thoughts on the Mets "boom or bust" hitting philosophy.
It really seems like we are destined to repeat history of last season. Having to hear the same conversations from the booth about only scoring 2.5 runs per game over X games is disheartening. And it's only game 15, lol.
RE: If Shecky is lurking around, I'd love to know your
thoughts on the Mets "boom or bust" hitting philosophy.
It really seems like we are destined to repeat history of last season. Having to hear the same conversations from the booth about only scoring 2.5 runs per game over X games is disheartening. And it's only game 15, lol.
I hate it, always have. Been pretty clear about that the last few years. But I will say - get used to it. Stats have "proven it works" and the rest of baseball is now fly ball happy.
Personally, I'd have built this team on pitching like they have. And modeled after the 80's Cardinals. Would have gone that route the second they decided to build Citifield. Would have been a MASSIVE home field advantage. Instead - the rebuilt the stadium. Twice.
Yeah, Earl. I wasn't even blaming Collins if you can believe it.
This comes from the top I can only assume. Everyone knows my views on TC so there is no reason to get into that. But it would seem that they have learned nothing from last years debacle.
As for speed and leadoff hitting, I feel like the game is changing. I don't there is as much importance on the leadoff hitter as there used to be. But they still need to get on base. They aren't the slowest team in the world (I think) but they don't employ smart baserunning either. Need to go first to third more on hits. Need to hit and run more. Create some offense, especially when things are getting stale.
when they had first got to Miami. NOPE. Not yet. They might be more cold now than ever. lol
I hate to place blame on one guy... but when the team is ice cold like this you got to turn to your superstar you are paying 25 million dollars to to lighten the load a bit. It's not fair. Everyone is hot and cold in a season but Cespedes gets just as cold as anyone and deserves more of the heat.
He'll be fine but the longer this continues the larger the spotlight will grow.
Sometimes I think that the reliance on stats ruins the game at some point. I'm staring at that new fly ball philosophy not working. And it makes the game boring. Why base your hitting philosophy on such a low percentage play (the HR)? I'm with you in hating it.
It's one of the reasons Im excited for the future. I genuinely hope Cheech, Nimmo, Conforto, and Smith are going to end up pushing their way into spots eventually. The lineup is all screwed up though right now. Why is Duda, one of your best OBP guys, batting 6th or 7th? Makes no sense. Oh well. Mets will be there in the end. Im trying not to get caught up in too much day to day stuff and just enjoy it. Hard to believe we've only played 14 games. It's a long season. As cold as we are now we'll be equally as hot eventually.
about just staying healthy. I think most of these guys stats will be there in the end. I also dont think it's likely all 8 guys get hot at the same time or cold at the same time once we get into the summer months. As long as everyone is in the lineup the chances of a few of them being hot and even carrying us for stretches are pretty high IMO. Just how I look at it.
Geez, I hope Duda is okay and it's not serious but does any guy
play through a little hurty anymore? You never used to see guys take themselves out of the game in the past. Hard-nosed players went away once the millions of $$$ started, lol.
Through a full season. Winning 15-2, then losing 5 out of 6 by one run each. Well, I don't buy it. But I'm old school on that. Big time. I love doubles hitters, don't care as much for the homer in as most. I LOVE watching a guy go first to third on a ball abit in the rite center gap. To me, that's exciting. But I understand very few in baseball think like I do. And way fewer fans think like I do.
Just get to the playoffs. Then 50/50 chance your bats are hot and you go down in history.
play through a little hurty anymore? You never used to see guys take themselves out of the game in the past. Hard-nosed players went away once the millions of $$$ started, lol.
Don't go there Phi. I almost got yelled about that exact same thing this morning lol
Through a full season. Winning 15-2, then losing 5 out of 6 by one run each. Well, I don't buy it. But I'm old school on that. Big time. I love doubles hitters, don't care as much for the homer in as most. I LOVE watching a guy go first to third on a ball abit in the rite center gap. To me, that's exciting. But I understand very few in baseball think like I do. And way fewer fans think like I do.
Just get to the playoffs. Then 50/50 chance your bats are hot and you go down in history.
play through a little hurty anymore? You never used to see guys take themselves out of the game in the past. Hard-nosed players went away once the millions of $$$ started, lol.
Don't go there Phi. I almost got yelled about that exact same thing this morning lol
Haha. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Some awesome positives with both Harvey and Wheeler coming back and looking good after terrible surgeries and time away. I still think Gsellman is going to be really good. deGrom is pitching like it's 2015 again. Duda (until tonight) and TDA both appeared back and healthy and they were huge question marks. Too bad.
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
I let your little comment slide without a peep last night but if you are going to act like a little fucking bitch every time the bullpen lets up a run get ready for a long season asshole. We had the number 2 pen in baseball last year. Period. We have yet to blow a game in the 9th with Familia out and guys like Blevins who gave up the lead the last two nights could have just as easily been in this game or not. Keep kicking rocks because we didn't sign Aroldis Chapman loser. LOL
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
I let your little comment slide without a peep last night but if you are going to act like a little fucking bitch every time the bullpen lets up a run get ready for a long season asshole. We had the number 2 pen in baseball last year. Period. We have yet to blow a game in the 9th with Familia out and guys like Blevins who gave up the lead the last two nights could have just as easily been in this game or not. Keep kicking rocks because we didn't sign Aroldis Chapman loser. LOL
I don't care what you let slide. Who the fuck are you. I don't need your approval or permission to post anything on any thread.
You're a no one delusional homer fan who overrates just about every player on the team and in the minors.
The bullpen is a concern, not just now, but even with Familia, and especially should the Mets make the playoffs.
So yes, I'll be concerned about it and I'll voice my concern whether you like it or not.
while you continually remind us how great Reed is and how lights out studs like Sewald are (yes you said that).
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
I let your little comment slide without a peep last night but if you are going to act like a little fucking bitch every time the bullpen lets up a run get ready for a long season asshole. We had the number 2 pen in baseball last year. Period. We have yet to blow a game in the 9th with Familia out and guys like Blevins who gave up the lead the last two nights could have just as easily been in this game or not. Keep kicking rocks because we didn't sign Aroldis Chapman loser. LOL
I don't care what you let slide. Who the fuck are you. I don't need your approval or permission to post anything on any thread.
You're a no one delusional homer fan who overrates just about every player on the team and in the minors.
The bullpen is a concern, not just now, but even with Familia, and especially should the Mets make the playoffs.
So yes, I'll be concerned about it and I'll voice my concern whether you like it or not.
while you continually remind us how great Reed is and how lights out studs like Sewald are (yes you said that).
You can voice your opinion whenever the fuck you want just like I can. My issue is with you turning into a twat making passive aggressive attacks every time the fucking pen lets up a run and acting like a two-year-old now every game. We all know you are coming at me. And no I never said Sewald was stud. I said he was an "upside option" this year. Look it up.
Reed doesn't look quite the same in 9th inning as he did in the 8th
this team has as much starting pitching and power as anyone. Need to fill in around that. Sandy would be well served to find some reliable supporting hitters and BP support.
and was not meant to get a rise out of you. Honestly.
A lot of people share your view.
My comment was just venting my own frustration with the bullpen (something I thought would be a concern).
Needed this win.
I genuinely thought you were attacking me the last two nights. If you weren't then I apologize completely.
Come on, I think you know if I was going to say something to you I'd address you. Even if it was an attack.
]We have civilly debated this topic all off-season and so far this season.
No reason for me to not address you directly if I wanted to attack you, which is far too tiresome (I mean that as a compliment). even if we disagree about it.
and was not meant to get a rise out of you. Honestly.
A lot of people share your view.
My comment was just venting my own frustration with the bullpen (something I thought would be a concern).
Needed this win.
I genuinely thought you were attacking me the last two nights. If you weren't then I apologize completely.
Come on, I think you know if I was going to say something to you I'd address you. Even if it was an attack.
]We have civilly debated this topic all off-season and so far this season.
No reason for me to not address you directly if I wanted to attack you, which is far too tiresome (I mean that as a compliment). even if we disagree about it.
Nice win, nice bounce back from Gsellman.
Ok. Well I just thought this would be something that could be unbearable if we were going to continue this all year so I thought it was worth addressing. Sorry I flew off the handle. You know I liked the pen going in. Still do. I think its going to be fine. It's not the best ever or one for the record books or anything and they will give up runs. But I think it's very solid. My biggest concern is Familia in big spots actually. Time will tell.
This is what Bruce is. He started last year like this too.
And by that, I don't mean Jay Bruce is going to play at this level for 162 games.. but he's capable of having big-time impact for stretches.
Of course, with this, comes what we saw from him almost exclusively last year in his short time in Flushing. So, I expect the "bad" Bruce to show up again at some point this year - but if he balances it out by playing like this for stretches at a time, it'll be easier to deal with.
Which is why I still might sell high at the deadline but I'm enjoying the ride for now.
Im excited to make some changes tomorrow. We need to go back to a 5 man bench. If TDA and Duda are banged up there is going to be some major roster moves tomorrow. Of course we know Familia is activated also.
The guy ends up with 60 XBH every single year and put up 97+ RBI 4 of the last 5 years. He's not the best hitter but he's been one of the most consistent sluggers in baseball over the last half decade.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Duda remarkably combines with unreliability with inconsistency
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Ziegler and Holland were the 2 big misses. I know he'll get hot at some point and hit 10 homers in a month and make me eat my words, but bringing i'd much rather have spent the 17M they paid Walker in the bullpen and let 1 of Flores/Cecchini/Rivera take 2nd.
Familia, Reed, Salas, Blevins, and Robles were all locks regardless if we brought somebody else in or not. Presumably, they would have left a spot for a long man like Lugo. So that's really it. If you believe in Smoker and think he'll be better than some of the guys that were available on the market then there was no room really. If you don't believe in him and think he's a turd then a vet makes a lot more sense. Time will tell I guess if the Mets guessed right.
I also dont think Holland was ever realistic at all.
He is the closer for a team that won the World Series a year and half ago and is making 7 million a year. We have no insight at all into if he would be willing to come here and be the 2nd or 3rd best option.
But the guy literally doesn't have one bad year to his name and he's off to a really nice start this year. He's been an incredibly consistent reliever for a decade now. 16M for 2 years was a very fair deal for a guy with his track record.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
But if I had to guess, Reed does regress some. He was just insane last year. I think he's the kind of guy that would be solid-ish as a closer on some teams but not elite. As a setup man though he' s obviously very good and I think he'll still crack 1 fWAR as a reliever which is very good this year. I think Salas is probably overrated actually. I think he's a solid middle relief guy, nothing more. I do like that he has a little closer experience though. Robles was actually pretty good last year ups and downs and all and Blevins is an excellent LOOGY. Where my confidence really comes from is yes.. depth.... I really like Smoker... I think Sewald and now McGowen could be depth later... Lugo and Matz are going to complicate things when they return and somebody like Lugo might be added as the long man... and... Some of our current starters might have to pitch in the pen in the playoffs. If we stay relatively healthy the pen is going to be packed.
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
But the guy literally doesn't have one bad year to his name and he's off to a really nice start this year. He's been an incredibly consistent reliever for a decade now. 16M for 2 years was a very fair deal for a guy with his track record.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
But the guy literally doesn't have one bad year to his name and he's off to a really nice start this year. He's been an incredibly consistent reliever for a decade now. 16M for 2 years was a very fair deal for a guy with his track record.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
Yea, the only upside is the possibility of trading for someone better than what was available this offseason at the deadline.
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Sandy has added a reliever and a big bat ever since we hit our "WS competing window". If we need to add another reliever we will. I'm not particularly concerned about it.
Clippard, Reed, and Salas were all pretty much acquired for peanuts.
What I am concerned about is our all-stars performing. Time for Familia to be the man and shut teams down when it matters most. I've already seen the Benitez story. I don't want to see it again.
RE: Duda remarkably combines with unreliability with inconsistency
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Sure. It's possible. If 6 guys are healthy and pitching though that means we have some depth and some wiggle room to possibly put Lugo in the pen. We'll see. Im fascinated to see how this season could play out. It could go so many different ways both in the rotation and lineup.
RE: RE: Duda remarkably combines with unreliability with inconsistency
If Smith struggles all year in Vegas they might indeed try to get him at a friendly deal. In the least, Duda is getting a QO that he likely turns down IMO. Smith rakes all year then yeah.. I think they do let Duda walk.
seems like a great guy. Really humble whenever he speaks to the media.
But in some ways, the sooner Mets move on from him, Grandy, Reyes and Walker the better.
They have Flores, Cecchini, Conforto and Riveria (as a fill-in). If those guys are all in the lineup by the end of June, it will serve the Mets the best in the longrun.
Also love how baseball is such a balancing act, if we trade Bruce maybe we afford a better bullpen but we would have what 3 definite losses? However with a better bullpen maybe we win 3 more games this year.
But this morning it still bothers me. Combination of two conversations we just had. Hustle (or lack of) and Collins getting his players to work hard for him.
One thing Terry does very well is always protects his players to the media. Players LOVE HIM for it.
BUT
on that play Ces tried to score... "I don't think it was that bad of a play". Come on Terry. He didn't get a good jump off the bat. Ran about 80% until HE decided he thought he could score. At that point he ran full speed, but RIGHT PAST HIS 3B coach giving him the stop sign.
I don't care about the result. Safe or out. You don't ignore your coaches. And as a coach, if my manager just OK'd it as opposed to reprimand the player, well... not picking, sure. But this isn't Monday morning QB. I bash this concept constantly,, and even the player. Can't let the narrative turn into "he hustled and tried to spark his struggling offense", which is exactly how it will. /endrant
that win last night. Glad to see Gsellmen look as good as we know he can be.
I've probably been the harshest on Jay Bruce on BBI so I certainly didn't see this coming but I'm glad it's happening. If Conforto really has figured it out then we're going to have an OF which can really mash.
No need to "give up" on Reyes yet, but he doesn't need to play every day either.
It's not hard to understand why players love him (at least the vets)
No matter how much they suck, how bad their approach is, or their lack of hustle or focus...he let's them play. Zero accountability.
But for the life of me, I can't see how younger players love him. Especially when they are producing and, in some cases, carrying the team. His who preachy mantra of "if you hit, you play" apparently only applies to younger players, not his aging, underperforming vets.
Different rules for different players. TC has no feel for the game and let's the vets run the show. He's even said as much (which I guess is not uncommon for vets to run the clubhouse). I know I'm in the minority but I do believe this team would be much better without TC.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team. Maybe his bullpen management or lineups could be better. I doubt either would make a ton of difference in terms of wins and losses when all is said and done.
Ces ran through a stop sign - it happens. I don't think he needs to be chewed out for it. He got thrown out. He'll probably think better of it next time.
Managers are different than coaches in any other sport
the actual role of manager is much more about personality fit and keeping the team motivated and playing hard over the long haul - and in that regard he is a really good fit for this club. His BP management is not ideal but on the positive side in the playoffs a few years ago (and most big games last year) and we don't always have all of the information.
In terms of hustle and fundamentals, part of that may be on Collins style, but the other part is within the DNA of the players we have. On both accounts there's shared responsibility with those who assembled the roster in the first place, but also I think we need to understand there's always going to be the need to "take the good with the bad". No matter who his manager is, Cespedes is going to look lazy from time to time. Daniel Murphy's fundamentals will never be good running the bases or defensively. If we can't accept faults in players even if they have unique abilities and we want all try-hard types we'd need to be prepared to have a roster full of Brandon Nimmos.
Really can't bring myself to get worked up over a baserunning gaffe
either. It's better to look at the sum of the parts rather than just one specific scenario. I think it's more of a culture issue than an Xs and Os issue (which shouldn't be minimized either). Lack of accountability and fundamentals has been talked about with TC for years. This isn't a new thing. He has his favorites, caters to his favorites, mostly to the detriment of the team. Yes, I want veterans to be held accountable. They don't get a free pass because they are veterans. And if your vets have problem with that and cause issues in the clubhouse, then you have bigger problems.
Look at what happened with the Nationals when they went from Matt Williams to Dusty Baker. And at least Matt Williams won 97 games and was Mgr of the Year the season prior to being canned. Sometimes you need a culture of accountability to realize your potential. Of course, you also need the right players.
I'm sure we'll make a few other baserunning errors over the course of the season. Are there teams that this doesn't happen to? If so, I'd love to know who they are because I see other teams make equally egregious errors pretty regularly.
I feel like some of you are taking this as if it's unprecedented
That sometimes ballplayers make boneheaded mistakes.
Is it really a stretch to consider that in a game where one player created all the scoring, and after a few games of not hitting or scoring, a player just got jumpy and wanted to make something happen?
Besides, isn't Collins retiring after the year? It's a bit late for wishing he would change his stripes.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
hasn't said he's retiring, he's implied he's considered it. Supposedly Dick Scott would be a heavy favorite for the job. I'd love for them to hire A-Rod but I don't expect it.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
I'm not sure that's true. Look at Joe Torre. Mediocre managerial career until the Yankees and all of a sudden Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, plus all the other pieces wins a bunch of rings, playoffs every year, and now Torre is like the Yoda of managers and a hall of famer.
Probably others like him. Maybe Terry Francona.
I agree with you though baseball manager direct impact on wins/losses is relatively minor, however look at the standings, some years 1 game separates a team from playoffs and playing golf, or the WC game vs division winners or a play-in game just to make it to the WC, etc.
even if a manager can only directly impact the outcome of a handful of games, if it's on the negative side, that can be a big difference.
It goes both ways, though. Decisions that lead to wins are rarely talked about while decisions that lead to losses turn into "the manager is clueless"
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
It goes both ways, though. Decisions that lead to wins are rarely talked about while decisions that lead to losses turn into "the manager is clueless"
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
MLB PipelineVerified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
Quote:
One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.
Quote:
The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.
First of all, he was mediocre at best when it came to on the field decisions. He did OK when he had Zimmer as his bench coach. After Zimmer left, he was abysmal. He was one of the worst handlers of a bullpen I've ever seen, and over time his personnel decisions got worse and worse.
Second of all, the Yankees (especially back then under Big Stein) were a uniquely difficult environment. Torre's outstanding gift as manager was his ability to handle Steinbrenner and the NY media. He was a native NYer and had managed the Mets, so he knew what the pressure is like. He played the beats like a Stradivarius. He was a laid-back guy by nature and set out to make the clubhouse as stress-free as possible. Because the dynasty Yankee teams were comprised of guys who were mostly quiet professional-types, it worked quite well.
He was the classic case of the right guy with the right situation. He never would have succeeded like that with another franchise, and (although I'm not a big fan of his) I don't think the Yankees would have been as successful with another manager.
MLB PipelineVerified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
Quote:
One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.
Quote:
The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.
Link - ( New Window )
They don't pursue big money IFA's... Ever. Send a scout? Maybe. But since Kaz Matsui they haven't been heavily involved for any of these guys. Did finish #2 for Ichiro though! lol
I mean sure, some of these guys will flop (Rusney Castillo for one), but many won't and they're available for just cash.
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
I mean sure, some of these guys will flop (Rusney Castillo for one), but many won't and they're available for just cash.
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
It is stupid. They are risk adverse and that's the long and short of it. You could defend them if it was 1-2 guys who they didn't bid on who ended up good players but they all but sit out the Cuban/Japanese markets
especially silly when you see the relative bargains guys like Cespedes, Chapman, Abreu, Moncada etc were. Dodgers have about 5 big Cuban signings, 2 of which are viewed as big time talents. Yadier Alvarez (16 million) is one of the top RHP prospects in baseball, they signed Yusniel Diaz who scouts rave about, Omar Estevez for 6 million etc etc. I'm not saying they need to be the Dodgers but it would be nice if once in a while they popped for one of these guys.
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
Eh, not sure I agree with this. I'm on every met thread and fans are killing the players waaaaaay more than the manager. And that's saying something considering its Terry Collins. Fans will get on TC for his boneheaded moves but I think the discussion around the mets manager has been more about team philosophy and approach, than "Collins sucks" type of comments. At least, so far this year.
I know a lot of fans think otherwise, but managers can definitely affect how a team performs, for a variety of reasons. I just feel, and have always felt that TC is on the negative side of that.
As Greg said, Girardi has show the ability to get the most out of lesser talent. There is the value in a manager. Getting the most out of your players. I feel the opposite about Terry.
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
Well, compared to Terry Collins, he is. And the Cubs were, far and away, the best team in baseball last season. And, you know, he actually won the world series. Again, a manager that can get the most out of his players.
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
Well, compared to Terry Collins, he is. And the Cubs were, far and away, the best team in baseball last season. And, you know, he actually won the world series. Again, a manager that can get the most out of his players.
Yeah, I'm sure the Cubs winning the WS had nothing to do with an absolutely LOADED lineup full of young studs, excellent starting pitching, or an elite closer.
Yeah, I'm sure the Cubs winning the WS had nothing to do with an absolutely LOADED lineup full of young studs, excellent starting pitching, or an elite closer.
Just the brilliance of Joe Maddon...
Of course it's about the players...but that doesn't mean that the manager has no affect. And based on our past conversations, we aren't going to agree on that because you place less importance on the manager than I do. Which is fine. I understand your side of it.
But I'll put it to you this way. Put Collins at the helm of the Cubs the last few years, and I don't think they win. It's a culture thing. And I don't think that Terry gets the most out of his players.
RE: The Cubs would have been the best team with Bill Murray managing
You really don't think the Cubs would have won the WS last year with Collins as their manager?
I don't really understand that logic. Didn't Collins' just get the Mets to the WS the year before with arguably less talent than the Cubs had and sweep a team that Maddon managed in the process? Why couldn't Maddon get one win against us in the NLCS if he has as much impact as is being suggested?
I think Maddon gets too much credit for being "unconventional".. I think he's a good manager - I'd take him over Collins. But I feel like he's discussed as this Belichick-ian presence sometimes which never made sense to me.
I think most managers could have won a WS with the roster the Cubs had last year. Including Collins.
to 97 wins in 2015. They had 73 wins just the year before.
They were a young team just getting there, our pitching was fantastic, and Daniel Murphy went insane. That's why we beat them.
Then, they got better and the Mets got worse.
Again, I believe that Maddon manages up and Collins manages down. If I feel that Maddon gets the most out of his players and went to and won the WS, then why would I feel that they still get the same result when Collins DOESN'T get the most out of his players?
RE: Maddon took an extremely young, green team and managed them
to 97 wins in 2015. They had 73 wins just the year before.
They were a young team just getting there, our pitching was fantastic, and Daniel Murphy went insane. That's why we beat them.
Then, they got better and the Mets got worse.
Again, I believe that Maddon manages up and Collins manages down. If I feel that Maddon gets the most out of his players and went to and won the WS, then why would I feel that they still get the same result when Collins DOESN'T get the most out of his players?
I wouldn't simply say the Mets got worse.
the Mets lost Harvey, deGrom, and Matz from that 2015 rotation. And Wright from the lineup. Wright was not awful in the NLDS.
So, yes they regressed, but injuries had more to do with it than simply getting worse.
Even without the Daniel Murphy FA loss.
Harvey and deGrom both went 7+ innings in that NLCS, in their only starts.
pj, yeah I thought about that too. Certainly didn't discount it.
But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.
Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.
I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
RE: pj, yeah I thought about that too. Certainly didn't discount it.
But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.
Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.
I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
well I don't think Terry is anything special and could be upgraded, but I also don't hold him solely accountable for the team performance in 2016 (good or bad)
RE: RE: pj, yeah I thought about that too. Certainly didn't discount it.
But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.
Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.
I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
well I don't think Terry is anything special and could be upgraded, but I also don't hold him solely accountable for the team performance in 2016 (good or bad)
He has to bench the ice cold Granderson for Conforto.
And that's all you need to know about what this team is all about. The same philosophy that produced the 26th ranked offense last year.
Such a shame too. This team is too talented to be stunted by an awful, ineffective offensive philosophy.
And that's all you need to know about what this team is all about. The same philosophy that produced the 26th ranked offense last year.
Such a shame too. This team is too talented to be stunted by an awful, ineffective offensive philosophy.
Part of the blame needs to go to Alderson
There is no team speed. No lead off hitter and simply no way to manufacture runs
But I agree. Collins moves are questionable
It really seems like we are destined to repeat history of last season. Having to hear the same conversations from the booth about only scoring 2.5 runs per game over X games is disheartening. And it's only game 15, lol.
It really seems like we are destined to repeat history of last season. Having to hear the same conversations from the booth about only scoring 2.5 runs per game over X games is disheartening. And it's only game 15, lol.
I hate it, always have. Been pretty clear about that the last few years. But I will say - get used to it. Stats have "proven it works" and the rest of baseball is now fly ball happy.
Personally, I'd have built this team on pitching like they have. And modeled after the 80's Cardinals. Would have gone that route the second they decided to build Citifield. Would have been a MASSIVE home field advantage. Instead - the rebuilt the stadium. Twice.
As for speed and leadoff hitting, I feel like the game is changing. I don't there is as much importance on the leadoff hitter as there used to be. But they still need to get on base. They aren't the slowest team in the world (I think) but they don't employ smart baserunning either. Need to go first to third more on hits. Need to hit and run more. Create some offense, especially when things are getting stale.
I hate to place blame on one guy... but when the team is ice cold like this you got to turn to your superstar you are paying 25 million dollars to to lighten the load a bit. It's not fair. Everyone is hot and cold in a season but Cespedes gets just as cold as anyone and deserves more of the heat.
He'll be fine but the longer this continues the larger the spotlight will grow.
Just get to the playoffs. Then 50/50 chance your bats are hot and you go down in history.
Don't go there Phi. I almost got yelled about that exact same thing this morning lol
Just get to the playoffs. Then 50/50 chance your bats are hot and you go down in history.
+1000
I feel the same way.
Quote:
play through a little hurty anymore? You never used to see guys take themselves out of the game in the past. Hard-nosed players went away once the millions of $$$ started, lol.
Don't go there Phi. I almost got yelled about that exact same thing this morning lol
Haha. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
The guy who wasn't even ALLOWED to swing a bat last year. Is carrying our offense now.
Lol - even I don't blame him for not sliding lol
He had to tag him. If he actually runs hard and slides he could have made it. Maybe.
I only counted 8 steps...maybe 9. Let's not exaggerate.
Quote:
The throw beat him by 10 steps lol.
I only counted 8 steps...maybe 9. Let's not exaggerate.
;)
It's weird. I'm more patient with Granderson than Reyes. I wonder why that is.
He slipped, spun around and then landed awkwardly on his wrist. Got up shaking it. It looked like it may have been cut too.
Quote:
reyes and grandy need to ride pine
It's weird. I'm more patient with Granderson than Reyes. I wonder why that is.
because Granderson is on his patented early season slump. Then he heats up in the summer.
Quote:
Keep the pen sitting. Let Gsellman ride it out!
He slipped, spun around and then landed awkwardly on his wrist. Got up shaking it. It looked like it may have been cut too.
TdA hit his hand on the hitters bat on the follow through on his throw. Right hand contusion. That's why there was a cut on his hand.
Could it be, the moment we've all been waiting for?
PLAWECKIIIIIIIIIII TIIIIIIIIMMMMMMEEEEE
We suck.
Dude. Seriously fuck off.
Quote:
the Mets bullpen is among the best in the league.
Dude. Seriously fuck off.
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
basement of NL East right now
Quote:
In comment 13434916 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the Mets bullpen is among the best in the league.
Dude. Seriously fuck off.
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
I let your little comment slide without a peep last night but if you are going to act like a little fucking bitch every time the bullpen lets up a run get ready for a long season asshole. We had the number 2 pen in baseball last year. Period. We have yet to blow a game in the 9th with Familia out and guys like Blevins who gave up the lead the last two nights could have just as easily been in this game or not. Keep kicking rocks because we didn't sign Aroldis Chapman loser. LOL
Duda just solved our Conforto conundrum.
Does this comparison mean Jay Bruce is highly overrated and boring?
Quote:
quick, someone give him some data that says he'd hit more homers by playing 1B so Conforto can play every day.
Duda just solved our Conforto conundrum.
Assuming 1 of our OF'ers can play 1B.
Quote:
quick, someone give him some data that says he'd hit more homers by playing 1B so Conforto can play every day.
Duda just solved our Conforto conundrum.
No he didn't. Flores will play first so we can keep trotting Reyes out there.
Quote:
In comment 13434918 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434916 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the Mets bullpen is among the best in the league.
Dude. Seriously fuck off.
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
I let your little comment slide without a peep last night but if you are going to act like a little fucking bitch every time the bullpen lets up a run get ready for a long season asshole. We had the number 2 pen in baseball last year. Period. We have yet to blow a game in the 9th with Familia out and guys like Blevins who gave up the lead the last two nights could have just as easily been in this game or not. Keep kicking rocks because we didn't sign Aroldis Chapman loser. LOL
I don't care what you let slide. Who the fuck are you. I don't need your approval or permission to post anything on any thread.
You're a no one delusional homer fan who overrates just about every player on the team and in the minors.
The bullpen is a concern, not just now, but even with Familia, and especially should the Mets make the playoffs.
So yes, I'll be concerned about it and I'll voice my concern whether you like it or not.
while you continually remind us how great Reed is and how lights out studs like Sewald are (yes you said that).
Quote:
In comment 13434922 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434918 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13434916 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the Mets bullpen is among the best in the league.
Dude. Seriously fuck off.
How about you fuck off. We discussed this all off-season and you were so f-ing smug about it all off-season, that the bullpen was so solid filled with studs and nothing to worry about even without Familia.
While I was concerned this exact thing was going to happen.
And the Mets absolutely need a fast start to the season given the schedule.
so, I don't think I'll fuck off. but you're welcome to.
I let your little comment slide without a peep last night but if you are going to act like a little fucking bitch every time the bullpen lets up a run get ready for a long season asshole. We had the number 2 pen in baseball last year. Period. We have yet to blow a game in the 9th with Familia out and guys like Blevins who gave up the lead the last two nights could have just as easily been in this game or not. Keep kicking rocks because we didn't sign Aroldis Chapman loser. LOL
I don't care what you let slide. Who the fuck are you. I don't need your approval or permission to post anything on any thread.
You're a no one delusional homer fan who overrates just about every player on the team and in the minors.
The bullpen is a concern, not just now, but even with Familia, and especially should the Mets make the playoffs.
So yes, I'll be concerned about it and I'll voice my concern whether you like it or not.
while you continually remind us how great Reed is and how lights out studs like Sewald are (yes you said that).
You can voice your opinion whenever the fuck you want just like I can. My issue is with you turning into a twat making passive aggressive attacks every time the fucking pen lets up a run and acting like a two-year-old now every game. We all know you are coming at me. And no I never said Sewald was stud. I said he was an "upside option" this year. Look it up.
A lot of people share your view.
My comment was just venting my own frustration with the bullpen (something I thought would be a concern).
Needed this win.
A lot of people share your view.
My comment was just venting my own frustration with the bullpen (something I thought would be a concern).
Needed this win.
I genuinely thought you were attacking me the last two nights. If you weren't then I apologize completely.
Quote:
and was not meant to get a rise out of you. Honestly.
A lot of people share your view.
My comment was just venting my own frustration with the bullpen (something I thought would be a concern).
Needed this win.
I genuinely thought you were attacking me the last two nights. If you weren't then I apologize completely.
Come on, I think you know if I was going to say something to you I'd address you. Even if it was an attack.
]We have civilly debated this topic all off-season and so far this season.
No reason for me to not address you directly if I wanted to attack you, which is far too tiresome (I mean that as a compliment). even if we disagree about it.
Nice win, nice bounce back from Gsellman.
Quote:
In comment 13434953 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
and was not meant to get a rise out of you. Honestly.
A lot of people share your view.
My comment was just venting my own frustration with the bullpen (something I thought would be a concern).
Needed this win.
I genuinely thought you were attacking me the last two nights. If you weren't then I apologize completely.
Come on, I think you know if I was going to say something to you I'd address you. Even if it was an attack.
]We have civilly debated this topic all off-season and so far this season.
No reason for me to not address you directly if I wanted to attack you, which is far too tiresome (I mean that as a compliment). even if we disagree about it.
Nice win, nice bounce back from Gsellman.
Ok. Well I just thought this would be something that could be unbearable if we were going to continue this all year so I thought it was worth addressing. Sorry I flew off the handle. You know I liked the pen going in. Still do. I think its going to be fine. It's not the best ever or one for the record books or anything and they will give up runs. But I think it's very solid. My biggest concern is Familia in big spots actually. Time will tell.
Isnt it a funny game? Probably the number one guy everyone wanted gone or traded heading in.
And by that, I don't mean Jay Bruce is going to play at this level for 162 games.. but he's capable of having big-time impact for stretches.
Of course, with this, comes what we saw from him almost exclusively last year in his short time in Flushing. So, I expect the "bad" Bruce to show up again at some point this year - but if he balances it out by playing like this for stretches at a time, it'll be easier to deal with.
Im excited to make some changes tomorrow. We need to go back to a 5 man bench. If TDA and Duda are banged up there is going to be some major roster moves tomorrow. Of course we know Familia is activated also.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Quote:
A lot of strain on this pen in the early going.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Quote:
In comment 13434984 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
A lot of strain on this pen in the early going.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Ziegler and Holland were the 2 big misses. I know he'll get hot at some point and hit 10 homers in a month and make me eat my words, but bringing i'd much rather have spent the 17M they paid Walker in the bullpen and let 1 of Flores/Cecchini/Rivera take 2nd.
Zeigler would have been a nice add but he's old.
Again, we'll see how it plays out.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
I dont disagree. I wold have liked Zeigler.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
Yea, the only upside is the possibility of trading for someone better than what was available this offseason at the deadline.
Quote:
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Clippard, Reed, and Salas were all pretty much acquired for peanuts.
What I am concerned about is our all-stars performing. Time for Familia to be the man and shut teams down when it matters most. I've already seen the Benitez story. I don't want to see it again.
I honestly don't think we are renewing his contract this offseason. We need a more stable and healthier presence at 1B.
Quote:
In comment 13435010 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Sure. It's possible. If 6 guys are healthy and pitching though that means we have some depth and some wiggle room to possibly put Lugo in the pen. We'll see. Im fascinated to see how this season could play out. It could go so many different ways both in the rotation and lineup.
Quote:
for 2 months in 2015 it looked like he made a good decision and things have been all downhill since.
I honestly don't think we are renewing his contract this offseason. We need a more stable and healthier presence at 1B.
He's a FA and there's probably <1% they even offer him a contract.
But in some ways, the sooner Mets move on from him, Grandy, Reyes and Walker the better.
They have Flores, Cecchini, Conforto and Riveria (as a fill-in). If those guys are all in the lineup by the end of June, it will serve the Mets the best in the longrun.
Also love how baseball is such a balancing act, if we trade Bruce maybe we afford a better bullpen but we would have what 3 definite losses? However with a better bullpen maybe we win 3 more games this year.
One thing Terry does very well is always protects his players to the media. Players LOVE HIM for it.
BUT
on that play Ces tried to score... "I don't think it was that bad of a play". Come on Terry. He didn't get a good jump off the bat. Ran about 80% until HE decided he thought he could score. At that point he ran full speed, but RIGHT PAST HIS 3B coach giving him the stop sign.
I don't care about the result. Safe or out. You don't ignore your coaches. And as a coach, if my manager just OK'd it as opposed to reprimand the player, well... not picking, sure. But this isn't Monday morning QB. I bash this concept constantly,, and even the player. Can't let the narrative turn into "he hustled and tried to spark his struggling offense", which is exactly how it will. /endrant
But I assume he would give his vets some leeway and not micromanage
I've probably been the harshest on Jay Bruce on BBI so I certainly didn't see this coming but I'm glad it's happening. If Conforto really has figured it out then we're going to have an OF which can really mash.
No need to "give up" on Reyes yet, but he doesn't need to play every day either.
But for the life of me, I can't see how younger players love him. Especially when they are producing and, in some cases, carrying the team. His who preachy mantra of "if you hit, you play" apparently only applies to younger players, not his aging, underperforming vets.
Different rules for different players. TC has no feel for the game and let's the vets run the show. He's even said as much (which I guess is not uncommon for vets to run the clubhouse). I know I'm in the minority but I do believe this team would be much better without TC.
Ces ran through a stop sign - it happens. I don't think he needs to be chewed out for it. He got thrown out. He'll probably think better of it next time.
In terms of hustle and fundamentals, part of that may be on Collins style, but the other part is within the DNA of the players we have. On both accounts there's shared responsibility with those who assembled the roster in the first place, but also I think we need to understand there's always going to be the need to "take the good with the bad". No matter who his manager is, Cespedes is going to look lazy from time to time. Daniel Murphy's fundamentals will never be good running the bases or defensively. If we can't accept faults in players even if they have unique abilities and we want all try-hard types we'd need to be prepared to have a roster full of Brandon Nimmos.
Look at what happened with the Nationals when they went from Matt Williams to Dusty Baker. And at least Matt Williams won 97 games and was Mgr of the Year the season prior to being canned. Sometimes you need a culture of accountability to realize your potential. Of course, you also need the right players.
Is it really a stretch to consider that in a game where one player created all the scoring, and after a few games of not hitting or scoring, a player just got jumpy and wanted to make something happen?
Besides, isn't Collins retiring after the year? It's a bit late for wishing he would change his stripes.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Quote:
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
Worst wRC+ in MLB thus far
Byron Buxton -32
Devon Travis -29
Leonys Martin -15
Dansby Swanson -7
Jose Reyes -4
Paulo Orlando -1
Quote:
In comment 13435268 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
I'm not sure that's true. Look at Joe Torre. Mediocre managerial career until the Yankees and all of a sudden Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, plus all the other pieces wins a bunch of rings, playoffs every year, and now Torre is like the Yoda of managers and a hall of famer.
Probably others like him. Maybe Terry Francona.
I agree with you though baseball manager direct impact on wins/losses is relatively minor, however look at the standings, some years 1 game separates a team from playoffs and playing golf, or the WC game vs division winners or a play-in game just to make it to the WC, etc.
even if a manager can only directly impact the outcome of a handful of games, if it's on the negative side, that can be a big difference.
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
I agree.
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
Link - ( New Window )
Second of all, the Yankees (especially back then under Big Stein) were a uniquely difficult environment. Torre's outstanding gift as manager was his ability to handle Steinbrenner and the NY media. He was a native NYer and had managed the Mets, so he knew what the pressure is like. He played the beats like a Stradivarius. He was a laid-back guy by nature and set out to make the clubhouse as stress-free as possible. Because the dynasty Yankee teams were comprised of guys who were mostly quiet professional-types, it worked quite well.
He was the classic case of the right guy with the right situation. He never would have succeeded like that with another franchise, and (although I'm not a big fan of his) I don't think the Yankees would have been as successful with another manager.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Quote:
MLB PipelineVerified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
Quote:
One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.
Quote:
The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.
Link - ( New Window )
They don't pursue big money IFA's... Ever. Send a scout? Maybe. But since Kaz Matsui they haven't been heavily involved for any of these guys. Did finish #2 for Ichiro though! lol
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
It is stupid. They are risk adverse and that's the long and short of it. You could defend them if it was 1-2 guys who they didn't bid on who ended up good players but they all but sit out the Cuban/Japanese markets
Yeah, obviously hyperbole, it's like the guy is his agent, not a scout.
Quote:
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
Eh, not sure I agree with this. I'm on every met thread and fans are killing the players waaaaaay more than the manager. And that's saying something considering its Terry Collins. Fans will get on TC for his boneheaded moves but I think the discussion around the mets manager has been more about team philosophy and approach, than "Collins sucks" type of comments. At least, so far this year.
I know a lot of fans think otherwise, but managers can definitely affect how a team performs, for a variety of reasons. I just feel, and have always felt that TC is on the negative side of that.
As Greg said, Girardi has show the ability to get the most out of lesser talent. There is the value in a manager. Getting the most out of your players. I feel the opposite about Terry.
Quote:
In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
Well, compared to Terry Collins, he is. And the Cubs were, far and away, the best team in baseball last season. And, you know, he actually won the world series. Again, a manager that can get the most out of his players.
Quote:
In comment 13435771 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13435741 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
Yeah, don't mention that here... Maddon is apparently Jesus reincarnated. Nevermind the fact that Collins' team wiped the floor with Maddon's in the 2015 NLCS.
Well, compared to Terry Collins, he is. And the Cubs were, far and away, the best team in baseball last season. And, you know, he actually won the world series. Again, a manager that can get the most out of his players.
Yeah, I'm sure the Cubs winning the WS had nothing to do with an absolutely LOADED lineup full of young studs, excellent starting pitching, or an elite closer.
Just the brilliance of Joe Maddon...
Yeah, I'm sure the Cubs winning the WS had nothing to do with an absolutely LOADED lineup full of young studs, excellent starting pitching, or an elite closer.
Just the brilliance of Joe Maddon...
Of course it's about the players...but that doesn't mean that the manager has no affect. And based on our past conversations, we aren't going to agree on that because you place less importance on the manager than I do. Which is fine. I understand your side of it.
But I'll put it to you this way. Put Collins at the helm of the Cubs the last few years, and I don't think they win. It's a culture thing. And I don't think that Terry gets the most out of his players.
I'd rather have Bill Murray, lol.
I don't really understand that logic. Didn't Collins' just get the Mets to the WS the year before with arguably less talent than the Cubs had and sweep a team that Maddon managed in the process? Why couldn't Maddon get one win against us in the NLCS if he has as much impact as is being suggested?
I think Maddon gets too much credit for being "unconventional".. I think he's a good manager - I'd take him over Collins. But I feel like he's discussed as this Belichick-ian presence sometimes which never made sense to me.
I think most managers could have won a WS with the roster the Cubs had last year. Including Collins.
They were a young team just getting there, our pitching was fantastic, and Daniel Murphy went insane. That's why we beat them.
Then, they got better and the Mets got worse.
Again, I believe that Maddon manages up and Collins manages down. If I feel that Maddon gets the most out of his players and went to and won the WS, then why would I feel that they still get the same result when Collins DOESN'T get the most out of his players?
They were a young team just getting there, our pitching was fantastic, and Daniel Murphy went insane. That's why we beat them.
Then, they got better and the Mets got worse.
Again, I believe that Maddon manages up and Collins manages down. If I feel that Maddon gets the most out of his players and went to and won the WS, then why would I feel that they still get the same result when Collins DOESN'T get the most out of his players?
I wouldn't simply say the Mets got worse.
the Mets lost Harvey, deGrom, and Matz from that 2015 rotation. And Wright from the lineup. Wright was not awful in the NLDS.
So, yes they regressed, but injuries had more to do with it than simply getting worse.
Even without the Daniel Murphy FA loss.
Harvey and deGrom both went 7+ innings in that NLCS, in their only starts.
Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.
I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.
I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
well I don't think Terry is anything special and could be upgraded, but I also don't hold him solely accountable for the team performance in 2016 (good or bad)
Quote:
But our offense was awful last year, truly bad. I used to place most of the blame on injuries but also understood that we just have a flawed approach. And that's becoming more and more apparent.
Listen, I'm not going to sit here an bash TC all year because, frankly, I'm exhausted of that. TC is what he is, and that is a mediocre/below average manager. If he's not making his team better than he's making the team worse. And I don't feel he makes the team better.
I understand why some of you feel otherwise, but I also don't think that my viewpoint is difficult to believe. But I also don't want to make this whole season about Terry.
well I don't think Terry is anything special and could be upgraded, but I also don't hold him solely accountable for the team performance in 2016 (good or bad)
We agree on that.