Don't hate the pick. He may be the best TE available, but he still doesn't give us the physical TE they need. But, neither would Njoku. I would have gone with a different position here. But, I can't complain either because he is immediately the #1 TE.
But these days they can use ellison as the in-line TE and feature Engram in the slot with Marshall and Beckham outside, or go double slots with Shep and Engram inside and no line TE.
Bottom line, adding Marshall and Engram should really help this offense, especially in the red zone. I would be looking at LBs, OL, DBs the rest of the way, with maybe a RB thrown in. No more WRs or TEs.
have preferred defense, but can't argue with Engram. Tremendous weapon. OK blocker, but stretches the seam fantastically. Match up nightmare. We desperately need that type of weapon.
Howard. Was listening to Kirwan a few hours ago, and he mentioned how much more of a natural pass catcher Ingram is than Howard. Howard catches with his body, Engram with his hands.
Was kind of hoping for Cook, but I'm pretty ecstatic with getting Engram.
Summary: Three time 1st Team All SEC tight end and the programs all time leader in receptions and yards at the position. Ended his career with a 1st Team All American honor. Engram fits the mold of a hybrid tight end/wide receiver that can be moved around in to different starting positions to keep a defense on its heels. His quickness off the like and near-top level ball skills will make him a quarterbacks best friend on third and reasonable. While his blocking impact may not be as high as some of the others, he is no slouch. The two time team captain leaves it all out on the field each week and his weaknesses can be somewhat hidden in most situations.
*Durng the grading process, I thought there was a legit shot Engram would finish atop this list. He was close and to be honest, these two may be back to back on the overall big board. If Njoku is gone and Engram ends up being the pick, I wouldnt be disappointed one bit. Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds. While he is a notch or two below as a blocker from most of these guys, he still got the job done in the SEC against linebackers consistently. In terms of what his role would be long term, think of how the Redskins use Jordan Reed. He has that kind of ability, if not more.
Bottom line, adding Marshall and Engram should really help this offense, especially in the red zone. I would be looking at LBs, OL, DBs the rest of the way, with maybe a RB thrown in. No more WRs or TEs.
Foster has a failed drug test, a 9 on the wonderlic and the incident at the combine.
By kiper etc.. that other college teams said he was the player that scared them. Dangerous weapon for Eli. Another tall wr basically a TE by name only. With him, Marshall and Shepard, no more doubles on on. Now look for OT,DT and olb
Love this pick! I was teetering between Njoku and Engram
Summary: Three time 1st Team All SEC tight end and the programs all time leader in receptions and yards at the position. Ended his career with a 1st Team All American honor. Engram fits the mold of a hybrid tight end/wide receiver that can be moved around in to different starting positions to keep a defense on its heels. His quickness off the like and near-top level ball skills will make him a quarterbacks best friend on third and reasonable. While his blocking impact may not be as high as some of the others, he is no slouch. The two time team captain leaves it all out on the field each week and his weaknesses can be somewhat hidden in most situations.
*Durng the grading process, I thought there was a legit shot Engram would finish atop this list. He was close and to be honest, these two may be back to back on the overall big board. If Njoku is gone and Engram ends up being the pick, I wouldnt be disappointed one bit. Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds. While he is a notch or two below as a blocker from most of these guys, he still got the job done in the SEC against linebackers consistently. In terms of what his role would be long term, think of how the Redskins use Jordan Reed. He has that kind of ability, if not more.
Upside Pro Comparison: Aaron Hernandez - JAIL
Great he's going to jail. Hhaa
But how is he even similar to him. Hernandez was an h back
I wanted an OL or TE, since those were the glaring needs. I had hoped for Howard, but it wasn't meant to be, but Engram fits closer to the mold of the Green Bay style TEs, more undersized but effective (think Jermichael Finley) and a matchup problem. Teams are going to have fits trying to cover all this on the Giants.
I'd love to see these OL continue to fall to the 2nd round. If Lamp can be there for the Giants tomorrow, I'd do a dance.
Would rather sit here and focus on his negatives when they can focus on the positives and how he can/will benefit this team
Yup, don't understand it either. He's not a plus blocker...who cares. We have Ellison to block and now have a 4th weapon on offense who could end up being the 2nd most talent player on offense.
I Love it!!! They already have a blocking TE.... this guy doesn't need to do EVERYTHING day 1...he can do ONLY what he already does well, and be a major impact.
I love the Pick!....and it shows that MacAdoo is having an influence and growing the offense out.
All the clamoring around here for OL had me needlessly worried. Ellison and Engram are going to make our offensive line immediately better. We basically played without an NFL caliber TE last season. And our offense was pathetic. Very solid pick by JR.
2 time SB MVP w/2-3 good years left. A guy who has proven he has the it factor Anything other than going all in would be insane to me. I'd have puked if we took a QB. Would have meant to me they thought Eli was a shell of his former self.
Im riding off your quote, but responding to the idea of QB or long term strategy more than directly to you, B.
Don't hate the pick. He may be the best TE available, but he still doesn't give us the physical TE they need. But, neither would Njoku. I would have gone with a different position here. But, I can't complain either because he is immediately the #1 TE.
My immediate feeling 100%. I question the fit. I don't question the value/talent. I'll warm up to him though.
to get a complete TE, like Howard (really the only one in draft), but no problem with the pick. Has great potential as a receiver, which is really the key thing you want from a TE. We got another big receiver in Marshall, but this guy's speed at TE should prove to be a real matchup issue.
Don't hate the pick. He may be the best TE available, but he still doesn't give us the physical TE they need. But, neither would Njoku. I would have gone with a different position here. But, I can't complain either because he is immediately the #1 TE.
My immediate feeling 100%. I question the fit. I don't question the value/talent. I'll warm up to him though.
we really could use guys who get open immediately. Engram can. I see Engram used in conjunction with Ellison/Adams in the no-huddle, but their versatility allows the Giants to use FAR more formations than they have in the past. Engram can be a wing on one play (Aaron Hernandez), line up in the slot on the next play, then line up as an H-back on the play after that.
They could've gone in a few other directions, but I have little doubt that Engram is a player who will get as close to his ceiling as possible.
Don't hate the pick. He may be the best TE available, but he still doesn't give us the physical TE they need. But, neither would Njoku. I would have gone with a different position here. But, I can't complain either because he is immediately the #1 TE.
My immediate feeling 100%. I question the fit. I don't question the value/talent. I'll warm up to him though.
I don't agree, because McAdoo will scheme an offense to get a ton of folks open every down. Like GB's offense.
2 time SB MVP w/2-3 good years left. A guy who has proven he has the it factor Anything other than going all in would be insane to me. I'd have puked if we took a QB. Would have meant to me they thought Eli was a shell of his former self.
Im riding off your quote, but responding to the idea of QB or long term strategy more than directly to you, B.
I like the pick. Not sure what your response means, I guess?
gotta love that. Never seems to let it get into his body
He has excellent hands! Better than many WRs
i mean if we get decent pass protection how do you defend us? Last year the giants saw a ton of two deep safeties and they were going to see it a lot this year. Now how are you going to guard Engram. With a linebacker and the deep middle open???
I Love it!!! They already have a blocking TE.... this guy doesn't need to do EVERYTHING day 1...he can do ONLY what he already does well, and be a major impact.
I love the Pick!....and it shows that MacAdoo is having an influence and growing the offense out.
This is my other thought, having Ellison in house allows this.
Eli is surrounded with potent weapons, me they are everywhere. If we can get some talent in the OL pipeline and we bring in Blount at a reasonable deal, this offseason is a home run.
I'm surprised people don't like this pick. I mean, not that surprised.. but surprised.
Engram is going to be a guy we can line up on the line, in the slot, split wide.. this dude is going to be a matchup nightmare. Too fast for linebackers, too big for a lot of DB's.
Defenses already have to worry about covering Beckham and Brandon Marshall. Shepard is no slouch, either. Teams are going to have to play a lot of zone because they're not going to be able to man us up.
Engram is going to be a serious weapon. Good luck stopping this team in the RZ.
but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
I want to see the running game improved too, and Blount will help big time!
Let's wait 'til after day 2 before jumping on Blount.
Plenty of good RBs still available if you are not looking for a feature back. (I'm high on Gallman for that role.)
Remember Blount was an UDFA.
but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
Okay, good. I don't know anything about Engram, so I'm not going to pretend I do. That's why I asked.
but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
All the talk about offensive weapons ... but to win in December you have to be able to run the ball. Would have liked to see someone who can block.
That's why they signed Ellison. And let's face it, this Giants offense is not a smashmouth one. That's not how this team is going to win games on offense.
but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
Okay, good. I don't know anything about Engram, so I'm not going to pretend I do. That's why I asked.
Yeah, definitely don't worry about this being like Beckum - Engram is much faster, better hands, MUCH more difficult cover.. I'd say he's better at pretty much everything.
This is a legit weapon. Beckum was essentially an H-back hybrid player who really didn't excel at anything.
They line him up at TE, and then they shift him outside, against a much smaller corner....this guy can go up for the ball....our Red Zone offense, with Marshall and Engram, should be much improved....
I remember the Pats doing this, and the defense sent a LB out there to cover him.....one juke and 50 yards later, it was no contest......this guy has the speed to get separation from linebackers, and jumping ability to go against smaller DB's.....
As for blocking, he is no Howard or Njoku.....but he is a talented athlete and I am sure he won't misfire on blocks like Tye and Donnell did.....
Just stop and think for a minute what this offense would like with
but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
Okay, good. I don't know anything about Engram, so I'm not going to pretend I do. That's why I asked.
Yeah, definitely don't worry about this being like Beckum - Engram is much faster, better hands, MUCH more difficult cover.. I'd say he's better at pretty much everything.
This is a legit weapon. Beckum was essentially an H-back hybrid player who really didn't excel at anything.
Thanks. Pretty exciting, then. Looking forward to the Fall even more now.
All the talk about offensive weapons ... but to win in December you have to be able to run the ball. Would have liked to see someone who can block.
meh the giants won there last superbowl with no running game. And this pick also helps the running game because linebackers are going to have to be worried about the play action pass. If the over commit Engram runs right by them. Before they didn't have to worry about Tye/Donnell running down the field because they were so slow.
Our 11 personnel will be scrazy because teams will have to have a linebacker on Engram...good luck with that.
Some of you guys insisted on saying the Giants needed to take a TE
Like to hear from Sy and Dave-Te about his hands, ability to come down with the ball etc . . .
Blocking does not concern me. A guy his size is not going to be used like a traditional TE in the running game. But I'll bet he comes a good blocker in pass pro.
Think about this: he is a decent amount fast than Christian McCaffrey, despite being a much bigger man. Wow.
RE: RE: Seems like a 'tweener' ... and I'm not impressed
Add about 5 lbs .... so if he can just be a good chipper then attack the route with a LB on him that would be ok but him being telegraphs it is a passing play .... outside of draws and delayed handoffs
Beckham and Shepard in the slot; Marshall and Engram wide
Seems unfounded given that the offense is completely different. Beckum was an odd pick at the time, and reflective IMO of a disconnect between the player selection process and how they were employed on the field. Engram may have been a poor fit then too.
But in this offense? Makes total sense. Can't say yet if it's a good or bad pick, but it makes sense.
All the talk about offensive weapons ... but to win in December you have to be able to run the ball. Would have liked to see someone who can block.
Engram can block and Ellison can definitely block. We also have a bunch of picks left. This isn't the only player we're getting.
Football is changing, league is dominated by Tweeners at the TE position. Gronk is the exception, but he can't stay healthy.
Yes, this is a player type that is becoming much more coveted in this league - guys with Engrams skill set can do a ton of damage.
We all want the Giants to be able to block better.. for Eli, and for the backs. But reaching for a lineman @ 23 when much more talented players were on the board - like Engram - would have been a terrible strategy.
complaining? The kid is a coverage nightmare with Odell, Brandon. Sterling and Ellison at FB. Good luck to the Defensive Coordinators trying to stop them.
In round 2 I had Dawkins. Hope I'm right. Engram is a great choice. Fastest TE, Best hand of all te's and great route runner. We'll love this guy. Future all pro imo
In one of my many pre-draft posts pushing for Engram, I brought up Travis Beckum, but only to say that Reese had the right idea with Beckum, but the wrong player.
This time, it's the right idea and the right player.
Is an impact player right? He plays the same game. But...he's more explosive. It's super impressive how Engram takes off after the catch. He can take a 5 yard hook and spilt the defense for long gains.
Engram will make plays and make it easier for BeckhamZ. A lot of good defensive talent on the board but this pick makes a lot of sense for NYG.
In one of my many pre-draft posts pushing for Engram, I brought up Travis Beckum, but only to say that Reese had the right idea with Beckum, but the wrong player.
This time, it's the right idea and the right player.
Gotcha. They are similar size, but Engram appears to be way better at football; that's all I needed to hear. Thanks to you and arc for answering my question. Much appreciated.
this aint your grandaddy's NFL.. There is more than one type of TE in the NFL. They got a guy who can move the sticks. The Giants can now utilize another formation OTHER Than 11 personnel. He can attack the seam. He is too fast for most LB's and too big for most CB's and Safeties..
You need the ability to stress a defense. This kid can help do that..
Its a solid pick. He is a better receiver and route runner than Njoku is NOW.. Njoku might be better 3 years from now.. but right NOW I think Engram has better hands and runs better routes..
If he can seal the perimeter vs CB's and LB's on running plays.. then he is doing his job.
on the field at the same time unless we go to two receivers with Sheppard on the bench so it will be interesting to see how they prevent telegraphing run/pass depending on what TE is in.
Ellison being our primary run blocking TE, and Engram being our primary passing TE. Of course, we will start to mix it up during play action, but I'm guessing that will be our approach. Ellison can also be our FB.
on the field at the same time unless we go to two receivers with Sheppard on the bench so it will be interesting to see how they prevent telegraphing run/pass depending on what TE is in.
I think they will take Shep off at times, with Ellison and Engram in both 2-TE and H-Back sets.
on the field at the same time unless we go to two receivers with Sheppard on the bench so it will be interesting to see how they prevent telegraphing run/pass depending on what TE is in.
I think they will take Shep off at times, with Ellison and Engram in both 2-TE and H-Back sets.
Yeah. I guess they will have to put thats pretty mind blowing to process right now. We are in a 3 WR set like all the time. lol.
Reese had the right idea with Beckum - Coughlin was the coach who would not utilize him in the role and wanted him to be a inline blocking TE. Beckum was really one of the first of that type of TE's
Engram as SO-SR played 8 games against AL, LSU, FL, FSU & TN - teams that send a lot of defensive players to NFL
8 games 34 catches 492 yds 14.47 ypc 4 TD's
He was hard to defend by good defenses - that is what you look at
2 time SB MVP w/2-3 good years left. A guy who has proven he has the it factor Anything other than going all in would be insane to me. I'd have puked if we took a QB. Would have meant to me they thought Eli was a shell of his former self.
Im riding off your quote, but responding to the idea of QB or long term strategy more than directly to you, B.
I like the pick. Not sure what your response means, I guess?
Are we in agreement? I'm hoping so.
It's a solid pick. Very exciting.
We are man. I agree. It was to people wanting a QB or other long term strategy. Engram should help us win more games on Sunday from day 1. Can't wait to see Beckham, Marshall, Shepherd and Engram on the field together. Anyone on edge will feel better when training camp reports start coming out.
Two tight end sets with Engram and Ellison
Marshall and Sheppard on one side
Beckham on the other
A one back set with Perkins in the backfield
And one of the best no huddle qb running the hurry-up.
Two tight end sets with Engram and Ellison
Marshall and Sheppard on one side
Beckham on the other
A one back set with Perkins in the backfield
And one of the best no huddle qb running the hurry-up.
With their 4th option. Engram as the 4th option makes this offense scary. Doesn't matter if they know what we're doing if all our guys can beat 1 on 1 coverage. What's that term? Heavy handed? I love this pick.
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
My 1st Round Yardstick since the late 70's: Do the Cowboys, Skins
Yes, Washington took Allen, but he's taking his arthritic shoulder along for the ride. Dallas and Philly took edge rushers severely lacking lacking in twitch and explosion.
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
"Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds."
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
"Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds."
From Sy's review.
We'll see where they play him. I thought he was an H-Back and I didn't see how it made sense with Ellison and Tye essentially as H-Backs, but I do think he's an upgrade over those two. I was pretty pissed when the pick was made, but I do think Engram has potential to be a good player.
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said that we don't put a premium on the TE position.
I don't think picking a TE on the first day for the first time in fourteen years means that that line of thinking was suddenly all nonsense. They have passed on many TEs over the years.
You're right that is 12 players. I guess you also made the case for drafting Howard over Engram. With Howard, no need to have a 2 tight end set for versatility.
See him replacing Marshall at WR in a couple of years with Adams being the full time TE of he develops. I don't think the Emgram pick precludes this as a possibility.
I was worried that he was too soft for TE, jut an over-sized WR. Was quickly disabused watching his video. He may not be taking on DL's from a 3-point stance, but I've not seen any TE tougher or more willing to square up to defenders. I think more than a few will be surprised by how tough and aggressive this kid is as a blocker.
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said that we don't put a premium on the TE position.
I don't think picking a TE on the first day for the first time in fourteen years means that that line of thinking was suddenly all nonsense. They have passed on many TEs over the years.
Granted, but there were people who said there was no chance we'd take a TE. Call him an overgrown WR or whatever, but he's listed as a TE.
That if it weren't for the diluted sample, they may have taken him. Harris and Davis were smokescreens. Would have taken Bolles. Link - ( New Window )
I heard Engram from two different people (a long time ago), one who insisted Bolles was never in the picture.
Good job by you (and others) keeping that under your hat. As much as I wanted the Giants to draft Engram, I honestly didn't think there was a chance in hell that they would.
But Eli is still going to need more than two seconds to throw the ball.
1, the line is going to be better and 2, we are going to pass fast, run blocking just might be more important moving forward.
How so? I am confident that Reese and company think this guy is going to be special, but what leads you to think the line will be better? I hope that Flowers progresses and that a healthy Pugh and Richburg will help, but that seems like a bold statement
But Eli is still going to need more than two seconds to throw the ball.
1, the line is going to be better and 2, we are going to pass fast, run blocking just might be more important moving forward.
How so? I am confident that Reese and company think this guy is going to be special, but what leads you to think the line will be better? I hope that Flowers progresses and that a healthy Pugh and Richburg will help, but that seems like a bold statement
It's optimistic, but not bold. You're asking players who have played at a high level before to play at a high level again. We now know Richburg was playing with injury. Pugh always seems to be dinged up.
As for Engram he's a physical freak with incredible upside as a receiving threat from multiple formations. His length, 33.5" arms, 4.42 speed, sub 7 3-cone all add up to a guy that is a mismatch for LB's and most safeties. I think he'll also be a very good perimeter and space blocker. Not sure he'll ever be a 'plus' blocker in-line but he doesn't have to be if we utilize him properly.
Engram has incredible hands, athleticism, and like most say is essentially a bid body receiver out there playing TE. Oh and he's faster than everyone else. Great stuff Jerry!
"While other members of Ole Miss' superb 2013 recruiting class received more attention, Engram really played well in his debut for the Rebels. The true freshman caught 21 passes for 268 yards with three touchdowns. 2014 was an even better season for Engram than his freshman year. The sophomore caught 38 passes for 662 yards with two touchdowns in 2014. Engram was a dangerous receiving threat who carved up Alabama, Auburn and Mississippi State. Engram absolutely torched and abused future New York Giants safety Landon Collins in their matchup that season."
"one of the smartest & cleanest players in this draft"
"his skillset i think is closer to Mike Evans"
"he ran a tenth of a second faster than Mike Evans at the same weight"
Evans wins with size and length. He doesn't use short area quicks to get open.
Engram cuts and separatesZ . He's better on short routes. He's quick and explosive. That isn't Evans. He is Jordan Reed but more explosive. That's he comp and it's a great weapon for us.
this year than in past years. I figured Howard would be gone. After looking at highlights between Engram and Njoku, Engram seems like the guy who will come in an contribute more so day 1. Njoku looks like he could be your more traditional TE, which is appealing, but also looked like kind of a project.
Pretty happy with this selection. Great hands, speed, seems to love football. Sounds like he will be a willing blocker and can hopefully improve in that area. Maybe add 10 pounds to his frame to aid in that.
but Engram blocked #1 overall Myles Garrett several times in the Ole Miss vs. Texas A&M game, and didn't whiff except once.
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo. Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
His run blocking in that video was surprisingly good. While he struggled at times with technique, his effort level was ALWAYS high. Outside of 1 play, his pass protection was pretty good too.
but Engram blocked #1 overall Myles Garrett several times in the Ole Miss vs. Texas A&M game, and didn't whiff except once.
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo. Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
His run blocking in that video was surprisingly good. While he struggled at times with technique, his effort level was ALWAYS high. Outside of 1 play, his pass protection was pretty good too.
but Engram blocked #1 overall Myles Garrett several times in the Ole Miss vs. Texas A&M game, and didn't whiff except once.
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo. Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
His run blocking in that video was surprisingly good. While he struggled at times with technique, his effort level was ALWAYS high. Outside of 1 play, his pass protection was pretty good too.
None of the TE's on the current roster can do this. But if you're looking to Ellison to block, Ellison will also have to be the RB if you want to play three WR's. You can field only 11 players on offense. Five OL, Engram, Shepard, Beckham, Marshall, Ellison, and Eli make eleven. No more room for a talented RB.
Was surprised we took him in the 1st when a number of mocks had us taking him in the 2nd. Having said that, I fully realize JR and company do their homework; which doesn't include a review of the mocks.
He was my guy for TE even w/Njoku still on the board. He ran a 4.42 at the combine (OBJ ran a 4.43), great hands, w/RAC every time he gets the ball (no Tye catch,Tye go down) & along w/Marshall,a huge red zone threat. Every draft guide I read compares him to Jordan Reed but faster. We have gone from the smurf receiving corp in 2016 to a 2017 addition w/OBJ,Shepherd,Marshall & Engram. If we can add Blount as a big back, this offense is scary. Going forward in the 2nd/3rd round,I hope we take an OLineman, which I think we will. But, Engram is a difference maker & I'm excited about how he'll fit into Mac's Offense!
David Wilson over Cordy Glen, ODB over Zach Martin and a super skinny TE Engram over Lamp.
There are probably other examples.
And, while we do love ODB for sure, we also all saw the results of the trend come W/L column, style of play and frustrating inconsistency high risk / high reward choices in what to do with the ball, how to maintain drives.
All that said, the draft is not at all over.
That said, it is typically much harder to hit on all 7 picks when one goes this direction early. Expect a trade up in 2 with resulting effect on rest of draft, team balance issues.
nothing against the kid, at all, he will probably be great
than most think. Peppers and maybe Charlton are the only guys taken below him that I had any interest in for the Giants. I think this is a better pick.
KUDOS to Jordan Ranaan for the spot on call that the Giants had no interest in Njoku.
That's just so much BS. Either there's a trend or there isn't, and "clearly" there isn't.
Quote:
and neither has been ideal for mac ball, as the maddening inability to maintain drives without resorting to Eli-Becks every time showed us.
Hence the signing of Brandon Marshall, who should pay big dividends on 3rd down and in the red zone, and the drafting of Engram, as dynamic an offensive playmaker as you'll find in this year's draft. 6-3, with 4.42 speed and ten-inch hands...he's just what the doctor ordered to cure our woefully anemic offense.
-especially when picking late ish in each round, your choice of positional emphasis in round 1 impacts on your ability, or not, to find quality at certain positions all the way down the rest of the draft.
Jerry has often placed additional value on kids on both sides of the ball with that narrow base for whatever reason.
He probably isn't a TE in the long term. Fattening him up may not be the best move for his career. He is an athlete. Watch him play. He runs and moves and makes adjustments to a pass like a WR.
Swap the position from his info card to WR and guys with timed speed and eye test like this usually go in the top ten. If we look back on this in two years and he's basically Mike Evans, I won't complain one bit.
RE: Speed Kills!! I'm excited by the prospect of a big fast receiver with
feeling like the red zone issues we had last year was a primary concern going into the offseason. Marshall & Engram should improve the red zone offense considerably. TE has always been a very big role in our red zone offense. Larry Donnell was a weak option but still had a high percentage of our red zone looks. Replace that with Engram and Cruz with Marshall and that's a lot of body space in the endzone.
problem being, that if we cannot run the ball, you leave the current OL on the horns of a dilemma:
Having to do very basic pass pro technique on each and every down (with no viable play action threat).
which did not go well last year. poor Flowers is a basket case right now.
not sure what the plan is - schematic or positional, or both, but it is not all that entertaining for old school football fans and did not help Manning much.
I like his athleticism and upside. If he's used correctly (big if) he could be an impact player.
That said, there's questions about his blocking ability. If he struggles blocking at the NFL level it's going to affect his ability to get on the field and really devalues the pick. If he can't block either he sits or Marshall/Shep sits (devaluing the Shep pick and/or Marshall acquisition).
feeling like the red zone issues we had last year was a primary concern going into the offseason. Marshall & Engram should improve the red zone offense considerably. TE has always been a very big role in our red zone offense. Larry Donnell was a weak option but still had a high percentage of our red zone looks. Replace that with Engram and Cruz with Marshall and that's a lot of body space in the endzone.
Yep, it also busts Cover-2 and gets brackets off OB. Big upside pick similar to Apple, these are really young dudes.
with the FA TE we signed, Marshal, and EE even just as a good blocking slot, we may need to go for a much heavier dose of outside zone runs next season, ala Falcons, and then play action.
Not sure how much advantage we are taking of Marshal, Engram and the new FA TE in blocking if we are still relying on the G-C-G to hold up on each and every play as a clear pass thing.
Whereas with a variety of outside zone runs, all these new players can run block various types of defenders.
getting Perkins out to the edge very quickly will be a key.
possibly the front office has forced a change to play calling %ages, either way it will a very close call if we can nail the rest of the draft.
conversly, if you want the new players to run deep seam routes
with current line and no play action, instead a simple drop back and pass, you are still asking the line to do something it had trouble with last year.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
He is also faster than AJ Green..
I dont care what they call this kid.. TE, HBack, WR. Doesnt matter. Giants just got more explosive of offense and should be much better in the red zone as well.
What would it have taken to move up to take Howard and would that have been worth it in comparison to getting Engram?
Looking at the draft pick value chart, it looks like our 2nd (350 points) and 1st (760 points) would buy the 18th (900 points).
I think our 3rd (155) gets us to the 900. Next question is giving up that 3rd worth it for Howard over Engram?
Another thread showed teams usually overpay in the first to trade up. If you do the third pick, you likely have to include another as well, a 6th or 7th maybe. Or a 4th for a 5th swap kind of deal.
And no, I don't think Howard is worth two picks if we can land Engram.
To those of you worried about Engram's blocking ability keep in mind who he is replacing. Donnell was the worst TE in the NFL in terms of blocking. While he works at it Tye is also a below average blocker. Jerrell Adams was our best blocking TE but he is still raw and needs to get stronger and improve his technique.
The TE position is very similar to 2002. The Giants had one of the league's best blocking TE's in Dan Campbell which allowed Shockey to run more routes. Now Ellison is Campbell but luckily we won't lose him in a year like the Giants did when Campbell left which affected Shockey's production and it also affected the play of the offensive line.
feeling like the red zone issues we had last year was a primary concern going into the offseason. Marshall & Engram should improve the red zone offense considerably. TE has always been a very big role in our red zone offense. Larry Donnell was a weak option but still had a high percentage of our red zone looks. Replace that with Engram and Cruz with Marshall and that's a lot of body space in the endzone.
Yep, it also busts Cover-2 and gets brackets off OB. Big upside pick similar to Apple, these are really young dudes.
It's really interesting that they supposedly wanted Bolles after taking Flowers, Apple and Engram, all really young guys.
Yep they paid Ellison AND made this pick for a reason
They will line up Ellison very much like Pasco/Cambell and to boot he's a better pass catcher than them. You have to be really excited about watching this football team next year. Man what a difference a year makes!
He's just not a TE. You'd wouldn't believe it if you didn't know his position. He looks so natural turning back to catch a seam or making these twisting falling adjustment catches. Gonna try to cut some of this video into gifs.
on Benigo and Roberts mentioned that the Giants can line him up in the back field, and see how the defense is set up and move him to the left or right.
Is there anything the Giants do that you approve of? Or do you just choose to find fault in every single thing imaginable?
You must be a real treat...
Well, the problem is there has been a lot of bad the past few years(5 or so),so it kinda lines up with my opinions.1 playoff season hasn't erased my memory.
feeling like the red zone issues we had last year was a primary concern going into the offseason. Marshall & Engram should improve the red zone offense considerably. TE has always been a very big role in our red zone offense. Larry Donnell was a weak option but still had a high percentage of our red zone looks. Replace that with Engram and Cruz with Marshall and that's a lot of body space in the endzone.
Yep, it also busts Cover-2 and gets brackets off OB. Big upside pick similar to Apple, these are really young dudes.
It's really interesting that they supposedly wanted Bolles after taking Flowers, Apple and Engram, all really young guys.
From what I was told there was no interest in OL at #23.
There's a misconception around here that Engram is all pass-catcher and has no blocking ability.
This isn't true.
I sincerely hope this is true. If he can just be an adequate blocker, which means better than Donnel and Tye, then this is a great pick. I just want him on the field all the time, not just for pass plays.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
it just gives us another receiver who doesn't block well ....
Well this is wrong... For a WR he is one of the better blocking WRs in the NFL. For a TE though his blocking is lacking. Big difference between the 2. He is a great blocker for WR
RE: RE: RE: Willing blocker is the best you're gonna get
Is there anything the Giants do that you approve of? Or do you just choose to find fault in every single thing imaginable?
You must be a real treat...
Well, the problem is there has been a lot of bad the past few years(5 or so),so it kinda lines up with my opinions.1 playoff season hasn't erased my memory.
The team won 11 games last year. The defense was outstanding. We added the best available WR in FA - we just drafted a TE who is going to be a massive weapon in the pass game.
If you can't be excited about the prospect of this years team, I'm not sure if you're going to find good in anything.
2013-2015 were ugly. But this team is pretty clearly headed in a much better direction right now.
Brings another weapon to the offense with some versatility that we didn't have. This is the option down the seam that we simply did not have last season. I love the size, route running, and speed combination. And by all indications, while he's not a dominant blocker, he's more than willing and at least adequate at it.
Seeing comparisons to Jordan Reed and Aaron Hernandez (on the field obviously). Yes please.
While his blocking impact may not be as high as some of the others, he is no slouch. The two time team captain leaves it all out on the field each week and his weaknesses can be somewhat hidden in most situations.
So where are these complaints coming from? It's like people hear hybrid WR/TE and just assume he doesn't give a shit about his blocking
this time last year. Now they are as intriguing and deep a group as any team going. BE happy.
Giants have managed to turn a few sore spots into strengths in the span of one calendar year. DL, TE, WR and DB are all loaded now. LB and RB aren't terrible but that's assuming we add a RB here at some point. The OL isn't as bad as people think. The biggest problem with the OL last year was at TE. Flowers needs to eliminate 2 bad games and we are fine. He doesn't have to be great. The OL doesn't have to even be very good. Just adequate. You can't have stars everywhere.
Here are some quick and dirty cuts from available video
Yeah after watching that... he is a dangerous weapon and a matchup nightmare for defenses. Can't really go wrong with a draft pick that fits that description.
Watching the video highlights, what sticks out to me is his hands. Add that to his athletic ability and speed. This guy is a weapon. Eli and McAdoo are going to have fun finding ways to drive defenses crazy with these receivers.
enough to worry about taking him off the field. Imagine some packages with Marshall and Engram split wide - OBJ in the slot - and Ellison at in-line TE?
So much you can do.
We've gone from having to use the same formation 95% of the time and being laughably easy to prepare for, to being a team that can run almost an infinite number of formations. Hope McAdoo's ready to expand the playbook.
Well done. The body control, hands, instincts, and ability to get open make him seem more like a big WR in the Mike Evans blueprint.
Mike Evans came to mind too, but he doesn't have that long-limbed awkwardness that a lot of bigs have. He seems really agile and quick, except he's also 230+ and 6'3.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Unless you put Beckham in the backfield. Swing passes. Toss passes. You can get creative with this. lol.
I found the highlights vs Texas A&M the best of the linked videos
Because it showed Engram blocking, which I thought he was doing well and, significantly, with some enthusiasm. Make sure to take the time and watch those highlights. Well worth it.
Yeah after watching that... he is a dangerous weapon and a matchup nightmare for defenses. Can't really go wrong with a draft pick that fits that description.
.
That's nice, means diddly starting in 2017. Thanks for input, and taking up half the thread as well!
Because it showed Engram blocking, which I thought he was doing well and, significantly, with some enthusiasm. Make sure to take the time and watch those highlights. Well worth it.
the knocks on his blocking are so overblown it's ridiculous, almost as if people didn't pay attention and just assumed a guy that runs 4.4 must be "soft".
I doubt he'll ever be a dominant "in line TE", but whatever it's 2017 and he's a freak of nature that I can't imagine covering 1 on 1 successfully, so there's that.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
will tye's measurables eerily resembled Jordan reed if I remember correctly ... it's not even close with Engram
he's basically a turbocharged version of Reed/Hernandez ... with Odell outside and Marshall added I honestly have no idea how you'd game plan for this pass game.
I have to say I am very impressed with Chad Kelly's arm. I know he has a questionable character but I would like to take a chance on this kid in the 5th or 6th round. Having him sit and learn from Eli could be just what Kelly needs. He will see how hard a professional works and all the preparation that is needed to be successful.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Reed is 10lbs heavier now. He was just about the same weight as Engram coming out of school. Engram was 234 at the combine, Reed was 236.
I have to say I am very impressed with Chad Kelly's arm. I know he has a questionable character but I would like to take a chance on this kid in the 5th or 6th round. Having him sit and learn from Eli could be just what Kelly needs. He will see how hard a professional works and all the preparation that is needed to be successful.
funny, I also found myself watching the QB after a few highlights ... he's the kind of guy you use a day 3 pick on
I'd much rather have Kelly in the 5/6th than any of these QBs in the 1st
I have to say I am very impressed with Chad Kelly's arm. I know he has a questionable character but I would like to take a chance on this kid in the 5th or 6th round.
Glad you posted this Jay because I kept thinking that QB has some ability.
funny, I also found myself watching the QB after a few highlights ... he's the kind of guy you use a day 3 pick on
I'd much rather have Kelly in the 5/6th than any of these QBs in the 1st
I am not going to pretend I have seen a lot of Trubisky or any of the other QB's besides Mahomes but I was actually more impressed with Kelly's highlight videos than I was with Trubisky's. I also would rather use a late round pick on Kelly instead of a 1st on any of the other QB's.
Watched a bunch of Engram down here in SEC country
over past few years. The guy has some serious wheels and has the type of game, at the speed level of the current NFL game, to be considered nothing other than a true weapon.
Looking forward to having Eli as my fantasy starter each week...
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
will tye's measurables eerily resembled Jordan reed if I remember correctly ... it's not even close with Engram
he's basically a turbocharged version of Reed/Hernandez ... with Odell outside and Marshall added I honestly have no idea how you'd game plan for this pass game.
The defensive plan for this passing game? Two words: Pass rush
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Unless you put Beckham in the backfield. Swing passes. Toss passes. You can get creative with this. lol.
Oh that is good. Of course your are telegraphing pass, but still who are you going to cover especially when there is motion. I mean it gives a lot of options and options are good.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Reed is 10lbs heavier now. He was just about the same weight as Engram coming out of school. Engram was 234 at the combine, Reed was 236.
Good to know. I always though Reed was over 240 at the combine. Amazing the speed of Reed as he looks much quicker than 4.72 IMO.
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Unless you put Beckham in the backfield. Swing passes. Toss passes. You can get creative with this. lol.
Oh that is good. Of course your are telegraphing pass, but still who are you going to cover especially when there is motion. I mean it gives a lot of options and options are good.
I do agree it's a little bothersome that he doesn't seem well suited to a single TE set. Seems like the only way to have him and Ellison on the field at the same time is empty backfield.
I wonder if it's viable to go 3 wide with OBJ - Marshall - Shepard, Engram at TE or motioning out to the slot, with Ellison being the one in the H-back role for pass protection (I'm not a coach or scout, so maybe you'd switch Ellison and Engram's positions).
Lastly, I think that our goal line set would be awesome to pass out of if you had Ellison/Engram/Tye/Adams on the field at the same time (with one, probably Ellison or Adams lined up as fullback).
I wonder if they'll keep all 4 TEs, because they do all have a roll. I'd be kind of bummed if Tye or Adams was cut. I think they both deserve sports in lieu of a fullback.
335. Biggest TE ever?
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4.42 at 6-3 335
335. Biggest TE ever?
Hang on. Went on a crash diet and lost 100 pounds
Giants signed a versatile guy in Rhett Ellison as a UFA. Added another one in Evan Engram. Extremely talented. Top 20 in some teams' minds.
There were whispers before the draft that the Giants liked Engram more than Howard.
Let's hope the line improves.
Last year they rebuilt the defense. This year the offense.
Great pick!
Don't have a problem with that AT ALL
Very similar.
sounds great to me.
Engram has better hands.
The Falcons were drooling for Engram, and they have an excellent eye for offensive talent, so that makes me warm a bit more to this pick
You gotta trust him
You don't take a project in rd 1 unless it's a Qb.
Engram is going to feast on underneath routes with Beckham, Marshall, and Shepard drawing coverage. This ups NYG passing game to new level.
FINALLY the Giants have a NFL-caliber TE that will HELP Eli.
The reports say he's willing, but he's essentially a big WR.
They know how to draft offense, which applies here
Jerry Reese: "We think this guy can be a dynamic weapon in our offense." #Giants
Ellison.
GM Jerry Reese: We think this guy can be a dynamic weapon in our offense...a matchup nightmare.
That said, I like the pick. No real complaints. But I was pining a bit for Njoku if they went TE with Howard off the board.
Bottom line, adding Marshall and Engram should really help this offense, especially in the red zone. I would be looking at LBs, OL, DBs the rest of the way, with maybe a RB thrown in. No more WRs or TEs.
The rest of the draft should be OL and D.
1, the line is going to be better and 2, we are going to pass fast, run blocking just might be more important moving forward.
Was kind of hoping for Cook, but I'm pretty ecstatic with getting Engram.
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2017/04/13/new-york-giants-2017-nfl-draft-preview-tight-ends/ - ( New Window )
2 Evan Engram 63/234 Ole Miss: 84
Summary: Three time 1st Team All SEC tight end and the programs all time leader in receptions and yards at the position. Ended his career with a 1st Team All American honor. Engram fits the mold of a hybrid tight end/wide receiver that can be moved around in to different starting positions to keep a defense on its heels. His quickness off the like and near-top level ball skills will make him a quarterbacks best friend on third and reasonable. While his blocking impact may not be as high as some of the others, he is no slouch. The two time team captain leaves it all out on the field each week and his weaknesses can be somewhat hidden in most situations.
*Durng the grading process, I thought there was a legit shot Engram would finish atop this list. He was close and to be honest, these two may be back to back on the overall big board. If Njoku is gone and Engram ends up being the pick, I wouldnt be disappointed one bit. Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds. While he is a notch or two below as a blocker from most of these guys, he still got the job done in the SEC against linebackers consistently. In terms of what his role would be long term, think of how the Redskins use Jordan Reed. He has that kind of ability, if not more.
Upside Pro Comparison: Aaron Hernandez - JAIL
Quote:
Shockey 2.0
Don't have a problem with that AT ALL
No, Shockey was actually a TE, this kid is more Mike Evans,
as in big WR. I am okay with it, rather have Njoku here.
Quote:
.....
Me too, but I also worry about his size.
Bottom line, adding Marshall and Engram should really help this offense, especially in the red zone. I would be looking at LBs, OL, DBs the rest of the way, with maybe a RB thrown in. No more WRs or TEs.
Foster has a failed drug test, a 9 on the wonderlic and the incident at the combine.
Quote:
In comment 13447082 spike said:
Quote:
Shockey 2.0
Don't have a problem with that AT ALL
.
No, Shockey was actually a TE, this kid is more Mike Evans,
as in big WR. I am okay with it, rather have Njoku here.
This guy can Block too
Look in team building - drop down to draft.
Sy'56 had him #2 to Njoku at 84 rating, Said he was almost the #1 TE. Loves him....
We have Rhett ellison
Engram is a slot WR like Marques Colston. He's going to be used in the slot to beat up nickel CBs and slow ass OLBers.
The real exciting prospect is how often we use 2 TE sets now under McAdoos offense.
and McAdoo was a TE coach and knows what he wants from the position.
Good. Didn't want Harris
Quote:
2 Evan Engram 63/234 Ole Miss: 84
Summary: Three time 1st Team All SEC tight end and the programs all time leader in receptions and yards at the position. Ended his career with a 1st Team All American honor. Engram fits the mold of a hybrid tight end/wide receiver that can be moved around in to different starting positions to keep a defense on its heels. His quickness off the like and near-top level ball skills will make him a quarterbacks best friend on third and reasonable. While his blocking impact may not be as high as some of the others, he is no slouch. The two time team captain leaves it all out on the field each week and his weaknesses can be somewhat hidden in most situations.
*Durng the grading process, I thought there was a legit shot Engram would finish atop this list. He was close and to be honest, these two may be back to back on the overall big board. If Njoku is gone and Engram ends up being the pick, I wouldnt be disappointed one bit. Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds. While he is a notch or two below as a blocker from most of these guys, he still got the job done in the SEC against linebackers consistently. In terms of what his role would be long term, think of how the Redskins use Jordan Reed. He has that kind of ability, if not more.
Upside Pro Comparison: Aaron Hernandez - JAIL
Great he's going to jail. Hhaa
But how is he even similar to him. Hernandez was an h back
That said, I like the pick. No real complaints. But I was pining a bit for Njoku if they went TE with Howard off the board.
Same here B. But at least it is not a QB or overrated OL. I would have been very happy with Njoku or Lamp here, maybe even Bowser.
But Engram is a playmaker. This is an exciting pick
Engram Highlight Film - ( New Window )
"The #NYGiants TE Evan Ingram @OleMissFB reminds me of #Redskins Jordan Reed. Great separation as a receiver,"
we rewarded him a contract.
hes going to block.
and he will be happy.
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They were set to take Missouri DE there before Miami took him 1 pick before.
Good. Didn't want Harris
That's hopefully an indication they realize that JPP and Vernon can't play 90% of the snaps next season, and need some help.
I'd love to see these OL continue to fall to the 2nd round. If Lamp can be there for the Giants tomorrow, I'd do a dance.
I would have preferred Foster but I just heard that he has a bad shoulder that may require surgery.
Sounds like a Cowboy pick.
I would have preferred Foster but I just heard that he has a bad shoulder that may require surgery.
Sounds like a Cowboy pick.
Quote:
In comment 13447173 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
They were set to take Missouri DE there before Miami took him 1 pick before.
Good. Didn't want Harris
That's hopefully an indication they realize that JPP and Vernon can't play 90% of the snaps next season, and need some help.
Not sure this was the case
Yup, don't understand it either. He's not a plus blocker...who cares. We have Ellison to block and now have a 4th weapon on offense who could end up being the 2nd most talent player on offense.
So weird.
"The #NYGiants TE Evan Ingram @OleMissFB reminds me of #Redskins Jordan Reed. Great separation as a receiver,"
He's a little taller and a little thinner but very similar.
I love the Pick!....and it shows that MacAdoo is having an influence and growing the offense out.
An excellent pick, that fits this offense
I just hope we aren't saying "God damn. We could have had Dalvin Cook" in a few years.
2 time SB MVP w/2-3 good years left. A guy who has proven he has the it factor Anything other than going all in would be insane to me. I'd have puked if we took a QB. Would have meant to me they thought Eli was a shell of his former self.
Im riding off your quote, but responding to the idea of QB or long term strategy more than directly to you, B.
Sy ranked 7 players higher and 8 others with the same grade.
in his top 15.
Exactly! And don't think that wasn't a reason for the pick. Pick your poison opposing secondaries!!!!
My immediate feeling 100%. I question the fit. I don't question the value/talent. I'll warm up to him though.
Well, he's actually short for a TE, but really big for a guy who's flanked out.
I do not think there is any comparison between the two. Very excited.
I guess we will see more predictable play calls he will trot out on the field o passing downs ?
Quote:
, http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2017/04/13/new-york-giants-2017-nfl-draft-preview-tight-ends/ - ( New Window )
Sy ranked 7 players higher and 8 others with the same grade.
in his top 15.
Bottom line, Sy likes him
Quote:
Don't hate the pick. He may be the best TE available, but he still doesn't give us the physical TE they need. But, neither would Njoku. I would have gone with a different position here. But, I can't complain either because he is immediately the #1 TE.
My immediate feeling 100%. I question the fit. I don't question the value/talent. I'll warm up to him though.
The fit is ideal. This is not TCs offense
We sure about that?
I guess we will see more predictable play calls he will trot out on the field o passing downs ?
What?
That is why they got him!
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I guess the average height of our received increased a few inches this off season.
Well, he's actually short for a TE, but really big for a guy who's flanked out.
Just saying, having a few playmakers over 6 foot is nice.
I guess we will see more predictable play calls he will trot out on the field o passing downs ?
He can block some.
They could've gone in a few other directions, but I have little doubt that Engram is a player who will get as close to his ceiling as possible.
Good pick Jerry.
Quote:
No more doubles on obj
Exactly! And don't think that wasn't a reason for the pick. Pick your poison opposing secondaries!!!!
I don't think that was going to be an issue either way, with Marshall on the other side.
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Don't hate the pick. He may be the best TE available, but he still doesn't give us the physical TE they need. But, neither would Njoku. I would have gone with a different position here. But, I can't complain either because he is immediately the #1 TE.
My immediate feeling 100%. I question the fit. I don't question the value/talent. I'll warm up to him though.
I don't agree, because McAdoo will scheme an offense to get a ton of folks open every down. Like GB's offense.
He has excellent hands! Better than many WRs
Dodge, I get it, and agree. Nice to have a few tall receivers for Eli!
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Into the fuckin middle. All of um. Win now.
2 time SB MVP w/2-3 good years left. A guy who has proven he has the it factor Anything other than going all in would be insane to me. I'd have puked if we took a QB. Would have meant to me they thought Eli was a shell of his former self.
Im riding off your quote, but responding to the idea of QB or long term strategy more than directly to you, B.
I like the pick. Not sure what your response means, I guess?
Are we in agreement? I'm hoping so.
It's a solid pick. Very exciting.
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gotta love that. Never seems to let it get into his body
He has excellent hands! Better than many WRs
i mean if we get decent pass protection how do you defend us? Last year the giants saw a ton of two deep safeties and they were going to see it a lot this year. Now how are you going to guard Engram. With a linebacker and the deep middle open???
the seem will be $$$
I love the Pick!....and it shows that MacAdoo is having an influence and growing the offense out.
This is my other thought, having Ellison in house allows this.
3 min mark, obj one handed catch comparison
[quote] he can learn and that is why they signed
Yeah right
YEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2013 ALA 14 269 19.2 52 2
2014 ALA 17 260 15.3 53 0
2015 ALA 38 602 15.8 63 2
2016 ALA 45 595 13.2 68 3
David Njoku
YEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2016 MIAMI 43 698 16.2 76 8
2015 MIAMI 21 362 17.2 58 1
Evan EngramREC YDS AVG LNG TDYEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2013 MISS 21 268 12.8 64 3
2014 MISS 38 662 17.4 83 2
2015 MISS 38 464 12.2 36 2
2016 MISS 65 926 14.2 63 8
Engram is going to be a guy we can line up on the line, in the slot, split wide.. this dude is going to be a matchup nightmare. Too fast for linebackers, too big for a lot of DB's.
Defenses already have to worry about covering Beckham and Brandon Marshall. Shepard is no slouch, either. Teams are going to have to play a lot of zone because they're not going to be able to man us up.
Engram is going to be a serious weapon. Good luck stopping this team in the RZ.
Collectively we had the worst TEs in the league.
Our WRS are small prior to Marshall.
We now have 2 huge mismatch guys and 2 small mismatch guys.
Good luck covering that.
We can now play both 11 and 12 sets.
Bingo.
[quote] he can learn and that is why they signed
Yeah right
mdc please share your immense knowledge with us as I am sure you have spent hours scouting Engram. Sy said he is a solid blocker.
Let's wait 'til after day 2 before jumping on Blount.
Plenty of good RBs still available if you are not looking for a feature back. (I'm high on Gallman for that role.)
Remember Blount was an UDFA.
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
He"s more explosive than Reed. Same type of player but he's a tougher guy to cover.
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but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
Okay, good. I don't know anything about Engram, so I'm not going to pretend I do. That's why I asked.
Sy thought he was the 2nd best TE in the draft.
vs. Florida State (2016): 9 catches, 121 yards, TD
He can absolutely play against top competition
If he's anywhere near Jordan Reed, this is the best group of weapons Eli has ever had
That's why they signed Ellison. And let's face it, this Giants offense is not a smashmouth one. That's not how this team is going to win games on offense.
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In comment 13447364 Dave in Hoboken said:
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but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
Okay, good. I don't know anything about Engram, so I'm not going to pretend I do. That's why I asked.
Yeah, definitely don't worry about this being like Beckum - Engram is much faster, better hands, MUCH more difficult cover.. I'd say he's better at pretty much everything.
This is a legit weapon. Beckum was essentially an H-back hybrid player who really didn't excel at anything.
I remember the Pats doing this, and the defense sent a LB out there to cover him.....one juke and 50 yards later, it was no contest......this guy has the speed to get separation from linebackers, and jumping ability to go against smaller DB's.....
As for blocking, he is no Howard or Njoku.....but he is a talented athlete and I am sure he won't misfire on blocks like Tye and Donnell did.....
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In comment 13447373 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13447364 Dave in Hoboken said:
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but when I hear 'undersized TE', especially with this FO, I think of Travis Beckum. Please tell me this guy is alot better than that scrub/awful pick at...everything?
Engram is nothing like Travis Beckum.
Okay, good. I don't know anything about Engram, so I'm not going to pretend I do. That's why I asked.
Yeah, definitely don't worry about this being like Beckum - Engram is much faster, better hands, MUCH more difficult cover.. I'd say he's better at pretty much everything.
This is a legit weapon. Beckum was essentially an H-back hybrid player who really didn't excel at anything.
Thanks. Pretty exciting, then. Looking forward to the Fall even more now.
Engram can block and Ellison can definitely block. We also have a bunch of picks left. This isn't the only player we're getting.
meh the giants won there last superbowl with no running game. And this pick also helps the running game because linebackers are going to have to be worried about the play action pass. If the over commit Engram runs right by them. Before they didn't have to worry about Tye/Donnell running down the field because they were so slow.
Our 11 personnel will be scrazy because teams will have to have a linebacker on Engram...good luck with that.
Well, TEs that are glorified WRs are exactly what the Green Bay offense does.
And they're both 6'3". :)
Blocking does not concern me. A guy his size is not going to be used like a traditional TE in the running game. But I'll bet he comes a good blocker in pass pro.
Think about this: he is a decent amount fast than Christian McCaffrey, despite being a much bigger man. Wow.
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All the talk about offensive weapons ... but to win in December you have to be able to run the ball. Would have liked to see someone who can block.
Engram can block and Ellison can definitely block. We also have a bunch of picks left. This isn't the only player we're getting.
Football is changing, league is dominated by Tweeners at the TE position. Gronk is the exception, but he can't stay healthy.
So does this mean he will be an every down TE? Will he stay in for running plays? If not then the D knows we are passing when he comes in for Ellison.
Yeah, no comparison.
In Day 2 I would a pass rusher either from LB or DE.
FANTASTIC PICK.
Well, TEs that are glorified WRs are exactly what the Green Bay offense does.
Bingo!
But in this offense? Makes total sense. Can't say yet if it's a good or bad pick, but it makes sense.
Fingers crossed for Lamp or Baker in round two.
He turns 23 right before the season starts.
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In comment 13447394 Spider56 said:
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All the talk about offensive weapons ... but to win in December you have to be able to run the ball. Would have liked to see someone who can block.
Engram can block and Ellison can definitely block. We also have a bunch of picks left. This isn't the only player we're getting.
Football is changing, league is dominated by Tweeners at the TE position. Gronk is the exception, but he can't stay healthy.
Yes, this is a player type that is becoming much more coveted in this league - guys with Engrams skill set can do a ton of damage.
We all want the Giants to be able to block better.. for Eli, and for the backs. But reaching for a lineman @ 23 when much more talented players were on the board - like Engram - would have been a terrible strategy.
22
This time, it's the right idea and the right player.
Maybe the giants trade up in round 2 and fill a need. They've done it before.
Engram will make plays and make it easier for BeckhamZ. A lot of good defensive talent on the board but this pick makes a lot of sense for NYG.
His highlights in college show him as a monster running seam routes or along the hash marks
This time, it's the right idea and the right player.
Gotcha. They are similar size, but Engram appears to be way better at football; that's all I needed to hear. Thanks to you and arc for answering my question. Much appreciated.
You need the ability to stress a defense. This kid can help do that..
Its a solid pick. He is a better receiver and route runner than Njoku is NOW.. Njoku might be better 3 years from now.. but right NOW I think Engram has better hands and runs better routes..
If he can seal the perimeter vs CB's and LB's on running plays.. then he is doing his job.
Bingo!
Link - ( New Window )
I think they will take Shep off at times, with Ellison and Engram in both 2-TE and H-Back sets.
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Also, teams are not going to be able to C2 us to death anymore. Engram will be a seam buster. Very important.
His highlights in college show him as a monster running seam routes or along the hash marks
Yup. Guys like this destroy C2's. We didn't have the right player to do it last year. Not anymore.
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on the field at the same time unless we go to two receivers with Sheppard on the bench so it will be interesting to see how they prevent telegraphing run/pass depending on what TE is in.
I think they will take Shep off at times, with Ellison and Engram in both 2-TE and H-Back sets.
Yeah. I guess they will have to put thats pretty mind blowing to process right now. We are in a 3 WR set like all the time. lol.
Engram as SO-SR played 8 games against AL, LSU, FL, FSU & TN - teams that send a lot of defensive players to NFL
8 games 34 catches 492 yds 14.47 ypc 4 TD's
He was hard to defend by good defenses - that is what you look at
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13447158 B in ALB said:
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Into the fuckin middle. All of um. Win now.
2 time SB MVP w/2-3 good years left. A guy who has proven he has the it factor Anything other than going all in would be insane to me. I'd have puked if we took a QB. Would have meant to me they thought Eli was a shell of his former self.
Im riding off your quote, but responding to the idea of QB or long term strategy more than directly to you, B.
I like the pick. Not sure what your response means, I guess?
Are we in agreement? I'm hoping so.
It's a solid pick. Very exciting.
We are man. I agree. It was to people wanting a QB or other long term strategy. Engram should help us win more games on Sunday from day 1. Can't wait to see Beckham, Marshall, Shepherd and Engram on the field together. Anyone on edge will feel better when training camp reports start coming out.
Marshall and Sheppard on one side
Beckham on the other
A one back set with Perkins in the backfield
And one of the best no huddle qb running the hurry-up.
nice!
WOW. This kid moves like a wide reciever.
Marshall and Sheppard on one side
Beckham on the other
A one back set with Perkins in the backfield
And one of the best no huddle qb running the hurry-up.
That's 12 players.
And Njoku on the board
But they went with Engram
Here's hoping he turns out to be great.
But faster. And honestly, may have better hands, Evans catches a case of the dropsies from time to time.
NFL Network/Mike Mayock.
That it is a high octane passing game
FANTASTIC PICK.
Great point! Have fun playing that against us now!
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
2017 Answer: F*(# yeah they do.
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PISSED
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
You fucked up! You trusted us!
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PISSED
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
"Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds."
From Sy's review.
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In comment 13447123 UConn4523 said:
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PISSED
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said there was no chance we'd take a TE in the first round. That we don't put a premium on the TE position.
"Engram is essentially a top tier speed WR that weighs 234 pounds."
From Sy's review.
We'll see where they play him. I thought he was an H-Back and I didn't see how it made sense with Ellison and Tye essentially as H-Backs, but I do think he's an upgrade over those two. I was pretty pissed when the pick was made, but I do think Engram has potential to be a good player.
OBJ runs 4.43 in his sleep. I don't care what the combine numbers say. Use your eyes. He's easily in the 4.3s
There were whispers before the draft that the Giants liked Engram more than Howard.
Not this again. Fake news!
Ben McAdoo on Evan Engram: "The fastest way to the end zone is down the middle of the field."
Ross on difference between Engram and Njoku: "(Engram's) versalitly, his hands, route running experience were what we liked about him"-GM
Ross: "The way Ole Miss used him, he could line up at 4-5 positions. I would envision we would use him in a similar fashion"-GM
Reese thinks Engram's speed down the middle will stress the 2-high safety look they saw so much last season.
"I can't put it into words...New York was at the top. This is an amazing feeling." - Evan Engram
"I know I'm ready to come in and make an immediate impact. I know for a fact." - Evan Engram
"Coaches love to move me around to create mismatches....I get excited when I see a big linebacker trying to man me up." - Evan Engram
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PISSED
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said that we don't put a premium on the TE position.
I don't think picking a TE on the first day for the first time in fourteen years means that that line of thinking was suddenly all nonsense. They have passed on many TEs over the years.
Well, there's that. I'd rather have Engram than Charles Harris. I'd be surprised if Harris ends up as anything more than a situational pass-rusher.
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In comment 13447123 UConn4523 said:
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PISSED
Well, yes, I was but I guess I've warmed up to it...mainly because I've had to. I would've taken Foster, Ramczyk or Njoku. But one thing that gives me consolation is that McAdoo was a TE's coach so he must've pounded the table for Engram.
But even so, you guys said that we don't put a premium on the TE position.
I don't think picking a TE on the first day for the first time in fourteen years means that that line of thinking was suddenly all nonsense. They have passed on many TEs over the years.
Granted, but there were people who said there was no chance we'd take a TE. Call him an overgrown WR or whatever, but he's listed as a TE.
Nevertheless, after watching his highlight reel, I have some doubts about his ability to help the Giants:
1. Evan seems to catch the ball in stride instead of always having to jump to make a reception. This is bad form, no?
2. After catching the ball, Evan continues to run with it instead of falling down. I thought falling down was required.
3. He seems to hold onto the ball at all times instead of dropping it on a regular basis.
4. Evan seems to catch a lot of passes without much effort instead of having to make a circus catch to complete any pass thrown his way.
I just don't know what Reese was thinking.
Link - ( New Window )
I heard Engram from two different people (a long time ago), one who insisted Bolles was never in the picture.
If true, think about that for a moment.
A 6-3+ guy at 235 with great hands and super track speed.
Whoa.
Instant Draft Grade Evan Engram: A - ( New Window )
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That if it weren't for the diluted sample, they may have taken him. Harris and Davis were smokescreens. Would have taken Bolles. Link - ( New Window )
I heard Engram from two different people (a long time ago), one who insisted Bolles was never in the picture.
Good job by you (and others) keeping that under your hat. As much as I wanted the Giants to draft Engram, I honestly didn't think there was a chance in hell that they would.
"Runs routes like a WR" and now the Giants interest makes a lot more sense.
Just curious...
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But Eli is still going to need more than two seconds to throw the ball.
1, the line is going to be better and 2, we are going to pass fast, run blocking just might be more important moving forward.
How so? I am confident that Reese and company think this guy is going to be special, but what leads you to think the line will be better? I hope that Flowers progresses and that a healthy Pugh and Richburg will help, but that seems like a bold statement
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In comment 13447137 Reb8thVA said:
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But Eli is still going to need more than two seconds to throw the ball.
1, the line is going to be better and 2, we are going to pass fast, run blocking just might be more important moving forward.
How so? I am confident that Reese and company think this guy is going to be special, but what leads you to think the line will be better? I hope that Flowers progresses and that a healthy Pugh and Richburg will help, but that seems like a bold statement
It's optimistic, but not bold. You're asking players who have played at a high level before to play at a high level again. We now know Richburg was playing with injury. Pugh always seems to be dinged up.
As for Engram he's a physical freak with incredible upside as a receiving threat from multiple formations. His length, 33.5" arms, 4.42 speed, sub 7 3-cone all add up to a guy that is a mismatch for LB's and most safeties. I think he'll also be a very good perimeter and space blocker. Not sure he'll ever be a 'plus' blocker in-line but he doesn't have to be if we utilize him properly.
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That if it weren't for the diluted sample, they may have taken him. Harris and Davis were smokescreens. Would have taken Bolles. Link - ( New Window )
I heard Engram from two different people (a long time ago), one who insisted Bolles was never in the picture.
yeah, sounds like Ralph is covering his ass
Just curious...
I can't really comment on that for obvious reasons.
This means the Giants are getting better at the smokescreen...
"his skillset i think is closer to Mike Evans"
"he ran a tenth of a second faster than Mike Evans at the same weight"
Mayock - ( New Window )
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo.
Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
Looking at the draft pick value chart, it looks like our 2nd (350 points) and 1st (760 points) would buy the 18th (900 points).
Evans wins with size and length. He doesn't use short area quicks to get open.
Engram cuts and separatesZ . He's better on short routes. He's quick and explosive. That isn't Evans. He is Jordan Reed but more explosive. That's he comp and it's a great weapon for us.
Pretty happy with this selection. Great hands, speed, seems to love football. Sounds like he will be a willing blocker and can hopefully improve in that area. Maybe add 10 pounds to his frame to aid in that.
Go Giants! Can't wait for rounds 2 and 3!
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo. Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
His run blocking in that video was surprisingly good. While he struggled at times with technique, his effort level was ALWAYS high. Outside of 1 play, his pass protection was pretty good too.
Nice find.
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo. Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
His run blocking in that video was surprisingly good. While he struggled at times with technique, his effort level was ALWAYS high. Outside of 1 play, his pass protection was pretty good too.
Nice find.
He's a real h-back. With Ellison or Adams in-line, play action is going to be a true threat again.
This was a brilliant pick imo. Dude if going to be a beast - ( New Window )
His run blocking in that video was surprisingly good. While he struggled at times with technique, his effort level was ALWAYS high. Outside of 1 play, his pass protection was pretty good too.
Nice find.
Hey, highlighting my post without the need for a whole thread. I consider that a win, brother.
There are probably other examples.
And, while we do love ODB for sure, we also all saw the results of the trend come W/L column, style of play and frustrating inconsistency high risk / high reward choices in what to do with the ball, how to maintain drives.
All that said, the draft is not at all over.
That said, it is typically much harder to hit on all 7 picks when one goes this direction early. Expect a trade up in 2 with resulting effect on rest of draft, team balance issues.
Jerry has often placed additional value on kids on both sides of the ball with that narrow base for whatever reason.
Suddenly, the trend is not so "clear," is it.
and neither has been ideal for mac ball, as the maddening inability to maintain drives without resorting to Eli-Becks every time showed us.
KUDOS to Jordan Ranaan for the spot on call that the Giants had no interest in Njoku.
EE is a better athlete. Much faster.
also taller.
That's just so much BS. Either there's a trend or there isn't, and "clearly" there isn't.
Hence the signing of Brandon Marshall, who should pay big dividends on 3rd down and in the red zone, and the drafting of Engram, as dynamic an offensive playmaker as you'll find in this year's draft. 6-3, with 4.42 speed and ten-inch hands...he's just what the doctor ordered to cure our woefully anemic offense.
-especially when picking late ish in each round, your choice of positional emphasis in round 1 impacts on your ability, or not, to find quality at certain positions all the way down the rest of the draft.
I think eli might appreciate to run viable play action again as well
Nevertheless, after watching his highlight reel, I have some doubts about his ability to help the Giants:
1. Evan seems to catch the ball in stride instead of always having to jump to make a reception. This is bad form, no?
2. After catching the ball, Evan continues to run with it instead of falling down. I thought falling down was required.
3. He seems to hold onto the ball at all times instead of dropping it on a regular basis.
4. Evan seems to catch a lot of passes without much effort instead of having to make a circus catch to complete any pass thrown his way.
I just don't know what Reese was thinking.
Perfect!
Jerry has often placed additional value on kids on both sides of the ball with that narrow base for whatever reason.
He probably isn't a TE in the long term. Fattening him up may not be the best move for his career. He is an athlete. Watch him play. He runs and moves and makes adjustments to a pass like a WR.
Swap the position from his info card to WR and guys with timed speed and eye test like this usually go in the top ten. If we look back on this in two years and he's basically Mike Evans, I won't complain one bit.
Nevertheless, after watching his highlight reel, I have some doubts about his ability to help the Giants:
1. Evan seems to catch the ball in stride instead of always having to jump to make a reception. This is bad form, no?
2. After catching the ball, Evan continues to run with it instead of falling down. I thought falling down was required.
3. He seems to hold onto the ball at all times instead of dropping it on a regular basis.
4. Evan seems to catch a lot of passes without much effort instead of having to make a circus catch to complete any pass thrown his way.
I just don't know what Reese was thinking.
I also noticed that he doesn't do a somersault when he anticipates contact. Something to work on.
Thanks, Eric.
Having to do very basic pass pro technique on each and every down (with no viable play action threat).
which did not go well last year. poor Flowers is a basket case right now.
not sure what the plan is - schematic or positional, or both, but it is not all that entertaining for old school football fans and did not help Manning much.
Link - ( New Window )
That said, there's questions about his blocking ability. If he struggles blocking at the NFL level it's going to affect his ability to get on the field and really devalues the pick. If he can't block either he sits or Marshall/Shep sits (devaluing the Shep pick and/or Marshall acquisition).
Yep, it also busts Cover-2 and gets brackets off OB. Big upside pick similar to Apple, these are really young dudes.
Not sure how much advantage we are taking of Marshal, Engram and the new FA TE in blocking if we are still relying on the G-C-G to hold up on each and every play as a clear pass thing.
Whereas with a variety of outside zone runs, all these new players can run block various types of defenders.
getting Perkins out to the edge very quickly will be a key.
possibly the front office has forced a change to play calling %ages, either way it will a very close call if we can nail the rest of the draft.
He is also faster than AJ Green..
I dont care what they call this kid.. TE, HBack, WR. Doesnt matter. Giants just got more explosive of offense and should be much better in the red zone as well.
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What would it have taken to move up to take Howard and would that have been worth it in comparison to getting Engram?
Looking at the draft pick value chart, it looks like our 2nd (350 points) and 1st (760 points) would buy the 18th (900 points).
How to get that done?
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In comment 13447685 montanagiant said:
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What would it have taken to move up to take Howard and would that have been worth it in comparison to getting Engram?
Looking at the draft pick value chart, it looks like our 2nd (350 points) and 1st (760 points) would buy the 18th (900 points).
I think our 3rd (155) gets us to the 900. Next question is giving up that 3rd worth it for Howard over Engram?
Another thread showed teams usually overpay in the first to trade up. If you do the third pick, you likely have to include another as well, a 6th or 7th maybe. Or a 4th for a 5th swap kind of deal.
And no, I don't think Howard is worth two picks if we can land Engram.
The TE position is very similar to 2002. The Giants had one of the league's best blocking TE's in Dan Campbell which allowed Shockey to run more routes. Now Ellison is Campbell but luckily we won't lose him in a year like the Giants did when Campbell left which affected Shockey's production and it also affected the play of the offensive line.
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feeling like the red zone issues we had last year was a primary concern going into the offseason. Marshall & Engram should improve the red zone offense considerably. TE has always been a very big role in our red zone offense. Larry Donnell was a weak option but still had a high percentage of our red zone looks. Replace that with Engram and Cruz with Marshall and that's a lot of body space in the endzone.
Yep, it also busts Cover-2 and gets brackets off OB. Big upside pick similar to Apple, these are really young dudes.
It's really interesting that they supposedly wanted Bolles after taking Flowers, Apple and Engram, all really young guys.
I've read his blocking is better than you think as is his willingness to block. The exact opposite of The and the departed Larry Donnell.
This isn't true.
Is there anything the Giants do that you approve of? Or do you just choose to find fault in every single thing imaginable?
You must be a real treat...
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Is there anything the Giants do that you approve of? Or do you just choose to find fault in every single thing imaginable?
You must be a real treat...
Well, the problem is there has been a lot of bad the past few years(5 or so),so it kinda lines up with my opinions.1 playoff season hasn't erased my memory.
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In comment 13448168 Steve in Greenwich said:
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feeling like the red zone issues we had last year was a primary concern going into the offseason. Marshall & Engram should improve the red zone offense considerably. TE has always been a very big role in our red zone offense. Larry Donnell was a weak option but still had a high percentage of our red zone looks. Replace that with Engram and Cruz with Marshall and that's a lot of body space in the endzone.
Yep, it also busts Cover-2 and gets brackets off OB. Big upside pick similar to Apple, these are really young dudes.
It's really interesting that they supposedly wanted Bolles after taking Flowers, Apple and Engram, all really young guys.
From what I was told there was no interest in OL at #23.
This isn't true.
I sincerely hope this is true. If he can just be an adequate blocker, which means better than Donnel and Tye, then this is a great pick. I just want him on the field all the time, not just for pass plays.
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Well this is wrong... For a WR he is one of the better blocking WRs in the NFL. For a TE though his blocking is lacking. Big difference between the 2. He is a great blocker for WR
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In comment 13448478 ghost718 said:
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Is there anything the Giants do that you approve of? Or do you just choose to find fault in every single thing imaginable?
You must be a real treat...
Well, the problem is there has been a lot of bad the past few years(5 or so),so it kinda lines up with my opinions.1 playoff season hasn't erased my memory.
The team won 11 games last year. The defense was outstanding. We added the best available WR in FA - we just drafted a TE who is going to be a massive weapon in the pass game.
If you can't be excited about the prospect of this years team, I'm not sure if you're going to find good in anything.
2013-2015 were ugly. But this team is pretty clearly headed in a much better direction right now.
Seeing comparisons to Jordan Reed and Aaron Hernandez (on the field obviously). Yes please.
So where are these complaints coming from? It's like people hear hybrid WR/TE and just assume he doesn't give a shit about his blocking
Giants have managed to turn a few sore spots into strengths in the span of one calendar year. DL, TE, WR and DB are all loaded now. LB and RB aren't terrible but that's assuming we add a RB here at some point. The OL isn't as bad as people think. The biggest problem with the OL last year was at TE. Flowers needs to eliminate 2 bad games and we are fine. He doesn't have to be great. The OL doesn't have to even be very good. Just adequate. You can't have stars everywhere.
His tested vertical was 36". It shows.
Fluid, natural athlete. Not creaky or slow to get moving. (Read: not Adrien Robinson)
Ball skills.
Quickness of a much smaller sized person.
Route running, hands, aggression and toughness when smelling a score.
Body control, balance to stay on his feet.
Hands, concentration to complete on a busted play, doesn't get too excited. Downfield speed.
Comfortable in the seam, makes his play without needing to change play speed.
Yeah after watching that... he is a dangerous weapon and a matchup nightmare for defenses. Can't really go wrong with a draft pick that fits that description.
Actually it gives us another "receiver" who does in fact block well. So does MArshall.
The draft makes people weird.
So much you can do.
We've gone from having to use the same formation 95% of the time and being laughably easy to prepare for, to being a team that can run almost an infinite number of formations. Hope McAdoo's ready to expand the playbook.
Mike Evans came to mind too, but he doesn't have that long-limbed awkwardness that a lot of bigs have. He seems really agile and quick, except he's also 230+ and 6'3.
It's really easy to see why the team liked him.
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NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Unless you put Beckham in the backfield. Swing passes. Toss passes. You can get creative with this. lol.
This is the play that should have everybody excited:
This quickness/explosion is what separates him from the other TEs. This guy is going to be a great player for NYG.
So where are these complaints coming from? It's like people hear hybrid WR/TE and just assume he doesn't give a shit about his blocking
Shit, I think people just reflexively think "can't block" of most tight ends who are really good at catching.
It's like how people reflexively think "can't play run" of any DE who's a fast pass rusher.
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Just watch this... Link - ( New Window )
Yeah after watching that... he is a dangerous weapon and a matchup nightmare for defenses. Can't really go wrong with a draft pick that fits that description.
That's nice, means diddly starting in 2017. Thanks for input, and taking up half the thread as well!
the knocks on his blocking are so overblown it's ridiculous, almost as if people didn't pay attention and just assumed a guy that runs 4.4 must be "soft".
I doubt he'll ever be a dominant "in line TE", but whatever it's 2017 and he's a freak of nature that I can't imagine covering 1 on 1 successfully, so there's that.
will tye's measurables eerily resembled Jordan reed if I remember correctly ... it's not even close with Engram
he's basically a turbocharged version of Reed/Hernandez ... with Odell outside and Marshall added I honestly have no idea how you'd game plan for this pass game.
Quote:
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Reed is 10lbs heavier now. He was just about the same weight as Engram coming out of school. Engram was 234 at the combine, Reed was 236.
funny, I also found myself watching the QB after a few highlights ... he's the kind of guy you use a day 3 pick on
I'd much rather have Kelly in the 5/6th than any of these QBs in the 1st
Glad you posted this Jay because I kept thinking that QB has some ability.
funny, I also found myself watching the QB after a few highlights ... he's the kind of guy you use a day 3 pick on
I'd much rather have Kelly in the 5/6th than any of these QBs in the 1st
I am not going to pretend I have seen a lot of Trubisky or any of the other QB's besides Mahomes but I was actually more impressed with Kelly's highlight videos than I was with Trubisky's. I also would rather use a late round pick on Kelly instead of a 1st on any of the other QB's.
Looking forward to having Eli as my fantasy starter each week...
Quote:
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
will tye's measurables eerily resembled Jordan reed if I remember correctly ... it's not even close with Engram
he's basically a turbocharged version of Reed/Hernandez ... with Odell outside and Marshall added I honestly have no idea how you'd game plan for this pass game.
The defensive plan for this passing game? Two words: Pass rush
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In comment 13448211 Deej said:
Quote:
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Unless you put Beckham in the backfield. Swing passes. Toss passes. You can get creative with this. lol.
Oh that is good. Of course your are telegraphing pass, but still who are you going to cover especially when there is motion. I mean it gives a lot of options and options are good.
Quote:
In comment 13448211 Deej said:
Quote:
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Reed is 10lbs heavier now. He was just about the same weight as Engram coming out of school. Engram was 234 at the combine, Reed was 236.
Good to know. I always though Reed was over 240 at the combine. Amazing the speed of Reed as he looks much quicker than 4.72 IMO.
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In comment 13448542 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 13448211 Deej said:
Quote:
NFL Network: Engram "blows the doors off Reed" athletically Link - ( New Window )
Reed is also 10 lbs heavier and having concussion issues playing TE at a smaller size in the NFL. I like the pick though as he creates big time match up issues. I am curious though how we can play him in single TE sets unless we plan on passing the whole time. If we play him in 2 TE sets, which makes a ton of sense, then you are taking one of Marshall, Shepherd, or OBJ off the field. One thing for sure... on 3rd and 4 in hurry up with Marshall, OBJ, Shep, Engram, and then flex Perkins or Vereen out of the back field for 5 wide... It is like in taken... good luck
Unless you put Beckham in the backfield. Swing passes. Toss passes. You can get creative with this. lol.
Oh that is good. Of course your are telegraphing pass, but still who are you going to cover especially when there is motion. I mean it gives a lot of options and options are good.
I wonder if it's viable to go 3 wide with OBJ - Marshall - Shepard, Engram at TE or motioning out to the slot, with Ellison being the one in the H-back role for pass protection (I'm not a coach or scout, so maybe you'd switch Ellison and Engram's positions).
Lastly, I think that our goal line set would be awesome to pass out of if you had Ellison/Engram/Tye/Adams on the field at the same time (with one, probably Ellison or Adams lined up as fullback).
I wonder if they'll keep all 4 TEs, because they do all have a roll. I'd be kind of bummed if Tye or Adams was cut. I think they both deserve sports in lieu of a fullback.