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Great article on O-line, Flowers by Geoff Schwartz

bigblue12 : 4/25/2017 4:37 pm
really good read
Link - ( New Window )
My biggest issue with the Flowers  
jvm52106 : 4/25/2017 4:51 pm : link
supporters, who constantly say he is only 21, is that his problems aren't that he hasn't filled out his body yet, hasn't had enough playing time and is just starting to get the mental thing down, it is the fact that his biggest asset (size/strength) is constantly negated by his technique. We are not talking blocking schemes, recognizing the calls, knowing your switch offs or responsibilities. We are talking how to actually play the position physically. His technique is awful. I am no OL coach or expert but look at old school Jumbo Elliott, a far inferior athlete but close in size and see a guy that by the end of his rookie season was beginning to dominant at the line of scrimmage in the run game. By his third season he was man handling Richard Dent in a playoff game. I watch Flowers and I see a guy who really shouldn't be a RT let alone a LT with his poor technique and very sloppy feet and hands...
yeah I guess there's some  
bluepepper : 4/25/2017 4:59 pm : link
good insights there but count me as put off by a guy pissing all over a former teammate. Plenty of OL to use as examples, he's gotta pick Flowers? Maybe I'd be more receptive if Schwartz had actually earned his paycheck while here.
wow  
Andy in Boston : 4/25/2017 5:00 pm : link
might be the best oline article I've ever read.
Impressive by Schwartz.
Great talent and a huge physical  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/25/2017 5:00 pm : link
Advantage have hurt Flowers. Let's hope he can clean up some I need this. One would think the players association would be ok more practice time if a player wants to work on his game. Especially non contact stuff
fuck Schwartz. A lot of time pontificating from a guy who made  
Victor in CT : 4/25/2017 5:01 pm : link
alot of $$ for very little production
I understand the need for a good corps of CBs...  
Klaatu : 4/25/2017 5:01 pm : link
But I don't think I'll ever understand the Giants passing on Taylor Decker to draft Eli Apple. Heavy sigh.
RE: fuck Schwartz. A lot of time pontificating from a guy who made  
Vin R : 4/25/2017 5:04 pm : link
In comment 13441874 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
alot of $$ for very little production


Retweet
Nice Link.  
RAIN : 4/25/2017 5:04 pm : link
"The key to drafting linemen is to look for techniques that translate to the NFL, rather than fawning over the physical traits of a particular lineman who has unfixable issues."

Sounds like the struggle. He's got alot of work to do.
Schwartz has been excellent at this transition from playing.  
robbieballs2003 : 4/25/2017 5:04 pm : link
I love reading his articles.
Just because he wasn't a great player  
Gman11 : 4/25/2017 5:10 pm : link
doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I thought it was a great article. It doesn't matter that he spent more time riding the stationary bike than he did playing.
That  
AcidTest : 4/25/2017 5:11 pm : link
is a great article. Incredibly informative. Well done Geoff.
Don't discredit the article  
phil in arizona : 4/25/2017 5:11 pm : link
simply because the author didn't perform up to expectations as a player here.
Good article.  
est1986 : 4/25/2017 5:14 pm : link
Quote:
The key to drafting linemen is to look for techniques that translate to the NFL, rather than fawning over the physical traits of a particular lineman who has unfixable issues.


Not the best news re: E.Flowers  
est1986 : 4/25/2017 5:22 pm : link
He confirmed the technique flaws we all knew he had but the worst part IMO is Geoff doesn't seem optimistic he can fix them. He points out he had the same problems in college.

One good thing he said re: E.Flowers
Quote:
There is plenty of good on Flowers’ film. When he is in good body position, no one can beat him on the edge.
RE: RE: fuck Schwartz. A lot of time pontificating from a guy who made  
mfsd : 4/25/2017 5:26 pm : link
In comment 13441877 Vin R said:
Quote:
In comment 13441874 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


alot of $$ for very little production



Retweet


Come on Vin, don't be a numbskull, that was an excellent article, very informative and I don't think Schwartz said "I" once
RE: RE: RE: fuck Schwartz. A lot of time pontificating from a guy who made  
Vin R : 4/25/2017 5:35 pm : link
In comment 13441909 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 13441877 Vin R said:


Quote:


In comment 13441874 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


alot of $$ for very little production



Retweet



Come on Vin, don't be a numbskull, that was an excellent article, very informative and I don't think Schwartz said "I" once


Haha I'm just poking fun at Geoff's love for Twitter
This is why  
PaulN : 4/25/2017 5:41 pm : link
Jerry Reese gets so much grief. He came here and we had one of the best Olines in the NFL, it has steadily got worse, and when you have an immobile franchise QB that has won two Super Bowls, and year after year we see the same garbage offensive line, and when he does have a shot at upgrading the line, whether it's a miss on a player like Flowers, or he misses out on drafting a good offensive lineman, it makes him look really bad, and makes you wonder if he will ever be able to correct his flaws as a GM. I am hoping he does, but time is running out on Eli, and we still have Flowers at left tackle, a real bad scenario is possible, Iam still hoping the kid can improve because he is supposed to be working hard, let's hope so, but this analysis really makes you wonder.
RE: RE: RE: RE: fuck Schwartz. A lot of time pontificating from a guy who made  
mfsd : 4/25/2017 5:52 pm : link
In comment 13441919 Vin R said:
Quote:
In comment 13441909 mfsd said:


Quote:


In comment 13441877 Vin R said:


Quote:


In comment 13441874 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


alot of $$ for very little production



Retweet



Come on Vin, don't be a numbskull, that was an excellent article, very informative and I don't think Schwartz said "I" once



Haha I'm just poking fun at Geoff's love for Twitter


Ah gotcha, subtle humor continues to be hard to follow sometimes
Well, he's pointing out the obvious...  
Johnny5 : 4/25/2017 5:52 pm : link
... those flaws were discussed ad-nauseum both before and after Flowers was drafted.

And being young DOES matter. The problem with people that are athletically dominant for so long is that they get away with the bad habits, I think that is the best point Schwartz makes. The fact that Flowers is so young means that he has less time reinforcing those bad habits and has more years establishing new technique. The problem for the Giants was that first year Beatty is lost for the season and the guy is thrown to the wolves with that flawed technique. It takes time. In my mind the most promising thing is that he played really well in the loss to GB in the playoffs, probably his best game of the year.

This is the year though. He NEEDS to be more consistent, he NEEDS to play like that GB game... and we need a real plan B this year if he does not.
RE: My biggest issue with the Flowers  
shyster : 4/25/2017 5:53 pm : link
In comment 13441861 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
supporters, who constantly say he is only 21,


He's 23 today. Happy birthday Mr Flowers. And may your age become a non-issue.




Incredibly well done.  
BP in Delray : 4/25/2017 6:02 pm : link
Also incredibly sobering re: Flowers.

I've been of the opinion that he's young, will definitely improve. Not sure I feel that way now.
Good article and clear-cut synopsis of Flowers' flaws  
Jimmy Googs : 4/25/2017 6:09 pm : link
Giants need a sense of urgency here to do something at LT before June rolls around.

For all those that don't want to force it with a less-than-stellar draft of O-lineman, you may wanna' re-think things...
RE: fuck Schwartz. A lot of time pontificating from a guy who made  
Giantology : 4/25/2017 6:15 pm : link
In comment 13441874 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
alot of $$ for very little production


The guy was injured. Also, its not like he was spending your money, so why are you so butt hurt?
Flowers is pretty close to being...  
M.S. : 4/25/2017 6:17 pm : link

...a draft bust given his selection at #9.

For someone to regress in Year 2, while being healthier than in Year 1, is a very bad sign.

Maybe he doesn't take to coaching very well... maybe he developed very bad habits in college that he can't break.

And maybe he never makes it past a 1-contract NFL career.

We've got a problem at left tackle... a very big one.



Feels weird to see guys call out someone for injuries.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/25/2017 6:19 pm : link
He broke a leg, and broke an ankle. What kind of knucklehead shit is this for acting like those aren't legit injuries.
RE: This is why  
81_Great_Dane : 4/25/2017 6:34 pm : link
In comment 13441926 PaulN said:
Quote:
Jerry Reese gets so much grief. He came here and we had one of the best Olines in the NFL, it has steadily got worse...
I have a lot of problems with the way the Giants have handled their O-line over the last 10 years or so, but do you realize how long Jerry Reese has been with the Giants? Over 20 years.

College scout 1994–1997
Pro scout, 1997–2004
Director of player personnel, 2004–2007
General manager, 2007–present

When did they have this great O-line that steadily got worse after he arrived? Under Ray H_____ and Dan Reeves?

Enjoyed the article, but how can you say ...  
DonQuixote : 4/25/2017 6:46 pm : link
... some things are "unfixable" based in true scheme they played j. I get unprepared, but unfixable?
nice read  
rocco8112 : 4/25/2017 7:15 pm : link
.

Hopefully Flowers can improve. I know I have heard somewhere that most players make their biggest improvements from year one to year two. Take Collins for example who was solid as a rookie and now is a stud.

Hopefully Flowers can rebound and get better. The Giants are a solid o line away from being good enough to make a legit run.
Really good article  
Archer : 4/25/2017 7:16 pm : link
One significant takeaway from the article is that OL who come from pro style offenses are more likely to be successful than players who have never been in a 3 point stance.

I have noticed that this applies to edge rushers who have never played in a 3 point stance.

This makes a strong argument for Ramczyk.
He's an NFL OL  
old man : 4/25/2017 7:21 pm : link
Just not a LT.
he is never going to be a great LT  
Vanzetti : 4/25/2017 7:40 pm : link
but he will get better. Technique improves and even when he gets beaten by smaller men he will learn how to ride them just enough to give the QB that extra split second. The difference between a sack or hurry and a possible completion.
For all the talk about  
Doomster : 4/25/2017 8:45 pm : link
Flowers being strong and mean, have we ever seen him manhandle anyone?

A guy like JPP wins with speed......but he is almost neutralized by a good OT, that nails him and stops him dead in his tracks.....

For some reason, Flowers just does not do that...he is constantly back pedaling and if you put a move on him, he has to reach for the guy....speed rushers get 3-4 steps to get momentum, before they even engage the back pedaling Flowers....is it any wonder he is what he is?
anyone know how you make those clips from draftscout  
rasbutant : 4/25/2017 8:57 pm : link
like he has in the article?
RE: For all the talk about  
Diver_Down : 4/25/2017 9:07 pm : link
In comment 13442061 Doomster said:
Quote:
Flowers being strong and mean, have we ever seen him manhandle anyone?


Last season, he manhandled his opponent by clotheslining in a desperate attempt to impede the defender's progress to Eli. Of course, it was in his "best" game vs. Green Bay as many like to stake claim to show that he is improving. It was only 10 yards of his total 110 yards in penalties last season.
There are plenty examples of him manhandling defenders...  
Johnny5 : 4/25/2017 10:48 pm : link
... but it is in the running game. He was a wrecking ball run blocking in the 1st Washington game last season. Hopefully he will tie it in to pass pro FINALLY.

And that Green Bay WAS a very good game for him.

We'll see. I hope he pulls it together. We need him.
Rooting for a contribution from Eric Flowers  
WillieYoung : 4/26/2017 7:21 am : link
Is the triumph of hope over expectation
RE: Rooting for a contribution from Eric Flowers  
Johnny5 : 4/26/2017 8:03 am : link
In comment 13442272 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
Is the triumph of hope over expectation

Hard to disagree. But hope is all we have... lol. If he doesn't become more consistent we can kiss another one of Eli's seasons adios.
RE: RE: This is why  
Carson53 : 4/26/2017 8:28 am : link
In comment 13441977 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
In comment 13441926 PaulN said:


Quote:


Jerry Reese gets so much grief. He came here and we had one of the best Olines in the NFL, it has steadily got worse...

I have a lot of problems with the way the Giants have handled their O-line over the last 10 years or so, but do you realize how long Jerry Reese has been with the Giants? Over 20 years.

College scout 1994–1997
Pro scout, 1997–2004
Director of player personnel, 2004–2007
General manager, 2007–present

When did they have this great O-line that steadily got worse after he arrived? Under Ray H_____ and Dan Reeves?
.

In 2006-08, he had very good offensive lines.
Look at their rushing stats in '07, top ten.
In '08, top five in the league. In 2008, they had
TWO 1,000 yard rushers in Jacobs and Ward.
great article  
AnnapolisMike : 4/26/2017 8:46 am : link
I'm glad he choose Flowers and I think he was complimentary of Flowers in some ways. He has technique issues which are well known.
Very intersting  
Pete in MD : 4/26/2017 9:13 am : link
article. O-line play is so important but seldom analyzed in detail because it's one of the least sexy parts of the game (I'm still waiting for Steve Weatherford to write his piece on executing the perfect coffin corner punt.)
great article  
PaulBlakeTSU : 4/26/2017 9:13 am : link
I wonder if there is going to be a shift in the college level of top O-line prospects with NFL aspirations avoiding programs with spread offenses.
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