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Kurtenbach: "Engram over Njoku = preposterous"

DanMetroMan : 4/28/2017 3:31 pm
23 New York Giants: Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss
Grade: D-

The Giants have enough receivers, they needed a tight end. Engram cannot block — so he is a slot receiver in a tight end's body. While he is a great pass catcher for a man his size, picking him over David Njoku, who is a marginally worse receiver and a significantly better blocker (with the potential to become a really good one down the line) is preposterous.
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man, you guys were on the spot with the Orland Kurtenbach references  
Greg from LI : 4/28/2017 4:07 pm : link
It was as if my dad were here! "See Greg, back then the only tough guy the Rangers had was Orland Kurtenbach...."
When you've lost Dieter Kurtenbach...  
Klaatu : 4/28/2017 4:08 pm : link
You've lost Middle America.

Dieter! Dieter!
Thanks Dan  
Samiam : 4/28/2017 4:08 pm : link
I really would like to know how these football draft experts go about doing their jobs. I would guess that someone in the team front office, if not Reese himself, watched every game Engram played thus year and maybe all his time at Miss. I'll bet somebody talked to his coaches and you have Wonderluc & physical tests at the Combine. I'm sure Kurtenvach watched the Senior Bowl and maybe a bowl game on tv and some YouTube videos
Which skill can be coached up more successfully? And which can't  
WideRight : 4/28/2017 4:08 pm : link
Catching

Blocking
RE: man, you guys were on the spot with the Orland Kurtenbach references  
Big Blue '56 : 4/28/2017 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13449249 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It was as if my dad were here! "See Greg, back then the only tough guy the Rangers had was Orland Kurtenbach...."


Hehe..I think it's the first time I have seen that name since The Ranger F played..
RE: Thanks Dan  
mphbullet36 : 4/28/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13449252 Samiam said:
Quote:
I really would like to know how these football draft experts go about doing their jobs. I would guess that someone in the team front office, if not Reese himself, watched every game Engram played thus year and maybe all his time at Miss. I'll bet somebody talked to his coaches and you have Wonderluc & physical tests at the Combine. I'm sure Kurtenvach watched the Senior Bowl and maybe a bowl game on tv and some YouTube videos


i don't mean to judge but look at a picture of the kid? Does he look like he knows anything about football?
I think two of the main positives that  
phil in arizona : 4/28/2017 4:15 pm : link
Engram has over Njoku are that he holds onto the ball and is already a solid route runner.

Bucky Brooks made a solid point that they don't really have time to wait on a developing somebody a bit more raw.
It wouldn't bother me if Njoku becomes a great TE  
OlyWABigBlue : 4/28/2017 4:17 pm : link
The only thing that is important to me is that Engram is a great TE for the NYG. I get it, comparing the two is natural, but its fodder for the unimportant. Both becoming great in not a mutually exclusive set and by all accounts both are good kids.
I've seen many comparisons of Engram to Jordan Reed  
Greg from LI : 4/28/2017 4:17 pm : link
That's good enough for me.

Hopefully he can stay on the field, unlike Jordan Reed.
Engram = A  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/28/2017 4:23 pm : link
Dieter Kurtenbach = F
Shannon Sharpe on Twitter.  
geemanfan : 4/28/2017 4:24 pm : link
Liked Howard slightly better than Engram. He can be special with Eli and that cast
RE: RE: Thanks Dan  
DonnieD89 : 4/28/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13449263 mphbullet36 said:
Quote:
In comment 13449252 Samiam said:


Quote:


I really would like to know how these football draft experts go about doing their jobs. I would guess that someone in the team front office, if not Reese himself, watched every game Engram played thus year and maybe all his time at Miss. I'll bet somebody talked to his coaches and you have Wonderluc & physical tests at the Combine. I'm sure Kurtenvach watched the Senior Bowl and maybe a bowl game on tv and some YouTube videos



i don't mean to judge but look at a picture of the kid? Does he look like he knows anything about football?


No, he looks like he spends a lot of time in his mom's basement playing video games.
Who gives a shit what this kid says?  
David in LA : 4/28/2017 4:24 pm : link
He's a nobody.
This kid  
PaulBlakeTSU : 4/28/2017 4:31 pm : link
is a hack.

Quote:
Jacksonville Jaguars: Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
Grade: C+

Fournette is a two-down back (an exceptional one, but still) who only fits into a few NFL offenses. Jacksonville is one of them. That said, they missed a good trade-down opportunity that could have improved their team in more than one way.


How on earth does he know that Jacksonville missed a "good trade-down opportunity"? How does he know Jacksonville received offers, or that they didn't try to make a trade? He's talking out of his ass. He then calls the #5 pick a reach but doesn't say they missed a trade opportunity.

The Chiefs get a D for trading up to get their man at QB but the Bears get an A- for trading up to get their man at QB.

And the piece de resistance
Quote:
Indianapolis Colts: Malik Hooker, FS, Ohio State
Grade: A

The Colts could have taken any first-round-graded player except a quarterback and this would have been an A.

Hooker is a first-round graded player who isn't a quarterback.


.  
allstarjim : 4/28/2017 4:36 pm : link
Njoku is no blocker. That's what's preposterous.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/28/2017 4:39 pm : link
.
He graduated from college in 2010.  
TheManUpstairs : 4/28/2017 4:39 pm : link
So, not even 30, probably.
The kid looks like he is 14 years old  
Neckbone1333 : 4/28/2017 4:47 pm : link
BWAHHHHHH
Engram and Njoku are both going to be good nfl tight ends.  
Ira : 4/28/2017 4:52 pm : link
I don't think either one is going to be that much better than the other.
Who's Kurtenbach  
jeff57 : 4/28/2017 4:54 pm : link
?
He gave the Bears an A-  
Giants86 : 4/28/2017 4:57 pm : link
for the Trubitsky pick? Credibility shot in my book....
And he gave Houston an A for Watson  
jeff57 : 4/28/2017 5:03 pm : link
While giving KC a D for Mahomes.
Oh No! Kurtenbach gave us a D-....  
kinard : 4/28/2017 5:08 pm : link
... Yeah, that Reese is such a fuck up. Kurtenbach knows way more than Reese. He writes for Fox Sports (or something like that) after all. All Reese has been doing is watching tape on these guys 24 hours a day for the last 5 months.

Kurtenbach knows way more....

I think a lot of people have misrepresented the blocking situation...  
Giants_West : 4/28/2017 5:09 pm : link
With both Engram and Njoku.

For starters, Njoku isn't a, "significantly better" blocker. He only projects to be and then still only specifically against D-linemen

My observations of Engram and Njoku have been that on tape and in how they were described through the process, they both seem cool with being asked to block as being a primary part of their game. Both look good when when they square up and engage equal/smaller players.

Their biggest concern is also the same, they both wiff on more blocks than you'd like to see and in situations where they put themselves in positions to do better than the result that is there on the film.

Where they differ obviously is in their build and how they project forward over time. That is where my concern with Njoku comes in too, because despite being physically larger in just about every respect he would get tossed around like a rag doll by a number of collegiate defensive linemen. More so even than I noticed with Engram. Possibly because Engram tried to cut a lot more frequently in those situations but realistically Njoku can't be counted on to block bigger players out of the gate any more than Engram can. More to the point it was bad enough that I am not really sure how much 15-20 lbs is really going to help since more of the NFL dls are going to be about that much bigger than they were at the collegiate level likely with more functional strength gain than you could reasonalbly expect from a tight end.

Push comes to shove I probably take Njoku over Engram based on what I like at the position, but the idea that they aren't very close on the board, or that there is an objectively "right" pick between them is rediculous especially if you are making that distinction based solely on projected blocking ability.
Well, if I'm being honest his size does scare me  
Johnny5 : 4/28/2017 5:10 pm : link
Very similar in size/speed to Travis Beckum. He is ranked higher but Travis had a good draft analysis as well. He was not terrible but he did not translate to the NFL well.

I would rather have picked a taller and heavier TE.

But it is encouraging that Sy and Dave like him. So I'll wait and see.
Dieter  
Spyder : 4/28/2017 5:10 pm : link
These reporters are not scouts and  
larryflower37 : 4/28/2017 5:12 pm : link
don't spend the time on film and evaluations that scouts do.
It's a joke.
Dieter looks 12 and is a soccer fan.
He will be writing about another sport next week.

I am more concerned with Sy, Dave Te, and UK Giantsfan opinion.
Not Sure Why Everybody Gets Bent Out of Shape About These Things  
Jim in Tampa : 4/28/2017 5:21 pm : link
Sportswriters are paid to give opinions and this guy gave his. Not everybody has to like the Giants' 1st RD pick and whether he liked or hated the pick, it's not going to have anything to do with Engram's actual performance.
It's fair enough to like either of over the other  
Matt M. : 4/28/2017 5:23 pm : link
But this guy is way off. I haven't seen one comparison of the top 3 TEs that didn't say Engram was a significantly better receiver and pass catCher that the other two. Njoku is not a significantly enter blocker. Better? Probably. But, not by a wide margin.
RE: Well, if I'm being honest his size does scare me  
Giants_West : 4/28/2017 5:31 pm : link
In comment 13449375 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Very similar in size/speed to Travis Beckum. He is ranked higher but Travis had a good draft analysis as well. He was not terrible but he did not translate to the NFL well.

I would rather have picked a taller and heavier TE.

But it is encouraging that Sy and Dave like him. So I'll wait and see.


Travis came in day one and said he wasn't interested in blocking and wasn't interested it being a part of his game, but that he'd do what the coaches wanted. Engram is by leaps and bounds more physical, has a legit football player mentality. Two totally different players.
nice pic  
bc4life : 4/28/2017 5:37 pm : link
looks like what you would get if you mated a beaver with justin bieber
RE: RE: Well, if I'm being honest his size does scare me  
Johnny5 : 4/28/2017 5:40 pm : link
In comment 13449420 Giants_West said:
Quote:

Travis came in day one and said he wasn't interested in blocking and wasn't interested it being a part of his game, but that he'd do what the coaches wanted. Engram is by leaps and bounds more physical, has a legit football player mentality. Two totally different players.


Hmm, ok but even as a pass catcher, Beckum had more yards and catches in his senior year than Engram and everyone was high on him as an HB for us. They are also the same height. Just sayin... lol
Beckham  
bc4life : 4/28/2017 5:44 pm : link
was injured a lot if I remember correctly.
As much as I  
ryanmkeane : 4/28/2017 5:54 pm : link
and most people here liked Njoku, catching was not his strongest suit. Engram has incredible hands. I'm sure Njoku will be a really solid player but with the Eli window we have, we can't afford for a playmaker to be learning how to catch and run.
Who?  
Paulie Walnuts : 4/28/2017 5:56 pm : link
Fuck the hat
Atlanta was hot for Engram  
SHO'NUFF : 4/28/2017 6:06 pm : link
then passed on Njoku...hmmm.
RE: Atlanta was hot for Engram  
Klaatu : 4/28/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13449467 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
then passed on Njoku...hmmm.


And how do you know we wouldn't have passed on Njoku, too, if Engram was gone when we were up?
I don't know, and it's irrelevant  
SHO'NUFF : 4/28/2017 7:07 pm : link
but what is relevant is Atlanta wanted a weapon like Engram and passed on Njoku.

Actually, I did read rumors about Njoku brushing a meeting with us off, so subsequently, we took him off our list.
28 teams passed on Njoku.  
Klaatu : 4/28/2017 7:10 pm : link
And reportedly there was a scheduling conflict with us and Njoku, which is why the visit was cancelled.
Get back to me in 3 years  
Ron Johnson 30 : 4/28/2017 7:18 pm : link
I'm very excited but anything can happen
For me, the puzzling thing about this statement  
81_Great_Dane : 4/28/2017 8:21 pm : link
is that Reese himself said Engram's not a classic TE, he's more of an H-back, and that they drafted him because he's "a weapon."

So this writer is dismissing the pick as "preposterous" because Engram isn't a perfect fit -- for a position the Giants don't mean to play him at, and a role they don't expect to put him in most of the time.

The Giants have been known to try to fit square pegs in round holes before (Ron Dayne as the "Thunder" power back didn't work out so well.) but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

On the other hand, I give the writer credit for a very smart use of the word "preposterous," which comes from a Latin word for "in the wrong order."
asshat comments  
msh : 4/29/2017 5:20 am : link
the giants like thier guys to be smart and better route runners engram was the smarter and better route runner of the 2 ,faster too so they drafted to thier preference simple as that

within the giants system with all the other weapons around him engram will get alot of yards and hopefully alot of redzone points to boot he was more nfl ready than njoku the giants covet that attribute especially in the first and second rounds

too many people in the draft "expert" game make thier picks then criticize teams for not sharing thier scouting assessments. reese's early drafts were gang busters then they hit a bad patch were they reached for positions,drafted first round guys with injuries and relatives of successful nfl players and the drafts were ineffectual the last 2 or 3 drafts have been very good the last one was one of his best

they came out of the first 3 picks with 2 vital picks a move TE bbi has been screaming for for years,a day 1 starter at DT/NT to replace hankins and a QB they will try and develop to eventually replace eli in a few years at least they are making plans not giving up half a draft on an unknown commodity like cleveland and chicago has done
'preposterous'...  
Torrag : 4/29/2017 8:24 am : link
...after all the talk about Njoku 'blowing up the Combine' Engram had the better workout.

Engrams production dwarfs Njoku's and it isn't close.

Engram has the better hands when comparing drop rates.

Preposterous? I don't think he knows what the word means. Terrible analysis influenced by his personal bias for one player.



Its a well known fact that the Giants were only one of the 32 teams  
Jimmy Googs : 4/29/2017 9:06 am : link
that coveted Engram.

Ask the beats...
Watched a lot of Njoku and like him, but he's going to be a project  
Eric on Li : 4/29/2017 9:15 am : link
both as a route runner and as a blocker. Physically he's obviously impressive, but so is Engram albeit in different ways. I'd have been happy with either play but I think it's a no-brainer that Engram is a more polished route runner day 1.
I'm just happy we got One  
Bluesbreaker : 4/29/2017 7:19 pm : link
Tired of the position being a joke ....
I hope that Engram comes out of the gate strong and agree he
is more ready to contribute . I wanted Njoku no complaints.
RE: Well, if I'm being honest his size does scare me  
Mike in Boston : 4/29/2017 10:11 pm : link
In comment 13449375 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Very similar in size/speed to Travis Beckum. He is ranked higher but Travis had a good draft analysis as well. He was not terrible but he did not translate to the NFL well.

I would rather have picked a taller and heavier TE.

But it is encouraging that Sy and Dave like him. So I'll wait and see.


Size yes. Speed, no.
Njoku is probably slightly better as a blocker,  
Section331 : 4/29/2017 10:15 pm : link
but they are not in the same universe as receivers.
The next Greg Rosenthal...  
Matt G : 4/30/2017 9:19 am : link
Another know nothing self proclaimed expert who looks like he's never been closer than the sidelines in any athletic endeavor... Deserves about as much credence as an ass pimple...
Dieter Kurtenbach has made himself into a bbi joke  
Ira : 4/30/2017 9:25 am : link
for a long time to come.
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