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NFT: Knicks Chat: Go Bulls!

DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 9:40 am
Go Bulls! A Bulls series win could 1. Prompt the Celtics to look into Melo 2. Prompt the Bulls into thinking they are "close" and add Melo

-Lebron is ridiculous

- Francesa chimed in on KP (linked below)

- Bucks aren't beating the Cavs but talk about an interesting team headed in the right direction...
Link - ( New Window )
No way the C's go after Melo...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 9:52 am : link
... maybe 5 years ago... but the C's are moving forward... he's the opposite of the direction they are going.
could the bucks be interested in melo?  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 9:53 am : link
i know its milwaukee but if kidd and melo are still close i wonder if kidd could convince him to come?

parker and their first for melo? take on a bad contract?
RE: No way the C's go after Melo...  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13437002 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
... maybe 5 years ago... but the C's are moving forward... he's the opposite of the direction they are going.


how is he the opposite? you realize celtics are an older team right? especially if they resign thomas..

melo is exactly what they need right now and would have to give up a lot less then what they would have to give up for butler or George
It is much more likley  
ChicagoMarty : 4/21/2017 9:57 am : link
that the Celtics go after Jimmy Butler.

They have lusted for him for quite some time and now Butler is lighting them up
RE: It is much more likley  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13437009 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
that the Celtics go after Jimmy Butler.

They have lusted for him for quite some time and now Butler is lighting them up


Of course it is. It's also much more likely the Bulls opt to hold onto Butler vs. Melo and that the price for Butler would be much, much higher. Chicago can ask for the Celtics top 3 pick (among other things). Melo obviously won't bring that back. It takes two to tango.
i'd puke if the Bulls traded for Carmelo  
UConn4523 : 4/21/2017 10:00 am : link
.
I'm hoping the C's are dumb enough to think Melo  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:01 am : link
is exactly what they need, but how exactly is he what they need? He's a one-dimensional player who is older, doesn't make anyone around him better, 2 steps slower than he used to be when he was good and can't really score that well close to the basket anymore. He's a shooter now. The C's are loaded with premium draft picks and should be a team build off of that.
RE: could the bucks be interested in melo?  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13437004 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i know its milwaukee but if kidd and melo are still close i wonder if kidd could convince him to come?

parker and their first for melo? take on a bad contract?


Aren't getting Parker and the 17th pick in the draft for Melo c'mon lol That's absurd.
I love this consensus that Melo has no (or very little) value  
PhiPsi125 : 4/21/2017 10:01 am : link
and that we shouldn't expect much of a return for him. It's just laughable. If he was on any other team, he'd suddenly have a ton of value that teams would be killing to have. He's a great piece for a team that's close and needs an offensive threat. But he's on the Knicks, so he's a bum.

Melo definitely has his warts, but the worst decision he ever made from a pure basketball sense was coming to the Knicks and this clusterf*ck of an organization.
I think the best case scenario  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:02 am : link
is taht the Cavs don't win it all and want Melo. Love doesn't really fit all that well and he's not adding much to what they are doing. If they lose, GM Lebron could push for Melo.
RE: It is much more likley  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13437009 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
that the Celtics go after Jimmy Butler.

They have lusted for him for quite some time and now Butler is lighting them up


Ok say here are the 2 offers..

1st this year and next year both bkn, crowder and brown for butler

or

celtics first this year and maybe next year and crowder for melo?

you get to keep both bkn picks to maybe even try and get george or add 2 more young pieces.
Melo doesn't have much value,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:03 am : link
that's reality. Maybe if he opens up his list and teams start to bid against each other for his services.
RE: RE: could the bucks be interested in melo?  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13437017 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437004 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i know its milwaukee but if kidd and melo are still close i wonder if kidd could convince him to come?

parker and their first for melo? take on a bad contract?



Aren't getting Parker and the 17th pick in the draft for Melo c'mon lol That's absurd.


parker already has 2 acl injuries, no guarantee he can get back to what he was starting to become..
RE: Melo doesn't have much value,  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13437021 Keith said:
Quote:
that's reality. Maybe if he opens up his list and teams start to bid against each other for his services.


This. The NTC kills a large portion of his value. He knows they want him gone and he can dictate where he goes. Our luck has the most realistic options (Cavs/LAC) having absolutely nothing to offer (unless as you said, Kevin Love is on the move).
I think people need to be realistic with where Melo  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:05 am : link
would be willing to go. Do you think Melo believes that they can win a championship in Milwaukee if he goes there? I believe there are 2 scenarios in which Melo will agree to a trade.

1. A team is a legit contender(Cavs, Wiz maybe, GS, Houston?)
2. He gets to play with his buddies(Cavs, Bulls, Clippers)
RE: Melo doesn't have much value,  
PhiPsi125 : 4/21/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13437021 Keith said:
Quote:
that's reality. Maybe if he opens up his list and teams start to bid against each other for his services.


If it's because of his NTC, then yes I agree that it kills his value. But that's not what people are typically saying about his value being low.
Doesn't  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:06 am : link
matter if Parker had 5 ACL injuries. He's 22 years old coming off a 20 and 6 and 3 season, 49% from the field, 37% from 3, 19.15 PER. The Bucks would laugh their asses off if the Knicks asked for Parker and the 17th pick for Melo.
RE: RE: No way the C's go after Melo...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13437006 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437002 Gmaniac1 said:


Quote:


... maybe 5 years ago... but the C's are moving forward... he's the opposite of the direction they are going.



how is he the opposite? you realize celtics are an older team right? especially if they resign thomas..

melo is exactly what they need right now and would have to give up a lot less then what they would have to give up for butler or George

My comment had less to do with age and more to do with the fact that Anthony doesn't fit into a Brad Stevens team based on defense and teamwork.

Anthony is the diametrical opposite of defense and team play.

And he's old, yes, I'm sure that factors in too.
RE: Doesn't  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13437027 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
matter if Parker had 5 ACL injuries. He's 22 years old coming off a 20 and 6 and 3 season, 49% from the field, 37% from 3, 19.15 PER. The Bucks would laugh their asses off if the Knicks asked for Parker and the 17th pick for Melo.


ok how about just the 17th pick 😎
RE: RE: Melo doesn't have much value,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:08 am : link
In comment 13437026 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437021 Keith said:


Quote:


that's reality. Maybe if he opens up his list and teams start to bid against each other for his services.



If it's because of his NTC, then yes I agree that it kills his value. But that's not what people are typically saying about his value being low.


It's a combination of things. Obviously his NTC cuts his value significantly, but lets say he didn't have that. What do you believe his value would be? I don't think it would be much better. A mid to late first and maybe a young player? He's been the centerpiece of some disasterously bad teams. His warts have been on full display. His own team has mentioned that we can't win with him.
RE: RE: RE: No way the C's go after Melo...  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13437028 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437006 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13437002 Gmaniac1 said:


Quote:


... maybe 5 years ago... but the C's are moving forward... he's the opposite of the direction they are going.



how is he the opposite? you realize celtics are an older team right? especially if they resign thomas..

melo is exactly what they need right now and would have to give up a lot less then what they would have to give up for butler or George


My comment had less to do with age and more to do with the fact that Anthony doesn't fit into a Brad Stevens team based on defense and teamwork.

Anthony is the diametrical opposite of defense and team play.

And he's old, yes, I'm sure that factors in too.


age should not factor in when your top 2 players are over 30..

its funny because according to the post stevens was for the melo trade and ainge was the one who hesitated..

At  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:09 am : link
the right price Melo would make sense for the Celtics. An additional scorer who can occasionally take over games. That said if I were them I'd only be offering a low ball offer for him. On paper they are actually a great fit as the price wouldn't impact their overall plan.
Fine...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:14 am : link
... if the Knicks were willing to accept next-to-nothing... or assorted garbage... then the C's might be interested.

Happy?

I still say his lack of D and team-offense-killing tendency to iso is a total non-fit with the Celtics... and I openly question if Melo would be satisfied with the role of 7th or 8th guy off the bench.
I agree with Dan to an extent.  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:15 am : link
It would essentially be a 1 year tryout to see if it works. Unless other teams start bidding up the price, the C's have the pieces to make it work where they won't feel it.
RE: I agree with Dan to an extent.  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13437045 Keith said:
Quote:
It would essentially be a 1 year tryout to see if it works. Unless other teams start bidding up the price, the C's have the pieces to make it work where they won't feel it.


Well my point is they have enough assets that at the right price it's a worthy gamble. They can both build through the draft/what they are doing and also add Melo. They have enough chips.
What about Melo to the Clips?  
elisha2014 : 4/21/2017 10:17 am : link
If they lose to a Gobert-less Jazz team in the first round they have to shake up their roster.

What about DeAndre for Melo? Makes the Clips more "west coast" with their wing scoring and DeAndre next to KP would be an unreal defensive frontcourt.
RE: Fine...  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13437041 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
... if the Knicks were willing to accept next-to-nothing... or assorted garbage... then the C's might be interested.

Happy?

I still say his lack of D and team-offense-killing tendency to iso is a total non-fit with the Celtics... and I openly question if Melo would be satisfied with the role of 7th or 8th guy off the bench.


he wouldnt be a 7th or 8th guy iff the bench for boston thats ridiculous...

Ainge has never built through the draft guarantee he makes a trade for now in the off season, will it be melo? i dont know
RE: Melo doesn't have much value,  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13437021 Keith said:
Quote:
that's reality. Maybe if he opens up his list and teams start to bid against each other for his services.


I don't think he has a whole lot of value even without the NTC. His contract, diminished athleticism, and non-existent zeal for playing defense all knock his value down. I believe he could definitely be reinvigorated in a new place, but that doesn't mean I expect a valuable rotation piece or a high 1st round draft pick in return for him. I think the best we could do for him is a young player who hasn't quite developed or a pair of first round picks with heavy protections attached to them.
Berman  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 10:21 am : link
in his article today said the Celts were pro trading for Melo at the trade deadline, and one of the main reasons Ainge wasn't was due to giving up cap space this offseason.

But come July, Crowder, Smart, Celtics 2017 first for Melo could make a lot of sense.
RE: What about Melo to the Clips?  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:21 am : link
In comment 13437048 elisha2014 said:
Quote:
If they lose to a Gobert-less Jazz team in the first round they have to shake up their roster.

What about DeAndre for Melo? Makes the Clips more "west coast" with their wing scoring and DeAndre next to KP would be an unreal defensive frontcourt.


Doesn't do anything for the Knicks. They would be getting Jordan for one year and then be forced to give him a MONSTER max deal starting in his age 30 season while still paying Noah.
I don't think there is a good spot for Melo to start...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:23 am : link
... on the C's roster.

He wouldn't knock Jae Crowder out at the 3. If the C's tried to wedge him into the 4 spot... their main problem of rebounding would go from bad to worse.

Furthermore: the C's are already developing a young wing with good potential in Jalen Brown. They've also got a top pick in the upcoming draft to develop (assuming they keep the pick)

Do they want to take those minutes and give them to an aging Melo? As a fan... I don't.
RE: Berman  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13437053 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
But come July, Crowder, Smart, Celtics 2017 first for Melo could make a lot of sense.

You're smoking crack.

No way the C's give up even close to that haul for Melo. None.
I'd trade Melo for Jordan  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:24 am : link
in a 3 way where Jordan goes elsewhere, but why would the Clippers do that? How could Melo and Blake work and why would they rather Melo over Blake? Jordan fits with Blake and Paul.
Clips aren't trading their second best player  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 10:25 am : link
and make no mistake... Jordan has surpassed Blake as their second best player.
that offer is nothing for melo  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:26 am : link
what do you think you are going to have to offer to get butler or paul george
Smart has had his issues in Boston.  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:26 am : link
I can see Smart, fillers, their own 1st for Melo. I think Phils job will be to get multiple teams involved. I believe that a trade with Cleveland is the most likely with Love coming to the Knicks, if the Cavs do not win it all.
RE: RE: Berman  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 10:28 am : link
In comment 13437061 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437053 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


But come July, Crowder, Smart, Celtics 2017 first for Melo could make a lot of sense.


You're smoking crack.

No way the C's give up even close to that haul for Melo. None.


You call that a haul? The fuck is wrong with you?
celtics fans havnt realized yet  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:30 am : link
their team is built on old players that is no better than a 1st or 2nd round team..
Crowder  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 10:31 am : link
is a league average SF at best and Smart is a severely limited offensive player who just flipped the bird to a fan at their home stadium.

You think that's a haul for an NBA all star?

Come the eff on.
I would love Crowder on the Knicks.  
bceagle05 : 4/21/2017 10:32 am : link
He'd be a veteran culture-changer we desperately need. Throw in a first rounder and I'm good. The Celts have always been the most sensible trade partner.
Pretty sure the C's don't have their own  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 10:34 am : link
2017 first. The "BKN pick" is swap right
Hypothetical:  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:34 am : link
Cavs get knocked out. They agree to trade Love for Melo.

1. Would you rather keep Love or flip him for pieces?
2. What do you think Phil would rather do?
RE: I love this consensus that Melo has no (or very little) value  
Deej : 4/21/2017 10:36 am : link
In comment 13437018 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
and that we shouldn't expect much of a return for him. It's just laughable. If he was on any other team, he'd suddenly have a ton of value that teams would be killing to have. He's a great piece for a team that's close and needs an offensive threat. But he's on the Knicks, so he's a bum.

Melo definitely has his warts, but the worst decision he ever made from a pure basketball sense was coming to the Knicks and this clusterf*ck of an organization.


+1. People continue to not understand that asking guys to play roles over their current ability sets them up to fail. But get guys in the correct role and they shine. Melo needs to be the #3 or lower player on a very good team (#2 scoring option).
RE: Hypothetical:  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13437081 Keith said:
Quote:
Cavs get knocked out. They agree to trade Love for Melo.

1. Would you rather keep Love or flip him for pieces?
2. What do you think Phil would rather do?


I would rather flip Love, and I think Phil would as well.
RE: RE: I love this consensus that Melo has no (or very little) value  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13437084 Deej said:
Quote:



+1. People continue to not understand that asking guys to play roles over their current ability sets them up to fail. But get guys in the correct role and they shine. Melo needs to be the #3 or lower player on a very good team (#2 scoring option).


But a team is going to be paying him like a number one player though. How does that help his trade value?
Crowder was the sticking point in Butler trade talks...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:39 am : link
... the C's were very unwilling to give him up.

Y'all severely underrate him. He may not be an all-star, but he has the following positives:

- Good contract
- Team leader
- Tough defender
- ~40% 3 pt shooter

I wouldn't give him up straight up for Melo at this point in their respective careers. I venture to guess the majority of NBA execs feel the same way.
RE: Doesn't  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13437027 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
matter if Parker had 5 ACL injuries. He's 22 years old coming off a 20 and 6 and 3 season, 49% from the field, 37% from 3, 19.15 PER. The Bucks would laugh their asses off if the Knicks asked for Parker and the 17th pick for Melo.


It doesn't make sense for Melo but I think Parker is best used as a ticket to rid themselves of their bad contracts and maybe get a starting center out of it. Just don't see how Parker fits with Brogdon, middleton, GF and Maker. He's going to get a max deal, I wouldn't want to touch that if I'm Milwaukee, but what if I'm Brooklyn or Orlando? Flip Parker, Henson, teletovic for Vucevic or Brook Lopez and you're into something.
RE: Pretty sure the C's don't have their own  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13437080 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
2017 first. The "BKN pick" is swap right


you are right
RE: I'd trade Melo for Jordan  
Deej : 4/21/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13437062 Keith said:
Quote:
in a 3 way where Jordan goes elsewhere, but why would the Clippers do that? How could Melo and Blake work and why would they rather Melo over Blake? Jordan fits with Blake and Paul.


Actually, I think there has been a lot of analysis that Blake and Jordan dont fit well at all. Offensively, they're both guys who need to be near the basket.

Blake scares the shit out of me. Super athletic PFs tend to have very sharp falloffs. Once they cant jump out of the gym, they're cooked. They're not guys to bet on into their 30s. Putting aside whether Blake's injury history makes him any riskier than random players.
RE: Crowder was the sticking point in Butler trade talks...  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13437093 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
... the C's were very unwilling to give him up.

Y'all severely underrate him. He may not be an all-star, but he has the following positives:

- Good contract
- Team leader
- Tough defender
- ~40% 3 pt shooter

I wouldn't give him up straight up for Melo at this point in their respective careers. I venture to guess the majority of NBA execs feel the same way.


wait you think crowder is the rreason you didnt get butler or george? if that is the case ainge should be fired on the spot...

crowder is not the reason, ainge didnt want to give up the bkn picks, which i dont blame him
RE: Crowder was the sticking point in Butler trade talks...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13437093 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:

I wouldn't give him up straight up for Melo at this point in their respective careers. I venture to guess the majority of NBA execs feel the same way.


Ehhh... if Crowder was on the Clippers or the Cavs and he was all it took to do a deal, they would drive his ass to the airport so quick, his head might fall off.
RE: Crowder  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:43 am : link
In comment 13437075 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
is a league average SF at best and Smart is a severely limited offensive player who just flipped the bird to a fan at their home stadium.

You think that's a haul for an NBA all star?

Come the eff on.

The C's draft pick this year was also suggested in the haul... that pick projects to be in the top 3.

The C's have swapped right with NJ... they have no other pick in the first round FYI.
RE: RE: RE: No way the C's go after Melo...  
BigBlueShock : 4/21/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13437028 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437006 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13437002 Gmaniac1 said:


Quote:


... maybe 5 years ago... but the C's are moving forward... he's the opposite of the direction they are going.



how is he the opposite? you realize celtics are an older team right? especially if they resign thomas..

melo is exactly what they need right now and would have to give up a lot less then what they would have to give up for butler or George


My comment had less to do with age and more to do with the fact that Anthony doesn't fit into a Brad Stevens team based on defense and teamwork.

Anthony is the diametrical opposite of defense and team play.

And he's old, yes, I'm sure that factors in too.

Defense and teamwork? Except they were an utterly average defensive team and the offense was essentially IT running a one man show on offense. You make it sound like they are an elite defensive team that has balanced scoring. That's inaccurate on both accounts
RE: RE: Crowder was the sticking point in Butler trade talks...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13437102 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
wait you think crowder is the rreason you didnt get butler or george? if that is the case ainge should be fired on the spot...

crowder is not the reason, ainge didnt want to give up the bkn picks, which i dont blame him

The Bulls wanted the Brooklyn pick AND Crowder AND more...

... it was all of it put together. According to reports, the C's were willing to give the Brooklyn pick and more, but tried to keep Crowder out of it. Then talks never progressed.
RE: RE: RE: I love this consensus that Melo has no (or very little) value  
Deej : 4/21/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13437090 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437084 Deej said:


Quote:





+1. People continue to not understand that asking guys to play roles over their current ability sets them up to fail. But get guys in the correct role and they shine. Melo needs to be the #3 or lower player on a very good team (#2 scoring option).



But a team is going to be paying him like a number one player though. How does that help his trade value?


1. No, he'll be making making $30 million if traded, which is WAY below the max for the very best players, which will exceed 40 million (super max).

2. So what. Plenty of teams have multiple high paid players. It's a creature of the max cap rule. LeBron, Love, and Kyrie are all maxed out.
Chicago wanted  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 10:47 am : link
Crowder, Bradley and a BKN pick which makes no sense for Boston.
RE: RE: Doesn't  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13437094 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13437027 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


matter if Parker had 5 ACL injuries. He's 22 years old coming off a 20 and 6 and 3 season, 49% from the field, 37% from 3, 19.15 PER. The Bucks would laugh their asses off if the Knicks asked for Parker and the 17th pick for Melo.



It doesn't make sense for Melo but I think Parker is best used as a ticket to rid themselves of their bad contracts and maybe get a starting center out of it. Just don't see how Parker fits with Brogdon, middleton, GF and Maker. He's going to get a max deal, I wouldn't want to touch that if I'm Milwaukee, but what if I'm Brooklyn or Orlando? Flip Parker, Henson, teletovic for Vucevic or Brook Lopez and you're into something.


Sure. I didn't mean to imply Parker was an untouchable piece but for Melo? Makes absolutely zero sense for the Bucks (and that doesn't even include the pick).
Ok then Deej,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 10:51 am : link
lets assume for a second that there is no NTC.

What is Melo's value?
RE: RE: RE: RE: No way the C's go after Melo...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13437111 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Defense and teamwork? Except they were an utterly average defensive team and the offense was essentially IT running a one man show on offense. You make it sound like they are an elite defensive team that has balanced scoring. That's inaccurate on both accounts

The C's were plagued by injuries this year. Their best defender (Bradley) missed a bunch. Crowder and Horford also missed a lot of time.

The C's do have some very good individual defenders... Bradley, Smart and Crowder come immediately to mind. But IT is a liability and their huge weakness (rebounding) impacts their defensive numbers as well.

I was speaking more about the culture under Brad Stevens, though.

The C's did gain the #1 seed in the east, btw. That certainly appears like over-achieving right about now... but how poorly they're showing in the playoffs only makes the feat more remarkable.
There will no doubt be teams that want Melo  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 10:55 am : link
I don't think it's Boston. Boston is more than Melo away from Cleveland. Boston is more than Gordon Hayward and Jimmy Butler away from Cleveland.

It just depends on if he's willing to outright remove his NTC or make it known which teams he's now open to going he wasn't before. But Washington and Toronto are two spots I could easily see.

Wouldn't Utah be a good fit if he's waived it completely? Center a deal around favors and Alex Burks and I'd do that.

I don't think Miami would give up a lottery pick, but is Bosh's contract tradeable? Melo + Lee + KOQ for Bosh's contract, Tyler Johnson and josh richardson. Hard seeing Miami wanting to pay up for Waiters and Tyler Johnson and have money committed to Tyler Johnson.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I love this consensus that Melo has no (or very little) value  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 10:57 am : link
In comment 13437114 Deej said:
Quote:

1. No, he'll be making making $30 million if traded, which is WAY below the max for the very best players, which will exceed 40 million (super max).

2. So what. Plenty of teams have multiple high paid players. It's a creature of the max cap rule. LeBron, Love, and Kyrie are all maxed out.


But LeBron is the best player in the sport. Love, who I'm not a fan of at all, is 4 years younger than Melo. Kyrie is 8(!) years younger and it's possible he hasn't even hit his prime as a player. I don't see how Melo, in his current state, not being worth his contract is disputable. Now it's possible a team thinks he can up his game in a new role on their team, but why give up a lot when that's far from certain?
RE: There will no doubt be teams that want Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13437139 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
I don't think it's Boston. Boston is more than Melo away from Cleveland. Boston is more than Gordon Hayward and Jimmy Butler away from Cleveland.

It just depends on if he's willing to outright remove his NTC or make it known which teams he's now open to going he wasn't before. But Washington and Toronto are two spots I could easily see.

Wouldn't Utah be a good fit if he's waived it completely? Center a deal around favors and Alex Burks and I'd do that.

I don't think Miami would give up a lottery pick, but is Bosh's contract tradeable? Melo + Lee + KOQ for Bosh's contract, Tyler Johnson and josh richardson. Hard seeing Miami wanting to pay up for Waiters and Tyler Johnson and have money committed to Tyler Johnson.


I find it beyond reasonable plausibility that Melo is okaying a deal to Utah
RE: Ok then Deej,  
Deej : 4/21/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13437128 Keith said:
Quote:
lets assume for a second that there is no NTC.

What is Melo's value?


Good question. It's hard to tell. I think conditions in the league overall serve to depress his value. Particularly, the best team is loaded and flawless (GSW), and many teams have nothing to trade that makes sense. Not just CLE or LAC, but also teams like WAS. Oubre and picks in the 20s isnt fair value. Maybe Oladipo would be fair. A mid lottery pick (after the balls are drawn). Fact is Melo can make tough buckets and volume buckets. That is the hardest thing to do in the NBA. 100 players can hit open jumper when the 4th pass of a possession leaves the defense out of position. Titles are won by teams that can make buckets when offenses arent running right at all.
Would Pop want Melo?  
Reeses Pieces : 4/21/2017 11:01 am : link
They have worked together via Team USA. Is Pau, Danny Green, Dejounte Murray and the 29th pick feasible for both ball clubs?
Is Bosh's contract tradeable?  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 11:02 am : link
Not a contract expert but I have a hard time believing the players union would be alright if a team won't medically clear a player yet trade his rights all over the country.
I would LOVE to see Melo on SA.  
Keith : 4/21/2017 11:05 am : link
He'd be benched often.
How  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:06 am : link
about Melo to Charlotte in a deal centered around MKG? Melo IS Jordan brand and Walker/Melo/Batum wouldn't be a terrible core. They aren't giving up their 2017 lottery pick with MKG but how about MKG and their 2018 pick?
Rondo  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:10 am : link
broken thumb wow.
Rondo  
PaulBlakeTSU : 4/21/2017 11:10 am : link
out indefinitely with a fractured thumb.
Prokhorov  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:10 am : link
is selling 49% of the Nets
Portland has a bunch of picks  
Keith : 4/21/2017 11:12 am : link
this year and cap space to take on Melo.
RE: Rondo  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13437163 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
broken thumb wow.


Jerian Grant... come on down. You're the next contestant on Price Is Right.
RE: Portland has a bunch of picks  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13437169 Keith said:
Quote:
this year and cap space to take on Melo.


Shitty picks though. 1 from Cleveland, 1 from Memphis
That really flips the script  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 11:14 am : link
On chicago doesn't it?
Huge break for the C's...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 11:15 am : link
Huge

Rondo has been motivated and doing work
RE: RE: Portland has a bunch of picks  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 11:15 am : link
In comment 13437175 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437169 Keith said:


Quote:


this year and cap space to take on Melo.



Shitty picks though. 1 from Cleveland, 1 from Memphis


To Portland Crabbe might be a "bad contract" but I don't think he's an awful guy to have given his age. I'd take Crabbe + Vonleh.
RE: RE: Portland has a bunch of picks  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13437175 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:



Shitty picks though. 1 from Cleveland, 1 from Memphis


I'd be very happy with a (or 2) shitty first rounder in this draft.
Crabbe  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:18 am : link
didn't have a good season but was better second half. He's the kind of guy that if the Knicks gave him his existing deal would be viewed as a "good gamble".
RE: Prokhorov  
Deej : 4/21/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13437165 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is selling 49% of the Nets


Well, he's saying that 49% is available for purchase. Previously he said that an unspecified minority stake was available. But there is no buyer.

Weird time to sell. The Nets are at rock bottom as a team, without their #1s for 2 years. And it's not like a sale now would cash in on either the sports TV rights boom (which is probably over, and they're part of YES anyway) or the interest in the Barclays center, which is complicated because of the Islanders mess/uncertainty.
RE: RE: RE: Portland has a bunch of picks  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13437183 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437175 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:





Shitty picks though. 1 from Cleveland, 1 from Memphis



I'd be very happy with a (or 2) shitty first rounder in this draft.


Maybe as an extra piece of a deal but Cleveland's pick is like adding a second rounder. If that's all the Knicks get for Melo that's not very much, certainly wouldn't be "very happy" with that return.
RE: Crabbe  
Deej : 4/21/2017 11:24 am : link
In comment 13437188 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
didn't have a good season but was better second half. He's the kind of guy that if the Knicks gave him his existing deal would be viewed as a "good gamble".


What is with the Blazers having such horrid defenders at the guard slots, Crabbe included? It's not like the Knicks, who are bringing in retreads with age/physicaly problems (Rose, Calderon...)
RE: RE: Crabbe  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13437201 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13437188 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


didn't have a good season but was better second half. He's the kind of guy that if the Knicks gave him his existing deal would be viewed as a "good gamble".



What is with the Blazers having such horrid defenders at the guard slots, Crabbe included? It's not like the Knicks, who are bringing in retreads with age/physicaly problems (Rose, Calderon...)


Blazers have some weird numbers with their bigs too. Not sure how to explain their roster etc.
Crabbe at the very least is a younger  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 11:27 am : link
Courtney Lee. Vonleh gives you a defensive minded center to put next to KP and then bring Willy off the bench.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Portland has a bunch of picks  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 4/21/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13437195 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


Maybe as an extra piece of a deal but Cleveland's pick is like adding a second rounder. If that's all the Knicks get for Melo that's not very much, certainly wouldn't be "very happy" with that return.


As I've said a bunch of times, I don't expect much of a return for Melo so my standard for a good return is a LOT lower than others. I hope I'm proven wrong.
Crabbe is a bad defender  
Deej : 4/21/2017 11:54 am : link
and Lee is an above-average defender. I dont see the comp.
RE: Crabbe is a bad defender  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13437257 Deej said:
Quote:
and Lee is an above-average defender. I dont see the comp.


So when can I use the WS/48 metric and when can't I? Because they are identical players based off that and PER and a bunch of other advanced metrics? At age 24 Crabbe is a much more refined shooter than lee. Are we supposed to write him off as ever being a good defensive player? He certainly has size, isn't a bad athlete. At the end of the day they're both average/below average starting SGs in the NBA. I'd rather have the one that's 24? Or no?
Knicks fans probably made their minds up  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 11:59 am : link
But not sure exactly how Monroe has become a whipping boy. He had his minutes cut this year but wasn't an insignificant part of the Bucks at all the last two years. He's earning his contract in the playoffs.

Certainly having Willy makes it a good thing we didn't sign Monroe I guess, just not sure how he's considered a bad player. He's pretty underrated at this point.
RE: Portland has a bunch of picks  
Earl the goat : 4/21/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13437169 Keith said:
Quote:
this year and cap space to take on Melo.


Portland has zero cap space for the next 4 years
What are you talking about
They would need to trade 30 million dollars in salaries to acquire Melo
RE: RE: Crabbe is a bad defender  
Deej : 4/21/2017 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13437259 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13437257 Deej said:


Quote:


and Lee is an above-average defender. I dont see the comp.



So when can I use the WS/48 metric and when can't I? Because they are identical players based off that and PER and a bunch of other advanced metrics? At age 24 Crabbe is a much more refined shooter than lee. Are we supposed to write him off as ever being a good defensive player? He certainly has size, isn't a bad athlete. At the end of the day they're both average/below average starting SGs in the NBA. I'd rather have the one that's 24? Or no?


I think it's fair to look at WS48 and say two guys are similarly impactful. But WS48 doesnt address why they are impactful. Lee is a defender and efficient, low volume shooter. Crabbe is a better shooter/scorer, worse defender. I was taking issue with Crabbe being a younger Lee in style/type, not with their relative contributions.

There are lots of guys with similar WS48. Mike Conley and Giannis are two PGs .001 apart in WS48. Obviously, you wouldnt call Giannis a young Mike Conely. That's what Im getting at.
You don't have to convince me there are  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 12:14 pm : link
inherent issues with WS/48 metric. I was using lee as a comparison of potential impact, not style. Lee has better playmaking abilities and handles certainly. But for the Knicks, I don't think "style" matters so much as getting young players that can make as good/better (or even slightly worse) impacts that older players on the roster. I'd rather have the player that can be at the very least 85% of Courtney Lee is in 3 years than Courtney Lee (age 34) himself. That is all. Wouldn't be the greatest return for Melo but it's a step up from rivers (if Vonleh and/or a pick is included).
Wish we could fast forward these playoffs a bit.  
bceagle05 : 4/21/2017 1:41 pm : link
We know its Cavs/Warriors, just get to the lottery at least. The Rose and Chandler trades were made about a week before the draft, so maybe we'll get some trade action to kick things off.
.  
Anakim : 4/21/2017 1:42 pm : link
SLAM Magazine‏Verified account @SLAMonline
Report: Celtics Coaches 'In Favor' Of Carmelo Anthony Trade:
What about Crowder  
RAIN : 4/21/2017 2:43 pm : link
and 2018 nets first and filler?
Id put the chances of the Knicks getting either of the Nets picks  
Keith : 4/21/2017 2:44 pm : link
at about 1%.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 2:48 pm : link
would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.
RE: I  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13437602 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.

^ Much more reasonable.

As a C's fan... I'd be pretty surprised if they gave up Crowder... and absolutely shocked if they gave any of the Nets good picks.
The Knicks are going to ask for Crowder and a pick,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 2:54 pm : link
maybe the Nets 2018. The C's are going to say thanks but no thanks. They will probably offer the Knicks Smart and a late 1st. Depending on whether there are other teams involved that want Melo, will decide on which direction the trade goes(kninks favor vs bostons favor).
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 2:58 pm : link
suspect Smart flaws and all is someone Phil sees as having an instant impact thanks to his defense. Yabusele has SOME similarities to Draymond Green. Zizic is only 20 and likely not ready to log major minutes for Boston but the Knicks could allow him a slow burn. He gets raves for his hustle and toughness which again I think Phil will be interested in.
RE: I  
Anakim : 4/21/2017 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13437602 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.


Sounds like Phil would be adamant on getting back Crowder
It  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 2:59 pm : link
should be noted that Zizic played for Blatt who raved about him. Why is this noteworthy? Because Phil reportedly thinks very highly of Blatt so in theory he would pick his brain on him.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13437636 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13437602 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.



Sounds like Phil would be adamant on getting back Crowder


I don't think Boston would give him up. He's their heart and soul defensively and despite their rep they aren't an especially great defensive team. Crowder for Melo is a major downgrade defensively. I think the Celtics would balk at giving up Crowder. I suspect they want to "pair" them together.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:01 pm : link
Blatt said Zizic reminds him of Oklahoma City Thunder big man Steven Adams, adding that his work ethic would allow him to accomplish more than many imagined.

Without question, Ante brings to the table a level of energy and intangibles that will allow him initially as a role player to contribute, Blatt said, because hes going to rebound, hes going to run, hes going to go after loose balls, hes going to be able to finish and hes going to compete.

Blatt said the floor spacing in the NBA should help Zizic as he improves his skill set, but that the level of athleticism could initially be jarring, because as powerful as the Euroleague is, it is not the NBA.

Still, he is confident that Zizics competitive fire will make the adjustment easier.

You are not going to find a better kid than Ante Zizic, Blatt said. And I know how easy it is for people to say things like that, because thats what people do when they want to support their player.

But Im telling you, all b.s. aside, you will not find a better kid than Ante
RE: I  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 3:04 pm : link
In comment 13437602 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.


I would 100% do this.
Ainge is not going to trade for Melo  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:11 pm : link
especially with that horrible contract (he gave the gift to Hortford) and IT is due for a max contract.

Fultz or Josh Jackson and we get a FA this summer with the cap space and the future is not mortgaged.
RE: Ainge is not going to trade for Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13437654 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
especially with that horrible contract (he gave the gift to Hortford) and IT is due for a max contract.

Fultz or Josh Jackson and we get a FA this summer with the cap space and the future is not mortgaged.


Melo's contract is anything but horrible. He has an opt out after the season. He's basically a rental.
Zizic and Yabo  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:16 pm : link
are replacing James Young, D Jackson on the bench... Zeller stays G Green, Amir J and Kelly Olynk are gone ... as well as J Jerebko .... we get a FA that can be paired with IT and Hortford while replacing bad potential on the bench with lottery picks and a Vet (tier-1 this summer) ... tier-2 (next summer) and 2 1st rd picks
Again  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:17 pm : link
Melo allows the Celtics to both improve now and keep most of their chips. Best of both worlds assuming Phil is willing to give up Melo for "the best he can find" which is likely.
RE: RE: Ainge is not going to trade for Melo  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13437659 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437654 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


especially with that horrible contract (he gave the gift to Hortford) and IT is due for a max contract.

Fultz or Josh Jackson and we get a FA this summer with the cap space and the future is not mortgaged.



Melo's contract is anything but horrible. He has an opt out after the season. He's basically a rental.



So give up a lottery picks for a 1 yr rental while not being able to use 20mil for a long term tier-1 FA .... yup that is a good contract to pickup ... smh
Who  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:18 pm : link
said anything about a lottery pick being given up?
RE: Who  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13437665 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
said anything about a lottery pick being given up?


I am being realistic about what would be asked for Melo ... Knicks will want premium picks or gut the roster which would be counter productive .... the Brooklyn picks will be asked of Ainge .... let's be realistic here
RE: RE: Who  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13437669 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13437665 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


said anything about a lottery pick being given up?



I am being realistic about what would be asked for Melo ... Knicks will want premium picks or gut the roster which would be counter productive .... the Brooklyn picks will be asked of Ainge .... let's be realistic here


That could not be farther from the truth. Pretty sure he will do it straight up for Crowder right now.
Now  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:24 pm : link
if its our 1st rd pick next yr Terry Rozier (replace Rose) for Melo you have a deal ... D Jackson and Kelly O can be tossed in as well
PS  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:25 pm : link
who is this tier 1 FA they are signing after the season? Other than Hayward this player doesn't exist. For context Hoopshype's top 10 FA (not including guys like Durant with opt outs who arent leaving or Chris Paul in line for a supermax 300+ million deal from the Clippers)

1. Hayward
2. Lowry
3. Millsap
4. Holiday
5. Ibaka
6. George Hill
7. Dwayne Wade
8. Teague
9. Iguodala
10. Derrick Rose

If there is anything working in the Knicks favor it's the lack of interesting FA inventory this off-season.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:26 pm : link
fully believe Smart, one young chip and a "future" pick is something both sides would be interested in.
Change Smart  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:43 pm : link
to Rozier and a discussion can be had ....


have to remember we need a true center as well (which is a bigger issue than an additional scorer)

76ers will make a deal this summer we can get Hayward time is on our side ...
Not sure how rozier would work better  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 3:54 pm : link
Than smart. Smarts hitting RFA so there are reasons the C's would be more interested in parting with smart.

I also would prefer Smart too. I've soured on him but if in the very off chance he becomes a half decent 3 point shooter you have a very good player on your hands. On the flip side, rozier is a 6'1" combo guard, it's hard envisioning him as anything more than a 6th man. Smart at least can guard multiple questions (up to the 4 in some situations).
Hayward  
Deej : 4/21/2017 3:57 pm : link
Why do people think he's gonna move? Utah can give him more money, and Gobert is an All-NBA level center. Also, just a reminder, Hayward was drafted with a pick the Knicks gave up in the Marbury trade.
In  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:00 pm : link
theory even if Smart didn't improve a ton the defense alone would be a monster upgrade at PG over what we have been running out there. I despised the Noah signing but not outrageous to believe a healthier Noah + Smart + no Melo or Rose = much improved defense before we even talk about the lotto pick etc.
I'd take the Smart, Y/Z, future #1 package for Melo  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:00 pm : link
I would want to know how much it would cost to sign Smart. Guy is a corner 3 away from being a big time player. One of the most impactful defensive guards I've seen. Him and Frenchie could form a defensively dominant backcourt. The Griz have had good defenses for years built on the backbone of two guards who deny penetration. Gasol got good at D but was a bit overrated because his Gs were doing so much work.
RE: In  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13437743 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
theory even if Smart didn't improve a ton the defense alone would be a monster upgrade at PG over what we have been running out there. I despised the Noah signing but not outrageous to believe a healthier Noah + Smart + no Melo or Rose = much improved defense before we even talk about the lotto pick etc.


If you just call him a 2 and stick him in the corner, he's a 34.3% corner 3 shooter. Not very good but passable. With KP capable of taking the longer 3s that guards usually take, it is doable. But you'd lose Smart in transition D to some degree.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:06 pm : link
According to ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton's projection, given Yabusele's CBA figures this season he is expected to average 13.7 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists per 36 minutes in the NBA.

"I'd say the key to his development will probably be improving as a defensive rebounder," Pelton said. "His translated defensive rebound percentage is 16.9 percent, which is below average for a power forward (18.4 percent). But his high-percentage finishing, ability to shoot the FIBA 3 and solid block rate are all encouraging for the Celtics."
That's not bad but not amazing  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:12 pm : link
Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).
Zizic is the C  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:14 pm : link
unless 6ers make a deal. He is gonna be in green and even wit getting someone from them he comes off the bench and not start which is ideal.

Yabo is going to replace soft Kelly O .....

Smart and AB makes up for Thomas defensive issues ... that is why both are going to stay
RE: That's not bad but not amazing  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13437762 Deej said:
Quote:
Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).


Sure but I think he'd be a decent addition to KP/Willy + our lotto pick. I'm not expecting superstar but he seems multi-skilled, has range etc. Seems like a pretty decent get (either one of them).
RE: Zizic is the C  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13437766 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
unless 6ers make a deal. He is gonna be in green and even wit getting someone from them he comes off the bench and not start which is ideal.

Yabo is going to replace soft Kelly O .....

Smart and AB makes up for Thomas defensive issues ... that is why both are going to stay


Bradley, Crowder, smart and horford haven't proven to make up for Thomas's issues...why now?
Are you watching the games  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:18 pm : link
they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.

Ford  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:19 pm : link
had Yabusele going #4 overall in his 2016 re-draft

"
The Celtics are very bullish on him. He's a strong, super-athletic big man who can stretch the floor and plays with both great energy and feel. He's a little undersized for his position, but the comparisons to Jae Crowder (or before the draft, Larry Johnson) seem apt.
I think I'd take his upside right now over that of Hernangomez or Brogdon."

RE: RE: That's not bad but not amazing  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13437770 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437762 Deej said:


Quote:


Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).



Sure but I think he'd be a decent addition to KP/Willy + our lotto pick. I'm not expecting superstar but he seems multi-skilled, has range etc. Seems like a pretty decent get (either one of them).


Oh, sure. I said I'd do him, Smart, and a #1. There was some talk of him being a guy who could play a Draymond like role. He seems too stocky for that. And in any event Draymond is kind of a unique player (and so much of what makes him great is between his ears).
RE: Are you watching the games  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13437778 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.


Yes I am. Thomas isn't doing any favors in rebounding or boxing out.

And let's not forget we are still discussing the Celtics vs an 8 seed. If we being practical, how the hell do you matchup when facing Kyrie Lebron and love??

There's 0 proof you can win a playoff series with thomas getting 35-40 minutes a night. They're playing the worst playoff team in the NBA and...no dice. Rondo being out may flip the script but it doesn't prove that the C's aren't anything but pretenders as currently constructed.
Mass Live with a take on Yabusele in the G-League  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:26 pm : link
Like his offense, worried about his defense/effort.
Link - ( New Window )
Admittedly  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:27 pm : link
youtube isn't great for scouting but looks pretty intriguing
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Are you watching the games  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13437786 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13437778 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.




Yes I am. Thomas isn't doing any favors in rebounding or boxing out.

And let's not forget we are still discussing the Celtics vs an 8 seed. If we being practical, how the hell do you matchup when facing Kyrie Lebron and love??

There's 0 proof you can win a playoff series with thomas getting 35-40 minutes a night. They're playing the worst playoff team in the NBA and...no dice. Rondo being out may flip the script but it doesn't prove that the C's aren't anything but pretenders as currently constructed.


Cs are doing just fine .... Keep IT where he is replace Amir Johnson with a defensive rebounding C and that there changes a lot ... our biggest weakness rebounding ... 2nd weakness is 2 punch to go with the #1 .... enter FA or trading the picks (the right deal no team gutting)...otherwise rebuild thru the draft as we are doing.
Smart  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 4:32 pm : link
in many ways is the perfect triangle PG.

Big, good defender, can guard multiple positions, can hit the corner 3 when open, can finish at the rim.

I agree that a Frenchie/Smart backcourt could be fun.

Smart would also love being in NY, not that that matters at all.
People forget  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:33 pm : link
we are just ahead f scheduling rebuilding and a KG RA (last banner) trade is not going to happen ... that was a rare gem as was trading Doc for picks and then trading P, KG and RA for the new pick cache we have
RE: Mass Live with a take on Yabusele in the G-League  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13437787 Deej said:
Quote:
Like his offense, worried about his defense/effort. Link - ( New Window )


His upside is probably a better KOQ which I wouldn't hate.
It's easy to say "keep IT"  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:38 pm : link
But that year of FA, Horford, Bradley, IT and smart will constitute ~$110M a year...with Crowder hitting FA the following year. I hardly think that doubling down on this roster is a wise move cap wise. Ainge doesn't seem the type that would do that and I wouldn't blame him .
The C's definitely have an embarrassment...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 4:41 pm : link
... of decent young talent. Chips, if you will.

And they are adding the possible #1 pick in the draft on top of that.

The only thing missing, of course, (and it is, admittedly, a big thing) is a top flight, #1, bonafide star. I love IT, but his height prevents him from being that guy.

Anywho, getting back on topic: I still don't see why Boston would want to do a Melo trade. Does adding Melo have them beating Cleveland? No, most probably not.

Furthermore: what's the C's biggest weakness? Rebounding. Does Melo help with that? No... in fact, if they play Melo at the 4, a bad rebounding team just got worse.

The C's will continue to bind their time, and have the luxury of playing for both now and later (thanks to the Nets trade)... they should look to make a move if it's a good one, but I don't think they are greatly desiring Melo, even at a bargain price.
The report  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 4:52 pm : link
today certainly runs counter to your thinking.
Not a prime example  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:52 pm : link
but the Warriors make do about not being a good rebounding team by being efficient on offense. Replacing amir with Melo wouldn't tank the rebounding that much worse than it is but would really open things up offensively.
Luckily for the Knicks and us Knicks fans,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 4:54 pm : link
the C's are interested. They probably won't have to shell out the prospects/picks that some fans want, but I think it's a realistic possibility that something gets done. How much the C's have to give up will depend on how many other teams are interested and how interested they are.
C's Biggest Weakness  
RAIN : 4/21/2017 4:57 pm : link
is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?
RE: It's easy to say  
Deej : 4/21/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13437806 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But that year of FA, Horford, Bradley, IT and smart will constitute ~$110M a year...with Crowder hitting FA the following year. I hardly think that doubling down on this roster is a wise move cap wise. Ainge doesn't seem the type that would do that and I wouldn't blame him .


What are your contract projections. Obviously, only Harford and Crowder are under contract for 2018. I think they'll likely need to keep IT because what they otherwise lack is a guy who can make his own offense. I have to think that they need to move one of Bradley, Smart, or Crowder. It's a luxury to have all three of those defenders. Bradley is the best player among them but will cost the most. Crowder might be a guy you let go a season too early so you dont get caught with 2-3 seasons too many (i.e. I could see him being a guy who is only very good during his 4-5 prime seasons). Smart you may let walk if he demands too much.

But even at 110 million, it's not like they'll need more capspace. Brown, the Nets 2017 #1 and 2018 #1, Yabs, Zizic -- that's 15-20 million of insane talent to fill out the rotation.

So in summary: Yes, lots of money would need to be spent to keep everyone. But I dont think IT is where you save it. Unless maybe you get Fultz this year, but even then IT has lots of value.
They don't have that....yet.  
Keith : 4/21/2017 5:00 pm : link
I think the C's realize that. Now they have to realize how they can find that. They have a ton of draft picks(do they want to wait for them to develop?). They have cap space. Do they have to trade for an old vet that still thinks he's the man and plays 0 defense? Hope so.
My  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 5:01 pm : link
guess is the Celtics #1 hope is signing Hayward. Costs them nothing but money. If that doesn't happen they will likely engage the Bulls/Pacers/Knicks and weigh the cost (Melo obviously being the "cheapest" by a significant margin).
RE: RE: could the bucks be interested in melo?  
djm : 4/21/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13437017 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437004 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i know its milwaukee but if kidd and melo are still close i wonder if kidd could convince him to come?

parker and their first for melo? take on a bad contract?



Aren't getting Parker and the 17th pick in the draft for Melo c'mon lol That's absurd.


Lol keep dreaming.
RE: They don't have that....yet.  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13437837 Keith said:
Quote:
I think the C's realize that. Now they have to realize how they can find that. They have a ton of draft picks(do they want to wait for them to develop?). They have cap space. Do they have to trade for an old vet that still thinks he's the man and plays 0 defense? Hope so.


Ainge is going to have to decide if he is going to build for future or build around it and horford...

my guess they build around it and horford and make trades for vers and trading for melo lrobably wont stop them from pursuing butler or george as well..

if they decide to go youth you might want to think about trading thomas while you can get a lot for him..

right now their team is going nowhere, 1 seed or not
Carmelo as a 4  
Deej : 4/21/2017 5:08 pm : link
probably outrebounds Amir on the defensive end. As a 3 69% of the time this year he was a 15.9% defensive rebounder. Amir spent 100% of his time at the 4/5 and was a 17% TRB guy. Shit, the difference in their rebound totals is probably attributable to bigs getting the missed FT rebounds (ok, I made that up).

Offensively, a revitalized Melo could do some oREB work. He's always been a strong offensive rebounder. He has been playing away from the basket a lot the past two seasons as the Knicks have 2 bigs out a lot of the time (and frankly, he's just not going there). But if he's a 4, he'll bully some rebounds.

Scoring aside, best part of Melo's game (career) has been rebounding.
He plays away from the basket  
Keith : 4/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
because he can't get to the basket anymore. He's a shell of himself athletically. It's worth the risk for Boston if they give up fringe assets, but it's not going to help. He makes them worse, not better. The one thing he adds is that he can get hot and carry an offense for a quarter or two. Other than that, he does nothing to help.
RE: Carmelo as a 4  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13437846 Deej said:
Quote:
probably outrebounds Amir on the defensive end. As a 3 69% of the time this year he was a 15.9% defensive rebounder. Amir spent 100% of his time at the 4/5 and was a 17% TRB guy. Shit, the difference in their rebound totals is probably attributable to bigs getting the missed FT rebounds (ok, I made that up).

Offensively, a revitalized Melo could do some oREB work. He's always been a strong offensive rebounder. He has been playing away from the basket a lot the past two seasons as the Knicks have 2 bigs out a lot of the time (and frankly, he's just not going there). But if he's a 4, he'll bully some rebounds.

Scoring aside, best part of Carmelo's game (career) has been rebounding.

The Carmelo Anthony you are talking about is a Carmelo Anthony that doesn't exist anymore...

... or, at the very least, a Carmelo that is dwindling fast.
RE: C's Biggest Weakness  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13437833 RAIN said:
Quote:
is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?

Nah... it's rebounding, IMO. I've watched them all season.

They are a good team offensively. Not perfect, over-reliant on the 3... but their perimeter defense helps them manufacture points.

Rebounding is what kills them.
RE: RE: C's Biggest Weakness  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 6:25 pm : link
In comment 13437902 Gmaniac1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13437833 RAIN said:


Quote:


is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?


Nah... it's rebounding, IMO. I've watched them all season.

They are a good team offensively. Not perfect, over-reliant on the 3... but their perimeter defense helps them manufacture points.

Rebounding is what kills them.


stop thinking what worked for regular season..

if you want to win in the post season the celtics need another go to scorer..

cdltics are a good regular season team but in thenpost season they are going nowhere currently constructed
I am thinking playoffs...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 6:56 pm : link
... the Celtics are getting killed by the Bulls on the boards.

Sure, the C's could use another player that can create his own shot too. I never said otherwise.

Carmelo Anthony from 5 or 10 years ago might have been perfect in that role. That Anthony is gone, sadly... and I would argue his negatives outweigh his positives at this point.
Boston will still  
Carl in CT : 4/21/2017 9:12 pm : link
Win this series. Count on it.
Hayward just proves  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 10:29 pm : link
it doesnt matter what pick the knicks get, you never know who can become a superstar, you have to trust your scouts and the cosches...

RE: Boston will still  
Giantology : 4/22/2017 7:49 am : link
In comment 13438093 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Win this series. Count on it.


maybe now that Rondo is out, sure.
Blake Griffin out for playoffs  
giantsfan44ab : 4/22/2017 10:34 am : link
.
RE: Blake Griffin out for playoffs  
Deej : 4/22/2017 11:33 am : link
In comment 13438302 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
.


I think the Clippers will move on from him. Blake S&T somewhere, Melo to LAC, assets to NY.
RE: Blake Griffin out for playoffs  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/22/2017 11:35 am : link
In comment 13438302 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
.


He's likely gone this season.
Any chance Blake doesnt not exercise his ETO?  
Deej : 4/22/2017 11:36 am : link
This doesnt seem like the injury to pass on UFA over. But now his reputation is firmly as a guy who gets hurt too much. Maybe a season of perfect health improves his value.

I just really wonder if someone can max him out right now. Seems terribly risky.
A three  
Jon in NYC : 4/22/2017 11:42 am : link
way trade with the Knicks getting spare parts really feels the most likely outcome here.
RE: A three  
nygiants16 : 4/22/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13438372 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
way trade with the Knicks getting spare parts really feels the most likely outcome here.


maybe griffin to boston, and knicks can get their hands on some picks and young players
Would the clips trade with the Lakers?  
giantsfan44ab : 4/22/2017 12:12 pm : link
Magic Johnson can get his star.

Clips get:
Melo and Lee

Lakers get:
Griffin, Rivers and Wesley Johnson

Knicks get:

Russell, Randle, Deng, Brewer and the Rockets #1.
Maybe the Clips get the Rockets pick  
giantsfan44ab : 4/22/2017 12:18 pm : link
to make it work, but if the Lakers get their pick it makes a lot of sense if they can get PG.

Ball, Ingram, PG, Blake, Zubac, Clarkson. Not shabby. That seems like something Phil Jackson was trying to bring to NY all along but it manifested into Derrick Rose and Noah instead of Blake and PG.
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