Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Duda remarkably combines with unreliability with inconsistency
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Ziegler and Holland were the 2 big misses. I know he'll get hot at some point and hit 10 homers in a month and make me eat my words, but bringing i'd much rather have spent the 17M they paid Walker in the bullpen and let 1 of Flores/Cecchini/Rivera take 2nd.
Familia, Reed, Salas, Blevins, and Robles were all locks regardless if we brought somebody else in or not. Presumably, they would have left a spot for a long man like Lugo. So that's really it. If you believe in Smoker and think he'll be better than some of the guys that were available on the market then there was no room really. If you don't believe in him and think he's a turd then a vet makes a lot more sense. Time will tell I guess if the Mets guessed right.
I also dont think Holland was ever realistic at all.
He is the closer for a team that won the World Series a year and half ago and is making 7 million a year. We have no insight at all into if he would be willing to come here and be the 2nd or 3rd best option.
But the guy literally doesn't have one bad year to his name and he's off to a really nice start this year. He's been an incredibly consistent reliever for a decade now. 16M for 2 years was a very fair deal for a guy with his track record.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
But if I had to guess, Reed does regress some. He was just insane last year. I think he's the kind of guy that would be solid-ish as a closer on some teams but not elite. As a setup man though he' s obviously very good and I think he'll still crack 1 fWAR as a reliever which is very good this year. I think Salas is probably overrated actually. I think he's a solid middle relief guy, nothing more. I do like that he has a little closer experience though. Robles was actually pretty good last year ups and downs and all and Blevins is an excellent LOOGY. Where my confidence really comes from is yes.. depth.... I really like Smoker... I think Sewald and now McGowen could be depth later... Lugo and Matz are going to complicate things when they return and somebody like Lugo might be added as the long man... and... Some of our current starters might have to pitch in the pen in the playoffs. If we stay relatively healthy the pen is going to be packed.
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
But the guy literally doesn't have one bad year to his name and he's off to a really nice start this year. He's been an incredibly consistent reliever for a decade now. 16M for 2 years was a very fair deal for a guy with his track record.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
But the guy literally doesn't have one bad year to his name and he's off to a really nice start this year. He's been an incredibly consistent reliever for a decade now. 16M for 2 years was a very fair deal for a guy with his track record.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
Yea, the only upside is the possibility of trading for someone better than what was available this offseason at the deadline.
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Sandy has added a reliever and a big bat ever since we hit our "WS competing window". If we need to add another reliever we will. I'm not particularly concerned about it.
Clippard, Reed, and Salas were all pretty much acquired for peanuts.
What I am concerned about is our all-stars performing. Time for Familia to be the man and shut teams down when it matters most. I've already seen the Benitez story. I don't want to see it again.
RE: Duda remarkably combines with unreliability with inconsistency
1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Sure. It's possible. If 6 guys are healthy and pitching though that means we have some depth and some wiggle room to possibly put Lugo in the pen. We'll see. Im fascinated to see how this season could play out. It could go so many different ways both in the rotation and lineup.
RE: RE: Duda remarkably combines with unreliability with inconsistency
If Smith struggles all year in Vegas they might indeed try to get him at a friendly deal. In the least, Duda is getting a QO that he likely turns down IMO. Smith rakes all year then yeah.. I think they do let Duda walk.
seems like a great guy. Really humble whenever he speaks to the media.
But in some ways, the sooner Mets move on from him, Grandy, Reyes and Walker the better.
They have Flores, Cecchini, Conforto and Riveria (as a fill-in). If those guys are all in the lineup by the end of June, it will serve the Mets the best in the longrun.
Also love how baseball is such a balancing act, if we trade Bruce maybe we afford a better bullpen but we would have what 3 definite losses? However with a better bullpen maybe we win 3 more games this year.
But this morning it still bothers me. Combination of two conversations we just had. Hustle (or lack of) and Collins getting his players to work hard for him.
One thing Terry does very well is always protects his players to the media. Players LOVE HIM for it.
BUT
on that play Ces tried to score... "I don't think it was that bad of a play". Come on Terry. He didn't get a good jump off the bat. Ran about 80% until HE decided he thought he could score. At that point he ran full speed, but RIGHT PAST HIS 3B coach giving him the stop sign.
I don't care about the result. Safe or out. You don't ignore your coaches. And as a coach, if my manager just OK'd it as opposed to reprimand the player, well... not picking, sure. But this isn't Monday morning QB. I bash this concept constantly,, and even the player. Can't let the narrative turn into "he hustled and tried to spark his struggling offense", which is exactly how it will. /endrant
that win last night. Glad to see Gsellmen look as good as we know he can be.
I've probably been the harshest on Jay Bruce on BBI so I certainly didn't see this coming but I'm glad it's happening. If Conforto really has figured it out then we're going to have an OF which can really mash.
No need to "give up" on Reyes yet, but he doesn't need to play every day either.
It's not hard to understand why players love him (at least the vets)
No matter how much they suck, how bad their approach is, or their lack of hustle or focus...he let's them play. Zero accountability.
But for the life of me, I can't see how younger players love him. Especially when they are producing and, in some cases, carrying the team. His who preachy mantra of "if you hit, you play" apparently only applies to younger players, not his aging, underperforming vets.
Different rules for different players. TC has no feel for the game and let's the vets run the show. He's even said as much (which I guess is not uncommon for vets to run the clubhouse). I know I'm in the minority but I do believe this team would be much better without TC.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team. Maybe his bullpen management or lineups could be better. I doubt either would make a ton of difference in terms of wins and losses when all is said and done.
Ces ran through a stop sign - it happens. I don't think he needs to be chewed out for it. He got thrown out. He'll probably think better of it next time.
Managers are different than coaches in any other sport
the actual role of manager is much more about personality fit and keeping the team motivated and playing hard over the long haul - and in that regard he is a really good fit for this club. His BP management is not ideal but on the positive side in the playoffs a few years ago (and most big games last year) and we don't always have all of the information.
In terms of hustle and fundamentals, part of that may be on Collins style, but the other part is within the DNA of the players we have. On both accounts there's shared responsibility with those who assembled the roster in the first place, but also I think we need to understand there's always going to be the need to "take the good with the bad". No matter who his manager is, Cespedes is going to look lazy from time to time. Daniel Murphy's fundamentals will never be good running the bases or defensively. If we can't accept faults in players even if they have unique abilities and we want all try-hard types we'd need to be prepared to have a roster full of Brandon Nimmos.
Really can't bring myself to get worked up over a baserunning gaffe
either. It's better to look at the sum of the parts rather than just one specific scenario. I think it's more of a culture issue than an Xs and Os issue (which shouldn't be minimized either). Lack of accountability and fundamentals has been talked about with TC for years. This isn't a new thing. He has his favorites, caters to his favorites, mostly to the detriment of the team. Yes, I want veterans to be held accountable. They don't get a free pass because they are veterans. And if your vets have problem with that and cause issues in the clubhouse, then you have bigger problems.
Look at what happened with the Nationals when they went from Matt Williams to Dusty Baker. And at least Matt Williams won 97 games and was Mgr of the Year the season prior to being canned. Sometimes you need a culture of accountability to realize your potential. Of course, you also need the right players.
I'm sure we'll make a few other baserunning errors over the course of the season. Are there teams that this doesn't happen to? If so, I'd love to know who they are because I see other teams make equally egregious errors pretty regularly.
I feel like some of you are taking this as if it's unprecedented
That sometimes ballplayers make boneheaded mistakes.
Is it really a stretch to consider that in a game where one player created all the scoring, and after a few games of not hitting or scoring, a player just got jumpy and wanted to make something happen?
Besides, isn't Collins retiring after the year? It's a bit late for wishing he would change his stripes.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
hasn't said he's retiring, he's implied he's considered it. Supposedly Dick Scott would be a heavy favorite for the job. I'd love for them to hire A-Rod but I don't expect it.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
I'm not sure that's true. Look at Joe Torre. Mediocre managerial career until the Yankees and all of a sudden Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, plus all the other pieces wins a bunch of rings, playoffs every year, and now Torre is like the Yoda of managers and a hall of famer.
Probably others like him. Maybe Terry Francona.
I agree with you though baseball manager direct impact on wins/losses is relatively minor, however look at the standings, some years 1 game separates a team from playoffs and playing golf, or the WC game vs division winners or a play-in game just to make it to the WC, etc.
even if a manager can only directly impact the outcome of a handful of games, if it's on the negative side, that can be a big difference.
It goes both ways, though. Decisions that lead to wins are rarely talked about while decisions that lead to losses turn into "the manager is clueless"
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
It goes both ways, though. Decisions that lead to wins are rarely talked about while decisions that lead to losses turn into "the manager is clueless"
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
MLB PipelineVerified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
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One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.
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The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.
First of all, he was mediocre at best when it came to on the field decisions. He did OK when he had Zimmer as his bench coach. After Zimmer left, he was abysmal. He was one of the worst handlers of a bullpen I've ever seen, and over time his personnel decisions got worse and worse.
Second of all, the Yankees (especially back then under Big Stein) were a uniquely difficult environment. Torre's outstanding gift as manager was his ability to handle Steinbrenner and the NY media. He was a native NYer and had managed the Mets, so he knew what the pressure is like. He played the beats like a Stradivarius. He was a laid-back guy by nature and set out to make the clubhouse as stress-free as possible. Because the dynasty Yankee teams were comprised of guys who were mostly quiet professional-types, it worked quite well.
He was the classic case of the right guy with the right situation. He never would have succeeded like that with another franchise, and (although I'm not a big fan of his) I don't think the Yankees would have been as successful with another manager.
MLB PipelineVerified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
Quote:
One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.
Quote:
The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.
Link - ( New Window )
They don't pursue big money IFA's... Ever. Send a scout? Maybe. But since Kaz Matsui they haven't been heavily involved for any of these guys. Did finish #2 for Ichiro though! lol
I mean sure, some of these guys will flop (Rusney Castillo for one), but many won't and they're available for just cash.
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
I mean sure, some of these guys will flop (Rusney Castillo for one), but many won't and they're available for just cash.
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
It is stupid. They are risk adverse and that's the long and short of it. You could defend them if it was 1-2 guys who they didn't bid on who ended up good players but they all but sit out the Cuban/Japanese markets
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A lot of strain on this pen in the early going.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Quote:
In comment 13434984 arcarsenal said:
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A lot of strain on this pen in the early going.
Yep they played with fire and got a little burned. Imagine how things would be right now if Familia had gotten 30 or 40 games. I love Sandy but he brought them into the season at least 1 arm short.
Agreed. I really thought we needed to add one more guy. Blanton has been bad for WSH in the early going so that doesn't look like a big miss yet.. Zeigler would have been a great addition, though
Ziegler and Holland were the 2 big misses. I know he'll get hot at some point and hit 10 homers in a month and make me eat my words, but bringing i'd much rather have spent the 17M they paid Walker in the bullpen and let 1 of Flores/Cecchini/Rivera take 2nd.
Zeigler would have been a nice add but he's old.
Again, we'll see how it plays out.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
I dont disagree. I wold have liked Zeigler.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Oh well - what's done is done. Hopefully Familia coming back will give us the boost we need back there.
Yea, the only upside is the possibility of trading for someone better than what was available this offseason at the deadline.
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1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Clippard, Reed, and Salas were all pretty much acquired for peanuts.
What I am concerned about is our all-stars performing. Time for Familia to be the man and shut teams down when it matters most. I've already seen the Benitez story. I don't want to see it again.
I honestly don't think we are renewing his contract this offseason. We need a more stable and healthier presence at 1B.
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In comment 13435010 Eric on Li said:
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1. Lugo's best use to this team is as SP depth because if there's any team in the world that needs it, it's this one.
2. Holland got $6M for 1 year with an option and some incentives coming off surgery. If he would have turned down more money from a WS contender to go to Colorado he would have been the first pitcher to ever to do so. Pretty sure the myth about their school system has been thoroughly put to bed. Had anyone offered him $17M over 2 years he'd be there.
You know.. Ive been on the SP depth train with Lugo more than anyone but he'd obviously be good in the pen with that curveball and short bursts of velocity. Seems like the Mets were genuinely considering him there before the small tear was discovered in the spring. Now that there is a tear, I think it's even more likely he goes to the pen. Pitching less innings in a pen is likely better than pitching a full season starting between Vegas and Citi. Good news is Matz is now throwing too. Somebody is going to be odd man out. Does Gsellman go back to Vegas? Seems unthinkable but I cant see Wheeler or Matz going.
Who knows, maybe they go to the 6-man? If their biggest issue is not having room for Gsellman/Lugo i'd file that in the "good problems to have" category.
Sure. It's possible. If 6 guys are healthy and pitching though that means we have some depth and some wiggle room to possibly put Lugo in the pen. We'll see. Im fascinated to see how this season could play out. It could go so many different ways both in the rotation and lineup.
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for 2 months in 2015 it looked like he made a good decision and things have been all downhill since.
I honestly don't think we are renewing his contract this offseason. We need a more stable and healthier presence at 1B.
He's a FA and there's probably <1% they even offer him a contract.
But in some ways, the sooner Mets move on from him, Grandy, Reyes and Walker the better.
They have Flores, Cecchini, Conforto and Riveria (as a fill-in). If those guys are all in the lineup by the end of June, it will serve the Mets the best in the longrun.
Also love how baseball is such a balancing act, if we trade Bruce maybe we afford a better bullpen but we would have what 3 definite losses? However with a better bullpen maybe we win 3 more games this year.
One thing Terry does very well is always protects his players to the media. Players LOVE HIM for it.
BUT
on that play Ces tried to score... "I don't think it was that bad of a play". Come on Terry. He didn't get a good jump off the bat. Ran about 80% until HE decided he thought he could score. At that point he ran full speed, but RIGHT PAST HIS 3B coach giving him the stop sign.
I don't care about the result. Safe or out. You don't ignore your coaches. And as a coach, if my manager just OK'd it as opposed to reprimand the player, well... not picking, sure. But this isn't Monday morning QB. I bash this concept constantly,, and even the player. Can't let the narrative turn into "he hustled and tried to spark his struggling offense", which is exactly how it will. /endrant
But I assume he would give his vets some leeway and not micromanage
I've probably been the harshest on Jay Bruce on BBI so I certainly didn't see this coming but I'm glad it's happening. If Conforto really has figured it out then we're going to have an OF which can really mash.
No need to "give up" on Reyes yet, but he doesn't need to play every day either.
But for the life of me, I can't see how younger players love him. Especially when they are producing and, in some cases, carrying the team. His who preachy mantra of "if you hit, you play" apparently only applies to younger players, not his aging, underperforming vets.
Different rules for different players. TC has no feel for the game and let's the vets run the show. He's even said as much (which I guess is not uncommon for vets to run the clubhouse). I know I'm in the minority but I do believe this team would be much better without TC.
Ces ran through a stop sign - it happens. I don't think he needs to be chewed out for it. He got thrown out. He'll probably think better of it next time.
In terms of hustle and fundamentals, part of that may be on Collins style, but the other part is within the DNA of the players we have. On both accounts there's shared responsibility with those who assembled the roster in the first place, but also I think we need to understand there's always going to be the need to "take the good with the bad". No matter who his manager is, Cespedes is going to look lazy from time to time. Daniel Murphy's fundamentals will never be good running the bases or defensively. If we can't accept faults in players even if they have unique abilities and we want all try-hard types we'd need to be prepared to have a roster full of Brandon Nimmos.
Look at what happened with the Nationals when they went from Matt Williams to Dusty Baker. And at least Matt Williams won 97 games and was Mgr of the Year the season prior to being canned. Sometimes you need a culture of accountability to realize your potential. Of course, you also need the right players.
Is it really a stretch to consider that in a game where one player created all the scoring, and after a few games of not hitting or scoring, a player just got jumpy and wanted to make something happen?
Besides, isn't Collins retiring after the year? It's a bit late for wishing he would change his stripes.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
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I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
Worst wRC+ in MLB thus far
Byron Buxton -32
Devon Travis -29
Leonys Martin -15
Dansby Swanson -7
Jose Reyes -4
Paulo Orlando -1
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In comment 13435268 arcarsenal said:
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I still think people way over-emphasize the actual impact Terry has on this team.
Virtually all baseball fans do this. By any objective measure, Joe Girardi's teams have overachieved in the past few years. They haven't been particularly successful, but he's gotten the most out of rosters of limited talent. However, go on any Yankee thread here and it's a bunch of "Durrrrr Clueless Joe sux!" comments.
Yeah, I think baseball lends itself to paralysis by over-analysis sometimes. There's so much time to scrutinize every move because there's time between each play to do it.
I think a manger's job as a motivator is just as important as what he does as a tactician but think that neither have a major overall impact through the course of the season.
Compared to NFL coaches, the impact of a MLB manager is minimal.
Just seems like any time anything goes wrong, everyone always wants to blame the manager and not the players - but then when the players succeed, it has nothing to do with the manager. Weird double standard.
I'm not sure that's true. Look at Joe Torre. Mediocre managerial career until the Yankees and all of a sudden Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte, plus all the other pieces wins a bunch of rings, playoffs every year, and now Torre is like the Yoda of managers and a hall of famer.
Probably others like him. Maybe Terry Francona.
I agree with you though baseball manager direct impact on wins/losses is relatively minor, however look at the standings, some years 1 game separates a team from playoffs and playing golf, or the WC game vs division winners or a play-in game just to make it to the WC, etc.
even if a manager can only directly impact the outcome of a handful of games, if it's on the negative side, that can be a big difference.
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
I just think it gets talked about too much considering the lack of context. I can live with or without Terry. I just don't think people realize that this is the case with every manager in the league. They all do shit that doesn't make sense.. like Buck never even getting Zach Britton on the mound in a 1 game playoff last October.
I agree.
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
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Second of all, the Yankees (especially back then under Big Stein) were a uniquely difficult environment. Torre's outstanding gift as manager was his ability to handle Steinbrenner and the NY media. He was a native NYer and had managed the Mets, so he knew what the pressure is like. He played the beats like a Stradivarius. He was a laid-back guy by nature and set out to make the clubhouse as stress-free as possible. Because the dynasty Yankee teams were comprised of guys who were mostly quiet professional-types, it worked quite well.
He was the classic case of the right guy with the right situation. He never would have succeeded like that with another franchise, and (although I'm not a big fan of his) I don't think the Yankees would have been as successful with another manager.
Or Joe Maddon, every writer's favorite innovative manager, doing all sorts of questionable things that almost cost his team the championship.
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MLB PipelineVerified account @MLBPipeline 2m2 minutes ago
Cuban phenom Luis Robert cleared to sign with @MLB club. Which teams are in/out on "the best player on the planet?" http://atmlb.com/2pHGeOP
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One American League international scouting director described Robert, a right-handed hitter who profiles as center fielder with plus power and speed, as "the best player on the planet, and that's no exaggeration," Sanchez wrote earlier this year.
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The A's, Astros, Cardinals, White Sox, Padres and Reds are among the teams with strong interest in Robert, according to Sanchez.
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They don't pursue big money IFA's... Ever. Send a scout? Maybe. But since Kaz Matsui they haven't been heavily involved for any of these guys. Did finish #2 for Ichiro though! lol
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
Looking at the list of contenders, the Mets should be able to compete for this guy.
and I'm not saying be in on every one of them, you can't I get the INTL free agent market, but selectively a CF, who is the "best player on the planet" (LOL) might make sense.
It is stupid. They are risk adverse and that's the long and short of it. You could defend them if it was 1-2 guys who they didn't bid on who ended up good players but they all but sit out the Cuban/Japanese markets
Yeah, obviously hyperbole, it's like the guy is his agent, not a scout.