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In round 1. I honestly understand the need to add an OT but why do I feel that this guy is not right for us in round 1? I want our 1st rounder to come in and start right away. Will he be able to unset Flowers? His drug use and age and Dave Te's opinion make me feel like this will be a back pick.
I like Sy 56 top OT of McDermott I round 3 better.
on Bolles....after sleeping on it I'm warming up to this.
2. GARETT BOLLES, Utah (6-5, 299, 4.98, 1): Will turn 25 next month after a troubled past in which he was kicked out of five schools and arrested for vandalizing a rival school’s field. “You name it, I’ve done it,” Bolles told kutv.com, adding that he was headed “down the wrong path to prison.” A married couple became his guardians, and his life began to turn around. Played two seasons in junior college and one for the Utes before declaring a year early. “Tough past,” said one scout. “One-year player. Very athletic. You like the up side. Concerned about the package.” Added another scout: “Tell me how many guys have been first round that are 25 or older? I’ll say this. Teams that have spent time with him, he gets football. Loves it. He’ll give you every ounce of soul, that kid.” Scored 9 on the Wonderlic, leading to questions whether he can retain an NFL system and make rapid pre-snap adjustments. “He saw the light,” said a third scout. “He’s got great feet and range. He’s aggressive and tenacious.” From Lehi, Utah. Married, couple has a son. “Really athletic and tough … he’s the most talented of all of them (tackles),” a fourth scout said. “He’s got to get stronger. That’s his weak point. Plays hard. You wish he was 21 or 22.”
think it will be Bolles. I'm OK with the pick, because of his feet, and nastiness. But I'd much rather have an edge rusher like Bowser, or trade down. I don't want Reese trading up for Bolles. It would be too expensive.
I can't criticize the idea of taking Bolles enough when you have better players, better talent, with better character.
I pray to the heavens this is smoke to get someone to reach earlier for him.
I don't know how a GM nor a scout could say "yeah, this 25 yr old guy with limited college play, and major character concerns, and concerns about ability to adapt and pick up the nuts and bolts of the mental side of the game. He's our guy.
This would easily be the worst 1st round pick by Reese and Ross if they go through with it.
I think the character concerns are actually a positive with Bolles. It's a great story, he came from rock bottom and turned his life around, his married with a son now. Don't think teams would consider him a 1st round prospect if they thought those issues weren't behind him.
RE: The beat reporters pretty much stand for the Â
Did any beat writer mention Apple as a possibility last year? IIRC, most had the top two targets as Conklin and Floyd. If those two really were at the top of the Giants board, I would hope the front office learned from last year and is more tight lipped.
would be around BPA for 23, he's considered in the 17-30 range. They might not consider Lamp high because they don't view him as a tackle, strictly a guard.
I think the character concerns are actually a positive with Bolles. It's a great story, he came from rock bottom and turned his life around, his married with a son now. Don't think teams would consider him a 1st round prospect if they thought those issues weren't behind him.
Teams only look at recent history and forget the longer track record or not the other big picture. You have to worry once he gets his guaranteed contract, does he slip? He's not a young guy. This is a risky pick. He's not a guy who I've seen or heard from football people, can move inside to Guard. Above the norm risk. I would root hard for him but I'm not the least bit supportive of drafting him.
I'm with you, originally I was just eh on Bolles, didn't see it. But the more you read and watch, dude is a freak athletically and can really move. Best feet and it's not even close. Watch his USC clips...he was dominating out there.
Bolles immediately starting at RT, and I think his game might translate better to that side anyway, as he's more of nasty mauler more than anything. Him swinging out for running blocks on the right side would be something we haven't seen in years. But if he beats Flowers out at LT...so be it.
Is coming in and playing up to a high level. It's rare even for Guards to come in and dominate. Any OL you take is a 1-2 yr development process. Bolles is already 25. If OL is such an issue that we have to force a pick and pray he can play lights out right away, we are not a SB contender and Reese has failed in his job in regards to solidifying the offensive line to allow one more run.
DT or DE. Not sure who. If not DL, then one of the CBs or S Â
fall through and they grab. JPP had 4 thing cleaned up in that surgery. OV played almost every down last year. Hankins is gone. THey need help up front.
DRC always has nagging injuries and is a year older. A CB would also make alot of sense. Or one of the stud Ss if they fall to them.
Have struggled playing in NFL right away because of the speed and power echelon in the players at the NFL. Also a lot of these OL play in offenses that don't fit to the NFL style of offense. Outside of a couple OL who played in offenses that were more balanced and equally emphasized pass protection, look at the OL and how many flame out or struggle their first few years.
Have struggled playing in NFL right away because of the speed and power echelon in the players at the NFL. Also a lot of these OL play in offenses that don't fit to the NFL style of offense. Outside of a couple OL who played in offenses that were more balanced and equally emphasized pass protection, look at the OL and how many flame out or struggle their first few years.
That's why I'd probably not go Oline first round. Too many other needs who could contribute right away. This is a poor oline draft, and it's likely that at best any player who comes in may only do so at guard.
How many 290# RT's are out there? Has the movement skills and AA no doubt. At the next level he'll be a liability in the running game unless he can add 20# of muscle. Wonderlic of 9? 25 years old? This is the Giants pick? I hope not.
And I don't get all the Bolles chatter. If you're taking a 25 year old with a checkered past in the first round, he'd better be a damned sight better than Bolles is.
Just getting a bad vibe about this draft based off of the media chatter.
I wouldn't necessarily love the pick. But OL is a pretty big need and Bolles is considered the 1st or 2nd best one of the class by most scouts. At pick 23, we aren't getting many sure things anyway.
For the Giants it makes sense. They likely see Cam/Lamp as Guards, and are scared off of Ram's injury history. If you buy the Giants saying Fluker is coming here as a Guard then this makes sense. Bolles is the best pure tackle in the draft and could step in at RT and battle for the LT job.
He will put on weight, all players do. Pugh was lighter too. I also don't get the 25 yr old argument. So what, since when does 25 make you old. He can still put on 10-15 pounds. The guy is athletic, has good height and size, and is mean.
Also all reports I have read have these 4 guys slated for the late first, which is where we pick, so I don't see how you an say the value isn't there. Unless someone really slides down, these guys represent the "proper" value for us at 23.
Danny Watkins comparisons. Watkins was a guard and not nearly close to the athlete Bolles is. And Bolles is a tackle. Are we using Watkins because he was old and was a bust?
I really like Lamp as well...but I just don't ever see Reese taking a guard (they thought Pugh would be a tackle) in the first round of a draft. He simply values the premier positions more, and I can't blame him. If you could guarantee that Lamp is Zack Martin then you do it...but it's never a guarantee.
Danny Watkins comparisons. Watkins was a guard and not nearly close to the athlete Bolles is. And Bolles is a tackle. Are we using Watkins because he was old and was a bust?
That's why I was comparing them because of the age not because of the skill level or position. Bolles was playing against kids 3-5 years younger than him and now he is going to be playing against grown men. What I meant was the risk is very high with Bolles and he still has a lot of work to do to before he is a finished product.
the thing with Watkins: he really didn't want to play football, he wanted to be a fireman and that's why he ended up not being a player, his heart wasn't in it. Say what you want about Bolles but folks are saying he loves the game.
I really like Lamp as well...but I just don't ever see Reese taking a guard (they thought Pugh would be a tackle) in the first round of a draft. He simply values the premier positions more, and I can't blame him. If you could guarantee that Lamp is Zack Martin then you do it...but it's never a guarantee.
I agree with everything you said and I was not advocating taking an OL in round 1. I would rather take Davis, Bowser, Charlton, Willis, and even Wormley instead of Bolles.
based on the way the draft falls of course, is the Giants will go OL and DL in rounds 1 and 2, in either order. So, that could mean they go Watt/Bowser in round 1 and then someone like Dawkins or Moton in round 2....OR Bolles/Ramcyzk round 1, Walker/Wormley/Anderson round 2.
We ask that posters be more judicious in starting new threads. Moderators will start new discussion threads for each round (to discuss picks for all teams) and before and after the Giants pick in each round. Most of the comments should go in these threads when the draft is being held tonight, tomorrow night, and Saturday (starting new threads when the draft is not being held on these three days is fine).
It's also fine to start new threads with breaking news, rumors, or other juicy information.
The reason we ask this is so it is easier for EVERYONE to sort through the chaos and find the best info.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Also be aware that because of the high traffic numbers on these days, the server in the past has gotten stressed. Hopefully that doesn't happen this year but it will get slower when the Giants pick, especially tonight and tomorrow night.
I like Sy 56 top OT of McDermott I round 3 better.
2. GARETT BOLLES, Utah (6-5, 299, 4.98, 1): Will turn 25 next month after a troubled past in which he was kicked out of five schools and arrested for vandalizing a rival school’s field. “You name it, I’ve done it,” Bolles told kutv.com, adding that he was headed “down the wrong path to prison.” A married couple became his guardians, and his life began to turn around. Played two seasons in junior college and one for the Utes before declaring a year early. “Tough past,” said one scout. “One-year player. Very athletic. You like the up side. Concerned about the package.” Added another scout: “Tell me how many guys have been first round that are 25 or older? I’ll say this. Teams that have spent time with him, he gets football. Loves it. He’ll give you every ounce of soul, that kid.” Scored 9 on the Wonderlic, leading to questions whether he can retain an NFL system and make rapid pre-snap adjustments. “He saw the light,” said a third scout. “He’s got great feet and range. He’s aggressive and tenacious.” From Lehi, Utah. Married, couple has a son. “Really athletic and tough … he’s the most talented of all of them (tackles),” a fourth scout said. “He’s got to get stronger. That’s his weak point. Plays hard. You wish he was 21 or 22.”
I pray to the heavens this is smoke to get someone to reach earlier for him.
I don't know how a GM nor a scout could say "yeah, this 25 yr old guy with limited college play, and major character concerns, and concerns about ability to adapt and pick up the nuts and bolts of the mental side of the game. He's our guy.
This would easily be the worst 1st round pick by Reese and Ross if they go through with it.
Forrest Lamp would be fine. Versatile. Could play RT or both G positions. Mayocks favorite player of the draft.
Did any beat writer mention Apple as a possibility last year? IIRC, most had the top two targets as Conklin and Floyd. If those two really were at the top of the Giants board, I would hope the front office learned from last year and is more tight lipped.
Teams only look at recent history and forget the longer track record or not the other big picture. You have to worry once he gets his guaranteed contract, does he slip? He's not a young guy. This is a risky pick. He's not a guy who I've seen or heard from football people, can move inside to Guard. Above the norm risk. I would root hard for him but I'm not the least bit supportive of drafting him.
It would be a mistake to force a choice on the OL imo.
Make it happen Jerry.
Yes, he is. All the scouting reports and film will tell you that. He's not a finesse tackle.
It would be a mistake to force a choice on the OL imo.
Make it happen Jerry.
D or TE
DRC always has nagging injuries and is a year older. A CB would also make alot of sense. Or one of the stud Ss if they fall to them.
That's why I'd probably not go Oline first round. Too many other needs who could contribute right away. This is a poor oline draft, and it's likely that at best any player who comes in may only do so at guard.
Just getting a bad vibe about this draft based off of the media chatter.
Agreed he is going to be Danny Watkins 2.0
He will put on weight, all players do. Pugh was lighter too. I also don't get the 25 yr old argument. So what, since when does 25 make you old. He can still put on 10-15 pounds. The guy is athletic, has good height and size, and is mean.
Also all reports I have read have these 4 guys slated for the late first, which is where we pick, so I don't see how you an say the value isn't there. Unless someone really slides down, these guys represent the "proper" value for us at 23.
Only because OT is a weak position this year. Most years he'd be a second or third rounder.
That's why I was comparing them because of the age not because of the skill level or position. Bolles was playing against kids 3-5 years younger than him and now he is going to be playing against grown men. What I meant was the risk is very high with Bolles and he still has a lot of work to do to before he is a finished product.
I agree with everything you said and I was not advocating taking an OL in round 1. I would rather take Davis, Bowser, Charlton, Willis, and even Wormley instead of Bolles.
Could they take an OL later on? Sure and they probably will.
At #23 I will be stunned if it's not an offensive playmaker, CB or pass rusher.