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If the Giants draft a DT, which certainly does seem likely,

Klaatu : 4/21/2017 12:02 pm
Would you prefer that they draft one who's primarily a run-stuffer, or would you prefer that they draft one who's primarily a one-gap penetrator?
if you draft high you have to have elements of both  
idiotsavant : 4/21/2017 12:04 pm : link
even the quick 3 techs cannot be a total liability vs runs, there are legit big DTs who have some rush chops.

in addition, there is no reason not to draft two DTs
The operative word in my OP is 'primarily.'  
Klaatu : 4/21/2017 12:09 pm : link
Anyway, drafting two DTs would be a waste of resources. We usually carry only four, occasionally five, and we can always sign a UFA DT after the draft to go with the three we have already on the roster plus a draftee.
how about run-stuffing, gap shooting, pass rushing, drop in  
Victor in CT : 4/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
covergae specialist?? :-)
Primarily  
Amtoft : 4/21/2017 12:10 pm : link
a powerful run stuffer that pushes the pocket. Let Vernon and JPP be the main pass rushers.
RE: how about run-stuffing, gap shooting, pass rushing, drop in  
Amtoft : 4/21/2017 12:11 pm : link
In comment 13437286 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
covergae specialist?? :-)


Riding on a unicorn?
I think that we need to control the LOS, so I'd go for a run-stuffer.  
yatqb : 4/21/2017 12:13 pm : link
.
I'd be fine with a guy similar in skillset  
Big Blue '56 : 4/21/2017 12:14 pm : link
to Hankins, but another Siragusa to complement Adams would be totally fine with me
I'm thinking  
mrvax : 4/21/2017 12:17 pm : link
a day 1 or day 2 DT should be a solid 3 tech. I believe you could get a run stuffer later in the draft, UDFA or a veteran FA without much trouble.

Good question though, I've been thinking the same.
RE: RE: how about run-stuffing, gap shooting, pass rushing, drop in  
Beer Man : 4/21/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13437289 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 13437286 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


covergae specialist?? :-)



Riding on a unicorn?
with a keg of beer strapped to his back
The way the game has changed  
ChicagoMarty : 4/21/2017 12:20 pm : link
all your DL need to be able to run sideline to sideline to address mobile qb's, smoke screens at the perimeter etc.

So give me fast DL to go with fast LBs and fast DBs

Note the theme here
I could see them using two picks on DT's  
Jay on the Island : 4/21/2017 12:23 pm : link
I think they could take a guy like Nazair Jones in rounds 3-4 and Josh Tupou in rounds 5 or 6. Tupou would be a good backup to Damon Harrison and could play immediately in goal line situations next to Harrison.
run stuffer  
BlackburnBalledOut : 4/21/2017 12:26 pm : link
ive always been a "stop the run first" kind of guy. it allows the defense to dictate the tone. plus if yoou can shut down a run game you can start to pin your ears back and get after the qb, forcing errors and bad throws which lets the DBs make plays. foundation of a d is the ability to stop the run. They already do it well, but with the DT2 spot wide open i would prefer a run stuffer.

or draft both.
A DT that can rush the passer, collapse the pocket.  
est1986 : 4/21/2017 12:29 pm : link
Gap penetrator.

RD 1 LB
RD 2 TE/DT
RD 3 TE/DT
RD 4 CB
RD 5 RB
RD 6 OT
RD 7 OG
A little bit of both  
Torrag : 4/21/2017 12:32 pm : link
Brantley and Tomlinson in the 2nd/3rd round area foot the bill. Stout at the PoA yet possessing penetrating disruptive qualities as well. Jaleel Johnson in Round 4. Nazair Jones in the 5th.
this conversation reminds me of a  
idiotsavant : 4/21/2017 12:36 pm : link
game of '20 questions' I played with my daughter when she was 6.

I just could not get the answer..

."an elephant riding a bicycle"


uh......ok.
each team and opportunity is different  
idiotsavant : 4/21/2017 12:40 pm : link
look at spagnulos creativity.

look at JPP/?/Snacks/Vernon


to me, a (canty, Cofield, hankins, (adams?, McDowell?) type, big enough and just nifty enough...maybe more so ...that player -will get a pass rush going- considering the local factors on the top of the table.

what you don't want to do is put a run liability out there...why do so?

I don't follow the details, is brantly good vs runs?
RE: RE: RE: how about run-stuffing, gap shooting, pass rushing, drop in  
Victor in CT : 4/21/2017 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13437300 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13437289 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 13437286 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


covergae specialist?? :-)



Riding on a unicorn?

with a keg of beer strapped to his back


Now THAT is worth trading up for.
RE: A DT that can rush the passer, collapse the pocket.  
Klaatu : 4/21/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13437318 est1986 said:
Quote:
Gap penetrator.


Yeah, I know people will point to the Cowboys and the need to stuff their run game, but I'm looking at a team like Philly, which has gone to great lengths to upgrade their passing game.
if I remember correctly  
idiotsavant : 4/21/2017 12:57 pm : link
both Cofield and Canty played some 3/4 End, either in college (Cofield) or in the pro's (Canty?).

Hankins stood out in college because in addition to being a load, he at times got horizontal, changed direction, made stand out plays typically seen with smaller players.

So, to me, that's the ideal here, (or that + more)

you have 3 outstanding DLers on the roster already, what you want is a Wrecking Crew type that has enough athleticism, aggressiveness and game savvy to take advantage of the chaos that the other 3 can create and then also take his own turn creating it.

If, however, this person is weak vs run blocks, than that kind of prevents the other 3 from creating that chaos in the first instance, since teams will simply adjust accordingly.
A player who  
Mike B from JC : 4/21/2017 1:07 pm : link
Can stuff the run and provide a passrush. Harrison is the run stuffer.
keep an eye on  
JonC : 4/21/2017 1:21 pm : link
Wormley.
I think the Giants will love Wormley's 'length'....  
Torrag : 4/21/2017 1:23 pm : link
...but I think his best position is at 3/4 DE. That said there is a fair comparison to be made to Chris Canty who the Giants also liked as a DT.
I still do not understand at all the need for a TE  
GuzzaBlue : 4/21/2017 1:38 pm : link
in the draft. In any round except maybe 5-7. Where is this guy going to play? In the slot? If so, where's shep going to line-up? Mac runs 1TE sets. I want to see what we have in Adams and thats as a TE2. 18m to Ellison.
Someone please explain why we would go for a TE in rd 1 unless it was Howard or even rd 2. I just don't see it. Too much talent at positions of need will be there at 23 and in the 2nd.
RE: keep an eye on  
GuzzaBlue : 4/21/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13437406 JonC said:
Quote:
Wormley.


I think him and Peppers are the dark horses at 23. I'd even go as far as saying I think one of those two are the pick if not one of the OL depending on how they value this year's.
If you look at Reese's drafting history...  
AdamBrag : 4/21/2017 1:43 pm : link
the Giants tend to bring in big DTs with long arms and big hands (Reese really seems to like big hands, not judging) who are strong.

Guys who fit this description in this year's draft:

Carlos Watkins, Clemson
Eddie Vanderdoes, UCLA
Elijah Qualls, Washington
DeAngelo Brown, Louisville
Jarron Jones, Notre Dame
Charles Walker, Oklahoma (although some character concerns here)
Vincent Taylor, Oklahoma St. (not that big though only 304 pounds)

Out of these guys, Watkins, Qualls, Walker, and Taylor can get after the QB. I also really like Brown as a Day 3 guy even though he doesn't provide .

Out of all of these guys, Watkins really feels like a Giants pick.
RE: RE: keep an eye on  
totowa_gman : 4/21/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13437443 GuzzaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13437406 JonC said:


Quote:


Wormley.



I think him and Peppers are the dark horses at 23. I'd even go as far as saying I think one of those two are the pick if not one of the OL depending on how they value this year's.


I agree on Wormley, I just don't see the love for Peppers.
RE: I think the Giants will love Wormley's 'length'....  
JonC : 4/21/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13437411 Torrag said:
Quote:
...but I think his best position is at 3/4 DE. That said there is a fair comparison to be made to Chris Canty who the Giants also liked as a DT.


Agreed on both points, hope he's not the pick at #23 tho.
Peppers really only makes sense if  
JonC : 4/21/2017 1:49 pm : link
they feel strongly he can convert to FS ... display some instincts as well as the ball skills, and most importantly to wrap up when he tackles.
'hope he's not the pick at #23 tho'...  
Torrag : 4/21/2017 1:50 pm : link
...at the risk of turning this into a lovefest I agree with that as well. He's a 2nd Rounder for me.
Depends  
WillVAB : 4/21/2017 1:50 pm : link
A player w both attributes would be nice but I think it depends on what happens with the rest of the defense.

If they happen to find a playmaker LB then my preference would be a DT penetrator. If the LBs stay trashy I'd rather have a run stuffer to protect the LBs.

RE: RE: RE: keep an eye on  
GuzzaBlue : 4/21/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13437455 totowa_gman said:
Quote:
In comment 13437443 GuzzaBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 13437406 JonC said:


Quote:


Wormley.



I think him and Peppers are the dark horses at 23. I'd even go as far as saying I think one of those two are the pick if not one of the OL depending on how they value this year's.



I agree on Wormley, I just don't see the love for Peppers.


I don't love him as a prospect, but considering his athleticism, school he played at and versatility, this could be one of those Reese surprise picks. I wouldn't hate it either. He's young and can do a lot. Maybe a hybrid safety role or LB if he could add 10-15 lbs. Wouldn't say its probable, more likely Wormley, but I could see it.
Ideally, a 3-technique...  
Milton : 4/21/2017 2:16 pm : link
But beggars can't be choosers if it's a run-stuffer that's the BPA at the time.
The brilliant move would be to convert Peppers  
gtt350 : 4/21/2017 2:48 pm : link
back to RB, very Tikiesque. he could even play D in case of emergency
Jonc  
jayg5 : 4/21/2017 2:56 pm : link
Big fan of Wormley.
Even at 23. He can play inside in 4-3 and outside
Dave Te  
GuzzaBlue : 4/21/2017 3:02 pm : link
made an interesting point in one of his posts about Peppers saying teams should use him like the Steelers did with Polumalu. Interesting point.

I really like Wormley though. I feel like he may be high on the Giants board and considered at 23.
Give me the penetrator  
The_Boss : 4/21/2017 3:16 pm : link
We need more passrush. We weren't getting it enough from up the gut.
Boss  
jayg5 : 4/21/2017 3:57 pm : link
Agreed
We didn't get any pressure what so ever up the middle
A strong 3t with jpp and vernon would make this defense even better than last year.
I would grab  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/22/2017 11:28 am : link
Chris Wormley or Caleb Brantley. 2nd round most likely. Neither may be there at #55, but if one is I imagine he will get serious consideration.
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