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NFT: NY Rangers @ Ottawa Senators. Game 2. 3 PM on NBC

Anakim : 4/29/2017 11:18 am
Guess I'm up to the plate
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RE: RE: And now the Devils are picking top 3  
Anakim : 4/29/2017 8:14 pm : link
In comment 13453919 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13453918 Anakim said:


Quote:


Flyers and Devils are secured spots in the top 3. FUCK. FUCK. I never saw Nolan Patrick play (never saw any of them play), but this fucking sucks.



I'm just shellshocked and disgusted and just all-around miserable.


This lottery is stupid. Three teams who finished outside the worst 5 teams are all picking top 3.



...Unless it works for the Knicks and we end up picking in the top 3...
YOU'VE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME  
Anakim : 4/29/2017 8:16 pm : link
FLYERS AND DEVILS ARE PICKING 1 AND 2



Seriously. SERIOUSLY? Do the hockey gods really hate us that much?
Devils are picking #1, Flyers at #2  
Anakim : 4/29/2017 8:17 pm : link
Nolan Patrick and Nico Hischier will be in the fucking division with us. MOTHERFUCKER.
RE: YOU'VE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13453929 Anakim said:
Quote:
FLYERS AND DEVILS ARE PICKING 1 AND 2



Seriously. SERIOUSLY? Do the hockey gods really hate us that much?


Good news is no Matthews and Laine or McDavid and Eichel at the top of the draft.

I like the Siwss kid (Hischier) and Patrick, but Nolan Patrick isn't in the same class as the top picks of the past few drafts.

So, there's that.
RE: Devils are picking #1, Flyers at #2  
B in ALB : 4/29/2017 8:22 pm : link
In comment 13453931 Anakim said:
Quote:
Nolan Patrick and Nico Hischier will be in the fucking division with us. MOTHERFUCKER.


Settle down anak. This is all your fault bc of this fugazi thread. Sad.
Did they change the model this year ?  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 8:28 pm : link
i thought in the past it was only one pick up for grabs?

Anyway I like the notion of a lottery which prevents tanking - fuck Colorado.

Our window likely got shorter with that result tonight. Going to be a big offseason for Gorton.

RE: Did they change the model this year ?  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 8:41 pm : link
In comment 13453959 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
i thought in the past it was only one pick up for grabs?

Anyway I like the notion of a lottery which prevents tanking - fuck Colorado.

Our window likely got shorter with that result tonight. Going to be a big offseason for Gorton.

Same format. Just stupid IMO, that the Flyers who had 88 points have the 2nd pick.

I don't like tanking either, but I also don't like the draft being so random.
Caps might have had a dozen  
Rob in Rockaway : 4/29/2017 8:49 pm : link
if we played them today
RE: RE: Did they change the model this year ?  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 9:08 pm : link
In comment 13453981 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13453959 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


i thought in the past it was only one pick up for grabs?

Anyway I like the notion of a lottery which prevents tanking - fuck Colorado.

Our window likely got shorter with that result tonight. Going to be a big offseason for Gorton.



Same format. Just stupid IMO, that the Flyers who had 88 points have the 2nd pick.

I don't like tanking either, but I also don't like the draft being so random.


Well 88 isn't much - my only complaint is it should be open kimono - the world sees it live. Not this 'trust me' we audited it bullshit

And every non playoff pick should go through a lottery not just top 6. If flyers legit got 2nd with 6% chance - then good for them. They didn't get to cheer much this year versus what Colorado did so I'm fine with idea in principle. Just think it can be tweaked
88 points  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 9:15 pm : link
is 3 games out of the playoffs.

The Av's had 48 points, the Canucks 69, Coyotes had 70. I don't even think the Av's really tanked. If they did they would have traded Duschene and Landeskog.

The Flyers were not a terrible team I don't mind simple reverse order of the standings.

tanking has box office ramifications. fans don't always like it and attendance drops a lot for many bad teams.

Great effort/goal by Cullen.  
JayBinQueens : 4/29/2017 9:25 pm : link
Caps tie it up on the PP
RE: 88 points  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13454035 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is 3 games out of the playoffs.

The Av's had 48 points, the Canucks 69, Coyotes had 70. I don't even think the Av's really tanked. If they did they would have traded Duschene and Landeskog.

The Flyers were not a terrible team I don't mind simple reverse order of the standings.

tanking has box office ramifications. fans don't always like it and attendance drops a lot for many bad teams.


This league is socialist when it comes to the cap. Way worse than any other league. As Rangers and canadiens fans we put up with a ton of bullshit on this Guys take below value deals everywhere because of this system - even the elite players I have to sit on a dildo every year because Crosby ovechkin and even Stamkos took well below market deals to help their teams manage through this.

So forgive me if I don't feel for bad teams that tried to emulate Edmonton and pay nothing on their team when they could easily have brought in more 2nd and 3rd line talents to get more points - don't get to accumulate generational talents through a draft.

In a way as much as I hate flyers fans - I'm proud that a team that keeps at least trying to compete out there lucks into a 2 pick after missing the playoffs or facing the caps for 3 straight years now.


Back to the Rangers - raanta should be in net in game 3 and if you're not going to play Buchnevich in game anyway, might as well go glass and lose with your guys. Up to you AV. You're used to embarrassing yourself this time of year so go right ahead
RE: RE: 88 points  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 9:32 pm : link
In comment 13454049 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 13454035 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


is 3 games out of the playoffs.

The Av's had 48 points, the Canucks 69, Coyotes had 70. I don't even think the Av's really tanked. If they did they would have traded Duschene and Landeskog.

The Flyers were not a terrible team I don't mind simple reverse order of the standings.

tanking has box office ramifications. fans don't always like it and attendance drops a lot for many bad teams.




This league is socialist when it comes to the cap. Way worse than any other league. As Rangers and canadiens fans we put up with a ton of bullshit on this Guys take below value deals everywhere because of this system - even the elite players I have to sit on a dildo every year because Crosby ovechkin and even Stamkos took well below market deals to help their teams manage through this.

So forgive me if I don't feel for bad teams that tried to emulate Edmonton and pay nothing on their team when they could easily have brought in more 2nd and 3rd line talents to get more points - don't get to accumulate generational talents through a draft.

In a way as much as I hate flyers fans - I'm proud that a team that keeps at least trying to compete out there lucks into a 2 pick after missing the playoffs or facing the caps for 3 straight years now.


Back to the Rangers - raanta should be in net in game 3 and if you're not going to play Buchnevich in game anyway, might as well go glass and lose with your guys. Up to you AV. You're used to embarrassing yourself this time of year so go right ahead


cap, spending, contracts, etc. is my biggest blind spot in hockey, so I'll take your word for it, but in general I don't have a problem with shedding salary for a rebuild, obviously don't like teams just deciding to be cheap.

I don't think you can yank Hank after this one game. He really did win the Canadiens series by outplaying Price. I think the Rangers have to give him another game, problem is game 3 is a must-win so if he's off his game it's a fatal mistake. I'd roll the dice with Hank though.
But the game 1 loss was brutal too  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 9:40 pm : link
So it's not just today's atrocity

If we didn't have a good back up I wouldn't say this - but sometimes you have to be bold to change a series. Ottawa appears to be in Hanks head. He's been terrible.

And It's not even uncommon anymore that cups are won with two goalies.

What's to lose now anyway? Feelings are hurt? And yes I understan yet again we couldn't produce in an overtime Nash in particular can go fuck himself not converting that lay up
I fully expect Nash to pot 15  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 9:48 pm : link
For Toronto next years playoffs playing under Matthews as wing man

But for us year after year there's excuse after excuse why he can't convert the simplest of winning goals. Whatever.
RE: But the game 1 loss was brutal too  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 9:51 pm : link
In comment 13454065 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
So it's not just today's atrocity

If we didn't have a good back up I wouldn't say this - but sometimes you have to be bold to change a series. Ottawa appears to be in Hanks head. He's been terrible.

And It's not even uncommon anymore that cups are won with two goalies.

What's to lose now anyway? Feelings are hurt? And yes I understan yet again we couldn't produce in an overtime Nash in particular can go fuck himself not converting that lay up


Game 1 Hank was incredible IMO. The Senators had like 45 shots, many quality scoring chances. That GW was obviously soft, but I don't put the game 1 loss on Hank. Could have easily been 4 or 5 to 1 (not discounting how well Andersen played).

He was good  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 10:07 pm : link
Until the shot at the end from behind the goal line that went in. Your best players need to be at their best when the stakes are highest.

Clearly today he was rattled because we didn't get NHL goaltending today.

I would make the switch. I don't see much downside at this point. What are the odds to come back 0-2 in a series when Corsi is fairly even over two games? 10%?

RE: He was good  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 10:09 pm : link
In comment 13454092 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
Until the shot at the end from behind the goal line that went in. Your best players need to be at their best when the stakes are highest.

Clearly today he was rattled because we didn't get NHL goaltending today.

I would make the switch. I don't see much downside at this point. What are the odds to come back 0-2 in a series when Corsi is fairly even over two games? 10%?


Well the other thing against bringing in Raanta is when's the last time he played?

Seems like it's been a few weeks.

it's a must-win game, obviously, so nothing would surprise me, but if it's me, I keep Hank in there and make other lineup changes. I'd sit Holden and Staal, but not sure there are two replacements.
You can't be serious with this Raanta stuff  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:14 pm : link
Come on now. It's one poor game. Literally his first one of the playoffs. It's just easy to blame the goalie I guess.

Ottawa is in his head? He stood on that same head in game 1 and gave us a chance to win when the team played like crap.
They knocked the puck off Nash's stick  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:16 pm : link
Turris saved the game. Not like he missed the net
They're not benching Hank  
B in ALB : 4/29/2017 10:17 pm : link
Nor should they.

Fucking stupid.
Clendening is better than both  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 10:21 pm : link
Though Staal I think is fine on third pair. But that's a coaching issue

We played Buch and Lindbergh 5 minutes each today in 85 minutes. The coach at this point might as well go 3 lines with glass hitting guys. It worked 30 years ago maybe It will work again. Doubt it given statistical analysis but what do I know

If lundqvist does his job today it's a non issue I get that -- up 2 goals with 3 minutes left its brutal. But 3 lines when the only competitive advantage you have this year is 4 lines ? His overtime strategy was awful (as is faith in Nash at this point)
We have a shot to come back in this series  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:21 pm : link
precisely because of the levels that HL can reach, and frequently does reach in the playoffs. Raanta can't do that. Came into this game with a .948 save percentage in the playoffs. One bad game and it's to the bench? I don't get it. I understand the frustration, this is a good place to vent. I'm pissed off at just about everybody involved in that atrocity to end the 3rd period. But this is just non-sensical
RE: They knocked the puck off Nash's stick  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 10:24 pm : link
In comment 13454105 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
Turris saved the game. Not like he missed the net


There are 50 things you can do to score there. Be better than the other guy for once. Angle it where not obvious to shoot. Lift the puck. Take a breath and assess. I don't know - STOP FAILING in big spots. I don't know what else to say. It's pathetic how small he comes up in big spots.
Caps are in big time trouble  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:26 pm : link
yet again
Phil  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 10:27 pm : link
Kessel is made for playoff hockey, and it appears I have underestimated the Penguins again.
Guys  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 10:30 pm : link
Raanta is not some stiff.

Neither is talbot who is just about to will Edmonton to WCF despite his team being badly outplayed both games so far

Nobody said lundqvist was done -- but the last 6 periods or so have been brutal. Atrocious. I was pacing up 5-3 with 4 minutes left and it turns out I was right unfortunately -- even as they had 18 shots in 58 minutes!! we have seen this movie before with this group and we endured it again today
Team won't recover after this...  
M.S. : 4/29/2017 10:32 pm : link

...debacle today.

Depend upon it.

They are cooked.

RE: Team won't recover after this...  
B in ALB : 4/29/2017 10:35 pm : link
In comment 13454123 M.S. said:
Quote:

...debacle today.

Depend upon it.

They are cooked.


Who are you? Never post on a Rangers thread all season, then you bring your bullshit ellipses? Be gone.
This has to be  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 10:36 pm : link
a goal, right?
I just think your blame is misplaced  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:44 pm : link
We were all pacing too, but because this defense treats the puck like a hand grenade when they're protecting the lead. Not sure if you've played goal either but characterizing the 4th and 5th goals as soft is nuts. The puck literally changes direction on a tip right in front of him as our defense doesn't pick up anybody yet again. Certainly could have had them if it happened to hit him, but they're not soft goals.

You're just always the first person to rush to bash him after a game like this and when he stands on his head and carries the team there's not a word said. Don't get it. He had 40+ saves in game 1, that's part of those brutal periods you're talking about?

Somehow after all this time, the guy still doesn't get the credit he deserved. he's carried below average defensemen and playoff scoring for years. I know I know, tampa game 3, New Jersey game 5. We hear it over and over. Dude is afforded zero margin for error. 110 playoff starts with a .923 save % and 2.27 GAA. Better numbers than Brodeur, Roy, Price, Quick, among many others.
RE: You can't be serious with this Raanta stuff  
MetsAreBack : 4/29/2017 10:46 pm : link
In comment 13454102 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
Come on now. It's one poor game. Literally his first one of the playoffs. It's just easy to blame the goalie I guess.

Ottawa is in his head? He stood on that same head in game 1 and gave us a chance to win when the team played like crap.


And it wasn't a bad game. It was
In most cases a season ended. Playoff time and you give up 6 in under 40 shots? I hope we are good enough to overcome this without home ice in this series but I analytically doubt it. I love lundqvist and I love Nash but I'm calling it what it is -- they likely cost us our season today
We're not even playing this game today  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:49 pm : link
without the way those two played in the first round.
At least we're not the caps  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 10:55 pm : link
Last, best chance for them and it's looking like the same typical 2nd round exit. Talk about being in a team's head, the Pens occupy a lot of space up there for the Caps. Ovechkin seems to be slowing down a bit and they're set for a mass exodus this offseason.
I get what MAB is saying I think  
pjcas18 : 4/29/2017 11:01 pm : link
he wants Hank to pull a Tim Thomas or Jonathan Quick (2012 not 2014) and pretty much put the team on his back for 16 games.

Rise up and grab the Conn Smythe along with the cup.

but so far he just hasn't done that and it's a fair criticism/observation. He's had lights out games and then lapses like today. He's was lights out the entire Canadiens series though.

I just think he's the Rangers best chance to win even if Raanta isn't Dustin Tokarski.
I get it, and we're all frustrated  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 11:08 pm : link
Because it's looking like another season without a cup.

But from 2012-15 in the playoffs he posted save percentages of: ..931, 934, .927, .928. Vezina level numbers if that's over a full season. Certainly Conn Smythe worthy

Scoring output in that time: 43 goals in 20 games, 26 goals in 12 games, 64 goals in 25 games, 45 goals in 19 games including two home shutouts in the conference final. The margin is razor thin. He has done his fair share.

Quick had that insane 2012 run but also won a cup in which he posted a 2.58 GAA in the playoffs. The help has got to be there
Anyway, hopefully we have another comeback in us  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 11:16 pm : link
Always appreciate the discussion and debate, even if there's disagreement.

Go Rangers
Kevin Shattenkirk was atrocious tonight  
Anakim : 4/29/2017 11:16 pm : link
Like Holden bad
He's had a terrible playoff  
Kyle in NY : 4/29/2017 11:23 pm : link
I'm starting to think we should stay away
.  
arcarsenal : 1:26 am : link
I don't understand this fucking team.

I have not done research or compiled any of this data but it seems like they are utterly incapable of winning a game in "comfortable" fashion and that they basically never go up by 2 or more goals in a playoff game and actually hold that lead.

How many of our playoff wins have had to come by protecting a 1 goal lead in crunch time and crossing our fingers while the opposing team pulls their goalie and peppers our net with shots for nearly 2 minutes straight? Over the last 5+ season's the number HAS to be close to 90%.

Now we're no longer protecting these 1-goal leads - we're blowing them. And once we blow them, we never ever strike back and come out on top.

It's bizarre. When we can't score, the other team usually doesn't score much either. When we lose, we very rarely get blown out. Then, when we actually do score a handful of goals, we give just as many up.

I watched this game with a handful of guys who are huge NYR fans and we all just seemed to know when it was 5-3 that the Senators were inevitably going to get the 4th goal - we just weren't sure when. But we knew when they did, they'd start to gain that momentum and feel like they could tie it up. Sure enough....

The Rangers were almost invincible for a long time when entering 3rd periods with leads - but even then, we rarely added an extra goal to really put the nail in the coffin. We always had to sweat it out. Now, we look like a team that is scared and plays like they're just hoping the clock runs out before the opponent evens things up.

This was a nauseating loss on so many levels. Especially because once the Senators tied the game, much like Game 2 against MTL, it was over. I might be using selective memory here but I feel like we pretty much NEVER win under these circumstances.

I haven't really read through this thread but if you guys are talking about yanking Hank.. c'mon. It's not happening and it shouldn't. He let a few in today that he shouldn't have but we had a lot of breakdowns in front of him and made way too many mistakes. Raanta isn't saving this series for us.

We dug a huge fucking hole and now we need to get out one game at a time. I really just don't think Ottawa is all that good. Maybe it's sour grapes - I don't know. I'm just not coming out of these games feeling like we're really getting beat as much as I feel like we're doing a lot of really stupid fucking things.

Couple days to re-group here. We're going to need a big time effort in Game 3 at home. I'm not convinced this series is over yet. But we're going to have to get our shit together immediately. We no longer have any margin for error.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 11:06 am : link
Rangers were 19th in GF% (5 on 5) during 16-17 when up 1. 12th 5v5 all.

14th in 15-16 up 1. 3rd 5v5 all.

3rd vs. 6th in 14-15, so not a big change.

3rd in all, 10th in +1 in 13-14.

Their Sv% up 1 in the past few years: 15th, 6th, 5th, 1st.

I blame the coaching in large part. Look at Smith/Skjei's ice time yesterday. Lindberg/Buch got ~5 minutes each. The coach has also relied on bad defensemen (Girardi/Staal) the past couple years in those situations and it's predictably backfired on him.

I don't get how Gorton isn't furious - he, again, spends assets on upgrading the D and the coach plays the on the third pair. AV is utterly lost managing the defense. I thought he did a great job against Montreal and he deserves credit for that - but he's making the same mistakes again. And it's killing the team.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 1:04 pm : link
Sean Hartnett‏ @HartnettHockey 12s12 seconds ago
More
#NYR HC Alain Vigneault on Smith usage: "We were looking for certain matchups." "He was playing with bite, it just happened that way."

Now that the dust has settled and the emotions  
redbeard : 1:08 pm : link
Are more in check cant we all just agree this loss started and ended with anak's weak ass effort?
Completely agree  
Kyle in NY : 1:19 pm : link
beard needs to lead us onto the ice for game 3

AV seems like a lost cause at this point. Two of our three best defensemen don't see the ice for the last six minutes of regulation when protecting a lead. I cannot wrap my mind around that.
Nope  
B in ALB : 1:33 pm : link
It's my game Kyle. I'm bringing the pain.
RE: Completely agree  
BrettNYG10 : 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13454786 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
beard needs to lead us onto the ice for game 3

AV seems like a lost cause at this point. Two of our three best defensemen don't see the ice for the last six minutes of regulation when protecting a lead. I cannot wrap my mind around that.


It's a total organizational failure at this point. Lundqvist has totally impaired the ability for this team to analyze the defense in recent years because of how good he's been.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 1:36 pm : link
Sean Hartnett‏
@HartnettHockey

Following
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#NYR HC Alain Vigneault on his defensive pairings: "Right now I like the look of our pairs and I don't see myself making any changes there."
I'm all for the beard's return  
gidiefor : Mod : 1:43 pm : link
d@mn it -- predictable it is --- all the frikken lemmings in a hissy fit running for the cliffs

It ain't over yet folks -- rub some dirt on it and suk it up

Go Rangers!!!!
.....  
Route 9 : 1:46 pm : link
Arc, I think that only 2 wins to TB (were not one goal wins) in their 2015 playoff wins were by 2 goals or more, the rest were one goal nail bitters. For example.
RE: I'm all for the beard's return  
B in ALB : 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13454821 gidiefor said:
Quote:
d@mn it -- predictable it is --- all the frikken lemmings in a hissy fit running for the cliffs

It ain't over yet folks -- rub some dirt on it and suk it up

Go Rangers!!!!


Sorry gid. But you don't get a say when you only showed up during the playoffs. No sir.
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