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NFT: Knicks Chat: Go Bulls!

DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 9:40 am
Go Bulls! A Bulls series win could 1. Prompt the Celtics to look into Melo 2. Prompt the Bulls into thinking they are "close" and add Melo

-Lebron is ridiculous

- Francesa chimed in on KP (linked below)

- Bucks aren't beating the Cavs but talk about an interesting team headed in the right direction...
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RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13437636 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13437602 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.



Sounds like Phil would be adamant on getting back Crowder


I don't think Boston would give him up. He's their heart and soul defensively and despite their rep they aren't an especially great defensive team. Crowder for Melo is a major downgrade defensively. I think the Celtics would balk at giving up Crowder. I suspect they want to "pair" them together.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:01 pm : link
Blatt said Zizic reminds him of Oklahoma City Thunder big man Steven Adams, adding that his work ethic would allow him to accomplish more than many imagined.

“Without question, Ante brings to the table a level of energy and intangibles that will allow him initially as a role player to contribute,” Blatt said, “because he’s going to rebound, he’s going to run, he’s going to go after loose balls, he’s going to be able to finish and he’s going to compete.”

Blatt said the floor spacing in the NBA should help Zizic as he improves his skill set, but that the level of athleticism could initially be jarring, because as powerful as the Euroleague is, it is not the NBA.

Still, he is confident that Zizic’s competitive fire will make the adjustment easier.

“You are not going to find a better kid than Ante Zizic,” Blatt said. “And I know how easy it is for people to say things like that, because that’s what people do when they want to support their player.

“But I’m telling you, all b.s. aside, you will not find a better kid than Ante
RE: I  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 3:04 pm : link
In comment 13437602 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
would think the Knicks will be asking for guys like one of Yabusele and Zizic + someone like Smart and a future pick.


I would 100% do this.
Ainge is not going to trade for Melo  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:11 pm : link
especially with that horrible contract (he gave the gift to Hortford) and IT is due for a max contract.

Fultz or Josh Jackson and we get a FA this summer with the cap space and the future is not mortgaged.
RE: Ainge is not going to trade for Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13437654 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
especially with that horrible contract (he gave the gift to Hortford) and IT is due for a max contract.

Fultz or Josh Jackson and we get a FA this summer with the cap space and the future is not mortgaged.


Melo's contract is anything but horrible. He has an opt out after the season. He's basically a rental.
Zizic and Yabo  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:16 pm : link
are replacing James Young, D Jackson on the bench... Zeller stays G Green, Amir J and Kelly Olynk are gone ... as well as J Jerebko .... we get a FA that can be paired with IT and Hortford while replacing bad potential on the bench with lottery picks and a Vet (tier-1 this summer) ... tier-2 (next summer) and 2 1st rd picks
Again  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:17 pm : link
Melo allows the Celtics to both improve now and keep most of their chips. Best of both worlds assuming Phil is willing to give up Melo for "the best he can find" which is likely.
RE: RE: Ainge is not going to trade for Melo  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13437659 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437654 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


especially with that horrible contract (he gave the gift to Hortford) and IT is due for a max contract.

Fultz or Josh Jackson and we get a FA this summer with the cap space and the future is not mortgaged.



Melo's contract is anything but horrible. He has an opt out after the season. He's basically a rental.



So give up a lottery picks for a 1 yr rental while not being able to use 20mil for a long term tier-1 FA .... yup that is a good contract to pickup ... smh
Who  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:18 pm : link
said anything about a lottery pick being given up?
RE: Who  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13437665 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
said anything about a lottery pick being given up?


I am being realistic about what would be asked for Melo ... Knicks will want premium picks or gut the roster which would be counter productive .... the Brooklyn picks will be asked of Ainge .... let's be realistic here
RE: RE: Who  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13437669 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13437665 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


said anything about a lottery pick being given up?



I am being realistic about what would be asked for Melo ... Knicks will want premium picks or gut the roster which would be counter productive .... the Brooklyn picks will be asked of Ainge .... let's be realistic here


That could not be farther from the truth. Pretty sure he will do it straight up for Crowder right now.
Now  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:24 pm : link
if its our 1st rd pick next yr Terry Rozier (replace Rose) for Melo you have a deal ... D Jackson and Kelly O can be tossed in as well
PS  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:25 pm : link
who is this tier 1 FA they are signing after the season? Other than Hayward this player doesn't exist. For context Hoopshype's top 10 FA (not including guys like Durant with opt outs who arent leaving or Chris Paul in line for a supermax 300+ million deal from the Clippers)

1. Hayward
2. Lowry
3. Millsap
4. Holiday
5. Ibaka
6. George Hill
7. Dwayne Wade
8. Teague
9. Iguodala
10. Derrick Rose

If there is anything working in the Knicks favor it's the lack of interesting FA inventory this off-season.
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 3:26 pm : link
fully believe Smart, one young chip and a "future" pick is something both sides would be interested in.
Change Smart  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 3:43 pm : link
to Rozier and a discussion can be had ....


have to remember we need a true center as well (which is a bigger issue than an additional scorer)

76ers will make a deal this summer we can get Hayward time is on our side ...
Not sure how rozier would work better  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 3:54 pm : link
Than smart. Smarts hitting RFA so there are reasons the C's would be more interested in parting with smart.

I also would prefer Smart too. I've soured on him but if in the very off chance he becomes a half decent 3 point shooter you have a very good player on your hands. On the flip side, rozier is a 6'1" combo guard, it's hard envisioning him as anything more than a 6th man. Smart at least can guard multiple questions (up to the 4 in some situations).
Hayward  
Deej : 4/21/2017 3:57 pm : link
Why do people think he's gonna move? Utah can give him more money, and Gobert is an All-NBA level center. Also, just a reminder, Hayward was drafted with a pick the Knicks gave up in the Marbury trade.
In  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:00 pm : link
theory even if Smart didn't improve a ton the defense alone would be a monster upgrade at PG over what we have been running out there. I despised the Noah signing but not outrageous to believe a healthier Noah + Smart + no Melo or Rose = much improved defense before we even talk about the lotto pick etc.
I'd take the Smart, Y/Z, future #1 package for Melo  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:00 pm : link
I would want to know how much it would cost to sign Smart. Guy is a corner 3 away from being a big time player. One of the most impactful defensive guards I've seen. Him and Frenchie could form a defensively dominant backcourt. The Griz have had good defenses for years built on the backbone of two guards who deny penetration. Gasol got good at D but was a bit overrated because his Gs were doing so much work.
RE: In  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13437743 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
theory even if Smart didn't improve a ton the defense alone would be a monster upgrade at PG over what we have been running out there. I despised the Noah signing but not outrageous to believe a healthier Noah + Smart + no Melo or Rose = much improved defense before we even talk about the lotto pick etc.


If you just call him a 2 and stick him in the corner, he's a 34.3% corner 3 shooter. Not very good but passable. With KP capable of taking the longer 3s that guards usually take, it is doable. But you'd lose Smart in transition D to some degree.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:06 pm : link
According to ESPN Insider Kevin Pelton's projection, given Yabusele's CBA figures this season he is expected to average 13.7 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2.1 assists per 36 minutes in the NBA.

"I'd say the key to his development will probably be improving as a defensive rebounder," Pelton said. "His translated defensive rebound percentage is 16.9 percent, which is below average for a power forward (18.4 percent). But his high-percentage finishing, ability to shoot the FIBA 3 and solid block rate are all encouraging for the Celtics."
That's not bad but not amazing  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:12 pm : link
Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).
Zizic is the C  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:14 pm : link
unless 6ers make a deal. He is gonna be in green and even wit getting someone from them he comes off the bench and not start which is ideal.

Yabo is going to replace soft Kelly O .....

Smart and AB makes up for Thomas defensive issues ... that is why both are going to stay
RE: That's not bad but not amazing  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13437762 Deej said:
Quote:
Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).


Sure but I think he'd be a decent addition to KP/Willy + our lotto pick. I'm not expecting superstar but he seems multi-skilled, has range etc. Seems like a pretty decent get (either one of them).
RE: Zizic is the C  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13437766 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
unless 6ers make a deal. He is gonna be in green and even wit getting someone from them he comes off the bench and not start which is ideal.

Yabo is going to replace soft Kelly O .....

Smart and AB makes up for Thomas defensive issues ... that is why both are going to stay


Bradley, Crowder, smart and horford haven't proven to make up for Thomas's issues...why now?
Are you watching the games  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:18 pm : link
they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.

Ford  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:19 pm : link
had Yabusele going #4 overall in his 2016 re-draft

"
The Celtics are very bullish on him. He's a strong, super-athletic big man who can stretch the floor and plays with both great energy and feel. He's a little undersized for his position, but the comparisons to Jae Crowder (or before the draft, Larry Johnson) seem apt.
I think I'd take his upside right now over that of Hernangomez or Brogdon."

RE: RE: That's not bad but not amazing  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13437770 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437762 Deej said:


Quote:


Willy, a year old, had "actual" per 36 stats of 16.0 points, 13.6 rebounds, and 2.6 assists. With 54% 2 point FG% (GY was 57% in a lesser league).



Sure but I think he'd be a decent addition to KP/Willy + our lotto pick. I'm not expecting superstar but he seems multi-skilled, has range etc. Seems like a pretty decent get (either one of them).


Oh, sure. I said I'd do him, Smart, and a #1. There was some talk of him being a guy who could play a Draymond like role. He seems too stocky for that. And in any event Draymond is kind of a unique player (and so much of what makes him great is between his ears).
RE: Are you watching the games  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13437778 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.


Yes I am. Thomas isn't doing any favors in rebounding or boxing out.

And let's not forget we are still discussing the Celtics vs an 8 seed. If we being practical, how the hell do you matchup when facing Kyrie Lebron and love??

There's 0 proof you can win a playoff series with thomas getting 35-40 minutes a night. They're playing the worst playoff team in the NBA and...no dice. Rondo being out may flip the script but it doesn't prove that the C's aren't anything but pretenders as currently constructed.
Mass Live with a take on Yabusele in the G-League  
Deej : 4/21/2017 4:26 pm : link
Like his offense, worried about his defense/effort.
Link - ( New Window )
Admittedly  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:27 pm : link
youtube isn't great for scouting but looks pretty intriguing
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Are you watching the games  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13437786 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13437778 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


they more than make up for his defensive liabilities ....

If we would just rebound and box out ... that would reflect in easier scoring as well.




Yes I am. Thomas isn't doing any favors in rebounding or boxing out.

And let's not forget we are still discussing the Celtics vs an 8 seed. If we being practical, how the hell do you matchup when facing Kyrie Lebron and love??

There's 0 proof you can win a playoff series with thomas getting 35-40 minutes a night. They're playing the worst playoff team in the NBA and...no dice. Rondo being out may flip the script but it doesn't prove that the C's aren't anything but pretenders as currently constructed.


Cs are doing just fine .... Keep IT where he is replace Amir Johnson with a defensive rebounding C and that there changes a lot ... our biggest weakness rebounding ... 2nd weakness is 2 punch to go with the #1 .... enter FA or trading the picks (the right deal no team gutting)...otherwise rebuild thru the draft as we are doing.
Smart  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 4:32 pm : link
in many ways is the perfect triangle PG.

Big, good defender, can guard multiple positions, can hit the corner 3 when open, can finish at the rim.

I agree that a Frenchie/Smart backcourt could be fun.

Smart would also love being in NY, not that that matters at all.
People forget  
MotownGIANTS : 4/21/2017 4:33 pm : link
we are just ahead f scheduling rebuilding and a KG RA (last banner) trade is not going to happen ... that was a rare gem as was trading Doc for picks and then trading P, KG and RA for the new pick cache we have
RE: Mass Live with a take on Yabusele in the G-League  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13437787 Deej said:
Quote:
Like his offense, worried about his defense/effort. Link - ( New Window )


His upside is probably a better KOQ which I wouldn't hate.
It's easy to say "keep IT"  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:38 pm : link
But that year of FA, Horford, Bradley, IT and smart will constitute ~$110M a year...with Crowder hitting FA the following year. I hardly think that doubling down on this roster is a wise move cap wise. Ainge doesn't seem the type that would do that and I wouldn't blame him .
The C's definitely have an embarrassment...  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 4:41 pm : link
... of decent young talent. Chips, if you will.

And they are adding the possible #1 pick in the draft on top of that.

The only thing missing, of course, (and it is, admittedly, a big thing) is a top flight, #1, bonafide star. I love IT, but his height prevents him from being that guy.

Anywho, getting back on topic: I still don't see why Boston would want to do a Melo trade. Does adding Melo have them beating Cleveland? No, most probably not.

Furthermore: what's the C's biggest weakness? Rebounding. Does Melo help with that? No... in fact, if they play Melo at the 4, a bad rebounding team just got worse.

The C's will continue to bind their time, and have the luxury of playing for both now and later (thanks to the Nets trade)... they should look to make a move if it's a good one, but I don't think they are greatly desiring Melo, even at a bargain price.
The report  
Jon in NYC : 4/21/2017 4:52 pm : link
today certainly runs counter to your thinking.
Not a prime example  
giantsfan44ab : 4/21/2017 4:52 pm : link
but the Warriors make do about not being a good rebounding team by being efficient on offense. Replacing amir with Melo wouldn't tank the rebounding that much worse than it is but would really open things up offensively.
Luckily for the Knicks and us Knicks fans,  
Keith : 4/21/2017 4:54 pm : link
the C's are interested. They probably won't have to shell out the prospects/picks that some fans want, but I think it's a realistic possibility that something gets done. How much the C's have to give up will depend on how many other teams are interested and how interested they are.
C's Biggest Weakness  
RAIN : 4/21/2017 4:57 pm : link
is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?
RE: It's easy to say  
Deej : 4/21/2017 5:00 pm : link
In comment 13437806 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But that year of FA, Horford, Bradley, IT and smart will constitute ~$110M a year...with Crowder hitting FA the following year. I hardly think that doubling down on this roster is a wise move cap wise. Ainge doesn't seem the type that would do that and I wouldn't blame him .


What are your contract projections. Obviously, only Harford and Crowder are under contract for 2018. I think they'll likely need to keep IT because what they otherwise lack is a guy who can make his own offense. I have to think that they need to move one of Bradley, Smart, or Crowder. It's a luxury to have all three of those defenders. Bradley is the best player among them but will cost the most. Crowder might be a guy you let go a season too early so you dont get caught with 2-3 seasons too many (i.e. I could see him being a guy who is only very good during his 4-5 prime seasons). Smart you may let walk if he demands too much.

But even at 110 million, it's not like they'll need more capspace. Brown, the Nets 2017 #1 and 2018 #1, Yabs, Zizic -- that's 15-20 million of insane talent to fill out the rotation.

So in summary: Yes, lots of money would need to be spent to keep everyone. But I dont think IT is where you save it. Unless maybe you get Fultz this year, but even then IT has lots of value.
They don't have that....yet.  
Keith : 4/21/2017 5:00 pm : link
I think the C's realize that. Now they have to realize how they can find that. They have a ton of draft picks(do they want to wait for them to develop?). They have cap space. Do they have to trade for an old vet that still thinks he's the man and plays 0 defense? Hope so.
My  
DanMetroMan : 4/21/2017 5:01 pm : link
guess is the Celtics #1 hope is signing Hayward. Costs them nothing but money. If that doesn't happen they will likely engage the Bulls/Pacers/Knicks and weigh the cost (Melo obviously being the "cheapest" by a significant margin).
RE: RE: could the bucks be interested in melo?  
djm : 4/21/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13437017 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13437004 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


i know its milwaukee but if kidd and melo are still close i wonder if kidd could convince him to come?

parker and their first for melo? take on a bad contract?



Aren't getting Parker and the 17th pick in the draft for Melo c'mon lol That's absurd.


Lol keep dreaming.
RE: They don't have that....yet.  
nygiants16 : 4/21/2017 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13437837 Keith said:
Quote:
I think the C's realize that. Now they have to realize how they can find that. They have a ton of draft picks(do they want to wait for them to develop?). They have cap space. Do they have to trade for an old vet that still thinks he's the man and plays 0 defense? Hope so.


Ainge is going to have to decide if he is going to build for future or build around it and horford...

my guess they build around it and horford and make trades for vers and trading for melo lrobably wont stop them from pursuing butler or george as well..

if they decide to go youth you might want to think about trading thomas while you can get a lot for him..

right now their team is going nowhere, 1 seed or not
Carmelo as a 4  
Deej : 4/21/2017 5:08 pm : link
probably outrebounds Amir on the defensive end. As a 3 69% of the time this year he was a 15.9% defensive rebounder. Amir spent 100% of his time at the 4/5 and was a 17% TRB guy. Shit, the difference in their rebound totals is probably attributable to bigs getting the missed FT rebounds (ok, I made that up).

Offensively, a revitalized Melo could do some oREB work. He's always been a strong offensive rebounder. He has been playing away from the basket a lot the past two seasons as the Knicks have 2 bigs out a lot of the time (and frankly, he's just not going there). But if he's a 4, he'll bully some rebounds.

Scoring aside, best part of Melo's game (career) has been rebounding.
He plays away from the basket  
Keith : 4/21/2017 5:10 pm : link
because he can't get to the basket anymore. He's a shell of himself athletically. It's worth the risk for Boston if they give up fringe assets, but it's not going to help. He makes them worse, not better. The one thing he adds is that he can get hot and carry an offense for a quarter or two. Other than that, he does nothing to help.
RE: Carmelo as a 4  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13437846 Deej said:
Quote:
probably outrebounds Amir on the defensive end. As a 3 69% of the time this year he was a 15.9% defensive rebounder. Amir spent 100% of his time at the 4/5 and was a 17% TRB guy. Shit, the difference in their rebound totals is probably attributable to bigs getting the missed FT rebounds (ok, I made that up).

Offensively, a revitalized Melo could do some oREB work. He's always been a strong offensive rebounder. He has been playing away from the basket a lot the past two seasons as the Knicks have 2 bigs out a lot of the time (and frankly, he's just not going there). But if he's a 4, he'll bully some rebounds.

Scoring aside, best part of Carmelo's game (career) has been rebounding.

The Carmelo Anthony you are talking about is a Carmelo Anthony that doesn't exist anymore...

... or, at the very least, a Carmelo that is dwindling fast.
RE: C's Biggest Weakness  
Gmaniac1 : 4/21/2017 5:54 pm : link
In comment 13437833 RAIN said:
Quote:
is a second scorer. What am I missing. Whom do they have after IT that can get their own shot?

Nah... it's rebounding, IMO. I've watched them all season.

They are a good team offensively. Not perfect, over-reliant on the 3... but their perimeter defense helps them manufacture points.

Rebounding is what kills them.
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