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The case for Watson if he's at 23

DennyInDenville : 4/25/2017 11:34 pm
1.) Eli might have 3 years left and that's it. (Damn maybe don't draft a QB then and go for it all now?

Or play it long term.

Watson is cost controlled for 5 years as a 1st round pick. Earning low money years 1-4 with a nice bonus in year 5.

Eli leaves after 3 years.

Watson with 3 years grooming comes in and plays pretty well. Macadoo plays a nice system for him, defenses arent well versed in his play etc he's new.

Now he could be our Aaron Rodgers light and we keep him and extend him.

If he puts up a big year in Year 4 , year 1 as a starter due to all those factors , Reese can then decide , okay this is my Aaron Rodgers, Watson has become an elite QB, holy moly awesome! Or , okay he's about what we thought he would be, above average at best masked behind a nice system and lack of other teams knowing his game. The Giants could then go ahead and trade him as a HOT ASSET maybe even Garrapolo like and then in year 5 the Giants Trade Watson to move up in the draft or help them absorb the cost to move up in another deal and grab a top Talent if one exists that year.

Just a thought , could also light a raging fire under Elis ass

I hope we don't do this as this plan isn't a slam dunk

I hope Eli gives us 3 more great seasons
I hope to God not  
GiantsLaw : 4/25/2017 11:40 pm : link
1. He does nothing to help us win in Eli's remaining window
2. Every time Eli throws an INT we'll get a sideline shot of Watson. We'll have to deal with constant QB controversy
RE: I hope to God not  
DennyInDenville : 4/25/2017 11:41 pm : link
In comment 13442203 GiantsLaw said:
Quote:
1. He does nothing to help us win in Eli's remaining window
2. Every time Eli throws an INT we'll get a sideline shot of Watson. We'll have to deal with constant QB controversy

Definitely great points, I agree
You'll Get Eli Manning!  
River : 4/25/2017 11:47 pm : link
And You'll like It!
"Just a thought, could also light a raging fire under Elis ass"  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/25/2017 11:49 pm : link
Why is this a thing?
Like his makeup  
Marty866b : 4/25/2017 11:54 pm : link
But not his physical skills. Doesn't have great size and IMO lacks arm strength. i don't see him throwing the ball well in a cold and windy MetLife Stadium. Don't like Kizer but he checks more boxes.
no  
YAJ2112 : 4/25/2017 11:54 pm : link
.
Hammer you could be right but  
Watson : 4/25/2017 11:55 pm : link
Eli has always struck me as the self motivated type.
Great idea!!!  
JohnB : 6:37 am : link
Sit him for 3 years. His first year on the field is his contract year. So after 16 games, Reese must decide to franchise or let him walk. Is he a superstar or someone you are willing to let go.... there is no in between. You wasted a 1st rounder and 4 years developing him only to be handed clusterf*&k of a problem.

So you think it's a good idea to have a "Kirk Cousins on the Hudson" problem?

Sorry I can't agree with your thought process.
No Thanks  
ZogZerg : 6:38 am : link
No QB at 23.
You started a thread for Mahomes  
UConn4523 : 6:39 am : link
too using the same reasons, so which is it?
Boy, that's some case you've made  
Giantology : 7:04 am : link
.
Trade up to #8  
Kivorka : 7:15 am : link
and take a game changer....McCaffery
Let's light a fire under that two-time Super Bowl winner  
Neckbone1333 : 7:15 am : link
Denny, are you one of those guys that gets mad when Eli doesn't yell on the sideline and has a straight face?
Dear God,  
B in ALB : 7:19 am : link
Please make it stop.
I ve said this before  
joeinpa : 7:34 am : link
When you have a chance for your next franchise quarterback you take him. Waiting until you need one is a formula for disaster.

If Giants believe their next QB is there, they will take him.
He is not he Giants next  
Neckbone1333 : 7:38 am : link
franchise QB.

Happy Feet
Joe  
Kivorka : 7:40 am : link
then why do you think the Giants moved up to take Nassib? That certainly wasn't a good decision in hindsight
RE: Trade up to #8  
section125 : 7:47 am : link
In comment 13442268 Kivorka said:
Quote:
and take a game changer....McCaffery


game changer?
Watson....  
....is now projected to go in the top 10 so this scenario is most likely improbable.
17 INTs last year, and a rather weak arm.  
yatqb : 7:51 am : link
He's a leader, but he's not the QB I want in the Meadlowlands in December.
From all I have read  
AnnapolisMike : 7:52 am : link
None of these QB's is worth a high pick. Next year however the crop is expected to be great. If a nice value is staring you in the face on the third day...fine.

I am hoping a TE, LB, DE or CB first round that can contribute right away...
.  
Bill2 : 7:56 am : link
There is a good case for Jesse Palmer.

1) Very little wear and tear

2) Knows when to wear a helmet and when to wear a cap

3) Knows how to get to Giants Training facility on practice days and the Stadium on game days.

4) Has actually thrown a football in Met Life Stadium

5) Best of all, can be signed as a UDFA. That way we can use draft slots to build a sure Super Bowl dynasty around him.

6) Total surprise to the rest of the NFL. No team will leap frog us to steal away our target. The entire Division will be caught flatfooted. Even Little Bill will be flummoxed.

We have to keep this quiet. TC may take him.

.  
Bill2 : 7:57 am : link
Hey Yatqb. Hope you are well.
Watson's the best QB in this class  
Torrag : 7:59 am : link
If the Giants have the grade on him and pull the trigger so be it. It's not what I would do but you'd understand the reasoning with Eli 36 years old. That said I do think Eli is a 'young' 36 and has avoided the physical repercussions of serious injuries. I think the Giants would agonize over this one and ultimately they won't do it.
No.  
AcidTest : 8:03 am : link
Don't want any QB at #23, or in the entire draft. Maybe Seth Russell late on day three, if he's healthy.
I would be fine with Watson at 23  
Jimmy Googs : 8:08 am : link
its not like Eli doesn't throw interceptions too...
Watch Watson at Grudens camp  
Carl in CT : 8:11 am : link
He can't remember plays. A big Pass
I'm starting to like McCaffery.  
Carl in CT : 8:12 am : link
More than I did. If you watch him on tape he has got great skills.
For those reasons listed,  
SHO'NUFF : 8:19 am : link
we can get Nate Peterman in later rounds
.  
Bill2 : 8:19 am : link
More seriously, my reasons for not drafting a QB this year include wishing McAdoo had another year before adding the challenge of developing a franchise QB. That is a test many a coach does not master. Trying to do it while Eli may have a prime year left and the OL is porous; leaves me hoping we get another year to solidify the chances of success
First of all, this air of CERTAINTY as to Eli's years here is getting  
Big Blue '56 : 8:26 am : link
tiresome..As long as Brady and Brees have and will do it, there's NO REASON to not believe Eli won't..Throw Favre in there..Eli's in great physical shape and his arm is still productive, imv..Just because the heirarchy talks about looking into the future in response to being bombarded with questions as to WHEN we "look to the future," doesn't mean Eli cannot play until he's 40 and beyond which I believe will happen..

In the end, no one knows..I never said that Eli WILL PLAY another 5-7 years, I said I BELIEVE HE WILL..

Secondly, not knowing the QBs in this draft at all, I still find it rather amusing how an ostensible meh list of QBs THIS YEAR as compared to next year's crop, GROWS in stature as we get closer to draft day..😎
You have an 11-5 team which can be instantly improved, but no  
we draft a 3 year project who is not physically that good. Simple description - the idea is stupid.

Bill, you forgot #7!  
Doomster : 8:44 am : link
Bill2 : 7:56 am : link : reply
There is a good case for Jesse Palmer.


7. Knows how to hold a clip board.....he will need some training to transition to a tablet, though....
Eli didn't have a very good year last season so don't dismiss a QB  
Jimmy Googs : 8:47 am : link
While his own O-line gave him fits, Eli was often subject to dropping his eyes, missing on way too many downfield throws. And still has the penchant for really poor ints whereas he forces the ball.

Maybe, just maybe, the Front Office is more worried about continued decline than they are confident in a bounce-back season...
RE: Eli didn't have a very good year last season so don't dismiss a QB  
Big Blue '56 : 8:54 am : link
In comment 13442344 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
While his own O-line gave him fits, Eli was often subject to dropping his eyes, missing on way too many downfield throws. And still has the penchant for really poor ints whereas he forces the ball.

Maybe, just maybe, the Front Office is more worried about continued decline than they are confident in a bounce-back season...


If you have Game Pass, watch the weekly Coach's tape..You will see that Eli hasn't lost much, if anything..Watch the push up the middle forcing Eli out of his comfort zone..That more than anything(in addition to zero running game), contributed to Eli's "down year." He's thrown stupid INTs since 2004..I learned far more from the Game Pass coach's tape than watching on TV, even with slo-mo review..Far more
Thanks but I don't have it. Nevertheless, it was clear Eli started  
Jimmy Googs : 9:05 am : link
doing some things last season that I was not used to seeing and I didn't need slow-motion.

While obviously never a scrambler, he was always good at navigating and wiggling around a pocket to grab an extra second or two. But last season it was way more of just throwing it immediately into the ground or at a nearby target's feet.

The downfield throws were very troubling, missing both long & short way too often. Maybe a sign of guy trying to use more arm strength than legs, and the arm isn't quite there any more.

And I am an Eli fan...
Mahomes  
JonC : 9:07 am : link
.
RE: Thanks but I don't have it. Nevertheless, it was clear Eli started  
Big Blue '56 : 9:14 am : link
In comment 13442372 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
doing some things last season that I was not used to seeing and I didn't need slow-motion.

While obviously never a scrambler, he was always good at navigating and wiggling around a pocket to grab an extra second or two. But last season it was way more of just throwing it immediately into the ground or at a nearby target's feet.

The downfield throws were very troubling, missing both long & short way too often. Maybe a sign of guy trying to use more arm strength than legs, and the arm isn't quite there any more.

And I am an Eli fan...


Certainly, you can be proven correct, but Eli was under siege all year..Small sample size, but remember how mediocre Brady looked against us in SB XLII for 3 1/2 quarters until Spags (he admitted he erred there)for that final Pats TD drive took the pedal off the metal? Extrapolate that over an entire season and that's what I saw from Eli last year..Perhaps I'm subjective objective, but that's how I saw it..Of course, if the OL doesn't improve its play, if the Running game stays meh, he might only last another 2 years, as I see it..
And Googs, get Game Pass..It's $99 for the entire  
Big Blue '56 : 9:18 am : link
year or the approximate cost of 1 pack of cigarettes per month..It's a 'fan-changer' imo..It helps me see what Joey, dorgan, JonC and many others see routinely..

It has archived over 5 seasons of games league-wise(including all playoff games and SBs), no commercials whether you watch the full game or the 35 minute every play composite version..

Hi, Bill.  
yatqb : 9:20 am : link
Hope you and the family are well also.

I agree with Jon C. If it's a QB, it will be Mahomes, since Trubisky won't get down to 23.
there are two factors  
fkap : 9:21 am : link
Eli's time is limited. whether it's really limited, or 3 years left is a subset of that.

Whether a QB worthy of picking is on the board when the Giants make a selection.

a QB being worthy of picking is the main consideration. If the answer is no, then don't pick one, even if Eli is hit by a bus tonight and our starting QB is Sanchez.

But, IF you think there's a QB worthy, pick him, even if you think Eli has 3 years left. You do NOT build a team around a 2-3 year window, when you have an opportunity to make it a 10 year window.

RE: Mahomes  
Devon : 9:27 am : link
In comment 13442378 JonC said:
Quote:
.


Hopefully the Cardinals or Saints do the Giants a favor and take him first. Or maybe the Texans can even sneak in and trade up for him.
RE: Hi, Bill.  
AcidTest : 9:28 am : link
In comment 13442408 yatqb said:
Quote:
Hope you and the family are well also.

I agree with Jon C. If it's a QB, it will be Mahomes, since Trubisky won't get down to 23.


Mahomes won't get to #23 either. If it's a QB at #23, it's either Kizer or Webb, maybe Watson. I vote not on all three, and also wouldn't take Mahomes if he someone slipped that far.
Don't want a QB at 23, but I think....  
Crispino : 9:37 am : link
Watson is going to be very good in the right offense. He's a proven winner on the big stage, and I think he's certainly got comparable skills to Dak Prescott's.
You're probably right, AcidTest. But I wouldn't take  
yatqb : 9:39 am : link
Kizer at all, and I'd also pass on Webb in the 1st. I think that Kizer is a minor head case...lots of poor dcisions. I'd never risk a 1st on him.

I do like Webb a lot, but not in the 1st.
This QB class pretty much sucks  
PatersonPlank : 9:39 am : link
There are QB's of this caliber coming out all the time.
Kivorka  
joeinpa : 9:41 am : link
No it wasn't t. But my poInt is they thought he could be the guy so they took him. They will do that again this draft if they think their guy is there
I don't want a QB now either  
JonC : 9:42 am : link
but hearing Mahomes is in play.
In a normal, none of these QBs are round 1 picks.  
Ivan15 : 9:51 am : link
They are better than average college QBs but that is all.

And I think the Giants don't care about a QB who makes most of his plays on the run or outside the pocket.

Maybe if someone they like drops to round 2, they could consider him. But I don't think they squander any of the 3 premium picks on a QB.
RE: I don't want a QB now either  
yatqb : 10:04 am : link
In comment 13442469 JonC said:
Quote:
but hearing Mahomes is in play.


Interesting. I'd be kind of excited about that pick, as I think that both he and Trubisky could turn into something special (or flame out, but I'm gonna take the positive viewpoint here).
Maybe someone can explain this to me, regarding a weak QB class.  
DonQuixote : 11:34 am : link
The Giants are going to need a QB soon. Eli has been durable but you cannot guarantee that into the future. The Giants are a decent team, so we hope they do not pick in the top 10 for the next few years.

To me, it doesn't matter if next year is the greatest ever QB class. What if we pick 23 or lower and what can we get with that pick? Is a QB @23 this year worse than next?

If I understand the process, the Giants are going to evaluate players across years, a great QB class next year does not mean a great QB drops. So if they see a value in a QB at 23 this year...so be it.
DonQ - agree  
Jimmy Googs : 11:42 am : link
same point with O-lineman in this class. Cannot presume will be picking early next year for a top Left Tackle either.

Kicking the can for better crop of players comes with risk as well...
RE: Maybe someone can explain this to me, regarding a weak QB class.  
UConn4523 : 11:47 am : link
In comment 13442776 DonQuixote said:
Quote:
The Giants are going to need a QB soon. Eli has been durable but you cannot guarantee that into the future. The Giants are a decent team, so we hope they do not pick in the top 10 for the next few years.

To me, it doesn't matter if next year is the greatest ever QB class. What if we pick 23 or lower and what can we get with that pick? Is a QB @23 this year worse than next?

If I understand the process, the Giants are going to evaluate players across years, a great QB class next year does not mean a great QB drops. So if they see a value in a QB at 23 this year...so be it.


Its not so much the class as it Eli is still playing and healthy and riding the bench for anymore than a year will be a waste. When you can get an impact player who can help take our offense or defense to the next level, it trumps riding the pine to hopefully be Eli's successor (and there's no guarantee whoever we take will even pan out at QB) in however many years it will be down the line (each year is 1 year less we'd pay on the rookie scale for a starting QB).
RE: DonQ - agree  
DonQuixote : 11:59 am : link
In comment 13442783 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Kicking the can for better crop of players comes with risk as well...


This is true.
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