For those who say Engram can't block

He really shut down Daeshon Hall and only whiffed once against Garrett.

In comment 13463665 adamg said:

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He really shut down Daeshon Hall and only whiffed once against Garrett.

Didn't see it. Good video, though.

In comment 13463668 TheGhostofBlueGuy said:

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In comment 13463665 adamg said: Quote: He really shut down Daeshon Hall and only whiffed once against Garrett. Didn't see it. Good video, though.

I'm glad you posted it again. Hopefully the fans at least will realize the whole narrative that Engram is a smaller, faster Brandon Marshall isn't the best comp or the idea that he's only a big slot receiver is bogus.

I can't wait to see this offense in September.

Engram is going to be a game changer. I think the Njoku obsession/disenchantment post draft revolved around the idea of what the 2016 offense was. We ran 11 personnel over 90% of the time last year, so I think a lot of people thought we needed a two way TE in order to better run that grouping, which may well be the case. But in 2017, I expect we'll be all over the place with our personnel groupings, and the idea that we need a two way TE will be shown to be inaccurate.

He won't drive block but that is ok.

His directional blocking is decent.

Those games show some of those drops that seem more concentration issues.....one leading to an INT.

Some routes look great....some others look a little half ass.....needs to clean them up

a formation with Beckham out wide with Marshall in the slot and Engram on the wing. Beckham loops inside to catch a screen with the other 2 blocking. We've seen if you give Beckham a crack, he can get big yardage.

is supposed to pancake DE's and LB's, they are going to be disappointed. Engram is not going to pancake a charging lineman, but he has the ability (and is willing) to tie up loose players for a play to unfold.

He might even be better than a plodding 6-6 / 265 lb behemoth known for blocking because he is fast and quick and can get in front of guys to take them out of the play.

The game is evolving every year and we need to keep up. Many of the traditional roles of a smash mouth football team have gone the way of the dinosaur. Everything now is "quick" and the ball is in the air more than being carried.

In short, any worries about Engram as a blocker are wasted energy

build him back up as a blocker.

Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform...

In comment 13463681 Jimmy Googs said:

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build him back up as a blocker. Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform...

Yep, and the trolly douchebags appear. Nice job, dick.

but the potential is off the charts. Of course, potential remains just that. but it's a fair concept to throw around in the offseason and while there was a thread recently asking if "this was the best group of receivers the Giants ever had", I think the question should be: Is this POTENTIALLY the greatest group that EVER played? - IE..at anywhere and at any time.
We have two potential HOF'ers and that alone is rare (Beckham & Marshall), we have this kid and Shepard with Vereen out of the backfield. There's even depth with a King who is in the second year of anticipated great growth and the servicable Lewis.
One problem....you can't play with two balls and sometimes I wonder if too much talent can't be a problem...particularly if you're not winning for even a short period of time... Gonna be one of the most exciting seasons ever just watching how all this talent blends - or doesn't.

For all those thinking he is really our #4 WR, the guy is a TE. He will put on 10 more pds to get near 250, and at 6'4" thats decent size. He will play in multiple places, but the starting point will be with his hand on the ground like a normal TE. McAdoo has said this.

This offense is not TC's offense. This offense is what Green Bay ran back when McAdoo was OC. Engram will have the role of Jemichael Finnley. The times he lines up as an inline blocker will be less than 20% of the snaps. The guy will be a receiver first. Having said that, he will be an above average blocker on the perimeter (where he will be most of the time). The guy is going to help this offense a lot and gives us flexibility we would not have without him.

In comment 13463681 Jimmy Googs said:

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build him back up as a blocker. Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform...

Same way the defense was never going to improve because it sucked in 2014 and 2015 am I right? Great contributions by the way. Keep at it.

I feel like people didn't actually pay attention and just went off the assumption that he's 230-240 with 4.4 speed so he must not be able to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VehxtjQmIHQ

we also have that ^, so whatever

The NFL isn't Auburn. The DE's are going to have 50 lbs on him, the lbs will have 30 and he will barely have 10 pounds on the safeties.

Finley, an undersized tight end at 247 lbs and a third round pick, was always hurt and never played a full season. He was finished at age 26 due to a bruised spinal cord.

You don't want Engram blocking anyone but corners of you expect him to have any kind of career.

the same weight and not as fast. Certainly his concussions have little to do with weight..Gates is around 10 pounds heavier..Vernon Davis is around 5 pounds heavier..

These guys were briught in the wreak havoc on Secondaries..They don't block all that much, nor should they have to, imo

.

In comment 13463827 HomerJones45 said:

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The NFL isn't Auburn. The DE's are going to have 50 lbs on him, the lbs will have 30 and he will barely have 10 pounds on the safeties. Finley, an undersized tight end at 247 lbs and a third round pick, was always hurt and never played a full season. He was finished at age 26 due to a bruised spinal cord. You don't want Engram blocking anyone but corners of you expect him to have any kind of career.

I'm terrified of all those 260+ pound LBs these days ... oh wait, it's 2017

injuries are a concern. They are a concern for every TE in this league. Gronk is huge and look what he has been through. Reed is more in line with Engram's size and he has been injured a lot. TE's and slot receivers take a pounding in the NFL.

''No worries. The Giant coaches will tear him down and then
Jimmy Googs : 7:20 am : link : reply

build him back up as a blocker.

Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform...''

Very Obviously, schematic changes need be in the works both with regards the run game and the pass game and especially with regards to the interplay between the two.

Its not 'your old Tom Caughlin vs Air Coryell and therefor who cares'. That's nonsense.


I will not be surprised to see both:

lots of EE TDs .......

AND legit NFL DEs or even DTs or even LBs throw his EEs ass right onto the ground once in a while .....as well.

At around 230 pounds. He missed some games here and there, but he was relatively durable.

Oh, and I watched Engram knock 253-pound Ryan Anderson (drafted by the Redskins) on his ass during the Senior Bowl practices. On the next play, he blew by Anderson for a touchdown.

not sure that's a legit NFL comp

list of D ends.

''Round 1: Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan: The Cowboys have obvious needs both along the defensive line and in their secondary. In the first round, they found a big-body defensive end

(6'6, 277) to pair with the young

6'7, 284-pound David Irving.

(welcome to the NFL EE, hope your feeling well, Mr. Eric Flowers, in week #1)


While Charlton didn't have eye-popping numbers (just 19 sacks over his four-year career), he had a monster performance in one of the biggest regular-season games in college football this past season, when he had nine tackles and 2.5 sacks against Ohio State. But those performances were too few and far between.

Still, Charlton is an athletic specimen and a height-weight-speed dream for NFL scouts, and he constitutes appropriate value in the tail end of the first round......
''

In comment 13463760 djm said:

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In comment 13463681 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: build him back up as a blocker. Just look at how solid the O-line and other TEs perform... Same way the defense was never going to improve because it sucked in 2014 and 2015 am I right? Great contributions by the way. Keep at it.

Vernon, Snacks, Jenkins, Robinson, and Apple all new. Collins was really the only home-grown on Defense that took his game up considerably.

but you know, those are just facts...

You draft him to create mismatches, to get out in space and make things happen, with or without the ball in his hands.

''
The single-back TE

This is the traditional use of the role and requires a player who can line up in an attached, in-line spot and block on the edge. This player is generally long (6'3" or better) and heavy (240+) enough to >>>>grapple with defensive ends. This is very challenging since the TE doesn't get any momentum or often even a favorable angle to help him out and because the defensive end is often one of the best athletes on the field at projecting explosive power in a short distance and time frame.

A really great single-back TE who can grapple with an end is

>>>>>>>>invaluable on zone schemes for allowing the offense to single-block a DE with him and thus allow the OL to double team the defensive tackles on tight zone:
(image)

Or he can help them to dominate the edge on >>>>>
wide zone by helping the >>tackle reach the end before advancing to take out the linebacker or safety that gets there first.
''

-----

I am -not- saying that EE 'need be this type' to be of use to our team.

However, lets not pretend that he -is- a lock to BE this type either, in the NFC East. That's just silly now.

If they wanted another one, they could have easily drafted one later on or signed one as a UDFA. Clearly, that's not what they were looking for.

but the OP is with regards to blocking, unspecified.

Certainly, the new kid can be of use on the team in a variety of capacities.

To be a good blocker is ludicrous. And if you think the Giants are going to keep Engram inline so he can take on DEs on a regular basis you're sadly mistaken.

In comment 13463900 Klaatu said:

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To be a good blocker is ludicrous. And if you think the Giants are going to keep Engram inline so he can take on DEs on a regular basis you're sadly mistaken.

Agree. Further to that, we have a handful of 6-5 320 pounders and they certainly aren't good blockers either.

Looking forward to seeing Engram kick ass at what he was drafted to do...

Safeties, 210. CBs, 193. These are the opponents that Engram is going to face as a blocker more often than not.

In comment 13463926 Klaatu said:

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Safeties, 210. CBs, 193. These are the opponents that Engram is going to face as a blocker more often than not.

I'm not sure these numbers include this year's draftees, but for argument's sake:

PHI: LBs, 235. Safeties, 199. CBs, 192.
WAS: LBs, 253. Safeties, 206. CBs, 199.

The TEs didn't improve bcsuse they are frickin terrible. You can only make chicken salad out of chicken shit for so long.

The d did improve. Facts. Thanks. Keep it up.

is limited.

I do see some posters parroting what they read on ESPN or CBS, and repeating it ad nauseum as if it were the gospel. What else is new? It's par for the course during draft season.

Keep him super quick and explosive. He's going to be a pass catcher. Not an inline blocker.

He'll be fine at 235lbs.

Pretty sure I read a McAdoo or Reese quote that Engram wasn't going to be blocking defensive lineman. Nor should he.

as a result of the OP not stating -which kind- of blocking he specified.

Constantly moving the goal posts as to the subject of the discussion (here, inline... or vs corners or what) does not make for a good conversation nor make anyone appear to have better contributions.

If you weed through all the posturing and juvenile needs to 'be right', >>>>we are all in agreement!

''The idea that you have to be some 6-6, 265-pound monster...
Klaatu : 12:41 pm : link : reply

To be a good blocker is ludicrous. And if you think the Giants are going to keep Engram inline so he can take on DEs on a regular basis you're sadly mistaken.''

And can't be covered except by a CB or star DB.

Line him up against a LB and you can just pass it to him (though you can run it, too).

Line him up against a cover DB and you can run to his spot (though you can pass it, too).

TE draft prospects, now famous and much faster.... 40 times from 2015!

MyCole Pruitt TE 4 Southern Illinois rSr 6-2 251 4.52
Will Tye TE 29 Stony Brook rSr 6-2 257 4.57
*O.J. Howard TE 3 Alabama Jr 6-6 242 4.59
C.J. Uzomah TE 12 Auburn Sr 6-6 262 4.62
*Evan Engram TE 4 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 227 4.64
Jerell Adams TE 8 South Carolina Sr 6-5 232 4.64
Wes Saxton TE 10 South Alabama Sr 6-3 248 4.64
Kennard Backman TE 28 UAB Sr 6-3 243 4.66
James O'Shaughnessy TE 14 Illinois State rSr 6-4 248 4.68

it seems that the issue has been knees and injuries, not aptitude.

He looks like a kid that could probably be a legit two function TE if he is actually healthy. Big If though.

its an insight, our Giants have all gotten bigger, a few got bigger and faster.

One wonders about injury risk, overall bone and cartilage base within which they are working.

One thing about Tye, the player is solidly put together.

MyCole Pruitt TE 4 Southern Illinois rSr 6-2 251 4.52
Will Tye TE 29 Stony Brook rSr 6-2 257 4.57
*O.J. Howard TE 3 Alabama Jr 6-6 242 4.59
C.J. Uzomah TE 12 Auburn Sr 6-6 262 4.62

>>*Evan Engram TE 4 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 227 4.64

>>Jerell Adams TE 8 South Carolina Sr 6-5 232 4.64

Wes Saxton TE 10 South Alabama Sr 6-3 248 4.64
Kennard Backman TE 28 UAB Sr 6-3 243 4.66
James O'Shaughnessy TE 14 Illinois State rSr 6-4 248 4.68

how could you not love this pick?

approach to this discussion.

I am also excited about the Engram kid and what he can do!

But the subjects of types of blocking, types of players.

A new subject: if you look at how skinny and slow the kid EE was in 2015, one wonders if he will hold up (remain uninjured) and / or if he has maxed out size wise, and what that means for situational roles going forward.

Its the seemingly crazy "JR has a bias towards narrow kids" from pre-draft. It holds over time.

as a receiver. He can also block linebackers and defensive backs. But it would also be an asset if he could block defensive ends on running plays. Having one tight end like him and another like Ellison is much more limiting than having a two way tight end like Shockey or Bavaro. Drafting him at 23 was a great value pick, but why pretend that his not being able to block defensive ends doesn't matter?

OWA small for a DT

Demontre Moore? too narrow ....Sintim? no base for a big guy.

I love the EE pick, but the kid was 227lbs and ran a 4.67 40 as recently as 2015. That's small and slow, its an injury risk.

In comment 13463941 djm said:

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The TEs didn't improve bcsuse they are frickin terrible. You can only make chicken salad out of chicken shit for so long. The d did improve. Facts. Thanks. Keep it up.

Glad you agree.

In comment 13464041 Ira said:

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as a receiver. He can also block linebackers and defensive backs. But it would also be an asset if he could block defensive ends on running plays. Having one tight end like him and another like Ellison is much more limiting than having a two way tight end like Shockey or Bavaro. Drafting him at 23 was a great value pick, but why pretend that his not being able to block defensive ends doesn't matter?

Because it doesn't.

And for the idiot, Engram ran a 4.42 at the Combine and weighed in at 234.

prior to the Demontre Moore pick.

Looking back, we like to pretend that it was all about 'stupid on and off the field' with Moore. But the situation here, really, was that his physical base was just too narrow and weak, any OLT worth his salt would just reach out a paw and the kid was on the ground.

Here, with the new TE, I get the whole 'new style O' thing and DO expect, or hope for, great things for the kid.

That's the thing about bias, for example, some ....lets say, blond 24 year old women, are also really nice, and some are crazy beaitches, so, the bias is a % crap shoot.

Sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't. But, don't pretend you don't have it.

Put on your reading glasses.

I can happily wait your apology, but its tiresome to do your reading for you.

>in 2015< and the issue was how he gained 10 lbs and got .10 faster and implications of injury risk.

Sheesh. Its like a fucking elementary school.

side note but look at some of these underclassemen
idiotsavant : 2:43 pm : link : reply

TE draft prospects, now famous and much faster.... 40 times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>from 2015<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<!

MyCole Pruitt TE 4 Southern Illinois rSr 6-2 251 4.52
Will Tye TE 29 Stony Brook rSr 6-2 257 4.57
*O.J. Howard TE 3 Alabama Jr 6-6 242 4.59
C.J. Uzomah TE 12 Auburn Sr 6-6 262 4.62
*Evan Engram TE 4 Ole Miss Jr 6-3 227 4.64
Jerell Adams TE 8 South Carolina Sr 6-5 232 4.64
Wes Saxton TE 10 South Alabama Sr 6-3 248 4.64
Kennard Backman TE 28 UAB Sr 6-3 243 4.66
James O'Shaughnessy TE 14 Illinois State rSr 6-4 248 4.68