Vacchiano: Giants down on the OL in the draft

from Tuesday on this topic ;-)

I'm loving this consistent confirmation from multiple sources that the Giants have their minds right regarding the talent level of this OL class. I think we're going to get this one right.

Smoke screen?

everywhere else.

is supposed to be good for QBs. What about the 2018 Oline class?

In comment 13437567 mrvax said:

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is supposed to be good for QBs. What about the 2018 Oline class?

McGlinchey and Nelson of Notre Dame are probably better than any T or G in this class. Beyond that, doesn't look that great.

what will be included in a trade up....

Giants will draft best OL and DE on their board in first two rounds. It will be BPA at a need position like always. Taking the highest rated player on your board is a myth. Giants need to get stronger on both lines.

In comment 13437599 averagejoe said:

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Giants will draft best OL and DE on their board in first two rounds. It will be BPA at a need position like always. Taking the highest rated player on your board is a myth. Giants need to get stronger on both lines.

So CB was more of a need than LT or was Apple higher than Tunsil on their board?

It's not a myth, it's how good teams operate.

In comment 13437599 averagejoe said:

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Giants will draft best OL and DE on their board in first two rounds. It will be BPA at a need position like always. Taking the highest rated player on your board is a myth. Giants need to get stronger on both lines.

Reaching for an OL is not the way to do that.

In comment 13437588 jeff57 said:

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In comment 13437567 mrvax said: Quote: is supposed to be good for QBs. What about the 2018 Oline class? McGlinchey and Nelson of Notre Dame are probably better than any T or G in this class. Beyond that, doesn't look that great.

Disagree. The OT class looks great. McGlinchey, Jamarco Jones from Ohio State, the LT from Western Michigan, Orlando Brown from Oklahoma, Mitch Hyatt of Clemson... All could be blue chip OT prospects come next April.

Look at the grouping that the Giants typically draft. DL and CB are high on the list. Miraculously, the area of highest need is almost always on the list (granted, there's almost always an area of highest need in any category).

It's well established that the Giants have tiers of players. within any tier, area of need/value takes precedence. it's rare that a higher tier player is still available, so Giants usually don't have to make a choice of BPA over player of need. You really think Pugh, or Flowers, or Wilson was BPA? They were all players of need.

If an OL is available in the top rounds who fills the bill, he will be selected. It doesn't matter if there isn't a top prospect OL. that top prospect won't be available at 23.

..that there is decent depth in terms of guys with tools that represent strong development projects, but a shortage of likely plug-in starters. NYG don't have sufficient margin for error to take on another project in that room.

In comment 13437650 fkap said:

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Look at the grouping that the Giants typically draft. DL and CB are high on the list. Miraculously, the area of highest need is almost always on the list (granted, there's almost always an area of highest need in any category). It's well established that the Giants have tiers of players. within any tier, area of need/value takes precedence. it's rare that a higher tier player is still available, so Giants usually don't have to make a choice of BPA over player of need. You really think Pugh, or Flowers, or Wilson was BPA? They were all players of need. If an OL is available in the top rounds who fills the bill, he will be selected. It doesn't matter if there isn't a top prospect OL. that top prospect won't be available at 23.

You can absolutely make a case that they were the BPA. For example the group taken after Flowers wasn't that great save for Gordon and Peters.

1 10 St. Louis Rams Todd Gurley † RB Georgia SEC
1 11 Minnesota Vikings Trae Waynes CB Michigan State
1 12 Cleveland Browns Danny Shelton DT Washington
1 13 New Orleans Saints Andrus Peat OT Stanford
1 14 Miami Dolphins DeVante Parker WR Louisville
1 15 San Diego Chargers Melvin Gordon † RB Wisconsin
1 16 Houston Texans Kevin Johnson CB Wake Forest
1 17 San Francisco 49ers Arik Armstead DE Oregon
1 18 Kansas City Chiefs Marcus Peters † CB Washington

In comment 13437599 averagejoe said:

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Giants will draft best OL and DE on their board in first two rounds. It will be BPA at a need position like always. Taking the highest rated player on your board is a myth. Giants need to get stronger on both lines.

Pretty much this. Need is going to be a heavy factor when the Giants are on the clock at 23.

BPA is a myth, and Reese alluded to this when he talked about how the put their current roster on the board vs the prospects. The only reason Reese says BPA is because it deters people from criticizing the pick.

Well said. These aren't 1st round talents.

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"down" can be used as slang to mean very interested in something.

Vacchiano thinks he is a hipster doofus..

In comment 13437599 averagejoe said:

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Giants will draft best OL and DE on their board in first two rounds. It will be BPA at a need position like always. Taking the highest rated player on your board is a myth. Giants need to get stronger on both lines.

Sure it will. Always? So CB was the biggest "need" last year?

Hell, Milton's been going down on Cam Robinson for a while now.

I keed, I keed!

they don't believe any of the current linemen could walk right in and start.



They will draft an OL in the first round and have him RUN onto the field and start opening day

In comment 13437514 Victor in CT said:

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from Tuesday on this topic ;-)

Exactly. And it's great how the Giants are absolutely candid with these guys. I mean, teams never try to create smoke screens.

In comment 13438103 Glover said:

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In comment 13437514 Victor in CT said: Quote: from Tuesday on this topic ;-) Exactly. And it's great how the Giants are absolutely candid with these guys. I mean, teams never try to create smoke screens.

I know we all want to believe that the Giants are a step ahead of the competition, but when have they ever successfully pulled off a smokescreen? How many times have the beat writers nailed who Giants were targeting? How many times have BBI asshats?

The Giants are way more transparent than any of us would like to believe. And based on the way that Dave Te describes the intel he scrapes from scouts, I think that's where the info comes from.

We need to draft playmakers and not play preventers.

The time to fix the oline was when we passed on tunsil.

In comment 13438173 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13438103 Glover said: Quote: In comment 13437514 Victor in CT said: Quote: from Tuesday on this topic ;-) Exactly. And it's great how the Giants are absolutely candid with these guys. I mean, teams never try to create smoke screens. I know we all want to believe that the Giants are a step ahead of the competition, but when have they ever successfully pulled off a smokescreen? .

Actually, I think the opposite is true. Most people seem to want to believe the team is incompetent.

How would anyone know if they DID pull off a smokescreen? It's not something anyone can prove one way or the other, since they never say anything other than "we got the top guy on our board". Literally the only reason we have this urban legend that the Giants always get fooled in the draft is because fans want something to complain about, so we pick whatever article suits the narrative. Weird how draft season seems to be the only time people have no problems accepting rumors and reports as the stone cold truth. There's no other point in the year Giants media is ever so well considered.

In comment 13437650 fkap said:

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Look at the grouping that the Giants typically draft. DL and CB are high on the list. Miraculously, the area of highest need is almost always on the list (granted, there's almost always an area of highest need in any category). It's well established that the Giants have tiers of players. within any tier, area of need/value takes precedence. it's rare that a higher tier player is still available, so Giants usually don't have to make a choice of BPA over player of need. You really think Pugh, or Flowers, or Wilson was BPA? They were all players of need. If an OL is available in the top rounds who fills the bill, he will be selected. It doesn't matter if there isn't a top prospect OL. that top prospect won't be available at 23.

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Exactly, put another way, it is GM speak.
Some of the younger fans tend to buy into BPA theory.
The next time you here ANY GM say before the draft,
we are drafting for need this year...will be the first time.
Besides the examples you listed, here is a classic
example of a need pick late in the Rd. 1, his name was Hakeem Nicks....drafted right after the Per-Plaxico incident.

or BPA. BBI should consider moving on to which comes first, the chicken or the egg.

more posters here need to read his comments...

when our pick comes up. Within that group of "bpa" they will pick for need. I still think we go OL, because #23 is roughly where the top 4 are rated. So the value (bpa if you like) should be there and the need is definitely there.

In comment 13437635 Anakim said:

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In comment 13437588 jeff57 said: Quote: In comment 13437567 mrvax said: Quote: is supposed to be good for QBs. What about the 2018 Oline class? McGlinchey and Nelson of Notre Dame are probably better than any T or G in this class. Beyond that, doesn't look that great. Disagree. The OT class looks great. McGlinchey, Jamarco Jones from Ohio State, the LT from Western Michigan, Orlando Brown from Oklahoma, Mitch Hyatt of Clemson... All could be blue chip OT prospects come next April.

That's a pretty good list, but you forgot Connor Williams from Texas who could be the top OT in next years draft if he declares. I'm not sure that Williams wouldn't have been the top OT in this draft and a top 10 pick if he was able to come out this year as a true sophomore. He is really good. I've heard Joe Thomas comparisons for him.

I'm not sure how anyone can look at the potential OT class next year and not realize how good it could be.

In comment 13437922 Klaatu said:

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Hell, Milton's been going down on Cam Robinson for a while now. I keed, I keed!

I enjoy (and deserve) good-natured ribbing...
But surely you can be more clever than that! - ( New Window )