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NFT: Knicks Chat: Go Bulls!

DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 9:40 am
Go Bulls! A Bulls series win could 1. Prompt the Celtics to look into Melo 2. Prompt the Bulls into thinking they are "close" and add Melo

-Lebron is ridiculous

- Francesa chimed in on KP (linked below)

- Bucks aren't beating the Cavs but talk about an interesting team headed in the right direction...
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I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:26 pm : link
fully believe Smart, one young chip and a "future" pick is something both sides would be interested in.
Change Smart  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:43 pm : link
to Rozier and a discussion can be had ....


have to remember we need a true center as well (which is a bigger issue than an additional scorer)

76ers will make a deal this summer we can get Hayward time is on our side ...
Not sure how rozier would work better  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 3:54 pm : link
Than smart. Smarts hitting RFA so there are reasons the C's would be more interested in parting with smart.

I also would prefer Smart too. I've soured on him but if in the very off chance he becomes a half decent 3 point shooter you have a very good player on your hands. On the flip side, rozier is a 6'1" combo guard, it's hard envisioning him as anything more than a 6th man. Smart at least can guard multiple questions (up to the 4 in some situations).
Hayward  
Deej : 4/21/2017 3:57 pm : link
Why do people think he's gonna move? Utah can give him more money, and Gobert is an All-NBA level center. Also, just a reminder, Hayward was drafted with a pick the Knicks gave up in the Marbury trade.
In  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:00 pm : link
theory even if Smart didn't improve a ton the defense alone would be a monster upgrade at PG over what we have been running out there. I despised the Noah signing but not outrageous to believe a healthier Noah + Smart + no Melo or Rose = much improved defense before we even talk about the lotto pick etc.
I'd take the Smart, Y/Z, future #1 package for Melo  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:00 pm : link
I would want to know how much it would cost to sign Smart. Guy is a corner 3 away from being a big time player. One of the most impactful defensive guards I've seen. Him and Frenchie could form a defensively dominant backcourt. The Griz have had good defenses for years built on the backbone of two guards who deny penetration. Gasol got good at D but was a bit overrated because his Gs were doing so much work.
RE: In  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13437743 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
theory even if Smart didn't improve a ton the defense alone would be a monster upgrade at PG over what we have been running out there. I despised the Noah signing but not outrageous to believe a healthier Noah + Smart + no Melo or Rose = much improved defense before we even talk about the lotto pick etc.


If you just call him a 2 and stick him in the corner, he's a 34.3% corner 3 shooter. Not very good but passable. With KP capable of taking the longer 3s that guards usually take, it is doable. But you'd lose Smart in transition D to some degree.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:06 pm : link
According to ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton's projection, given Yabusele's CBA figures this season he is expected to average 13.7 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists per 36 minutes in the NBA.

"I'd say the key to his development will probably be improving as a defensive rebounder," Pelton said. "His translated defensive rebound percentage is 16.9 percent, which is below average for a power forward (18.4 percent). But his high-percentage finishing, ability to shoot the FIBA 3 and solid block rate are all encouraging for the Celtics."
That's not bad but not amazing  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:12 pm : link
Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).
Zizic is the C  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:14 pm : link
unless 6ers make a deal. He is gonna be in green and even wit getting someone from them he comes off the bench and not start which is ideal.

Yabo is going to replace soft Kelly O .....

Smart and AB makes up for Thomas defensive issues ... that is why both are going to stay
RE: That's not bad but not amazing  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13437762 Deej said:
Quote:
Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).


Sure but I think he'd be a decent addition to KP/Willy + our lotto pick. I'm not expecting superstar but he seems multi-skilled, has range etc. Seems like a pretty decent get (either one of them).
RE: Zizic is the C  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13437766 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
unless 6ers make a deal. He is gonna be in green and even wit getting someone from them he comes off the bench and not start which is ideal.

Yabo is going to replace soft Kelly O .....

Smart and AB makes up for Thomas defensive issues ... that is why both are going to stay


Bradley, Crowder, smart and horford haven't proven to make up for Thomas's issues...why now?
Are you watching the games  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:18 pm : link
they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.

Ford  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:19 pm : link
had Yabusele going #4 overall in his 2016 re-draft

"
The Celtics are very bullish on him. He's a strong, super-athletic big man who can stretch the floor and plays with both great energy and feel. He's a little undersized for his position, but the comparisons to Jae Crowder (or before the draft, Larry Johnson) seem apt.
I think I'd take his upside right now over that of Hernangomez or Brogdon."

RE: RE: That's not bad but not amazing  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13437770 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437762 Deej said:


Quote:


Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).



Sure but I think he'd be a decent addition to KP/Willy + our lotto pick. I'm not expecting superstar but he seems multi-skilled, has range etc. Seems like a pretty decent get (either one of them).


Oh, sure. I said I'd do him, Smart, and a #1. There was some talk of him being a guy who could play a Draymond like role. He seems too stocky for that. And in any event Draymond is kind of a unique player (and so much of what makes him great is between his ears).
RE: Are you watching the games  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13437778 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.


Yes I am. Thomas isn't doing any favors in rebounding or boxing out.

And let's not forget we are still discussing the Celtics vs an 8 seed. If we being practical, how the hell do you matchup when facing Kyrie Lebron and love??

There's 0 proof you can win a playoff series with thomas getting 35-40 minutes a night. They're playing the worst playoff team in the NBA and...no dice. Rondo being out may flip the script but it doesn't prove that the C's aren't anything but pretenders as currently constructed.
Mass Live with a take on Yabusele in the G-League  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:26 pm : link
Like his offense, worried about his defense/effort.
Link - ( New Window )
Admittedly  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:27 pm : link
youtube isn't great for scouting but looks pretty intriguing
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Are you watching the games  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13437786 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13437778 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.




Yes I am. Thomas isn't doing any favors in rebounding or boxing out.

And let's not forget we are still discussing the Celtics vs an 8 seed. If we being practical, how the hell do you matchup when facing Kyrie Lebron and love??

There's 0 proof you can win a playoff series with thomas getting 35-40 minutes a night. They're playing the worst playoff team in the NBA and...no dice. Rondo being out may flip the script but it doesn't prove that the C's aren't anything but pretenders as currently constructed.


Cs are doing just fine .... Keep IT where he is replace Amir Johnson with a defensive rebounding C and that there changes a lot ... our biggest weakness rebounding ... 2nd weakness is 2 punch to go with the #1 .... enter FA or trading the picks (the right deal no team gutting)...otherwise rebuild thru the draft as we are doing.
Smart  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 4:32 pm : link
in many ways is the perfect triangle PG.

Big, good defender, can guard multiple positions, can hit the corner 3 when open, can finish at the rim.

I agree that a Frenchie/Smart backcourt could be fun.

Smart would also love being in NY, not that that matters at all.
People forget  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:33 pm : link
we are just ahead f scheduling rebuilding and a KG RA (last banner) trade is not going to happen ... that was a rare gem as was trading Doc for picks and then trading P, KG and RA for the new pick cache we have
RE: Mass Live with a take on Yabusele in the G-League  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13437787 Deej said:
Quote:
Like his offense, worried about his defense/effort. Link - ( New Window )


His upside is probably a better KOQ which I wouldn't hate.
It's easy to say "keep IT"  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:38 pm : link
But that year of FA, Horford, Bradley, IT and smart will constitute ~$110M a year...with Crowder hitting FA the following year. I hardly think that doubling down on this roster is a wise move cap wise. Ainge doesn't seem the type that would do that and I wouldn't blame him .
The C's definitely have an embarrassment...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 4:41 pm : link
... of decent young talent. Chips, if you will.

And they are adding the possible #1 pick in the draft on top of that.

The only thing missing, of course, (and it is, admittedly, a big thing) is a top flight, #1, bonafide star. I love IT, but his height prevents him from being that guy.

Anywho, getting back on topic: I still don't see why Boston would want to do a Melo trade. Does adding Melo have them beating Cleveland? No, most probably not.

Furthermore: what's the C's biggest weakness? Rebounding. Does Melo help with that? No... in fact, if they play Melo at the 4, a bad rebounding team just got worse.

The C's will continue to bind their time, and have the luxury of playing for both now and later (thanks to the Nets trade)... they should look to make a move if it's a good one, but I don't think they are greatly desiring Melo, even at a bargain price.
The report  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 4:52 pm : link
today certainly runs counter to your thinking.
Not a prime example  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:52 pm : link
but the Warriors make do about not being a good rebounding team by being efficient on offense. Replacing amir with Melo wouldn't tank the rebounding that much worse than it is but would really open things up offensively.
Luckily for the Knicks and us Knicks fans,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 4:54 pm : link
the C's are interested. They probably won't have to shell out the prospects/picks that some fans want, but I think it's a realistic possibility that something gets done. How much the C's have to give up will depend on how many other teams are interested and how interested they are.
C's Biggest Weakness  
RAIN : 4/21/2017 4:57 pm : link
is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?
RE: It's easy to say  
Deej : 4/21/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13437806 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But that year of FA, Horford, Bradley, IT and smart will constitute ~$110M a year...with Crowder hitting FA the following year. I hardly think that doubling down on this roster is a wise move cap wise. Ainge doesn't seem the type that would do that and I wouldn't blame him .


What are your contract projections. Obviously, only Harford and Crowder are under contract for 2018. I think they'll likely need to keep IT because what they otherwise lack is a guy who can make his own offense. I have to think that they need to move one of Bradley, Smart, or Crowder. It's a luxury to have all three of those defenders. Bradley is the best player among them but will cost the most. Crowder might be a guy you let go a season too early so you dont get caught with 2-3 seasons too many (i.e. I could see him being a guy who is only very good during his 4-5 prime seasons). Smart you may let walk if he demands too much.

But even at 110 million, it's not like they'll need more capspace. Brown, the Nets 2017 #1 and 2018 #1, Yabs, Zizic -- that's 15-20 million of insane talent to fill out the rotation.

So in summary: Yes, lots of money would need to be spent to keep everyone. But I dont think IT is where you save it. Unless maybe you get Fultz this year, but even then IT has lots of value.
They don't have that....yet.  
Keith : 4/21/2017 5:00 pm : link
I think the C's realize that. Now they have to realize how they can find that. They have a ton of draft picks(do they want to wait for them to develop?). They have cap space. Do they have to trade for an old vet that still thinks he's the man and plays 0 defense? Hope so.
My  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 5:01 pm : link
guess is the Celtics #1 hope is signing Hayward. Costs them nothing but money. If that doesn't happen they will likely engage the Bulls/Pacers/Knicks and weigh the cost (Melo obviously being the "cheapest" by a significant margin).
RE: RE: could the bucks be interested in melo?  
djm : 4/21/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13437017 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437004 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i know its milwaukee but if kidd and melo are still close i wonder if kidd could convince him to come?

parker and their first for melo? take on a bad contract?



Aren't getting Parker and the 17th pick in the draft for Melo c'mon lol That's absurd.


Lol keep dreaming.
RE: They don't have that....yet.  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13437837 Keith said:
Quote:
I think the C's realize that. Now they have to realize how they can find that. They have a ton of draft picks(do they want to wait for them to develop?). They have cap space. Do they have to trade for an old vet that still thinks he's the man and plays 0 defense? Hope so.


Ainge is going to have to decide if he is going to build for future or build around it and horford...

my guess they build around it and horford and make trades for vers and trading for melo lrobably wont stop them from pursuing butler or george as well..

if they decide to go youth you might want to think about trading thomas while you can get a lot for him..

right now their team is going nowhere, 1 seed or not
Carmelo as a 4  
Deej : 4/21/2017 5:08 pm : link
probably outrebounds Amir on the defensive end. As a 3 69% of the time this year he was a 15.9% defensive rebounder. Amir spent 100% of his time at the 4/5 and was a 17% TRB guy. Shit, the difference in their rebound totals is probably attributable to bigs getting the missed FT rebounds (ok, I made that up).

Offensively, a revitalized Melo could do some oREB work. He's always been a strong offensive rebounder. He has been playing away from the basket a lot the past two seasons as the Knicks have 2 bigs out a lot of the time (and frankly, he's just not going there). But if he's a 4, he'll bully some rebounds.

Scoring aside, best part of Melo's game (career) has been rebounding.
He plays away from the basket  
Keith : 4/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
because he can't get to the basket anymore. He's a shell of himself athletically. It's worth the risk for Boston if they give up fringe assets, but it's not going to help. He makes them worse, not better. The one thing he adds is that he can get hot and carry an offense for a quarter or two. Other than that, he does nothing to help.
RE: Carmelo as a 4  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13437846 Deej said:
Quote:
probably outrebounds Amir on the defensive end. As a 3 69% of the time this year he was a 15.9% defensive rebounder. Amir spent 100% of his time at the 4/5 and was a 17% TRB guy. Shit, the difference in their rebound totals is probably attributable to bigs getting the missed FT rebounds (ok, I made that up).

Offensively, a revitalized Melo could do some oREB work. He's always been a strong offensive rebounder. He has been playing away from the basket a lot the past two seasons as the Knicks have 2 bigs out a lot of the time (and frankly, he's just not going there). But if he's a 4, he'll bully some rebounds.

Scoring aside, best part of Carmelo's game (career) has been rebounding.

The Carmelo Anthony you are talking about is a Carmelo Anthony that doesn't exist anymore...

... or, at the very least, a Carmelo that is dwindling fast.
RE: C's Biggest Weakness  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13437833 RAIN said:
Quote:
is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?

Nah... it's rebounding, IMO. I've watched them all season.

They are a good team offensively. Not perfect, over-reliant on the 3... but their perimeter defense helps them manufacture points.

Rebounding is what kills them.
RE: RE: C's Biggest Weakness  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13437902 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437833 RAIN said:


Quote:


is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?


Nah... it's rebounding, IMO. I've watched them all season.

They are a good team offensively. Not perfect, over-reliant on the 3... but their perimeter defense helps them manufacture points.

Rebounding is what kills them.


stop thinking what worked for regular season..

if you want to win in the post season the celtics need another go to scorer..

cdltics are a good regular season team but in thenpost season they are going nowhere currently constructed
I am thinking playoffs...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 6:56 pm : link
... the Celtics are getting killed by the Bulls on the boards.

Sure, the C's could use another player that can create his own shot too. I never said otherwise.

Carmelo Anthony from 5 or 10 years ago might have been perfect in that role. That Anthony is gone, sadly... and I would argue his negatives outweigh his positives at this point.
Boston will still  
Carl in CT : 4/21/2017 9:12 pm : link
Win this series. Count on it.
Hayward just proves  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:29 pm : link
it doesnt matter what pick the knicks get, you never know who can become a superstar, you have to trust your scouts and the cosches...

RE: Boston will still  
Giantology : 4/22/2017 7:49 am : link
In comment 13438093 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Win this series. Count on it.


maybe now that Rondo is out, sure.
Blake Griffin out for playoffs  
giantsfan44ab : 4/22/2017 10:34 am : link
.
RE: Blake Griffin out for playoffs  
Deej : 4/22/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13438302 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
.


I think the Clippers will move on from him. Blake S&T somewhere, Melo to LAC, assets to NY.
RE: Blake Griffin out for playoffs  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/22/2017 11:35 am : link
In comment 13438302 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
.


He's likely gone this season.
Any chance Blake doesnt not exercise his ETO?  
Deej : 4/22/2017 11:36 am : link
This doesnt seem like the injury to pass on UFA over. But now his reputation is firmly as a guy who gets hurt too much. Maybe a season of perfect health improves his value.

I just really wonder if someone can max him out right now. Seems terribly risky.
A three  
Jon in NYC : 4/22/2017 11:42 am : link
way trade with the Knicks getting spare parts really feels the most likely outcome here.
RE: A three  
nygiants16 : 4/22/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13438372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
way trade with the Knicks getting spare parts really feels the most likely outcome here.


maybe griffin to boston, and knicks can get their hands on some picks and young players
Would the clips trade with the Lakers?  
giantsfan44ab : 4/22/2017 12:12 pm : link
Magic Johnson can get his star.

Clips get:
Melo and Lee

Lakers get:
Griffin, Rivers and Wesley Johnson

Knicks get:

Russell, Randle, Deng, Brewer and the Rockets #1.
Maybe the Clips get the Rockets pick  
giantsfan44ab : 4/22/2017 12:18 pm : link
to make it work, but if the Lakers get their pick it makes a lot of sense if they can get PG.

Ball, Ingram, PG, Blake, Zubac, Clarkson. Not shabby. That seems like something Phil Jackson was trying to bring to NY all along but it manifested into Derrick Rose and Noah instead of Blake and PG.
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