For those who say Engram can't block

In comment 13463827 HomerJones45 said:

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The NFL isn't Auburn. The DE's are going to have 50 lbs on him, the lbs will have 30 and he will barely have 10 pounds on the safeties. Finley, an undersized tight end at 247 lbs and a third round pick, was always hurt and never played a full season. He was finished at age 26 due to a bruised spinal cord. You don't want Engram blocking anyone but corners of you expect him to have any kind of career.

I'm terrified of all those 260+ pound LBs these days ... oh wait, it's 2017

injuries are a concern. They are a concern for every TE in this league. Gronk is huge and look what he has been through. Reed is more in line with Engram's size and he has been injured a lot. TE's and slot receivers take a pounding in the NFL.

''No worries. The Giant coaches will tear him down and then
Jimmy Googs : 7:20 am : link : reply

build him back up as a blocker.

Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform...''

Very Obviously, schematic changes need be in the works both with regards the run game and the pass game and especially with regards to the interplay between the two.

Its not 'your old Tom Caughlin vs Air Coryell and therefor who cares'. That's nonsense.


I will not be surprised to see both:

lots of EE TDs .......

AND legit NFL DEs or even DTs or even LBs throw his EEs ass right onto the ground once in a while .....as well.

At around 230 pounds. He missed some games here and there, but he was relatively durable.

Oh, and I watched Engram knock 253-pound Ryan Anderson (drafted by the Redskins) on his ass during the Senior Bowl practices. On the next play, he blew by Anderson for a touchdown.

not sure that's a legit NFL comp

list of D ends.

''Round 1: Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan: The Cowboys have obvious needs both along the defensive line and in their secondary. In the first round, they found a big-body defensive end

(6'6, 277) to pair with the young

6'7, 284-pound David Irving.

(welcome to the NFL EE, hope your feeling well, Mr. Eric Flowers, in week #1)


While Charlton didn't have eye-popping numbers (just 19 sacks over his four-year career), he had a monster performance in one of the biggest regular-season games in college football this past season, when he had nine tackles and 2.5 sacks against Ohio State. But those performances were too few and far between.

Still, Charlton is an athletic specimen and a height-weight-speed dream for NFL scouts, and he constitutes appropriate value in the tail end of the first round......
''

In comment 13463760 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13463681 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: build him back up as a blocker. Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform... Same way the defense was never going to improve because it sucked in 2014 and 2015 am I right? Great contributions by the way. Keep at it.

Vernon, Snacks, Jenkins, Robinson, and Apple all new. Collins was really the only home-grown on Defense that took his game up considerably.

but you know, those are just facts...

You draft him to create mismatches, to get out in space and make things happen, with or without the ball in his hands.

''
The single-back TE

This is the traditional use of the role and requires a player who can line up in an attached, in-line spot and block on the edge. This player is generally long (6'3" or better) and heavy (240+) enough to >>>>grapple with defensive ends. This is very challenging since the TE doesn't get any momentum or often even a favorable angle to help him out and because the defensive end is often one of the best athletes on the field at projecting explosive power in a short distance and time frame.

A really great single-back TE who can grapple with an end is

>>>>>>>>invaluable on zone schemes for allowing the offense to single-block a DE with him and thus allow the OL to double team the defensive tackles on tight zone:
(image)

Or he can help them to dominate the edge on >>>>>
wide zone by helping the >>tackle reach the end before advancing to take out the linebacker or safety that gets there first.
''

-----

I am -not- saying that EE 'need be this type' to be of use to our team.

However, lets not pretend that he -is- a lock to BE this type either, in the NFC East. That's just silly now.

If they wanted another one, they could have easily drafted one later on or signed one as a UDFA. Clearly, that's not what they were looking for.

but the OP is with regards to blocking, unspecified.

Certainly, the new kid can be of use on the team in a variety of capacities.

To be a good blocker is ludicrous. And if you think the Giants are going to keep Engram inline so he can take on DEs on a regular basis you're sadly mistaken.

In comment 13463900 Klaatu said:

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To be a good blocker is ludicrous. And if you think the Giants are going to keep Engram inline so he can take on DEs on a regular basis you're sadly mistaken.

Agree. Further to that, we have a handful of 6-5 320 pounders and they certainly aren't good blockers either.

Looking forward to seeing Engram kick ass at what he was drafted to do...

Safeties, 210. CBs, 193. These are the opponents that Engram is going to face as a blocker more often than not.

In comment 13463926 Klaatu said:

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Safeties, 210. CBs, 193. These are the opponents that Engram is going to face as a blocker more often than not.

I'm not sure these numbers include this year's draftees, but for argument's sake:

PHI: LBs, 235. Safeties, 199. CBs, 192.
WAS: LBs, 253. Safeties, 206. CBs, 199.

The TEs didn't improve bcsuse they are frickin terrible. You can only make chicken salad out of chicken shit for so long.

The d did improve. Facts. Thanks. Keep it up.

is limited.

I do see some posters parroting what they read on ESPN or CBS, and repeating it ad nauseum as if it were the gospel. What else is new? It's par for the course during draft season.

Keep him super quick and explosive. He's going to be a pass catcher. Not an inline blocker.

He'll be fine at 235lbs.

Pretty sure I read a McAdoo or Reese quote that Engram wasn't going to be blocking defensive lineman. Nor should he.

as a result of the OP not stating -which kind- of blocking he specified.

Constantly moving the goal posts as to the subject of the discussion (here, inline... or vs corners or what) does not make for a good conversation nor make anyone appear to have better contributions.

If you weed through all the posturing and juvenile needs to 'be right', >>>>we are all in agreement!

''The idea that you have to be some 6-6, 265-pound monster...
Klaatu : 12:41 pm : link : reply

To be a good blocker is ludicrous. And if you think the Giants are going to keep Engram inline so he can take on DEs on a regular basis you're sadly mistaken.''

And can't be covered except by a CB or star DB.

Line him up against a LB and you can just pass it to him (though you can run it, too).

Line him up against a cover DB and you can run to his spot (though you can pass it, too).

TE draft prospects, now famous and much faster.... 40 times from 2015!

MyCole Pruitt TE 4 Southern Illinois rSr 6-2 251 4.52
Will Tye TE 29 Stony Brook rSr 6-2 257 4.57
*O.J. Howard TE 3 Alabama Jr 6-6 242 4.59
C.J. Uzomah TE 12 Auburn Sr 6-6 262 4.62
*Evan Engram TE 4 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 227 4.64
Jerell Adams TE 8 South Carolina Sr 6-5 232 4.64
Wes Saxton TE 10 South Alabama Sr 6-3 248 4.64
Kennard Backman TE 28 UAB Sr 6-3 243 4.66
James O'Shaughnessy TE 14 Illinois State rSr 6-4 248 4.68

it seems that the issue has been knees and injuries, not aptitude.

He looks like a kid that could probably be a legit two function TE if he is actually healthy. Big If though.

its an insight, our Giants have all gotten bigger, a few got bigger and faster.

One wonders about injury risk, overall bone and cartilage base within which they are working.

One thing about Tye, the player is solidly put together.

MyCole Pruitt TE 4 Southern Illinois rSr 6-2 251 4.52
Will Tye TE 29 Stony Brook rSr 6-2 257 4.57
*O.J. Howard TE 3 Alabama Jr 6-6 242 4.59
C.J. Uzomah TE 12 Auburn Sr 6-6 262 4.62

>>*Evan Engram TE 4 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 227 4.64

>>Jerell Adams TE 8 South Carolina Sr 6-5 232 4.64

Wes Saxton TE 10 South Alabama Sr 6-3 248 4.64
Kennard Backman TE 28 UAB Sr 6-3 243 4.66
James O'Shaughnessy TE 14 Illinois State rSr 6-4 248 4.68

how could you not love this pick?

approach to this discussion.

I am also excited about the Engram kid and what he can do!

But the subjects of types of blocking, types of players.

A new subject: if you look at how skinny and slow the kid EE was in 2015, one wonders if he will hold up (remain uninjured) and / or if he has maxed out size wise, and what that means for situational roles going forward.

Its the seemingly crazy "JR has a bias towards narrow kids" from pre-draft. It holds over time.

as a receiver. He can also block linebackers and defensive backs. But it would also be an asset if he could block defensive ends on running plays. Having one tight end like him and another like Ellison is much more limiting than having a two way tight end like Shockey or Bavaro. Drafting him at 23 was a great value pick, but why pretend that his not being able to block defensive ends doesn't matter?

OWA small for a DT

Demontre Moore? too narrow ....Sintim? no base for a big guy.

I love the EE pick, but the kid was 227lbs and ran a 4.67 40 as recently as 2015. That's small and slow, its an injury risk.

In comment 13463941 djm said:

Quote:

The TEs didn't improve bcsuse they are frickin terrible. You can only make chicken salad out of chicken shit for so long. The d did improve. Facts. Thanks. Keep it up.

Glad you agree.

In comment 13464041 Ira said:

Quote:

as a receiver. He can also block linebackers and defensive backs. But it would also be an asset if he could block defensive ends on running plays. Having one tight end like him and another like Ellison is much more limiting than having a two way tight end like Shockey or Bavaro. Drafting him at 23 was a great value pick, but why pretend that his not being able to block defensive ends doesn't matter?

Because it doesn't.

And for the idiot, Engram ran a 4.42 at the Combine and weighed in at 234.

prior to the Demontre Moore pick.

Looking back, we like to pretend that it was all about 'stupid on and off the field' with Moore. But the situation here, really, was that his physical base was just too narrow and weak, any OLT worth his salt would just reach out a paw and the kid was on the ground.

Here, with the new TE, I get the whole 'new style O' thing and DO expect, or hope for, great things for the kid.

That's the thing about bias, for example, some ....lets say, blond 24 year old women, are also really nice, and some are crazy beaitches, so, the bias is a % crap shoot.

Sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't. But, don't pretend you don't have it.

Put on your reading glasses.

I can happily wait your apology, but its tiresome to do your reading for you.

>in 2015< and the issue was how he gained 10 lbs and got .10 faster and implications of injury risk.

Sheesh. Its like a fucking elementary school.

side note but look at some of these underclassemen
idiotsavant : 2:43 pm : link : reply

TE draft prospects, now famous and much faster.... 40 times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>from 2015<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<!

MyCole Pruitt TE 4 Southern Illinois rSr 6-2 251 4.52
Will Tye TE 29 Stony Brook rSr 6-2 257 4.57
*O.J. Howard TE 3 Alabama Jr 6-6 242 4.59
C.J. Uzomah TE 12 Auburn Sr 6-6 262 4.62
*Evan Engram TE 4 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 227 4.64
Jerell Adams TE 8 South Carolina Sr 6-5 232 4.64
Wes Saxton TE 10 South Alabama Sr 6-3 248 4.64
Kennard Backman TE 28 UAB Sr 6-3 243 4.66
James O'Shaughnessy TE 14 Illinois State rSr 6-4 248 4.68

I couldn't care less about what went down in 2015. But, please keep muddying up every thread you post on with your own patented gibberish.

Anyone can lcok down on the double team....and if you can't block on the perimeter in space at 6'3:/235# what good are you?

There's a clear cut difference between blocking in those situations and being a capable in-line blocker at the NFL level. Which Engram won't be at the outset of his career and may never be.

Are nothing but estimates.

Carry on.

EE was slow in 2015? Not true. He isn't a one year wonder who suddenly gained speed. He' absurd SEC defenders for years.

In comment 13464046 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

OWA small for a DT Demontre Moore? too narrow ....Sintim? no base for a big guy. I love the EE pick, but the kid was 227lbs and ran a 4.67 40 as recently as 2015. That's small and slow, its an injury risk.

Guess the "idiot" didn't watch Engram's combine

In comment 13463873 Klaatu said:

Quote:

You draft him to create mismatches, to get out in space and make things happen, with or without the ball in his hands.

+1

This:

Engram - ( New Window )

Collins left a comment about that play.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13463827 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

The NFL isn't Auburn. The DE's are going to have 50 lbs on him, the lbs will have 30 and he will barely have 10 pounds on the safeties. Finley, an undersized tight end at 247 lbs and a third round pick, was always hurt and never played a full season. He was finished at age 26 due to a bruised spinal cord. You don't want Engram blocking anyone but corners of you expect him to have any kind of career.

This is, by far, the dumbest post of the year.

264 lb. linebackers? 224 lb. safeties?

Holy shit, man.

The guy is an impact player and he is not afraid of blocking well,he does enough on blocks to get the job done.He has good feet to get in between the plays to make him very effective blocking.I never understood the knock on his blocking because he does the job asked.I guarantee he will split the seam too and open up other receivers and our running game because the safeties will have to focus on him.

In comment 13464653 ReneNYG1 said:

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The guy is an impact player and he is not afraid of blocking well,he does enough on blocks to get the job done.He has good feet to get in between the plays to make him very effective blocking.I never understood the knock on his blocking because he does the job asked.I guarantee he will split the seam too and open up other receivers and our running game because the safeties will have to focus on him.

I would describe Engram blocking style to be able to seal his man he can't drive him but he does accomplish a nice seal on him enabling the runner to get past.

And most TE's will be undersized against NFL DE's. The fact that he's a willing blocker is big in my book - at least he;s making the effort out there. That alone can be the difference on some plays - just that part of a second he gets in front of a guy can make or break a play. On the flip side, he's going to lose some matchups because of size, but much rather have a high effort guy than one with the size who shys from contact.

Anyway, main role of a TE now is as a receiver, if he puts up solid #'s his blocking will be an afterthought (since he'll be running routes more often anyway). Yes, blocking is part of the TE role too, but some good scheming/coaching should be able to make use of EE's WR skills and Ellison's blocking (without completely telegraphing the play by who is on the field).

In comment 13464836 Cenotaph said:

Quote:

And most TE's will be undersized against NFL DE's. The fact that he's a willing blocker is big in my book - at least he;s making the effort out there. That alone can be the difference on some plays - just that part of a second he gets in front of a guy can make or break a play. On the flip side, he's going to lose some matchups because of size, but much rather have a high effort guy than one with the size who shys from contact. Anyway, main role of a TE now is as a receiver, if he puts up solid #'s his blocking will be an afterthought (since he'll be running routes more often anyway). Yes, blocking is part of the TE role too, but some good scheming/coaching should be able to make use of EE's WR skills and Ellison's blocking (without completely telegraphing the play by who is on the field).

This. ^^^

he did not do a poor job but he wasnt great. if hes lined up in the slot and cracking down or blocking nickelbacks im sure he will find success but i dont know how he'll be used. if he is on the LOS then i question his ability to take on DE's and backers. to me hes a WR being called a TE, idk if we should expect an in line blocking TE skill set.

This guy eats sleeps and drinks Football and is a very hard practicing and dedicated player.

either in the slot or as an h back. When he was lined up in the slot, he almost always went out for a pass. When he was lined up as an h back, he almost always stayed in to block. I expect the Giants to be a little more creative in the way they use him.

I wonder if the Giants will be able to pull off some TE screens.

WOO!!!