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Initial thoughts on the draft?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/29/2017 8:12 pm
I LOVED the Engram pick. He is going to be a beast.

My most questionable pick was Webb. It's pretty apparent he's going to be Eli's successor. I saw a ton of him in college and I'm mixed. He's got a huge arm, but his accuracy worries me.

What say you?
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I don't love the class, but understand the thought process  
David in LA : 4/30/2017 12:53 am : link
with some of the picks I'm iffy about. I feel like some of the most vocal critics are the jammy wearer variety, who were pissed last year that Coughlin got fired, and now up in arms that Eli has a replacement.
we of course can't judge it for quite a while  
SirYesSir : 4/30/2017 1:02 am : link
but i'm really struck by the bitching on this site over taking the 3rd round qb.

Third round picks are far from sure things at any position, and rarely contribute immediately in any significant way.

Qbs are rare diamonds in the football world, and if this works, we'll have one ready to go when Eli hangs them up and won't miss a beat. Any team would kill for that opportunity, and we have that chance.

Is it a sure thing Webb will be that guy? Of course not, but honestly every single team that drafts a qb, whether it's in round one or round 7, worries about whether it was a wise investment. You have to take chances to grab such a valuable position

You don't remember people calling Washington morons for drafting Cousins when they had already taken Griffin? You honestly think they didn't have any other positional needs when they did that? They did it because it's the smart thing to do, and it's paid off huge for them.

If Davis pays off huge, you will look back at this draft as the best thing that ever happened to this organization. If he doesn't, you're missing out on the chance to have who, Jay Bromley? Damonte Moore? Jayron Hosley? Jerrell Jernigan? I mean for god's sake
1st two picks are good,  
prdave73 : 4/30/2017 1:33 am : link
a bit risky but should pan out. Doesn't matter what QB the Giants get if the Oline is not there, no one succeeds. The Oline is the big question mark right now. I think the Giants have alot of weapons on offense now but if the Oline can't hold up, what good is it all? Seems to me Reese tries to cover up the teams weaknesses he cant seem to fix. He probably went into the off-season and the draft knowing if he cant get players to fix the oline, get more offensive weapons. Same with the LB position. Lets hope his strategy works..
RE: Not a fan of the 2017 class  
ErichBarnes102 : 4/30/2017 8:33 am : link
In comment 13454006 The_Boss said:
Quote:
IF Webb becomes the heir to Eli, then my opinion will change. The %'s are against it tho.

You could say the same thing for any of the qb picks this year.
Less enthusiastic about Engram  
grizz299 : 4/30/2017 8:44 am : link
than the other posters here.

I understand the talent, but there's still only one football and I wonder if he's not a redundancy with Vereen coming back and with Marshall replacing the limited Victor Cruz.
And, all the spin notwithstanding, he's simply not a traditional blocking TE so he's not going to help the running game.
How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker.
The list of failed tweeners is a long one - on both sides of the ball. This guy is not an H back, he's not a TE and he's not a WR. None of which precludes success, but I just wonder how many receivers a team that couldn't run the ball needs.
RE: Less enthusiastic about Engram  
regulator : 4/30/2017 8:55 am : link
In comment 13454367 grizz299 said:
Quote:

How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker.


Our run game is *arguably* weaker with one of the best blocking WR in the game (Marshall), a TE who can actually block (Ellison), hope for continued development in Hart/Flowers, and the jettisoning of a slow-footed back in Jennings who repeatedly missed holes yet we insisted on forcing carries to?
It was a terrible ol draft  
hitdog42 : 4/30/2017 9:13 am : link
If the basis for whining about the draft is that we didn't address the ol... it's just pointless.
Ol did not grade out in the first round-
Tomlinson had a first round grade for the team and addressed a team need.
People were crying for Asiata who apparently the whole NFL thought was a 5th round at best guy.
Somehow a bunch of 3rd round running backs are sure things but our rb choice a round later is a back up at best.

The giants ol next year will be determined by health.
If Pugh and richburg are healthy- the line will be better- the te blocking is better- wr blocking is better-
The threat in the passing game is more diversified which immediately makes blocking better-

If we were passing on legit ol options- fine- simply not the case

And the giants really like Webb- so he is not viewed as a hope pick- they value him highly- and the third round is always a crap shoot so to get a qb they grade high there is not bad.

Engram has the potential to be a stud and Tomlinson a starter- even if nobody else contributes that would make the draft successful
It was an ok draft. We got two starters in the first two rounds.  
Ira : 4/30/2017 9:22 am : link
Engram wasn't used well in college. He'll be a revelation in the nfl. Gallman in the 4th fills a team need. I like his football intelligence, the way I like Perkins in that respect. We didn't get the left tackle we needed in free agency or the draft, but filled a lot of other needs on offense and held a good defense together.
hitdog  
ryanmkeane : 4/30/2017 9:52 am : link
pretty much my thoughts exactly. 2-3 impact guys from any draft is successful with the hopes of the later rounds 1 or 2 guys panning out would be a dream draft. Good stuff all around.
RE: It was a terrible ol draft  
Reb8thVA : 4/30/2017 9:54 am : link
In comment 13454400 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
If the basis for whining about the draft is that we didn't address the ol... it's just pointless.
Ol did not grade out in the first round-
Tomlinson had a first round grade for the team and addressed a team need.
People were crying for Asiata who apparently the whole NFL thought was a 5th round at best guy.
Somehow a bunch of 3rd round running backs are sure things but our rb choice a round later is a back up at best.

The giants ol next year will be determined by health.
If Pugh and richburg are healthy- the line will be better- the te blocking is better- wr blocking is better-
The threat in the passing game is more diversified which immediately makes blocking better-

If we were passing on legit ol options- fine- simply not the case

And the giants really like Webb- so he is not viewed as a hope pick- they value him highly- and the third round is always a crap shoot so to get a qb they grade high there is not bad.

Engram has the potential to be a stud and Tomlinson a starter- even if nobody else contributes that would make the draft successful


I think any QB that is not a consensus top 10 pick is a hope pick. There probably is no other position than QB that is more of a crap shoot. You have to admit that there is a lot of disagreement out there about Webb. It comes down to whether you trust your talent evaluators.
I thought it was  
Phil in LA : 4/30/2017 10:00 am : link
Another good, solid draft. Annoyed me that we had to spend another 2 on a DT, but we did to keep the D intact.
RE: Less enthusiastic about Engram  
HomerJones45 : 4/30/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13454367 grizz299 said:
Quote:
than the other posters here.

I understand the talent, but there's still only one football and I wonder if he's not a redundancy with Vereen coming back and with Marshall replacing the limited Victor Cruz.
And, all the spin notwithstanding, he's simply not a traditional blocking TE so he's not going to help the running game.
How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker.
The list of failed tweeners is a long one - on both sides of the ball. This guy is not an H back, he's not a TE and he's not a WR. None of which precludes success, but I just wonder how many receivers a team that couldn't run the ball needs.
Football is about mixing and matching and having answers to what the other team is doing. Nothing wrong with taking what is essence a big wide receiver and an heir apparent to Marshall who may or may not be at the end of his rope.

Engram is not, as many here are enthusiastically embracing, a tight end, and he will get beat up if he is playing inside against people that have 50+ lbs on him. He will be a slot guy, an h-back, and split out wide. Nothing wrong with that; he will have his uses.
RE: RE: Less enthusiastic about Engram  
rich in DC : 4/30/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13454375 regulator said:
Quote:
In comment 13454367 grizz299 said:


Quote:



How are they going to utilitize Shepard, Vereen, OBJ, Marshall and Engram? Can you play them at the same time? Cleveland killed us with four in the box and we couldn't run them out of it. Now, arguably, the run game is weaker.



Our run game is *arguably* weaker with one of the best blocking WR in the game (Marshall), a TE who can actually block (Ellison), hope for continued development in Hart/Flowers, and the jettisoning of a slow-footed back in Jennings who repeatedly missed holes yet we insisted on forcing carries to?


I think that the drafting of Gallman is not geting the attention it deserves because people are not familiar enough with him. While Clemson was a powerhouse- mainly due to Watson- their OL was not much to write home about either. Gallman is a back who can elude and make quick cuts and decisions. Perkins fits that bill too-

Gallman also learned to be an excellent pass blocker- which gives the Giants options to keep a RB on the field for pass plays other than Vereen.

The Giants appear to be adapting to a limited OL. With a Dallas-type OL, you can ground and pound with any RB. With a more limited OL, you go for shifty runners who get yardage by making people miss and once in a while- and getting to the hole fast rather than putting their shoulder down and running into someone.

The ability to run the ball makes a defense more honest- and would benefit the Giants.
Engram's gonna be  
Phil in LA : 4/30/2017 11:00 am : link
a game changer.
its a very similar puzzle on Offense  
idiotsavant : 4/30/2017 11:07 am : link
to the one we felt we faced last year at this time.

A great ODB, as far as we knew a resurgent Cruz, a quality new slot wr in Shepard, a neat new RB in perkins. We felt many ways to move the ball,

- but were worried about line play!

Now, even more tools, a new TE (Ellison) who blocks well may be the most important piece of the entire offseason.

A potentially great slot wr/hback (E Engram) ...

and yet we are still right on the edge - its not all that clear exactly how them scheme adjust around last years abysmal....abysmal... run game with 6......that's 6....rushing TDs on the YEAR.

Can it be fixed -schematically- with the players we do have? I believe so, yes...

but it remains to be seen how exactly they choose to do it.
We got killed by a bunch of TE's over the years  
Bill L : 4/30/2017 11:07 am : link
Maybe that speaks to our defense, I don't know. It I look at guys like Witten, and Gronk and Reed and a whole bunch more who always seem to bail the opposing team out on third and long and I think, "why can't we do that?" I don't know if all those guys are great blockers, but I know some aren't. But, having guys like that, blockers or not, would be huge for us.
I mean top rushing TDs per GAME  
idiotsavant : 4/30/2017 11:09 am : link
are like 6,7,8...6 per YEAR is simply abysmal.

I mean, was it Green Bay post season?  
idiotsavant : 4/30/2017 11:12 am : link
we could not run the ball, and so Manning got hit and sacked a shit-ton.

That should be the measure. Its very simple.
I liked the draft  
Bill L : 4/30/2017 11:14 am : link
From my seat of not knowing who anyone is...but the choices seem good.

For some reason, I had a craving for Gonzalez though and would have opted for him at 5 or 6 or maybe even 4 over our choices. Something about picking the best at a position. Not to mention that shut down feeling you get when money comes off the bench with the game on the line.
Taking Engram over the kid from Miami  
Phil in LA : 4/30/2017 11:44 am : link
Was like taking Osi over the kid from Louisville and JPP over the kid from Georgia Tech, and it is just like when we took JPP and Odell. Game changer.
Really liked the draft. I commend Reese because like TC once did he  
Chris L. : 4/30/2017 11:51 am : link
has adapted his draft philosophy based on previous poor results. The last few drafts he has gone with proven guys from big time programs playing in the big time conferences. The hit rates on these guys are much higher. You don't always have to hit home runs but you need to assemble a bunch of good solid players. On the TE the only bad thing you can say is he is not and probably never will be a good inline blocker. The days of TC's system of pound and throw on play action are over. McAdoo runs more of a spread one back system, Winning one on one receiving matchups is key. Engram is actually a better fit for this offense than Howard. The FA TE from Minn is the guy who will be used in power sets but in this offense we will not be in those sets very often.

Loved the Tomlinson pick. Everything on D started last year with completely shutting down the run. Tomlinson allows us to keep that in place. Webb is great value with high upside. I agree with the poster who said he has as much of a chance to be a good QB in this league as the three guys who were traded for and we get it at a much better price.

Gallman isn't sexy but neither was Bradshaw and there are lots of similarities to their games. Hard nose runner lacking only home run speed. Home run speed is greatly overrated in the NFL where every DB runs a 4.5 or better. He runs real hard, can pass pro and can catch and I think people will really come around on this guy.

Bistowany was real good value at that point in the draft. Hopefully we get a little bit of the Justin Tuck syndrome here. Good player playing injured at end of year and while testing so you get a good player later than you should have based on talent alone.
RE: It's a typical Giants draft  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/30/2017 11:56 am : link
BillT said:
Quote:
They draft their priorities, not needs, and stick with their board. If it leads them to a QB in the third, then it does. No apologies.
Great post. That's the story, right there. Everything else is blah, blah, blah...

Moss was a mild surprise because of the off-field stuff, but he seems to have done a full 180 in his life. If anything, he might irritate his episodes by being too clean. Zeal of the convert, and all that.

Episodes s/b teammates  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/30/2017 11:57 am : link
Just when you think auto-correct can't get any weirder.
I would have picked differently  
FGiant : 4/30/2017 12:13 pm : link
according to picks made it could have been:
1 Robinson, Cam OT 6'6" 322 Alabama,
2 Cunningham, Zach LB 6'3" 234 Vanderbilt ,
3 Foreman, D'Onta RB 6'0" 233 Texas ,
4 Butt, Jake TE 6'5" 246 Michigan ,
5 Moss, Avery DE 6'3" 264 Youngstown St. ,
6 Tu'ikolovatu, Stevie NT 6'1" 331 USC ,
7 Johnson, Jadar S 6'0" 206 Clemson

Happy to see Jadar Johnson now signed as UDFA
FGiant,  
prdave73 : 4/30/2017 12:40 pm : link
Agree. That could of been a good possibility, but unfortunately it did not happen so now we can only hope Reese draft gamble pans out.
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