and found "giant type" guys throughout. Engram may be the tipping point weapon for our passing game. We replaced Hankins. Webb might be our next QB. Gallman give us a nice rotation again. Moss is a Giant Type Pass Rusher. And the blue collar tackle from Pitt is the kind of player that has worked out for us.
Really wish we could have taken an edge rusher higher.
Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
RE: Really wish we could have taken an edge rusher higher.
And a CB in round 3 instead of Webb. CB was so deep and we didn't draft into the strongest position.
boo hoo i guess we're stuck with 1 of the best CB trios in the NFL. its pretty obvious with the mahomes rumors/webb pick that those those who have careers relevant to the giants performance are concerned about Eli's outlook - as they should be. Hes not going to get better, selecting a possible successor to keep this franchise from tanking post-Eli is a good move. from what i've gathered webb basically has the talent of a cutler/stafford with the work ethic of Eli. it's so crazy, it just might work.
Engram is a WR/TE tweener of the type you usually see drafted later. Reed was a 3rd rounder, Hernandez was a 4th rounder and Marshall was a 6th rounder. He's a gamble.
The DT has already had two ACL surgeries. The betting line is that he has a short career or another knee problem shortly. Another gamble.
Webb is ok. He may be a bust but taking a developmental qb in the 3rd or 4th round is a normal practice so can't kill them for doing it.
Gallman is a Giants-type pick. They often will take a rb in the 4th round. He's not particularly fast, not particularly elusive, and is competition for Darkwa I guess.
Moss, I question whether he will make the team. Puts some pressure on OO I guess.
Bisnowaty is Flowers flop insurance. Rides the pine for a year until they see if Flowers survives at LT.
A couple of gambles, some usual choices and a couple of developmental guys- C
Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
Dude, seriously? Could you take the keyboard you are using and smash it into your face about 50 times? You are quite the miserable person.
Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
Dude, seriously? Could you take the keyboard you are using and smash it into your face about 50 times? You are quite the miserable person.
Why, because I don't dick ride every Giants pick like you?
...I'm good with the results. It's funny listening to the concerns on the lack of activity with drafting an Olineman. What has been tabbed a very weak draft for OL, I had little expectation our answer was in this draft.
Engram - love what he brings to the offense! Another weapon with very good speed!
Tomlinson - Beef in the middle, he only adds to a good run defense!!
Webb - talented QB with a good arm....get him trained in an NFL system and we might have our future QB.
Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
Dude, seriously? Could you take the keyboard you are using and smash it into your face about 50 times? You are quite the miserable person.
Why, because I don't dick ride every Giants pick like you?
Yes, that's exactly it. Nail on the head, chief.
It's an hour after the draft and your acting as if the fucking sky is falling. It's beautiful out today. Go take a walk
Draft I would say was okay, but generally good Offseason altogether.
Marshall and Engram should really be what the doctor ordered to bust up all the cover-2 crap and create some hits down the seams, and give OBJ some relief.
Ellison provides some talent with edge blocking and a better athlete on the field than our normal TEs. Maybe Fluker can add value?
Re-signing JPP and filling hole left by Hankins seems like a nice positive, although using up #2s every few years for DTs is getting tedious. Would like to have gotten some type of athletic LB with a little pass rush so that is still missing.
If Gallman adds little more dynamic running style into ground game then you have to really like the offensive balance we can offer all over the field.
Didn't add a CB or Safety in a deep draft for both. Getting Thompson back though is a plus and keeping Adams on the bench is only a positive.
Tough not have had ability to better address the O-line since we suck at it, but down year for free agency/drafting lineman...figures.
Engram is a WR/TE tweener of the type you usually see drafted later. Reed was a 3rd rounder, Hernandez was a 4th rounder and Marshall was a 6th rounder. He's a gamble.
The DT has already had two ACL surgeries. The betting line is that he has a short career or another knee problem shortly. Another gamble.
Webb is ok. He may be a bust but taking a developmental qb in the 3rd or 4th round is a normal practice so can't kill them for doing it.
Gallman is a Giants-type pick. They often will take a rb in the 4th round. He's not particularly fast, not particularly elusive, and is competition for Darkwa I guess.
Moss, I question whether he will make the team. Puts some pressure on OO I guess.
Bisnowaty is Flowers flop insurance. Rides the pine for a year until they see if Flowers survives at LT.
A couple of gambles, some usual choices and a couple of developmental guys- C
So the examples you gave (Reed, Hernandez, and Marshall) produced at a level you would want from a first rounder. 6'3 230 and 4.4 speed. If he was a WR with his production he's going in the first round still.
Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
I present exhibit A on people providing grades as if their opinions meant something, cutting and pasting from their favorite draft guide, and presenting it as their own original thought. I doubt you have seen anyone outside of Engram even play. Stick to the day job- sure hope you are better at that than this nonsense.
If Webb turns into an average starter at QB it could be a great draft but the odds are stacked heavily against him and we have needs right now. It's a huge gamble, but the value is there and I get their making it in that spot.
When we got Eli we gave up a 1st, 3rd and 5th. It could cost at least that much to find his successor. Let's say Webb is the 3rd. Maybe in 2 years we draft a guy in round 1. If Webb or the future first rounder become our guy then we've still paid a reasonable price for a franchise QB. Sure it would be nice to manage it like the Pack did with Rodgers and use only 1 (late) first round pick to find the guy but that is very rare.
Engram was a great pick and will take our offense to another level.
Tomlinson is a good pick but I was hoping that they would go with Wormley if they went DT in round two because I felt that he would have been a better fit next to Harrison.
I did not like the Webb pick at all either because I am not sure what his ceiling is. I wanted to wait until next year to get Eli's future replacement. If Webb truly has Cutler's ability with an actual work ethic then I will be very happy with this pick in time.
Really and what if we draft anywhere from 28 to 32 next year ?????
They need Engram and Tomlinson to be at least above-average starters, but that's always true for first and second-round picks. That's not any more luck than usual. But they need enough luck that neither is a bust.
They need Webb to develop and become good enough to either succeed Eli or get something back something valuable in a trade. Ryan Nassib didn't. Neither did Rhett Bomar, Andre Woodson or Jared Lorenzen. Or Mike Cherry or Jesse Palmer, if you want to go back that far. So there's some luck there.
Wayne Gallman: If they're lucky, he's Alfred Morris. If they're not, he's Andre Williams.
Avery Moss: If they're lucky, he's Justin Tuck. If they're not, he's Isaac Hilton.
Adam Bisnowaty: If he turned out to be a solid starting LT, or more than a solid starter at any position, that would make this a lucky draft all by itself. If he sticks around beyond his rookie contract, even as a second-stringer, they got OK value on the pick. If he cracks the starting lineup, or excels, they got very lucky.
This could be one of those awful drafts the Giants had over the last 10 years, where almost no one stuck around long, or it could be the key to their next championship. If they're lucky.
They need Engram and Tomlinson to be at least above-average starters, but that's always true for first and second-round picks. That's not any more luck than usual. But they need enough luck that neither is a bust.
They need Webb to develop and become good enough to either succeed Eli or get something back something valuable in a trade. Ryan Nassib didn't. Neither did Rhett Bomar, Andre Woodson or Jared Lorenzen. Or Mike Cherry or Jesse Palmer, if you want to go back that far. So there's some luck there.
Wayne Gallman: If they're lucky, he's Alfred Morris. If they're not, he's Andre Williams.
Avery Moss: If they're lucky, he's Justin Tuck. If they're not, he's Isaac Hilton.
Adam Bisnowaty: If he turned out to be a solid starting LT, or more than a solid starter at any position, that would make this a lucky draft all by itself. If he sticks around beyond his rookie contract, even as a second-stringer, they got OK value on the pick. If he cracks the starting lineup, or excels, they got very lucky.
This could be one of those awful drafts the Giants had over the last 10 years, where almost no one stuck around long, or it could be the key to their next championship. If they're lucky.
so this draft may be good, but may be bad. thanks.
The number of Day 1-2 QBs who have been developed and flipped for a comparable draft pick, and tons of teams try. The real gamble is that he turns into a successor to Eli, and the odds of a third rounder becoming a league average QB are quite low. I get the gamble, I don't hate it, but that's what he is. A lottery ticket.
so this draft may be good, but may be bad. thanks.
Well, the question was, how do we think they did?
And the honest answer is that hardly any of us know about most of these guys, and nobody knows the future. So yeah, it could be good or it could be bad.
But I think this draft class has several high risk/high reward picks: Webb, Gallman and Moss. It doesn't strike me as a "safe" draft. So I think they need to get a little lucky this year.
was just three rounds with little study . The Webb pick through me for a loop .
1) David Njoku
2) Dion Dawkins
3) D'onta Foremen
I wasn't crazy about all the picks when I saw Engram my first thought was Travis Beckham part two but obviously Engram is
a much better prospect I have a preference for a bigger/taller TE .But if he can open up that seam we will
score more .
I understand the Tomlinson pick and I really haven't looked at his tape so not sure if he is as good as Hankins but we have seen this before I just hate being forced to replace him . I liked Dawkins and he went shortly after .
The we take Webb I don't know if anyone saw this coming but
one of my favorites went two picks later .
I sure hope the hell that Webb is a ten year starter with 3-4 pro-bowls or I don't think this will end up being a great draft . I hope he becomes a great player .
If we were gonna move up I would have tried to get Perrine
Gallman looks to be a gamer watching his short tape vs Bama and Fla St. minus LB Davis he runs kind of high so so blocker nice spin move . But he dosn't look to be an every down back in the NFL . We shall see how it plays out .
I thought Watkins DT would go higher we could have taken him in the 4th ....Oh well
Shit the bed this draft. Travis Beckham reincarnated with a first round pick this time. Pathetic. Absolutely no imagination. I can see him sitting there asking "is it our turn yet?"
Shit the bed this draft. Travis Beckham reincarnated with a first round pick this time. Pathetic. Absolutely no imagination. I can see him sitting there asking "is it our turn yet?"
Our TE weapon is already a bust before he has put on a NYG uniform.
Shit the bed this draft. Travis Beckham reincarnated with a first round pick this time. Pathetic. Absolutely no imagination. I can see him sitting there asking "is it our turn yet?"
Boy did you shit the bed with this "analysis." Absolutely no imagination. I can see you sitting there asking "do I have a clue?"
if Webb can hold down the position for 4 years, it's a worthwhile pick. We have Sanchez to be the first guy off the bench for this year, but nothing for next. The draft is partially about cap management. a low cost rookie contract is part of that management. a year or two from now, there's going to be a LOT of high priced FA/re-signings getting raises, so you're going to need offsetting areas of cap management. a best case scenario has Webb pushing Sanchez off the team this year, but I doubt it happens. My personal opinion is that you do not count on finding a starter QB after the first half of round one, but it could happen.
All that said, it seems like they got players of positional need (need extends out a couple of years). I don't know shit about any given player, so I won't comment. TE was considered a strength of the draft. They took one. DL was considered a strength, and they took one. QB was not a strength, so I can see the handwringing there, but I lean toward a cheap backup, maybe get lucky with a starter. Needed a RB, and a developmental OL.
to the BPA/need discussion. Clearly, clearly drafted with their needs in view. Souped up their offensive engine with a TE/WR, and backfield depth, filled the DT hole, placed a good bet on an OL prospect in the 6th round, put some possible future edge on the edge, and started hedging the QB situation as Eli approaches his best before date. In each of the six instances, the Giants picked players with some maturity and proven competence and as well as real upside. Their draft showed strategic coherence, and planning, and reacted well to the changes in situation as other teams jostled for advantage. Reese managed the situation well. McAdoo's reaction to last year's deficiencies and his influence was manifest, and the choices made mesh well with both last year's roster and our free agent pickups and losses. Importantly, it is apparent that priority was accorded both to maintaining last year's defensive dominance, and providing more traction to the sputtering offense. And the picks were not only short term, but also nicely balanced anticipation of future needs and possible developments going forward. Can hardly wait to see how this group shakes down. We cannot yet know the future, but for the present this was a job well done.
if Webb can hold down the position for 4 years, it's a worthwhile pick. We have Sanchez to be the first guy off the bench for this year, but nothing for next. The draft is partially about cap management. a low cost rookie contract is part of that management. a year or two from now, there's going to be a LOT of high priced FA/re-signings getting raises, so you're going to need offsetting areas of cap management. a best case scenario has Webb pushing Sanchez off the team this year, but I doubt it happens. My personal opinion is that you do not count on finding a starter QB after the first half of round one, but it could happen.
All that said, it seems like they got players of positional need (need extends out a couple of years). I don't know shit about any given player, so I won't comment. TE was considered a strength of the draft. They took one. DL was considered a strength, and they took one. QB was not a strength, so I can see the handwringing there, but I lean toward a cheap backup, maybe get lucky with a starter. Needed a RB, and a developmental OL.
With the new QB, most people have recognized what's behind door #1- potential replacement for Eli when Eli declines. Some, like yourself, see Door #2- cap savings. However, there is also Door #3, which is actually a mix of 1 and 2.
Eli has roster bonuses (fairly significant- $5M annually) starting with the next league season.
If the Giants feel that Eli has "lost it" or he has a bad season, the Giants are in the position of being able to cut Eli before the 2018 league year roster bonus is due. That would incur a $12.4M cap hit because of pro-rated bonuses. However, it would also provide $9.8M of new cap space.
As you correctly noted, Webb would be on a rookie deal- and cheap. As such, the Giants would at least be in the position of having a young, cheap QB who has had a year in the system who can take over and allow the Giants to do multiple things.
One- they can use that cap savings to sign Pugh (assuming he has a good 2017) without eating existing cap space.
Two- they can draft yet another QB- in a loaded QB draft- and have multiple options going forward at low cost.
Three- when OBJ's 5th year ends, Eli's entire deal would be off the cap- giving the Giants a massive cushion of absorb some of OBJ's big cap hit in year one of the extension instead of having to play the game of minimum base year one, and heavier hits in future years. In that way, they could even reduce the cap hit going forward by assigning some of the bonuses (for example, a roster bonus) in year 1 as opposed to year 2 where it increases the hit going forward.
Keep in mind that the Giants were not being complementary to Eli this off-season. Eli should now be on notice that he has to step up his game. Eli has been the best QB that the Giants have ever had- Simms, Tittle, etc. included. However, the modern NFL is a game of "what have you done for me lately"- ask Tony Romo how it works.
I agree with you, but... you're tying Webb's success to being an Eli replacement. IF he merely holds down the second string QB position, it's a success. being a starter is gravy.
I agree with you, but... you're tying Webb's success to being an Eli replacement. IF he merely holds down the second string QB position, it's a success. being a starter is gravy.
There may be an angle to consider here. Webb is MUCH better in the short passing game- apparently struggles a little with the deep ball. However, any honest Giants fan must admit that in the past several years, Eli has struggled with the deep ball too- and has "lost something on his Fastball."
The Giants MIGHT be looking longer term- and IF they REALLY believe (I am reserving judgment until 2018-2019) that he can at least be a placeholder- they might be considering using the Seattle/Dallas model. Have a cheap QB, use the money to build the rest of the team, and have the QB manage the game. In Seattle and Dallas, the success of the QBs has been magnified by winning and those around them. By themselves, they are not stars- but having talent around them makes them look like stars.
The Giants might just be collecting players who can make a QB who might be little more than an above-average game manager look like a good QB. By doing it on the cheap, they COULD use the money saved to invest in depth and high end talent.
I'm NOT saying this is what WILL happen. However, I think that we at least have to consider that the Giants might be taking a chance to see if they can catch lightening in a bottle too.
The opportunity cost of the third round qb selection concerns me however.
One half dozen cb's were selected in the third round subsequent to the Jints taking Webb.
Webb reminds me of Nassib. Looks good holding a chart/laptop. But I don't think he is the Jint qb of the future. While his leadership abilities are well documented and his size is prototypical the first thing I look for is a weakness for him and that is his accuracy throwing the ball.
I know you can't teach size and he is the son of a coach and a gym rat and all of that good stuff but this guy will end up being a backup qb
Next year's draft will be full of quality qb's. This year's draft was full of quality cb's. We don't have a replacement for Trevin Wade now. How long before we lament his loss?
Wade was a good utility slot corner his problems are when he has to play outside from the slot he was adequate.... he was nowhere as bad as everybody makes out imo .
Didn't like picks 4 and 5
jeff57 : 4/29/2017 5:00 pm : link : reply
Gallman reminds me of Tyrone Wheatley.
If a late round RB becomes a solid starter for several years, I think we'd take it. Heck, a 10 year career with 5,000 yards and 47 TD's I'd sign up for today.
We can't know if another team wouldn't have selected him if they hadn't traded up. Who would you have they preferred they had waited for?
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
boo hoo i guess we're stuck with 1 of the best CB trios in the NFL. its pretty obvious with the mahomes rumors/webb pick that those those who have careers relevant to the giants performance are concerned about Eli's outlook - as they should be. Hes not going to get better, selecting a possible successor to keep this franchise from tanking post-Eli is a good move. from what i've gathered webb basically has the talent of a cutler/stafford with the work ethic of Eli. it's so crazy, it just might work.
The DT has already had two ACL surgeries. The betting line is that he has a short career or another knee problem shortly. Another gamble.
Webb is ok. He may be a bust but taking a developmental qb in the 3rd or 4th round is a normal practice so can't kill them for doing it.
Gallman is a Giants-type pick. They often will take a rb in the 4th round. He's not particularly fast, not particularly elusive, and is competition for Darkwa I guess.
Moss, I question whether he will make the team. Puts some pressure on OO I guess.
Bisnowaty is Flowers flop insurance. Rides the pine for a year until they see if Flowers survives at LT.
A couple of gambles, some usual choices and a couple of developmental guys- C
yes! thankfully those in charge realize that too. the OL death rattle all draft, when the OL class was awful, was ridiculous.
i think reese has had a great offseason
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but fizzled out with the usual JAG type picks and trading up for no reason.
We can't know if another team wouldn't have selected him if they hadn't traded up. Who would you have they preferred they had waited for?
I'm not too upset at the trade up part. I actually like the last pick. They did what they had to do.
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
Dude, seriously? Could you take the keyboard you are using and smash it into your face about 50 times? You are quite the miserable person.
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Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
Dude, seriously? Could you take the keyboard you are using and smash it into your face about 50 times? You are quite the miserable person.
Why, because I don't dick ride every Giants pick like you?
Engram - love what he brings to the offense! Another weapon with very good speed!
Tomlinson - Beef in the middle, he only adds to a good run defense!!
Webb - talented QB with a good arm....get him trained in an NFL system and we might have our future QB.
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In comment 13453512 WillVAB said:
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Engram -- until he proves he can block at the next level he's essentially a niche player. There are a lot of opinions on whether or not he was the best TE available, let alone best player available. Outside of Bolles, they had their pick of the litter at offensive line. This pick could wind up being a homerun or a stinker -- really depends on if he's used correctly and how he develops. Right now I'm splitting the difference: C
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
Dude, seriously? Could you take the keyboard you are using and smash it into your face about 50 times? You are quite the miserable person.
Why, because I don't dick ride every Giants pick like you?
Yes, that's exactly it. Nail on the head, chief.
It's an hour after the draft and your acting as if the fucking sky is falling. It's beautiful out today. Go take a walk
Ellison provides some talent with edge blocking and a better athlete on the field than our normal TEs. Maybe Fluker can add value?
Re-signing JPP and filling hole left by Hankins seems like a nice positive, although using up #2s every few years for DTs is getting tedious. Would like to have gotten some type of athletic LB with a little pass rush so that is still missing.
If Gallman adds little more dynamic running style into ground game then you have to really like the offensive balance we can offer all over the field.
Didn't add a CB or Safety in a deep draft for both. Getting Thompson back though is a plus and keeping Adams on the bench is only a positive.
Tough not have had ability to better address the O-line since we suck at it, but down year for free agency/drafting lineman...figures.
The DT has already had two ACL surgeries. The betting line is that he has a short career or another knee problem shortly. Another gamble.
Webb is ok. He may be a bust but taking a developmental qb in the 3rd or 4th round is a normal practice so can't kill them for doing it.
Gallman is a Giants-type pick. They often will take a rb in the 4th round. He's not particularly fast, not particularly elusive, and is competition for Darkwa I guess.
Moss, I question whether he will make the team. Puts some pressure on OO I guess.
Bisnowaty is Flowers flop insurance. Rides the pine for a year until they see if Flowers survives at LT.
A couple of gambles, some usual choices and a couple of developmental guys- C
So the examples you gave (Reed, Hernandez, and Marshall) produced at a level you would want from a first rounder. 6'3 230 and 4.4 speed. If he was a WR with his production he's going in the first round still.
Tomlinson -- love his story and his game. Will be compared to other DTs that went around his pick. Instant starter: B+ (injury history)
Webb -- I'd bet a lot of money he never plays a meaningful snap on his rookie contract barring some fluke injury to Eli Manning. We see this every few years where Reese gets cute with picks on QBs that ultimately suck. very frustrating when the division gets better a few picks later with Lewis and Douglas. Either would've really solidified the depth of an already dominant secondary. Grade: F
Gallman -- productive player for a national championship team. Solidifies the backfield but I think comparable talent could've been had in the 5th. Liked the secondary talent available better. Grade: B
Moss -- productive small school guy with pass rushing ability. Worth a flier with JAGs Wynn and Owa on the roster. Grade: B
Bisnowaty -- All-ACC OT with the physical tools to be a very good pro. Played through an injury Senior year. Will instantly compete for a starting job at guard or tackle. Grade: A
I present exhibit A on people providing grades as if their opinions meant something, cutting and pasting from their favorite draft guide, and presenting it as their own original thought. I doubt you have seen anyone outside of Engram even play. Stick to the day job- sure hope you are better at that than this nonsense.
What would you do - try and guess how many years Eli has left and when you "think" he has two, then start shopping and hope you find "the guy"?
Tomlinson is a good pick but I was hoping that they would go with Wormley if they went DT in round two because I felt that he would have been a better fit next to Harrison.
I did not like the Webb pick at all either because I am not sure what his ceiling is. I wanted to wait until next year to get Eli's future replacement. If Webb truly has Cutler's ability with an actual work ethic then I will be very happy with this pick in time.
Really and what if we draft anywhere from 28 to 32 next year ?????
They need Webb to develop and become good enough to either succeed Eli or get something back something valuable in a trade. Ryan Nassib didn't. Neither did Rhett Bomar, Andre Woodson or Jared Lorenzen. Or Mike Cherry or Jesse Palmer, if you want to go back that far. So there's some luck there.
Wayne Gallman: If they're lucky, he's Alfred Morris. If they're not, he's Andre Williams.
Avery Moss: If they're lucky, he's Justin Tuck. If they're not, he's Isaac Hilton.
Adam Bisnowaty: If he turned out to be a solid starting LT, or more than a solid starter at any position, that would make this a lucky draft all by itself. If he sticks around beyond his rookie contract, even as a second-stringer, they got OK value on the pick. If he cracks the starting lineup, or excels, they got very lucky.
This could be one of those awful drafts the Giants had over the last 10 years, where almost no one stuck around long, or it could be the key to their next championship. If they're lucky.
They need Webb to develop and become good enough to either succeed Eli or get something back something valuable in a trade. Ryan Nassib didn't. Neither did Rhett Bomar, Andre Woodson or Jared Lorenzen. Or Mike Cherry or Jesse Palmer, if you want to go back that far. So there's some luck there.
Wayne Gallman: If they're lucky, he's Alfred Morris. If they're not, he's Andre Williams.
Avery Moss: If they're lucky, he's Justin Tuck. If they're not, he's Isaac Hilton.
Adam Bisnowaty: If he turned out to be a solid starting LT, or more than a solid starter at any position, that would make this a lucky draft all by itself. If he sticks around beyond his rookie contract, even as a second-stringer, they got OK value on the pick. If he cracks the starting lineup, or excels, they got very lucky.
This could be one of those awful drafts the Giants had over the last 10 years, where almost no one stuck around long, or it could be the key to their next championship. If they're lucky.
so this draft may be good, but may be bad. thanks.
If we could have gotten Bisnotaway and McDermott that would have been nice
And the honest answer is that hardly any of us know about most of these guys, and nobody knows the future. So yeah, it could be good or it could be bad.
But I think this draft class has several high risk/high reward picks: Webb, Gallman and Moss. It doesn't strike me as a "safe" draft. So I think they need to get a little lucky this year.
Wade is not on the team anymore I believe he was not tendered LOL
1) David Njoku
2) Dion Dawkins
3) D'onta Foremen
I wasn't crazy about all the picks when I saw Engram my first thought was Travis Beckham part two but obviously Engram is
a much better prospect I have a preference for a bigger/taller TE .But if he can open up that seam we will
score more .
I understand the Tomlinson pick and I really haven't looked at his tape so not sure if he is as good as Hankins but we have seen this before I just hate being forced to replace him . I liked Dawkins and he went shortly after .
The we take Webb I don't know if anyone saw this coming but
one of my favorites went two picks later .
I sure hope the hell that Webb is a ten year starter with 3-4 pro-bowls or I don't think this will end up being a great draft . I hope he becomes a great player .
If we were gonna move up I would have tried to get Perrine
Gallman looks to be a gamer watching his short tape vs Bama and Fla St. minus LB Davis he runs kind of high so so blocker nice spin move . But he dosn't look to be an every down back in the NFL . We shall see how it plays out .
I thought Watkins DT would go higher we could have taken him in the 4th ....Oh well
its a good look for the man child
It will be hard for Wade to be burned since he is no longer on the team.
Our TE weapon is already a bust before he has put on a NYG uniform.
Boy did you shit the bed with this "analysis." Absolutely no imagination. I can see you sitting there asking "do I have a clue?"
All that said, it seems like they got players of positional need (need extends out a couple of years). I don't know shit about any given player, so I won't comment. TE was considered a strength of the draft. They took one. DL was considered a strength, and they took one. QB was not a strength, so I can see the handwringing there, but I lean toward a cheap backup, maybe get lucky with a starter. Needed a RB, and a developmental OL.
All that said, it seems like they got players of positional need (need extends out a couple of years). I don't know shit about any given player, so I won't comment. TE was considered a strength of the draft. They took one. DL was considered a strength, and they took one. QB was not a strength, so I can see the handwringing there, but I lean toward a cheap backup, maybe get lucky with a starter. Needed a RB, and a developmental OL.
With the new QB, most people have recognized what's behind door #1- potential replacement for Eli when Eli declines. Some, like yourself, see Door #2- cap savings. However, there is also Door #3, which is actually a mix of 1 and 2.
Eli has roster bonuses (fairly significant- $5M annually) starting with the next league season.
If the Giants feel that Eli has "lost it" or he has a bad season, the Giants are in the position of being able to cut Eli before the 2018 league year roster bonus is due. That would incur a $12.4M cap hit because of pro-rated bonuses. However, it would also provide $9.8M of new cap space.
As you correctly noted, Webb would be on a rookie deal- and cheap. As such, the Giants would at least be in the position of having a young, cheap QB who has had a year in the system who can take over and allow the Giants to do multiple things.
One- they can use that cap savings to sign Pugh (assuming he has a good 2017) without eating existing cap space.
Two- they can draft yet another QB- in a loaded QB draft- and have multiple options going forward at low cost.
Three- when OBJ's 5th year ends, Eli's entire deal would be off the cap- giving the Giants a massive cushion of absorb some of OBJ's big cap hit in year one of the extension instead of having to play the game of minimum base year one, and heavier hits in future years. In that way, they could even reduce the cap hit going forward by assigning some of the bonuses (for example, a roster bonus) in year 1 as opposed to year 2 where it increases the hit going forward.
Keep in mind that the Giants were not being complementary to Eli this off-season. Eli should now be on notice that he has to step up his game. Eli has been the best QB that the Giants have ever had- Simms, Tittle, etc. included. However, the modern NFL is a game of "what have you done for me lately"- ask Tony Romo how it works.
There may be an angle to consider here. Webb is MUCH better in the short passing game- apparently struggles a little with the deep ball. However, any honest Giants fan must admit that in the past several years, Eli has struggled with the deep ball too- and has "lost something on his Fastball."
The Giants MIGHT be looking longer term- and IF they REALLY believe (I am reserving judgment until 2018-2019) that he can at least be a placeholder- they might be considering using the Seattle/Dallas model. Have a cheap QB, use the money to build the rest of the team, and have the QB manage the game. In Seattle and Dallas, the success of the QBs has been magnified by winning and those around them. By themselves, they are not stars- but having talent around them makes them look like stars.
The Giants might just be collecting players who can make a QB who might be little more than an above-average game manager look like a good QB. By doing it on the cheap, they COULD use the money saved to invest in depth and high end talent.
I'm NOT saying this is what WILL happen. However, I think that we at least have to consider that the Giants might be taking a chance to see if they can catch lightening in a bottle too.
One half dozen cb's were selected in the third round subsequent to the Jints taking Webb.
Webb reminds me of Nassib. Looks good holding a chart/laptop. But I don't think he is the Jint qb of the future. While his leadership abilities are well documented and his size is prototypical the first thing I look for is a weakness for him and that is his accuracy throwing the ball.
I know you can't teach size and he is the son of a coach and a gym rat and all of that good stuff but this guy will end up being a backup qb
Next year's draft will be full of quality qb's. This year's draft was full of quality cb's. We don't have a replacement for Trevin Wade now. How long before we lament his loss?
jeff57 : 4/29/2017 5:00 pm : link : reply
Gallman reminds me of Tyrone Wheatley.
If a late round RB becomes a solid starter for several years, I think we'd take it. Heck, a 10 year career with 5,000 yards and 47 TD's I'd sign up for today.