Reese (OT): Expect these guys to make a significant jump ...

especially since he battled an injury his first year.

Mac also made a comment about Year 2 with the OL coach.
We'll see, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

so it makes sense. I thought he improved down the stretch last year. Hart showed promise. I'd really like to see Hart nail down the RT spot and Fluker play RG.

Upgrade in play this co.ing season by ol and flowers.

God forbid they are a hindrance to offense again

what else would we expect him to say, given the underperformance and his penchant to hang on to failed picks too long (Carl Banks has said this numerous times)? I'm not saying Flowers, or Hart, should be cut necessarily--and it would be extraordinary for most any team to cut a #9 overall in his 3rd season--but the "expectation" that they will play significantly better smacks more of hope than anything concrete we've seen on the field. Another hope: maybe some of the new competition in camp lights a fire or that they show they can be more effective. So, I agree, Trainmaster, caution is the word and may the Lord protect Eli because the incumbent OL is a dicey safety net at best.

Usually, it has been in Year Two. Factoring in their age and the technical complexity of the position, significant improvement from Hart and Flowers is a possibility. His point about them being young enough to have been in this year's draft class is undeniable. Whether it matters, we'll just have to wait and see.

of the OL, and how poorly it was addressed this off-season, to say anything else?

that OL rookies were expected to sit for a few season in order to properly learn the position and crack the starting lineup. Obviously with salary cap and time things have changed but that doesn't mean that with some players it still doesn't take a few seasons for it to click and the game to come to him. Flowers is still very young.

In comment 13457505 steve in ky said:

Quote:

that OL rookies were expected to sit for a few season in order to properly learn the position and crack the starting lineup. Obviously with salary cap and time things have changed but that doesn't mean that with some players it still doesn't take a few seasons for it to click and the game to come to him. Flowers is still very young.

Agree, they either sat or learned OTJ at one of the OG positions.

Ellison, EE and Marshal will enable that, the new RB (forget the kids name) long strides get to edge, hit someone hard, occasionally catch. Play action off outside zone.

Outside Zone, let the tackles smash someone from an angle, tee off on DLers and LBs, instead of the other way 'round.

Optimistic if they do this, for the mojo of the tackles, whomever they start!

In comment 13457504 Beer Man said:

Quote:

of the OL, and how poorly it was addressed this off-season, to say anything else?

It wasn't "poorly addressed". He chose not to overpay for aging vets or reach for mediocre prospects. This roster is pretty much loaded everywhere else and Reese has had an excellent offseason.

is going to make this OL look a lot better, as will Perkins replacing Jennings

and plant Hart on the bench.

Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly.

In comment 13457522 annexOPR said:

Quote:

is going to make this OL look a lot better, as will Perkins replacing Jennings

Agree, Perkins showed last year to be one of those backs with great vision and cutting ability, and can consequently make yardage in situations where other backs might otherwise be stopped.

It's probably not reasonable to expect it.

In comment 13457523 JonC said:

Quote:

and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly.

Flowers Pugh Richburg Jerry Fluker week 1 OL?

In comment 13457527 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

It's probably not reasonable to expect it.

even a slight improvement will do wonders for sustaining drives ... all the 3 and outs last year drove me nuts

In comment 13457497 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:

what else would we expect him to say, given the underperformance and his penchant to hang on to failed picks too long (Carl Banks has said this numerous times)? I'm not saying Flowers, or Hart, should be cut necessarily--and it would be extraordinary for most any team to cut a #9 overall in his 3rd season--but the "expectation" that they will play significantly better smacks more of hope than anything concrete we've seen on the field. .

It's a hope for us as fans.
For Reese and Co they expect these guys to do their jobs and continue to develop as players.
With Flowers the real question is this : are his issues will or skill?
I think more than anything the effort is their. His work ethic hasn't been questioned and he's nasty like you want an LT to be. So if it's skill,that can be coached and worked on.

In comment 13457531 annexOPR said:

Quote:

In comment 13457523 JonC said: Quote: and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly. Flowers Pugh Richburg Jerry Fluker week 1 OL?

I'd rather see Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Hart. I want more beef inside next to Richburg.

JonC said:

Quote:

and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly.

Agreed. A "significant jump" in Hart's case would make him a solid swing tackle and extra blocker in short-yardage packages. The most likely starter at RG remains John Jerry.

could develop into a possible OG contributor ... like 2018

agreed, that's the maximum talent set imo.

outside zone type line?

Pugh/Hart/Richburg\Flowers\Biz

(also more interior beef while youth get reps)

Quote:

9. JESSAMEN DUNKER, Tennessee State (6-4 ½, 318, 5.00, 4-5): Began career at Florida, had legal troubles and was suspended, and transferred to the FCS level at Tennessee State. Started 43 of 46 games at both guards and LT. “Hasn’t matured,” said one scout. “Needs life skills. Doesn’t work at it. Needs reps.” Fastest of the leading guards. “He’s got starter’s physical ability,” said one scout. “It’s just going to depend on the mental part of it and how fast he can get acclimated and mature. He’s more athletic than a lot of starting tackles in the NFL. Let him fail at tackle before you move him inside. I don’t think he has the power to be an inside guy. Everything happens so much faster inside. You might put him in the zone scheme and he can second level (block) and things like that.” From Boynton Beach, Fla., where he played only two years of prep football.

Even 2018 might be ambitious. A year on the practice squad should tell the staff what they have there, if anything.

The "could've been in this draft class" talk is right up there with "we're in 1st place" from a couple years ago.

So in other words, sure, they stink, but cool - they could've been in this draft class! And they've "played" in the NFL too! So has Fluker, so has Newhouse, so did Markus Kuhn - if only that was the prerequisite to being an effective NFL player. Simply to have played.

I'm bullish on these guys improving but these comments are ridiculous.

Pugh/Hart/Richburg\Flowers\Fluker\Ellison

if you plan lots on inline blocking TE with EE as left slot

and that's a huge RG/RT combination zone left power right

In comment 13457523 JonC said:

Quote:

and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly.

How confident are we that Solari's record of success in KC and SF is going to carry over to NYG, Jon? Is there any consensus on how he did in year 1? Are the guys in the room picking up what he's putting down??

In comment 13457540 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

In comment 13457531 annexOPR said: Quote: In comment 13457523 JonC said: Quote: and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly. Flowers Pugh Richburg Jerry Fluker week 1 OL? I'd rather see Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Hart. I want more beef inside next to Richburg.

Fluker and Jerry are the exact same size. In fact on the roster page it says Jerry is one pound heavier.

Could dramatically change the landscape of the line. Even if at guard and allows someone like pugh to move to solidify one of the weaker links.

In comment 13457521 annexOPR said:

Quote:

In comment 13457504 Beer Man said: Quote: of the OL, and how poorly it was addressed this off-season, to say anything else? It wasn't "poorly addressed". He chose not to overpay for aging vets or reach for mediocre prospects. This roster is pretty much loaded everywhere else and Reese has had an excellent offseason.

Either way, it wasn't addressed. Call it what you want.

about guys who are still very young being able to improve year over year. Flowers is doing the right thing and working out at the Giants facilities this offseason. He is in his early 20's. It would be a surprise if he did not get improve. Flowers was not the reason the Giants went from a top rated offense in 15 to a struggling unit in 16.

This line is not going to be the Dallas line of last season...but they do not need to be.

but part of the running game woes were squarely on the RB quality. Now with Perkins, Gallman and Vereen - wgho was a HUGE loss last year, and Ellison as a blocking TE, the offense should be goo enough even if the OL performs about the same.

In regards to the OL, there were some injuries that factored in also _ Pugh, his backup, and his backup's backup. We also learned Richburg played with torn hand ligaments akll year. Maybe they'll be a little luckier this year.

I still think people over react to the OL to a degree. if a dominant OL was the be all, end all, how do you explain Dallas at 4-12 two years ago??? How many playoff games have they won with that Line???

In comment 13457568 aquidneck said:

Quote:

In comment 13457540 Victor in CT said: Fluker and Jerry are the exact same size. In fact on the roster page it says Jerry is one pound heavier.

You can't believe everything you read. I will bet Fluker easily out weighs Jerry. Hopefully we will see a picture of them standing next to each other at some point.

In comment 13457566 Racer said:

Quote:

In comment 13457523 JonC said: Quote: and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly. How confident are we that Solari's record of success in KC and SF is going to carry over to NYG, Jon? Is there any consensus on how he did in year 1? Are the guys in the room picking up what he's putting down??

Not a lot of answers that I'm aware of, but I believe Dave Te provided some insight in this respect, and it wasn't very good.

he's a huge dude.

do to improve when not w/ the team. Clearly, they are lifting, but are guys like Flowers/Fluker etc. doing position specific drills? agility drills?

I think John Jerry's offseason work (with LeCharles Bentley) last year paid dividends. I wonder if these other guys took the cue.

In comment 13457604 Pep22 said:

Quote:

I think John Jerry's offseason work (with LeCharles Bentley) last year paid dividends.

Could have fooled me, because Jerry was still terrible.

But at some point you have to trust your process, your coaches, and ultimately your players. Reese is still at that point. You go to war with the army you have. Well, this is what we have.

The imperative last year was to fix a historically bad defense. That mission was accomplished. You could argue that it was accomplished in part at the expense of upgrading the offensive line, and that's fine, but pointless. What's done is done.

This year, the opportunities to upgrade the offensive line were few and far between. The free agent options were ridiculously overpriced, and the draft prospects were less than stellar. The Giants did what they could to overhaul their woefully anemic offense with upgrades on the periphery, at TE, RB, and WR, and I'm sure they hope that those will lessen the blow of not adding any top-tier talent along the O-Line. We'll see.

and I'm sure someone already mentioned this, but this is year two under our OL coach, following the change in HC. This could be a reason for further development.

Also, their youth is another reason to expect continued development. To think that at 22 and 23 these players are done developing is ridiculous.

What Reese is doing here is obvious - he's inspiring fans because there has clearly been criticism about not addressing the OL enough. He may be correct, and as a fan I'm going to choose to buy in. The season is so much more fun if you have some optimism (imo).

The more I read about Chad Wheeler, the UDFA Tackle out of USC -- the more I'm intrigued by his long-term chances. He was a 4-year starter, all-PAC 12, 6' 7' and 310 lbs.

Reese said he checked out the off-field issues....just a little confrontation with the Po-Po is all. Reese spoke very highly of both the UDFA Tackles in the Francessa interview......Get 'em in the weight room and coach 'em up.

There will be some competition at both Tackle spots in camp.

(hey! been busy, eh?)
Seems to me that the big packages at LT going back to Flowers' and Fluker's years, along with Peat and others I don't remember, as a group, haven't fared all that well. GMs looking for max size and skill at the LT position, maybe not the right formula in today's NFL, maybe somewhat smaller, 280/300 lbs and more nimble in the feet. Then, again, Tyron Smith is ~ 320--and superbly talented.

RollBlue, Giants' fans would gladly settle for a less-than "dominant" OL; what we had in '16 and generally during the Reese reign is a badly underperforming OL, as in dead last in 16 in avg. run from scrimmage and a pass pro that the QB did not trust--that much was clear in his behavior in the pocket.

Pepe, I think we all were hoping JJ's LCBentley camp attendance would lead to an upgrade his play: it probably did, but it was hard to see the overall benefit.

a healthy Richburg (hand) is going to help tremendously as well.

I'm also expecting the other additions on offense to aid in the line play and, more importantly, give us some versatility in our play calling and personnel packages. We were a very predictable team last year.

All this should be enough to contend if our defense holds serve.

In comment 13457568 aquidneck said:

Quote:

In comment 13457540 Victor in CT said: Quote: In comment 13457531 annexOPR said: Quote: In comment 13457523 JonC said: Quote: and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly. Flowers Pugh Richburg Jerry Fluker week 1 OL? I'd rather see Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker-Hart. I want more beef inside next to Richburg. Fluker and Jerry are the exact same size. In fact on the roster page it says Jerry is one pound heavier.

no way, seller of that one. And even if they were, Jerry plays small.

Reggie Jackson said he was a "biscuit away from 330" at the time in 2009

The Giants are no longer operating the Gilbride offense. The OL does not have to block for 7 seconds. Eli will drop back and get rid of the ball quickly and look for yards after the catch for the big game. Second, as noted above, the running attack will improve with Ellison and Marshall blocking and no Jennings. Carl Banks said last year that Jennings left alot on the ground last year. You could see that the running attack picked up after Perkins started to get some carries.

Last, an offensive line will improve as they play together more which is one reason I think Reese did not jump at available options either in free agency or the draft unless they were clear value upgrades. I think he concluded that this group if they stay healthy will get better as they play together. Back in the SB days, we had 1 start on the line Snee, 1 pretty good MacKenzie, the rest were nothing special individually but played very well collectively. We don't have anyone as good as Snee but there is some talent on the current OL and with good health and another year of playing together and under Scolari, and the improvements mentioned above and the west coast offense, the OL could be adequate at a minimum and that's all they have to be.

.

Beatty doesn't get hurt, and Flowers is allowed to cut his teeth on the OL on the right side, and we bring him up ala Tyron Smith. Flowers was getting double reps at LT his rookie year, gutted it out on a high ankle sprain. I think the switch over to Solari hurt his development somewhat, having to learn the position all over again with a different teacher. Hoping year 2 under Solari shows us a much better ROI.

might in fact not be the OL. Fact. One can easily point to TE, RB and 2nd WR as bigger sore spots. Easily. Look at who was manning the 2nd and 3rd WR spots on this team in 2015. Those guys aren't viable starting WRs and Randle isn't even in the league anymore. Look at the TEs. Now look at the 2nd WR and all TEs from last year. Again, Cruz will be lucky to play again. And the TEs once again were dreadful. Look at last year's RB group before Perkins got his sea legs. Jennings--out of the NFL. Vereen was hurt. Darkwa is lucky to be on a roster.

Look at the UPGRADES the Giants have made from 2015 to now at WR, TE and RB. It's dramatically better.

The OL can now be the biggest problem with the offense and things will still be better here. The OL is at least stable and possesses continuity. Swap Newhouse for Fluker and let's cautiously call a slight upgrade. Flowers gets 10% better and maybe turns those 5-6 bad games in 2016 to 1-2 in 2017. Pugh and Richburg are rocks when healthy. Jerry can certainly be exposed but is average and reliable--plus his errs don't usually end with Eli getting hit.

We should be much better in 2017 on offense. People get so hung up on the OL but look at where this offense sits compared to 2013-2016. Forget the stats in 2014-15 that offense was overrated--but there were some legit tangibles to hold on to. The Giants just needed time to fix this team. Attrition killed them. They are on the way back. Very few sore spots on this team if any.

In comment 13457582 JonC said:

Quote:

In comment 13457566 Racer said: Quote: In comment 13457523 JonC said: Quote: and plant Hart on the bench. Flowers and Fluker are two prospects the Giants graded very highly in their respective drafts. Pray they step up quickly. How confident are we that Solari's record of success in KC and SF is going to carry over to NYG, Jon? Is there any consensus on how he did in year 1? Are the guys in the room picking up what he's putting down?? Not a lot of answers that I'm aware of, but I believe Dave Te provided some insight in this respect, and it wasn't very good.

Thanks - I just did my research and see the post you're referencing. Was traveling Sunday and must have missed a block of posts.

Too many people here do not give guys time to develop. If you don't see instant results you are ready to cut said player.


One year ago people were bashing Landon Collins.

As fans all are allowed to express their opinions however flawed the foundation of the premise of their argument may be. I think in many cases no visible change equates to abject futility and failure. Another contributing fact is that unless a falsely glorified surefire solution is added the fan base level of confidence remains meyered in a quagmire of futility.

Just take Shaun O'Hara, to him the Giants draft is a C+, why none of his perceived OL solutions were taken. Never mind that these perceived solutions were prospects, in other words projects!!

The Giants OL went through a philosophical change in 2016, a new OL coach Solari (a respected OL coach) new techniques to be mastered. Yet all we hear is that OL under performed and 22, 23 year old's need to be replaced. I think we need to step back hold the criticism and demonstrate tolerance, allowing for the development of the young talent that comprises the overwhelming majority of offensive linemen on the team. Allow Solari to implement his his vision and design for the cohesion of the OL. He has been very successful in the past why won't he be in the present.

What good does fan support serve if you do not allow for the work of development to take place and show faith in the process? The whole roster has been turned over from the last failing rosters of Coughlin's tenure, the OL is the last grouping to evolve, which makes sense since the OL needs the greatest cohesion to be successful. When we take into consideration the limit on practice, live scrimmages, training, and access to coaching, it stands to reason that developing a top tier OL may take the longest to perfect.

I do agree, the two kid tackles will be better, plus we added 4 guys who give me even more hope in Biz, Dunker, Chad, and Fluker. We have a good OL coach so I'm going to believe he coaches them up.

Yes, Ellison helps a lot too. It's all good fellows. If you need to worry about some position, worry about CB if one of our three go down.

Yes, development is part of the job of the players and coaches.

Except possibly for Jerry at RG because of age, Reese has a right to expect every other o-line position to be improved because of physical maturation, position experience and at RT a very great physical talent replacing a very marginal physical talent.

Flowers and Hart are still young, and young players improve. These guys see the players every day, let's see how it plays out. If the OL struggles again next year, it's Reese who will have to explain why.

In comment 13457754 djstat said:

Quote:

Too many people here do not give guys time to develop. If you don't see instant results you are ready to cut said player. One year ago people were bashing Landon Collins.

Bingo! I can still remember when people were bashing Amani Toomer, and then he blossomed into one of our studs for many years to come.

The mistake - and I said at the time that it would haunt us for a decade - was in bypassing Tunsil.

Hart needed time to get an NFL body. The fact that a 7th round pick gave even a reasonable imitation of an NFL starter in his 2nd year is a good sign.
Flowers has the size & athletic ability to be a good LT. I get that the technique issues from college were still a problem last year. But apparently it's not a matter of laziness or bad attitude. I really think the kid may have a learning disability or is just slower to learn than some. That means expecting continued improvement this year is not out of line at all. If it clicks for him I'm really looking forward to the revenge he exacts from DEs who made him look bad his first two seasons.

is shameful. He's certainly struggled but he's a young LT. Most do struggle. I can take the criticism but when far too many so called experts REFUSE to allow for the belief that Flowers could improve, I turn them off or ignore them. What's worse, no one acknowledges the good from Flowers. That he has in fact played well for an entire game. Last year Flowers played well over the last 4-5 games save for Dallas. This is a fact. You wouldn't know it.

You will never convince me that some of the smartest pro sport observers or talkies don't suffer from a follow the herd mentality. Whether it's just human nature or laziness, I don't know, but there's no way these people are watching every game and formulating an educated opinion on every player. They don't follow every game so they just piggy back on the consensus and roll with it. Then they see a guy like Flowers struggle in the one game they did watch and perception becomes reality.

I'd be saying the same thing about any player, not just Flowers. Progression isn't always rapid or linear. But if you see SOME good play in a player and that player works hard, plays through injury and has talent, who the hell are we to say otherwise? Sometimes you're right and sometimes not but the Giants obviously see something in Flowers. Fucking deal with it already. There's ability in there.

In comment 13457496 micky said:

Quote:

Upgrade in play this co.ing season by ol and flowers. God forbid they are a hindrance to offense again

the OL wasnt the ONLY hindrance to the offense this past season. there were several times where simply NOBODY got open. we had an incedibly slow TE. cruz was dogshit on the outside and OBJ was double teamed. i mean you go from donnell to engram and cruz to marshall that is a MASSIVE improvement. teams would just play Nickel against up and leave two safeties over the top (one doubling OBJ). now we have a TE that can stretch the seam and an outside WR with serious height...the giants have created ALOT more mismatches and hopefully that means guys are getting open quicker. i agree the OL struggled at times, but it certainly wasnt an issue in the playoffs...

Jerry, we don't wan to hear this:

"Those guys could have been in this draft class."

This is from the link provided above, last line in his quote.
Look Jerry, you drafted Flowers at 20, and apparently Hart
was young as well. You knew they were young and raw,
we know that, but we don't want to hear they would have been drafted this year. It's almost a built-in excuse for them.
I say that much more about Flowers, than a 7th Rd. pick.
This O Line better produce this year, since you did little to
address it, hope you are right...
Otherwise, big time egg on your face!

With the additions made this off season (via FA, Draft), even if the OL is slightly better then last year, then this Offense will be lethal.

In comment 13457858 froggerjoe said:

Quote:

With the additions made this off season (via FA, Draft), even if the OL is slightly better then last year, then this Offense will be lethal.

.

Two real additions in Fluker and a 6th Rd. pick from Pitt.
John Jerry has been here 3 years already, and was re-signed.
Then there are the shmucks that weren't good enough to get
drafted, don't hold your breath with them.

think it's going to be a lot better.

As Reese noted, Flowers and Hart have another year of experience.
Richburg is healthy.
Jerry played better last year.
We added Fluker.

Bisnowaty is good depth, and one of the other rookie OL will hopefully show some promise. Jones also looked good when he was in for a few snaps.

Think Reese may be right on this.... I think the tackles are like 22 and 23 years old. They will continue to get stronger more experience and coached up..... I only see improvement.... I think our O line prob is blown out of proportion!

In comment 13457832 djm said:

Quote:

is shameful. He's certainly struggled but he's a young LT. Most do struggle. I can take the criticism but when far too many so called experts REFUSE to allow for the belief that Flowers could improve, I turn them off or ignore them. What's worse, no one acknowledges the good from Flowers. That he has in fact played well for an entire game. Last year Flowers played well over the last 4-5 games save for Dallas. This is a fact. You wouldn't know it. You will never convince me that some of the smartest pro sport observers or talkies don't suffer from a follow the herd mentality. Whether it's just human nature or laziness, I don't know, but there's no way these people are watching every game and formulating an educated opinion on every player. They don't follow every game so they just piggy back on the consensus and roll with it. Then they see a guy like Flowers struggle in the one game they did watch and perception becomes reality. I'd be saying the same thing about any player, not just Flowers. Progression isn't always rapid or linear. But if you see SOME good play in a player and that player works hard, plays through injury and has talent, who the hell are we to say otherwise? Sometimes you're right and sometimes not but the Giants obviously see something in Flowers. Fucking deal with it already. There's ability in there.

This 100%.

Not to mention:

1. Talking about OL play makes everyone sound like an expert. Who watches the OL when Beckham might be taking a slant to the house? It's easy to say the OL sucks when the offense is doing poorly and the OL is good when the offense does well. I doubt these talking heads are looking at the coach angles to see who missed a block on which plays.

2. His incident with Jordan in the locker room was a bad look for Flowers. He definitely sounds like a quiet guy who doesn't have any interest in giving sound bites. So his personality doesn't win him favors, especially when he pushes reporters in the locker room.

3. Jennings really hurt us last year (3.3 ypc). And Vereen, (4.8 ypc) being hurt, hurt us last year. Perkins (4.1 ypc) and Gallman should be a nice tandem with Vereen coming in as the third down and RZ back.

I expect the OL narrative to lose steam this coming season.

Flowers going to LT until this year. I think that factored into Reese's comments. He should be physically more mature now, have 2 years total and 1 in Solari's system under his belt. I can realistically see a BIG jump in his play and consistency this year. Trusting the techniques he is being taught is the key. If he fails its not because he doesn't have the athletic ability. More competition is a good thing too. If suddenly 2 or even 3 guys can play at LOT wouldn't that be something. An embarrassment of riches :)

Flukker steps up big time. Then in the off season you have the tough choice, do you resign him or Pugh? Probably won't be able to afford both not to mention Richburg will also be a FA. To further complicate matters what if Flowers doesn't improve? I suspect he will improve somewhat but if he doesn't? We might make it through the next season but the OL is far from stabilized. It's in constant flux. You can deal with one problem on the line but two or three at the same time is hard. They need to sit down and come up with a plan going forward. They got these different pieces who seem to play different styles that may or may not mesh well. We always say that familiarity and continuity improve line play. We don't have that

In comment 13457754 djstat said:

Quote:

Too many people here do not give guys time to develop. If you don't see instant results you are ready to cut said player. One year ago people were bashing Landon Collins.

Flowers has had two seasons, not one.

be looking to re-sign 3 or maybe 4 o-linemen. And if they don't re-sign them, they will have replace them.

Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Fluker will all be free agents and any BBIers who were unhappy with the line will be less happy to watch Reese try to rebuild the line on the cheap!

I understand the concern about the offensive line. But we really need to be patient.

The front office do know what they are doing. I remember the angst in 2007 after Petitgout left and we passed guys like Joe Staley and moved Diehl to LT. That worked out pretty well for us.

We should also remember this is now year 2 in Mike Solari's scheme, lets see how this unfolds. The younger guys are still developing and should continue to improve, they do have the physical tools. Many thought Pugh was a something bust through his first could of seasons.

We have a bunch of young guys with Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Hart, Fluker and Jones plus a solid vet in Jerry. I do like the upside of Bisnowaty, Wheeler and Dunker. That is 9 OL.

I wouldn't be surprised if we bring in a lower priced vet such as King Dunlap into the mix.

Let's just wait and see what we have.

when is draft choice play poorly? "we expect big improvement from these guys". Duh! No kidding. Why wouldn't you say you expect big improvements when you are trying to defend your logic of ignoring problem YET again.

In comment 13457607 Klaatu said:

Quote:

But at some point you have to trust your process, your coaches, and ultimately your players. Reese is still at that point. You go to war with the army you have. Well, this is what we have.

True but not so much the day after your opportunity to improve the Army you had.

and now we "expect" these guys to make a significant jump. Is it blind optimism, a challenge meant to light a fire or just pushing the problem to the coaches?

I still recall how comical it was watching our Tight Ends and Tackles try to seal the edge during 2016 pre-season loss to Buffalo, or have our Guards pull across the line and get lost finding their blocks during the second regular season vs Dallas. How long it will it take Flowers in the opener this year to poorly set his feet and do his patented lunge-forward at the defensive end charging easily around him...(over/under 6 plays).

Of course General Managers are limited to cap dollars and a few draft picks a year and are not able to address every problem on a team, but I simply ask...what are we doing?

In comment 13458615 nicky43 said:

Quote:

In comment 13457607 Klaatu said: Quote: But at some point you have to trust your process, your coaches, and ultimately your players. Reese is still at that point. You go to war with the army you have. Well, this is what we have. True but not so much the day after your opportunity to improve the Army you had.

As I wrote in the post you quoted:

Quote:

This year, the opportunities to upgrade the offensive line were few and far between. The free agent options were ridiculously overpriced, and the draft prospects were less than stellar. The Giants did what they could to overhaul their woefully anemic offense with upgrades on the periphery, at TE, RB, and WR, and I'm sure they hope that those will lessen the blow of not adding any top-tier talent along the O-Line. We'll see.

No single player in this draft was going to solve the Giants' O-Line problems, and you could argue that the lack of talent among their skill players hampered their offense more than their porous O-Line did. So Reese & Co. made a conscious decision to add an extremely dynamic TE to their offensive mix, along with a very good complementary RB, and that's after signing a big, productive WR and a good blocking TE in free agency. Engram and Ellison instead of Tye and Donnell, Gallman instead of Jennings, Marshall instead of Cruz. Upgrades on the periphery, as I wrote.

In comment 13458120 jeff57 said:

Quote:

In comment 13457754 djstat said: Quote: Too many people here do not give guys time to develop. If you don't see instant results you are ready to cut said player. One year ago people were bashing Landon Collins. Flowers has had two seasons, not one.

It's still among the hardest positions in any sport to fill. If you're going to cut bait on any player that isn't a hit within two years, you're going to end up with a lot of wasted high draft picks.

bolded text
italicized text
underlined text
strikethrough text
[font color="red"]hello[/font]

In comment 13463491 Trainmaster said:

Quote:

bolded text italicized text underlined text strikethrough text [font color="red"]hello[/font]

Four out of five ain't bad. It beats two out of three and they made a song about that....
Now don't be sad - ( New Window )

of the draft is to pick good players, and build a talent pool. There wasn't much value at OL this year. Forcing an early pick at OL would have been a poor managerial decision, but still half of you would have applauded that decision.

For that reason I can't take your criticisms of Reese seriously; it's glaringly obvious that many of you don't have a clue what the draft is for, or how a good GM approaches the draft. Thusly, your opinions on the matter hold little value.

If you feel the OL needed to be immediately addressed that should have been done in FA. The problem being the fact that average OL were paid like superstars this offseason. I can't blame them for not sinking that much cash, but a part of me still wishes they had.

start out there at LT in September.

Pulling for Bisnowaty to turn into a savior...