Very few DTs have gone so far, so we really had our pick. Hope we picked right, obviously he's the guy they liked and he should do a good job of plugging a Hank sized hole. We've done well in the 2nd with Dts.
Summary: Fifth year senior. Tore one ACL in 2011 and the other in 2013. One year of starting experience for the Tide, but has been a steady rotational contributor since 2014. Tomlinson is not your average kid off the field. He’s been through more adversity than most, losing both parents before he turned 18. He is very accomplished in the classroom and actually had an opportunity to go to Harvard, but chose Alabama instead. The former three-time state champion wrestler has the ideal size and power to play inside in any scheme. While he may be limited, his ability to control inside gaps will be there right away.
*One of the more interesting and impressive kids in the class when it comes to the off the field story. Tomlinson doesn’t have standout physical traits but you know you are getting a guy that will get the job done. While he is a different sized player than Linval Joseph, I feel he will have a similar impact early in his career. Just a reliable presence inside that makes guys around him better with the potential to blossom in to more. Really watch some Alabama tape and you’ll see him do things you didn’t think he could do. 2nd round is where I strongly consider him.
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
His last ACL was 2013. Since then: Tomlinson played end in 14 games as a reserve in 2014 (22 tackles, 5.5 for loss, two sacks) and as the top back-up for the 2015 national champions (34 tackles, six pass breakups).
He had his best season statistically for the Tide as a senior (62 stops, 5.5 TFL, three sacks, four PBU) as Nick Saban used him inside and outside on the team's multiple-look defense.
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
Looking at my 'Giants only' draft board for the second round I have removed TE Gerald Everett from it as we know longer need help at that position. That still leaves the Giants with the following players to select from:
T/G Dion Dawkins, Temple
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
His ACL was a long time ago. Been playing on that knee, several seasons
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
The ACLs were in opposite knees. Not the same knee. The last one was also in 2013. I still think it's too much of a risk in the second round, but perhaps that is too disqualifying.
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
His last ACL was 2013. Since then: Tomlinson played end in 14 games as a reserve in 2014 (22 tackles, 5.5 for loss, two sacks) and as the top back-up for the 2015 national champions (34 tackles, six pass breakups).
He had his best season statistically for the Tide as a senior (62 stops, 5.5 TFL, three sacks, four PBU) as Nick Saban used him inside and outside on the team's multiple-look defense.
So what? You don't risk second round capital on it, talent and when it happened is almost irrelevant. He is one injury away from probably being done. Not an optimal decision, imo.
Kirk Herbstreit
(@KirkHerbstreit)
My "steals" for the draft are Ryan Anderson-Joe Mixon-Jordan Leggett-A.Kamara-Dalvin Tomlinson-Zach Cunningham-Curtis Samuel-DeMarcus Walker
Thought it would be Wormley who i am not as high on. Wormley played mainly DE in a 4-3. Tomlinson playing in a 3-4 played NT, DT, DE ... love it. He is a great wrestler also which i love also. Dont mess with him!
You know what you are getting. Fills the gaping hole at DT...may be starting week 1.
Limited guy but not a reach by any means...he wouldn't have been there in round 3.
I guess that's what I mean, Sy. "Limited" s a good word for him; not a pass rusher by any means, and not as good as Hankins. But fills a need. We'll still be really tough to run on.
Meanwhile, we have 3 FA on the OL next year. Unfortunately, we have Jerry, Hart and Flowers to man the fort. I wonder if Eli can work on his release to perhaps 1.5 seconds? Like a game of hot potato - just allow the football to ricochet off his hands.
First, I hate we have to draft a player to,replace a player we could have signed.
Second, two ACL on same knee. Really?
Third, you mean to tell me there is no OT available halfway decent?
I just don't feel warm and fuzzy like I did last night.
I trust the Giants brain trust to get good value. That's not something they have messed up this early in the draft. Round 2 had a number of DTs that could have been picked around this point. I'll take guys from this program any time.
2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
His last ACL was 2013. Since then: Tomlinson played end in 14 games as a reserve in 2014 (22 tackles, 5.5 for loss, two sacks) and as the top back-up for the 2015 national champions (34 tackles, six pass breakups).
He had his best season statistically for the Tide as a senior (62 stops, 5.5 TFL, three sacks, four PBU) as Nick Saban used him inside and outside on the team's multiple-look defense.
So what? You don't risk second round capital on it, talent and when it happened is almost irrelevant. He is one injury away from probably being done. Not an optimal decision, imo.
It's not 'so what'. He's a defensive lineman, not a wide receiver. It's potentially as irrelevant as 40 times for defensive tackles.
I think of Mcdowell as more of a DE, so maybe that's 5th best DT, for DT, right ahead of my own pick for second round prior to first round of actual draft, Montravious Adams.
Slightly shorter, if healthy, possibly slightly more reliable as a plugger, interior piece, lower set, whereas Adams has an interesting play making upside visa vis batted passes and fumbles recovered etc, length and direction change.
But I will take it -if healthy- good logic here, to not waste the opportunity of existing DL talents.
The Giants get big run stuffing DT's because they don't want anyone to run on them due to not having good linebackers and because Reese doesn't like drafting Quality linebackers..? Wow ok. Good strategy..
I love a bunch of guys on a message board talking about value Â
What is it that you people don't understand about the salary cap?
Do you think we just like picking DTs over and over again, or just not realize that you can't pay a guy like Hankins $10M/yr for what he brought to the table instead of replacing him with a cheap 2nd round pick?
he looks like a good replacement for Hankins. Happy to get that because we were solid last year against the run. Big body space eater to help Snacks collapse the pocket and bring pressure up the middle like last year. Three techniques are hard to find outside the top 15 picks in the draft.
RE: The Giants waited about 30 seconds before Harry Carson Â
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
I can't say I was even remotely thinking about him as the pick. If he can line up over the nose, he might be the depth we need for Snacks... can't have him playing that same ridiculous amount of snaps.
Yeah, Reb. I too feel it's a bit of a waste of resources. Â
You are going to battle Dallas for the division. You need run stuffing DT's. This guy was a decorated wrestler who knows leverage. He is not going ot be moved around. Like the pick
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
You can't keep all your players. Your losses have to come from somewhere.
you're going to overpay for the guys who fill those holes.
The Giants are behaving like a good team in that respect, arguably leaving better players on the board to fill needs, and taking their guys "early." Off an 11-win season, I can understand their thinking. Let's hope they're right.
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
So you would have paid Hankins $11m/per to keep him.
He's a solid player who fills a need. He's nothing to get excited about, but he will stuff the run and make it difficult for qb's to step up into the pocket.
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
I was excited about the pick and then I read the comments above. SMH
Some people are unhappy with everything.
The guy started for Nick Saban on a top 2 team. He fills precisely the role Hankins had for about $8.5m less. Yes, he had injury issues three years ago, but no one is going to care about how an ACL robs a defensive tackle of running speed or vertical leap.
He’s a consistent and reliable tackler. Pro Football Focus says Tomlinson missed a total of three tackles over his entire college career, which is incredible. He’s a tough run stopper, but he’s underrated in terms of getting pressure on opposing quarterbacks.
His sack numbers aren’t gaudy. He had just three sacks over his three seasons at Bama. But he managed to rack up 70 quarterback hurries over that span, which is significant. Link - ( New Window )
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Ok then. But you don't have to keep investing 2nd rounders if you employ this strategy. I'm sorry I just have a different view on this and I know I'm not the only one
Every single guy that hates this pick are the same negative SOBs that hate everything Reese does. The same cast of characters. It must really suck to go through life so miserably. Good lord man.
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Ok then. But you don't have to keep investing 2nd rounders if you employ this strategy. I'm sorry I just have a different view on this and I know I'm not the only one
So, what do you propose they do? Spend later round picks on DT's who are much less likely to be starting-caliber players and contribute?
watch some of the video on youtube. guy hustles all the time, usually takes up two blockers, almost impossible for one guy to move him, good at keeping guys off his legs...
go watch the tape and come back and tell us what you don't like.
only thing he does consistently well in that area is bull rush. but he moves pretty well. against wisconsin rushed the passer than ran up and made a tackle on received 15 yards down the field.
outside of the injuries which are pretty far removed, I don't see the reason for hating this pick
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Another DT who won't be on the team Â
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Ok then. But you don't have to keep investing 2nd rounders if you employ this strategy. I'm sorry I just have a different view on this and I know I'm not the only one
So, what do you propose they do? Spend later round picks on DT's who are much less likely to be starting-caliber players and contribute?
Then what?
But it's ok to spend later round picks on other positions of need in other drafts on players that are "much less likely to be starting caliber players and contribute?"
and replace Hankins. His ACLs were years ago so the player they are getting they saw last year. All players are an injury away from being done. I trust they did their homework and feel this is the right guy for them. He's not a "talent" risk pick like Austin was. That's two big holes filled. Hopefully OL is next.
Thanks Ryan that was great. He seems like a great person and I can't think of another activity outside of football that would compliment his DL play then wrestling.
ACLS? Who gives a shit ... He is not a WR or DB. He is a DL for chrisakes. Like someone said above, He has played 3 full seasons since his last one.
Yes, he had injury issues three years ago, but no one is going to care about how an ACL robs a defensive tackle of running speed or vertical leap.
When asked about the really slow 40 yard time he had one year at camp, George Martin replied, "If I have to run 40 yards to tackle guys, we're not winning too many games anyway."
He's a solid player who fills a need. He's nothing to get excited about, but he will stuff the run and make it difficult for qb's to step up into the pocket.
... so he's pretty much everything you want in a defensive tackle?
Does not play like an NFL player. Can't engage and shed, instantly swallowed, painfully slow/lacks quick twitch, I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong, I don't have a trained eye by any stretch, but wow am I disappointed by this pick. Would have MUCH rather had Wormley if they are gonna go DT. Bummed. More bummed that Walker went 3 picks before us.
First, I hate we have to draft a player to,replace a player we could have signed.
Second, two ACL on same knee. Really?
Third, you mean to tell me there is no OT available halfway decent?
I just don't feel warm and fuzzy like I did last night.
"....we could have signed...." but wouldn't it have been for a lot more money?
JR seems to be able to continue to replace that position at reasonable salaries.
Tomlinson also seems more flexible than Hanks based on his Alabama experience (a 1 tech who can also play some 3 tech and DE). Spags likes to move his guys around.
We're getting a 3rd round pick for Hankins next year, plus saving ~8-9m/year against the cap. The Giants are playing this perfectly.
Think of it this way...we brought in Snacks as an outside free agent last year for zero draft equity. We let Hankins walk for a larger contract that will net us a 3rd round pick. Tomlinsons 2nd round contract + Snacks deal last year roughly equals what Hankins got in Free Agency. In essence we traded Hankins and a 2017 2nd round pick for Snack, Tomlinson and a 2018 3rd round pick. Looks fair to me.
RE: The Giants waited about 30 seconds before Harry Carson Â
announced the pick, so the Giants must really like him.
This guy is a very good football player and was three-time State Wrestling Champion in High School. Forget the medical history from 3-4 years ago. He's going to start alongside Snacks from day one playing the 3-technique DT spot in our 4-3 defense. And, STOP with all the nonsense bringing up replacing Hankins already! Hankins is a 1-technique NT who can't get to the QB. This kid Tomlinson can! And, like most Alabama DT's to come out of Nick Saban's NFL stable, he's disruptive to shoot the gaps, can twist and stunt, and also play the run.
Forget Hankins, he's gone and was NOT a good fit in our D after we brought in Snacks last year!
was listening to the pick on Sirius NFL radio in the car Â
But it's ok to spend later round picks on other positions of need in other drafts on players that are "much less likely to be starting caliber players and contribute?"
I'm not really sure what you want them to do. Who did you want them to draft instead? DT was a legitimate need now that Hankins is gone and there was a good player there who filled that need so we took him.
Should we have forced a pick at another position even if the value wasn't there?
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Does not play like an NFL player. Can't engage and shed, instantly swallowed, painfully slow/lacks quick twitch, I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong, I don't have a trained eye by any stretch, but wow am I disappointed by this pick. Would have MUCH rather had Wormley if they are gonna go DT. Bummed. More bummed that Walker went 3 picks before us.
Boo hoo. Those with a "trained eye" love him. Plug and play Hankins fill in for a fraction of the cost
2 impact players in 1st 2 rounds ... this is a good thing.
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Does not play like an NFL player. Can't engage and shed, instantly swallowed, painfully slow/lacks quick twitch, I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong, I don't have a trained eye by any stretch, but wow am I disappointed by this pick. Would have MUCH rather had Wormley if they are gonna go DT. Bummed. More bummed that Walker went 3 picks before us.
Have you ever played DT? Have you ever coached DL?
Nope. Didn't think so. You sound ridiculous with all due respect.
Setting the tone that we cant be run on gives the D a proud identity and eventually demoralizes the other team.
In our division that is especially true.
In our division, where December games in open roof, windy Met Life are against division rivals; stopping the run is hard nosed essential.
Love the pick.
And if I was watching the Giants I would be much more concerned about Hankins declining play in a contract year when he played next to Snacks on a line with OV and JPP. What is with that mystery?
Rather a guy determined to make it happen then a guy who alligator armed in a year when it mattered.
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Agreed, arc. Now we need O,line and CB.
Thank you! At least someone is doing their homework. 70 QB hurries as a rotational DT at Alabama that churns out defensive lineman like nobody's business! This kid can play and Giants fans are going to love him!
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
except he does, but otherwise great point. Feel free to become a Jets fan.
How so? Listen I want be wrong, and if you're more knowledgeable about him, explain, no need to be a dick.
From what I've seen, he's a product of the players around him getting there. Consistently the 2nd or 3rd hit, can't get off blocks, his stunts are alright but he doesn't have the speed or quick twitch (to my untrained eye) to be able to execute at an NFL level. I just don't see it with this guy. Intangibles don't = talent.
Again, I don't claim to be a know it all, just a fan, but I'm not excited about the pick. If you wanna share what makes you excited about the pick in reference to his pass rush capabilities, I really would like to hear them. Like I said, no need for the nastiness.
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
Excepting of course that 4yrs ago the Giants had a historically bad defense.
Does not play like an NFL player. Can't engage and shed, instantly swallowed, painfully slow/lacks quick twitch, I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong, I don't have a trained eye by any stretch, but wow am I disappointed by this pick. Would have MUCH rather had Wormley if they are gonna go DT. Bummed. More bummed that Walker went 3 picks before us.
Have you ever played DT? Have you ever coached DL?
Nope. Didn't think so. You sound ridiculous with all due respect.
Certainly never have claimed to. In fact, most of my posts I preface with the fact I don't have the prowess of anything near a scout, or anything of that nature. I just don't see the qualities I would have liked in a DT. I don't understand the vitriol.
We really need an OT, and the top tier of guys who might turn out to be year 1 starters seemed to be gone early in the 2nd...in a deep year, would it be worth it to try to trade up, and what would it cost? Or would it be better to have skipped TE in favor of an OL in 1st (any except Bolles at that point), but several TE's went between our 1st and 2nd. Engram likely would be gone, and several other options.
I'm guessing the Giants weren't overly impressed with this OT class, and we really should be OK on the OL interior. We need OT help, but they haven't given up on Flowers yet, and him improving really is our best hope, and certainly possible. Maybe they hit with Fluker at RT, or Hart develops. Maybe they feel like there's a guy in the next tier that they can grab in the 3rd, who is maybe not a huge drop from the top tier, who all had questions this year (injury, playing time, production/consistency, etc). But they can't make a guy appear if he isn't there this year, they can't always find a trade down (tho certainly possible they had more chances than we know about), and we don't know how they have these guys rated - it's always funny when I see 'They could have had him X picks later, should've traded down' - never a guarantee, and if you like the guys better to pull the trigger.
Here's hoping these are good picks, they pan out and contribute next year, and help keep our D playing like the 2nd half and help our O look more like 2 years agon than last year (when we didn't have a great OL either, but managed some rushing). I'd love to see them add an OT, and a RB to complement Perkins, but can't complain about the positions addressed so far, and I won't claim to know which guys will be good or who would have been picked when...
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Again, from what I've seen, albeit limited to less than a season worth of his games, a lot of his production as far as pass rush goes seems to have been a product of who he's playing with as opposed to his own ability.
I'm happy to defer to those who know more, and would be ecstatic to be wrong. God knows I have been before. I just don't see "it" as a pass rusher/pressure up the middle. He looks like he'll be a good contributor as far as playing the run goes, but I fear he's another 2 down DT is all.
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Again, from what I've seen, albeit limited to less than a season worth of his games, a lot of his production as far as pass rush goes seems to have been a product of who he's playing with as opposed to his own ability.
I'm happy to defer to those who know more, and would be ecstatic to be wrong. God knows I have been before. I just don't see "it" as a pass rusher/pressure up the middle. He looks like he'll be a good contributor as far as playing the run goes, but I fear he's another 2 down DT is all.
This would have been a completely reasonable reaction to the pick to begin with - but instead, you basically threw up your arms and acted like Reese traded away an entire draft for a kicker.
Tomlinson is going to pair well with Harrison. He's not Aaron Donald but he doesn't need to be. This team created a run stuffing identity last year and it's important to retain that strength. Tomlinson allows us to do that. He can play on passing downs. He's not going to put up sack numbers but he does get penetration from time to time and can push the pocket.
I'm not a scout and I don't know as much as guys like Dave or Sy but I do root for Alabama and watch all of their games and I can assure you that DT is a good player and will be a good fit for our defense.
He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Again, from what I've seen, albeit limited to less than a season worth of his games, a lot of his production as far as pass rush goes seems to have been a product of who he's playing with as opposed to his own ability.
I'm happy to defer to those who know more, and would be ecstatic to be wrong. God knows I have been before. I just don't see "it" as a pass rusher/pressure up the middle. He looks like he'll be a good contributor as far as playing the run goes, but I fear he's another 2 down DT is all.
This would have been a completely reasonable reaction to the pick to begin with - but instead, you basically threw up your arms and acted like Reese traded away an entire draft for a kicker.
Tomlinson is going to pair well with Harrison. He's not Aaron Donald but he doesn't need to be. This team created a run stuffing identity last year and it's important to retain that strength. Tomlinson allows us to do that. He can play on passing downs. He's not going to put up sack numbers but he does get penetration from time to time and can push the pocket.
I'm not a scout and I don't know as much as guys like Dave or Sy but I do root for Alabama and watch all of their games and I can assure you that DT is a good player and will be a good fit for our defense.
Fair enough, definitely a knee jerk reaction on my part. Simply put, I personally don't see what I wanted for this defense from this player at this position. He's a Giant, I'm gonna root my ass off for him, and hope that you're right and I'm wrong.
I hope he enjoys his limited time in NY before moving on for his second contract.
Dumber comments the later it gets. People actually believe the Giants are drsfting players in the second round because on 2 games per year. Games they swept last year.
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push, even when single teamed. What do you see in this video that excites you? I ask that genuinely, not to be an ass. Link - ( New Window )
more and more. Look, say what you want about the flashy guys or the guys considered to have more talent. You need to bring effort every Sunday to be a starter in this league and this guy not only has talent, but you can tell he's gonna be a Harrison type effort guy every play. Remember, first 2 rounds we need guys with really high floors. Won't have to worry about this guy getting his shit pushed in by anyone out there. Love it. Oh, and we have like, no good DTs besides Harrison. If we went DT in round 1 that would have been more than justified.
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Another DT who won't be on the team Â
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
What do you know about the cap. Under the new CBA, I guess you didn't notice, the league has increased the cap by 10 to 12 million the last four years. Except for Dallas, teams re-signed almost all of their core free agents.
You pay another couple of million to keep Hankins, who you know is a good player, and use your 2nd round pick to upgrade a much-needed-position. There's no assurance that Tomlinson will be as good as Joseph or Hankins. And there's the two ACLs.
Jerry just doesn't do the draft well. Another opinion
In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
What do you know about the cap. Under the new CBA, I guess you didn't notice, the league has increased the cap by 10 to 12 million the last four years. Except for Dallas, teams re-signed almost all of their core free agents.
You pay another couple of million to keep Hankins, who you know is a good player, and use your 2nd round pick to upgrade a much-needed-position. There's no assurance that Tomlinson will be as good as Joseph or Hankins. And there's the two ACLs.
Jerry just doesn't do the draft well. Another opinion Jordan: Jerry blows it again. - ( New Window )
My opinion is that you don't really know what you're talking about. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not all opinions are created equal, or hold equal weight. It would have been an outrageous allocation of dollars towards one position group given what we paid Snacks and what Hankins wanted. You do realize we need to earmark extra money for OBJ's eventual extension, and guys like Richburg and Pugh up next at the feeding table, right?
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
Colin, how's the middle of the defense look if Snacks gets dinged up? Â
If something happens to him, we can move him to nose.
Plus, we play the best running offense twice a season. And with how good our secondary is, we can trust our line to shut down the run and have our secondary guys causing mayhem on the backend making plays.
Sy56 & Dave in the first Podcast nailed it with our first pick Â
Sy56 nailed it with Tomlinson, now granted he said to us in the 3rd it’s a great pick and had Engram as the possible 23rd for us as well. Kudo’s to Sy & Dave you are both awesome.
IMO he is an upgrade from big Hank at least I hope so.
'Yikes not 1 but 2 ACL tears micky : 4/28/2017 10:12 pm'... Â
Tore 1 as a senior in high school playing soccer. The other in 2013 at 'Bama. Has since played in 33 consecutive games over 3 seasons. So the knees have passed muster by the docs and the real test, playing ball.
The Giants said they needed another guy like Hankins, despite what you think they took the guy they thought they needed. If Snacks got hurt then where do we turn for his position? You guys are just mad because you can't brag, LOL, what fucking babies, I have grand daughter's more grown up then some of you. Complain if the player don't work out, but he is a Giant now you opinions are worthless, so either be a fan or shut up. These mocks and all this draft predictions have gone way over the top now.
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
What if Snacks gets hurt? Then you have a big weakness at DT. We really needed one and Tomlinson looked really good in college
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
A redundancy that worked to great effect. One could argue the defense was built around being able to hold teams down in the run game. By drafting Tomlinson, it tells me that that's exactly what they wanted. Maybe after years of striking out, they've decided to stop looking for that pass rushing DT that's been their white whale. They certainly had their pick of any number of known pass rush DT prospects at the third pick and left them on the table.
because of the players around him remember that a lot of people were claiming that Damon Harrison was only good because he played between Shelden Richardson and Muhammad Wilkerson.
''A redundancy that worked to great effect. One could argue the defense was built around being able to hold teams down in the run game. By drafting Tomlinson, it tells me that that's exactly what they wanted. Maybe after years of striking out, they've decided to stop looking for that pass rushing DT that's been their white whale. They certainly had their pick of any number of known pass rush DT prospects at the third pick and left them on the table.''
In addition, when you field 4 players who can hold up, you gain the luxury of changing up gap assignments to a certain degree. Whereas with even one 'skinny' type, your options are forced.
Any of the bigs can get sacks when its their turn.
Also, JPP, Vernon, Wynn and Okwara can rotate into interior on occasion, and LBs and safeties are available at times.
because of the players around him remember that a lot of people were claiming that Damon Harrison was only good because he played between Shelden Richardson and Muhammad Wilkerson.
things that I saw in DT M. Adams that reminded me of what I liked in Hank, coming into his own draft:
For a tall DT you need to double check 'plays with enough leverage', check.
Tall DT - 'can he get horizontal to extend his range of plays, taking advantage of length' and 'just enough change of direction with that horizontal move to have a broader radius of tackling than otherwise?' Check.
To explain this one, draw a circle around a players feet and roughly indicate tackling radius. Why I did NOT like DT E. Quarles, for example, failed this part, stays on his feet some player runs right by him.
With Adams, passes batted down and fumbles recovered, indicate things that are otherwise hard to measure - and cinched it.
As I said, I like the DT pick, but will see for shits and kicks if Adams' career pans out as well as Hanks' has.
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
A redundancy that worked to great effect. One could argue the defense was built around being able to hold teams down in the run game. By drafting Tomlinson, it tells me that that's exactly what they wanted. Maybe after years of striking out, they've decided to stop looking for that pass rushing DT that's been their white whale. They certainly had their pick of any number of known pass rush DT prospects at the third pick and left them on the table.
If your argument is that you wanted the Giants to draft a second NT, that's one thing. I got attacked, and called a moron in so many words, because I said he's not someone who has the tools to generate pressure up the gut, which is what this team has been lacking.
One could also argue that our 3 biggest issues coming out of last year will remain the same going into next: the OL, the pass rush, and the LB corp. I think my initial comment sounded like I was condemning the player, I'm not. I'm just disappointed in the direction the team is taking.
Incredibly high character guy, too
Link - ( New Window )
Two ACL surgeries or two ACLs? :)
Feels so good when your team drafts who you actually love
Perfect draft so far
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I was surprised we'd take someone with two ACLs, but he's a player.
Two ACL surgeries or two ACLs? :)
Now he's got like four ACLs.
Don't see it as that big of an issue at all
Stop it..
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In comment 13450221 yatqb said:
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I was surprised we'd take someone with two ACLs, but he's a player.
Two ACL surgeries or two ACLs? :)
Now he's got like four ACLs.
was that him with the beard and the cane announcing the Browns' pick?
Summary: Fifth year senior. Tore one ACL in 2011 and the other in 2013. One year of starting experience for the Tide, but has been a steady rotational contributor since 2014. Tomlinson is not your average kid off the field. He’s been through more adversity than most, losing both parents before he turned 18. He is very accomplished in the classroom and actually had an opportunity to go to Harvard, but chose Alabama instead. The former three-time state champion wrestler has the ideal size and power to play inside in any scheme. While he may be limited, his ability to control inside gaps will be there right away.
*One of the more interesting and impressive kids in the class when it comes to the off the field story. Tomlinson doesn’t have standout physical traits but you know you are getting a guy that will get the job done. While he is a different sized player than Linval Joseph, I feel he will have a similar impact early in his career. Just a reliable presence inside that makes guys around him better with the potential to blossom in to more. Really watch some Alabama tape and you’ll see him do things you didn’t think he could do. 2nd round is where I strongly consider him.
Upside Pro Comparison: Ahtyba Rubin – SEA
Not a 3 tech. Run stopper.
Yup. He and I both got into Harvard and were offered at 'Bama. Except Saban wanted nothing to do with me.
Solid kid. Great pick.
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Does not appear so from the limited writeups I have seen so far. Seems like a strong run stopper?
Not a 3 tech. Run stopper.
that is a disappointment. wanted 3 tech.
What a terrible GM..
JR is predictable in that way.
You did drop the mic, yes?
That's how I feel.
Limited guy but not a reach by any means...he wouldn't have been there in round 3.
Wormleys a good player, but for a DT, Tomlinson is the better option, especially against a team like Dallas.
LOL! Get the fuck out of here
I hope he enjoys his limited time in NY before moving on for his second contract.
Link - ( New Window )
Enhances a strength of the team, solidifies the D without opening up a can of worms regarding the back 7.
Nice.
Not skinny at all! ;-)
His last ACL was 2013. Since then: Tomlinson played end in 14 games as a reserve in 2014 (22 tackles, 5.5 for loss, two sacks) and as the top back-up for the 2015 national champions (34 tackles, six pass breakups).
He had his best season statistically for the Tide as a senior (62 stops, 5.5 TFL, three sacks, four PBU) as Nick Saban used him inside and outside on the team's multiple-look defense.
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Wormley seems more intriguing.
Wormleys a good player, but for a DT, Tomlinson is the better option, especially against a team like Dallas.
Wormley' best fit might be as a 5-tech.
they both were not on the same knee
Looking at my 'Giants only' draft board for the second round I have removed TE Gerald Everett from it as we know longer need help at that position. That still leaves the Giants with the following players to select from:
T/G Dion Dawkins, Temple
T/G Taylor Moton, Western Michigan
DE/OLB Derek Rivers, Youngstown State
DE/DT Chris Wormley, Michigan
DE Tarell Basham, Ohio
DT Dalvin Tomlinson, Alabama
His ACL was a long time ago. Been playing on that knee, several seasons
The ACLs were in opposite knees. Not the same knee. The last one was also in 2013. I still think it's too much of a risk in the second round, but perhaps that is too disqualifying.
I think he'll get plenty of playing time right away.
Yeah, awful
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2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
His last ACL was 2013. Since then: Tomlinson played end in 14 games as a reserve in 2014 (22 tackles, 5.5 for loss, two sacks) and as the top back-up for the 2015 national champions (34 tackles, six pass breakups).
He had his best season statistically for the Tide as a senior (62 stops, 5.5 TFL, three sacks, four PBU) as Nick Saban used him inside and outside on the team's multiple-look defense.
So what? You don't risk second round capital on it, talent and when it happened is almost irrelevant. He is one injury away from probably being done. Not an optimal decision, imo.
Two ACL surgeries? Both knees or same knee?
(@KirkHerbstreit)
My "steals" for the draft are Ryan Anderson-Joe Mixon-Jordan Leggett-A.Kamara-Dalvin Tomlinson-Zach Cunningham-Curtis Samuel-DeMarcus Walker
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Can provide pass rush from interior. Good pick except worry about the two ACL
.
Two ACL surgeries? Both knees or same knee?
Left in highschool and right in spring 2014. No issues since
...good player.
But there was better value on the Board.
BBI at it's best
Limited guy but not a reach by any means...he wouldn't have been there in round 3.
I guess that's what I mean, Sy. "Limited" s a good word for him; not a pass rusher by any means, and not as good as Hankins. But fills a need. We'll still be really tough to run on.
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In comment 13450313 Mike B from JC said:
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Can provide pass rush from interior. Good pick except worry about the two ACL
.
Two ACL surgeries? Both knees or same knee?
Left in highschool and right in spring 2014. No issues since
Okay.
Just heard Riddick and Gil Brandt say the exact opposite. That he's the perfect guy to go beside him
...good player.
But there was better value on the Board.
JFC, every fan of every team says the same thing
...good player.
But there was better value on the Board.
Giants have so many needs that BPA will likely be a need position
Meanwhile, we have 3 FA on the OL next year. Unfortunately, we have Jerry, Hart and Flowers to man the fort. I wonder if Eli can work on his release to perhaps 1.5 seconds? Like a game of hot potato - just allow the football to ricochet off his hands.
Second, two ACL on same knee. Really?
Third, you mean to tell me there is no OT available halfway decent?
I just don't feel warm and fuzzy like I did last night.
HA!!!
If you trust the giants ability to hit on the top line guys they really like- they you should trust this pick.
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In comment 13450316 Essex said:
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2 ACLs. Forget the likelihood that he will reinjure it, isn't there like only 3 guys who ever came back from a 3rd. It is a 7th round flier, not a second round pick. Really disappointed
His last ACL was 2013. Since then: Tomlinson played end in 14 games as a reserve in 2014 (22 tackles, 5.5 for loss, two sacks) and as the top back-up for the 2015 national champions (34 tackles, six pass breakups).
He had his best season statistically for the Tide as a senior (62 stops, 5.5 TFL, three sacks, four PBU) as Nick Saban used him inside and outside on the team's multiple-look defense.
So what? You don't risk second round capital on it, talent and when it happened is almost irrelevant. He is one injury away from probably being done. Not an optimal decision, imo.
It's not 'so what'. He's a defensive lineman, not a wide receiver. It's potentially as irrelevant as 40 times for defensive tackles.
This is completely false.
...good player.
But there was better value on the Board.
So what. They need to WIN NOW. With Eli
Slightly shorter, if healthy, possibly slightly more reliable as a plugger, interior piece, lower set, whereas Adams has an interesting play making upside visa vis batted passes and fumbles recovered etc, length and direction change.
But I will take it -if healthy- good logic here, to not waste the opportunity of existing DL talents.
Guy hasn't been injured since 14. lol
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
have you heard anything like that?
Meanwhile both NFL Network and ESPN guys loved the pick. Most draft pundits on twitter love the pick.
But some BBIers didn't think it was good value because a bunch of no-nothing 'mock drafters' on various sites didn't have him going this early
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I liked Wormley, Watkins, Jaleel Johnson, Eddie Vanderdoes, Larry Ogunjobi and Montravius Adams more than Tomlinson.
Do you think we just like picking DTs over and over again, or just not realize that you can't pay a guy like Hankins $10M/yr for what he brought to the table instead of replacing him with a cheap 2nd round pick?
McAdoo and Reese both start by saying Tomlinson is NFL ready.
Reuben Randle flashbacks...lol
have you heard anything like that?
I posted earlier after you mentioned
Absolutely not
have you heard anything like that?
He responded yesterday to you - said Harris was not in the conversation - so your info doesn't look good
Tomlinson not here to do their taxes - ( New Window )
Probably true
We had to get a DT that we can play this year. So, it was a good pick in my eyes.
Plus a stud wrestler and it sounds like a great kid. I'm happy to have him on the Giants.
How do you know that?
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
in addition, this benefits the linebackers, particularly the quicker smaller ones,
in addition, if you want to go with extra d backs and even a 5-0-6, you need serious DTs up front to keep your Dbacks clean
again, I had Adams right here, but cannot argue the logic at all.
Tomlinson the bad ass - ( New Window )
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
You can't keep all your players. Your losses have to come from somewhere.
The Giants are behaving like a good team in that respect, arguably leaving better players on the board to fill needs, and taking their guys "early." Off an 11-win season, I can understand their thinking. Let's hope they're right.
Also, count me in as one of the guys that hate finding out about the pick on BBI, before Miami even announces their pick.
And before you say it...yes I know that I should just STFU and leave the site.
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
So you would have paid Hankins $11m/per to keep him.
Love it
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Love it
That's great.
DE Jordan Willis
CB/FS Desmond King
CB Rasul Douglas
CB Fabian Moreau
CB Cordrea Tankersley
RB Alvin Kamara
RB D'Onta Foreman
RB Samaje Perine
RB Kareem Hunt
RB Marlon Mack
RB Jeremy McNichols
Some people are unhappy with everything.
The guy started for Nick Saban on a top 2 team. He fills precisely the role Hankins had for about $8.5m less. Yes, he had injury issues three years ago, but no one is going to care about how an ACL robs a defensive tackle of running speed or vertical leap.
Love it
Snacks is already up there as one of my all time favorite Giants.
In the grand scheme of things, DT is generally a position you are not busting the bank for.
I love HitDog
His sack numbers aren’t gaudy. He had just three sacks over his three seasons at Bama. But he managed to rack up 70 quarterback hurries over that span, which is significant.
Link - ( New Window )
Love it
Snacks has become my favorite Giant.
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In comment 13450402 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Ok then. But you don't have to keep investing 2nd rounders if you employ this strategy. I'm sorry I just have a different view on this and I know I'm not the only one
I'm really surprised they left Wormley on the board there, I thought they'd love that kid.
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In comment 13450435 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13450402 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Ok then. But you don't have to keep investing 2nd rounders if you employ this strategy. I'm sorry I just have a different view on this and I know I'm not the only one
So, what do you propose they do? Spend later round picks on DT's who are much less likely to be starting-caliber players and contribute?
Then what?
go watch the tape and come back and tell us what you don't like.
outside of the injuries which are pretty far removed, I don't see the reason for hating this pick
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In comment 13450477 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450435 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13450402 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
Ok then. But you don't have to keep investing 2nd rounders if you employ this strategy. I'm sorry I just have a different view on this and I know I'm not the only one
So, what do you propose they do? Spend later round picks on DT's who are much less likely to be starting-caliber players and contribute?
Then what?
here's hotdog's post this morning:
tomlinson would be nice
hitdog42 : 8:51 am : link : reply
brick wall
Thanks Ryan that was great. He seems like a great person and I can't think of another activity outside of football that would compliment his DL play then wrestling.
ACLS? Who gives a shit ... He is not a WR or DB. He is a DL for chrisakes. Like someone said above, He has played 3 full seasons since his last one.
...Round Two Need Pick.
When asked about the really slow 40 yard time he had one year at camp, George Martin replied, "If I have to run 40 yards to tackle guys, we're not winning too many games anyway."
Badass - ( New Window )
... so he's pretty much everything you want in a defensive tackle?
I feel better reading this. I hope his knee injuries don't bite us. I think that bothered me more than anything.
Second, two ACL on same knee. Really?
Third, you mean to tell me there is no OT available halfway decent?
I just don't feel warm and fuzzy like I did last night.
"....we could have signed...." but wouldn't it have been for a lot more money?
JR seems to be able to continue to replace that position at reasonable salaries.
Tomlinson also seems more flexible than Hanks based on his Alabama experience (a 1 tech who can also play some 3 tech and DE). Spags likes to move his guys around.
Think of it this way...we brought in Snacks as an outside free agent last year for zero draft equity. We let Hankins walk for a larger contract that will net us a 3rd round pick. Tomlinsons 2nd round contract + Snacks deal last year roughly equals what Hankins got in Free Agency. In essence we traded Hankins and a 2017 2nd round pick for Snack, Tomlinson and a 2018 3rd round pick. Looks fair to me.
This guy is a very good football player and was three-time State Wrestling Champion in High School. Forget the medical history from 3-4 years ago. He's going to start alongside Snacks from day one playing the 3-technique DT spot in our 4-3 defense. And, STOP with all the nonsense bringing up replacing Hankins already! Hankins is a 1-technique NT who can't get to the QB. This kid Tomlinson can! And, like most Alabama DT's to come out of Nick Saban's NFL stable, he's disruptive to shoot the gaps, can twist and stunt, and also play the run.
Forget Hankins, he's gone and was NOT a good fit in our D after we brought in Snacks last year!
But it's ok to spend later round picks on other positions of need in other drafts on players that are "much less likely to be starting caliber players and contribute?"
I'm not really sure what you want them to do. Who did you want them to draft instead? DT was a legitimate need now that Hankins is gone and there was a good player there who filled that need so we took him.
Should we have forced a pick at another position even if the value wasn't there?
Why take the risk? This guy is nothing special.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
A good run plugger and can get a good push in the pocket will be be tremendous for this defense.
Anyone know the first thing about a defense??? IT'S STOP THE RUN!!!
Boo hoo. Those with a "trained eye" love him. Plug and play Hankins fill in for a fraction of the cost
2 impact players in 1st 2 rounds ... this is a good thing.
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He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Agreed, arc. Now we need O,line and CB.
except he does, but otherwise great point. Feel free to become a Jets fan.
I'm liking this pick more and more ...
Have you ever played DT? Have you ever coached DL?
Nope. Didn't think so. You sound ridiculous with all due respect.
Ask Deshaun Watson for HIS opinion.:)
In our division that is especially true.
In our division, where December games in open roof, windy Met Life are against division rivals; stopping the run is hard nosed essential.
Love the pick.
And if I was watching the Giants I would be much more concerned about Hankins declining play in a contract year when he played next to Snacks on a line with OV and JPP. What is with that mystery?
Rather a guy determined to make it happen then a guy who alligator armed in a year when it mattered.
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In comment 13450625 colin said:
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He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Agreed, arc. Now we need O,line and CB.
Thank you! At least someone is doing their homework. 70 QB hurries as a rotational DT at Alabama that churns out defensive lineman like nobody's business! This kid can play and Giants fans are going to love him!
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He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
except he does, but otherwise great point. Feel free to become a Jets fan.
How so? Listen I want be wrong, and if you're more knowledgeable about him, explain, no need to be a dick.
From what I've seen, he's a product of the players around him getting there. Consistently the 2nd or 3rd hit, can't get off blocks, his stunts are alright but he doesn't have the speed or quick twitch (to my untrained eye) to be able to execute at an NFL level. I just don't see it with this guy. Intangibles don't = talent.
Again, I don't claim to be a know it all, just a fan, but I'm not excited about the pick. If you wanna share what makes you excited about the pick in reference to his pass rush capabilities, I really would like to hear them. Like I said, no need for the nastiness.
169-2 in HS wrestling 3 time state champ!!!
Could have gone to Harvard academically, but chose Ala!!!!
Sign me up!!!
Those who like the way Jerry handled this also thought that David Wilson was a great first round pick.
Nope. No one is "seeing double".
Reading is fundamental - ( New Window )
unless injury history.....which he did not have
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
Excepting of course that 4yrs ago the Giants had a historically bad defense.
Jerry is doo doo - ( New Window )
Sounds like a high floor guy, he should contribute significantly year one. Not a sexy pick but it fills a need, obviously.
Another high character guy, another just a guy who plays ball. No off field concerns. Just like our Round 1 guy.
Those who like the way Jerry handled this also thought that David Wilson was a great first round pick.
What an asinine comment. As if the situation with Hankins was in any way related to drafting Wilson.
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Does not play like an NFL player. Can't engage and shed, instantly swallowed, painfully slow/lacks quick twitch, I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong, I don't have a trained eye by any stretch, but wow am I disappointed by this pick. Would have MUCH rather had Wormley if they are gonna go DT. Bummed. More bummed that Walker went 3 picks before us.
Have you ever played DT? Have you ever coached DL?
Nope. Didn't think so. You sound ridiculous with all due respect.
Certainly never have claimed to. In fact, most of my posts I preface with the fact I don't have the prowess of anything near a scout, or anything of that nature. I just don't see the qualities I would have liked in a DT. I don't understand the vitriol.
Link - ( New Window )
I really like the pick
2nd round grades - ( New Window )
I'm guessing the Giants weren't overly impressed with this OT class, and we really should be OK on the OL interior. We need OT help, but they haven't given up on Flowers yet, and him improving really is our best hope, and certainly possible. Maybe they hit with Fluker at RT, or Hart develops. Maybe they feel like there's a guy in the next tier that they can grab in the 3rd, who is maybe not a huge drop from the top tier, who all had questions this year (injury, playing time, production/consistency, etc). But they can't make a guy appear if he isn't there this year, they can't always find a trade down (tho certainly possible they had more chances than we know about), and we don't know how they have these guys rated - it's always funny when I see 'They could have had him X picks later, should've traded down' - never a guarantee, and if you like the guys better to pull the trigger.
Here's hoping these are good picks, they pan out and contribute next year, and help keep our D playing like the 2nd half and help our O look more like 2 years agon than last year (when we didn't have a great OL either, but managed some rushing). I'd love to see them add an OT, and a RB to complement Perkins, but can't complain about the positions addressed so far, and I won't claim to know which guys will be good or who would have been picked when...
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He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Again, from what I've seen, albeit limited to less than a season worth of his games, a lot of his production as far as pass rush goes seems to have been a product of who he's playing with as opposed to his own ability.
I'm happy to defer to those who know more, and would be ecstatic to be wrong. God knows I have been before. I just don't see "it" as a pass rusher/pressure up the middle. He looks like he'll be a good contributor as far as playing the run goes, but I fear he's another 2 down DT is all.
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In comment 13450625 colin said:
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He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Again, from what I've seen, albeit limited to less than a season worth of his games, a lot of his production as far as pass rush goes seems to have been a product of who he's playing with as opposed to his own ability.
I'm happy to defer to those who know more, and would be ecstatic to be wrong. God knows I have been before. I just don't see "it" as a pass rusher/pressure up the middle. He looks like he'll be a good contributor as far as playing the run goes, but I fear he's another 2 down DT is all.
This would have been a completely reasonable reaction to the pick to begin with - but instead, you basically threw up your arms and acted like Reese traded away an entire draft for a kicker.
Tomlinson is going to pair well with Harrison. He's not Aaron Donald but he doesn't need to be. This team created a run stuffing identity last year and it's important to retain that strength. Tomlinson allows us to do that. He can play on passing downs. He's not going to put up sack numbers but he does get penetration from time to time and can push the pocket.
I'm not a scout and I don't know as much as guys like Dave or Sy but I do root for Alabama and watch all of their games and I can assure you that DT is a good player and will be a good fit for our defense.
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In comment 13450637 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450625 colin said:
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He adds nothing to the pass rush. I'm just very disappointed.
Had had 70 QB hurries @ Alabama. It doesn't sound like you really know much of anything about this player considering how much you're complaining about him.
Again, from what I've seen, albeit limited to less than a season worth of his games, a lot of his production as far as pass rush goes seems to have been a product of who he's playing with as opposed to his own ability.
I'm happy to defer to those who know more, and would be ecstatic to be wrong. God knows I have been before. I just don't see "it" as a pass rusher/pressure up the middle. He looks like he'll be a good contributor as far as playing the run goes, but I fear he's another 2 down DT is all.
This would have been a completely reasonable reaction to the pick to begin with - but instead, you basically threw up your arms and acted like Reese traded away an entire draft for a kicker.
Tomlinson is going to pair well with Harrison. He's not Aaron Donald but he doesn't need to be. This team created a run stuffing identity last year and it's important to retain that strength. Tomlinson allows us to do that. He can play on passing downs. He's not going to put up sack numbers but he does get penetration from time to time and can push the pocket.
I'm not a scout and I don't know as much as guys like Dave or Sy but I do root for Alabama and watch all of their games and I can assure you that DT is a good player and will be a good fit for our defense.
Fair enough, definitely a knee jerk reaction on my part. Simply put, I personally don't see what I wanted for this defense from this player at this position. He's a Giant, I'm gonna root my ass off for him, and hope that you're right and I'm wrong.
on a side note, allen looks like he could be related to strahan
I hope he enjoys his limited time in NY before moving on for his second contract.
Dumber comments the later it gets. People actually believe the Giants are drsfting players in the second round because on 2 games per year. Games they swept last year.
Makes sense.
on a side note, allen looks like he could be related to strahan
Is that Clemson highlight reel you suggested on YouTube?
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push, even when single teamed. What do you see in this video that excites you? I ask that genuinely, not to be an ass.
Link - ( New Window )
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watch the Clemson tape
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
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In comment 13450402 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
What do you know about the cap. Under the new CBA, I guess you didn't notice, the league has increased the cap by 10 to 12 million the last four years. Except for Dallas, teams re-signed almost all of their core free agents.
You pay another couple of million to keep Hankins, who you know is a good player, and use your 2nd round pick to upgrade a much-needed-position. There's no assurance that Tomlinson will be as good as Joseph or Hankins. And there's the two ACLs.
Jerry just doesn't do the draft well. Another opinion
Jordan: Jerry blows it again. - ( New Window )
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In comment 13450435 Reb8thVA said:
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In comment 13450402 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13450391 Reb8thVA said:
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In four years. He might turn out to be a very good player but it sure seems like we are spinning our wheels.
Did we not need to replace Jonathan Hankins?
I don't have a strong negative feeling toward Tomlinson but I do question the strategy or philosophy that seems to lead us to have to recycle DTs every four years. It's hard to get better at other positions when that is the case.
It's a necessary evil in the cap era. The Giants seem to feel they can continue to find replacement DT's every few years in the draft instead of re-upping a guy they already have. You can't pay every guy you draft when his rookie deal is up. It's just the nature of the league. You're going to lose talent somewhere and are going to need to replace it with a less costly player.
Not sure what people would rather do. Pay Hankins 10M a year so that we can draft another position but then get crunched somewhere else because we're now committed to Hankins?
Cap resources are finite. This is just how it goes.
What do you know about the cap. Under the new CBA, I guess you didn't notice, the league has increased the cap by 10 to 12 million the last four years. Except for Dallas, teams re-signed almost all of their core free agents.
You pay another couple of million to keep Hankins, who you know is a good player, and use your 2nd round pick to upgrade a much-needed-position. There's no assurance that Tomlinson will be as good as Joseph or Hankins. And there's the two ACLs.
Jerry just doesn't do the draft well. Another opinion Jordan: Jerry blows it again. - ( New Window )
My opinion is that you don't really know what you're talking about. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not all opinions are created equal, or hold equal weight. It would have been an outrageous allocation of dollars towards one position group given what we paid Snacks and what Hankins wanted. You do realize we need to earmark extra money for OBJ's eventual extension, and guys like Richburg and Pugh up next at the feeding table, right?
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In comment 13451157 bc4life said:
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watch the Clemson tape
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
Plus, we play the best running offense twice a season. And with how good our secondary is, we can trust our line to shut down the run and have our secondary guys causing mayhem on the backend making plays.
IMO he is an upgrade from big Hank at least I hope so.
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In comment 13451535 colin said:
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In comment 13451157 bc4life said:
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watch the Clemson tape
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
What if Snacks gets hurt? Then you have a big weakness at DT. We really needed one and Tomlinson looked really good in college
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In comment 13451535 colin said:
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In comment 13451157 bc4life said:
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watch the Clemson tape
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
A redundancy that worked to great effect. One could argue the defense was built around being able to hold teams down in the run game. By drafting Tomlinson, it tells me that that's exactly what they wanted. Maybe after years of striking out, they've decided to stop looking for that pass rushing DT that's been their white whale. They certainly had their pick of any number of known pass rush DT prospects at the third pick and left them on the table.
In addition, when you field 4 players who can hold up, you gain the luxury of changing up gap assignments to a certain degree. Whereas with even one 'skinny' type, your options are forced.
Any of the bigs can get sacks when its their turn.
Also, JPP, Vernon, Wynn and Okwara can rotate into interior on occasion, and LBs and safeties are available at times.
Another Mic drop
Will watch Adams at Green Bay, I think it was, to check myself.
For a tall DT you need to double check 'plays with enough leverage', check.
Tall DT - 'can he get horizontal to extend his range of plays, taking advantage of length' and 'just enough change of direction with that horizontal move to have a broader radius of tackling than otherwise?' Check.
To explain this one, draw a circle around a players feet and roughly indicate tackling radius. Why I did NOT like DT E. Quarles, for example, failed this part, stays on his feet some player runs right by him.
With Adams, passes batted down and fumbles recovered, indicate things that are otherwise hard to measure - and cinched it.
As I said, I like the DT pick, but will see for shits and kicks if Adams' career pans out as well as Hanks' has.
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In comment 13451542 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13451535 colin said:
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In comment 13451157 bc4life said:
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watch the Clemson tape
This one? I don't know man, this isn't impressive to me in the least. Actually, rather disheartening. I see a NT who can eat up blockers, but gets no push
That's kind of what a nose tackle does by definition. Any pass rush you get from a NT is gravy.
Yah but that's kind of my point. Harrison is a NT, I think DT is kind of a redundancy. You don't think so?
A redundancy that worked to great effect. One could argue the defense was built around being able to hold teams down in the run game. By drafting Tomlinson, it tells me that that's exactly what they wanted. Maybe after years of striking out, they've decided to stop looking for that pass rushing DT that's been their white whale. They certainly had their pick of any number of known pass rush DT prospects at the third pick and left them on the table.
If your argument is that you wanted the Giants to draft a second NT, that's one thing. I got attacked, and called a moron in so many words, because I said he's not someone who has the tools to generate pressure up the gut, which is what this team has been lacking.
One could also argue that our 3 biggest issues coming out of last year will remain the same going into next: the OL, the pass rush, and the LB corp. I think my initial comment sounded like I was condemning the player, I'm not. I'm just disappointed in the direction the team is taking.