Someone one twitter, for the thousanth time, asked about the Giants drafting Njoku and why did Jordan pick Bolles instead of Njoku in the ESPN mock draft
| @JordanRaanan y did u mock Bolles last night? G-men said pick would b on talent and Njouku still on the board. Thy dont like the o-line clas |
Raanan responsed pretty matter-of-fact
Jordan Raanan& #8207;Verified account @JordanRaanan
Explanation coming in 5 minutes. Just b/c OL class not great doesn't mean they can't like some. And b/c they're not drafting Njoku. #Giants |
Accept it.
People aren't accepting it because he fits the things (athleticism, age) that the Giants seem to prioritize with their first pick. Garret Bolles, OTOH, is the antithesis of a player they draft. He's older than Odell. He's way older than Landon Collins, Ereck Flowers, and Eli Apple. He's 4 months younger than Jonathan Hankins, who just completed his rookie contract.
It's entirely possible the Giants don't draft Njoku for some reason or another. But he has the profile of a Giants high draft pick. Bolles doesn't. If they do draft Bolles, I think it says a lot more about their need at the position than how they view the individual player.
jordan probably right on the latter. doesnt mean they dont like him (and the 3 TEs).
Accept it.
Based on what? Is Raanan Jerry Reese?
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that they aren't picking Njoku.
Accept it.
People aren't accepting it because he fits the things (athleticism, age) that the Giants seem to prioritize with their first pick. Garret Bolles, OTOH, is the antithesis of a player they draft. He's older than Odell. He's way older than Landon Collins, Ereck Flowers, and Eli Apple. He's 4 months younger than Jonathan Hankins, who just completed his rookie contract.
It's entirely possible the Giants don't draft Njoku for some reason or another. But he has the profile of a Giants high draft pick. Bolles doesn't. If they do draft Bolles, I think it says a lot more about their need at the position than how they view the individual player.
You aren't factoring in what we deem a premier position into the above. You can make a case for Bolles and Njoku but only 1 plays a position that we usually covet in round 1. What holds more value is yet to be seen...
I don't see how he "fits the mold". Reese is fairly consistent with positions he drafts in round 1. TE isn't among them. Taking Njoku would be very much out of character.
I think some fans want Njoku and are desperately arguing with anyone that says he won't be the pick. They are collectively covering their ears and shouting "la la la Njoku."
Imo there will be a lot of good options at 23, but the Njoku brigade has tunnel vision right now.
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that they aren't picking Njoku.
Accept it.
Based on what? Is Raanan Jerry Reese?
...and this Giants regime's tendencies, and hotdog, and JonC, and Dave, and the fact that they cancelled his visit.
Are you being willfully dense?
I don't see how he "fits the mold". Reese is fairly consistent with positions he drafts in round 1. TE isn't among them. Taking Njoku would be very much out of character.
I think some fans want Njoku and are desperately arguing with anyone that says he won't be the pick. They are collectively covering their ears and shouting "la la la Njoku."
Imo there will be a lot of good options at 23, but the Njoku brigade has tunnel vision right now.
I just don't get your reasoning. Yeah, we haven't taken a TE in the first round under Reese's watch, but Njoku is a young, extremely athletic, high character guy that fits the mold of what Reese likes in the first round (see: JPP, OBJ, Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple).
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In comment 13442545 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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that they aren't picking Njoku.
Accept it.
Based on what? Is Raanan Jerry Reese?
...and this Giants regime's tendencies, and hotdog, and JonC, and Dave, and the fact that they cancelled his visit.
Are you being willfully dense?
So because they cancelled his visit it means that he's not going to be the pick? You realize that over the course of the past few years, the Giants don't bring in a lot of prospects to work out and they've shown that they're more than willing to take someone that they haven't shown that much interest in.
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but everything is pointing away from Njoku.
I don't see how he "fits the mold". Reese is fairly consistent with positions he drafts in round 1. TE isn't among them. Taking Njoku would be very much out of character.
I think some fans want Njoku and are desperately arguing with anyone that says he won't be the pick. They are collectively covering their ears and shouting "la la la Njoku."
Imo there will be a lot of good options at 23, but the Njoku brigade has tunnel vision right now.
I just don't get your reasoning. Yeah, we haven't taken a TE in the first round under Reese's watch, but Njoku is a young, extremely athletic, high character guy that fits the mold of what Reese likes in the first round (see: JPP, OBJ, Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple).
That is the reasoning. We value TE less than the norm. For Njoku to be the pick, he'd have to be very much ahead of the next ranked guy at a premium position. He's also not the only young, athletic, high character guy that will be an option at 23, so there's that too.
Not in my top for preferred picks, but there is some talent there at least.
The situation with Conley will impact the board for CBs, but I still think TD White could be in play. NYG like the position, school and conference.
Personally I would go playmaker at TE or RB if we could but I anticipate Howard, Njoku, Cook and McCaffrey will all be off the board by 23.
The value at #23 lines up perfectly for the top 4 OL players. Look at Sy's ratings for one example. All 4 are 79-83, which is late first round approximately.
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In comment 13442631 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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but everything is pointing away from Njoku.
I don't see how he "fits the mold". Reese is fairly consistent with positions he drafts in round 1. TE isn't among them. Taking Njoku would be very much out of character.
I think some fans want Njoku and are desperately arguing with anyone that says he won't be the pick. They are collectively covering their ears and shouting "la la la Njoku."
Imo there will be a lot of good options at 23, but the Njoku brigade has tunnel vision right now.
I just don't get your reasoning. Yeah, we haven't taken a TE in the first round under Reese's watch, but Njoku is a young, extremely athletic, high character guy that fits the mold of what Reese likes in the first round (see: JPP, OBJ, Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple).
That is the reasoning. We value TE less than the norm. For Njoku to be the pick, he'd have to be very much ahead of the next ranked guy at a premium position. He's also not the only young, athletic, high character guy that will be an option at 23, so there's that too.
"We value TE less than the norm" - we also value linebackers less than the norm but that didn't stop us from being interested in Leonard Floyd and presumably in Davis and Cunningham.
I don't know why you are so defensive on this.
I don't know why you are so defensive on this.
OK, so would you be willing to say that Cunningham and Davis are out of the question at 23?
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we clearly liked his pass rush capabilities or he wouldn't have been in the convo that high.
I don't know why you are so defensive on this.
OK, so would you be willing to say that Cunningham and Davis are out of the question at 23?
I think 23 is a whole different ball game than 10 (Floyd). Cunningham doesn't seem to have the same length and seems to be a notch below Floyd in explosion. I'm guessing he won't be the pick (although the value at 23 vs. 10 can offset that). I suspect Davis will be in play due to wanting that every-down LBer who can run sideline to sideline, maybe we break the mold here.
With no more Hankins I'm also wondering if that alters the need to draft another playmaker on D (Davis for this argument) vs. adding a TE in round 1 when we've already improved our offense with Marshall/Ellison. I don't think Njoku will be out of consideration, but I'm guessing there will be other players ranked higher by the time its out pick.
Never said Giants weren't targeting Apple all along. That's my point. People don't know.
The beats never had him linked and were talking Hargreaves if anything happened at corner.
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but everything is pointing away from Njoku.
I don't see how he "fits the mold". Reese is fairly consistent with positions he drafts in round 1. TE isn't among them. Taking Njoku would be very much out of character.
I think some fans want Njoku and are desperately arguing with anyone that says he won't be the pick. They are collectively covering their ears and shouting "la la la Njoku."
Imo there will be a lot of good options at 23, but the Njoku brigade has tunnel vision right now.
I just don't get your reasoning. Yeah, we haven't taken a TE in the first round under Reese's watch, but Njoku is a young, extremely athletic, high character guy that fits the mold of what Reese likes in the first round (see: JPP, OBJ, Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple).
Normally you are correct about the process. Those previous picks are fair analogies to Njoku, based on youth, character, and athletic upside.
The bottom line: Ranaan has this called correctly. As hitdog mentioned, the team does not dislike Njoku. He's just not a 1st round player to them based on his one dimensionality. David Njoku is not a complete enough football player right now to be the 23rd pick.
Thrill Ride has used the term repeatedly: "risk aversion." That's how Jerry and co. operate in the 1st round. No matter how athletic Njoku looks, drafting him in hopes of teaching him to play TE constitutes risk. That's the organizational attitude.
Digging back further, it's not like Wilson or JPP were considered safe first rounders either.
Digging back further, it's not like Wilson or JPP were considered safe first rounders either.
All of the guys you mentioned had really high grades internally, especially Wilson (they loved him).
Admittedly, they preferred Scherf to Flowers but went 5th to Washington.
Every pick has some degree of risk, or projection, baked into it. JPP was a very unpopular pick based on his very limited body of work at USF.
From The Org perspective, the riskiest propositions involve medical (Gurley, Ramcyzk, Foster) and character (Tunsil).
Maybe this isn't the best conversational detour for David Njoku -- the team is just unconvinced he'll be a good enough two-way TE to justify pick 23. Remember, TE is a very cerebral position based on both the route definitons and blocking assignments -- that's a lot to learn for guy like Njoku who has not been playing TE very long.
Stated differently, the "risk" is that they'd be forgoing a more complete NFL player to take him, and he might be too much of project to get on the field and impact early in his career.
Do the Giants devalue TEs? Thrill Ride does not buy that narrative at all. We really liked Tyler Eifert in '13 but went with Pugh. And the player we wanted at #40 last year was Hunter Henry from Arkansas but the Chargers took hm 35th and we settled for Sterling.
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out of your a**. Most writers believed Heargraves was above Apple, but were the Giants saying that they liked him better than Apple? No.
Never said Giants weren't targeting Apple all along. That's my point. People don't know.
The beats never had him linked and were talking Hargreaves if anything happened at corner.
I understand what you are saying, but here is what you aren't getting.....A writer can have an opinion, but they can also pass along information they know. J-Raan is passing along information that the Giants won't draft Njoku at 23, but he also gives his opinion that they will draft Bolles.
Last year, the beats were givin information that the Gmen liked Floyd and Conklin, but their opinion was that Heargraves>Apple.
Bolles is literally the complete opposite of Flowers. Bolles positives are his feet and athletic ability. His negative is his strength and age. Flowers positive was his strength and his age. His negative was his athletic ability.
Yeah well,I don't see it like that.Flowers was considered a better athlete than your giving him credit.As far as strength,both look top heavy to me,and both are known for there dispositions.
Certainly Adams isn't the overall Athlete or has the natural hands of the top 3 guys, but he doesn't compare poorly to this year's TE class. Fan's often overvalue combine performances but just to use as comparison Adams would come out pretty good. Last year he was a top performer in 40 yds, vertical, 3 cone, & both shuttles. If he was competing this year, he would do the same. For example, his 40 time was the same as Njoku and his vertical was a lot better than Howard.
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but everything is pointing away from Njoku.
I don't see how he "fits the mold". Reese is fairly consistent with positions he drafts in round 1. TE isn't among them. Taking Njoku would be very much out of character.
I think some fans want Njoku and are desperately arguing with anyone that says he won't be the pick. They are collectively covering their ears and shouting "la la la Njoku."
Imo there will be a lot of good options at 23, but the Njoku brigade has tunnel vision right now.
I just don't get your reasoning. Yeah, we haven't taken a TE in the first round under Reese's watch, but Njoku is a young, extremely athletic, high character guy that fits the mold of what Reese likes in the first round (see: JPP, OBJ, Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple).
Fits the mold perhaps in terms of athletic ability, but the Giants don't simply draft the youngest best lathlete with a clean record.
You are leaving out the factor that likely has more sway over their decision making process: positional value. We have almost ten years of track record to go by where we can infer pretty easily that the Giants put a premium on WR, DE, CB ahead of other positions. People have been clamoring for TE since Shockey ended, and year after year that position does not show up in the early rounds.
We take every opportunity to try force the rationalization that THIS is the year they do it, and they don't. It's just not important to them.
jordan probably right on the latter. doesnt mean they dont like him (and the 3 TEs).
You are correct on this. I'm not saying they don't like them at all. I mean they won't take em at 23 unless it's Howard.
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they were way too aggressive and adamant about certain targets last season. And nobody had Apple up in that conversation the week prior while named-targets went later. Notice how much more downplayed their articles have been on specific players this week.
Furthermore, if the Giants felt they were subject to too many leaks last year, the prudent play would be to just shut the f-up this year versus throwing even more smokescreens. When 22 guys are going to be picked ahead of you, you think maybe the smoke-screen approach becomes kind of laughable?
Last year the beat writers were adamant about a couple of guys and nobody knew the interst in Apple, but all of the guys the beat writers said the Giants were interested in, were taken before us. This makes no sense. It's not like we passed on Floyd for Apple. Clearly the Giants had to change directions based on how it all unfolded.
Last year the Giants had the 10th pick in the draft. It's a lot easier to predict how the first ten prospects will come off the board than it is to predict how the first 23 prospects will come off the board. The added uncertainty means it's easier for teams drafting late to mask their likes and dislikes. It's harder to pretend you don't like a top ten prospect than it is to pretend you don't like a prospect projected to go in the 20-30 range.
As I've said before, we were spoiled by picking in the top 12 the past few years and now we are applying the same dynamics to drafting at #23 that we witnessed drafting at #10. It's a very different world drafting in the back third of round 1 than it is drafting in the top third.
Yes, I know he was the last pick in the first round, but I am trying to illustrate that while it is unlikely the Giants don't take a premium position, it is not some sacrosanct rule they follow.
This. My uninformed instinct is that if Corey Davis is there, they are running to the podium.
To the point that media/beats honing in on just a few key targets is not practical, even with inside info.
Going to be a long night Thursday before our guys get to the podium.
which is nice for a change...
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adamant about Njoku not being the man @ 23 says something.
Not to mention the Giants canceled Njoku team visit last minute (which to date I have read nothing that says why)
@NYGDaily
Draft Rumor: Per @nfldraftscout, New York Giants would "jump at the chance" to draft Miami TE David Njoku.
@NYGDaily
Draft Rumor: Per @nfldraftscout, New York Giants would "jump at the chance" to draft Miami TE David Njoku.
Maybe they're trying to do a better job of keeping their preferences under wraps than they did last year.
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by beats, and both went later...
Discussed by who? BBI'ers? The Giants expressed interest in Floyd and Conklin who were both taken right before them.
Says who? 4 of the 23 outlets said so?
No one really know anything right now. No one really knew anything last year. Anyone can connect the dots and report inside info when all it really is is guesswork based on analysis. You guys have to know that.
For every real leak there are fake leaks. Even if some of the leaks were true there is too much misinformation. The truth gets lost in the haze. Dozens of reporters have confirmed that they are lied to over and over this time of year.
@NYGDaily
Draft Rumor: Per @nfldraftscout, New York Giants would "jump at the chance" to draft Miami TE David Njoku.
Lol. I rest my case.
It's lying season.
Reese blew it off but maybe now he's playing his card and leaking this to Raanan as a nice smoke cloud
Yes, I know he was the last pick in the first round, but I am trying to illustrate that while it is unlikely the Giants don't take a premium position, it is not some sacrosanct rule they follow.
Point taken, Flowers represents breaking that pattern too, but even then he checked the size/measurables chart for a prototype LT.
And picking at the back of the round gives a good bit more leeway. It's why I'm not dismissing it entirely, but I still don't think it makes sense given the needs they have at those positions we know they value highly.
The idea that they would let this slip after what happened last year is so fucking Mickey Mouse and stupid that I almost don't believe it.
Please somebody help me with this
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and whether they like him for 23.
jordan probably right on the latter. doesnt mean they dont like him (and the 3 TEs).
You are correct on this. I'm not saying they don't like them at all. I mean they won't take em at 23 unless it's Howard.
Jordan.
Thrill Ride here. Still down in the trenches defending your work. Each year, your sources have pretty sharp intel. Keep doing what youre doing and don't let the NARPs drag you down!!
The Thrill Ride hears his own whispers and agrees about Njoku not being a complete enough TE to earn the 23rd pick.
Unless the stars align and Howard falls, Thrill narrows it to Jarrad Davis (your #1 likeliest), Adoree (still insist he's on our radar big-time), and Bolles (seemingly a necessity pick here but evidently they do like him).
If I'm right, we should exchange emails and totally hang out together right now.
-- T.Ride
The idea that they would let this slip after what happened last year is so fucking Mickey Mouse and stupid that I almost don't believe it.
Please somebody help me with this
You can't understand why teams leak fake draft interest?
If the Giants leak 5 different players to one batch of reporters and 5 more to another batch of reporters...mission accomplished, no one really knows who the Giants pick.
I can't believe how confounding this thing is. It shouldn't be. Every single year we go through the same process. Local reporters all sling different names around. 4-5 might get the first round right. 4-5 don't.
If you were running a team and draft how would you handle the local media? Do you really think Reese is telling any of these writers the truth? Even if some scout or personnel guy leaked the truth, it's lost within the haze of lies. It's impossible to tell truth from fiction.
Where does Jordan say "I have spoken to the Giants and they confirmed they won't draft Njoku?" ----nowhere did Jordan say that. He merely stated his opinion. It's an opinion that is rooted in research some sources, but there is nothing concrete here.
It's a writers opinion.
or garcia in the 2nd
couple of others could be good later rounds where i hope they find someone to knock jerry into a backup role finally a OG with possible RT options as neither fluker or hart look to be the answer possibly move pugh out to OT and slot hart or the draft pick in at OG? they need to fix the OL even with the poor draft class they need to do something about it
even if you like another player or position better or dont rate them highly enough i can agree with that but they badly need to upgrade the OL if they plan going deeper into the playoffs this year and not getting eli killed by his OL
TE i would hope is in the mix roaming the middle of the field with obj,shepard,vereen and marshall in that line up a threat TE could open things up for the outside WR,improve the redzone scoring potential and drag that safety out the box to relieve some pressure on the run game. guys i personally like for that would njoku,engram and shaheen
hankins loss pushes the need at DT up to anywhere between 2-4 rounds,a deep CB class and the continued mutterings about DRC means i can see CB being addressed earlier than many fans think as well round 3 maybe def before the 6th
i would like blount but smith towards the end of the draft looks like a good alternative also,ideally sign blount and draft smith starter and develop the future starter there as well