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| After over six months of silence, Phil Jackson finally spoke with the media last week. During his nearly hour-long press conference, Jackson addressed a broad range of issues. Many of them have been covered in depth, including his startling assessment of Carmelo Anthony and Melo’s future in New York, as well as his admission that he plans to take a more hands-on approach in practices next season. However, one topic that hasn’t been discussed much was Jackson alluding to, on numerous occasions, how the system he is running with the Knicks is similar to that of the San Antonio Spurs and the NFL’s New England Patriots. When asked about the Triangle, Phil’s meandering answer eventually led to him discussing current dynastic franchises and the men responsible for running them. Jackson explained that he believes it’s crucial to have a trusted template when you “build a system of anything.” Jackson elaborated on this point. “It’s no wonder the Spurs can have some success continuing their action,” Jackson said. “Or the Patriots can have success, because they can put people in places. We could do that with the Bulls and the Lakers. … You can have something that’s concrete.” “Whether it’s teams that I have coached or Belichick, there is an identifiable way in which they play. When you develop that system so that people are all on board with that system, then you have something that’s concrete. A format.” It all made sense, especially coming from one of the greatest coaches in NBA history. However, Phil is no longer a coach, which is part of the reason why his comments missed the mark. Also, the premise of his argument was off-base as well. |
well to be fair jordan, pippen and kobe did not win in any other system..
and shaq begged riley to fire stan van gundy for him to win another...
i think both are 2s that if they get moved will require a number 1 package to get them...
if i am the celtics i stand pat make good on the picks and set themselves up for the future
Lebron, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden, Greek Freak, Curry, Towns maybe I'm missing 1 or 2 but how many total players in the league are "clearly" better?
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In comment 13435349 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 13435321 ryanmkeane said:
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that things were so bad before Phil it was almost as if they couldn't get worse. And now look..
They still aren't worse. The Knicks are not in cap hell and they haven't continued to throw away first round picks in shitty trades. Things aren't GOOD, but people really choose to forget how awful the Knicks have been and for how long.
don't disagree, however even during the worst of the Isiah era, the Knicks were still seen as a destination. Phil has pretty much ruined that.
I guess we are fortunate that the new CBA puts less of an emphasis on being a "destination" team and instead emphasizes hitting on draft picks.
also true. But you don't want to be a team that players active try to avoid either. I'm not saying they're at that point yet, but belittling your star player through the media and sparring with guys like LeBron doesn't help.
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#1s in today's league? Says more about the teams at the top than either of those 2. That's why I think ainge is hesitant. I hold Butler in a little higher regard than PG personally, I wouldn't throw out PG as even a #2 option unless he was on San Antonio and MAYBE Houston but that's about it. Maybe butler as well.
i think both are 2s that if they get moved will require a number 1 package to get them...
if i am the celtics i stand pat make good on the picks and set themselves up for the future
I agree with you.
Just thinking about it practically. You replace Morris in Washington with PG/Butler, yeah I can see them taking on Cleveland. But do you give them more than a game against GS? Maybe 2. I guess you still do that trade just for a chance to get to the finals and then who knows what happens.
I just think Boston is much greater than the sum of their parts in the regular season. Playoff wise they are the equivalent of a 6-7 seed, they're gonna need both Butler AND PG to get in to the discussion with Cleveland IMO.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. BB has a great, but also adaptive quarterback at his disposal. He hit the jackpot with Brady, and he adjusts very well - maybe better than anyone in the history of coaching, who is not named Popovich.
Lebron, Leonard, Westbrook, Harden, Greek Freak, Curry, Towns maybe I'm missing 1 or 2 but how many total players in the league are "clearly" better?
I dont think Butler is a guy who can be the #1 player on a title team, but I might be wrong. Im a bit more sure about PG. Both would be at least good #2s.
To address your point, I dont think that everyone on that list is necessarily good enough to be the best player on a title team. Towns is not. Harden and Westbrook have opened my eyes this year but are still borderline. GF is so talented -- I want to say not yet but who knows.
Key is that these are rough definitions. You dont NEED at #1 player to win a title (2004 Pistons). I'd argue Dirk was not a top 5 player the year Dallas won. But generally, titles are won by guys who are often high up in the MVP convo.
Even Lebron can not do it by himself..
for warriors it took green becoming a supeestar for them to take next step..
the pistons had 5 all stars..
Dirk had aging players around him but smart players who knew their role and played it perfectly and a hall of fame coach
Dirk got his title in a little gap between when the Lakers/Celtics and even Spurs were on the downturn and Lebron was still adjusting with his Miami teammates.
2004 seems to be more of an anomaly than a representation of how to build a team to win. I could be wrong, I was little so I don't know if that's an accurate assessment at all.
I want to root for the Bucks, but the raptors offer many possibilities between having bad contracts and some young assets that won't get any burn over the coming years. I'd LOVE to get Norman Powell or even Delon Wright. Siakim and Noguiera may be nice throw ins.
Would anyone be opposed to a deal like Melo and KOQ for Carroll, JV, Joseph and Powell?
also true. But you don't want to be a team that players active try to avoid either. I'm not saying they're at that point yet, but belittling your star player through the media and sparring with guys like LeBron doesn't help.
LeBron went back to play for a guy who basically told him to drop dead in "The Letter". He went back because of Kyrie, Wiggins (as an asset to get Love), and the money. If the Knicks have players and money, they'll have no problems getting free agents.
However, we shouldn't be worrying about big name free agents for a while. Let's build with KP, Willy, a pair of lottery picks the next 2 years, and hopefully Melo can yield a 1st round pick sometime soon.
are you sure about that? Last summer they had Melo and KP and tons of cap space to offer free agents....all they managed to attract was a broken down Noah and a nice player but never an all-star in Lee. And they couldn't even get a meeting with Durant or even Horford.
Sergio wasn't even that good for Philly but I wonder what this team's record would have been if they had just signed Sergio last summer instead of doing the Rose/Noah moves.
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know, I know the topic everyone has been wondering about... Sergio Rodriguez announces he intends to remain in the NBA... do it.
Sergio wasn't even that good for Philly but I wonder what this team's record would have been if they had just signed Sergio last summer instead of doing the Rose/Noah moves.
Oh for the record I'm not even suggesting he is all that good. 85% of his value (to me) is developing KP/Willy and his relationship with both. He's also a player who seemingly knows his role (which means if we draft a PG he's not going to be a quitting turd when the time comes for the rookie to take over). On the court 37% from 3, almost certainly not a guy you have to give big years to. Let's face it, they aren't going to go with 15 rookies. A guy like Sergio is the kind of veteran we should be looking at, not loser Derrick Rose.
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If the Knicks have players and money, they'll have no problems getting free agents.
are you sure about that? Last summer they had Melo and KP and tons of cap space to offer free agents....all they managed to attract was a broken down Noah and a nice player but never an all-star in Lee. And they couldn't even get a meeting with Durant or even Horford.
No high level free agents go anywhere (including NY) that doesn't have a clear path to winning. Phil, Pat Riley, and Red Auerbach couldn't have gotten good players to come here last offseason. Durant didn't seriously consider his hometown team with John Wall... why would we expect him to waste his time with the Knicks?
Carmelo Anthony is NOT a player people are flocking to play with at this point in his career. KP is still a baby. If the Knicks' roster in 2-3 years has 3 good young players on it, they'll be a target for high-level free agents regardless of what Phil has said about anyone.
sort of related, but Melo is pretty well liked around the league by other players. He's even friends with Kobe, who's friends with nobody. I do think it's possible Phil's treatment of Melo has not gone unnoticed. The players association certainly noticed.
on what planet is horford a superstar? he is a very good player but guess what boston is still in the exaxt same.positon as they were last year even with horford, he was not a game changer..
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Knicks fans are much more down on Carmelo than NBA players are.
sort of related, but Melo is pretty well liked around the league by other players. He's even friends with Kobe, who's friends with nobody. I do think it's possible Phil's treatment of Melo has not gone unnoticed. The players association certainly noticed.
so did gilberts treatment of lebron? how about riley basically calling lebron a coward? how about riley not even calling wade on the phone during free agency?
players do not care about the people in charge when pocking a team, they care about the other players on the floor with them..
the heat were formed because miami could fit 3 guys, wade said himself the reason they chose miami is because they could fit all 3 guys, no one else could
Problem is they have 27 million owed to Noah and Lance and another 12 to Lee who will be 34 entering that season. This is why I don't understand fans who say these contracts don't hurt the Knicks. They may not hurt this season or next, but down the line they will.
The only good thing about Dolan is that he allows his teams to operate without a budget. If they ever built a homegrown core they could spend big to go over the cap because they luxury tax is meaningless to them.
I wish Phil had this type of long term thinking in mind, but does anyone really think he'll be around in 2019 anyway? Can't wait for him to compound his mistakes by throwing more money at the Holiday brothers or paying a PJ tucker 12 mill a year to help the defense.
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In comment 13435736 Deej said:
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Knicks fans are much more down on Carmelo than NBA players are.
sort of related, but Melo is pretty well liked around the league by other players. He's even friends with Kobe, who's friends with nobody. I do think it's possible Phil's treatment of Melo has not gone unnoticed. The players association certainly noticed.
so did gilberts treatment of lebron? how about riley basically calling lebron a coward? how about riley not even calling wade on the phone during free agency?
players do not care about the people in charge when pocking a team, they care about the other players on the floor with them..
the heat were formed because miami could fit 3 guys, wade said himself the reason they chose miami is because they could fit all 3 guys, no one else could
Wade specifically said on Wojs podcast that they considered NY but decided against it because of the unstable management.
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he took meetings with teams other than GS.
nobody said he was a superstar. But the more you denigrate his game the more you make my point. They couldn't even get a meeting with a guy of his caliber.
this off season will make or break their future, either they embrace the rebuild and build around kp or they go for another quick fix in wbich case phil loses all pf my sympathy
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In comment 13435744 Enzo said:
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In comment 13435736 Deej said:
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Knicks fans are much more down on Carmelo than NBA players are.
sort of related, but Melo is pretty well liked around the league by other players. He's even friends with Kobe, who's friends with nobody. I do think it's possible Phil's treatment of Melo has not gone unnoticed. The players association certainly noticed.
so did gilberts treatment of lebron? how about riley basically calling lebron a coward? how about riley not even calling wade on the phone during free agency?
players do not care about the people in charge when pocking a team, they care about the other players on the floor with them..
the heat were formed because miami could fit 3 guys, wade said himself the reason they chose miami is because they could fit all 3 guys, no one else could
Wade specifically said on Wojs podcast that they considered NY but decided against it because of the unstable management.
which is funny because knicks couldnt afford them anyway so thats a nice easy out..
knicks management at the time was built with respected guys around the league and a winning coach, so shouldnt that tell you it really was not the management?
and it was a coach who supposedly had great relationships with all 3 guys because of the usa team..
which just shows ot doesnt matter who is in management
he could have? then why didnt he? he traded a 1st to get rid of jefferies to clear cap, how come he didnt do it for curry?
he sold low on every deal he made, so if it was so easy why didnt he do it?
tell it to Berman who still thinks Wily came from a purchased pick.
good thing knicks replenished with other teams 2nd round picks, otherwise they would have none
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room for a third guy, he could have done it easily. Attach an asset or two to Curry's contract and there's close to a max deal right there ...and just let Lee leave as a free agent instead of taking back Turiaf and the other crap Walsh got for him.
he could have? then why didnt he? he traded a 1st to get rid of jefferies to clear cap, how come he didnt do it for curry?
he sold low on every deal he made, so if it was so easy why didnt he do it?
um, he didn't because the big 3 weren't coming.
he made that trade blindly, why wouldnt he trade curry if he could? wouldnt his pitch been a lot better if he said i can fit 3 guys?..
he made that trade blindly, why wouldnt he trade curry if he could? wouldnt his pitch been a lot better if he said i can fit 3 guys?..
his "pitch" was dead in the water so it didn't matter. You really think he couldn't have moved Curry if he wanted to? Attach Gallo to his deal and teams with cap space would have been jumping at that. Hell, Toronto would have taken that back in a sign-and-trade for Bosh.
Problem is they have 27 million owed to Noah and Lance and another 12 to Lee who will be 34 entering that season. This is why I don't understand fans who say these contracts don't hurt the Knicks. They may not hurt this season or next, but down the line they will.
The only good thing about Dolan is that he allows his teams to operate without a budget. If they ever built a homegrown core they could spend big to go over the cap because they luxury tax is meaningless to them.
I wish Phil had this type of long term thinking in mind, but does anyone really think he'll be around in 2019 anyway? Can't wait for him to compound his mistakes by throwing more money at the Holiday brothers or paying a PJ tucker 12 mill a year to help the defense.
I think Lee can easily be moved if they really needed to clear space. The 2019 offseason seems like a good plan to pull out of the tank. Ideally KP would be good enough on his own where they can organically win ~40 games with decent draft picks and Willy's development.
WCS
Bogdanović
Big Papa
Labissiere
Hield
+ 2 lottery picks
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when he trsded a 1st round pick to get rid of jefferies...
he made that trade blindly, why wouldnt he trade curry if he could? wouldnt his pitch been a lot better if he said i can fit 3 guys?..
his "pitch" was dead in the water so it didn't matter. You really think he couldn't have moved Curry if he wanted to? Attach Gallo to his deal and teams with cap space would have been jumping at that. Hell, Toronto would have taken that back in a sign-and-trade for Bosh.
so you would of been willing to trade gallo just to trade curry?
and no i dont think he would of been able to trade curry...
bogut said he knew if they didnt win the championship that dirant was coming he heard the talk in the locker room
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That should be the year the Knicks truly target big free agents and try to become a contender. Hopefully you will have KP, Willy, 2017 pick, 2018 pick and hopefully a few other pieces they pick up. KP will be a restricted free agent and they could do what the Spurs did what Kawhi with a wink wink deal and have the ability to go over the cap. Willy will also be locked up for 1.5 mill which is nuts if he pans out at all.
Problem is they have 27 million owed to Noah and Lance and another 12 to Lee who will be 34 entering that season. This is why I don't understand fans who say these contracts don't hurt the Knicks. They may not hurt this season or next, but down the line they will.
The only good thing about Dolan is that he allows his teams to operate without a budget. If they ever built a homegrown core they could spend big to go over the cap because they luxury tax is meaningless to them.
I wish Phil had this type of long term thinking in mind, but does anyone really think he'll be around in 2019 anyway? Can't wait for him to compound his mistakes by throwing more money at the Holiday brothers or paying a PJ tucker 12 mill a year to help the defense.
I think Lee can easily be moved if they really needed to clear space. The 2019 offseason seems like a good plan to pull out of the tank. Ideally KP would be good enough on his own where they can organically win ~40 games with decent draft picks and Willy's development.
Totally agree about Lee. Really liked how he played this year. A littler overrated defensively but I think a little underrated offensively. Hopefully he becomes more aggressive.
I just really wish Phil didn't include the 4 years on the Noah and Thomas deals. You definitely hope KP and the picks grow into a contender in the years to come, but it sure would be nice to have that 27 million to spend to augment them. Especially when they are in their rookie deals. Similar to what the Warriors did signing Iggy.
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Well, first and foremost Phil thought we could get back to competition sooner rather than later. We were a 50+ win team with Melo and UFAs a few years before. Could be again.
Second, Phil thought we'd lose Melo for nothing without the NTC, and that is bad asset management. I wont say the current situation is worst case scenario but it is a better bad case. Melo unwelcome but unwilling to waive. Teams he might be interested in are utterly devoid of young talent and tradeable picks. Still, lets see what we get for him. Unless you have to attach an asset to move Melo (0% chance), what's the downside? That giving Melo the NTC made us trade him for less than we otherwise could have?