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NFT: Knicks Chat: Woj suggests Griffin for Melo

DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 10:27 am
Essentially his premise is on the Clippers side they would avoid committing 5 years to Griffin vs. "2" to Melo and the Knicks would have a dynamic duo with Griffin/KP
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You keep them together because  
KWALL2 : 4/27/2017 11:49 am : link
simply breaking them up makes no sense. It may work if you get value back. Melo is not value.

Injuries in playoffs have been a factor. Griffin's toe this year? Is it a freak thing or is the guy prone to injuries like that? I'd go with freak injury. Keep them together and build from there.
RE: Clippers 2nd unit  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13444827 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
could use help. If they picked up Joe Johnson it would have been the difference.

Whey not keep Paul, Griffin, and Jordan together? Then try and find better complimentary players. Get the right help and you can win a title with those 3.

That plan seems like a better shot at winning then breaking them up especially if it means bringing in a player like Melo. That to me isn't an option for them. It would be a terrible move. Melo is at the end of the line. It would be a step back.


They have ZERO cap space and no draft picks, they can not improve that team...
If I was going to drop one of the 3.  
KWALL2 : 4/27/2017 11:50 am : link
it would be Paul. I'd keep Griffin over Paul right now.
James Herberg  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 11:52 am : link
put together a list of "intriguing" FA options, some that stand out

Joe Ingles (though he's already 29)

Potential Tyler Johnsons
Tyler Johnson got a $50 million offer sheet last summer, stunning casual fans who weren't familiar with the up-and-coming combo guard's work as a Heat reserve.
Justin Holiday, Knicks: He averaged only 20 minutes for a 31-win team, so a bidding war for his services would probably shock people. Plenty of teams could use his perimeter defense, though, and his 35.5 percent 3-point shooting is just good enough that one of them could make a bet on coaching him up to 40 percent.

JaMychal Green, Grizzlies (restricted): Did you know he shot 50.1 percent and 38.2 percent from deep this season? Green's range was crucial in giving Mike Conley space to make plays, and his versatile defense kept Memphis connected. He's far from a household name, but he's the kind of role player that helps in a number of ways and takes very little off the table.

Tony Snell, Bucks: I thought about putting him in the "playoff heroes" category because of how well he has played against the Raptors -- in the first five games of the series, he has defended DeMar DeRozan admirably while averaging 11.6 points on 52.5 percent shooting, including 53.3 percent from deep. In a much bigger role than he ever had with the Bulls, Snell had a true shooting percentage of 60.3 percent with the Bucks in the regular season. Again, everybody wants 3-and-D guys like him.


and then there is this...

Derrick Rose, Knicks: It seems nuts that New York would even consider bringing Rose back, but president Phil Jackson did not exactly close the door on that possibility when meeting with the media at the end of the season. Rose proved with the Knicks that he has some explosion left and can get into the paint better than most players at his position, but his game has serious limitations, especially on the defensive end. Nobody knows what his market will look like.
Tyler Johnson  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 11:58 am : link
Isn't a FA is he?? I though he signed a 4 year deal no?
RE: Tyler Johnson  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13444851 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Isn't a FA is he?? I though he signed a 4 year deal no?


He's talking about guys who will get "Tyler Johnson" deals.
Ingles is a guy who makes winning plays  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 12:00 pm : link
age is a bit disappointing for the Knicks timeline.

Snell is intriguing. Thought he would be better in the nba but looks like a prototypical 3 and D wing.
RE: RE: rich  
Enzo : 4/27/2017 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13444831 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 13444807 Deej said:


Quote:


the problem with that trade is that the Celts can just sign Blake outright if he opts out.



True, but it might be in Griffin's interests to allow himself to be dealt to the Knicks, then opt-out and do a sign and trade deal to the team of his choice. Keep in mind that the Clips 1) might not be keen on sending him to a competitive team and 2) might not be willing to do a sign-and-trade deal.

By doing the sign and trade route, Griffin gets extra cash and possibly an extra year.

you don't get extra money or extra years via sign-and-trade anymore.
things could get really  
Enzo : 4/27/2017 12:09 pm : link
interesting for the Clips if Paul and Blake just decide to leave and sign elsewhere. If that happens, does Doc just decide to go somewhere else too? Do they trade DJ and go for a full rebuild?
RE: things could get really  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13444879 Enzo said:
Quote:
interesting for the Clips if Paul and Blake just decide to leave and sign elsewhere. If that happens, does Doc just decide to go somewhere else too? Do they trade DJ and go for a full rebuild?


if that happens they are screwed, no draft picks
RE: RE: things could get really  
Enzo : 4/27/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13444915 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13444879 Enzo said:


Quote:


interesting for the Clips if Paul and Blake just decide to leave and sign elsewhere. If that happens, does Doc just decide to go somewhere else too? Do they trade DJ and go for a full rebuild?



if that happens they are screwed, no draft picks

slightly more complicated than that. They don't have a pick in June, but it will be in the 20s. And then the next one they owe is heavily protected and eventually converts to a #2 if not conveyed. Bottom line, they can tank if they want to.
they dont have a pick in 2017 or 2019  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 12:46 pm : link
and they have zero 2md round picks...

how can they tank?
RE: they dont have a pick in 2017 or 2019  
Enzo : 4/27/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13444926 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and they have zero 2md round picks...

how can they tank?

maybe read what I wrote again? Tanking will obviously not impact the 2017 pick because it's already in the 20s. And if the 2019 picks is in lottery, they keep it. If it's in the lottery in 2020, they keep it.
Boston  
MotownGIANTS : 4/27/2017 12:52 pm : link
Is not going to commit max money for an oft injured player and Melo is not a fit he is not the playmaker he once was can score but is a volume shoooter. Plus he is not going defend like we want. We need a rebounder and post presence. 6ers have to move a big that's where our deal is coming from and trying to get heyward. Also Brown will be even better next season .... his chance in the playoffs has not come yet. The pick this year will be fultz or josh Jackson unless someone comes with a mega offer. If Bradley and smart could just be more consistent with their shot. The pick would be josh Jackson no doubt.
RE: RE: they dont have a pick in 2017 or 2019  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13444931 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13444926 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


and they have zero 2md round picks...

how can they tank?


maybe read what I wrote again? Tanking will obviously not impact the 2017 pick because it's already in the 20s. And if the 2019 picks is in lottery, they keep it. If it's in the lottery in 2020, they keep it.


yeah i re read it, my mistake..
RE: Boston  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 1:08 pm : link
In comment 13444937 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
Is not going to commit max money for an oft injured player and Melo is not a fit he is not the playmaker he once was can score but is a volume shoooter. Plus he is not going defend like we want. We need a rebounder and post presence. 6ers have to move a big that's where our deal is coming from and trying to get heyward. Also Brown will be even better next season .... his chance in the playoffs has not come yet. The pick this year will be fultz or josh Jackson unless someone comes with a mega offer. If Bradley and smart could just be more consistent with their shot. The pick would be josh Jackson no doubt.


I can guarantee Boston will not have a chance at Hayward. He's staying in Utah, you can book that.
Ainge is not going to wait for a draft pick to develop  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 1:11 pm : link
they are an older win now team, guarantee he trades for a superstar...

Yeah I agree about Hayward.  
bceagle05 : 4/27/2017 1:16 pm : link
I was worried about the Stevens/Hayward/Butler thing, but Utah has a good thing going and he's gonna get a huge deal from them.
RE: Yeah I agree about Hayward.  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13444969 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I was worried about the Stevens/Hayward/Butler thing, but Utah has a good thing going and he's gonna get a huge deal from them.


utah has a good young core he can grow with, he is not leaving that..
I'm not "plugged" in like  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 1:22 pm : link
some here in BBI are, but the Hayward situation is one thing (and maybe the only thing ever) I can speak to.
Utah  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 1:30 pm : link
is in awesome shape. Nice young roster, 2 young studs in Hayward and Gobert, Exum/Lyles haven't been very good but they are still only 21 with talent, Favors,Hood, presumably they will keep Hill and Ingles and then they have 2 firsts this year (granted 1 is the warriors, 2 2nds this year, + 2 firsts next year (theirs and OKC)
Rose barely talks lol  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 1:41 pm : link
“[Carmelo Anthony] off the court is calm. There are rare moments when he heats up about something, [Derrick] Rose is quiet, he barely talks. So Noah was the guy who tried to talk, tried to help and spoke to coaches, too. But even he could not influence the wrong decisions we made. It was difficult. But Joakim is the guy – he maybe did not play at the level we all wanted, but he could say loud things others did not want to say.’’
RE: Rose barely talks lol  
Deej : 4/27/2017 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13445025 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
“[Carmelo Anthony] off the court is calm. There are rare moments when he heats up about something, [Derrick] Rose is quiet, he barely talks. So Noah was the guy who tried to talk, tried to help and spoke to coaches, too. But even he could not influence the wrong decisions we made. It was difficult. But Joakim is the guy – he maybe did not play at the level we all wanted, but he could say loud things others did not want to say.’’


Rose looks like a space cadet to me. A guy who is living in his own world, which is moving at a different speed.
RE: Ainge is not going to wait for a draft pick to develop  
MotownGIANTS : 4/27/2017 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13444964 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
they are an older win now team, guarantee he trades for a superstar...


How are we an older team? In a must win now mode we are actually over achieving and ahead of schedule for the rebuild. There is no need to mortgage the future .... we actually have to stashed lottery picks coming over next season a C and PF. That's why Flutz or Jackson is the pick. A 6ers big will be in green next season as well. Now someone maybe able to get our 1st next or the Brooklyn pick next year but the offer will have to good. Now that is a trade that might happen but it will be a team in the blowup rebuild mode .... Pacers maybe for P George
I thought the new CBA  
Deej : 4/27/2017 1:46 pm : link
means max guys would be leaving a boatload on the table if they leave for their 3rd contract. Or is that just for guys who hit the MVP/First Team levels.
RE: RE: Rose barely talks lol  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13445028 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13445025 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


“[Carmelo Anthony] off the court is calm. There are rare moments when he heats up about something, [Derrick] Rose is quiet, he barely talks. So Noah was the guy who tried to talk, tried to help and spoke to coaches, too. But even he could not influence the wrong decisions we made. It was difficult. But Joakim is the guy – he maybe did not play at the level we all wanted, but he could say loud things others did not want to say.’’



Rose looks like a space cadet to me. A guy who is living in his own world, which is moving at a different speed.


Which is part of the reason I'm trying to understand the argument for bringing him back. He had no real chemistry with KP/Willy, it's evident he's not a "leader" vocally or by his actions. He undermines the coaches vs. being a veteran asset. He reportedly was unhappy being benched for Baker (we are hopeful a rookie more deserving of major PT than Baker is brought on via the draft) He can still score, wonderful for him but does next to nothing for the Knicks. Sign a guy like Sergio Rodriguez to a 1 year deal at inflated AAV.
RE: RE: Ainge is not going to wait for a draft pick to develop  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13445034 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13444964 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


they are an older win now team, guarantee he trades for a superstar...




How are we an older team? In a must win now mode we are actually over achieving and ahead of schedule for the rebuild. There is no need to mortgage the future .... we actually have to stashed lottery picks coming over next season a C and PF. That's why Flutz or Jackson is the pick. A 6ers big will be in green next season as well. Now someone maybe able to get our 1st next or the Brooklyn pick next year but the offer will have to good. Now that is a trade that might happen but it will be a team in the blowup rebuild mode .... Pacers maybe for P George


What about Joel Embiid? I think the sixers could be willing to part at the right price, he's due for a big contract next season. May be able to get him without a BKN pick.
RE: RE: Ainge is not going to wait for a draft pick to develop  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13445034 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13444964 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


they are an older win now team, guarantee he trades for a superstar...




How are we an older team? In a must win now mode we are actually over achieving and ahead of schedule for the rebuild. There is no need to mortgage the future .... we actually have to stashed lottery picks coming over next season a C and PF. That's why Flutz or Jackson is the pick. A 6ers big will be in green next season as well. Now someone maybe able to get our 1st next or the Brooklyn pick next year but the offer will have to good. Now that is a trade that might happen but it will be a team in the blowup rebuild mode .... Pacers maybe for P George


umm because your 2 best players are pver 30, one you are about to give big money to..

you are going to build around them, he is not going to build around the draft picks...

You arent getting Embiid for less than a BK pick  
Deej : 4/27/2017 1:55 pm : link
I dont know if Philly would consider trading him. But if they did, it would be for another super-duper star possible return. Embiid obviously got hurt. But when he played he was flashing Shaq/Robinson/Hakeem level impact potential.
Boston isn't in "win now" mode  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 1:59 pm : link
They're essentially a rebuilding team that gets playoff ticket sales and sold out arenas in the regular season. Best of both worlds.
RE: Boston isn't in  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13445062 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
They're essentially a rebuilding team that gets playoff ticket sales and sold out arenas in the regular season. Best of both worlds.


then they shouldnt give a 5 year max deal to thomas...

RE: RE: Boston isn't in  
giantsfan44ab : 4/27/2017 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13445067 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13445062 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


They're essentially a rebuilding team that gets playoff ticket sales and sold out arenas in the regular season. Best of both worlds.



then they shouldnt give a 5 year max deal to thomas...


They haven't...
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 2:13 pm : link
and Kobe no longer speak? Weird.
RE: Melo  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13445090 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
and Kobe no longer speak? Weird.


apparently kobe was telling melo basically to suck it up with phil and that you have to go through the bad first and melo basically didnt want to hear it
Couldn't  
DanMetroMan : 4/27/2017 2:21 pm : link
have been too much of a friendship if that's what "ended" it considering everyone always said how close they were.
RE: Couldn't  
nygiants16 : 4/27/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13445108 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
have been too much of a friendship if that's what "ended" it considering everyone always said how close they were.


i dunno i heard it on alan hahn
Phil will have plenty of suitors for Melo  
Earl the goat : 4/27/2017 6:23 pm : link
Celtics aren't as good as Ainge thought they were
Bulls with Rondo would've beaten them
Melo would've made a huge difference on this team

Thunder could've absolutely used Melo. Westbrook had no other scorer

If Cavs don't win Lebron will be hollering for Melo

Clips are a mess Don't know what to expect from them
CP3 is such an overrated so called superstar and can never get this team to advance

Jeannie Buss and Magic will be inquiring too



RE: Phil will have plenty of suitors for Melo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/27/2017 7:08 pm : link
In comment 13445535 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Celtics aren't as good as Ainge thought they were
Bulls with Rondo would've beaten them
Melo would've made a huge difference on this team

Thunder could've absolutely used Melo. Westbrook had no other scorer

If Cavs don't win Lebron will be hollering for Melo

Clips are a mess Don't know what to expect from them
CP3 is such an overrated so called superstar and can never get this team to advance

Jeannie Buss and Magic will be inquiring too




Who's knocking down the door for an old, expensive, declining scorer to come to their team and be quicksand for your offense?

Danny Ainge doesn't make trades unless they're brutally lopsided in his favor.

RE: RE: Phil will have plenty of suitors for Melo  
Earl the goat : 4/27/2017 7:10 pm : link
In comment 13445643 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13445535 Earl the goat said:


Quote:


Celtics aren't as good as Ainge thought they were
Bulls with Rondo would've beaten them
Melo would've made a huge difference on this team

TTH. We will see and reconvene at draft

Thunder could've absolutely used Melo. Westbrook had no other scorer

If Cavs don't win Lebron will be hollering for Melo

Clips are a mess Don't know what to expect from them
CP3 is such an overrated so called superstar and can never get this team to advance

Jeannie Buss and Magic will be inquiring too






Who's knocking down the door for an old, expensive, declining scorer to come to their team and be quicksand for your offense?

Danny Ainge doesn't make trades unless they're brutally lopsided in his favor.
RE: RE: RE: Ainge is not going to wait for a draft pick to develop  
MotownGIANTS : 4/28/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13445052 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13445034 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


In comment 13444964 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


they are an older win now team, guarantee he trades for a superstar...




How are we an older team? In a must win now mode we are actually over achieving and ahead of schedule for the rebuild. There is no need to mortgage the future .... we actually have to stashed lottery picks coming over next season a C and PF. That's why Flutz or Jackson is the pick. A 6ers big will be in green next season as well. Now someone maybe able to get our 1st next or the Brooklyn pick next year but the offer will have to good. Now that is a trade that might happen but it will be a team in the blowup rebuild mode .... Pacers maybe for P George



umm because your 2 best players are pver 30, one you are about to give big money to..

you are going to build around them, he is not going to build around the draft picks...


This is B-Ball not football 30 is not the same. However you mention 2 out off 15 .... that is not even 25% of the team and Rozier, Smart, Brown, Zizic & Yabo plus the THREE LOTTERY PICKS in the next 2 yrs we are far from old and in win now mode ...

Dont hate cause your FO sucks as does your team. Your best player is never going to get it done ... now you have trade him on a buyer's market and guess what he aint leaving LaLa (she aint leaving NY) soooo he aint going nowhere (no trade clause) ... dude about to try and save his marriage

The Knicks are in perpetual rebuild mode while trying to reclaim past glory ... No one cares about playing in the Garden ... Maybe the bigger market is appealing but going to a perennial loser is not.
my bad  
MotownGIANTS : 4/28/2017 4:31 pm : link
1 Lottery THIS year and 1 NEXT yr plus we still have that 1st rd pick as well...
Here  
DanMetroMan : 4/28/2017 4:32 pm : link
is something a shitty franchise can emulate even when lacking the talent

"Prior to joining the Heat, Waiters thought he was already in excellent shape after playing four years in the NBA. James Johnson, who had been in the NBA for seven seasons and can literally kick the rim on a regulation hoop, thought the same thing prior to signing with Miami last offseason.

Most players have this reaction. Then, they show up for the team’s workouts.

“After one week, my body [was] shot,” Waiters recalled. “I was damn near throwing up in trash cans like in the movies.”

The Heat’s offseason workouts, training camps and practices are the stuff of legend. Players work extremely hard, spending a ton of time on conditioning and weight training. And it never really lets up. This year’s team was still doing full-contact practices in the final week of this season – even when a playoff berth was a realistic possibility.

“They had us come in early during the offseason to prepare for training camp,” said one current Heat player, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “We did sprints and other conditioning drills, and we even went outside to push some sleds and flip tires and stuff like that. This was all to get ready for training camp.

“When camp started, it was definitely different. With other teams, they may have veterans who can’t run as much so the training camp is kind of built to accommodate those guys. In Miami, we were all trying to make a name for ourselves so it was competitive and we were all ready to work hard. We had sayings like, ‘No fake gym rats,’ ‘No excuses,’ and, ‘Always get one percent better.’ If you came to the gym, it wasn’t to make an appearance so the coaches can see you. You’re coming to get better. We don’t want any fake gym rats.”

While intense, the work paid off. Sources say that Waiters trimmed his body fat percentage by nearly five percent from the start of the season to now. He was so proud of the transformation that he posted a copy of his before-and-after picture on Snapchat after the season ended."
Link - ( New Window )
Celtics fan from Motown, huh?  
Greg from LI : 4/28/2017 4:41 pm : link
Totally checks out.
Ainge doesnt build through the draft  
nygiants16 : 4/28/2017 4:46 pm : link
the celtics are nothing but overachieving role players with 1 superstar who is playing out of his mind...

Celtics will never win a championship with the core they have, and ainge is a horrible drafter..

guarantee he trades for superstar..

cletics are damn lucky billy king is a moron
RE: Ainge doesnt build through the draft  
MotownGIANTS : 4/28/2017 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13449325 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
the celtics are nothing but overachieving role players with 1 superstar who is playing out of his mind...

Celtics will never win a championship with the core they have, and ainge is a horrible drafter..

guarantee he trades for superstar..

cletics are damn lucky billy king is a moron


Hmmm Smart, Brown, Rozier, Bradley, *Rondo all picks on his watch ... but ok not to mention Zizic and Yabo (coming over next season)
You cant talk shit to a Knicks fan  
Deej : 4/28/2017 4:56 pm : link
we have no pride and no respect for how our team is run. You cant hurt our feelings.
RE: RE: Ainge doesnt build through the draft  
nygiants16 : 4/28/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13449342 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13449325 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


the celtics are nothing but overachieving role players with 1 superstar who is playing out of his mind...

Celtics will never win a championship with the core they have, and ainge is a horrible drafter..

guarantee he trades for superstar..

cletics are damn lucky billy king is a moron



Hmmm Smart, Brown, Rozier, Bradley, *Rondo all picks on his watch ... but ok not to mention Zizic and Yabo (coming over next season)


and all role players...

hos championship was built on trades..

this team is good because of a trade and free afency..

his teams are not built through the draft..

you just named 7 pivks out of how many first rounders he has had?



RE: You cant talk shit to a Knicks fan  
MotownGIANTS : 4/28/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13449343 Deej said:
Quote:
we have no pride and no respect for how our team is run. You cant hurt our feelings.



LOL
oh and you named 3 players who have a lot to prove  
nygiants16 : 4/28/2017 5:09 pm : link
before they are called good picks
RE: RE: Ainge doesnt build through the draft  
Deej : 4/28/2017 5:14 pm : link
In comment 13449342 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 13449325 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


the celtics are nothing but overachieving role players with 1 superstar who is playing out of his mind...

Celtics will never win a championship with the core they have, and ainge is a horrible drafter..

guarantee he trades for superstar..

cletics are damn lucky billy king is a moron



Hmmm Smart, Brown, Rozier, Bradley, *Rondo all picks on his watch ... but ok not to mention Zizic and Yabo (coming over next season)


Yeah that's Rondo and a bunch of role players. And Rozier, who has been worse than Jerian grant. You missed a lot of better players taken during the Ainge era (though no one great), like Al Jeff and Tony Allen. But all in all, a lot of role players and duds.

I wont roast Ainge for his drafts, but he doesnt deserve praise. It's tough to draft outside of the elite picks. Ainge goes for singles a lot, and gets some. But role players.
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