I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
I think that over simplifies it for many. Also, those of us saying Eli was nearly done were torn apart every week. So they can't love Eli and also think he's almost done, since those seemed to be two different groups during the season. I know when I tried to make an argument for drafting a QB, some people (dpinz whatever his username is) made it personal.
I LOVE Eli and I'm bummed that he's starting to slow down, but at the same time, we need to draft a QB. However, I just don't think that 3rd round is the time to do it. Obviously I'm not in the room with them, but I'm part of the draft a QB high or don't draft one, camp. You find lots of studs drafted in all different rounds at most positions, but QB seems to be pretty skewed towards the top.
And as for people saying there are busts in the 1st too, some people don't understand boolean logic too well. Most successful QBs seem to be drafted high, but that isn't the same thing as saying most QBs drafted high are successful.
Webb was supposed to be a high pick. I have no idea why he fell but it happens all the time. Essentially we got a borderline 1st rounder for a 3rd round pick. The other teams had to give away future picks to get a QB of what I think is equal value to Webb.
I think this was the perfect setup to get a potential Eli replacement.
in the numerous "will NYG draft a QB" threads that I hoped Webb would be available in the 3rd. This is a terrific pick. We need a backup QB, and we'll need Eli's replacement soon enough. I think Webb may be the guy to fit both.
Nassib was picked in the middle of Eli's career to be a cheap backup. They saw value in the pick versus rating, and took a 4th round swing at making him a backup. It sort of worked. Webb is a guy who is drafted at the end of Eli's career with the point of being the next starter. His stats at Cal were off the chart. He also beat out Mayfield at TT, and was roughly equal to Mahomes.
So while one was a lower pick just made to fill a backup position, the other is a potential 1st rounder who is being groomed to take over.
But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
They probably did and he didn't work out. Most QBs don't work out, or they just settle into backup roles, does that mean we shouldn't be drafting them at all?
I'm anti-not having anybody past the 2nd round make it to a second contract over the better part of 10 years.
I don't pretend to know who we should have taken, I just know that we needed somebody that has the potential to contribute on offense now. Not in three years (maybe).
Oh good another weird arbitrary stat to get angry about.
We're not as bad in the latter rounds as you think, especially lately.
i can see the need to develop a possible starter and start the process of life after eli just think the guy has a few more flaws than could be fixed,we will just need to see how this works out
with new england trading up to snatch garcia who i really wanted there ,once he went i knew i would probably not like the pick there much but would love to be proved wrong in years from now
dont like the pick but dont totally hate it puts alot of pressure on day 3 to fix the OL that hasnt worked well for the OL players since diehl i pray they have diehl 2.0 targeted there with the shaky OL
This team is young, at this point our "2-3 year window" is only predicated on Eli. In regards to the rest of the roster, that window is MUCH longer. It makes sense to prepare of a transition.
Also, going beyond the developmental aspect of the pick, backup QB becomes more and more important as Eli ages. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he won't be as durable as he enters his late 30s. Webb will stricly be a 3rd QB this year, but if they just make contact with this pick, he should fill a pretty big upcoming need as our 2018 backup.
But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So they should never draft a qb again?
I don't love the pick but man some of you get so angry over these mid round picks. And now the whole ten year no second contract thing...Christ. How many mid round picks even get a second contract??
Jake Ballard, Bear pascoe, Paul Perkins, Devon kennard, will tye, and victor cruz say hi by the way. All latter round picks or undrafted. All worthy of second contracts if not for injury. That complaint is just an excuse to complain even if it's rooted in some truth. It's horse crap. And the last few drafts have been good to great.
RE: I'm sorry, I just can't wrap my head around it.
We have a team that we are a few pieces away from winning right now. A 3rd round QB is not part of that equation.
The draft isn't for right now. Are you serious with this? You're going nuts over the giants taking a pretty highly touted qb in round 3 while their current starter is closing in on 40. Again it's not for right now and the draft isn't even over. What if Webb is the goods? The giants obviously had a good grade on him.
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
Last year Cal was replacing not only the #1 pick in the draft at QB, but they lost their top 6 WRs! You are reading that right top 6 WRs all gone... Kenny Lawler Seattle, Stephen Anderson Texans, Trevor Davis Green Bay, Bryce Treggs Philly, Maurice Harris Washington, and of course Darius Powe Giants! They played a ton of FRs last year including super stud Demtrius Robertson who was learning to play WR for the first time. They had a bunch of drops and he lost his top WR Hansen for 2 games. If you put him on the team the year before with all that experienced talent at Cal the year before he is easily a first rounder!
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
As far as BBI is concerned, Eli has been in decline and nearing...
to think that Eli will see every snap over the next 3 years. I really hope he does but we can't bank on his run of durability continuing into his late 30s. A solid backup can very well save our season while we're contending in Eli's window.
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
How much did Bromley see the field in his first year? You act like third rounders play a lot. A lot of times they sit on the bench. If Davis developes and in 2 years is starting our post transition could go smooth or we need a QB. To me worth taking a chance now with only a 3rd rounder.
Our offense doesn't do that anymore, that's why. He threw the deep ball just fine the two years he was breaking records with OBJ, when we still had the Tom Coughlin offense hybrid. We now run a real west coast offense, and the deep ball is not really part of the plan.
Secondly, he's "closing in on 40"? Yeah, if four years away is "closing in. He's 36.
it'd be irresponsible to not look for a successor when your starting QB is 35 years old. I'm not going to get into the semantics into Eli's decline, he's the least of my worries.
to think that Eli will see every snap over the next 3 years. I really hope he does but we can't bank on his run of durability continuing into his late 30s. A solid backup can very well save our season while we're contending in Eli's window.
Based on what? The dude hasn't missed a game since high school.
it'd be irresponsible to not look for a successor when your starting QB is 35 years old. I'm not going to get into the semantics into Eli's decline, he's the least of my worries.
I'm fine with looking for a successor. But if they are truly into finding one, I'd rather they just put their money where there mouth is and take him in Round 1.
I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
I am not seeing who is saying Eli can't throw the deep ball anymore
He didn't really have any options outside of OBJ. Wouldn't you say the front office did a good job of upgrading Eli's choices of weapons? Marshall is a key upgrade over Cruz on the outside, Ellison gives us a versatile blocker - who can also help Flowers, Engram gives us a guy that can fly down the middle and draw safeties away from OBJ, we get a full year of Perkins. Our offense got better, and we took a flyer on a kid who may end up being a good starter down the road.
RE: Based on almost every other human being approaching 40
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
RE: I am not seeing who is saying Eli can't throw the deep ball anymore
He didn't really have any options outside of OBJ. Wouldn't you say the front office did a good job of upgrading Eli's choices of weapons? Marshall is a key upgrade over Cruz on the outside, Ellison gives us a versatile blocker - who can also help Flowers, Engram gives us a guy that can fly down the middle and draw safeties away from OBJ, we get a full year of Perkins. Our offense got better, and we took a flyer on a kid who may end up being a good starter down the road.
But we're talking about his prospects over the next 3 years here, that's what I meant by approaching 40. Webb should redshirt this year, but at 37+ I think the Giants will be well served having a competent backup that knows the system.
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
RE: RE: RE: Based on almost every other human being approaching 40
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
No offense, but that's a dumb way to look at it.
First of all, not that many Quarterbacks win Superbowls, period.
Secondly, two Quarterbacks over 35 have won Superbowls in the past two years. Your number is wrong.
John Elway won 2 Superbowls over the age of 35. So did Roger Staubach. Kurt Warner got to one, Brett Favre consistently was right there with the opportunity to get one over the age of 35 multiple times. Rich Gannon got there, so did Fran Tarkenton. Johnny Unitas and Jim Plunkett won them.
Age is a number. Performance is the measure, and Eli has not shown any indication of decline yet. The numbers don't reflect it, and his play on the field doesn't reflect it, despite what you read here.
You guys all eat up what Dave Te says about prospects....
To Davis In LA
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:32 pm : link : reply
Mallett, Tony Banks, Cutler, Gabbert - all fine athletes with pro arms, but all the cylinders are not clicking. If Webb is the Giants future, you might want to become a fan of another team. Better than Nassib, but then, that's not saying much. Doubt he sees the field in 2017, hope Geno does not either, as that means Eli is hurting
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DAVE TE TO PATTERSONPLANK
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:48 pm : link : reply
I scout, I don't draft. If a team likes him, so be it. My reports are based on what I see now & down the road. Now if "everybody" touted him as a 1, why was he there when the Giants pick. As I said, damn the best available athlete line - first three rounds, you fill needs & get those guys playing time. Day 3, find those sleepers.
Geno Smith is no gem, but he's going to be #2. Go look at the 2018 draft & juniors expected to come out. Waste a third this year on a clipboard holder when they need LB, edge, OT help? I believe in value.
D'Onta Foreman, Trey Hendrickson, James Conner, Vince Biegel.
Let's see how these guys do in 3 years compared to Webb, cool?
Again, I'm not against planning for the future. HOWEVER....
if you're going to do it, have some conviction and go up and get a real replacement in the first round. You want Mahomes? Then go up and get him. Kansas City did just that.
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
if you're going to do it, have some conviction and go up and get a real replacement in the first round. You want Mahomes? Then go up and get him. Kansas City did just that.
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
has the size Mahomes is more mobile. This is why he won the job at TT, but that shouldn't sell Webb short. He did beat out Mayfield there. Webb was great at Cal. Both have the best arms in the draft.
Mobility is very important to TT, less so in the NFL. Size takes a bigger role and mobility less. Webb moves ok, just not like Mahomes. For a pro prospect Webb may be a better choice.
Regardless, even though I can sit here and continue comparing, the fact is for two close QBs we used a 3rd round pick and KC gave away a lot of their future. This is a good gamble and excellent value.
Last year Cal was replacing not only the #1 pick in the draft at QB, but they lost their top 6 WRs! You are reading that right top 6 WRs all gone... Kenny Lawler Seattle, Stephen Anderson Texans, Trevor Davis Green Bay, Bryce Treggs Philly, Maurice Harris Washington, and of course Darius Powe Giants! They played a ton of FRs last year including super stud Demtrius Robertson who was learning to play WR for the first time. They had a bunch of drops and he lost his top WR Hansen for 2 games. If you put him on the team the year before with all that experienced talent at Cal the year before he is easily a first rounder!
That is really good info. Thanks!
Has anyone seen a side by side comparison of Webb vs. the QBs picked in the first round? What makes Trubisky and the others so much better than he is?
If they were close, Webb wouldn't have gone in the third.
I think some are being silly, getting worked up over a third round project, where the chance was worth the smaller cost, but he was a third rounder. Not almost a first, not on par with guys who had multiple first traded for them.
This is playing out a lot like the delusion with Nassib where people, til the end, claimed he could have gone in the first his draft year and just wouldn't let go of the he had a second round grade stuff... he went in the fourth for a reason. Webb went in the third for a reason (and no, citing Brady or Prescott outliers don't change that); that's who he is and what the league sees his value as, right now.
Britt, you and I are in sync about Eli..I honestly feel, as you know,
he can play at least another 5 years at a good to high level..Obviously, if the push up the middle that takes him out of his comfort zone (that of stepping up in the pocket) isn't fixed, he might be done in 2 years..Today's nutrition, conditioning and absurd changes in the rules to benefit QBs, are among the big reasons I expect him to play as long as Brady and Brees will and Favre did..Assuming he wants to..
I expect a big year out of Eli, given what we've improved upon (at least on paper)..I understand why they took a QB where they did, albeit not thrilled with it..
Here's where I may differ with you..By all reports, Mahomes, who they ostensibly wanted, is not all that much better than Webb is. We shall see on that. Some scouts have said he's better than Mahomes. Doesn't matter if he is or not. But, it appears that the difference is negligible enough, that to give up what KC did, would be egregious, imo..Those very high picks, are so needed and to give them up, would have been incompetent by Reese..Imo..
RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
drafted QB's. In fact my order, based on NFL potential, would be Mahomes (1a), Webb (1b), Watson, then Trubisky. I think the Bears really hurt themselves. If Trubisky isn't a top QB starter they really screwed up.
Again our downside here is minimal compared to the other three picks, and I don't see much difference.
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
Actually David, we do not know what's happening with Eli. It's possible he already told the team he only wants another year or two.
Webb's highlights are impressive.
RE: RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
Everybody always points to the Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers succession
The Packers picked Rodgers in the first round, not knowing how much longer Favre was going to play, which ended up being three more years before he "retired".
That's conviction when it comes to finding a real replacement.
The Giants need contributors on offense RIGHT NOW.
They have a championship caliber defense, a HOF franchise Quarterback who can still play at a high level, and arguably the best WR in the league. They are one or two pieces away from being a viable Superbowl contender.
The time to win is now, and pardon me for feeling like it's a dumb move to waste a 3rd round pick on a 3 year project that may or may not pan out.
On the other hand, Jerry Reese has a pretty dreadful track record with everything past the 2nd round anyways, so maybe it didn't matter who we drafted.
RE: RE: RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
I just added it up. 47% (15 of 32) of the starting QBs were not drafted in the 1st round. Players rise and fall for many reasons, some are meaningless. Its not a fact that a QB needs to be taken, or reached for, in the 1st round to be your guy.
RE: RE: RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
Past results don't dictate a future outcome. For how many years was it that the Giants could never find, or never bothered to look for a Wide Reciever?
Look, QB is the toughest roster spot to fill in any sport, and I have no idea if Webb is going to pan out, but you do actually have to try.
Even if you believe, like I do, that the most effective way to do it is tank for a #1 in a good year for QBs, that can and does fail very often too, and whiffing on a #1 overall is damn sure a lot more painful than blowing it on a 3rd round guy.
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I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
I think that over simplifies it for many. Also, those of us saying Eli was nearly done were torn apart every week. So they can't love Eli and also think he's almost done, since those seemed to be two different groups during the season. I know when I tried to make an argument for drafting a QB, some people (dpinz whatever his username is) made it personal.
I LOVE Eli and I'm bummed that he's starting to slow down, but at the same time, we need to draft a QB. However, I just don't think that 3rd round is the time to do it. Obviously I'm not in the room with them, but I'm part of the draft a QB high or don't draft one, camp. You find lots of studs drafted in all different rounds at most positions, but QB seems to be pretty skewed towards the top.
And as for people saying there are busts in the 1st too, some people don't understand boolean logic too well. Most successful QBs seem to be drafted high, but that isn't the same thing as saying most QBs drafted high are successful.
Webb was supposed to be a high pick. I have no idea why he fell but it happens all the time. Essentially we got a borderline 1st rounder for a 3rd round pick. The other teams had to give away future picks to get a QB of what I think is equal value to Webb.
I think this was the perfect setup to get a potential Eli replacement.
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So while one was a lower pick just made to fill a backup position, the other is a potential 1st rounder who is being groomed to take over.
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But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
They probably did and he didn't work out. Most QBs don't work out, or they just settle into backup roles, does that mean we shouldn't be drafting them at all?
I don't pretend to know who we should have taken, I just know that we needed somebody that has the potential to contribute on offense now. Not in three years (maybe).
Oh good another weird arbitrary stat to get angry about.
We're not as bad in the latter rounds as you think, especially lately.
So much hang wringing over a 3rd round pick.
with new england trading up to snatch garcia who i really wanted there ,once he went i knew i would probably not like the pick there much but would love to be proved wrong in years from now
dont like the pick but dont totally hate it puts alot of pressure on day 3 to fix the OL that hasnt worked well for the OL players since diehl i pray they have diehl 2.0 targeted there with the shaky OL
Also, going beyond the developmental aspect of the pick, backup QB becomes more and more important as Eli ages. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he won't be as durable as he enters his late 30s. Webb will stricly be a 3rd QB this year, but if they just make contact with this pick, he should fill a pretty big upcoming need as our 2018 backup.
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But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So your answer is to ignore your scouts?
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But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So they should never draft a qb again?
I don't love the pick but man some of you get so angry over these mid round picks. And now the whole ten year no second contract thing...Christ. How many mid round picks even get a second contract??
Jake Ballard, Bear pascoe, Paul Perkins, Devon kennard, will tye, and victor cruz say hi by the way. All latter round picks or undrafted. All worthy of second contracts if not for injury. That complaint is just an excuse to complain even if it's rooted in some truth. It's horse crap. And the last few drafts have been good to great.
The draft isn't for right now. Are you serious with this? You're going nuts over the giants taking a pretty highly touted qb in round 3 while their current starter is closing in on 40. Again it's not for right now and the draft isn't even over. What if Webb is the goods? The giants obviously had a good grade on him.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
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So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
How much did Bromley see the field in his first year? You act like third rounders play a lot. A lot of times they sit on the bench. If Davis developes and in 2 years is starting our post transition could go smooth or we need a QB. To me worth taking a chance now with only a 3rd rounder.
Secondly, he's "closing in on 40"? Yeah, if four years away is "closing in. He's 36.
Based on what? The dude hasn't missed a game since high school.
I'm fine with looking for a successor. But if they are truly into finding one, I'd rather they just put their money where there mouth is and take him in Round 1.
To me, this feels like a waste.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I am happy with all those moves.
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Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
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In comment 13452448 AcesUp said:
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Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
No offense, but that's a dumb way to look at it.
First of all, not that many Quarterbacks win Superbowls, period.
Secondly, two Quarterbacks over 35 have won Superbowls in the past two years. Your number is wrong.
John Elway won 2 Superbowls over the age of 35. So did Roger Staubach. Kurt Warner got to one, Brett Favre consistently was right there with the opportunity to get one over the age of 35 multiple times. Rich Gannon got there, so did Fran Tarkenton. Johnny Unitas and Jim Plunkett won them.
Age is a number. Performance is the measure, and Eli has not shown any indication of decline yet. The numbers don't reflect it, and his play on the field doesn't reflect it, despite what you read here.
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:32 pm : link : reply
Mallett, Tony Banks, Cutler, Gabbert - all fine athletes with pro arms, but all the cylinders are not clicking. If Webb is the Giants future, you might want to become a fan of another team. Better than Nassib, but then, that's not saying much. Doubt he sees the field in 2017, hope Geno does not either, as that means Eli is hurting
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:48 pm : link : reply
I scout, I don't draft. If a team likes him, so be it. My reports are based on what I see now & down the road. Now if "everybody" touted him as a 1, why was he there when the Giants pick. As I said, damn the best available athlete line - first three rounds, you fill needs & get those guys playing time. Day 3, find those sleepers.
Geno Smith is no gem, but he's going to be #2. Go look at the 2018 draft & juniors expected to come out. Waste a third this year on a clipboard holder when they need LB, edge, OT help? I believe in value.
D'Onta Foreman, Trey Hendrickson, James Conner, Vince Biegel.
Let's see how these guys do in 3 years compared to Webb, cool?
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
Kind of reminds me of Dak Prescott
Mobility is very important to TT, less so in the NFL. Size takes a bigger role and mobility less. Webb moves ok, just not like Mahomes. For a pro prospect Webb may be a better choice.
Regardless, even though I can sit here and continue comparing, the fact is for two close QBs we used a 3rd round pick and KC gave away a lot of their future. This is a good gamble and excellent value.
That is really good info. Thanks!
Has anyone seen a side by side comparison of Webb vs. the QBs picked in the first round? What makes Trubisky and the others so much better than he is?
This is playing out a lot like the delusion with Nassib where people, til the end, claimed he could have gone in the first his draft year and just wouldn't let go of the he had a second round grade stuff... he went in the fourth for a reason. Webb went in the third for a reason (and no, citing Brady or Prescott outliers don't change that); that's who he is and what the league sees his value as, right now.
I expect a big year out of Eli, given what we've improved upon (at least on paper)..I understand why they took a QB where they did, albeit not thrilled with it..
Here's where I may differ with you..By all reports, Mahomes, who they ostensibly wanted, is not all that much better than Webb is. We shall see on that. Some scouts have said he's better than Mahomes. Doesn't matter if he is or not. But, it appears that the difference is negligible enough, that to give up what KC did, would be egregious, imo..Those very high picks, are so needed and to give them up, would have been incompetent by Reese..Imo..
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Again our downside here is minimal compared to the other three picks, and I don't see much difference.
Actually David, we do not know what's happening with Eli. It's possible he already told the team he only wants another year or two.
Webb's highlights are impressive.
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believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
The Packers picked Rodgers in the first round, not knowing how much longer Favre was going to play, which ended up being three more years before he "retired".
That's conviction when it comes to finding a real replacement.
They have a championship caliber defense, a HOF franchise Quarterback who can still play at a high level, and arguably the best WR in the league. They are one or two pieces away from being a viable Superbowl contender.
The time to win is now, and pardon me for feeling like it's a dumb move to waste a 3rd round pick on a 3 year project that may or may not pan out.
On the other hand, Jerry Reese has a pretty dreadful track record with everything past the 2nd round anyways, so maybe it didn't matter who we drafted.
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In comment 13452441 Britt in VA said:
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believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
I just added it up. 47% (15 of 32) of the starting QBs were not drafted in the 1st round. Players rise and fall for many reasons, some are meaningless. Its not a fact that a QB needs to be taken, or reached for, in the 1st round to be your guy.
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In comment 13452441 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
Past results don't dictate a future outcome. For how many years was it that the Giants could never find, or never bothered to look for a Wide Reciever?
Look, QB is the toughest roster spot to fill in any sport, and I have no idea if Webb is going to pan out, but you do actually have to try.
Even if you believe, like I do, that the most effective way to do it is tank for a #1 in a good year for QBs, that can and does fail very often too, and whiffing on a #1 overall is damn sure a lot more painful than blowing it on a 3rd round guy.