Initial thoughts on the draft?

IF Webb becomes the heir to Eli, then my opinion will change. The %'s are against it tho.

I love the first pick. I think Tomlinson will work out, but really wanted another edge rusher to spill JPP and Vernon and would have preferred a DT later in the draft. RB was so loaded you could have grabbed someone later in the draft that would contribute. Don't like the Webb pick. How did we not pickup a CB? Deepest position in the draft and we don't even grab 1 that we could have used.

Between Engram, Ellison, Marshall and the return of Vereen the Giants are going to look like a whole new offense. By midseason you knew what you were going to get. Not anymore.

Victor Cruz may not be on the team anymore but I think his impact can still be felt with respect to UDFAs.

I'm OK with Webb. Especially if he kicks Geno off the roster.
The OT from Pitt seems like great value and a versatile player who will help at some point.

The Giants addressed a lot of needs in this draft.

Draft:

Freak of nature "weapon" wherever lined up
Best DT run defender
A QB with athletic ability, every physical attribute you want in a QB, strong work ethic, time to develop behind an established starter
A RB who's drawn Demarco Murray/Devonta Freeman comparisons
A pass rushing DE who simply needs to rotate with the best DE tandem in football
An OT who looks like our next Diehl steal, possibly starting LT by 2018

Free Agency:

A WR exponential upgrade from Cruz and redzone threat
1 of the best blocking TE/Hback in the NFL - an extension of the OL
Mammoth former 1st rounder who likely starts week 1 on the right side

Me:

Thrilled. Excellent offseason.

He could wash out the way all the Giants' developmental QBs have done for the last 20 years. But the Giants are smart to start the succession plan now and give Webb time to develop.

Unless the light goes on for Geno Smith and his game goes to another level, they'll probably draft a QB next year, too.

A lot of people will complain that these are "wasted" picks. It doesn't work that way. It's hard to find a franchise QB. It's normal to try a bunch of guys. The Giants have the luxury of starting the process while their franchise QB is still in place, but the process isn't faster or simpler for that. It's still probably going to take years, and multiple starters at QB, before the Giants find another guy who can play at a high level for a long time and lead the team to championships. But who knows? Maybe they hit the jackpot with Webb.

In comment 13453961 averagejoe said:

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was last two picks and not the first two picks. I think the Engram pick was great. Would rather have picked Moton in round two. Don't like the Webb pick. You can get a clip board holder later in draft. The Giants needed to get stronger and deeper on OL and DL. This draft did not do this.

Maybe Webb is the new QB 3 years from now. He has a lot more talent than a "clip board holder".
This OL class sucks, Reese was wise to wait and look elsewhere.

Eli looks like crap in the pre season also. The only time Nassib palyed was against Minny in 2015 - looked pretty good in mop up duty. Jury is still out on him, may never get a chance.

In comment 13454052 81_Great_Dane said:

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He could wash out the way all the Giants' developmental QBs have done for the last 20 years. But the Giants are smart to start the succession plan now and give Webb time to develop. Unless the light goes on for Geno Smith and his game goes to another level, they'll probably draft a QB next year, too. A lot of people will complain that these are "wasted" picks. It doesn't work that way. It's hard to find a franchise QB. It's normal to try a bunch of guys. The Giants have the luxury of starting the process while their franchise QB is still in place, but the process isn't faster or simpler for that. It's still probably going to take years, and multiple starters at QB, before the Giants find another guy who can play at a high level for a long time and lead the team to championships. But who knows? Maybe they hit the jackpot with Webb.

when they were doing reviews of past drafts on espn, I was struck by how some teams, like Cleveland, spent high, even first round picks, on QBs for several years *in a row*. It really does point to how difficult it is to find one and how many bites of the apple are needed. It simply would not be good enough to just wait until Eli retired and pick one and say we are good to go. We pick Webb because there's potential there, and maybe we pick someone high next year and the year after. That's just how it goes if you want to be successful.

Rd 6 pick of Bisnowaty. I am hoping/trusting on EE in the 1st. The others mey.

Webb is a stud. We got a guy with a 3rd Rd pick that is just as good as the guys that KC, Houston, and Chicago mortgaged their future to get.

...the most important one of the 2017 Draft.

BY FAR!!!

' instant franchise QB

After that I don't see a lot to get all that excited about.

In comment 13454117 M.S. said:

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...the most important one of the 2017 Draft. BY FAR!!!

My feelings exactly

I remember the bitching and screaming when we got OBJ and listened to dyed in the wool Giants fans declaring him a wasted pick and the draft a bust. And JPP, and Pugh, yada, yada, yada

Some people aren't happy unless they are unhappy and then have the need to share their personal misery to try and make others as unhappy as themselves. Happens nearly every year

In comment 13454118 gtt350 said:

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' instant franchise QB

The book on Dak isn't written yet. He inherited the best front line in football and the best running back in football to hand the ball to. It takes time, but every team will find the Achilles heel in the Dallas team and then see how well the fans love their QB

Logical choices where they were taken.

It was an efficient draft.

Filled some depth needs at DE, RB, OL

Got a couple of eventual starters hopefully at TE and DT

The qb they picked with a third is a big question mark in my mind given that next year's draft will have a bunch of quality qb's.

Biggest question mark in my mind was why they didn't pick up a cb for depth to upgrade over Trevin Wade in a draft full of good cb's.

Dallas had an excellent draft imo and may well have picked up two starting cb's and a starting s in addition to a starting de.

Dallas still has no depth on their DL or in their secondary or on their OL

And yes, odd are that Davis Webb isn't the guy. We need to accept that as a very real possibility. It still doesn't mean the attempt was wrong or misguided.

Quarterback is the hardest position to fill in sports. Frankly, the only way I see them getting the next franchise QB in the building is to hit rock bottom, get a top 2 pick, and hope it happened in a year where there's a great prospect out there.

really excites me. Njoku is the TE I wanted until I checked out the tape on Draft Breakdown just before the draft. Engram is a great, not good, reciver. IMO he's the best receiver in the draft. Much smoother, more elusive and faster than Njoku and Williams, the top "big" receiver. He's going to be lights out. Jordan Reed with more speed and power. Future all-pro, and I have no doubt that he'll be able to block linebackers and DBs when asked to do so.

I think Tomlinson is going to be solid, and Webb has potential -- excellent arm talent -- certainly worth a 3d round pick.

I think Gallman is just a guy. He does not do much for me. Moss didn't look all that dynamic in the film I saw, but the staff thinks he's got talent, so we'll see.

Bisnowaty could be a super-sleeper. Apparently was very good in 2015 and slipped in 2016. If it was due to injury, as Dave Te suggests, he might be a future starter.

Overall, I'm very pleased.

In past years I've been generally enthusiastic only to become disappointed as the season(s) passed. Hopefully it will work the other way round this season, disappointment followed by wild enthusiasm.

I've gone 180 on drafting principles and believe because of its drafting practices this team's success is dependent upon hitting big every now and then with a talent, because most of those they draft wind up being either a meh or a washout. While Engram may be one of those guys, I don't see the wow-factor in anyone else.

Frankly, Reese has been doing a much better job in free agency rather than the draft in finding players that contribute SIGNIFICANTLY to the team's success.

in the draft. There are so many players out there and so little time to scout them. And it is so hard to compare one college team to another when they only play each other once, or not at all.

But evaluation of the 53 players on your own team that you watch every God-damn day is easy. I do blame the Giants when they hang onto worthless players for years instead of getting rid of them.

But, it is really hard to argue with their overall draft. They got potentially the best receiving TE in the draft, a very solid DT who should start, a RB who will get some carries, and an OL who graded out much higher than his 6th round spot. Even the DE is a decent pick. He will be a situational rusher.

I find it hard to argue with the last couple of drafts from Reese. I have definitely not been Reese's biggest fan. He may not have the approach to the draft that many of you want or like. But, her certainly hasn't reached these last couple. If anything, he has gotten excellent value, taking guys that grade out a round or two earlier. IT's hard to argue with that.

I blame them for both.

In comment 13454200 TC said:

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I've gone 180 on drafting principles and believe because of its drafting practices this team's success is dependent upon hitting big every now and then with a talent, because most of those they draft wind up being either a meh or a washout.

I think you'd find, if you look at the league as a whole, that this is kind of true for every team. Nobody's out there batting .750 on draft picks. Not even the Patriots.

In comment 13454211 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 13454200 TC said: Quote: I've gone 180 on drafting principles and believe because of its drafting practices this team's success is dependent upon hitting big every now and then with a talent, because most of those they draft wind up being either a meh or a washout. I think you'd find, if you look at the league as a whole, that this is kind of true for every team. Nobody's out there batting .750 on draft picks. Not even the Patriots.

I'll develop my reasoning on a different approach to drafting in the future, but you're absolutely right. And that's why the draft needs to be approached differently than it largely is.

with some of the picks I'm iffy about. I feel like some of the most vocal critics are the jammy wearer variety, who were pissed last year that Coughlin got fired, and now up in arms that Eli has a replacement.

but i'm really struck by the bitching on this site over taking the 3rd round qb.

Third round picks are far from sure things at any position, and rarely contribute immediately in any significant way.

Qbs are rare diamonds in the football world, and if this works, we'll have one ready to go when Eli hangs them up and won't miss a beat. Any team would kill for that opportunity, and we have that chance.

Is it a sure thing Webb will be that guy? Of course not, but honestly every single team that drafts a qb, whether it's in round one or round 7, worries about whether it was a wise investment. You have to take chances to grab such a valuable position

You don't remember people calling Washington morons for drafting Cousins when they had already taken Griffin? You honestly think they didn't have any other positional needs when they did that? They did it because it's the smart thing to do, and it's paid off huge for them.

If Davis pays off huge, you will look back at this draft as the best thing that ever happened to this organization. If he doesn't, you're missing out on the chance to have who, Jay Bromley? Damonte Moore? Jayron Hosley? Jerrell Jernigan? I mean for god's sake

a bit risky but should pan out. Doesn't matter what QB the Giants get if the Oline is not there, no one succeeds. The Oline is the big question mark right now. I think the Giants have alot of weapons on offense now but if the Oline can't hold up, what good is it all? Seems to me Reese tries to cover up the teams weaknesses he cant seem to fix. He probably went into the off-season and the draft knowing if he cant get players to fix the oline, get more offensive weapons. Same with the LB position. Lets hope his strategy works..

In comment 13454006 The_Boss said:

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IF Webb becomes the heir to Eli, then my opinion will change. The %'s are against it tho.

You could say the same thing for any of the qb picks this year.

than the other posters here.

I understand the talent, but there's still only one football and I wonder if he's not a redundancy with Vereen coming back and with Marshall replacing the limited Victor Cruz.
And, all the spin notwithstanding, he's simply not a traditional blocking TE so he's not going to help the running game.
How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker.
The list of failed tweeners is a long one - on both sides of the ball. This guy is not an H back, he's not a TE and he's not a WR. None of which precludes success, but I just wonder how many receivers a team that couldn't run the ball needs.

In comment 13454367 grizz299 said:

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How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker.

Our run game is *arguably* weaker with one of the best blocking WR in the game (Marshall), a TE who can actually block (Ellison), hope for continued development in Hart/Flowers, and the jettisoning of a slow-footed back in Jennings who repeatedly missed holes yet we insisted on forcing carries to?

If the basis for whining about the draft is that we didn't address the ol... it's just pointless.
Ol did not grade out in the first round-
Tomlinson had a first round grade for the team and addressed a team need.
People were crying for Asiata who apparently the whole NFL thought was a 5th round at best guy.
Somehow a bunch of 3rd round running backs are sure things but our rb choice a round later is a back up at best.

The giants ol next year will be determined by health.
If Pugh and richburg are healthy- the line will be better- the te blocking is better- wr blocking is better-
The threat in the passing game is more diversified which immediately makes blocking better-

If we were passing on legit ol options- fine- simply not the case

And the giants really like Webb- so he is not viewed as a hope pick- they value him highly- and the third round is always a crap shoot so to get a qb they grade high there is not bad.

Engram has the potential to be a stud and Tomlinson a starter- even if nobody else contributes that would make the draft successful

Engram wasn't used well in college. He'll be a revelation in the nfl. Gallman in the 4th fills a team need. I like his football intelligence, the way I like Perkins in that respect. We didn't get the left tackle we needed in free agency or the draft, but filled a lot of other needs on offense and held a good defense together.

pretty much my thoughts exactly. 2-3 impact guys from any draft is successful with the hopes of the later rounds 1 or 2 guys panning out would be a dream draft. Good stuff all around.

In comment 13454400 hitdog42 said:

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If the basis for whining about the draft is that we didn't address the ol... it's just pointless. Ol did not grade out in the first round- Tomlinson had a first round grade for the team and addressed a team need. People were crying for Asiata who apparently the whole NFL thought was a 5th round at best guy. Somehow a bunch of 3rd round running backs are sure things but our rb choice a round later is a back up at best. The giants ol next year will be determined by health. If Pugh and richburg are healthy- the line will be better- the te blocking is better- wr blocking is better- The threat in the passing game is more diversified which immediately makes blocking better- If we were passing on legit ol options- fine- simply not the case And the giants really like Webb- so he is not viewed as a hope pick- they value him highly- and the third round is always a crap shoot so to get a qb they grade high there is not bad. Engram has the potential to be a stud and Tomlinson a starter- even if nobody else contributes that would make the draft successful

I think any QB that is not a consensus top 10 pick is a hope pick. There probably is no other position than QB that is more of a crap shoot. You have to admit that there is a lot of disagreement out there about Webb. It comes down to whether you trust your talent evaluators.

Another good, solid draft. Annoyed me that we had to spend another 2 on a DT, but we did to keep the D intact.

In comment 13454367 grizz299 said:

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than the other posters here. I understand the talent, but there's still only one football and I wonder if he's not a redundancy with Vereen coming back and with Marshall replacing the limited Victor Cruz. And, all the spin notwithstanding, he's simply not a traditional blocking TE so he's not going to help the running game. How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker. The list of failed tweeners is a long one - on both sides of the ball. This guy is not an H back, he's not a TE and he's not a WR. None of which precludes success, but I just wonder how many receivers a team that couldn't run the ball needs.

Football is about mixing and matching and having answers to what the other team is doing. Nothing wrong with taking what is essence a big wide receiver and an heir apparent to Marshall who may or may not be at the end of his rope.

Engram is not, as many here are enthusiastically embracing, a tight end, and he will get beat up if he is playing inside against people that have 50+ lbs on him. He will be a slot guy, an h-back, and split out wide. Nothing wrong with that; he will have his uses.

In comment 13454375 regulator said:

Quote:

In comment 13454367 grizz299 said: Quote: How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker. Our run game is *arguably* weaker with one of the best blocking WR in the game (Marshall), a TE who can actually block (Ellison), hope for continued development in Hart/Flowers, and the jettisoning of a slow-footed back in Jennings who repeatedly missed holes yet we insisted on forcing carries to?

I think that the drafting of Gallman is not geting the attention it deserves because people are not familiar enough with him. While Clemson was a powerhouse- mainly due to Watson- their OL was not much to write home about either. Gallman is a back who can elude and make quick cuts and decisions. Perkins fits that bill too-

Gallman also learned to be an excellent pass blocker- which gives the Giants options to keep a RB on the field for pass plays other than Vereen.

The Giants appear to be adapting to a limited OL. With a Dallas-type OL, you can ground and pound with any RB. With a more limited OL, you go for shifty runners who get yardage by making people miss and once in a while- and getting to the hole fast rather than putting their shoulder down and running into someone.

The ability to run the ball makes a defense more honest- and would benefit the Giants.

a game changer.

to the one we felt we faced last year at this time.

A great ODB, as far as we knew a resurgent Cruz, a quality new slot wr in Shepard, a neat new RB in perkins. We felt many ways to move the ball,

- but were worried about line play!

Now, even more tools, a new TE (Ellison) who blocks well may be the most important piece of the entire offseason.

A potentially great slot wr/hback (E Engram) ...

and yet we are still right on the edge - its not all that clear exactly how them scheme adjust around last years abysmal....abysmal... run game with 6......that's 6....rushing TDs on the YEAR.

Can it be fixed -schematically- with the players we do have? I believe so, yes...

but it remains to be seen how exactly they choose to do it.

Maybe that speaks to our defense, I don't know. It I look at guys like Witten, and Gronk and Reed and a whole bunch more who always seem to bail the opposing team out on third and long and I think, "why can't we do that?" I don't know if all those guys are great blockers, but I know some aren't. But, having guys like that, blockers or not, would be huge for us.

are like 6,7,8...6 per YEAR is simply abysmal.

we could not run the ball, and so Manning got hit and sacked a shit-ton.

That should be the measure. Its very simple.

From my seat of not knowing who anyone is...but the choices seem good.

For some reason, I had a craving for Gonzalez though and would have opted for him at 5 or 6 or maybe even 4 over our choices. Something about picking the best at a position. Not to mention that shut down feeling you get when money comes off the bench with the game on the line.

Was like taking Osi over the kid from Louisville and JPP over the kid from Georgia Tech, and it is just like when we took JPP and Odell. Game changer.

has adapted his draft philosophy based on previous poor results. The last few drafts he has gone with proven guys from big time programs playing in the big time conferences. The hit rates on these guys are much higher. You don't always have to hit home runs but you need to assemble a bunch of good solid players. On the TE the only bad thing you can say is he is not and probably never will be a good inline blocker. The days of TC's system of pound and throw on play action are over. McAdoo runs more of a spread one back system, Winning one on one receiving matchups is key. Engram is actually a better fit for this offense than Howard. The FA TE from Minn is the guy who will be used in power sets but in this offense we will not be in those sets very often.

Loved the Tomlinson pick. Everything on D started last year with completely shutting down the run. Tomlinson allows us to keep that in place. Webb is great value with high upside. I agree with the poster who said he has as much of a chance to be a good QB in this league as the three guys who were traded for and we get it at a much better price.

Gallman isn't sexy but neither was Bradshaw and there are lots of similarities to their games. Hard nose runner lacking only home run speed. Home run speed is greatly overrated in the NFL where every DB runs a 4.5 or better. He runs real hard, can pass pro and can catch and I think people will really come around on this guy.

Bistowany was real good value at that point in the draft. Hopefully we get a little bit of the Justin Tuck syndrome here. Good player playing injured at end of year and while testing so you get a good player later than you should have based on talent alone.

BillT said:

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They draft their priorities, not needs, and stick with their board. If it leads them to a QB in the third, then it does. No apologies.

Great post. That's the story, right there. Everything else is blah, blah, blah...

Moss was a mild surprise because of the off-field stuff, but he seems to have done a full 180 in his life. If anything, he might irritate his episodes by being too clean. Zeal of the convert, and all that.

Just when you think auto-correct can't get any weirder.

according to picks made it could have been:
1 Robinson, Cam OT 6'6" 322 Alabama,
2 Cunningham, Zach LB 6'3" 234 Vanderbilt ,
3 Foreman, D'Onta RB 6'0" 233 Texas ,
4 Butt, Jake TE 6'5" 246 Michigan ,
5 Moss, Avery DE 6'3" 264 Youngstown St. ,
6 Tu'ikolovatu, Stevie NT 6'1" 331 USC ,
7 Johnson, Jadar S 6'0" 206 Clemson

Happy to see Jadar Johnson now signed as UDFA

Agree. That could of been a good possibility, but unfortunately it did not happen so now we can only hope Reese draft gamble pans out.