Gil Brandt .... Giants may draft a QB.

of Tom Brady's throws?

His arm is good enough, isn't it? I'm just curious if he has elite numbers there or not. My impression is that he didn't have what was considered to be an elite arm when he was coming out of college, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

Deeper dives on Webb have been undertaken by the Chiefs, Cardinals, Pittsburgh Steelers, New York Jets, New York Giants and 49ers. Webb has also said on a few occasions that “double-digit” NFL teams have told him they have put a first-round grade on him. That’s a buzzy statement but it remains to be seen if it materializes. What isn’t in question is whether Webb is drawing serious attention. He is, despite being billed as a player who will need a year or two of mechanical work (on his throwing and footwork) to be effective in the NFL. Seen as a likely middle-round pick in January, Webb is looking like a second-round lock. And his arm strength may get a team at the end of the first round to bite or induce a trade up by an early second-round team.

Every few drafts, there is a volcanic “media heat” quarterback. Almost always, it’s a guy who wows everyone with exquisite arm talent. This year, that’s Mahomes, who has drawn some media comparisons to Hall of Famer Brett Favre’s unforgettable cannon. That’s some serious praise and probably overhyped.

One evaluator said it was more along the lines of Jay Cutler, noting that the challenge was determining if Mahomes was more Favre or Cutler when it came to intangibles and leadership – not arm strength. That undertaking, along with the possibility that Mahomes may be on the draft board longer than Trubisky or Watson, has led to personal visits or workouts with more than half the NFL since the scouting combine. Among those who have done the most work on Mahomes: The Browns, Chiefs, Texans, Saints, Chargers, Cardinals, Bears, 49ers, Giants, Jets, Steelers and Bills.

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, among top QB's who have worked on their throwing mechanics to success

Maybe the Giants have already analyzed the mechanics of Watson and know they can fix what he's doing wrong with some time. Any QB coming to the Giants is going to get some time to work on this anyway.

and look at recent film on Brady, there's a noticeable difference in velocity. IIRC he really worked on his legs to improve the strength of his base.

that describes his arm as being sub-par when he was drafted.

One of the knocks on Brady coming out was he couldn’t “drive” the ball.

problem is that they are "system" QBs, except for Peterman and Kayaa.

Mahomes and Webb come from "air raid," "bear raid" offenses, that emphasize quick throws. That means one or two reads at most, many of which are close to the LOS. 60-65% of Webb's throws were within 10 yards of the LOS. They also have little to no experience in a huddle, or making three, five, or seven step drops.

Webb's highlights show a QB who makes some nice sideline ("rail") throws, but very few to the second and third levels. He also has some accuracy issues, and isn't a threat to scramble.

Mahomes is much more mobile, to the point where he tries to be a "hero" on every play. His awesome arm will also get him into a lot of trouble in the NFL, and may be the reason why he never developed proper footwork or mechanics. He didn't need to in college. But he will in the NFL.

Watson has a lot of the same problems. Lots of quick throws, and gets stuck on his first read. Low ball velocity. Accuracy issues. 30 INTs the last two seasons. How many of those interceptions were his fault is subject to debate. Brady's velocity may have been low when he was drafted, but he was a sixth, not a first, round pick.

Peterman and Kayaa come from a pro set offense. But Peterman is pretty close to his ceiling, and Kayaa doesn't have enough arm strength to survive the swirling winds of the Meadowlands late in the season.

Evans is just too raw. He absolutely should have gone back to school.

I still say they shouldn't draft any QB, but Seth Russell in the sixth round is fine. Assuming he's healthy, he has at least as much "upside" as Webb.

What about Kizer? He's the wildcard. His 2015 tape is quite good, and he had a lot of drops in 2016, although he could have had three or four more INTs. He reminds me of a thinner, more mobile, version of Daunte Culpepper. He's made some gorgeous throws. He's made some awful throws. I think the Steelers will take Kizer.

Here's what I think will happen:

Trubisky: Browns.
Mahomes: Cardinals.
Texans: Watson.
Steelers: Kizer.

Giants: 10-15% chance they take Mahomes, Webb, or Kizer, in that order at #23. No trade up for Mahomes.

The Giants are looking more than they have in the past, but they're still "window" shopping. It doesn't mean they're buying. Reese likes to be as certain as possible in the first round, which excludes any of these QBs. This team desperately needs DL help. Hankins is gone, and there is only the still essentially unproven Okwara behind JPP and Vernon, who played 90% of the snaps last season. That's where the pick will be, or perhaps an edge rusher.

In comment 13437865 AcidTest said:

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This team desperately needs DL help. Hankins is gone, and there is only the still essentially unproven Okwara behind JPP and Vernon, who played 90% of the snaps last season.

I don't see how you can say that a DL with JPP, Vernon, and Snacks as starters "desperately" needs DL help. If they desperately need DL help, what does it say about the level of need on OL?

In comment 13437893 Milton said:

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In comment 13437865 AcidTest said: Quote: This team desperately needs DL help. Hankins is gone, and there is only the still essentially unproven Okwara behind JPP and Vernon, who played 90% of the snaps last season. I don't see how you can say that a DL with JPP, Vernon, and Snacks as starters "desperately" needs DL help. If they desperately need DL help, what does it say about the level of need on OL?

I would hate to see them reach for a DL out of "desperation" if an OL with a higher grade was available at the time.

if Reese & McAdoo have conviction about a guy at 23 who can be the next guy, you better take him.

I wonder if Packer fans were saying 'we better not take a QB in the first round in 2005'?

I would be a little surprised if they use the number one pick. But I guess if they are convinced a franchise QB is sitting there at 23 they might not want to pass on him. But a raw 3-4 your project is still a reach IMO. I hope they don't go that route.

I think Kizer tumbles like a rock. I wouldn't be surprised if he lasts into Day 3.

In comment 13437362 Rjanyg said:

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In comment 13437335 mrvax said: Quote: In comment 13437331 HoustonGiant said: Quote: Day 3 Wouldn't you rather wait a year, see what happens with Geno, then draft a QB next year in a QB rich draft? I would wait. Yes, wait until next year. 100% agree.

Yup, Added benefit is you will have him longer on his rookie contract as a starter vs drafting him this draft and Eli retires in 3 years

fully on the Mahomes bandwagon. He has rare tools. Not his fault he played in a gimmick offense. He makes plays with his arm and legs. Give him a few years to learn and grow.

In comment 13437329 Kevin in Annapolis said:

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The Giants would be a good place for him because he could sit and learn for a year or two. Not saying we should, but if the FO thinks that he can be special then I could see it.

Mahomes is the only guy I am somewhat intrigued about the Giaants taking. But he reminds me so much of JT Losman. Granted, Id be interested in seeing how much Eli could rub off on him. Although acouple things. I havent heard much about Eli going out of his way to mentor people whether it be QBs or his WRs and I get the impression that Mahomes' personality and Eli's are so different that they would clash.

Just bringing them to the table because there was a Giants caller on Sirius the last week asking if Pat and Jim if they thought the Giants were looking QB and if Watson was a poor fit for the Giants.

They both said they thought the Giants were already set at QB with a great quarterback in Eli and they didn't see Giants looking for a quarterback early.

That being said the discussion turned to Watson, they both saw Watson as having no issues fitting the Giants offense. Saying he could make the necessary throws. Pat Kirwan specifically referenced the interceptions, saying that with the amount that Clemson threw the ball with him that it equated to 1 interception every 37 throws which was not a red flag by any means.

I think I would be more excited about Mahomes, just because of the upside he would present but I think some of these velocitiy numbers need to be taken in the context of a full evaluation of a prospect and not by arm chair analysts in a vacuum.

I would first put weight into what scouts thought about Watson's arm based on extensive game film evaluation. If arm strength was a red flag based on what they saw on film and the velocity numbers from the combine corroborated that concern then I would be worried. If arm strength wasn't a clear red flag based on evaluating game play then I wouldn't discount those velocity numbers but you might be able to research to come up with an idea where the disconnect may stem from.

I would liken it to the 40 times, if a player demonstrated explosive big play ability repeatedly on film and then didn't perform up to expectations in the 40 would you really toss out hours of film evidence based on results from a single day of testing? I think these concerns need to be taken within a larger context of scouting a player and not in a vacuum where fans see mph numbers and high int totals and just play a game of connect the dots

but teams like to reach out of desperation

You have to look at it like this ..... if you had the chance to draft Matthew Stafford at the 23rd pick this year with all of your current needs would you do it? I wouldn't hesitate... that's a yes and I believe that's the type of player Mahomes will be.

High velocity will not predict future success , however, velocity below 55 MPH for a QB is like playing OT with 32" arms.

Watson threw between 44 MPH and 49 MPH that is scary bad.
The Giants may believe that they can improve on his velocity by improving his mechanics. That is a big risk. If he was a third round pick he might be worth the gamble.

If Reese were to go to Watson and the Giants were not able to fix him. It could set the Giants back years.

I see him as a sound fit in a West Coast Offense, which is generally willing to sacrifice size and arm strength for mobility and accuracy. Reports from the Combine were Watson showed surprisingly good accuracy on his short throws and he has elite, off-the-charts mobility. He creates unconventional completions that don't require you to drive the ball by extending plays.

You always go back to the tape to check to arm because he's a gamer. Ups his level of play when the lights are on and ups it again in the clutch. With the game on the line and a throw he has to make he isn't throwing it 44 mph.

In comment 13437415 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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In comment 13437383 Milton said: Quote: In comment 13437369 AcidTest said: Quote: lack of ball velocity for Watson is particularly problematic since he'll be throwing in the swirling winds of the Meadowlands late in the season. Watson looks like a better, more mobile version of Danny Kanell. Great kid, but pass. Mahomes is the classic "high ceiling," "low floor" player. Terrible mechanics and footwork. Great arm, but Kyle Boller once threw the ball through the goalposts from the 50 yard line on his knees. He was drafted in the first round. Couldn't play. With someone like Mahomes you need to trust the interview process. How coachable is? How mentally tough is he? What's your read on his maturity and leadership qualities? Personally, I wasn't impressed by him in his youtube interview with Gruden. And this quote was a major turn-off.... Quote: I feel like a lot of coaches like me, but especially coach O'Brien. I think my personality and how real I am, those are things beyond what I can do on the field that he likes. It seemed like the way I was answering questions, I think he knew that I knew what was going on. You can tell when coaches have a confidence in you. He may turn out to be the next Brett Favre, but as someone earlier suggested, he may turn out to be the next Kyle Boller. And the Giants don't need to be the team to roll the dice on Schrodinger's Cat. I'm no way advocating drafting a QB at all this year, but reading scouts notes about Mahomes is that his head is in the right place. He's like Eli in that he's a 1st in/last out kind of work ethic. If true, makes sense that the Giants would be interested. A kid with that arm talent that works that hard would be hard to pass up.

I never ever trust QB's from Texas Tech, and I am pretty sure that a NFL GM will keep that in mind as well.
They don't do things related to what a QB does in the NFL
at that school. That includes even taking a snap from center. They look to the sidelines for the play, run a
spread offense, and just throw the ball. You have 4 receivers, and here we go. Graham Harrell comes to mind
(yeah I know he was smaller), but set all kinds of records in college, wound up in the CFL, then a few years in the NFL
as a backup. They don't do a lot of reading defenses at TT.
I wouldn't take a Mahomes in the first round,
but hey Paxton Lynch was taken in the first round too...
He was also ill prepared for the NFL game coming out of Memphis, similar to TT, about how the QB 'runs' an offense.

wait until next year on a QB. Your present QB might just
have a burr up his saddle with the recent memorabilia BS
that has been floating around. On occasion, I wouldn't mind
if Elisha showed that same fire in hie belly on the field too.
I know it's not his nature, just saying I wouldn't mind seeing it once in a while. If the QB class s suppose to better in 2018, then wait a year. It's not like somebody is going to
play right away anyhow.

This athletic ability is off the charts. Can they learn to be NFL QBs? Do
U want to pass up a Landon Collins for a guy who may not be able to ever transition. Then again maybe you are passing up a David Wilson.

To me there will be a very good
Starter level player at CB S LB or even OL. I think someone will grab Mahomes People are in love w his arm. Way before 23. Watson scares me that he has so much to learn to transion into an NFL QB when one of
Those other positions may be the missing part tona bigger playoff run

I have read conflicting reports on Watson at the combine and at his pro day.
The general opinion was that he was accurate and demonstrated excellent feet. It appeared that he mastered the 3',5',7' drops.

However, there are reports from scouts such as what I read at
Walter Football..

Quote:

"As for Deshaun Watson, he had an inconsistent showing. His deep ball was good, but his accuracy was underwhelming. Watson needed a great day because of numerous lingering concerns from NFL teams, as well as his poor showing in the throwing-power drill at the combine, as his ball velocity measured at just 49 mph, which was far worse than the other top quarterbacks: "