WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipation. Timing passes must come out sooner. Plagued by accuracy issues and decision-making outside the numbers on both intermediate and deep throws. Five of his 12 interceptions in 2016 were along deep sidelines due to under-throws and failure to read safety help. Touch and placement are an issue when forced to leave the pocket. Not a factor as a scrambler.
Eli under contract for 3. With roster bonuses due on the 3rd day of each league year for the final 2 years, he is "cuttable". In which case, I hope Eli makes a business decision and pushes for those bonuses up front this season when he can't be cut. Yes, I am advocating him holding out.
If I were a team like Cleveland, I would take impact players at (pick Nos.) 1 and 12 and then trade back into the bottom of the first round for Davis Webb, an NFL executive told NFL.coms Daniel Jeremiah. I think he will end up being the best quarterback of this draft class.
I hated the Nassib pick too, but I guess comparing that time and pick against now and this pick is apples/oranges.
Third round pick on a guy who may never be a starter, at a position where next year's draft looks stacked, when there's a lot of talent still on the board.
I think it's fair to question the value of this pick. We shall see!
we got our guy!!! I know we spoke a little about how we liked this kid
Wasn't me. I never really spoke about Webb. Wasn't a fan of any of the QBs in this draft. But next year's crop will be insane. I could see 6 or 7 QBs go in the first round next year.
My first reaction is that I don't like it - but if the Giants feel strongly about the kid, who knows. Obviously they whiffed on Nassib. Lets hope this isn't a repeat.
In all seriousness this guy could turn out to be the best QB in this draft. Big, smart, and a canon for an arm. Give him 2 years behind Eli and we could have a Rogers type situation where he comes right in.
SOURCES TELL US "He obviously is going to need coaching after being in those offenses at Texas Tech and Cal. I think he has enough between the ears to unlearn some of his bad habits and start to get things right. I see another Nick Foles if you give him time to develop." -- AFC area scout
NFL COMPARISON Brock Osweiler
BOTTOM LINE System quarterback with more than 65 percent of his attempts coming inside of 10 yards. Webb has enough raw talent to be considered a developmental prospect, but his decision-making and accuracy issues beyond 10 yards is a big red flag that might be tough to overcome in the NFL.
about the chances of any developmental QB under the 2011 CBA. The teams just don't have the practice time to really coach up a backup.
The guys who are worth having are the guys who are good enough to start right away. Otherwise, the best you hope for is the Cousins-Kaepernick-Tyrod level of play. Would anybody here be happy with Eli's successor capping out at that level? Better to tank a year post-Eli and get a blue-chipper.
I like grabbing a guy here. In fact, I think they should grab another in the midrounds next year. Having two developmental guys in the pipeline increases our chances of hitting.
I know people get tired of the Pats rhetoric, but that's they've been doing.
I don't understand your point. Smith has a nothing contract, which is fitting since he probably doesn't have an NFL future. They're just giving him a chance.
Someone tell me why this isn't going to be a wasted pick like Nassib all over again.
I may not love the pick, but big difference between Webb and Nassib. Webb throws the ball around with ease, big arm, where as Nassib was always a bit more of a system qb. He'll play in this league.
That Eli isn't going to be here for 4 or 5 more years.
Most likely it's two more and out.
Yeah, Eli will only be here 2 or 3 more years. But you replace him with a good QB if you want to keep competing. I really doubt Davis Webb is going to step in when Eli retires or god forbid gets hurt and does a great job at QB. But I guess we'll see. They should have just drafted one next year where the QB crop is supposed to be even better.
Had one of the worst offensive line last year and in the first 3 rounds, nothing?? Did we need "NEED" a QB in the 3rd round this year, no. I was fine with Engram, Tomlinson I like a lot, the Webb pick is a head scratcher.
I think there were guys on the board who could have been contributors for the next few years. Third round for a player who doesn't seem to have learned anything about technique in 4 years of college play seems high unless he's got size/speed/arm strength that just forces you to take him.
we got our guy!!! I know we spoke a little about how we liked this kid
Wasn't me. I never really spoke about Webb. Wasn't a fan of any of the QBs in this draft. But next year's crop will be insane. I could see 6 or 7 QBs go in the first round next year.
This pick illustrates why we are not going to be like the
Bills, Browns, Redskins etc trying so desperately to
find a starting qb of quality.
Eli is the starter for 2-3 more years and we all love him
but I bet even he wants to see the franchise succeed
after he retires.
I love this pick. He could be like Nassib or he could be our
version of Luck/Rodgers.
So if a legit first round grade QB falls to us in the 22-30 range next year do we pass for this kid? And if we don't, what is the point of picking him now?
we got our guy!!! I know we spoke a little about how we liked this kid
Wasn't me. I never really spoke about Webb. Wasn't a fan of any of the QBs in this draft. But next year's crop will be insane. I could see 6 or 7 QBs go in the first round next year.
mmmm was it terps? I thought it was you!
Nope, wasn't me. Thanks for thinking of me though! Haha
this is a definite thread archive moment. Whether we're right or wrong, it'll be funny to revisit years from now. Doesn't seem like there's much of an in between crowd for this kid. Seems like a love it or hate it pick.
That Eli isn't going to be here for 4 or 5 more years.
People need to accept that Eli will be hitting the turf or doing his 2 step drop quite a bit in 2017 with a shit offensive line.
Most likely it's two more and out.
People keep thinking that Eli is going to play at a high level for the next three years... One can hope..
a fan of Webb in the first or second, but fine here. Stunned he lasted so long. Giants probably were as well.
Saw a lot of Cal games. Has the height and the arm strength required to survive the howling winds of the Meadowlands. Better arm than Goff. Tremendous work ethic, just like Tomlinson. No injury history.
60-65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS, but that is true for most QBs from spread offenses. Some sideline "rail," throws, but few to the second and third levels. Generally accurate, but passes can sail. Limited experience with three, five, and seven step drops. Little mobility, and needs more lower body strength.
Webb was talked about as a guy who could creep into the 1st round and some have thought he's better than Goff. Nothing wrong with grooming a potential successor for ~3 years give or take one either way. Even if the best case scenario is a Jimmy G type ala the Patriots. I like the pick
Using a 3rd round pick on a player that you do not expect to play for 3 years. Asiata, Lawson, King, Perine all seemed like better choices at this point.
This team NEEDS a QB that can hold down the fort if need be because the roster is so talented you don't want to fall out of playoff contention if Eli misses two or three games.
He hasn't missed any game ever but it's not reasonable to expect he will never miss a game.
This is a great kid... he works harder than anyone. In at 5am and there last at Cal. Just a great kid who wants to be good. He studies and works all the time. He reminds me of Eli in a lot of ways. I have Cal season tickets and know a lot of inside people at Cal. This guy is top notch. Now he needs work. He locks onto WRs, doesn't progress thru reads and needs help there. I guarantee you tho this guy will give it everything he has on and off the field to be good. Oh and has a rifle on his arm. Check out his ball velocity it is off 2nd to only Mahomes altho in other events his was higher. Love this!!
would you let the next Joe Montana pass thru 3rd rd
In fact I bet we can get guys like Asiata and McDermott in the 4th Rd too. Webb IS A STEAL HERE. Take a shot in the 3rd on a guy who could be the next starter rather than a forced OL pick would be the next Brewer.
Great pick. Archive this thread for the future.
Webb made some nice throws in the Senior Bowl game
Webb was talked about as a guy who could creep into the 1st round and some have thought he's better than Goff. Nothing wrong with grooming a potential successor for ~3 years give or take one either way. Even if the best case scenario is a Jimmy G type ala the Patriots. I like the pick
You can't be honestly surprised. Look at some of the comments. Some people don't even think long-term thinking plays into the draft.
Most QBs do, especially in the 3rd round. But you HAVE to sink resources into trying to find the right developmental guy (and I say guys). Otherwise, Eli retires and we're one of those teams trading away 2 drafts to move up for one.
You guys watch the Jets, life after Eli scares the shit out of me and should you too. Now is the time to start looking.
RE: Webb made some nice throws in the Senior Bowl game
lorenzen (UDFA, 2004), woodson (6th, 2008) bohmar (5th, 2009), nassib (4th, 2013), webb (3rd, 2017). our GM loves wasting picks on QBs who suck and are never long for the team. and he is now burning day one picks to continue with this? i'll admit i don't know the first thing about davis, but with reese's track record how could you not doubt it? the only position he's fucked up as consistently as QB is LB. i like the first two picks in this draft well enough but this drafting shitty QBs every 4 years with increasingly high picks has got to stop. for the love of god. lorenzen was the best of the bunch.
Or maybe they drafted him as a chip to trade down the road.
All I know (or at least hope) is that the Giants won't pass next year on Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk for Davis Webb. Then again, those kids could fall ala Connor Cook and Christian Hackenberg.
I threw his name out there a long time ago, when he was considered possibly a 5th at that point?
Those were the possible projections then,
I said I wouldn't mind. Obviously he had moved up since.
I don't have a problem here, if they like him enough.
Would have maybe went for an OL or RB...but clearly a weak OL class and maybe the RB the wanted went. It makes sense - we need a guy to groom to replace Eli, a 3rd rounder isn't a huge gamble but still nets a solid talent, and has has the size and arm but needs some learning time. I get it and hope they can get him ready to go in 3 years or so....if not, we'll see another low pick once Eli is getting ready to hand em up
is much better than Nassib, and I was one of the few people who defended the Nassib pick. I thought Nassib could have gone in the second round, and the Steelers were interested in him, and had to settle for Landry Jones.
Webb is much bigger, and has a better arm, although Nassib is more mobile.
Eli is reaching the end. Whether that's in two or three years, his window is closing.
year to get Eli's successor they are guaranteed to get one because ...? If they have a conviction about this guy then I'm fine with it. Looking forward to seeing him in camp.
- Anything to potentially get Geno Smith off the roster is a positive
- This is closer to the traditional way teams used to handle young QBs, letting them caddie for a few years and learn before putting them on the field rather than learning on the job
- This is different than the Nassib pick. Nassib was never meant to play. He was a cheaper backup than paying relatively big bucks for the David Carr's of the world to sit behind Eli. Webb is a true potential heir to Eli because all indications are Eli is done once his deal is up.
- Next years draft has even more talented QBs in it. I wouldn't put it past the Giants to look there again next year if they aren't "feeling it" with Webb after a year of work behind Eli. Remember, you need a starter and a backup. This is similar to the Dave Brown/ Kent Graham set up years ago when Simms was on his last legs (hopefully this works out better)
- The Giants have needs at OL, but this draft blows for OL right now. So the value wasn't there at the 3rd round. They need a RB, but they can get a big back tomorrow, or just sign Blount.
- This screams a value pick, at an area of need somewhat immediately (upgrade the backup) with the potential to groom Eli's replacement. I think the Giants are hoping for a good transition like Favre to Rodgers when the time comes, and less like Simms to Brown.
a fan of Webb in the first or second, but fine here. Stunned he lasted so long. Giants probably were as well.
Saw a lot of Cal games. Has the height and the arm strength required to survive the howling winds of the Meadowlands. Better arm than Goff. Tremendous work ethic, just like Tomlinson. No injury history.
60-65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS, but that is true for most QBs from spread offenses. Some sideline "rail," throws, but few to the second and third levels. Generally accurate, but passes can sail. Limited experience with three, five, and seven step drops. Little mobility, and needs more lower body strength.
Good pick. Worth the risk.
Webb vs. Oregon - ( New Window )
someone commented "Eli's successor" on that video and it was from 3 months ago LOL.
RE: RE: would you let the next Joe Montana pass thru 3rd rd
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
Nassib is hilarious. He was a high rated QB that fell to the 4th and we traded up for. He ENDED UP as a backup. But everyone who defended it was saying we just took Eli's successor/trade bait to land us a haul of draft picks.
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
Would have disliked it as a 2nd, hated it as a first, but he has a huge arm and a huge ceiling. Probably won't get there, but if he does the pick is more than worth it.
Or maybe they drafted him as a chip to trade down the road.
All I know (or at least hope) is that the Giants won't pass next year on Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk for Davis Webb. Then again, those kids could fall ala Connor Cook and Christian Hackenberg.
Jimmy G. has played all of 6 quarters, and got hurt.
He hasn't proved much, teams are just desperate.
No way in hell, those 3 QB's who went in the first 12 picks
were good enough IMO. You get a team like the Bears,
who go out a sign a QB, then trade up to draft one.
That is some dumbass shit on their part.
Nassib is hilarious. He was a high rated QB that fell to the 4th and we traded up for. He ENDED UP as a backup. But everyone who defended it was saying we just took Eli's successor/trade bait to land us a haul of draft picks.
Same shit here with this kid.
Nassib was a value pick, who Reese himself said at the time he was drafted that he hopes he never plays. The biggest hope for the Giants was that if Eli got hurt and he had to go in for a few games, he would do well and become trade bait. Prior to Nassib, they were paying millions for Carr to hold a clip board and get a beating in the pre-season behind the 3rd string OL. The front office figured they might as well save some money and let Nassib do that and hope that they might get something to possibly trade down the line.
Good arm. Bit immobile but considering he's a bit more athletic in terms of outside the pocket than Eli I don't think we should get hung up on that.
This is a great situation for him to come into.
This does not preclude a 2018 pick.
A more mobile Eli clone who can learn for a few years under Eli and Ben is worth this pick. (Eli would not feel as threatened by as some of the 1st rd QBs. See Warner, Kurt)
If he succeeds, the NYG can adjust personnel and strategy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: would you let the next Joe Montana pass thru 3rd rd
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
Off-hand, I don't remember, TBH
RE: can't wait for preseason when this kid starts a QB controversy
People will be outraged, people will be indignant, people will think they're smarter than the GM, but who gives a F?
Thompson is too soon to rate, but not one impact player in probably 10 years except Manningham, who was good, but limited. So get your outrage on, this QB can't be any worse than 90% of these guys.
2016: Darian Thompson S
2015: Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE
2014: Jay Bromley DT
2013: Damontre Moore DE
2012: Jayron Hosley CB
2011: Jerrel Jernigan WR
2010: Chad Jones S
2009: Ramses Barden WR (trade up), Travis Beckum TE
2008: Mario Manningham WR
2007: Jay Alford D
This is different than the Nassib pick. Nassib was never meant to play. He was a cheaper backup than paying relatively big bucks for the David Carr's of the world to sit behind Eli.
Trading up for a cheap backup who would never play was stupid.
And using a 3rd on a QB and then looking again at next year's class would be stupid, too.
Biggest need - O-line and Jerry ignored it again. He doesn't have the imagination to run a draft. He could have traded up in the second for Lamp and we'd be in good shape. Now, we may need to start Webb when this o-line gets Eli killed this year!
is Eli's last deal.
They have made multiple comments about his skills deteriorating.
I think fans need to realize it.
I preferred Mahomes but Webb it is, hopefully, he develops or we draft another QB over the next 2 years.
Since QB is not what I call a 'need' position, Webb must be the bpa
If Webb is truly the highest rated player on the Giants draft board, then I applaud the Giants for adhering to the philosophy of drafting the bpa, but at the same time, I scorn the Giant for throwing away their chances to draft somebody who can help them win this year.
it's quite clear the team thinks Eli is nearing the end
He's 36 and his contract has 3 years left. Of course he's nearing the end.
Patriots took Garropolo in the 2nd and Brissett in the 3rd. Brady is still playing at a high level. If the Patriots can use resources towards covering their asses in case Brady declines rapidly, then why shouldn't we do the same?
Yes he could be the answer in 2-3 years but he could also be another Nassib. A mediocre hat wearing clipboard holding QB that never gets in the game.
I think they are close but need OL help, LB and maybe RB.
Agreed, but I think the Pats traded up and got the OL the Giants were going to look at. Once that happened, the value wasn't there in the 3rd round slot at OL. Nor LB, and as for RB, they can get one tomorrow or just sign Blount. So if their draft board has Webb that high up on it, you take him. I'm just glad they didn't use a first rounder on Mahomes.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: would you let the next Joe Montana pass thru 3rd rd
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
Off-hand, I don't remember, TBH
Only games he looked even close to as bad as hackenberg was Oregon State game where he hurt his throwing hand and couldn't grip the ball. They should have pulled him and the Washington game and that was some drops and Washington being studs on Def
Eli is near end of the road and no one is betting the backup is the heir apparent. he will have a few years to learn. has some physical tools and I cannot think of a better QB to learn from
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: would you let the next Joe Montana pass thru 3rd rd
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
Off-hand, I don't remember, TBH
Only games he looked even close to as bad as hackenberg was Oregon State game where he hurt his throwing hand and couldn't grip the ball. They should have pulled him and the Washington game and that was some drops and Washington being studs on Def
And I didn't mean to compare him to Hackenberg. I meant the impression of him having a big arm but poor accuracy.
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
it's quite clear the team thinks Eli is nearing the end
He's 36 and his contract has 3 years left. Of course he's nearing the end.
Patriots took Garropolo in the 2nd and Brissett in the 3rd. Brady is still playing at a high level. If the Patriots can use resources towards covering their asses in case Brady declines rapidly, then why shouldn't we do the same?
Everyone wants to be the Patriots, but they don't want to be the Patriots.
comments on this thread from those who know the program and have seen him play.
It's telling that Daniel Jeremiah, who is a fantastic scout, said he may end up being the best QB of the class.
Then again, I do recall similar things being said about Ryan Nassib, who had a good arm and top-notch intangibles as well. He didn't have Webb's size though.
I guess we'll see. All I know is that it shouldn't impact whether we take a better QB next year.
WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipation. Timing passes must come out sooner. Plagued by accuracy issues and decision-making outside the numbers on both intermediate and deep throws. Five of his 12 interceptions in 2016 were along deep sidelines due to under-throws and failure to read safety help. Touch and placement are an issue when forced to leave the pocket. Not a factor as a scrambler.
Lots of people who have never seen him are the ones blasting him
The kid is a terrific gamble in the 3rd. A better gamble than the other players available. This is a big potential hit, big upside. We can still get the same OL players in the 4th. I bet Asiata, McDermott, etc. will all still be there.
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
(And if you think that anything can be coached up effectively with a backup, given the practice-time and time-with-coaches limitations of the 2011 CBA.)
i never thought Nassib was that good to supplant Eli
WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipation. Timing passes must come out sooner. Plagued by accuracy issues and decision-making outside the numbers on both intermediate and deep throws. Five of his 12 interceptions in 2016 were along deep sidelines due to under-throws and failure to read safety help. Touch and placement are an issue when forced to leave the pocket. Not a factor as a scrambler.
Why just list his weaknesses? Whats the agenda here, why not his positives too?
STRENGTHS Stands tall in the pocket with a high release point. Rhythm passer. Can drive it with accuracy between hashes when allowed to sling from a clean pocket. Shows patience to allow crossing routes to clear traffic. Expedites release with compact delivery when blitzed. Functional poise with blitz in his face. Slides to create cleaner platform to launch from when pocket gets noisy. Internal clock is operational. Has feel for when ball has been in his hands too long and will look to release it. Feet are good enough to operate in a boot-action passing attack. Completion percentage saw an uptick in the fourth quarter in 2016.
If he is such a hard worker, how come he has lots of flaws?
Not everyone is perfect. I mean practice does make perfect but some things are not correctible.
Much of being a great qb is mental. His biggest weakness is decision making. Maybe he just isn't smart enough to figure it out. Not trying to be critical, just trying to understand why he has these weaknesses.
All draft picks are a roll of the dice, but QBs are especially so.
They're even a roll of the dice once they're on the field. RGIII looked one way when he arrived, another way now. Drew Brees was underwhelming at first.
I think the takeaway from this pick is the Giants are starting their succession plan at QB. Webb may be the guy, or not. Maybe they end up drafting a few QBs over the next few years, trying to find the next franchise QB. That wouldn't be surprising.
And that would be okay. Not ideal, but acceptable -- IF they find their next great QB at the end of the process.
If it takes 3 draft picks, with two wasted on guys who wash out, that's bad, but not as bad as having a crappy QB for years. (Remember what it was like between Simms and Collins? Kent Graham... Dave Brown... Jesse Palmer...). If you have a bad QB your team is dead in the water.
WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipation. Timing passes must come out sooner. Plagued by accuracy issues and decision-making outside the numbers on both intermediate and deep throws. Five of his 12 interceptions in 2016 were along deep sidelines due to under-throws and failure to read safety help. Touch and placement are an issue when forced to leave the pocket. Not a factor as a scrambler.
Why just list his weaknesses? Whats the agenda here, why not his positives too?
STRENGTHS Stands tall in the pocket with a high release point. Rhythm passer. Can drive it with accuracy between hashes when allowed to sling from a clean pocket. Shows patience to allow crossing routes to clear traffic. Expedites release with compact delivery when blitzed. Functional poise with blitz in his face. Slides to create cleaner platform to launch from when pocket gets noisy. Internal clock is operational. Has feel for when ball has been in his hands too long and will look to release it. Feet are good enough to operate in a boot-action passing attack. Completion percentage saw an uptick in the fourth quarter in 2016.
No agenda, merely trying to see where he lacks and is deficient. Obviously, this has to be overcome, right?
Well it is the infamous 3rd round of the NFL draft
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
You will have a year with Webb and a real understanding of capabilities.
If you think they are better you draft them but if they don't fall or Webb is really impressing the staff you made the right choice and move forward.
Because we drafted Webb does not hold us back of pick a better QB if they drop
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
And who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph, or Falk will be better than Webb? I didn't want a QB in the 1st, but we got a potential 1st rounder in the late 3rd. Its a steal, and if it works its a home run. The kid has it all, I hope he can put it together. He's as good as Trubisky for sure.
Again, the reason I'm skeptical is that I can't really recall a QB
seems like decent value. They may swing and miss 5 times before finding Eli's successor, but at this point they need to start planning it.
For perspective, people are saying the Bears made a huge mistake drafting Mitch #2. KC & Houston traded next years first for Mahomes & Watson. Maybe Webb pans out, maybe he stinks, but it's much less risk in finding out.
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
And who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph, or Falk will be better than Webb? I didn't want a QB in the 1st, but we got a potential 1st rounder in the late 3rd. Its a steal, and if it works its a home run. The kid has it all, I hope he can put it together. He's as good as Trubisky for sure.
That's fair. I think they are, but I concede that things could change from now until next April. No doubt.
And I don't know if he's as good as Trubisky. If he was, he would've been taken earlier than he did. Let's hope he is. Let's hope he's an amazing pick. I certainly hope so.
RE: Lots of people who have never seen him are the ones blasting him
The kid is a terrific gamble in the 3rd. A better gamble than the other players available. This is a big potential hit, big upside. We can still get the same OL players in the 4th. I bet Asiata, McDermott, etc. will all still be there.
Webb reminds me of Carson Palmer frankly.
I think many of us are just thinking that we have much more critical needs now than a backup QB. I have nothing against Webb but I hate the pick for going for any QB in the draft this year. We were close last year but still have some serious needs. We picked up a good TE, and a good DE which we absolutely needed after letting Hankins walk and then we wasted a third rounder. So here we are three picks in and the only improvement is a TE.
Reaffirms my belief that JR was not a fan of TC and did not/ would not build the "Giants football" team TC wanted: nasty and bruisers throughout the roster, and more a rush than passing O. Look at all the project OLs that failed(Brewer), and the anti-LT/Banks/Carson ones he drafted(sintim, Dillard).
Instead, JR built his vision of a team; eg as JM even said, the 1st rder is JRs. And I know TC and Ross also contributed to failures but its JRs team.
No disrespect or anger to Mc, but they are, appropriately , building a Mc O, including for the Webb pick that could have been used more wisely considering even @32, there would be a group of 5-7 QBs from which we'd have at least 1-2
QBs that would still be there, better than this QB class.
You're talking about a 21 year old college kid. Your comment might be the stupidest comment I've read here in many years if not ever. Why bother having professional coaches if all these players have 4 years of college coaching to fix their flaws ?
seems like decent value. They may swing and miss 5 times before finding Eli's successor, but at this point they need to start planning it.
For perspective, people are saying the Bears made a huge mistake drafting Mitch #2. KC & Houston traded next years first for Mahomes & Watson. Maybe Webb pans out, maybe he stinks, but it's much less risk in finding out.
+1. Chicago, KC, and Houston mortgaged their futures trying to get their next QB. We spent a late 3rd rounder on a guy that a lot of people think is just as good as the top 3.
The Kid also has a "Fresh" medical, Never been hurt very durable
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers just off the top of my head
but for the record, 61% would be better than Eli's career completion percent.
Tom Brady is an exception. I mean he was a sixth rounder. Let's be honest. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time.
And Rodgers kind of hovered around where he was at college, IIRC, which is around 65%.
Who cares? My point was even if Webb becomes an NFL starting QB and his completion percent is 61% it will be higher than Eli Manning's career completion percentage.
Given Reese's 3rd round track record, I wouldn't get worked up about it.
Yes he could be the answer in 2-3 years but he could also be another Nassib. A mediocre hat wearing clipboard holding QB that never gets in the game.
I think they are close but need OL help, LB and maybe RB.
Agreed, but I think the Pats traded up and got the OL the Giants were going to look at. Once that happened, the value wasn't there in the 3rd round slot at OL. Nor LB, and as for RB, they can get one tomorrow or just sign Blount. So if their draft board has Webb that high up on it, you take him. I'm just glad they didn't use a first rounder on Mahomes.
I agree that I would rather have Webb with a 3rd than trade picks and take Mahomes.
RE: RE: Again, the reason I'm skeptical is that I can't really recall a QB
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers just off the top of my head
but for the record, 61% would be better than Eli's career completion percent.
Tom Brady is an exception. I mean he was a sixth rounder. Let's be honest. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time.
And Rodgers kind of hovered around where he was at college, IIRC, which is around 65%.
Who cares? My point was even if Webb becomes an NFL starting QB and his completion percent is 61% it will be higher than Eli Manning's career completion percentage.
Given Reese's 3rd round track record, I wouldn't get worked up about it.
You're right that it would be higher than Eli's career completion percentage, but let's be honest: are most of us okay with that? With someone who will throw around 61%? I mean don't you want a more...consistent and accurate QB?
Tomlinson = arm cocked
Webb = Remote officially thrown.
Sorry, but I'm hugely disappointed with the NYG 2017 draft. Typical JR flubs and reaches. If it wasn't for the OBJ pick he'd be out of the league by now.
RE: RE: Again, the reason I'm skeptical is that I can't really recall a QB
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
The kid has a gun. If he can be molded we've got our QB of the future. If not we've done no worse than in many past drafts in which our 3rd rounders failed. And that would be possible if we took Asiata or any of the other guys you are high on.
lorenzen (UDFA, 2004), woodson (6th, 2008) bohmar (5th, 2009), nassib (4th, 2013), webb (3rd, 2017). our GM loves wasting picks on QBs who suck and are never long for the team. and he is now burning day one picks to continue with this? i'll admit i don't know the first thing about davis, but with reese's track record how could you not doubt it? the only position he's fucked up as consistently as QB is LB. i like the first two picks in this draft well enough but this drafting shitty QBs every 4 years with increasingly high picks has got to stop. for the love of god. lorenzen was the best of the bunch.
Operative quote: "I admit I don't know the first thing about davis..."
RE: Eli thinks and processes information very fast.
Why would you say this? Everything I have read says the kid is very smart and a student of the game. His dad is a coach. Read Dave Te, Sy, ESPN, etc. He's a really smart kid. Big, great arm, smart, and athletic.
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
And if opportunity strikes again next year, hell, I'd pick up another QB.
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
Webb was starting and got hurt. So Mahomes came in and finished the season. So they went into competition in the fall of the next season and Mahommes won the job. Webb went with his old coach Dykes to Cal.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Again, the reason I'm skeptical is that I can't really recall a QB
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
You said you couldn't think of any examples and I gave you 2.5. It happens.
seems like a nice kid, tall and kind of lanky. It looks like he needs to put some muscle and weight on, as well; kind of like a guy named Brady coming out of college. Anyway, it will be interesting to see him develop.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again, the reason I'm skeptical is that I can't really recall a QB
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
You said you couldn't think of any examples and I gave you 2.5. It happens.
OK, how about a semi-DRAMATIC increase in completion percentage? Brady is the exception of all exceptions. Warner is also an anomaly.
Why would you say this? Everything I have read says the kid is very smart and a student of the game. His dad is a coach. Read Dave Te, Sy, ESPN, etc. He's a really smart kid. Big, great arm, smart, and athletic.
In comment 13451244 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipaction.
"
California quarterback Davis Webb, believed by some teams to be a first-round caliber passer, went to the Giants with the 87th overall pick on Friday. Webb is the highest passer taken by the Giants since 2004, when the team picked Philip Rivers and swapped him for Manning in the first round.
A transfer out of Texas Tech -- Webb battled eventual first-round pick Patrick Mahomes for a starting spot -- Webb replaced last year's No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff at Cal and posted 4,295 yards and 37 touchdowns in 2016.
"We thought he had the best arm in the draft this year," Giants general manager Jerry Reese told reporters. He added: "He has a high ceiling that can develop behind (Eli Manning)."
Nassib is hilarious. He was a high rated QB that fell to the 4th and we traded up for. He ENDED UP as a backup. But everyone who defended it was saying we just took Eli's successor/trade bait to land us a haul of draft picks.
Same shit here with this kid.
Nassib was a value pick, who Reese himself said at the time he was drafted that he hopes he never plays. The biggest hope for the Giants was that if Eli got hurt and he had to go in for a few games, he would do well and become trade bait. Prior to Nassib, they were paying millions for Carr to hold a clip board and get a beating in the pre-season behind the 3rd string OL. The front office figured they might as well save some money and let Nassib do that and hope that they might get something to possibly trade down the line.
Football Sense- Webb is a student of the game, but you can see a bit of a gambler in him on the field, even though he does a good job of scanning the field. He is quick to make his decisions and has excellent poise to stand tall under the fierce rush. Even though he is cool under pressure, he can frustrate a coach by trying for force his deep ball. Its not just for the sake of making the play, but he could do a better job of resetting his base before throwing on the move, as that does lead to costly interceptions. He has shown marked improvement the second half of 2016 with his progression reads and is alert to zone coverage. With the way he can easily draw up plays in pressure situations, there is no question that he can handle and digest a complicated playbook.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again, the reason I'm skeptical is that I can't really recall a QB
who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
You said you couldn't think of any examples and I gave you 2.5. It happens.
OK, how about a semi-DRAMATIC increase in completion percentage? Brady is the exception of all exceptions. Warner is also an anomaly.
I admittedly don't have time to fish for dramatic ones besides Brady, but considering I found a few increases in maybe 5-10 minutes of searching, I'm confident there are at least a few instances. Eli has a 59.7% career completion percentage, btw, so I think we can work with 61%.
seems like a nice kid, tall and kind of lanky. It looks like he needs to put some muscle and weight on, as well; kind of like a guy named Brady coming out of college. Anyway, it will be interesting to see him develop.
is he has a ton of college experience. Also, played in high octane passing attacks, similar to what he will be asked to do in NFL.
He is probably the most NFL ready of the QBs, except maybe Mahomes. So he is a good backup and he saves you a couple of million each year. Outside chance he develops into a decent starter.
Nassib is hilarious. He was a high rated QB that fell to the 4th and we traded up for. He ENDED UP as a backup. But everyone who defended it was saying we just took Eli's successor/trade bait to land us a haul of draft picks.
Same shit here with this kid.
Nassib was a value pick, who Reese himself said at the time he was drafted that he hopes he never plays. The biggest hope for the Giants was that if Eli got hurt and he had to go in for a few games, he would do well and become trade bait. Prior to Nassib, they were paying millions for Carr to hold a clip board and get a beating in the pre-season behind the 3rd string OL. The front office figured they might as well save some money and let Nassib do that and hope that they might get something to possibly trade down the line.
Carr was generally dirt cheap for a vet back up.
The only vet back-up they ever really paid good money to was Rosenfels, for one year.
I was listening to NFL Radio on Sirius today and they were talking about Webb and the Senior Bowl. They said that when Webb came in the coach (the Stanford guy maybe) completely changed the offensive attack, because Webb could make a lot more throws than the other QB's. This is the game Webb was the MVP on.
Also please remember that he was starting at Texas Tech before he popped out his shoulder, which brought Mahomes in the game. Yes Mahomes won the job in the fall in a close race, but TT has a unique system. Webb went to Cal and dominated, following Goff there. So just because Mahomes won the job, this doesn't necessarily mean he's a better NFL prospect. Look at the previous TT QB's, very few translate into the NFL. Cal QB's do.
And if opportunity strikes again next year, hell, I'd pick up another QB.
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
Got injured and then Mahomes went on to throw 16 TDs to like 2 picks in 4 games. They then battled it out and Mahomes barely won it. Interesring fact that Mayfield from Oklahoma transferred because Webb beat him out after he got hurt. He will be a top 3 round QB next year. TT had some players at QB!
And if opportunity strikes again next year, hell, I'd pick up another QB.
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
Webb was starting and got hurt. So Mahomes came in and finished the season. So they went into competition in the fall of the next season and Mahommes won the job. Webb went with his old coach Dykes to Cal.
Actually Dykes wasnt his coach ever before he went to Cal. The head coach of TT was his player tho and said this guy is amazing, he is a leader, and has the best work ethic. He came highly recommend and said he thought they were both amazing players and that they were so close, but Mahomes had more time so he started the younger player.
I wouldn't be so quick to condemn it. There are at least some folks whose views I respect who think Webb may be the goods. Joe Montana was late 3d round and the 4th QB taken that year. It does happen.
Their next QB. We got a comparable prospect late in the 3rd round. Great value and clearly bpa. I doubt anyone left was going to step in and start this year on the OL anyway, plus I think some of the guys being discussed will still be there on our 4th pick. Great value and worth the pick/gamble.
Probably, yeh. But that doesn't make this a bad pick. QBs don't come easy, you have to take chances and invest resources into finding one. Every year that we wait before Eli retires, the cost goes up.
Their next QB. We got a comparable prospect late in the 3rd round. Great value and clearly bpa. I doubt anyone left was going to step in and start this year on the OL anyway, plus I think some of the guys being discussed will still be there on our 4th pick. Great value and worth the pick/gamble.
Please show me where the Bears, Chiefs, and Texans transferred because the completion was too tough
I wouldn't be so quick to condemn it. There are at least some folks whose views I respect who think Webb may be the goods. Joe Montana was late 3d round and the 4th QB taken that year. It does happen.
That said ... did I say I didn't see it coming?
He's a classless jerk who would sell any team out to make a buck. His history proves this
to warm up to this pick. Admittedly, it's because of the position, not the player. I would have prefer drafting for Eli's last championship instead of Eli's last season, if that makes sense. Also, if I'm being honest, a lot of it is a refusal to accept Eli's career is coming to an end.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
is he has a ton of college experience. Also, played in high octane passing attacks, similar to what he will be asked to do in NFL.
He is probably the most NFL ready of the QBs, except maybe Mahomes. So he is a good backup and he saves you a couple of million each year. Outside chance he develops into a decent starter.
How the fuck can ANYONE say its an outside chance he will be a starter?!?! tom brady was a 7th round pick like wtf....guys this isnt an exact science. you evaluate talent and if the value is there when you pick you make it to better your roster and franchise. this is a top 5 QB in the draft. some say he should have went much higher and clearly the giants couldnt pass up the opportunity...jesus at this point i hope he becomes our starter and actually polays well just to shut some of you up. its insane to think that its an outside chance...the guy has 2-3 years on the bench much like rodgers...who fucking knows. rodgers had a ton of flaws coming into the pros and now what? take a fucking breather here people
Also coming off his worst season since his maturation. I don't think there's any hidden info here.
Another point, while Eli has been durable, that may change as he enters his late 30s. Having a competent backup is much more important to the Giants success than it has been in the past.
RE: OK ... well I didn't see the racist-against-Hawaiians allegation
I wouldn't expect folks to follow the recruiting of a graduate senior to a borderline irreplaceable school (that became top 10) but our starting QB was hawiian and classless Davis Webb expected to walk all over him until...
SYDNEY Davis Webb threw four touchdown passes and ran for another score in a sensational debut for California, leading the Bears to a 51-31 win over Hawaii on Saturday in college football's season opener at Sydney's Olympic stadium.
Khalfani Muhammad had 94 yards rushing and one touchdown, and Chad Hansen had 14 receptions for 160 yards and two scores to help Cal win the game played Down Under as a tourism initiative and to increase awareness of "gridiron" in the country.
The teams provided plenty of early entertainment for unfamiliar fans, scoring two touchdowns each by midway through the opening quarter.
But Webb, the graduate transfer from Texas Tech replacing Jared Goff the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick by the Los Angeles Rams helped move Cal into control in the second quarter.
Hawaii fumbled on a kickoff following Matt Anderson's second field goal for Cal, and Webb's 34-yard pass to wide Hansen on the next play gave Cal a 27-14 lead.
Webb got into the act himself, rushing three yards off-tackle for another Cal touchdown and a 34-14 halftime lead. Webb was 38 for 54 and 441 yards total passing with no interceptions.
to warm up to this pick. Admittedly, it's because of the position, not the player. I would have prefer drafting for Eli's last championship instead of Eli's last season, if that makes sense. Also, if I'm being honest, a lot of it is a refusal to accept Eli's career is coming to an end.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
I can't fathom why some people think Eli is going to be one of those guys they have to tear the jersey off of. The people who would possibly know what his timeframe is are also the ones making the draft decisions. For all we know, they already know when he wants to get out. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who wants to play until he's 43.
It's great that he's so healthy. It also means he's got a ton of wear on the tires. He's earned the right to go out on his terms. That doesn't always mean he wants to play until he's 42 like Favre did.
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
It is, but some correct.. he was committed to Colorado and SR QB Sefo was better than expected, but he wasnt signed, didnt need a release, and ultimately thought going to be in the same offense with Dykes and Spav was in his best interest. His HC recommended him to Dykes and vise versa. He was transferring to start to give him a shot at the NFL and thought going to battle a 3 year starter in a new offense wasnt the best move.
Telling us we got a first round talent in the 3rd round. Just like they did with Nassib. we probably got a 6th round talent in the 3dd- just like we got with Nassib
SYDNEY Davis Webb threw four touchdown passes and ran for another score in a sensational debut for California, leading the Bears to a 51-31 win over Hawaii on Saturday in college football's season opener at Sydney's Olympic stadium.
Khalfani Muhammad had 94 yards rushing and one touchdown, and Chad Hansen had 14 receptions for 160 yards and two scores to help Cal win the game played Down Under as a tourism initiative and to increase awareness of "gridiron" in the country.
The teams provided plenty of early entertainment for unfamiliar fans, scoring two touchdowns each by midway through the opening quarter.
But Webb, the graduate transfer from Texas Tech replacing Jared Goff the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick by the Los Angeles Rams helped move Cal into control in the second quarter.
Hawaii fumbled on a kickoff following Matt Anderson's second field goal for Cal, and Webb's 34-yard pass to wide Hansen on the next play gave Cal a 27-14 lead.
Webb got into the act himself, rushing three yards off-tackle for another Cal touchdown and a 34-14 halftime lead. Webb was 38 for 54 and 441 yards total passing with no interceptions.
I guess he should've played worse...
RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdniWncWu4
What? First I doubt all this us true, it sounds like fake news to me. Second, to paint this into a racist vs Hawains thing is pathetic. Typical slander.
SYDNEY Davis Webb threw four touchdown passes and ran for another score in a sensational debut for California, leading the Bears to a 51-31 win over Hawaii on Saturday in college football's season opener at Sydney's Olympic stadium.
Khalfani Muhammad had 94 yards rushing and one touchdown, and Chad Hansen had 14 receptions for 160 yards and two scores to help Cal win the game played Down Under as a tourism initiative and to increase awareness of "gridiron" in the country.
The teams provided plenty of early entertainment for unfamiliar fans, scoring two touchdowns each by midway through the opening quarter.
But Webb, the graduate transfer from Texas Tech replacing Jared Goff the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick by the Los Angeles Rams helped move Cal into control in the second quarter.
Hawaii fumbled on a kickoff following Matt Anderson's second field goal for Cal, and Webb's 34-yard pass to wide Hansen on the next play gave Cal a 27-14 lead.
Webb got into the act himself, rushing three yards off-tackle for another Cal touchdown and a 34-14 halftime lead. Webb was 38 for 54 and 441 yards total passing with no interceptions.
Yes, that's exactly the type of inside, to the core, bone rattling information that I was referring too..........
RE: RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
No, but racism is a serious allegation
RE: RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
the north jersey Hawaiian association must be storming the gates of MetLife as we speak. I'm selling my season tix, if I can even get rid of them, after this franchise brought shame to us all
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
It is, but some correct.. he was committed to Colorado and SR QB Sefo was better than expected, but he wasnt signed, didnt need a release, and ultimately thought going to be in the same offense with Dykes and Spav was in his best interest. His HC recommended him to Dykes and vise versa. He was transferring to start to give him a shot at the NFL and thought going to battle a 3 year starter in a new offense wasnt the best move.
Fair enough account...Amtoft, would you trust Webb after this act? Can he be a leader of men after having committed to a few teams only to abandon them?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Enemy? Bro no one cares about Colorado. They were good this last year because of theu DC and a ton of SR talent. They will be garbage this year and no one will care because it is Colorado.
RE: Don't you think the in-depth analysis scouts do would have uncovered
A scandal with CU if it was true? Of course they would have.
It wasn't really a scandal so much as it was just a lame effort for a player to relieve himself of a commitment to lead. Webb promised the coaching staff that he could be the man to lead them out of mailaize but he buckled under that pressure and Sefo assumed the reigns with great success.
Makes zero sense. Win now mode and we take a DT and QB on draft day two? We have a QB and we have a top ranked defense. I was gonna look past the number two pick but jeeze, a QB project with our third pick? What's the reasoning here? If you Eli is done then why draft a TE with your 1? And if Eli ain't done, and he's clearly not then why draft a QB project at 3?I just don't get it.
He is who I targeted out of all the quarterbacks in this draft as the size and arm strength that Giant's would need for the future. He throws a tight spiral which will help come November and December in MetLife stadium. He loves to study film and is very willing to work on his craft.
He is a solid pick in the 3rd round and can be the starter in years to come.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Enemy? Bro no one cares about Colorado. They were good this last year because of theu DC and a ton of SR talent. They will be garbage this year and no one will care because it is Colorado.
Classic Sergio Lavrov defense. No one will care because we aren't Alabama.
Makes zero sense. Win now mode and we take a DT and QB on draft day two? We have a QB and we have a top ranked defense. I was gonna look past the number two pick but jeeze, a QB project with our third pick? What's the reasoning here? If you Eli is done then why draft a TE with your 1? And if Eli ain't done, and he's clearly not then why draft a QB project at 3?I just don't get it.
I think you need to look at the DT depth chart. DT was the biggest hole on this team. DT would have made sense in the first round.
QB? I think folks here are in denial about Eli's shelf life.
Makes zero sense. Win now mode and we take a DT and QB on draft day two? We have a QB and we have a top ranked defense. I was gonna look past the number two pick but jeeze, a QB project with our third pick? What's the reasoning here? If you Eli is done then why draft a TE with your 1? And if Eli ain't done, and he's clearly not then why draft a QB project at 3?I just don't get it.
I think you need to look at the DT depth chart. DT was the biggest hole on this team. DT would have made sense in the first round.
QB? I think folks here are in denial about Eli's shelf life.
I'm with you, Eric. All three picks have made sense to me so far People are very invested in their own views about the draft, and that's cool, but sometimes it's not really that complicated.
Makes zero sense. Win now mode and we take a DT and QB on draft day two? We have a QB and we have a top ranked defense. I was gonna look past the number two pick but jeeze, a QB project with our third pick? What's the reasoning here? If you Eli is done then why draft a TE with your 1? And if Eli ain't done, and he's clearly not then why draft a QB project at 3?I just don't get it.
you, in fact, make zero sense.
1. yes, the giants have a QB. he is old, nearing the end of his career.
2. yes, the giants have a top ranked defense - that just lost Hankins. Poof, the giants acquire the more cost effective top run stopper in the draft.
3. a TE was drafted 1 because he's a freak of nature that could thrive in various roles, regardless of who is QB.
quick recap: day 1 contributors in rounds 1/2 ... value to good to pass up on a QB they think could develop (as a "project") for a couple years - at which point the giants could determine if he is Eli's successor, or they need to look elsewhere in order to ensure this team doesn't become the Jaguars/Browns after Eli retires.
quicker recap: it's been a great draft so far.
sorry a DT isn't flashy enough. the silly giants are looking beyond 2017 with this draft - as they should, while still adding 2 guys that'll contribute week 1.
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
It is, but some correct.. he was committed to Colorado and SR QB Sefo was better than expected, but he wasnt signed, didnt need a release, and ultimately thought going to be in the same offense with Dykes and Spav was in his best interest. His HC recommended him to Dykes and vise versa. He was transferring to start to give him a shot at the NFL and thought going to battle a 3 year starter in a new offense wasnt the best move.
Fair enough account...Amtoft, would you trust Webb after this act? Can he be a leader of men after having committed to a few teams only to abandon them?
He is a great leader. Look he was committed to TT and played great there. He beat out Brad Mayfield who transferred to Oklahoma. I dont knock Mayfield for wanting to start. Webb played a whole year as Mahomes backup his JR year as a good team player. I dont knock kids for wanting to start and give themselves a chance to make the NFL. He didnt leave TT as the starter like say Russell Wilson did to North Carolina State. He left it with JR QB Mahomes. Cal wasnt an option when he committed to Colorado. They weren't sure if that was the direction they wanted to go. He committed to CO because he was told their 3 year starter was hurt and would be out for the year. When word came out he wasnt that hurt the TT coach called Dykes and said this is a good kid and you will love him. It actually took a lot for him to change his mind because he did want to go CO where he was committed, but i dont blame the kid. Cal was a better fit with familiarity with the OC and HC in that offense. The offensive talent at Cal was far superior, they just had the #1 pick in the draft and was offered keys to drive the offense and he took it. I dont blame players ever for doing what is right for them.
He is a great kid. I have talked to him and he loves football. He studies football all the time. Players loved him and how hard he worked. He is a great kid. High level character and leader.
to warm up to this pick. Admittedly, it's because of the position, not the player. I would have prefer drafting for Eli's last championship instead of Eli's last season, if that makes sense. Also, if I'm being honest, a lot of it is a refusal to accept Eli's career is coming to an end.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
I can't fathom why some people think Eli is going to be one of those guys they have to tear the jersey off of. The people who would possibly know what his timeframe is are also the ones making the draft decisions. For all we know, they already know when he wants to get out. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who wants to play until he's 43.
It's great that he's so healthy. It also means he's got a ton of wear on the tires. He's earned the right to go out on his terms. That doesn't always mean he wants to play until he's 42 like Favre did.
I can't tell if you're echoing what I'm saying, or misunderstanding it, but you and I completely see eye to eye. I wouldn't be shocked if Eli said that this is his last contract, or something to that effect. It would explain this sudden urgency for a QB (and if they were going to trade up for Mahomes, and settled for Webb, that does suggest urgency). My point was simply he's earned the right to call his own shot.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Davis Webb is racist against Hawaiians?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Enemy? Bro no one cares about Colorado. They were good this last year because of theu DC and a ton of SR talent. They will be garbage this year and no one will care because it is Colorado.
Classic Sergio Lavrov defense. No one will care because we aren't Alabama.
How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
No no no... we dont care because you have only been in the Pac-12 for a min. Do something, get a rivalry that matters, get some time in the league. You arent USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, Washington... you are Utah only they at least are good every year not a one year thing
DT was the biggest hole on the Giants? What about RB? We going all the way with Perk this year? Vareen gonna play in more than 8 games this year? Oh that's right, we're gonna sign Blount because guys that leave NE always pan out. And I'm not in denial about Eli. He's got two or three good years left and signing a QB project with our third pick in the draft makes no sense. Should have picked a RB.
DT was the biggest hole on the Giants? What about RB? We going all the way with Perk this year? Vareen gonna play in more than 8 games this year? Oh that's right, we're gonna sign Blount because guys that leave NE always pan out. And I'm not in denial about Eli. He's got two or three good years left and signing a QB project with our third pick in the draft makes no sense. Should have picked a RB.
The RB class is stacked... Mack, McNichols, Hill, I'tavius, Samaje, Conner, my favorite Elijah Hood, etc... the one place we could wait is RB. Davis was being talked about maybe slipping into the first round. Late in the 3rd is a steal. His potential is huge with that arm and the work he will put in. This couldn't be a better spot for him
DT was the biggest need on the team and it's not even close.
Quantity. We only have three on the roster.
Quality. Two of the three are journeymen. If Harrison gets hurt, we have nothing.
I don't get it. We had a top ranked defense. How could DT be our biggest need? TE and RB are our biggest need. Our offense was pathetic last year. Anyway, I didn't love the second pick but hey, he's a run stopper and we lost Hank. Seems like a quality young man. Ok. But this QB, can you really say this is a best available player pick? I can't. We'll see. We shall see.
DT was the biggest hole on the Giants? What about RB? We going all the way with Perk this year? Vareen gonna play in more than 8 games this year? Oh that's right, we're gonna sign Blount because guys that leave NE always pan out. And I'm not in denial about Eli. He's got two or three good years left and signing a QB project with our third pick in the draft makes no sense. Should have picked a RB.
The RB class is stacked... Mack, McNichols, Hill, I'tavius, Samaje, Conner, my favorite Elijah Hood, etc... the one place we could wait is RB. Davis was being talked about maybe slipping into the first round. Late in the 3rd is a steal. His potential is huge with that arm and the work he will put in. This couldn't be a better spot for him
Ok then, this makes me feel better actually. Hope he's the goods. And I hope we get a good RB.
a QB they thought would be long gone fell into their laps in the 3rd, they pounced.
mediocre OL class means you look elsewhere. Asiata is not a fit in this offense, and I highly doubt anyone on the board will be a contributor day 1 ... in those situations, roll the dice on a potential franchise QB
to warm up to this pick. Admittedly, it's because of the position, not the player. I would have prefer drafting for Eli's last championship instead of Eli's last season, if that makes sense. Also, if I'm being honest, a lot of it is a refusal to accept Eli's career is coming to an end.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
I can't fathom why some people think Eli is going to be one of those guys they have to tear the jersey off of. The people who would possibly know what his timeframe is are also the ones making the draft decisions. For all we know, they already know when he wants to get out. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who wants to play until he's 43.
It's great that he's so healthy. It also means he's got a ton of wear on the tires. He's earned the right to go out on his terms. That doesn't always mean he wants to play until he's 42 like Favre did.
I can't tell if you're echoing what I'm saying, or misunderstanding it, but you and I completely see eye to eye. I wouldn't be shocked if Eli said that this is his last contract, or something to that effect. It would explain this sudden urgency for a QB (and if they were going to trade up for Mahomes, and settled for Webb, that does suggest urgency). My point was simply he's earned the right to call his own shot.
Does Webb care about winning? If so, why did he choose a team that got their brains beat out while CU became a top 15 team?
Johnathan Hankins left. Jay Bromley and Robert Thomas barely played. Without Tomlinson, one of those two would be starting.
And if Harrison tore his ACL, our defense could actually fall apart.
I would argue Harrison may be the most important player on the team outside of Odell Beckham.
I certainly see your point. Still think we need a RB to make plays out of the backfield. The defense was spectacular last season and that wasn't enough. I'm okay with the DT at 2. Its the QB at 3 I'm not sure about about.
...but I'm a believer in pocket passers with nuanced mobility and the ability to extend and improvise rather than scramblers or loose cannons. I'd rather have Webb to develop behind Eli for a couple of seasons than Mahomes.
is mahomes that much of a better prospect? simply asking because I'm shocked at their respective draft prices ... I thought Webb was going 1st round to Houston
BUT we need a GOOD RB and a stout OLine more than we need another QB. Unless they know they can't protect Eli and are stacking the position because they know they are getting Eli beat up.
Let's try filling the holes we have first ok?
Actually it sucks. When do we fix that? Is the plan to carry 4 QB's because they can't do anything to improve the line? We can wait on RB? Really? Who can we draft that will move the pile and still run like a deer?
I'm fine with the DT. But with the third we have other needs greater than a questionable QB.
Typical Reese 3rd round pick.
Actually it sucks. When do we fix that? Is the plan to carry 4 QB's because they can't do anything to improve the line? We can wait on RB? Really? Who can we draft that will move the pile and still run like a deer?
I'm fine with the DT. But with the third we have other needs greater than a questionable QB.
Typical Reese 3rd round pick.
So your philosophy is picking base off need. That's not how good teams build their roster, but carry on.
I just read that the Giants think Webb has the best arm in the draft?
Then how come they were burning up the phone lines to trade up for Mahomes? Defies logic.....
Because while arm is important, it isn't the only thing. To me you have to make an NFL throw or you can't make it. You have to throw accurately. You have to be a leader and take command of your team. You have to have a quick release. You have to make quick decisions. You have to work harder especially in the film room than any other position. You have to handle pressure. You have to read defenses. You have to make progressions. There is a lot to playing QB. I had Trubisky as a top 15 QB. I had Mahomes slightly ahead of Webb as a late first and Webb as a mid to late 2nd rounder. I had everyone else as 4th rounders or later.
Good size, great arm, coach's kid and a gym rat. He's also an outstanding value in the 3rd round. He'll have 2 - 3 years to learn before taking over for Eli.
I get that many on BBI are disappointed that this doesn't fill an immediate need, but you've got to think about the future and not just next season.
And speaking of the future...since I believe that Webb will one day be the starting QB, I fully expect that this thread will be archived. So I'd like to give a shout out to my future self. I hope things worked out for you ;>)
how many posters put total faith and belief in the front office's evaluation of players, except when it comes to Eli. The same posters who will say "they are the professionals, and if they like the guy, we should trust them!" Then they come on the board and say "Eli has at least 4-5 productive years left and is at the top of his game."
There could not be a clearer signal that the front office believes Eli's shelf life is short. It is prudent for them to plan based on that. They need someone who is ready to play after a couple of watching and learning. We can argue all day about whether or not Webb is that guy, but a guy was needed and this is the one the front office liked.
And for the "win now" folks confused by the pick - who was on the board late in the third round that was going to make this team noticeably better this year and next? I'll stop you right there...there wasn't one. You don't get "win now" talent late in the third round unless you trip over a lottery ticket.
We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
how many posters put total faith and belief in the front office's evaluation of players, except when it comes to Eli. The same posters who will say "they are the professionals, and if they like the guy, we should trust them!" Then they come on the board and say "Eli has at least 4-5 productive years left and is at the top of his game."
There could not be a clearer signal that the front office believes Eli's shelf life is short. It is prudent for them to plan based on that. They need someone who is ready to play after a couple of watching and learning. We can argue all day about whether or not Webb is that guy, but a guy was needed and this is the one the front office liked.
And for the "win now" folks confused by the pick - who was on the board late in the third round that was going to make this team noticeably better this year and next? I'll stop you right there...there wasn't one. You don't get "win now" talent late in the third round unless you trip over a lottery ticket.
Right on cue, Britt barrels in with "fuck this pick" lol.
We've done well with racist QBs in the past. Kerry Collins turned this franchise around. Too much kumbaya from the incumbent (an Ole Miss kid, no less!).
We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Settle down. We all know you are anti-Reese, but QB is absolutely a need.
I read that Eli is 7th all time in NFL pass attempts, 7th! Eli is my favorite athlete of all time, but he is 36 and has a ton of wear & tear on that arm.
How many developmental QB's have the Patriots taken? Who would have thought Dak would be what he is. I don't want another post Simms transition. This division has 2 young QB's in Dak & Wentz, and Cousins has proven he can win the division. Giants need to start thinking about the transition, and if the value was there, why not? They didn't mortgage a future first rounder for this pick.
Also, for all the shit the Nassib pick gets, he was a serviceable backup. I don't care who your starting QB is, teams always need a developmental QB that knows the offense. I completely understand the pick.
I'm anti-not having anybody past the 2nd round make it to a second contract over the better part of 10 years.
I don't pretend to know who we should have taken, I just know that we needed somebody that has the potential to contribute on offense now. Not in three years (maybe).
but I saw an interesting video of Colin Cowherd talking about Webb. They were asking if he was a future premier QB and Colin made a good point. He said that QB is one of those positions where almost every single good QB is a 1st round pick or very close to one. He said finding QBs out of the top round is almost a fluke. Outside of Dak/Russel Wilson/Brady/Romo - look at every other good QB. And this isn't a small sample size...
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
but I saw an interesting video of Colin Cowherd talking about Webb. They were asking if he was a future premier QB and Colin made a good point. He said that QB is one of those positions where almost every single good QB is a 1st round pick or very close to one. He said finding QBs out of the top round is almost a fluke. Outside of Dak/Russel Wilson/Brady/Romo - look at every other good QB. And this isn't a small sample size...
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
I don't buy this. There have been a ton of first round busts too.
We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
Well, yeah, great. It's easy, we'll be just like the Patriots.
Why is it that teams like the Eagles and Patriots can take these project/prospect QB's and end up getting picks for them, then ask yourself what have we gotten in return for all of our project QB's over the past 10 years?
Frigging AJ Feely, 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb was traded for DRC AND a 2nd round pick! What did the Pats get Matt Cassel? A first rounder? High second? What are they going to get for Garrapolo?
but I saw an interesting video of Colin Cowherd talking about Webb. They were asking if he was a future premier QB and Colin made a good point. He said that QB is one of those positions where almost every single good QB is a 1st round pick or very close to one. He said finding QBs out of the top round is almost a fluke. Outside of Dak/Russel Wilson/Brady/Romo - look at every other good QB. And this isn't a small sample size...
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
Counterpoints to a not unfair argument:
1. #3 round isnt a middle round, and each prospect needs to be considered on his own.
2. The exception is becoming increasingly common
3. Many of the top QBs are #1 overall picks -- so should we just wait until we're the worst team in the NFL.
4. I havent dont a deep dive but there are a LOT of valueless QB picks in the first and second rounds, particularly outside of the very top picks. It's hardly just midround QBs who routinely dont pan out. And blown #1s and #2s are far costlier, obviously.
5. If you hit on a QB in the 3rd round (or later), it provides a massive cap advantage.
6. You need a backup QB. Giants fans forget this because Eli has been so durable. If you dont have a playable QB, you're done. So a 3rd rounder seems appropriate.
We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
Well, yeah, great. It's easy, we'll be just like the Patriots.
Why is it that teams like the Eagles and Patriots can take these project/prospect QB's and end up getting picks for them, then ask yourself what have we gotten in return for all of our project QB's over the past 10 years?
Frigging AJ Feely, 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb was traded for DRC AND a 2nd round pick! What did the Pats get Matt Cassel? A first rounder? High second? What are they going to get for Garrapolo?
Because their QBs get hurt/suspended, giving backups a chance to shine?
you make a fantastic point that so many on BBI forget. The importance of a developmental backup QB who knows the offense.
Jerry Reese said he hoped that Nassib would NEVER play, but a developmental backup was a position of need after David Carr left (who was a very serviceable backup). Nassib was a solid backup for us. That isn't a meaningless position.
but I saw an interesting video of Colin Cowherd talking about Webb. They were asking if he was a future premier QB and Colin made a good point. He said that QB is one of those positions where almost every single good QB is a 1st round pick or very close to one. He said finding QBs out of the top round is almost a fluke. Outside of Dak/Russel Wilson/Brady/Romo - look at every other good QB. And this isn't a small sample size...
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
Counterpoints to a not unfair argument:
1. #3 round isnt a middle round, and each prospect needs to be considered on his own.
2. The exception is becoming increasingly common
3. Many of the top QBs are #1 overall picks -- so should we just wait until we're the worst team in the NFL.
4. I havent dont a deep dive but there are a LOT of valueless QB picks in the first and second rounds, particularly outside of the very top picks. It's hardly just midround QBs who routinely dont pan out. And blown #1s and #2s are far costlier, obviously.
5. If you hit on a QB in the 3rd round (or later), it provides a massive cap advantage.
6. You need a backup QB. Giants fans forget this because Eli has been so durable. If you dont have a playable QB, you're done. So a 3rd rounder seems appropriate.
Ryan Mallett (who might not be the worst comp, physically, for Webb) got dumped for a sixth rounder after they spent a highish third on him. They aren't trading Jimmy G.
At the end of the day, really, it's a third round pick. The overreactions on both sides to this are silly. It likely won't amount to anything more than a cheap backup (sorry Brady/Rodgers/Montana/Palmer/Big Ben comps in this thread alone), but if not even that happens, whatever -- this is the point in the draft where you can take a risk and, if your team is run competently, you can easily survive it.
I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Little extreme but pretty accurate.
It's funny how a lot of posters change their position after the fact to coincide w the Giants company line. Several talented CBS went right after this shit pick that would've got Trevin Wade/Leon Hall off the field -- Jordon Lewis, Rasul Douglas, Cameron Sutton, etc. Could've made a very talented unit absolutely stacked and unfortunately a few went to division rivals.
The consistently good teams in this league hit on mid to late rounders with greater consistency than the rest of the league. Reese needs to get his shit together in this regard.
I recognize Eli is on the tail end of his career. But, this was not the year to draft a QB for several reasons. One, there are actually pressing needs we need to fill. The first two picks did just that. Two, based on the cap, Eli's likelihood to restructure one more time, his desire to play more than a couple of years the timing doesn't work out. Three, something tells me they don't really believe this is thE heir apparent. So, why make the pick in a year we don't need a QB?
The only thing I can think of is they plan on him being the #2, potentially saving a drop against the cap having a rookie as the backup.
A pick like this would have made more sense next year
We've done well with racist QBs in the past. Kerry Collins turned this franchise around. Too much kumbaya from the incumbent (an Ole Miss kid, no less!).
We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
This is a good argument for supporting this draft pick. We all know Patriots have the smartest guys running an NFL team, so copying them can't be a bad thing.
I just don't agree with the timing (round spent and this year). His rookie deal could be up before Eli is done, which would essentially mean it could be a wasted pick.
As a big Eli fan, I'm concerned with what has been going with him the last few seasons.
Taking Webb is a calculated risk. It looks like he's a difficult prospect to scout because his college tape is working in two weird or at least non-NFL-like offensive systems, but his physical and mental characteristics cry out NFL QB and taking him this year allows a molding and developmental process to occur on a reasonable schedule. Also, The Giants will know a lot more about their QB situation circa 2020 by next year, partly because Webb will have been working in the system for a year already.
1) Its likely none of the OL players there would step in this season and help anyway (so the win now theory really doesn't apply)
2) This pick was tremendous value. KC, CHicago, and Houston all mortgaged their futures to grab QB's that are roughly the same as Webb. In fact, IMO, Webb has a bigger upside.
3) I believe any of the OL players that folks are talking about, such as McDermott and Asiata, will still be there in the 4th (and maybe 5th).
So its a great value pick, and in a later round where the chances are we wouldn't get a player who can do anything for us this year anyway
Are picking on Webb for some of the same issues that plague Eli.
Elis been hot and cold many times. He's been clutch a lot but he also has significant accuracy and timing problems even to this day.
I'm not really sold on Elis ability to throw a good deep ball anymore and I am curious to see how he throws the seam and the out routes now with Engram and Marshall here.
All QBs need playing time and some bullets flying around them. And I am not talking about 2 qtrs of a preseason game where they play with 4 starters and against even less. They need regular season snaps, and some time reading defenses and making throws. Hell, I would be fine if Webb played 85% of the snaps this pre-season!
Not saying I want Webb starting games or coming in when its 21-14 with 10 minute left, but McAdoo has to be more judicial with 4qtr snaps now that Eli is getting on in age.
Last thing I want to hear 2 years from now is..."we still do not know what we have in Davis Webb".
and like it more the more I look at Webb and read about him. Smart, confident without being cocky, can make all the throws, has a nice touch when he needs to use it (doesn't just throw it as hard as he can all the time).
I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. I am wondering what turned other teams off.
So my guess is that Geno is still the game backup this season
unless of course Webb progresses very fast. Webb will be "redshirted" this year with an eye towards next season. By this I mean if Eli goes down I bet Geno comes in not Webb this season.
originally. Wow what a QB trio they had; Webb, Mahomes, Mayfield. Mayfield of course transferred to OU. I don't blame Webb for transferring. He lost his job because of injury initially. I also don't ding him for losing out to Mahomes. Mahomes is another top QB, and his style is a better fit for the TT offensive plan. I think Webb could be the better NFL prospect though, i guess we will see. All I know is we got Webb for a 3rd round pick, KC gave away the farm for Mahomes.
You probably don't know how valuable a guy like this can be in the locker room, in the film room and at practice. He'll make everyone around him better. He'll help younger players develop. And just maybe he can take the reins in a few years. But even if he never sees the field... trust me this guy won't be a total waste.
As I mentioned previously I was not in favor of picking a QB.
However, I am appalled by the comments on the site. People are making the most outlandish statements that could be considered slanderous.
What you can say definitively is that Webb has the physical characteristics to play in the NFL. If the Giants can mold him into a starting quality QB he will be a steal.
If not they will select another QB.
Webb has a high ceiling and a low floor.
RE: I just read that the Giants think Webb has the best arm in the draft?
...I don't believe most people are surprised. At least not those that paid attention. They may not like it but this was in the wind for a while with Garafolo and others on it and the Giants themselves indicating they were open to it during the process.
"Obviously, it gives you a little bit of a cushion and some breathing room, vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross said. You saw what happened in the first round, teams trading up everything to get those guys. We feel we have a fairly equal talent at the bottom of the third compared to some of the guys that went pretty high.
I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
Also agree, but in defense of those critics, Reese's QB selections (Bomar, Woodson, and Nassib) didn't exactly become great players. It's just more urgent now because Eli is reaching the end. Not there yet, but it's getting close.
RE: I agree 100% with this statement from Ross on ESPN
"Obviously, it gives you a little bit of a cushion and some breathing room, vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross said. You saw what happened in the first round, teams trading up everything to get those guys. We feel we have a fairly equal talent at the bottom of the third compared to some of the guys that went pretty high.
Ross is just saying what he needs to say to cover his ass for what will be perceived as a dumb draft, how serious were they about getting Eli's replacement by waiting until the third round, they should have made whatever move was necessary and moved up to get someone who made sense like the Texans did..
"Obviously, it gives you a little bit of a cushion and some breathing room, vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross said. You saw what happened in the first round, teams trading up everything to get those guys. We feel we have a fairly equal talent at the bottom of the third compared to some of the guys that went pretty high.
Ross is just saying what he needs to say to cover his ass for what will be perceived as a dumb draft, how serious were they about getting Eli's replacement by waiting until the third round, they should have made whatever move was necessary and moved up to get someone who made sense like the Texans did..
There is no urgent need to find Eli's replacement, so why would they have given up multiple first rounders to attempt to do so?
If one fell to them where he was worth the risk and he graded out right, fine (and that's what happened), but the whole point of considering a QB his year was to not have to force it, now or later.
Webb doesn't work out, he doesn't work out, but there's little risk or desperation here.
I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
I think that over simplifies it for many. Also, those of us saying Eli was nearly done were torn apart every week. So they can't love Eli and also think he's almost done, since those seemed to be two different groups during the season. I know when I tried to make an argument for drafting a QB, some people (dpinz whatever his username is) made it personal.
I LOVE Eli and I'm bummed that he's starting to slow down, but at the same time, we need to draft a QB. However, I just don't think that 3rd round is the time to do it. Obviously I'm not in the room with them, but I'm part of the draft a QB high or don't draft one, camp. You find lots of studs drafted in all different rounds at most positions, but QB seems to be pretty skewed towards the top.
And as for people saying there are busts in the 1st too, some people don't understand boolean logic too well. Most successful QBs seem to be drafted high, but that isn't the same thing as saying most QBs drafted high are successful.
I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
I think that over simplifies it for many. Also, those of us saying Eli was nearly done were torn apart every week. So they can't love Eli and also think he's almost done, since those seemed to be two different groups during the season. I know when I tried to make an argument for drafting a QB, some people (dpinz whatever his username is) made it personal.
I LOVE Eli and I'm bummed that he's starting to slow down, but at the same time, we need to draft a QB. However, I just don't think that 3rd round is the time to do it. Obviously I'm not in the room with them, but I'm part of the draft a QB high or don't draft one, camp. You find lots of studs drafted in all different rounds at most positions, but QB seems to be pretty skewed towards the top.
And as for people saying there are busts in the 1st too, some people don't understand boolean logic too well. Most successful QBs seem to be drafted high, but that isn't the same thing as saying most QBs drafted high are successful.
Webb was supposed to be a high pick. I have no idea why he fell but it happens all the time. Essentially we got a borderline 1st rounder for a 3rd round pick. The other teams had to give away future picks to get a QB of what I think is equal value to Webb.
I think this was the perfect setup to get a potential Eli replacement.
in the numerous "will NYG draft a QB" threads that I hoped Webb would be available in the 3rd. This is a terrific pick. We need a backup QB, and we'll need Eli's replacement soon enough. I think Webb may be the guy to fit both.
Nassib was picked in the middle of Eli's career to be a cheap backup. They saw value in the pick versus rating, and took a 4th round swing at making him a backup. It sort of worked. Webb is a guy who is drafted at the end of Eli's career with the point of being the next starter. His stats at Cal were off the chart. He also beat out Mayfield at TT, and was roughly equal to Mahomes.
So while one was a lower pick just made to fill a backup position, the other is a potential 1st rounder who is being groomed to take over.
But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
They probably did and he didn't work out. Most QBs don't work out, or they just settle into backup roles, does that mean we shouldn't be drafting them at all?
I'm anti-not having anybody past the 2nd round make it to a second contract over the better part of 10 years.
I don't pretend to know who we should have taken, I just know that we needed somebody that has the potential to contribute on offense now. Not in three years (maybe).
Oh good another weird arbitrary stat to get angry about.
We're not as bad in the latter rounds as you think, especially lately.
i can see the need to develop a possible starter and start the process of life after eli just think the guy has a few more flaws than could be fixed,we will just need to see how this works out
with new england trading up to snatch garcia who i really wanted there ,once he went i knew i would probably not like the pick there much but would love to be proved wrong in years from now
dont like the pick but dont totally hate it puts alot of pressure on day 3 to fix the OL that hasnt worked well for the OL players since diehl i pray they have diehl 2.0 targeted there with the shaky OL
This team is young, at this point our "2-3 year window" is only predicated on Eli. In regards to the rest of the roster, that window is MUCH longer. It makes sense to prepare of a transition.
Also, going beyond the developmental aspect of the pick, backup QB becomes more and more important as Eli ages. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he won't be as durable as he enters his late 30s. Webb will stricly be a 3rd QB this year, but if they just make contact with this pick, he should fill a pretty big upcoming need as our 2018 backup.
But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So they should never draft a qb again?
I don't love the pick but man some of you get so angry over these mid round picks. And now the whole ten year no second contract thing...Christ. How many mid round picks even get a second contract??
Jake Ballard, Bear pascoe, Paul Perkins, Devon kennard, will tye, and victor cruz say hi by the way. All latter round picks or undrafted. All worthy of second contracts if not for injury. That complaint is just an excuse to complain even if it's rooted in some truth. It's horse crap. And the last few drafts have been good to great.
RE: I'm sorry, I just can't wrap my head around it.
We have a team that we are a few pieces away from winning right now. A 3rd round QB is not part of that equation.
The draft isn't for right now. Are you serious with this? You're going nuts over the giants taking a pretty highly touted qb in round 3 while their current starter is closing in on 40. Again it's not for right now and the draft isn't even over. What if Webb is the goods? The giants obviously had a good grade on him.
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
Last year Cal was replacing not only the #1 pick in the draft at QB, but they lost their top 6 WRs! You are reading that right top 6 WRs all gone... Kenny Lawler Seattle, Stephen Anderson Texans, Trevor Davis Green Bay, Bryce Treggs Philly, Maurice Harris Washington, and of course Darius Powe Giants! They played a ton of FRs last year including super stud Demtrius Robertson who was learning to play WR for the first time. They had a bunch of drops and he lost his top WR Hansen for 2 games. If you put him on the team the year before with all that experienced talent at Cal the year before he is easily a first rounder!
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
As far as BBI is concerned, Eli has been in decline and nearing...
to think that Eli will see every snap over the next 3 years. I really hope he does but we can't bank on his run of durability continuing into his late 30s. A solid backup can very well save our season while we're contending in Eli's window.
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
How much did Bromley see the field in his first year? You act like third rounders play a lot. A lot of times they sit on the bench. If Davis developes and in 2 years is starting our post transition could go smooth or we need a QB. To me worth taking a chance now with only a 3rd rounder.
Our offense doesn't do that anymore, that's why. He threw the deep ball just fine the two years he was breaking records with OBJ, when we still had the Tom Coughlin offense hybrid. We now run a real west coast offense, and the deep ball is not really part of the plan.
Secondly, he's "closing in on 40"? Yeah, if four years away is "closing in. He's 36.
it'd be irresponsible to not look for a successor when your starting QB is 35 years old. I'm not going to get into the semantics into Eli's decline, he's the least of my worries.
to think that Eli will see every snap over the next 3 years. I really hope he does but we can't bank on his run of durability continuing into his late 30s. A solid backup can very well save our season while we're contending in Eli's window.
Based on what? The dude hasn't missed a game since high school.
it'd be irresponsible to not look for a successor when your starting QB is 35 years old. I'm not going to get into the semantics into Eli's decline, he's the least of my worries.
I'm fine with looking for a successor. But if they are truly into finding one, I'd rather they just put their money where there mouth is and take him in Round 1.
I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
I am not seeing who is saying Eli can't throw the deep ball anymore
He didn't really have any options outside of OBJ. Wouldn't you say the front office did a good job of upgrading Eli's choices of weapons? Marshall is a key upgrade over Cruz on the outside, Ellison gives us a versatile blocker - who can also help Flowers, Engram gives us a guy that can fly down the middle and draw safeties away from OBJ, we get a full year of Perkins. Our offense got better, and we took a flyer on a kid who may end up being a good starter down the road.
RE: Based on almost every other human being approaching 40
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
RE: I am not seeing who is saying Eli can't throw the deep ball anymore
He didn't really have any options outside of OBJ. Wouldn't you say the front office did a good job of upgrading Eli's choices of weapons? Marshall is a key upgrade over Cruz on the outside, Ellison gives us a versatile blocker - who can also help Flowers, Engram gives us a guy that can fly down the middle and draw safeties away from OBJ, we get a full year of Perkins. Our offense got better, and we took a flyer on a kid who may end up being a good starter down the road.
But we're talking about his prospects over the next 3 years here, that's what I meant by approaching 40. Webb should redshirt this year, but at 37+ I think the Giants will be well served having a competent backup that knows the system.
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
RE: RE: RE: Based on almost every other human being approaching 40
Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
No offense, but that's a dumb way to look at it.
First of all, not that many Quarterbacks win Superbowls, period.
Secondly, two Quarterbacks over 35 have won Superbowls in the past two years. Your number is wrong.
John Elway won 2 Superbowls over the age of 35. So did Roger Staubach. Kurt Warner got to one, Brett Favre consistently was right there with the opportunity to get one over the age of 35 multiple times. Rich Gannon got there, so did Fran Tarkenton. Johnny Unitas and Jim Plunkett won them.
Age is a number. Performance is the measure, and Eli has not shown any indication of decline yet. The numbers don't reflect it, and his play on the field doesn't reflect it, despite what you read here.
You guys all eat up what Dave Te says about prospects....
To Davis In LA
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:32 pm : link : reply
Mallett, Tony Banks, Cutler, Gabbert - all fine athletes with pro arms, but all the cylinders are not clicking. If Webb is the Giants future, you might want to become a fan of another team. Better than Nassib, but then, that's not saying much. Doubt he sees the field in 2017, hope Geno does not either, as that means Eli is hurting
Quote:
DAVE TE TO PATTERSONPLANK
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:48 pm : link : reply
I scout, I don't draft. If a team likes him, so be it. My reports are based on what I see now & down the road. Now if "everybody" touted him as a 1, why was he there when the Giants pick. As I said, damn the best available athlete line - first three rounds, you fill needs & get those guys playing time. Day 3, find those sleepers.
Geno Smith is no gem, but he's going to be #2. Go look at the 2018 draft & juniors expected to come out. Waste a third this year on a clipboard holder when they need LB, edge, OT help? I believe in value.
D'Onta Foreman, Trey Hendrickson, James Conner, Vince Biegel.
Let's see how these guys do in 3 years compared to Webb, cool?
Again, I'm not against planning for the future. HOWEVER....
if you're going to do it, have some conviction and go up and get a real replacement in the first round. You want Mahomes? Then go up and get him. Kansas City did just that.
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
if you're going to do it, have some conviction and go up and get a real replacement in the first round. You want Mahomes? Then go up and get him. Kansas City did just that.
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
has the size Mahomes is more mobile. This is why he won the job at TT, but that shouldn't sell Webb short. He did beat out Mayfield there. Webb was great at Cal. Both have the best arms in the draft.
Mobility is very important to TT, less so in the NFL. Size takes a bigger role and mobility less. Webb moves ok, just not like Mahomes. For a pro prospect Webb may be a better choice.
Regardless, even though I can sit here and continue comparing, the fact is for two close QBs we used a 3rd round pick and KC gave away a lot of their future. This is a good gamble and excellent value.
Last year Cal was replacing not only the #1 pick in the draft at QB, but they lost their top 6 WRs! You are reading that right top 6 WRs all gone... Kenny Lawler Seattle, Stephen Anderson Texans, Trevor Davis Green Bay, Bryce Treggs Philly, Maurice Harris Washington, and of course Darius Powe Giants! They played a ton of FRs last year including super stud Demtrius Robertson who was learning to play WR for the first time. They had a bunch of drops and he lost his top WR Hansen for 2 games. If you put him on the team the year before with all that experienced talent at Cal the year before he is easily a first rounder!
That is really good info. Thanks!
Has anyone seen a side by side comparison of Webb vs. the QBs picked in the first round? What makes Trubisky and the others so much better than he is?
If they were close, Webb wouldn't have gone in the third.
I think some are being silly, getting worked up over a third round project, where the chance was worth the smaller cost, but he was a third rounder. Not almost a first, not on par with guys who had multiple first traded for them.
This is playing out a lot like the delusion with Nassib where people, til the end, claimed he could have gone in the first his draft year and just wouldn't let go of the he had a second round grade stuff... he went in the fourth for a reason. Webb went in the third for a reason (and no, citing Brady or Prescott outliers don't change that); that's who he is and what the league sees his value as, right now.
Britt, you and I are in sync about Eli..I honestly feel, as you know,
he can play at least another 5 years at a good to high level..Obviously, if the push up the middle that takes him out of his comfort zone (that of stepping up in the pocket) isn't fixed, he might be done in 2 years..Today's nutrition, conditioning and absurd changes in the rules to benefit QBs, are among the big reasons I expect him to play as long as Brady and Brees will and Favre did..Assuming he wants to..
I expect a big year out of Eli, given what we've improved upon (at least on paper)..I understand why they took a QB where they did, albeit not thrilled with it..
Here's where I may differ with you..By all reports, Mahomes, who they ostensibly wanted, is not all that much better than Webb is. We shall see on that. Some scouts have said he's better than Mahomes. Doesn't matter if he is or not. But, it appears that the difference is negligible enough, that to give up what KC did, would be egregious, imo..Those very high picks, are so needed and to give them up, would have been incompetent by Reese..Imo..
RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
drafted QB's. In fact my order, based on NFL potential, would be Mahomes (1a), Webb (1b), Watson, then Trubisky. I think the Bears really hurt themselves. If Trubisky isn't a top QB starter they really screwed up.
Again our downside here is minimal compared to the other three picks, and I don't see much difference.
So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
Actually David, we do not know what's happening with Eli. It's possible he already told the team he only wants another year or two.
Webb's highlights are impressive.
RE: RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
Everybody always points to the Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers succession
The Packers picked Rodgers in the first round, not knowing how much longer Favre was going to play, which ended up being three more years before he "retired".
That's conviction when it comes to finding a real replacement.
The Giants need contributors on offense RIGHT NOW.
They have a championship caliber defense, a HOF franchise Quarterback who can still play at a high level, and arguably the best WR in the league. They are one or two pieces away from being a viable Superbowl contender.
The time to win is now, and pardon me for feeling like it's a dumb move to waste a 3rd round pick on a 3 year project that may or may not pan out.
On the other hand, Jerry Reese has a pretty dreadful track record with everything past the 2nd round anyways, so maybe it didn't matter who we drafted.
RE: RE: RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
I just added it up. 47% (15 of 32) of the starting QBs were not drafted in the 1st round. Players rise and fall for many reasons, some are meaningless. Its not a fact that a QB needs to be taken, or reached for, in the 1st round to be your guy.
RE: RE: RE: I actually would have been okay if they traded up for Mahomes,
believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
Past results don't dictate a future outcome. For how many years was it that the Giants could never find, or never bothered to look for a Wide Reciever?
Look, QB is the toughest roster spot to fill in any sport, and I have no idea if Webb is going to pan out, but you do actually have to try.
Even if you believe, like I do, that the most effective way to do it is tank for a #1 in a good year for QBs, that can and does fail very often too, and whiffing on a #1 overall is damn sure a lot more painful than blowing it on a 3rd round guy.
This is a great situation for him to come into.
At least preseason will be interesting again when the second stringers play!!!!
At least preseason will be interesting again when the second stringers play!!!!
Yes
Not a fan of wasting a 3rd. But, then again, Reese sucks in the 3rd.
It's the third round.
There's nothing to lose here.
Because he's an entirely different player, on a different coaching staff.
If the Giants thought it was the way to go, I'm with it......
Quote:
Someone tell me why this isn't going to be a wasted pick like Nassib all over again.
Because he's an entirely different player, on a different coaching staff.
If the Giants thought it was the way to go, I'm with it......
They also thought Nassib was the way to go and moved up for him.
my 2nd rated QB.
Most likely it's two more and out.
neither did brett favre when GB took a Cal QB
Link - ( New Window )
Most likely it's two more and out.
People keep thinking that Eli is going to play at a high level for the next three years... One can hope..
this one....who knows. Is Webb our future?
My mind went to Dave Brown Era....when I saw his face.....I hope that is not the case
I hated the Nassib pick too, but I guess comparing that time and pick against now and this pick is apples/oranges.
Third round pick on a guy who may never be a starter, at a position where next year's draft looks stacked, when there's a lot of talent still on the board.
I think it's fair to question the value of this pick. We shall see!
We're used to that.... Kidding, just kidding, j/k......
Wasn't me. I never really spoke about Webb. Wasn't a fan of any of the QBs in this draft. But next year's crop will be insane. I could see 6 or 7 QBs go in the first round next year.
My first reaction is that I don't like it - but if the Giants feel strongly about the kid, who knows. Obviously they whiffed on Nassib. Lets hope this isn't a repeat.
This was a gift.
Before the guy plays a game huh? lol
NFL COMPARISON Brock Osweiler
BOTTOM LINE System quarterback with more than 65 percent of his attempts coming inside of 10 yards. Webb has enough raw talent to be considered a developmental prospect, but his decision-making and accuracy issues beyond 10 yards is a big red flag that might be tough to overcome in the NFL.
Yeah but Reese has shown he's clueless when it comes to the OL. 9 years running.
The guys who are worth having are the guys who are good enough to start right away. Otherwise, the best you hope for is the Cousins-Kaepernick-Tyrod level of play. Would anybody here be happy with Eli's successor capping out at that level? Better to tank a year post-Eli and get a blue-chipper.
I know people get tired of the Pats rhetoric, but that's they've been doing.
I don't understand your point. Smith has a nothing contract, which is fitting since he probably doesn't have an NFL future. They're just giving him a chance.
I have been saying it for weeks. The kid has "it".
Perfect pick I would have taken him in the 2nd easy and maybe even the 1st.
Way better than any qb not named Mitch in this year's draft.
Absolute larceny by the Giants. Remember this night.
Jerry is going NO where
Quote:
Shit. No. First Bad Pick. Eli isnt going anywhere for at least 3 years.
neither did brett favre when GB took a Cal QB
Aaron Rodgers comparisons with a third round pick of this caliber.
I'm fine with the pick, but how poisonous QBs are to people's minds never ceases to amaze me.
I may not love the pick, but big difference between Webb and Nassib. Webb throws the ball around with ease, big arm, where as Nassib was always a bit more of a system qb. He'll play in this league.
... and then he didn't because teams traded up for other ones In a weak qb class. yay?
Most likely it's two more and out.
Yeah, Eli will only be here 2 or 3 more years. But you replace him with a good QB if you want to keep competing. I really doubt Davis Webb is going to step in when Eli retires or god forbid gets hurt and does a great job at QB. But I guess we'll see. They should have just drafted one next year where the QB crop is supposed to be even better.
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we got our guy!!! I know we spoke a little about how we liked this kid
Wasn't me. I never really spoke about Webb. Wasn't a fan of any of the QBs in this draft. But next year's crop will be insane. I could see 6 or 7 QBs go in the first round next year.
mmmm was it terps? I thought it was you!
This pick illustrates why we are not going to be like the
Bills, Browns, Redskins etc trying so desperately to
find a starting qb of quality.
Eli is the starter for 2-3 more years and we all love him
but I bet even he wants to see the franchise succeed
after he retires.
I love this pick. He could be like Nassib or he could be our
version of Luck/Rodgers.
Terrible decision
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In comment 13451011 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
we got our guy!!! I know we spoke a little about how we liked this kid
Wasn't me. I never really spoke about Webb. Wasn't a fan of any of the QBs in this draft. But next year's crop will be insane. I could see 6 or 7 QBs go in the first round next year.
mmmm was it terps? I thought it was you!
Nope, wasn't me. Thanks for thinking of me though! Haha
You're doing it wrong if you're relying on third round picks to provide immediate help, imo.
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That Eli isn't going to be here for 4 or 5 more years.
People need to accept that Eli will be hitting the turf or doing his 2 step drop quite a bit in 2017 with a shit offensive line.
Most likely it's two more and out.
People keep thinking that Eli is going to play at a high level for the next three years... One can hope..
Jerry Reese says Davis Webb has the best arm in the draft and makes it clear that he will have chance to be successor to Eli Manning.
Saw a lot of Cal games. Has the height and the arm strength required to survive the howling winds of the Meadowlands. Better arm than Goff. Tremendous work ethic, just like Tomlinson. No injury history.
60-65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS, but that is true for most QBs from spread offenses. Some sideline "rail," throws, but few to the second and third levels. Generally accurate, but passes can sail. Limited experience with three, five, and seven step drops. Little mobility, and needs more lower body strength.
Good pick. Worth the risk.
Webb vs. Oregon - ( New Window )
To be fair, the same thing happened with Ryan Nassib. He was predicted by some to go in the first round.
Maybe Aaron Rodgers 2.0.
Comes out of CAL and sits on the bench for 3-4 years behind HOF starter.
half full ... bro.
; )
Jerry Reese says Davis Webb has "best arm in the draft." He has all the tools, high ceiling + will be caddie to Eli Manning for few seasons.
1 - Evan Engram - TE/Ole Miss
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson - DT/Alabama
3 - Davis Webb - QB/California
My Draft
1 - David Njoku - TE/Miami
2 - Dion Dawkins - OL/Temple
3 - Montravious Adams - DT/Auburn
People said the same shit about Nassib.
I'd be willing to bet he doesn't play a meaningful down his entire rookie contract.
Now is the time to look for quality secondary depth, RB depth, or a flier on an interior lineman. The talent was there.
Took a DT who can't get to a quarterback and who won't finish the first season except on IR. May get hurt in camp.
Took a quarterback we don't need when we need OL help desperately.
Passed on better talent everywhere and with every pick.
My grade so far D-
Prediction: This draft hurts us for years and finally seals Jerry fate.
He hasn't missed any game ever but it's not reasonable to expect he will never miss a game.
Backup QB is absolutely a need
1 - Evan Engram - TE/Ole Miss
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson - DT/Alabama
3 - Davis Webb - QB/California
My Draft
1 - David Njoku - TE/Miami
2 - Dion Dawkins - OL/Temple
3 - Montravious Adams - DT/Auburn
I like your draft.
Good job on the podcast btw.
Nassib part 2. At least we didn't trade up but it's a deep draft (and a bad QB one).
He's a backup QB.
He MIGHT end up starting the year after Eli retires but it will just transition to when we pick high in the draft for a real franchise qb.
We will pick a kicker tomorrow.
in their post 1st round mocks.
Took a DT who can't get to a quarterback and who won't finish the first season except on IR. May get hurt in camp.
Took a quarterback we don't need when we need OL help desperately.
Passed on better talent everywhere and with every pick.
My grade so far D-
Prediction: This draft hurts us for years and finally seals Jerry fate.
Shut up you idiot.
1 - Evan Engram - TE/Ole Miss
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson - DT/Alabama
3 - Davis Webb - QB/California
My Draft
1 - David Njoku - TE/Miami
2 - Dion Dawkins - OL/Temple
3 - Montravious Adams - DT/Auburn
Prefer the Giants' tbh
I have been saying it for weeks. The kid has "it".
Perfect pick I would have taken him in the 2nd easy and maybe even the 1st.
Way better than any qb not named Mitch in this year's draft.
Absolute larceny by the Giants. Remember this night.
dude - hope you're right!
Great pick. Archive this thread for the future.
You can't be honestly surprised. Look at some of the comments. Some people don't even think long-term thinking plays into the draft.
You guys watch the Jets, life after Eli scares the shit out of me and should you too. Now is the time to start looking.
MVP... his pro day was great. I was there and he was throwing in the rain and making plays! He is a leader
I loved it. lol
dude he doesnt get along with marshall, he has a large contract and is a one year rental...in no way is that a better decision
umm last year you ripped every single pick and it ended up being a great draft
All I know (or at least hope) is that the Giants won't pass next year on Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk for Davis Webb. Then again, those kids could fall ala Connor Cook and Christian Hackenberg.
Those were the possible projections then,
I said I wouldn't mind. Obviously he had moved up since.
I don't have a problem here, if they like him enough.
LOL
Webb is much bigger, and has a better arm, although Nassib is more mobile.
Eli is reaching the end. Whether that's in two or three years, his window is closing.
However, Webb was a leading performer in almost all the categories at the combine.
In addition Webb posted a 59 MPH velocity at the combine only second to Mahome @ 60 MPH.
He has plenty of arm strength.
Webb is also bigger than you might think he is almost 6'-6".
His hands are 9 1/4" but he has long arms.
He is a project.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
- This is closer to the traditional way teams used to handle young QBs, letting them caddie for a few years and learn before putting them on the field rather than learning on the job
- This is different than the Nassib pick. Nassib was never meant to play. He was a cheaper backup than paying relatively big bucks for the David Carr's of the world to sit behind Eli. Webb is a true potential heir to Eli because all indications are Eli is done once his deal is up.
- Next years draft has even more talented QBs in it. I wouldn't put it past the Giants to look there again next year if they aren't "feeling it" with Webb after a year of work behind Eli. Remember, you need a starter and a backup. This is similar to the Dave Brown/ Kent Graham set up years ago when Simms was on his last legs (hopefully this works out better)
- The Giants have needs at OL, but this draft blows for OL right now. So the value wasn't there at the 3rd round. They need a RB, but they can get a big back tomorrow, or just sign Blount.
- This screams a value pick, at an area of need somewhat immediately (upgrade the backup) with the potential to groom Eli's replacement. I think the Giants are hoping for a good transition like Favre to Rodgers when the time comes, and less like Simms to Brown.
Saw a lot of Cal games. Has the height and the arm strength required to survive the howling winds of the Meadowlands. Better arm than Goff. Tremendous work ethic, just like Tomlinson. No injury history.
60-65% of his passes were within 10 yards of the LOS, but that is true for most QBs from spread offenses. Some sideline "rail," throws, but few to the second and third levels. Generally accurate, but passes can sail. Limited experience with three, five, and seven step drops. Little mobility, and needs more lower body strength.
Good pick. Worth the risk.
Webb vs. Oregon - ( New Window )
someone commented "Eli's successor" on that video and it was from 3 months ago LOL.
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
Oh hell no! Not even close! I hated hackenburg. Couldn't hit the side of a Barn. Webb is way better!!
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
There's something to dislike about this vs. reaching for a mediocre OL to join the rest of our mediocre OL?
So Davis Webb is going to be a top 5 QB of all-time?
Same shit here with this kid.
1 - Evan Engram - TE/Ole Miss
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson - DT/Alabama
3 - Davis Webb - QB/California
My Draft
1 - David Njoku - TE/Miami
2 - Dion Dawkins - OL/Temple
3 - Montravious Adams - DT/Auburn
I like your's better.
Quote:
In comment 13451098 32_Razor said:
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
Oh hell no! Not even close! I hated hackenburg. Couldn't hit the side of a Barn. Webb is way better!!
Much closer than this Rodgers/Montana garbage some of y'all are already starting.
He's a third round pick. Worth the chance, but no one should hanging the moon on him.
Quote:
In comment 13451098 32_Razor said:
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
possible qb of the future for a 1 year solution at DT ... yeah ....
Okay, Mrs. Webb.
I mean...I hope you're right. Hahaha. 'Dem be lofty expectations
All I know (or at least hope) is that the Giants won't pass next year on Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk for Davis Webb. Then again, those kids could fall ala Connor Cook and Christian Hackenberg.
Jimmy G. has played all of 6 quarters, and got hurt.
He hasn't proved much, teams are just desperate.
No way in hell, those 3 QB's who went in the first 12 picks
were good enough IMO. You get a team like the Bears,
who go out a sign a QB, then trade up to draft one.
That is some dumbass shit on their part.
Same shit here with this kid.
Nassib was a value pick, who Reese himself said at the time he was drafted that he hopes he never plays. The biggest hope for the Giants was that if Eli got hurt and he had to go in for a few games, he would do well and become trade bait. Prior to Nassib, they were paying millions for Carr to hold a clip board and get a beating in the pre-season behind the 3rd string OL. The front office figured they might as well save some money and let Nassib do that and hope that they might get something to possibly trade down the line.
This is a great situation for him to come into.
This does not preclude a 2018 pick.
A more mobile Eli clone who can learn for a few years under Eli and Ben is worth this pick. (Eli would not feel as threatened by as some of the 1st rd QBs. See Warner, Kurt)
If he succeeds, the NYG can adjust personnel and strategy.
Quote:
In comment 13451139 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13451098 32_Razor said:
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
Off-hand, I don't remember, TBH
Yeah...I don't think that's gonna happen
I think they are close but need OL help, LB and maybe RB.
People will be outraged, people will be indignant, people will think they're smarter than the GM, but who gives a F?
Thompson is too soon to rate, but not one impact player in probably 10 years except Manningham, who was good, but limited. So get your outrage on, this QB can't be any worse than 90% of these guys.
2016: Darian Thompson S
2015: Owamagbe Odighizuwa DE
2014: Jay Bromley DT
2013: Damontre Moore DE
2012: Jayron Hosley CB
2011: Jerrel Jernigan WR
2010: Chad Jones S
2009: Ramses Barden WR (trade up), Travis Beckum TE
2008: Mario Manningham WR
2007: Jay Alford D
Trading up for a cheap backup who would never play was stupid.
And using a 3rd on a QB and then looking again at next year's class would be stupid, too.
He's 36 and his contract has 3 years left. Of course he's nearing the end.
Biggest need - O-line and Jerry ignored it again. He doesn't have the imagination to run a draft. He could have traded up in the second for Lamp and we'd be in good shape. Now, we may need to start Webb when this o-line gets Eli killed this year!
Another wasted QB pick.
Foreman, Lewis, Adams, Sutton, etc would contribute this year.
They have made multiple comments about his skills deteriorating.
I think fans need to realize it.
I preferred Mahomes but Webb it is, hopefully, he develops or we draft another QB over the next 2 years.
If Webb is truly the highest rated player on the Giants draft board, then I applaud the Giants for adhering to the philosophy of drafting the bpa, but at the same time, I scorn the Giant for throwing away their chances to draft somebody who can help them win this year.
Quote:
it's quite clear the team thinks Eli is nearing the end
He's 36 and his contract has 3 years left. Of course he's nearing the end.
Patriots took Garropolo in the 2nd and Brissett in the 3rd. Brady is still playing at a high level. If the Patriots can use resources towards covering their asses in case Brady declines rapidly, then why shouldn't we do the same?
I think they are close but need OL help, LB and maybe RB.
Agreed, but I think the Pats traded up and got the OL the Giants were going to look at. Once that happened, the value wasn't there in the 3rd round slot at OL. Nor LB, and as for RB, they can get one tomorrow or just sign Blount. So if their draft board has Webb that high up on it, you take him. I'm just glad they didn't use a first rounder on Mahomes.
Quote:
In comment 13451149 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13451139 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13451098 32_Razor said:
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
Off-hand, I don't remember, TBH
Only games he looked even close to as bad as hackenberg was Oregon State game where he hurt his throwing hand and couldn't grip the ball. They should have pulled him and the Washington game and that was some drops and Washington being studs on Def
Not everyone is perfect. I mean practice does make perfect but some things are not correctible.
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In comment 13451168 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 13451149 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13451139 Devon said:
Quote:
In comment 13451098 32_Razor said:
Quote:
This pick will go down as a legendary pick.
Aaron Rodgers now Joe Montana.
Here's a more realistic take:
Ryan Smith
@RSmithNFL
Davis Webb is the Christian Hackenberg of 2017. Big arm but struggles with touch and accuracy at all levels of the field. Not correctable.
That was my impression from the little I saw of him, which is why he wasn't on my radar. How many QBs have improved their accuracy from college? Insane work ethic, pretty good arm, good size but the accuracy was poor.
What game did you feel he looked like Hackenberg?
Off-hand, I don't remember, TBH
Only games he looked even close to as bad as hackenberg was Oregon State game where he hurt his throwing hand and couldn't grip the ball. They should have pulled him and the Washington game and that was some drops and Washington being studs on Def
And I didn't mean to compare him to Hackenberg. I meant the impression of him having a big arm but poor accuracy.
A lot of it is his offense. They dont ask him to read defenses. They dont ask him to gp thru progressions. He needs work.
We have seen a few of those in Giantland, LOL.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Giants brass all say they're surprised Webb fell. Marc Ross think he's comparable to first round QBs.
Quote:
In comment 13451173 annexOPR said:
Quote:
it's quite clear the team thinks Eli is nearing the end
He's 36 and his contract has 3 years left. Of course he's nearing the end.
Patriots took Garropolo in the 2nd and Brissett in the 3rd. Brady is still playing at a high level. If the Patriots can use resources towards covering their asses in case Brady declines rapidly, then why shouldn't we do the same?
Everyone wants to be the Patriots, but they don't want to be the Patriots.
It's telling that Daniel Jeremiah, who is a fantastic scout, said he may end up being the best QB of the class.
Then again, I do recall similar things being said about Ryan Nassib, who had a good arm and top-notch intangibles as well. He didn't have Webb's size though.
I guess we'll see. All I know is that it shouldn't impact whether we take a better QB next year.
Webb reminds me of Carson Palmer frankly.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
(And if you think that anything can be coached up effectively with a backup, given the practice-time and time-with-coaches limitations of the 2011 CBA.)
Why just list his weaknesses? Whats the agenda here, why not his positives too?
STRENGTHS Stands tall in the pocket with a high release point. Rhythm passer. Can drive it with accuracy between hashes when allowed to sling from a clean pocket. Shows patience to allow crossing routes to clear traffic. Expedites release with compact delivery when blitzed. Functional poise with blitz in his face. Slides to create cleaner platform to launch from when pocket gets noisy. Internal clock is operational. Has feel for when ball has been in his hands too long and will look to release it. Feet are good enough to operate in a boot-action passing attack. Completion percentage saw an uptick in the fourth quarter in 2016.
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If he is such a hard worker, how come he has lots of flaws?
Not everyone is perfect. I mean practice does make perfect but some things are not correctible.
Much of being a great qb is mental. His biggest weakness is decision making. Maybe he just isn't smart enough to figure it out. Not trying to be critical, just trying to understand why he has these weaknesses.
Giants brass all say they're surprised Webb fell. Marc Ross think he's comparable to first round QBs.
Just too bad that the big talk about QBs in this draft was that there's no real outstanding QBs in this draft.
They're even a roll of the dice once they're on the field. RGIII looked one way when he arrived, another way now. Drew Brees was underwhelming at first.
I think the takeaway from this pick is the Giants are starting their succession plan at QB. Webb may be the guy, or not. Maybe they end up drafting a few QBs over the next few years, trying to find the next franchise QB. That wouldn't be surprising.
And that would be okay. Not ideal, but acceptable -- IF they find their next great QB at the end of the process.
If it takes 3 draft picks, with two wasted on guys who wash out, that's bad, but not as bad as having a crappy QB for years. (Remember what it was like between Simms and Collins? Kent Graham... Dave Brown... Jesse Palmer...). If you have a bad QB your team is dead in the water.
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WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipation. Timing passes must come out sooner. Plagued by accuracy issues and decision-making outside the numbers on both intermediate and deep throws. Five of his 12 interceptions in 2016 were along deep sidelines due to under-throws and failure to read safety help. Touch and placement are an issue when forced to leave the pocket. Not a factor as a scrambler.
Why just list his weaknesses? Whats the agenda here, why not his positives too?
STRENGTHS Stands tall in the pocket with a high release point. Rhythm passer. Can drive it with accuracy between hashes when allowed to sling from a clean pocket. Shows patience to allow crossing routes to clear traffic. Expedites release with compact delivery when blitzed. Functional poise with blitz in his face. Slides to create cleaner platform to launch from when pocket gets noisy. Internal clock is operational. Has feel for when ball has been in his hands too long and will look to release it. Feet are good enough to operate in a boot-action passing attack. Completion percentage saw an uptick in the fourth quarter in 2016.
No agenda, merely trying to see where he lacks and is deficient. Obviously, this has to be overcome, right?
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is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
You will have a year with Webb and a real understanding of capabilities.
If you think they are better you draft them but if they don't fall or Webb is really impressing the staff you made the right choice and move forward.
Because we drafted Webb does not hold us back of pick a better QB if they drop
Quote:
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
And who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph, or Falk will be better than Webb? I didn't want a QB in the 1st, but we got a potential 1st rounder in the late 3rd. Its a steal, and if it works its a home run. The kid has it all, I hope he can put it together. He's as good as Trubisky for sure.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
LOL. Nice
For perspective, people are saying the Bears made a huge mistake drafting Mitch #2. KC & Houston traded next years first for Mahomes & Watson. Maybe Webb pans out, maybe he stinks, but it's much less risk in finding out.
Quote:
In comment 13451237 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is a classic Reese pick because of his upside. He is a "high ceiling," "low floor" player. His work ethic gives him a decent chance at the former.
Many colleges are now using spread offenses. They don't translate well to the NFL. So QBs from that system need several years to learn how to play at this level. Most teams can't give them that time. We can, because Eli will play for the next two years at least. But we have to start now.
We also aren't getting anywhere near next year's QBs.
Well, I think he does have a low floor. He could never see the field... Couple that with his accuracy and yeah, he may never end up as a starting QB. So yeah, there lots to like about him but at the same time, we need to be a little realistic.
And while we probably won't get a chance at Darnold or Allen, who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph or Falk couldn't fall to where we pick in the first round (hopefully 32nd)?
And who says that Jackson, Rosen, Rudolph, or Falk will be better than Webb? I didn't want a QB in the 1st, but we got a potential 1st rounder in the late 3rd. Its a steal, and if it works its a home run. The kid has it all, I hope he can put it together. He's as good as Trubisky for sure.
That's fair. I think they are, but I concede that things could change from now until next April. No doubt.
And I don't know if he's as good as Trubisky. If he was, he would've been taken earlier than he did. Let's hope he is. Let's hope he's an amazing pick. I certainly hope so.
Webb reminds me of Carson Palmer frankly.
I think many of us are just thinking that we have much more critical needs now than a backup QB. I have nothing against Webb but I hate the pick for going for any QB in the draft this year. We were close last year but still have some serious needs. We picked up a good TE, and a good DE which we absolutely needed after letting Hankins walk and then we wasted a third rounder. So here we are three picks in and the only improvement is a TE.
Instead, JR built his vision of a team; eg as JM even said, the 1st rder is JRs. And I know TC and Ross also contributed to failures but its JRs team.
No disrespect or anger to Mc, but they are, appropriately , building a Mc O, including for the Webb pick that could have been used more wisely considering even @32, there would be a group of 5-7 QBs from which we'd have at least 1-2
QBs that would still be there, better than this QB class.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers just off the top of my head
but for the record, 61% would be better than Eli's career completion percent.
For perspective, people are saying the Bears made a huge mistake drafting Mitch #2. KC & Houston traded next years first for Mahomes & Watson. Maybe Webb pans out, maybe he stinks, but it's much less risk in finding out.
+1. Chicago, KC, and Houston mortgaged their futures trying to get their next QB. We spent a late 3rd rounder on a guy that a lot of people think is just as good as the top 3.
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers just off the top of my head
but for the record, 61% would be better than Eli's career completion percent.
Tom Brady is an exception. I mean he was a sixth rounder. Let's be honest. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time.
And Rodgers kind of hovered around where he was at college, IIRC, which is around 65%.
Just when I was starting come around on Jerry, uh-oh! What is he thinking!?!?
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Kurt Warner had a higher completion % in the NFL versus the Arena League. Relax.
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In comment 13451271 Anakim said:
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers just off the top of my head
but for the record, 61% would be better than Eli's career completion percent.
Tom Brady is an exception. I mean he was a sixth rounder. Let's be honest. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time.
And Rodgers kind of hovered around where he was at college, IIRC, which is around 65%.
Who cares? My point was even if Webb becomes an NFL starting QB and his completion percent is 61% it will be higher than Eli Manning's career completion percentage.
Given Reese's 3rd round track record, I wouldn't get worked up about it.
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Yes he could be the answer in 2-3 years but he could also be another Nassib. A mediocre hat wearing clipboard holding QB that never gets in the game.
I think they are close but need OL help, LB and maybe RB.
Agreed, but I think the Pats traded up and got the OL the Giants were going to look at. Once that happened, the value wasn't there in the 3rd round slot at OL. Nor LB, and as for RB, they can get one tomorrow or just sign Blount. So if their draft board has Webb that high up on it, you take him. I'm just glad they didn't use a first rounder on Mahomes.
I agree that I would rather have Webb with a 3rd than trade picks and take Mahomes.
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Kurt Warner had a higher completion % in the NFL versus the Arena League. Relax.
I'm not upset. Haha. I'm calm. Calmer than I thought I would be. Maybe because I haven't watched enough of Davis Webb.
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In comment 13451286 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13451271 Anakim said:
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers just off the top of my head
but for the record, 61% would be better than Eli's career completion percent.
Tom Brady is an exception. I mean he was a sixth rounder. Let's be honest. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time.
And Rodgers kind of hovered around where he was at college, IIRC, which is around 65%.
Who cares? My point was even if Webb becomes an NFL starting QB and his completion percent is 61% it will be higher than Eli Manning's career completion percentage.
Given Reese's 3rd round track record, I wouldn't get worked up about it.
You're right that it would be higher than Eli's career completion percentage, but let's be honest: are most of us okay with that? With someone who will throw around 61%? I mean don't you want a more...consistent and accurate QB?
With our OL as it is, we might need this kid sooner than later.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Webb = Remote officially thrown.
Sorry, but I'm hugely disappointed with the NYG 2017 draft. Typical JR flubs and reaches. If it wasn't for the OBJ pick he'd be out of the league by now.
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
You're talking about a complete anomaly. Come on. Brady is the greatest QB of all-time and his story is a once in a lifetime thing.
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
The kid has a gun. If he can be molded we've got our QB of the future. If not we've done no worse than in many past drafts in which our 3rd rounders failed. And that would be possible if we took Asiata or any of the other guys you are high on.
Nassib 2.0. Or maybe. Carson Palmer 2.0
Operative quote: "I admit I don't know the first thing about davis..."
Why would you say this? Everything I have read says the kid is very smart and a student of the game. His dad is a coach. Read Dave Te, Sy, ESPN, etc. He's a really smart kid. Big, great arm, smart, and athletic.
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
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In comment 13451271 Anakim said:
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
Webb was starting and got hurt. So Mahomes came in and finished the season. So they went into competition in the fall of the next season and Mahommes won the job. Webb went with his old coach Dykes to Cal.
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In comment 13451310 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 13451271 Anakim said:
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
You said you couldn't think of any examples and I gave you 2.5. It happens.
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In comment 13451325 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 13451310 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 13451271 Anakim said:
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
You said you couldn't think of any examples and I gave you 2.5. It happens.
OK, how about a semi-DRAMATIC increase in completion percentage? Brady is the exception of all exceptions. Warner is also an anomaly.
And it's smart to start now and not wait till Eli retires.
Also much cheaper to draft a potential starting QB then paying one in FA and screwing the cap.
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This guy? Not so much!
Why would you say this? Everything I have read says the kid is very smart and a student of the game. His dad is a coach. Read Dave Te, Sy, ESPN, etc. He's a really smart kid. Big, great arm, smart, and athletic.
In comment 13451244 5BowlsSoon said:
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WEAKNESSES Robotic decision-making. Decision on where to go with ball seems predetermined despite coverages. Needs to get better at manipulating safeties with his eyes. Inconsistent velocity to sideline causes nose of ball to dip. Drive throws sometime sail. Has slow setup in pocket with excessive pre-release steps. Cornerbacks contest too many throws due to lack of anticipaction.
California quarterback Davis Webb, believed by some teams to be a first-round caliber passer, went to the Giants with the 87th overall pick on Friday. Webb is the highest passer taken by the Giants since 2004, when the team picked Philip Rivers and swapped him for Manning in the first round.
A transfer out of Texas Tech -- Webb battled eventual first-round pick Patrick Mahomes for a starting spot -- Webb replaced last year's No. 1 overall pick Jared Goff at Cal and posted 4,295 yards and 37 touchdowns in 2016.
"We thought he had the best arm in the draft this year," Giants general manager Jerry Reese told reporters. He added: "He has a high ceiling that can develop behind (Eli Manning)."
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Nassib is hilarious. He was a high rated QB that fell to the 4th and we traded up for. He ENDED UP as a backup. But everyone who defended it was saying we just took Eli's successor/trade bait to land us a haul of draft picks.
Same shit here with this kid.
Nassib was a value pick, who Reese himself said at the time he was drafted that he hopes he never plays. The biggest hope for the Giants was that if Eli got hurt and he had to go in for a few games, he would do well and become trade bait. Prior to Nassib, they were paying millions for Carr to hold a clip board and get a beating in the pre-season behind the 3rd string OL. The front office figured they might as well save some money and let Nassib do that and hope that they might get something to possibly trade down the line.
Agreed.
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In comment 13451340 Anakim said:
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In comment 13451325 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 13451310 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 13451271 Anakim said:
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who has improved his accuracy in the NFL from his days in college. I'd love if you could name some.
I mean Webb had a 61% completion percentage last year.
Brady has a higher completion percentage in NFL versus college. Want more?
Rivers has a higher NFL completion % versus college. I'm gonna stop now, but I found 2 college examples and 1 Arena League example of guys improving completion percentage.
Rivers was a 63/64% passer in college. 64/65% in the NFL.
You said you couldn't think of any examples and I gave you 2.5. It happens.
OK, how about a semi-DRAMATIC increase in completion percentage? Brady is the exception of all exceptions. Warner is also an anomaly.
I admittedly don't have time to fish for dramatic ones besides Brady, but considering I found a few increases in maybe 5-10 minutes of searching, I'm confident there are at least a few instances. Eli has a 59.7% career completion percentage, btw, so I think we can work with 61%.
Rodgers, Montana, and now Brady.
I watched a YouTube video of his highlights at Cal this year.
He immediately reminded me of #7 from the Steelers.
He is probably the most NFL ready of the QBs, except maybe Mahomes. So he is a good backup and he saves you a couple of million each year. Outside chance he develops into a decent starter.
I watched a YouTube video of his highlights at Cal this year.
He immediately reminded me of #7 from the Steelers.
I'd take either Big Ben or Palmer.
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Nassib is hilarious. He was a high rated QB that fell to the 4th and we traded up for. He ENDED UP as a backup. But everyone who defended it was saying we just took Eli's successor/trade bait to land us a haul of draft picks.
Same shit here with this kid.
Nassib was a value pick, who Reese himself said at the time he was drafted that he hopes he never plays. The biggest hope for the Giants was that if Eli got hurt and he had to go in for a few games, he would do well and become trade bait. Prior to Nassib, they were paying millions for Carr to hold a clip board and get a beating in the pre-season behind the 3rd string OL. The front office figured they might as well save some money and let Nassib do that and hope that they might get something to possibly trade down the line.
Carr was generally dirt cheap for a vet back up.
The only vet back-up they ever really paid good money to was Rosenfels, for one year.
LOL.
Reese's have been worse than even the norm, but the norm is for third round picks to suck.
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that since many of Jerry's 3rd round picks have sucked, it's OK for 3rd round picks to suck.
Reese's have been worse than even the norm, but the norm is for third round picks to suck.
And that stat comes from where?
Also please remember that he was starting at Texas Tech before he popped out his shoulder, which brought Mahomes in the game. Yes Mahomes won the job in the fall in a close race, but TT has a unique system. Webb went to Cal and dominated, following Goff there. So just because Mahomes won the job, this doesn't necessarily mean he's a better NFL prospect. Look at the previous TT QB's, very few translate into the NFL. Cal QB's do.
Why are they ignoring the offensive line?
maaaaaaaybe this works?
Why are they ignoring the offensive line?
because the prospects available in their eyes couldn't contribute day 1 so they took a QB with all the tools needed to develop into a quality QB?
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
Got injured and then Mahomes went on to throw 16 TDs to like 2 picks in 4 games. They then battled it out and Mahomes barely won it. Interesring fact that Mayfield from Oklahoma transferred because Webb beat him out after he got hurt. He will be a top 3 round QB next year. TT had some players at QB!
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And if opportunity strikes again next year, hell, I'd pick up another QB.
What were the circumstances of Webb being replaced by Mahomes?
Webb was starting and got hurt. So Mahomes came in and finished the season. So they went into competition in the fall of the next season and Mahommes won the job. Webb went with his old coach Dykes to Cal.
Actually Dykes wasnt his coach ever before he went to Cal. The head coach of TT was his player tho and said this guy is amazing, he is a leader, and has the best work ethic. He came highly recommend and said he thought they were both amazing players and that they were so close, but Mahomes had more time so he started the younger player.
Exactly. Take the BPA. Don't force picks. Don't reach.
Or we'll be saying, "What a steal!"
That said ... did I say I didn't see it coming?
This x 1,000.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
Probably, yeh. But that doesn't make this a bad pick. QBs don't come easy, you have to take chances and invest resources into finding one. Every year that we wait before Eli retires, the cost goes up.
3rd round is an ideal time to roll the dice - especially after drafting 2 players who will contribute day 1.
worst case: cheap backup for a few years.
Please show me where the Bears, Chiefs, and Texans transferred because the completion was too tough
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
That said ... did I say I didn't see it coming?
He's a classless jerk who would sell any team out to make a buck. His history proves this
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
Would you bet money that Webb will also alienate his teammates with his selfish antics?
He is probably the most NFL ready of the QBs, except maybe Mahomes. So he is a good backup and he saves you a couple of million each year. Outside chance he develops into a decent starter.
How the fuck can ANYONE say its an outside chance he will be a starter?!?! tom brady was a 7th round pick like wtf....guys this isnt an exact science. you evaluate talent and if the value is there when you pick you make it to better your roster and franchise. this is a top 5 QB in the draft. some say he should have went much higher and clearly the giants couldnt pass up the opportunity...jesus at this point i hope he becomes our starter and actually polays well just to shut some of you up. its insane to think that its an outside chance...the guy has 2-3 years on the bench much like rodgers...who fucking knows. rodgers had a ton of flaws coming into the pros and now what? take a fucking breather here people
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdniWncWu4
Another point, while Eli has been durable, that may change as he enters his late 30s. Having a competent backup is much more important to the Giants success than it has been in the past.
Quote:
LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
I googled this topic and found as follows:
SYDNEY Davis Webb threw four touchdown passes and ran for another score in a sensational debut for California, leading the Bears to a 51-31 win over Hawaii on Saturday in college football's season opener at Sydney's Olympic stadium.
Khalfani Muhammad had 94 yards rushing and one touchdown, and Chad Hansen had 14 receptions for 160 yards and two scores to help Cal win the game played Down Under as a tourism initiative and to increase awareness of "gridiron" in the country.
The teams provided plenty of early entertainment for unfamiliar fans, scoring two touchdowns each by midway through the opening quarter.
But Webb, the graduate transfer from Texas Tech replacing Jared Goff the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick by the Los Angeles Rams helped move Cal into control in the second quarter.
Hawaii fumbled on a kickoff following Matt Anderson's second field goal for Cal, and Webb's 34-yard pass to wide Hansen on the next play gave Cal a 27-14 lead.
Webb got into the act himself, rushing three yards off-tackle for another Cal touchdown and a 34-14 halftime lead. Webb was 38 for 54 and 441 yards total passing with no interceptions.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
I can't fathom why some people think Eli is going to be one of those guys they have to tear the jersey off of. The people who would possibly know what his timeframe is are also the ones making the draft decisions. For all we know, they already know when he wants to get out. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who wants to play until he's 43.
It's great that he's so healthy. It also means he's got a ton of wear on the tires. He's earned the right to go out on his terms. That doesn't always mean he wants to play until he's 42 like Favre did.
Quote:
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
It is, but some correct.. he was committed to Colorado and SR QB Sefo was better than expected, but he wasnt signed, didnt need a release, and ultimately thought going to be in the same offense with Dykes and Spav was in his best interest. His HC recommended him to Dykes and vise versa. He was transferring to start to give him a shot at the NFL and thought going to battle a 3 year starter in a new offense wasnt the best move.
Quote:
LOLWUT?
I googled this topic and found as follows:
SYDNEY Davis Webb threw four touchdown passes and ran for another score in a sensational debut for California, leading the Bears to a 51-31 win over Hawaii on Saturday in college football's season opener at Sydney's Olympic stadium.
Khalfani Muhammad had 94 yards rushing and one touchdown, and Chad Hansen had 14 receptions for 160 yards and two scores to help Cal win the game played Down Under as a tourism initiative and to increase awareness of "gridiron" in the country.
The teams provided plenty of early entertainment for unfamiliar fans, scoring two touchdowns each by midway through the opening quarter.
But Webb, the graduate transfer from Texas Tech replacing Jared Goff the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick by the Los Angeles Rams helped move Cal into control in the second quarter.
Hawaii fumbled on a kickoff following Matt Anderson's second field goal for Cal, and Webb's 34-yard pass to wide Hansen on the next play gave Cal a 27-14 lead.
Webb got into the act himself, rushing three yards off-tackle for another Cal touchdown and a 34-14 halftime lead. Webb was 38 for 54 and 441 yards total passing with no interceptions.
I guess he should've played worse...
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In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
Quote:
LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Quote:
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAdniWncWu4
What? First I doubt all this us true, it sounds like fake news to me. Second, to paint this into a racist vs Hawains thing is pathetic. Typical slander.
Quote:
LOLWUT?
I googled this topic and found as follows:
SYDNEY Davis Webb threw four touchdown passes and ran for another score in a sensational debut for California, leading the Bears to a 51-31 win over Hawaii on Saturday in college football's season opener at Sydney's Olympic stadium.
Khalfani Muhammad had 94 yards rushing and one touchdown, and Chad Hansen had 14 receptions for 160 yards and two scores to help Cal win the game played Down Under as a tourism initiative and to increase awareness of "gridiron" in the country.
The teams provided plenty of early entertainment for unfamiliar fans, scoring two touchdowns each by midway through the opening quarter.
But Webb, the graduate transfer from Texas Tech replacing Jared Goff the No. 1 overall NFL draft pick by the Los Angeles Rams helped move Cal into control in the second quarter.
Hawaii fumbled on a kickoff following Matt Anderson's second field goal for Cal, and Webb's 34-yard pass to wide Hansen on the next play gave Cal a 27-14 lead.
Webb got into the act himself, rushing three yards off-tackle for another Cal touchdown and a 34-14 halftime lead. Webb was 38 for 54 and 441 yards total passing with no interceptions.
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In comment 13451439 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
Quote:
LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
No, but racism is a serious allegation
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In comment 13451439 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
Quote:
LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
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In comment 13451446 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13451439 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
Quote:
LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
I like. a lot.
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In comment 13451425 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
It is, but some correct.. he was committed to Colorado and SR QB Sefo was better than expected, but he wasnt signed, didnt need a release, and ultimately thought going to be in the same offense with Dykes and Spav was in his best interest. His HC recommended him to Dykes and vise versa. He was transferring to start to give him a shot at the NFL and thought going to battle a 3 year starter in a new offense wasnt the best move.
Fair enough account...Amtoft, would you trust Webb after this act? Can he be a leader of men after having committed to a few teams only to abandon them?
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In comment 13451456 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451446 Anakim said:
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In comment 13451439 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
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LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Enemy? Bro no one cares about Colorado. They were good this last year because of theu DC and a ton of SR talent. They will be garbage this year and no one will care because it is Colorado.
He is a solid pick in the 3rd round and can be the starter in years to come.
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In comment 13451463 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13451456 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451446 Anakim said:
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In comment 13451439 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
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LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Enemy? Bro no one cares about Colorado. They were good this last year because of theu DC and a ton of SR talent. They will be garbage this year and no one will care because it is Colorado.
How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
I think you need to look at the DT depth chart. DT was the biggest hole on this team. DT would have made sense in the first round.
QB? I think folks here are in denial about Eli's shelf life.
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Makes zero sense. Win now mode and we take a DT and QB on draft day two? We have a QB and we have a top ranked defense. I was gonna look past the number two pick but jeeze, a QB project with our third pick? What's the reasoning here? If you Eli is done then why draft a TE with your 1? And if Eli ain't done, and he's clearly not then why draft a QB project at 3?I just don't get it.
I think you need to look at the DT depth chart. DT was the biggest hole on this team. DT would have made sense in the first round.
QB? I think folks here are in denial about Eli's shelf life.
I'm with you, Eric. All three picks have made sense to me so far People are very invested in their own views about the draft, and that's cool, but sometimes it's not really that complicated.
you, in fact, make zero sense.
1. yes, the giants have a QB. he is old, nearing the end of his career.
2. yes, the giants have a top ranked defense - that just lost Hankins. Poof, the giants acquire the more cost effective top run stopper in the draft.
3. a TE was drafted 1 because he's a freak of nature that could thrive in various roles, regardless of who is QB.
quick recap: day 1 contributors in rounds 1/2 ... value to good to pass up on a QB they think could develop (as a "project") for a couple years - at which point the giants could determine if he is Eli's successor, or they need to look elsewhere in order to ensure this team doesn't become the Jaguars/Browns after Eli retires.
quicker recap: it's been a great draft so far.
sorry a DT isn't flashy enough. the silly giants are looking beyond 2017 with this draft - as they should, while still adding 2 guys that'll contribute week 1.
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In comment 13451429 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13451425 BurberryManning said:
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Let us document the disgusting tribulations of this young man.
- commits to the University of Colorado as a graduate commitment, after having been beaten and afraid by the competition offered by Patrick Mahomes II
- convinces the CU coaching staff to build their offense around him
- actively recruits 17 year old recruits to join him at CU as a 23 year old transfer up and after the February signing period
* CU is now contractually obligated to honor their offer to Webb*
- attends Spring Game and ensures CU coaching staff that he will
be in attendance in the fall to compete against injured incumbent, Sefo Luifaou
- becomes nervous that Sefo may be healthy and demands his release front CU, after the coaching staff has tailored their offense around him
- attends Cal and get his brains beat in bun CU and Sefo who demonstrate their dominance
Webb is a loser who is afraid of competition and may be a racist against Hawaiians. It's disgusting that the Giants drafted him
LOL. Something tells me this post isn't entirely accurate...
It is, but some correct.. he was committed to Colorado and SR QB Sefo was better than expected, but he wasnt signed, didnt need a release, and ultimately thought going to be in the same offense with Dykes and Spav was in his best interest. His HC recommended him to Dykes and vise versa. He was transferring to start to give him a shot at the NFL and thought going to battle a 3 year starter in a new offense wasnt the best move.
Fair enough account...Amtoft, would you trust Webb after this act? Can he be a leader of men after having committed to a few teams only to abandon them?
He is a great leader. Look he was committed to TT and played great there. He beat out Brad Mayfield who transferred to Oklahoma. I dont knock Mayfield for wanting to start. Webb played a whole year as Mahomes backup his JR year as a good team player. I dont knock kids for wanting to start and give themselves a chance to make the NFL. He didnt leave TT as the starter like say Russell Wilson did to North Carolina State. He left it with JR QB Mahomes. Cal wasnt an option when he committed to Colorado. They weren't sure if that was the direction they wanted to go. He committed to CO because he was told their 3 year starter was hurt and would be out for the year. When word came out he wasnt that hurt the TT coach called Dykes and said this is a good kid and you will love him. It actually took a lot for him to change his mind because he did want to go CO where he was committed, but i dont blame the kid. Cal was a better fit with familiarity with the OC and HC in that offense. The offensive talent at Cal was far superior, they just had the #1 pick in the draft and was offered keys to drive the offense and he took it. I dont blame players ever for doing what is right for them.
He is a great kid. I have talked to him and he loves football. He studies football all the time. Players loved him and how hard he worked. He is a great kid. High level character and leader.
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to warm up to this pick. Admittedly, it's because of the position, not the player. I would have prefer drafting for Eli's last championship instead of Eli's last season, if that makes sense. Also, if I'm being honest, a lot of it is a refusal to accept Eli's career is coming to an end.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
I can't fathom why some people think Eli is going to be one of those guys they have to tear the jersey off of. The people who would possibly know what his timeframe is are also the ones making the draft decisions. For all we know, they already know when he wants to get out. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who wants to play until he's 43.
It's great that he's so healthy. It also means he's got a ton of wear on the tires. He's earned the right to go out on his terms. That doesn't always mean he wants to play until he's 42 like Favre did.
I can't tell if you're echoing what I'm saying, or misunderstanding it, but you and I completely see eye to eye. I wouldn't be shocked if Eli said that this is his last contract, or something to that effect. It would explain this sudden urgency for a QB (and if they were going to trade up for Mahomes, and settled for Webb, that does suggest urgency). My point was simply he's earned the right to call his own shot.
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In comment 13451466 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451463 Amtoft said:
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In comment 13451456 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451446 Anakim said:
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In comment 13451439 BurberryManning said:
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In comment 13451434 Anakim said:
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LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
Clearly, because I don't see anything about it. How do you know this?
Cmon bro, do you need a press release for any sort of info you get? You're better than that. You've become good at this...just believe me when I tell you that most bros on the ground thought Webb was a jackass and acted like a buffoon
Oh please not even. Webb is highly respected and is a great guy.
That tells a coaching staff and team of his intentions to join them one day while jumping ship to their enemy the next.
Enemy? Bro no one cares about Colorado. They were good this last year because of theu DC and a ton of SR talent. They will be garbage this year and no one will care because it is Colorado.
Classic Sergio Lavrov defense. No one will care because we aren't Alabama.
How do you look at yourself in the mirror?
No no no... we dont care because you have only been in the Pac-12 for a min. Do something, get a rivalry that matters, get some time in the league. You arent USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, Washington... you are Utah only they at least are good every year not a one year thing
Quantity. We only have three on the roster.
Quality. Two of the three are journeymen. If Harrison gets hurt, we have nothing.
The RB class is stacked... Mack, McNichols, Hill, I'tavius, Samaje, Conner, my favorite Elijah Hood, etc... the one place we could wait is RB. Davis was being talked about maybe slipping into the first round. Late in the 3rd is a steal. His potential is huge with that arm and the work he will put in. This couldn't be a better spot for him
Quantity. We only have three on the roster.
Quality. Two of the three are journeymen. If Harrison gets hurt, we have nothing.
I don't get it. We had a top ranked defense. How could DT be our biggest need? TE and RB are our biggest need. Our offense was pathetic last year. Anyway, I didn't love the second pick but hey, he's a run stopper and we lost Hank. Seems like a quality young man. Ok. But this QB, can you really say this is a best available player pick? I can't. We'll see. We shall see.
it was a huge need, and now it isn't
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DT was the biggest hole on the Giants? What about RB? We going all the way with Perk this year? Vareen gonna play in more than 8 games this year? Oh that's right, we're gonna sign Blount because guys that leave NE always pan out. And I'm not in denial about Eli. He's got two or three good years left and signing a QB project with our third pick in the draft makes no sense. Should have picked a RB.
The RB class is stacked... Mack, McNichols, Hill, I'tavius, Samaje, Conner, my favorite Elijah Hood, etc... the one place we could wait is RB. Davis was being talked about maybe slipping into the first round. Late in the 3rd is a steal. His potential is huge with that arm and the work he will put in. This couldn't be a better spot for him
Ok then, this makes me feel better actually. Hope he's the goods. And I hope we get a good RB.
a QB they thought would be long gone fell into their laps in the 3rd, they pounced.
mediocre OL class means you look elsewhere. Asiata is not a fit in this offense, and I highly doubt anyone on the board will be a contributor day 1 ... in those situations, roll the dice on a potential franchise QB
And if Harrison tore his ACL, our defense could actually fall apart.
I would argue Harrison may be the most important player on the team outside of Odell Beckham.
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In comment 13451435 colin said:
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to warm up to this pick. Admittedly, it's because of the position, not the player. I would have prefer drafting for Eli's last championship instead of Eli's last season, if that makes sense. Also, if I'm being honest, a lot of it is a refusal to accept Eli's career is coming to an end.
I have to believe this is beyond Reese and BM "seeing something" in Eli that we don't, and moreover Eli saying he may not have a lot left. IMO, Eli has had a career warranting the ability to play until he thinks he can't anymore.
I can't fathom why some people think Eli is going to be one of those guys they have to tear the jersey off of. The people who would possibly know what his timeframe is are also the ones making the draft decisions. For all we know, they already know when he wants to get out. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy who wants to play until he's 43.
It's great that he's so healthy. It also means he's got a ton of wear on the tires. He's earned the right to go out on his terms. That doesn't always mean he wants to play until he's 42 like Favre did.
I can't tell if you're echoing what I'm saying, or misunderstanding it, but you and I completely see eye to eye. I wouldn't be shocked if Eli said that this is his last contract, or something to that effect. It would explain this sudden urgency for a QB (and if they were going to trade up for Mahomes, and settled for Webb, that does suggest urgency). My point was simply he's earned the right to call his own shot.
And if Harrison tore his ACL, our defense could actually fall apart.
I would argue Harrison may be the most important player on the team outside of Odell Beckham.
I certainly see your point. Still think we need a RB to make plays out of the backfield. The defense was spectacular last season and that wasn't enough. I'm okay with the DT at 2. Its the QB at 3 I'm not sure about about.
Has some wrinkles but is smart and has a big arm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdctyI9j5I
also gives us some "read option" potential near the goal line. Great size/underrated athleticism/cannon arm.
All the tools ... hope it all comes together.
Torrag : 4/26/2017 8:05 am
I'm not a fan of Trubisky or Mahomes. That said I think he's a clear 2nd Rounder.
Very good value as Mac and Ross indicated they thought he'd be long gone off the board by #87.
Let's try filling the holes we have first ok?
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LOLWUT?
The comments he made towards Sefo were not suitable for print
I found a video clip of this alleged racism:
Davis Webb is despicable!! - ( New Window )
I'm fine with the DT. But with the third we have other needs greater than a questionable QB.
Typical Reese 3rd round pick.
I'm fine with the DT. But with the third we have other needs greater than a questionable QB.
Typical Reese 3rd round pick.
So your philosophy is picking base off need. That's not how good teams build their roster, but carry on.
Because while arm is important, it isn't the only thing. To me you have to make an NFL throw or you can't make it. You have to throw accurately. You have to be a leader and take command of your team. You have to have a quick release. You have to make quick decisions. You have to work harder especially in the film room than any other position. You have to handle pressure. You have to read defenses. You have to make progressions. There is a lot to playing QB. I had Trubisky as a top 15 QB. I had Mahomes slightly ahead of Webb as a late first and Webb as a mid to late 2nd rounder. I had everyone else as 4th rounders or later.
I get that many on BBI are disappointed that this doesn't fill an immediate need, but you've got to think about the future and not just next season.
And speaking of the future...since I believe that Webb will one day be the starting QB, I fully expect that this thread will be archived. So I'd like to give a shout out to my future self. I hope things worked out for you ;>)
There could not be a clearer signal that the front office believes Eli's shelf life is short. It is prudent for them to plan based on that. They need someone who is ready to play after a couple of watching and learning. We can argue all day about whether or not Webb is that guy, but a guy was needed and this is the one the front office liked.
And for the "win now" folks confused by the pick - who was on the board late in the third round that was going to make this team noticeably better this year and next? I'll stop you right there...there wasn't one. You don't get "win now" talent late in the third round unless you trip over a lottery ticket.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
There could not be a clearer signal that the front office believes Eli's shelf life is short. It is prudent for them to plan based on that. They need someone who is ready to play after a couple of watching and learning. We can argue all day about whether or not Webb is that guy, but a guy was needed and this is the one the front office liked.
And for the "win now" folks confused by the pick - who was on the board late in the third round that was going to make this team noticeably better this year and next? I'll stop you right there...there wasn't one. You don't get "win now" talent late in the third round unless you trip over a lottery ticket.
Right on cue, Britt barrels in with "fuck this pick" lol.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Settle down. We all know you are anti-Reese, but QB is absolutely a need.
I read that Eli is 7th all time in NFL pass attempts, 7th! Eli is my favorite athlete of all time, but he is 36 and has a ton of wear & tear on that arm.
How many developmental QB's have the Patriots taken? Who would have thought Dak would be what he is. I don't want another post Simms transition. This division has 2 young QB's in Dak & Wentz, and Cousins has proven he can win the division. Giants need to start thinking about the transition, and if the value was there, why not? They didn't mortgage a future first rounder for this pick.
Also, for all the shit the Nassib pick gets, he was a serviceable backup. I don't care who your starting QB is, teams always need a developmental QB that knows the offense. I completely understand the pick.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Britt, what direction would you have preferred we gone? What player would you have picked?
I don't pretend to know who we should have taken, I just know that we needed somebody that has the potential to contribute on offense now. Not in three years (maybe).
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
I don't buy this. There have been a ton of first round busts too.
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We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
Well, yeah, great. It's easy, we'll be just like the Patriots.
Why is it that teams like the Eagles and Patriots can take these project/prospect QB's and end up getting picks for them, then ask yourself what have we gotten in return for all of our project QB's over the past 10 years?
Frigging AJ Feely, 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb was traded for DRC AND a 2nd round pick! What did the Pats get Matt Cassel? A first rounder? High second? What are they going to get for Garrapolo?
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
Counterpoints to a not unfair argument:
1. #3 round isnt a middle round, and each prospect needs to be considered on his own.
2. The exception is becoming increasingly common
3. Many of the top QBs are #1 overall picks -- so should we just wait until we're the worst team in the NFL.
4. I havent dont a deep dive but there are a LOT of valueless QB picks in the first and second rounds, particularly outside of the very top picks. It's hardly just midround QBs who routinely dont pan out. And blown #1s and #2s are far costlier, obviously.
5. If you hit on a QB in the 3rd round (or later), it provides a massive cap advantage.
6. You need a backup QB. Giants fans forget this because Eli has been so durable. If you dont have a playable QB, you're done. So a 3rd rounder seems appropriate.
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In comment 13451636 Britt in VA said:
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We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
Well, yeah, great. It's easy, we'll be just like the Patriots.
Why is it that teams like the Eagles and Patriots can take these project/prospect QB's and end up getting picks for them, then ask yourself what have we gotten in return for all of our project QB's over the past 10 years?
Frigging AJ Feely, 2nd round pick. Kevin Kolb was traded for DRC AND a 2nd round pick! What did the Pats get Matt Cassel? A first rounder? High second? What are they going to get for Garrapolo?
Because their QBs get hurt/suspended, giving backups a chance to shine?
Some posers need to come in off the ledge. The Giants didn't just flip a coin or pull him out of their ass.
Jerry Reese said he hoped that Nassib would NEVER play, but a developmental backup was a position of need after David Carr left (who was a very serviceable backup). Nassib was a solid backup for us. That isn't a meaningless position.
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but I saw an interesting video of Colin Cowherd talking about Webb. They were asking if he was a future premier QB and Colin made a good point. He said that QB is one of those positions where almost every single good QB is a 1st round pick or very close to one. He said finding QBs out of the top round is almost a fluke. Outside of Dak/Russel Wilson/Brady/Romo - look at every other good QB. And this isn't a small sample size...
I hate the mid round QB selections. Danny Kanell. Mike Cherry. Nassib. Bomar. Andre Woodson. Jesse Palmer. I just don't think the return on investment is there as often as other positions.
Counterpoints to a not unfair argument:
1. #3 round isnt a middle round, and each prospect needs to be considered on his own.
2. The exception is becoming increasingly common
3. Many of the top QBs are #1 overall picks -- so should we just wait until we're the worst team in the NFL.
4. I havent dont a deep dive but there are a LOT of valueless QB picks in the first and second rounds, particularly outside of the very top picks. It's hardly just midround QBs who routinely dont pan out. And blown #1s and #2s are far costlier, obviously.
5. If you hit on a QB in the 3rd round (or later), it provides a massive cap advantage.
6. You need a backup QB. Giants fans forget this because Eli has been so durable. If you dont have a playable QB, you're done. So a 3rd rounder seems appropriate.
Totally fair argument.
At the end of the day, really, it's a third round pick. The overreactions on both sides to this are silly. It likely won't amount to anything more than a cheap backup (sorry Brady/Rodgers/Montana/Palmer/Big Ben comps in this thread alone), but if not even that happens, whatever -- this is the point in the draft where you can take a risk and, if your team is run competently, you can easily survive it.
But, I expect some head scratchers and skinny players high- so 'wait and see.'
but, obviously Asiata was my pick there.
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Little extreme but pretty accurate.
It's funny how a lot of posters change their position after the fact to coincide w the Giants company line. Several talented CBS went right after this shit pick that would've got Trevin Wade/Leon Hall off the field -- Jordon Lewis, Rasul Douglas, Cameron Sutton, etc. Could've made a very talented unit absolutely stacked and unfortunately a few went to division rivals.
The consistently good teams in this league hit on mid to late rounders with greater consistency than the rest of the league. Reese needs to get his shit together in this regard.
The only thing I can think of is they plan on him being the #2, potentially saving a drop against the cap having a rookie as the backup.
LOL!!
Reese sees Webb as being less "skittish".
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We didn't break twenty points in our final six games, paired with a championship caliber defense.
The time to win is now.
These project QB's are bullshit, and we never even get value in return for them like other teams do.
Jerry Reese's decade long history of shit picks outside of the first two rounds continues. Total f-cking waste.
Patriots expended 2nd and 3rd round picks on Garapollo and Brissett in respective years, while Brady is playing at an MVP level. It's called covering your ass. It would be irresponsible not to start the search for the next QB. Who knows, Eli might have told the FO privately that he's not playing beyond his current contract. Read Dave Te's stuff on him and step off the ledge.
This is a good argument for supporting this draft pick. We all know Patriots have the smartest guys running an NFL team, so copying them can't be a bad thing.
Taking Webb is a calculated risk. It looks like he's a difficult prospect to scout because his college tape is working in two weird or at least non-NFL-like offensive systems, but his physical and mental characteristics cry out NFL QB and taking him this year allows a molding and developmental process to occur on a reasonable schedule. Also, The Giants will know a lot more about their QB situation circa 2020 by next year, partly because Webb will have been working in the system for a year already.
Webb - ( New Window )
Webb_2 - ( New Window )
2) This pick was tremendous value. KC, CHicago, and Houston all mortgaged their futures to grab QB's that are roughly the same as Webb. In fact, IMO, Webb has a bigger upside.
3) I believe any of the OL players that folks are talking about, such as McDermott and Asiata, will still be there in the 4th (and maybe 5th).
So its a great value pick, and in a later round where the chances are we wouldn't get a player who can do anything for us this year anyway
Elis been hot and cold many times. He's been clutch a lot but he also has significant accuracy and timing problems even to this day.
I'm not really sold on Elis ability to throw a good deep ball anymore and I am curious to see how he throws the seam and the out routes now with Engram and Marshall here.
All QBs need playing time and some bullets flying around them. And I am not talking about 2 qtrs of a preseason game where they play with 4 starters and against even less. They need regular season snaps, and some time reading defenses and making throws. Hell, I would be fine if Webb played 85% of the snaps this pre-season!
Not saying I want Webb starting games or coming in when its 21-14 with 10 minute left, but McAdoo has to be more judicial with 4qtr snaps now that Eli is getting on in age.
Last thing I want to hear 2 years from now is..."we still do not know what we have in Davis Webb".
Sounds like Eli. Plays a style like Eli too.
I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. I am wondering what turned other teams off.
He sounds a lot like someone we know...
However, I am appalled by the comments on the site. People are making the most outlandish statements that could be considered slanderous.
What you can say definitively is that Webb has the physical characteristics to play in the NFL. If the Giants can mold him into a starting quality QB he will be a steal.
If not they will select another QB.
Webb has a high ceiling and a low floor.
Do we know for a fact that they tried to move up for mahomes? I ain't buying it. Rumors are just that.
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NYG Draft
1 - Evan Engram - TE/Ole Miss
2 - Dalvin Tomlinson - DT/Alabama
3 - Davis Webb - QB/California
My Draft
1 - David Njoku - TE/Miami
2 - Dion Dawkins - OL/Temple
3 - Montravious Adams - DT/Auburn
Prefer the Giants' tbh
Me too.
2) LB Zach Cunningham of Vanderbilt
3) FS/CB Desmond King of Iowa (still available)
Quantity. We only have three on the roster.
Quality. Two of the three are journeymen. If Harrison gets hurt, we have nothing.
Tend to agree. People are already forgetting how bad the run defense was before Snacks arrived.
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
Also agree, but in defense of those critics, Reese's QB selections (Bomar, Woodson, and Nassib) didn't exactly become great players. It's just more urgent now because Eli is reaching the end. Not there yet, but it's getting close.
His accuracy on throws longer than 15 or 20 yards.
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"Obviously, it gives you a little bit of a cushion and some breathing room, vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross said. You saw what happened in the first round, teams trading up everything to get those guys. We feel we have a fairly equal talent at the bottom of the third compared to some of the guys that went pretty high.
Ross is just saying what he needs to say to cover his ass for what will be perceived as a dumb draft, how serious were they about getting Eli's replacement by waiting until the third round, they should have made whatever move was necessary and moved up to get someone who made sense like the Texans did..
There is no urgent need to find Eli's replacement, so why would they have given up multiple first rounders to attempt to do so?
If one fell to them where he was worth the risk and he graded out right, fine (and that's what happened), but the whole point of considering a QB his year was to not have to force it, now or later.
Webb doesn't work out, he doesn't work out, but there's little risk or desperation here.
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
I think that over simplifies it for many. Also, those of us saying Eli was nearly done were torn apart every week. So they can't love Eli and also think he's almost done, since those seemed to be two different groups during the season. I know when I tried to make an argument for drafting a QB, some people (dpinz whatever his username is) made it personal.
I LOVE Eli and I'm bummed that he's starting to slow down, but at the same time, we need to draft a QB. However, I just don't think that 3rd round is the time to do it. Obviously I'm not in the room with them, but I'm part of the draft a QB high or don't draft one, camp. You find lots of studs drafted in all different rounds at most positions, but QB seems to be pretty skewed towards the top.
And as for people saying there are busts in the 1st too, some people don't understand boolean logic too well. Most successful QBs seem to be drafted high, but that isn't the same thing as saying most QBs drafted high are successful.
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I think drafting a QB bothers a lot of people because:
(1) It's an unpleasant reminder that Eli is near done.
(2) Folks hate drafting players they know won't play for a while.
But if the Giants waited to draft Eli's replacement the year before he retired or the year that he retired, fans would be screaming, "Why did the Giants wait so long? This guy isn't ready!"
I think that over simplifies it for many. Also, those of us saying Eli was nearly done were torn apart every week. So they can't love Eli and also think he's almost done, since those seemed to be two different groups during the season. I know when I tried to make an argument for drafting a QB, some people (dpinz whatever his username is) made it personal.
I LOVE Eli and I'm bummed that he's starting to slow down, but at the same time, we need to draft a QB. However, I just don't think that 3rd round is the time to do it. Obviously I'm not in the room with them, but I'm part of the draft a QB high or don't draft one, camp. You find lots of studs drafted in all different rounds at most positions, but QB seems to be pretty skewed towards the top.
And as for people saying there are busts in the 1st too, some people don't understand boolean logic too well. Most successful QBs seem to be drafted high, but that isn't the same thing as saying most QBs drafted high are successful.
Webb was supposed to be a high pick. I have no idea why he fell but it happens all the time. Essentially we got a borderline 1st rounder for a 3rd round pick. The other teams had to give away future picks to get a QB of what I think is equal value to Webb.
I think this was the perfect setup to get a potential Eli replacement.
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So while one was a lower pick just made to fill a backup position, the other is a potential 1st rounder who is being groomed to take over.
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But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
They probably did and he didn't work out. Most QBs don't work out, or they just settle into backup roles, does that mean we shouldn't be drafting them at all?
I don't pretend to know who we should have taken, I just know that we needed somebody that has the potential to contribute on offense now. Not in three years (maybe).
Oh good another weird arbitrary stat to get angry about.
We're not as bad in the latter rounds as you think, especially lately.
So much hang wringing over a 3rd round pick.
with new england trading up to snatch garcia who i really wanted there ,once he went i knew i would probably not like the pick there much but would love to be proved wrong in years from now
dont like the pick but dont totally hate it puts alot of pressure on day 3 to fix the OL that hasnt worked well for the OL players since diehl i pray they have diehl 2.0 targeted there with the shaky OL
Also, going beyond the developmental aspect of the pick, backup QB becomes more and more important as Eli ages. It's perfectly reasonable to assume he won't be as durable as he enters his late 30s. Webb will stricly be a 3rd QB this year, but if they just make contact with this pick, he should fill a pretty big upcoming need as our 2018 backup.
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But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So your answer is to ignore your scouts?
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But if hitdog is correct and the Giants had a second round grade on Webb?
Didn't the Giants have a 1st or 2nd round grade on Nassib? Wasn't that the same song and dance?
So they should never draft a qb again?
I don't love the pick but man some of you get so angry over these mid round picks. And now the whole ten year no second contract thing...Christ. How many mid round picks even get a second contract??
Jake Ballard, Bear pascoe, Paul Perkins, Devon kennard, will tye, and victor cruz say hi by the way. All latter round picks or undrafted. All worthy of second contracts if not for injury. That complaint is just an excuse to complain even if it's rooted in some truth. It's horse crap. And the last few drafts have been good to great.
The draft isn't for right now. Are you serious with this? You're going nuts over the giants taking a pretty highly touted qb in round 3 while their current starter is closing in on 40. Again it's not for right now and the draft isn't even over. What if Webb is the goods? The giants obviously had a good grade on him.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
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So we should just stop looking for a successor? i don't think so. You only hate the pick, because you're taking offense on eli's behalf. I doubt Eli is as close to upset about this pick.
It has nothing to do with Eli other than I want to have a shot to win while he still has a few good years left in him.
The odds are that this guy won't see a second contract with the Giants, or turn out to be much of anything. I'd have rather taken a shot, in that case, on somebody that will actually see the field in the next three years.
How much did Bromley see the field in his first year? You act like third rounders play a lot. A lot of times they sit on the bench. If Davis developes and in 2 years is starting our post transition could go smooth or we need a QB. To me worth taking a chance now with only a 3rd rounder.
Secondly, he's "closing in on 40"? Yeah, if four years away is "closing in. He's 36.
Based on what? The dude hasn't missed a game since high school.
I'm fine with looking for a successor. But if they are truly into finding one, I'd rather they just put their money where there mouth is and take him in Round 1.
To me, this feels like a waste.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I am happy with all those moves.
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Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
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In comment 13452448 AcesUp said:
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Eli may very well be an outlier, but his risk for injury increases and ability to recover decreases every year he's in the league. Aging is inevitable.
Eli is a lot closer to 35 right now than he is 40. If he was 38, okay... But he just turned 36 3 months ago.
I believe on 3 different QBs won a super bowl over the age of 35. So whether it's 35 or 40 - at a minimum you need to be prepared to replace him. Anything less is just foolish.
No offense, but that's a dumb way to look at it.
First of all, not that many Quarterbacks win Superbowls, period.
Secondly, two Quarterbacks over 35 have won Superbowls in the past two years. Your number is wrong.
John Elway won 2 Superbowls over the age of 35. So did Roger Staubach. Kurt Warner got to one, Brett Favre consistently was right there with the opportunity to get one over the age of 35 multiple times. Rich Gannon got there, so did Fran Tarkenton. Johnny Unitas and Jim Plunkett won them.
Age is a number. Performance is the measure, and Eli has not shown any indication of decline yet. The numbers don't reflect it, and his play on the field doesn't reflect it, despite what you read here.
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:32 pm : link : reply
Mallett, Tony Banks, Cutler, Gabbert - all fine athletes with pro arms, but all the cylinders are not clicking. If Webb is the Giants future, you might want to become a fan of another team. Better than Nassib, but then, that's not saying much. Doubt he sees the field in 2017, hope Geno does not either, as that means Eli is hurting
nflscouting : 4/29/2017 1:48 pm : link : reply
I scout, I don't draft. If a team likes him, so be it. My reports are based on what I see now & down the road. Now if "everybody" touted him as a 1, why was he there when the Giants pick. As I said, damn the best available athlete line - first three rounds, you fill needs & get those guys playing time. Day 3, find those sleepers.
Geno Smith is no gem, but he's going to be #2. Go look at the 2018 draft & juniors expected to come out. Waste a third this year on a clipboard holder when they need LB, edge, OT help? I believe in value.
D'Onta Foreman, Trey Hendrickson, James Conner, Vince Biegel.
Let's see how these guys do in 3 years compared to Webb, cool?
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
To me, a third rounder on a project Quarterback that didn't throw for over 10 yards on two thirds of his passes in his career and has accuracy issues doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies for any future succession plan.
Kind of reminds me of Dak Prescott
Mobility is very important to TT, less so in the NFL. Size takes a bigger role and mobility less. Webb moves ok, just not like Mahomes. For a pro prospect Webb may be a better choice.
Regardless, even though I can sit here and continue comparing, the fact is for two close QBs we used a 3rd round pick and KC gave away a lot of their future. This is a good gamble and excellent value.
That is really good info. Thanks!
Has anyone seen a side by side comparison of Webb vs. the QBs picked in the first round? What makes Trubisky and the others so much better than he is?
This is playing out a lot like the delusion with Nassib where people, til the end, claimed he could have gone in the first his draft year and just wouldn't let go of the he had a second round grade stuff... he went in the fourth for a reason. Webb went in the third for a reason (and no, citing Brady or Prescott outliers don't change that); that's who he is and what the league sees his value as, right now.
I expect a big year out of Eli, given what we've improved upon (at least on paper)..I understand why they took a QB where they did, albeit not thrilled with it..
Here's where I may differ with you..By all reports, Mahomes, who they ostensibly wanted, is not all that much better than Webb is. We shall see on that. Some scouts have said he's better than Mahomes. Doesn't matter if he is or not. But, it appears that the difference is negligible enough, that to give up what KC did, would be egregious, imo..Those very high picks, are so needed and to give them up, would have been incompetent by Reese..Imo..
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Again our downside here is minimal compared to the other three picks, and I don't see much difference.
Actually David, we do not know what's happening with Eli. It's possible he already told the team he only wants another year or two.
Webb's highlights are impressive.
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believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
The Packers picked Rodgers in the first round, not knowing how much longer Favre was going to play, which ended up being three more years before he "retired".
That's conviction when it comes to finding a real replacement.
They have a championship caliber defense, a HOF franchise Quarterback who can still play at a high level, and arguably the best WR in the league. They are one or two pieces away from being a viable Superbowl contender.
The time to win is now, and pardon me for feeling like it's a dumb move to waste a 3rd round pick on a 3 year project that may or may not pan out.
On the other hand, Jerry Reese has a pretty dreadful track record with everything past the 2nd round anyways, so maybe it didn't matter who we drafted.
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In comment 13452441 Britt in VA said:
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believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
I just added it up. 47% (15 of 32) of the starting QBs were not drafted in the 1st round. Players rise and fall for many reasons, some are meaningless. Its not a fact that a QB needs to be taken, or reached for, in the 1st round to be your guy.
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In comment 13452441 Britt in VA said:
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believe it or not. That would show me they really valued the guy, and the time to strike was now.
To me, this feels like a waste.
That's not logic. It's just a weird gut feeling.
Oh really? What's a more logical prediction, that a late third round project quarterback is going to come in and supplant our 15 year franchise HOF quarterback, or be another in a long list of projects that don't pan out and don't net us any value in return?
Here's my logic:
Danny Kanell (4th round), Mike Cherry (6th round), Ryan Nassib (4th round traded up to get), Rhett Bomar (5th round), Andre Woodson (6th round), Jesse Palmer (4th round).
All of the non first round quarterbacks that we've selected in the past 20 years.
What's your logic that Webb is going to buck that trend?
Past results don't dictate a future outcome. For how many years was it that the Giants could never find, or never bothered to look for a Wide Reciever?
Look, QB is the toughest roster spot to fill in any sport, and I have no idea if Webb is going to pan out, but you do actually have to try.
Even if you believe, like I do, that the most effective way to do it is tank for a #1 in a good year for QBs, that can and does fail very often too, and whiffing on a #1 overall is damn sure a lot more painful than blowing it on a 3rd round guy.