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Bob McGinn--Ranking the OL....

Milton : 4/21/2017 9:03 am
The anonymous scouts chime in.
No surprises.... - ( New Window )
Some surprising Wonderlicks at the top  
Jay in Toronto : 4/21/2017 9:10 am : link
OL guys are supposed to be the smartest.

Underwhelmed in general.
Yep terrible year for us to need OT help  
Torrag : 4/21/2017 9:12 am : link
oh well.
Ramcyzk as a second rounder is  
ajr2456 : 4/21/2017 9:16 am : link
most likely correct and is exactly why we should take the RB, TE, DL, DB, WR over any offensive lineman at 23.
RE: Some surprising Wonderlicks at the top  
jeff57 : 4/21/2017 9:23 am : link
In comment 13436934 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
OL guys are supposed to be the smartest.

Underwhelmed in general.

Lamp and Moton did just fine though.
RE: Yep terrible year for us to need OT help  
Milton : 4/21/2017 9:26 am : link
In comment 13436938 Torrag said:
Quote:
oh well.
It could work in the Giants favor because it means one or more of the OT's with 1st round grades could fall to the Giants at #23.
p.s.--That would be quite a score if the Giants could get their top rated OL with the 23rd pick! Fingers crossed, my friend....
RE: RE: Some surprising Wonderlicks at the top  
Milton : 4/21/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13436957 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13436934 Jay in Toronto said:


Quote:


OL guys are supposed to be the smartest.

Underwhelmed in general.


Lamp and Moton did just fine though.
I've read that it's more important for interior OL to be smart than at OT but that score of 9 by Bolles is pretty scary.
McGinn is consistently very good  
Bill2 : 4/21/2017 9:38 am : link
Im sorry we need an OL. Over drafting that list to fit need is the way you never fix your team
Draft Robinson and stick him at RG  
edavisiii : 4/21/2017 9:41 am : link
If he gets better and Fluker leaves you can move out to RT next year, possibly a LT down the road. Try to grab one of the Tackles that has the feet but lacks strength later in the draft.
if he is there (hit submit too soon)  
edavisiii : 4/21/2017 9:43 am : link
we could do the same with Lamp...who knows, i think the 1st 22 picks are going to be harder to predict than any year we have seen. That's why these mock drafts crack me up!
RE: RE: Some surprising Wonderlicks at the top  
njm : 4/21/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13436957 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 13436934 Jay in Toronto said:


Quote:


OL guys are supposed to be the smartest.

Underwhelmed in general.


Lamp and Moton did just fine though.


True. Based on the article and previous reports I'd love to get Moton in the 2nd.
. . . .  
jeff57 : 4/21/2017 9:55 am : link
According to Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football," here are the average score of a NFL player by position:

•Offensive tackle - 26
•Center - 25
•Quarterback - 24
•Guard - 23
•Tight end - 22
•Safety - 19
•Linebacker - 19
•Cornerback - 18
•Wide receiver - 17
•Fullback - 17
•Running back - 16

Link - ( New Window )
RE: McGinn is consistently very good  
Milton : 4/21/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13436985 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Im sorry we need an OL. Over drafting that list to fit need is the way you never fix your team
You don't have to overdraft if you're in the right place at the right time. There were three with 1st round grades and two more that got the 1st-2nd round distinction. And then a few more with 2nd round grades or 2nd-3rd round grades. It's not that OL is empty of talent, it's just that it is a shallow pool.

If you're not drafting in the top ten it really doesn't matter that there aren't any OL worthy of going in the top ten. The downside is that teams drafting in the top ten may "overdraft" but assuming that not to be the case, the Giants could be sitting pretty to grab one of the big three if the grades that these scouts put on them is similar to the grades the Giants give them.

Hard to tell how the Giants view Bolles or Ramczyk, but history tells us the Giants will have a very high grade on Cam Robinson. 21 years old, three year starter at left tackle vs SEC competition, National Champion, Outland Trophy winner, never missed a start, 35 1/2 inch arms, 10 1/2 inch hands, 5.15 forty at 322lbs, son of a former NFL player (Steve Foley), and while his score of 16 on the wonderlic was nothing to write home about, it's not red flag territory.

Man oh man if Cam Robinson is somehow still available when the Giants are on the clock then watch out for flying champagne corks in the Big Blue War Room.
RE: RE: RE: Some surprising Wonderlicks at the top  
Milton : 4/21/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13437001 njm said:
Quote:
Based on the article and previous reports I'd love to get Moton in the 2nd.
I like Moton, but would prefer Dawkins or Garcia in round two if it's between the three of them. But what the hell do I know, we'll find out in 6 1/2 days what the Giants think. Or not. It all depends on how they fly off the board.
ummm, anyone else seeing Chinese in that last post by Jeff?  
TheMcThrill : 4/21/2017 10:22 am : link
shitty year to need offensive lineman, even if the Giants have their pick of all of them, I think there are better players that can be had at 23.
I'm reminded of the 1997 draft (which was just yesterday btw)...  
Milton : 4/21/2017 10:30 am : link
When the Giants selected Ike Hilliard with the 7th pick there were some who called it a reach. George Young scoffed, "I beg your pardon, did you not see the Sugar Bowl" or words to that effect.

p.s.--In one of my mock drafts that year I had the Giants taking both Hilliard and Barber. Only thing was that I had them taking them in rounds 2 and 3 (I had them taking Dwayne Rudd in round one). But that was a mock I put together in March. By April it was clear that Hilliard would be a 1st round pick and Barber a 2nd round pick.

Another bit of history from that draft, in the war room some of the scouts (and I think Fassel) were wearing "I like Ike" buttons and there was quite a heated argument over whether they should take Hilliard or Tiki with that 7th overall pick (that's how much they loved Tiki). Later in the 1st round Fassel started bugging Young that they should trade up for Tiki, but George resisted (trading up or down was never his style). After they got Tiki in round two, one of the scouts that was hawking him in round one was still pouting. Fassel asked him, "What are you pouting about, we got your man," to which the scout replied, "yeah, but the wrong guy is going to get the big money." Or words to that effect, I'm going off memory.
Pretty damning  
lugnut : 4/21/2017 10:34 am : link
Even everyone's current darling, Lamp, is just "a good third or fourth rounder," according to McGinn.

The ONLY one I get the warm and fuzzies for is Moton.
RE: Draft Robinson and stick him at RG  
Carson53 : 4/21/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13436987 edavisiii said:
Quote:
If he gets better and Fluker leaves you can move out to RT next year, possibly a LT down the road. Try to grab one of the Tackles that has the feet but lacks strength later in the draft.
.

John Jerry is your RG, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD.
You don't have to like it, but you might want to accept it.
They didn't bring him back on a multi-year deal, to be a backup to Fluker.
I think Cam, Lamp, Ram, and perhaps Bolles would all be good  
PatersonPlank : 4/21/2017 10:54 am : link
picks at #23. Sy had all ranked value-wise low first/high second, which is right where we are. Robinson could step right in at RT or RG, Lamp at RG, Ram and Bolles RT.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Some surprising Wonderlicks at the top  
Carson53 : 4/21/2017 10:58 am : link
In comment 13437044 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13437001 njm said:


Quote:


Based on the article and previous reports I'd love to get Moton in the 2nd.

I like Moton, but would prefer Dawkins or Garcia in round two if it's between the three of them. But what the hell do I know, we'll find out in 6 1/2 days what the Giants think. Or not. It all depends on how they fly off the board.
.

I would prefer a Garcia in Rd. 2 as well, if he is still there. I just can't get excited about the three supposed best LT's in this particular draft at # 23.
The more you keep reading, the more red flags I see.
Robinson to me reminds too much of Flowers coming out.
He is not quite as raw, but still has too many flaws.
I'd  
ryanmkeane : 4/21/2017 11:02 am : link
be happy with either Lamp or Robinson at 23. Ramcyzk and Bolles ...just not excited about them. Lamp seems to be the best "player" of the bunch. Pugh-Richburg-Lamp in the middle is quite tasty.
RE: . . . .  
Carson53 : 4/21/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13437007 jeff57 said:
Quote:
According to Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football," here are the average score of a NFL player by position:

•Offensive tackle - 26
•Center - 25
•Quarterback - 24
•Guard - 23
•Tight end - 22
•Safety - 19
•Linebacker - 19
•Cornerback - 18
•Wide receiver - 17
•Fullback - 17
•Running back - 16 Link - ( New Window )


Dr. Z, I remember him. I also recall a story done on him
a couple years ago, the NFLN? Can't recall the network?
Anyhow, not in good health, in a wheelchair, etc.
His wife has been his caretaker for the most part.
I wonder if this 'graph' if you will was done years ago,
or more recently?
RE: Pretty damning  
Milton : 4/21/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13437083 lugnut said:
Quote:
Even everyone's current darling, Lamp, is just "a good third or fourth rounder," according to McGinn.
Not according to McGinn, but according to one anonymous scout who may or may not have an agenda.
Yeah  
ryanmkeane : 4/21/2017 12:00 pm : link
I'm sorry but Lamp being a good third or fourth rounder is complete and utter nonsense.
No worries  
Jimmy Googs : 4/21/2017 1:17 pm : link
Its not like we really need OL...
'It could work in the Giants favor'...  
Torrag : 4/21/2017 1:19 pm : link
Yes, it could if we're smart enough not to force yet another OL pick when the talent is better at other positions. Good point Milton.
It may not be a good year for OTs, but it's not bad for OGs.  
Klaatu : 4/21/2017 1:22 pm : link
And it's not like we couldn't use a little more quality depth at OG, or a potential starter in a year or two.
RE: 'It could work in the Giants favor'...  
Milton : 4/21/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13437404 Torrag said:
Quote:
Yes, it could if we're smart enough not to force yet another OL pick when the talent is better at other positions. Good point Milton.
Yup. They aren't going to force an OL pick. If they select one, it will be because he was BPA.
p.s.--I found the quote I was looking for...
Quote:
NFL personnel director: "That (low score on the Wonderlic) isn't a big deal for tackles. It's more of a big deal for guards."
'it will be because he was BPA'...  
Torrag : 4/21/2017 2:20 pm : link
...don't hold your breath on that.
RE: 'it will be because he was BPA'...  
Milton : 4/21/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13437542 Torrag said:
Quote:
...don't hold your breath on that.
All I ever hope for going into a draft is that the one or two prospects I favor is/are available when the Giants are on the clock. If the Giants then pass over them, I'm fine with it because I recognize that they have much more experience at this and are operating on much more information than I have at my disposal. In 1999 all I wanted was that either Aaron Gibson or LJ Shelton be available when the Giants were on the clock with the 19th pick in round one. When it got to the 18th pick I breathed a sigh of relief (because I didn't have you to advise me not to hold my breath) knowing that at least one of the two would be available with the following pick. And then the Raiders picked Stinchcomb and I thought great, they will their choice. And then they took Luke Petitgout, who had mostly been pegged as an early 2nd round pick (although he was the proverbial late riser). And I was perfectly fine with it because what the hell do I know compared to the Giants scouts and coaches.

At least my two guys got their day in court. I would've been disappointed had they been selected with the 17th and 18th picks and I never got to truly know who the Giants preferred. And so it is with this draft. I just want Cam Robinson to be available with the 23rd pick. If the Giants pass on him for Jarrad Davis, I'll be excited about Jarrad Davis.
RE: RE: 'it will be because he was BPA'...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/21/2017 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13437592 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13437542 Torrag said:


Quote:


...don't hold your breath on that.

All I ever hope for going into a draft is that the one or two prospects I favor is/are available when the Giants are on the clock. If the Giants then pass over them, I'm fine with it because I recognize that they have much more experience at this and are operating on much more information than I have at my disposal. In 1999 all I wanted was that either Aaron Gibson or LJ Shelton be available when the Giants were on the clock with the 19th pick in round one. When it got to the 18th pick I breathed a sigh of relief (because I didn't have you to advise me not to hold my breath) knowing that at least one of the two would be available with the following pick. And then the Raiders picked Stinchcomb and I thought great, they will their choice. And then they took Luke Petitgout, who had mostly been pegged as an early 2nd round pick (although he was the proverbial late riser). And I was perfectly fine with it because what the hell do I know compared to the Giants scouts and coaches.

At least my two guys got their day in court. I would've been disappointed had they been selected with the 17th and 18th picks and I never got to truly know who the Giants preferred. And so it is with this draft. I just want Cam Robinson to be available with the 23rd pick. If the Giants pass on him for Jarrad Davis, I'll be excited about Jarrad Davis.

Milton - I have given you plenty of crap about your overt preference for Robinson, but I wanted to say that this message really helped me understand how you look at it.
RE: RE: RE: 'it will be because he was BPA'...  
Milton : 4/21/2017 5:36 pm : link
In comment 13437811 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:

Milton - I have given you plenty of crap about your overt preference for Robinson, but I wanted to say that this message really helped me understand how you look at it.
See I'm not such a bad guy after all!
RE: RE: RE: RE: 'it will be because he was BPA'...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/21/2017 7:35 pm : link
In comment 13437891 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13437811 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:



Milton - I have given you plenty of crap about your overt preference for Robinson, but I wanted to say that this message really helped me understand how you look at it.

See I'm not such a bad guy after all!

I never thought you were! Now Cam Robinson on the other hand... 😜
RE:Milton, I commend you.  
GMen23 : 4/22/2017 7:55 pm : link
You have Championed the cause, that the Offensive Line is #1 on your list. I’ve been marching with you. As the draft nears, I am starting to feel, Reese could do one of his 20 second selections for Lamp or Robinson, and I’d be happy. However, short of of one of those 2, getting to 23, BPA may be elsewhere.

And you have been continually true to you want BPA no matter what position it is, as this posts state. Like you if it’s Davis I’m hoping he is a star also, just hoping OLine gets a boost. We're Big Blue Fans first.


In comment 13437592 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13437542 Torrag said:


Quote:


...don't hold your breath on that.

All I ever hope for going into a draft is that the one or two prospects I favor is/are available when the Giants are on the clock. If the Giants then pass over them, I'm fine with it because I recognize that they have much more experience at this and are operating on much more information than I have at my disposal. In 1999 all I wanted was that either Aaron Gibson or LJ Shelton be available when the Giants were on the clock with the 19th pick in round one. When it got to the 18th pick I breathed a sigh of relief (because I didn't have you to advise me not to hold my breath) knowing that at least one of the two would be available with the following pick. And then the Raiders picked Stinchcomb and I thought great, they will their choice. And then they took Luke Petitgout, who had mostly been pegged as an early 2nd round pick (although he was the proverbial late riser). And I was perfectly fine with it because what the hell do I know compared to the Giants scouts and coaches.

At least my two guys got their day in court. I would've been disappointed had they been selected with the 17th and 18th picks and I never got to truly know who the Giants preferred. And so it is with this draft. I just want Cam Robinson to be available with the 23rd pick. If the Giants pass on him for Jarrad Davis, I'll be excited about Jarrad Davis.
RE: RE:Milton, I commend you.  
Milton : 4/22/2017 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13438636 GMen23 said:
Quote:
You have Championed the cause, that the Offensive Line is #1 on your list. I’ve been marching with you. As the draft nears, I am starting to feel, Reese could do one of his 20 second selections for Lamp or Robinson, and I’d be happy. However, short of of one of those 2, getting to 23, BPA may be elsewhere.

And you have been continually true to you want BPA no matter what position it is, as this posts state. Like you if it’s Davis I’m hoping he is a star also, just hoping OLine gets a boost. We're Big Blue Fans first.
Thanks for the props! The draft can't get here soon enough. Always a fun time no matter who gets picked.
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