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NFT: Mets vs Phils Gm 2 - better HIT thread!

spike : 4/19/2017 7:41 pm
Looks like losing 4 in a row and back to 500 got us all down a bit on the Mets. Let's see if Gazelleman has a bounce back start from his last outing.

Lineup
Grandy
Cabrera
Cespedes
Bruce
Walker
Duda
Reyes
TDA
Gsellman



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I love Big Lucas  
Vanzetti : 4/19/2017 11:16 pm : link
seems like a great guy. Really humble whenever he speaks to the media.

But in some ways, the sooner Mets move on from him, Grandy, Reyes and Walker the better.

They have Flores, Cecchini, Conforto and Riveria (as a fill-in). If those guys are all in the lineup by the end of June, it will serve the Mets the best in the longrun.

What's up with the attendance?  
bhill410 : 4/20/2017 3:45 am : link
Seems strange.

Also love how baseball is such a balancing act, if we trade Bruce maybe we afford a better bullpen but we would have what 3 definite losses? However with a better bullpen maybe we win 3 more games this year.
Figured I'd keep quiet about it  
Shecky : 4/20/2017 8:22 am : link
But this morning it still bothers me. Combination of two conversations we just had. Hustle (or lack of) and Collins getting his players to work hard for him.

One thing Terry does very well is always protects his players to the media. Players LOVE HIM for it.
BUT
on that play Ces tried to score... "I don't think it was that bad of a play". Come on Terry. He didn't get a good jump off the bat. Ran about 80% until HE decided he thought he could score. At that point he ran full speed, but RIGHT PAST HIS 3B coach giving him the stop sign.

I don't care about the result. Safe or out. You don't ignore your coaches. And as a coach, if my manager just OK'd it as opposed to reprimand the player, well... not picking, sure. But this isn't Monday morning QB. I bash this concept constantly,, and even the player. Can't let the narrative turn into "he hustled and tried to spark his struggling offense", which is exactly how it will. /endrant
What Collins says to the media  
spike : 4/20/2017 8:56 am : link
Mightt not be the same as to what he says to his players in private.

But I assume he would give his vets some leeway and not micromanage
You don't honestly think  
Shecky : 4/20/2017 9:04 am : link
Collins confronted Ces do you??
Really needed  
Metnut : 4/20/2017 9:21 am : link
that win last night. Glad to see Gsellmen look as good as we know he can be.

I've probably been the harshest on Jay Bruce on BBI so I certainly didn't see this coming but I'm glad it's happening. If Conforto really has figured it out then we're going to have an OF which can really mash.

No need to "give up" on Reyes yet, but he doesn't need to play every day either.
It's not hard to understand why players love him (at least the vets)  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 9:57 am : link
No matter how much they suck, how bad their approach is, or their lack of hustle or focus...he let's them play. Zero accountability.

But for the life of me, I can't see how younger players love him. Especially when they are producing and, in some cases, carrying the team. His who preachy mantra of "if you hit, you play" apparently only applies to younger players, not his aging, underperforming vets.

Different rules for different players. TC has no feel for the game and let's the vets run the show. He's even said as much (which I guess is not uncommon for vets to run the clubhouse). I know I'm in the minority but I do believe this team would be much better without TC.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 10:37 am : link
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team. Maybe his bullpen management or lineups could be better. I doubt either would make a ton of difference in terms of wins and losses when all is said and done.

Ces ran through a stop sign - it happens. I don't think he needs to be chewed out for it. He got thrown out. He'll probably think better of it next time.
Managers are different than coaches in any other sport  
Eric on Li : 4/20/2017 11:00 am : link
the actual role of manager is much more about personality fit and keeping the team motivated and playing hard over the long haul - and in that regard he is a really good fit for this club. His BP management is not ideal but on the positive side in the playoffs a few years ago (and most big games last year) and we don't always have all of the information.

In terms of hustle and fundamentals, part of that may be on Collins style, but the other part is within the DNA of the players we have. On both accounts there's shared responsibility with those who assembled the roster in the first place, but also I think we need to understand there's always going to be the need to "take the good with the bad". No matter who his manager is, Cespedes is going to look lazy from time to time. Daniel Murphy's fundamentals will never be good running the bases or defensively. If we can't accept faults in players even if they have unique abilities and we want all try-hard types we'd need to be prepared to have a roster full of Brandon Nimmos.
Really can't bring myself to get worked up over a baserunning gaffe  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/20/2017 11:08 am : link
In April. He made an aggressive mistake. It happens and life goes on. It doesn't have to be a referendum on Terry Collins as a manager.
I don't think it's fruitful to focus on just one baserunning gaffe  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 11:36 am : link
either. It's better to look at the sum of the parts rather than just one specific scenario. I think it's more of a culture issue than an Xs and Os issue (which shouldn't be minimized either). Lack of accountability and fundamentals has been talked about with TC for years. This isn't a new thing. He has his favorites, caters to his favorites, mostly to the detriment of the team. Yes, I want veterans to be held accountable. They don't get a free pass because they are veterans. And if your vets have problem with that and cause issues in the clubhouse, then you have bigger problems.

Look at what happened with the Nationals when they went from Matt Williams to Dusty Baker. And at least Matt Williams won 97 games and was Mgr of the Year the season prior to being canned. Sometimes you need a culture of accountability to realize your potential. Of course, you also need the right players.
Good point  
Shecky : 4/20/2017 11:51 am : link
We got our one "base running gaffe" for the season out of the way. We're good now
.  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 12:02 pm : link
I'm sure we'll make a few other baserunning errors over the course of the season. Are there teams that this doesn't happen to? If so, I'd love to know who they are because I see other teams make equally egregious errors pretty regularly.
I feel like some of you are taking this as if it's unprecedented  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/20/2017 12:55 pm : link
That sometimes ballplayers make boneheaded mistakes.

Is it really a stretch to consider that in a game where one player created all the scoring, and after a few games of not hitting or scoring, a player just got jumpy and wanted to make something happen?

Besides, isn't Collins retiring after the year? It's a bit late for wishing he would change his stripes.

RE: .  
Greg from LI : 4/20/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13435268 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.


Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Collins  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 12:59 pm : link
hasn't said he's retiring, he's implied he's considered it. Supposedly Dick Scott would be a heavy favorite for the job. I'd love for them to hire A-Rod but I don't expect it.
Verducci  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 1:01 pm : link
says the "new market standard" for the elite young players may be reaching as much as 40 million per season... Harper, Machado etc
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13435620 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13435268 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.



Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.


Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.

I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.

Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.

Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
.  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 1:32 pm : link
Quote:
Michael Mayer‏ @mikemayerMMO 2m2 minutes ago

Worst wRC+ in MLB thus far

Byron Buxton -32
Devon Travis -29
Leonys Martin -15
Dansby Swanson -7
Jose Reyes -4
Paulo Orlando -1
RE: RE: RE: .  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13435640 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13435620 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13435268 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.



Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.



Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.

I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.

Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.

Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.


I'm not sure that's true. Look at Joe Torre. Mediocre managerial career until the Yankees and all of a sudden Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, plus all the other pieces wins a bunch of rings, playoffs every year, and now Torre is like the Yoda of managers and a hall of famer.

Probably others like him. Maybe Terry Francona.

I agree with you though baseball manager direct impact on wins/losses is relatively minor, however look at the standings, some years 1 game separates a team from playoffs and playing golf, or the WC game vs division winners or a play-in game just to make it to the WC, etc.

even if a manager can only directly impact the outcome of a handful of games, if it's on the negative side, that can be a big difference.




.  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 1:44 pm : link
It goes both ways, though. Decisions that lead to wins are rarely talked about while decisions that lead to losses turn into "the manager is clueless"

I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
RE: .  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
It goes both ways, though. Decisions that lead to wins are rarely talked about while decisions that lead to losses turn into "the manager is clueless"

I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.


I agree.
Mets should be in on this guy  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 1:56 pm : link
is there a good reason why they're not?

Quote:
MLB Pipeline‏Verified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago

Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP


Quote:
One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.


Quote:
The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.


Link - ( New Window )
a couple of things about Torre  
Greg from LI : 4/20/2017 1:59 pm : link
First of all, he was mediocre at best when it came to on the field decisions. He did OK when he had Zimmer as his bench coach. After Zimmer left, he was abysmal. He was one of the worst handlers of a bullpen I've ever seen, and over time his personnel decisions got worse and worse.

Second of all, the Yankees (especially back then under Big Stein) were a uniquely difficult environment. Torre's outstanding gift as manager was his ability to handle Steinbrenner and the NY media. He was a native NYer and had managed the Mets, so he knew what the pressure is like. He played the beats like a Stradivarius. He was a laid-back guy by nature and set out to make the clubhouse as stress-free as possible. Because the dynasty Yankee teams were comprised of guys who were mostly quiet professional-types, it worked quite well.

He was the classic case of the right guy with the right situation. He never would have succeeded like that with another franchise, and (although I'm not a big fan of his) I don't think the Yankees would have been as successful with another manager.
RE: .  
Greg from LI : 4/20/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.


Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
RE: Mets should be in on this guy  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13435761 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is there a good reason why they're not?



Quote:


MLB Pipeline‏Verified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago

Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP





Quote:


One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.





Quote:


The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.

Link - ( New Window )


They don't pursue big money IFA's... Ever. Send a scout? Maybe. But since Kaz Matsui they haven't been heavily involved for any of these guys. Did finish #2 for Ichiro though! lol
Maddon  
Shecky : 4/20/2017 2:04 pm : link
Was the biggest FA miss for the mets since Arod
The hyperbole in scouting gets a bit silly  
Greg from LI : 4/20/2017 2:05 pm : link
There's no question this Cuban guy is the best player on the planet? Did Mike Trout get shot into space or something?
Isn't that stupid though?  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 2:05 pm : link
I mean sure, some of these guys will flop (Rusney Castillo for one), but many won't and they're available for just cash.

Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.

and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
RE: Isn't that stupid though?  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13435794 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I mean sure, some of these guys will flop (Rusney Castillo for one), but many won't and they're available for just cash.

Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.

and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.


It is stupid. They are risk adverse and that's the long and short of it. You could defend them if it was 1-2 guys who they didn't bid on who ended up good players but they all but sit out the Cuban/Japanese markets
RE: The hyperbole in scouting gets a bit silly  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13435791 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
There's no question this Cuban guy is the best player on the planet? Did Mike Trout get shot into space or something?


Yeah, obviously hyperbole, it's like the guy is his agent, not a scout.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 2:14 pm : link
especially silly when you see the relative bargains guys like Cespedes, Chapman, Abreu, Moncada etc were. Dodgers have about 5 big Cuban signings, 2 of which are viewed as big time talents. Yadier Alvarez (16 million) is one of the top RHP prospects in baseball, they signed Yusniel Diaz who scouts rave about, Omar Estevez for 6 million etc etc. I'm not saying they need to be the Dodgers but it would be nice if once in a while they popped for one of these guys.
Raisel Iglesias  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 2:16 pm : link
7 years 27 million looks like an absolute steal for the Reds
Robert  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 2:17 pm : link
isn't the best player on the planet (obviously) but he's arguably the best position player not signed to an MLB club, he and Tetsuto Yamada
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13435771 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.



Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.


Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
RE: RE: RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13435640 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.


Eh, not sure I agree with this. I'm on every met thread and fans are killing the players waaaaaay more than the manager. And that's saying something considering its Terry Collins. Fans will get on TC for his boneheaded moves but I think the discussion around the mets manager has been more about team philosophy and approach, than "Collins sucks" type of comments. At least, so far this year.

I know a lot of fans think otherwise, but managers can definitely affect how a team performs, for a variety of reasons. I just feel, and have always felt that TC is on the negative side of that.

As Greg said, Girardi has show the ability to get the most out of lesser talent. There is the value in a manager. Getting the most out of your players. I feel the opposite about Terry.
RE: RE: RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13435819 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13435771 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.



Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.



Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.


Well, compared to Terry Collins, he is. And the Cubs were, far and away, the best team in baseball last season. And, you know, he actually won the world series. Again, a manager that can get the most out of his players.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13435845 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13435819 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13435771 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.



Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.



Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.



Well, compared to Terry Collins, he is. And the Cubs were, far and away, the best team in baseball last season. And, you know, he actually won the world series. Again, a manager that can get the most out of his players.


Yeah, I'm sure the Cubs winning the WS had nothing to do with an absolutely LOADED lineup full of young studs, excellent starting pitching, or an elite closer.

Just the brilliance of Joe Maddon...
.  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 2:35 pm : link
If there was a team in baseball with a better roster than the one the Cubs had at the end of last year, I'd love to know which team it was.
The Cubs would have been the best team with Bill Murray managing  
Greg from LI : 4/20/2017 2:42 pm : link
That team is stacked. They lost Schwarber for the regular season after week one and didn't even miss a beat.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 2:44 pm : link
In comment 13435853 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


Yeah, I'm sure the Cubs winning the WS had nothing to do with an absolutely LOADED lineup full of young studs, excellent starting pitching, or an elite closer.

Just the brilliance of Joe Maddon...


Of course it's about the players...but that doesn't mean that the manager has no affect. And based on our past conversations, we aren't going to agree on that because you place less importance on the manager than I do. Which is fine. I understand your side of it.

But I'll put it to you this way. Put Collins at the helm of the Cubs the last few years, and I don't think they win. It's a culture thing. And I don't think that Terry gets the most out of his players.
RE: The Cubs would have been the best team with Bill Murray managing  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13435869 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
That team is stacked. They lost Schwarber for the regular season after week one and didn't even miss a beat.


I'd rather have Bill Murray, lol.
.  
arcarsenal : 4/20/2017 2:52 pm : link
You really don't think the Cubs would have won the WS last year with Collins as their manager?

I don't really understand that logic. Didn't Collins' just get the Mets to the WS the year before with arguably less talent than the Cubs had and sweep a team that Maddon managed in the process? Why couldn't Maddon get one win against us in the NLCS if he has as much impact as is being suggested?

I think Maddon gets too much credit for being "unconventional".. I think he's a good manager - I'd take him over Collins. But I feel like he's discussed as this Belichick-ian presence sometimes which never made sense to me.

I think most managers could have won a WS with the roster the Cubs had last year. Including Collins.
he also managed a terrible WS  
Eric on Li : 4/20/2017 3:00 pm : link
especially his BP usage.
Looks  
DanMetroMan : 4/20/2017 3:04 pm : link
like the league was right on Jose Bautista. He looks completely done.
Maddon took an extremely young, green team and managed them  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 3:04 pm : link
to 97 wins in 2015. They had 73 wins just the year before.

They were a young team just getting there, our pitching was fantastic, and Daniel Murphy went insane. That's why we beat them.

Then, they got better and the Mets got worse.

Again, I believe that Maddon manages up and Collins manages down. If I feel that Maddon gets the most out of his players and went to and won the WS, then why would I feel that they still get the same result when Collins DOESN'T get the most out of his players?
RE: Maddon took an extremely young, green team and managed them  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13435917 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
to 97 wins in 2015. They had 73 wins just the year before.

They were a young team just getting there, our pitching was fantastic, and Daniel Murphy went insane. That's why we beat them.

Then, they got better and the Mets got worse.

Again, I believe that Maddon manages up and Collins manages down. If I feel that Maddon gets the most out of his players and went to and won the WS, then why would I feel that they still get the same result when Collins DOESN'T get the most out of his players?


I wouldn't simply say the Mets got worse.

the Mets lost Harvey, deGrom, and Matz from that 2015 rotation. And Wright from the lineup. Wright was not awful in the NLDS.

So, yes they regressed, but injuries had more to do with it than simply getting worse.

Even without the Daniel Murphy FA loss.

Harvey and deGrom both went 7+ innings in that NLCS, in their only starts.
pj, yeah I thought about that too. Certainly didn't discount it.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 3:37 pm : link
But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.

Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.

I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
RE: pj, yeah I thought about that too. Certainly didn't discount it.  
pjcas18 : 4/20/2017 3:46 pm : link
In comment 13435983 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.

Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.

I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.


well I don't think Terry is anything special and could be upgraded, but I also don't hold him solely accountable for the team performance in 2016 (good or bad)

RE: RE: pj, yeah I thought about that too. Certainly didn't discount it.  
PhiPsi125 : 4/20/2017 3:55 pm : link
In comment 13436002 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13435983 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.

Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.

I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.



well I don't think Terry is anything special and could be upgraded, but I also don't hold him solely accountable for the team performance in 2016 (good or bad)


We agree on that.
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