look like?
| The easiest starting point may be to just look back at life before 1990—a time of landline telephones, 9-to-5 work schedules, and VHS-rental stores. But that historical reality doesn’t really answer the question, because in an alternate history, we wouldn’t have known what we were missing. “The Internet has so permeated our lives that its influence is becoming impossible to see,” says the philosopher Clay Shirky. “Imagining today minus the Net is as content-free an exercise as imagining London in the 1840s with no steam power, New York in the 1930s with no elevators, or L.A. in the 1970s with no cars. After a while, the trellis so shapes the vine that you can’t separate the two.” |
Ultimately, do you think society would be better or worse off, and why?
Link - (
New Window )
on the flip side it has made life convenient, allowed us to connect with others we might not otherwise connect with, allows injustices to be brought to light, and allows us more insight into the world.
Whatever the negative effects, that fact that we have developed a society capable of creating something like the internet is testament to incredible progress. No one would ever give that up for anything.
and I say people, not meaning me of course.
The beauty of it all is if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to use it.
I'm in my early 20s and yes I'm probably an anomaly with how little I use social media platforms, but I feel like most of my friends are somewhat similar. My dad uses Facebook more than me. I just use FB as a way to keep up with everyones birthdays. Twitter I don't even have under my own name, I'll use it to track breaking news stories .
Snapchat is probably the predominant form of social media among my age group, but it boggles my mind how anyone would get upset about that since it's not as "social" as other platforms (it's more intimate but among a closer, inner circle of friends, unlike how you "friend" practically everybody on FB).
Just my two cents.
I would never go back.
:)
Just commenting on this point, alone....
I'm not sure if I like football any more now because of the internet. In fact, I may like it less. Fantasy Football, advanced metrics, mock drafts, 24/7 draft coverage, just 24/7 coverage in general, and constant influx of opinion both talking head and fan, too much information in general.... These things have actually turned me off to the game a bit.
I have kids right now, 5 and 2. The Ipad is like crack to them, almost in a scary way in that they lose their sh-t if we take it away. We use it in extreme moderation, always under supervision, and never at social functions of any sort or at the dinner table.
A couple of weeks ago we went out to dinner. It was a Friday night and there was a table with about 3 or 4 couples seated at one end, and all of their children at the other. Probably about six or seven kids total, age range about 6-10. I kid you not when I tell you that each kid had their own screen of some sort, phone, tablet, etc.... and sat in complete silence with headphones on for the entire hour duration of dinner. Dead silence, never looked up from their screens, never spoke, never even looked at each other while their parents socialized.
Just struck me funny because when I was a kid, if I was getting a chance to go out to dinner with all of my friends on a Friday night not in a school enviroment or whatever, which was a treat, we would have been out of control.
Now that may be a good thing for the parents, to have that virtual babysitter, but it's just weird, to me, to see a group of kids out on the town and wanting nothing to do with each other. Save the ipad for home when you're by yourself, you know?
Think about the servicemen in past wars where their wives and parents would wait days or weeks or whatever for a letter. Always nervous, always afraid, not knowing what was going on and whether their loved one was safe. Maybe sometimes, the first word they got was a couple uniformed guys ringing their doorbells.
What a huge difference and I can only surmise relief in just being able to have frequent contact. And it likely works the other way too where the soldier knows people are thinking about him and can lift him up when he gets down. (I say he, but insert she as well).
and I say people, not meaning me of course.
For porn
I have a fast connection, so I don't have to wait...
For porn
I browse all day and night...
For porn...
Think about the servicemen in past wars where their wives and parents would wait days or weeks or whatever for a letter. Always nervous, always afraid, not knowing what was going on and whether their loved one was safe. Maybe sometimes, the first word they got was a couple uniformed guys ringing their doorbells.
What a huge difference and I can only surmise relief in just being able to have frequent contact. And it likely works the other way too where the soldier knows people are thinking about him and can lift him up when he gets down. (I say he, but insert she as well).
There are clearly many positives. I wonder if the same technology could be employed without the internet, though.
- have to go to the bank live
- use my phone for international calls
- go to stores to buy things
- etc, etc.
Oh the horror.
:)
Wouldn't actually be a bad idea. Force people to get off the screen and talk to each other on the weekends.
But we just didn't know what the internet would was going to be a couple of decades later back then. So it was different.
Going back to a world like that now, knowing what we know, would be a much different experience.
The internet is way more useful than not. Technology has simplified so many aspects of living - but in turn, has also made a lot of things more complex. It's a double-edged sword.
I always wonder what my adult life would be like in a world where I didn't always know what everyone else was doing because of the internet. A world where I actually had to see people in person and talk to them to find out what they've been up to, etc.
It's an interesting subject - I actually think about it often.
Sort of a hybrid of the good things about pre-internet (social) and combining all of the technological advances of the post-internet era (medical, professional, science) of society.
On the surface, most people probably just think "yeah, I could live without Facebook.. easy!" But it goes so, so far beyond that.
Sure, we'd all be able to live without it - people did it for hundreds of years. But when all is said and done, I'd prefer the internet world to one completely devoid of it.
On the surface, most people probably just think "yeah, I could live without Facebook.. easy!" But it goes so, so far beyond that.
Sure, we'd all be able to live without it - people did it for hundreds of years. But when all is said and done, I'd prefer the internet world to one completely devoid of it.
I think that's my main question, though. I wonder if all of the conveniences could continue with non-internet technology? It's not like we would return to pre-1994 tech.
Leave the technology at home or work. Force people to interact with the world and each other when not at home or work.
It was really nice. But I commented that within 5 minutes at the table, I had already thought to reach for my phone for one reason or another - mainly to take a pic or two of the cool decor in the place.
It's really astounding how connected to the phone (and thus, the Internet) I find myself.
Need more self-imposed days/evenings where I shut it off and leave it somewhere in the house where I don't feel tempted to look at it.
I think his point was that as a society, we have become as reliant on the internet as those other places and eras that he states were reliant on the innovations that he cited for each one.
It's not so much what would it look like if it never happened, which is what you're referring to, but more so what would it look like if it went away.
Be mindful that we are now a generation or two deep of people who don't know what life is like without it.
Let's see ... we rode bikes ... played softball, baseball, whiffleball, football, basketball, kickball ... fished in the river, swam there and in the local creek ... hiked through wooded areas ... played Army and cops & robbers (on foot and on bikes) ... watched a little TV but not much (because there wasn't a hell of a lot on during the days other than soaps) ... and when the sun went down, it was time for neighborhood hide & seek, manhunt, and/or some other variation, until the Moms all started yelling to come in.
My kids also stare at me funny when they complain about food options in the house and I mention I'd eat 5-6 bowls of Corn Flakes or Wheaties a day on summer vaca. lol
We didn't KNOW we were bored!
Quote:
I think almost everyone's life would drastically change. People don't realize how many things they use/do rely on the internet.
On the surface, most people probably just think "yeah, I could live without Facebook.. easy!" But it goes so, so far beyond that.
Sure, we'd all be able to live without it - people did it for hundreds of years. But when all is said and done, I'd prefer the internet world to one completely devoid of it.
I think that's my main question, though. I wonder if all of the conveniences could continue with non-internet technology? It's not like we would return to pre-1994 tech.
I think a good deal of them would have to cease - there are a lot of internet-reliant conveniences that I don't think have any viable operating alternative. No internet would mean a lot of those things would be gone.
it would be different.
I grew up in an age without it. Was I happier or less happy than kids today? Was my life more or less meaningful?
Quote:
in terms of cyberbullying, hacking, etc., to say the world would be a better place without the Internet is to pine for the days of insular communities and stagnation of ideas. Far far more benefits came about with the advent of the Internet than cost.
Nonsense. Some of you are too young to remember pre-Internet. People got together at clubs, taverns, meetings, pubs, house parties, phone calls. There was plenty of idea exchange, and people were actually less insular because you had to actually talk to people instead of e-mailing.
Eh...communities of interest were formed based on proximity more than anything else, which usually led to echo chambers forming more than anything else with regards to ideas (especially those unpopular ideas that went against the norm of the community). And many communities without much access to the Internet remain insular to this day. The fact that we can have people from across the country and the globe be part of a large social community based on shared common interests makes the Internet a game changer (even with its own ability to form echo chamber realms).
Was this necessary?
I share it on BBI sometimes because there might be parents out there interested in the inner workings of what's going on in their kids school. Everybody wants inside information on everything else, why not Education?
In the spirit of the thread, though, I certainly would not bat an eye about not posting about education on BBI again.
It has shrunk the world and created a global culture shock in many ways.
It came along at a time when the world still had not recovered from the previous global culture shock that came with things like railroads, steam ships, telegraph, industrial revolution. That shit lead to WWI & WWII.
I'm not sure the stupidest people on the planet need a tool at their finger tips where they can find their worst thinking reinforced a hundred times over a day and also see examples of things they hate the most a hundred times over a day.
Quote:
who you would bitch to about your shitty students or crumbling American education system? It's easier to vent to strangers than to your significant other sometimes.
Was this necessary?
I laughed. Don't get mad Britt, it's what you do.
please tell me this is in jest.
please tell me this is in jest.
Do you think the magnitude of those wars would have been the same without mass manufacturing, shipping, communication, the air plane, combustion engines, ect.?
Quote:
there would be no BBI, "Inside Football" would go back to the days of being a cheesy newsletter, draft coverage would be what you could get off ESPN and NFL Network, there would be no Asshats, and this thread would not exist.
Just commenting on this point, alone....
I'm not sure if I like football any more now because of the internet. In fact, I may like it less. Fantasy Football, advanced metrics, mock drafts, 24/7 draft coverage, just 24/7 coverage in general, and constant influx of opinion both talking head and fan, too much information in general.... These things have actually turned me off to the game a bit.
The internet could make most schools obsolete and really should. In the past you needed books and a teacher but you can learn about all of history just on the internet and you can read endless content.
Having messenger apps helps keep in convenient contact with friends. I never see my friends and aside from one would not be wasting my time talking to them on the phone, not enough time
The huge downside is the ugly parts of human nature in internet shaming/pitchfork mobs. Seeing people's lives ruined for such simple throwaway comments is very upsetting as is cyber bullying via cyberbullying.
Along with shaming there's also revenge porn and hacking. Hacking and identity theft are a problem too.
Quote:
who you would bitch to about your shitty students or crumbling American education system? It's easier to vent to strangers than to your significant other sometimes.
Was this necessary?
Lighten up, it was a damn joke at your expense.
I'll tell you one thing that the Internet will always be terrible at. It's ability to convey sarcasm and joke.
Moving on.
Now we have to see every ex-boyfriend our girlfriend has been with unless she has the class to delete all of that but most do not.
Moving on.
I honestly cannot remember our last interaction, so I'll take your word for it. And since that's the interaction we had last, I apologize that you were given an impression that I was taking a personal shot at you. I was merely going after the low hanging fruit with comic material.
Sorry, man.
we were well over the culture shock of the iron horse (railroad for you young'uns) by the time Gore invented the internet. We were well over the bullshit of culture shock as a concept by the time AOL offered service.
we were well over the culture shock of the iron horse (railroad for you young'uns) by the time Gore invented the internet. We were well over the bullshit of culture shock as a concept by the time AOL offered service.
I think you might have misunderstood me a bit. I meant ramifications of WWII were still being felt and impacting societies all over the globe when the internet came along.
Of course there are downsides. There almost always are. Like almost anyone, my attention span is probably shorter than it should be as I've become accustomed to getting exactly what I want instantly, and can immediately switch to something else on whim. I fall down rabbit holes and waste too much time, whether it be here or Wikipedia or reddit or whatever. And, again, I agree that Twitter and Facebook mostly suck ass (although Facebook is useful for a few things). I wouldn't trade everything we've gained to get rid of those relatively minor annoyances.
Think about the amount of time that was wasted channel surfing alone. Before it was, "Let's see what's on TV". Now it's "Let's watch a couple episodes of Breaking Bad."
Immeasurably better.
I simply avoid social media and the people that have made the world worse over the same period of time by being given a platform and a voice almost the entire planet can hear. If you're investing in Facebook or similar, or Tinder or similar, you're likely making your life much harder, in my experience.
I like not knowing every detail about everyone else's life. I have things to talk to them about when I do see them.
There are a few small downsides - I always used to rely on it as a bit of a "social calendar" and it was an easy way to keep track of birthdays, events, etc... but I can live without that.
Quote:
in terms of cyberbullying, hacking, etc., to say the world would be a better place without the Internet is to pine for the days of insular communities and stagnation of ideas. Far far more benefits came about with the advent of the Internet than cost.
Nonsense. Some of you are too young to remember pre-Internet. People got together at clubs, taverns, meetings, pubs, house parties, phone calls. There was plenty of idea exchange, and people were actually less insular because you had to actually talk to people instead of e-mailing.
It's such a shame that the Internet has stopped people from going to pubs and taverns.
woke up. kissed my baybay (not sure if she was talking about her baby daddy or her baby). ate a bowl of cornflakes (so boring without sugar). took a dump. a satisfying dump, not one of those got to strain really hard after getting too dehydrated drinking all night dumps. back to bed for a nap.
I swore then that facebook might not be for me. I may be missing out on things, but overall, not having to hear about every day mundane details probably evens it out.
The pros outweigh the cons. We just need to figure out how to govern things better. Right now we live in an era that will one day be looked upon as the Wild West. It won't last forever. That watershed moment, be it some huge security breach or cyber attack is coming. It's only a matter of time.
I like not knowing every detail about everyone else's life. I have things to talk to them about when I do see them.
There are a few small downsides - I always used to rely on it as a bit of a "social calendar" and it was an easy way to keep track of birthdays, events, etc... but I can live without that.
I dropped facebook about a year and a half ago. I don't miss it one bit. My internet use has been way down in general recently (including here). I just don't find posting (here or anywhere else) to be as much fun as it was a decade or so ago.
Quote:
Yeah, I found that getting rid of Facebook made things much better in general. I have plenty of people that I text/speak to/see regularly - those are the people who matter in my life. Getting rid of Facebook is how you figure out how many of the 500+ friends you have are actually friends or just people you say hi to when you run into them.
I like not knowing every detail about everyone else's life. I have things to talk to them about when I do see them.
There are a few small downsides - I always used to rely on it as a bit of a "social calendar" and it was an easy way to keep track of birthdays, events, etc... but I can live without that.
I dropped facebook about a year and a half ago. I don't miss it one bit. My internet use has been way down in general recently (including here). I just don't find posting (here or anywhere else) to be as much fun as it was a decade or so ago.
Yeah, in some ways the novelty just wears off after a while.
I find that the less distracting social media/internet outlets I stay connected to, the more I focus on more important things.
When I used to have Facebook, it just turned into a habit to pop open the app and start scrolling through it any time I had a free few minutes. I was staring at my phone too much and not paying enough attention to the things that were actually around me in the real world.
People spend insane amounts of time on Facebook, Twitter, etc.. just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. It just never ends. It gets exhausting, but the more you immerse yourself, the more the notifications come, and the more you continue to check and respond and post. It's just a vicious cycle.
I've felt much more refreshed without most of that stuff.
then there's the knowledge aspect. absolutely, the net can be a source of easy access to knowledge. but there are just as many people wearing tin foil hats, or denying evolution, as ever. what good is access to knowledge if people don't avail themselves of it, don't know what to do with it, or if it just makes it easier for people to scam you with false (or less than quality) knowledge? I read it on the internet, therefore it must be true, is a joke for a reason.
I really like on demand all wheel drive on my car. but I did just fine with having to get out and lock the hubs manually, too.
I enjoy the internet for a lot of reasons. But, it would be a mistake to ascribe too much of a sentimentality of can't live without it.
Once upon a time there were cellphones that didn't have interenet.
True story.
Oh no, you can't bank online. You actually have to go into a bank and establish a face-to-face relationship with a banker. And who knows who you might bump into in line.
Repeat this with every errand you run. You meet people. Talk. Establish community.
Instead, we're all plugged in hermits who can't look eachother in the eye. And yes it's particularly bad with the kids coming up now. Not far off the Matrix.
According to Merriam-Webster:
: forms of electronic communication (such as websites for social networking and microblogging) through which users create online communities to share information, ideas, personal messages, and other content (such as videos)
Different form, same shit. Just saying.
Oh no, you can't bank online. You actually have to go into a bank and establish a face-to-face relationship with a banker. And who knows who you might bump into in line.
Repeat this with every errand you run. You meet people. Talk. Establish community.
Instead, we're all plugged in hermits who can't look eachother in the eye. And yes it's particularly bad with the kids coming up now. Not far off the Matrix.
Yeah, it was so much better when the bank closed at 4pm on Friday and you were locked out of banking until Monday morning, because you got to have meaningless small talk with other people waiting in line.
(You can still do that now, by the way.)
Quote:
without the internet.
Oh no, you can't bank online. You actually have to go into a bank and establish a face-to-face relationship with a banker. And who knows who you might bump into in line.
Repeat this with every errand you run. You meet people. Talk. Establish community.
Instead, we're all plugged in hermits who can't look eachother in the eye. And yes it's particularly bad with the kids coming up now. Not far off the Matrix.
Yeah, it was so much better when the bank closed at 4pm on Friday and you were locked out of banking until Monday morning, because you got to have meaningless small talk with other people waiting in line.
(You can still do that now, by the way.)
Shhhh...you hermit!
And would someone please think of the children!?!
Oh no, you can't bank online. You actually have to go into a bank and establish a face-to-face relationship with a banker. And who knows who you might bump into in line.
Repeat this with every errand you run. You meet people. Talk. Establish community.
Instead, we're all plugged in hermits who can't look eachother in the eye. And yes it's particularly bad with the kids coming up now. Not far off the Matrix.
I have no problem with going into the bank, except that I'd rather do my banking online and use my time to do other things. IMO there are way more conveniences born out of the internet, that outweigh the negatives. We're saving time, and money. For the most part, a lot of things are way more transparent and accessible than they were before.
No doubt...and the lack of self awareness displayed by some in this circle jerk session (like so many others on BBI) is what I'm trying to highlight with my comment more so than that there are both positives and negatives with regards to the Internet (which no one is disagreeing on).
As I said originally, things are different. there's no denying that some things are obviously easier (such as at the DMV), but better vs worse is completely judgment. I find it better to text kids to get off my lawn. others find it better to be able to yell at them in person.
It's a mixed blessing with the final determination yet to be made:
* You can get information quicker. You can also get inaccurate information quicker.
* Wider communication. But also much more of what I believe is called "silo-ing", you only communicate with a wider group of like minded people, shutting out opposing views.
* Easy search. But sometimes I found really great information NOT using key words that I would have missed.