.
What's up for debate is whether the talent that could be available when the Giants pick represents enough value that makes it worth passing up another position.
It's not like they don't have other pressing needs too. The defense is clearly what drove the team to success last season, and they walked a tightrope all season long, requiring basically every player to be healthy all year long in order to make it.
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There is, but none of it is readily apparent to be ready to go as immediately as the Giants actually need help at the position.
There are at least three, maybe four, that could come in and start immediately for the Giants. In fact, if the Giants drafted an OL in both rounds one and two, it's possible that both would win starting jobs on the Giants OL. Which is more of an indictment on what's currently on the Giants roster than an affirmation of the OL prospects in the draft, but it is what it is and pretending it is otherwise isn't going to make the team's OL problems go away.
+1
But if Ramczyk checks off medically, which I believe he does, I would absolutely consider him the pick because he could very well be the BPA.
That's not a gut feeling; that's just a symptom of reading too many of Milton's posts.
Readily apparent. Well that's a matter of opinion isn't it. IMO I'd take Robinson or Lamp are immediate upgrades at either G or T. So maybe I'm all wet. That's fine to disagree but it gets old every year as people take a statelment like this and the insinuate that it's impossible to disagree.
How Many teams in the top 15 the year Martin was taken would like to heir pick back IMO that kid made every other guy on that OL better It was hardly readily apparent he was going to be that good. And if you read enough on his site you certainly get more than enough people acting like picking an OL at 23 would be the biggest mistake ever.
I don't mean to say that it's impossible to disagree. They could very well find the next Chris Snee in round 2 this year. I'm only in disagreement with the idea that it "has to" be offensive line in the first round.
It's not like they don't have other pressing needs too. The defense is clearly what drove the team to success last season, and they walked a tightrope all season long, requiring basically every player to be healthy all year long in order to make it.
So is Flowers. That's not exactly a badge of honor given the state of the OL.
Robinson would also be top five on the team in police activity and stolen gun possession.
It's odd that these guys are so polarizing when the OL obviously needs help. Both are very good prospects. Much more attractive than the en vogue tweener edge rushers recently being hyped up. Speaking of which, when was the last time that worked out in this scheme?
Bolles 25 years old and only one year FBS.
That drops both out of first round consideration for me.
Cam Robinson is the only first round OT in this draft IMO.
He has the length you want, he has the starting experience against the best competition. He only gave up 1 sack last year. He's not just a one year wonder. He was a top recruit and started since his freshman year. He was a team captain. If we were hell bent on drafting a OT in the first, I'm fine with Cam Robinson at 23.
Also, in the past couple of drafts, the Giants were drafting high, so by matter of elimination, it was easier to focus on who they like. Now,at 23, there are so many variables before we get to that pick, it's tough to focus on 2-3 players unless we are talking about OJ Howard & I hope,but doubt, he will be available at 23.
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Readily apparent. Well that's a matter of opinion isn't it. IMO I'd take Robinson or Lamp are immediate upgrades at either G or T. So maybe I'm all wet. That's fine to disagree but it gets old every year as people take a statelment like this and the insinuate that it's impossible to disagree.
How Many teams in the top 15 the year Martin was taken would like to heir pick back IMO that kid made every other guy on that OL better It was hardly readily apparent he was going to be that good. And if you read enough on his site you certainly get more than enough people acting like picking an OL at 23 would be the biggest mistake ever.
I don't mean to say that it's impossible to disagree. They could very well find the next Chris Snee in round 2 this year. I'm only in disagreement with the idea that it "has to" be offensive line in the first round.
agreee. I think that it's the most obvious hole. At 23 the Giants are at the mercy of too many teams. I'm hoping there's a run on QBs and someone offers a. Extra 2 to move up. I'd also like to win the Powerball fwiw. We will know in about a week.
Sometimes the 23rd pick turns out better than the 9th.......
or maybe even
Pugh/Lamp[Asiata]Fluker\Flowers
or maybe
Pugh/Lamp/Richburg\Hart\Fluker
Mix in more outside zone plays left, in addition,
more two tight ends and outside running,
possibly add a RB in the 4th or 5th round.
To me, fans are obsessed with pure left tackles in early rounds and lacking that they just stop considering improvements.
Its all about the G-C-G combo for those non play action pass play selections, and running quick outside zone plays with play action mixed in to allow the tackles to tee off on defenders for the alternative schematics.
and all about having football smart and good blocking tight ends, increasing wr blocking duties on those plays
in addition, my obsession about moving Pugh to OLT is more about increasing the G-C-G power and weight to comply with Mac Ball than it is about Pugh being an all world tackle.
Then, add in the current and typical OLT 'market situation' and the move becomes that much more rational
But if Ramczyk checks off medically, which I believe he does, I would absolutely consider him the pick because he could very well be the BPA.
The Org does indeed favor Robinson, for all the obvious reasons. Size and reach. Youth (does not turn 22 until October). Extensive experience in a pro football factory. Health and durability. Former 5-star recruit. There's a lot to like.
Remember, they drafted Flowers in the top-10 and their methodology remains the same. Trill Withers understands how Flowers' struggles could ignite Robinson as a nightmare outcome to NYG fans.
IN FAIRNESS - Flowers and Robinson might be similar, but they aren't the same. Flowers himself is only 23; The Org values youth and physical talent because it affords the foundation for someone like Flowers to grow into a player even after a rocky introduction.
On the other hand, Ranaan has the correct report on Ramczyk. Regardless of his tape, the medical background creates too much concern. Anyone can 'believe' he checks out medically, but at this point even the best ortho's and PT's are only making an educated guess about the completion of his rehab.
Unfortunately, there's nothing to truly "check out" other than conformation his rehab schedule is on track. He's only about 3.5 months out of a labrum repair, which optimistically involves a 6-month timetable. Latest reports indicate he's dong well. Even then, anyone who has had major surgeries on hips, knees, shoulders knows that the last 10-20% is the very hardest to recapture. Nothing is guaranteed after they cut you open.
For some teams, that information is good enough to keep Ryan in their 1st round. But what do we know about NYG? Risk aversion in RD 1 - they were out on Todd Gurley under the same pretense. Health and character; Tunsil was also off our board for both of those factors.
Bottom line, it won't be Ram but it could be Cam. Thrill Ride is not uncertain.