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The Giants have greatly improved their blocking this off sea

Jesse B : 5/7/2017 11:43 am
And no that's not sarcasm. Blocking has a lot to do with tnhe offensive line but it also has a lot to do with the pieces on the edge. The Giants looked at what was available this off-season and in the draft at offensive line and decided they would do what they could. And what they have done is improve heir situational blocking tremendously.

D.J. Fluker may or may not be an upgrade but Rhett Ellison absolutely is an upgrade to Will Tye. And that helps a lot. Having a TE who is useful blocker is important

The other over looked item was that the Giants had the smallest WR corps in the league last year between Beckham, Sheppard and Cruz.

Now be Giants can go three WR wide with a TE and have Beckham on the outside and have Marshall in the slot. Or Engram and give a legitimate run/pass threat on third down. engram may not be a good blocking TE but he's an extremely good blocking WR who is a viable WR weapons

They have also added a full back.

The Giants also now have a player who can threaten the cover two and get in more favorable matchups.

The offensive line is not great but last year they had no help on the edges and there it's improved greatly.
seriously it depends on schematics at this point  
idiotsavant : 5/7/2017 12:02 pm : link
your new FA two way TE is a very nice get, on the right side, but as of last year, Flowers was still on the left edge

all alone

in the '11'

and that shit wont get it, especially with last years play selection WITHIN that '11'.

Blocking also looks a hell of a lot better  
Chris L. : 5/7/2017 12:04 pm : link
when you have decent running backs carrying the rock. Jennings is the biggest addition by subtraction you could think of. Also, Gallman is a hard runner who will take it between the tackles with aggression. I also think you will see Blount in a big blue uniform after Tuesday.
...  
christian : 5/7/2017 12:08 pm : link
Outstanding point and something Macadoo referenced during and after the season. His scheme relies on winning 2-1, 3-2, 4-3 battles. That's going to include the TE, H back, RB, FB.

The team had virtually no one helping who was a good blocker last year. Adding back Vareen and Ellison is going to help alot.
Just to be clear, the Giants haven't really tried to  
Jimmy Googs : 5/7/2017 12:19 pm : link
block anybody yet this offseason.

So, lets see what happens...

What people fail to realize  
Jay on the Island : 5/7/2017 12:20 pm : link
about the struggles of the offensive line is the severe lack of help they received from the TE position. The Giants had the worst group of blocking TE's in the NFL last year which really does affect the offensive line. Now they replaced arguably the worst starting blocking TE in Donnell with one of the best in Ellison. Adams showed potential and will only get better as a blocker as well. Just to be clear I am not saying that the reason for the offensive line's performance was solely because of the TE play. I was just stating that it had an impact on their performance.

Look back to the 2002 season when the Giants had an offensive line filled with UDFA's and late round picks. Their offensive line played excellent with help from Dan Campbell at TE who was the best blocking TE in football IMO. They moved Petitgout from RT to LT, former UDFA's Rich Seubert and Jason Whittle to LG and RG. Former UDFA Chris Bober at center and 5th round pick Mike Rosentahl at RT.
RE: Blocking also looks a hell of a lot better  
Mason Storm : 5/7/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13463859 Chris L. said:
Quote:
when you have decent running backs carrying the rock. Jennings is the biggest addition by subtraction you could think of. Also, Gallman is a hard runner who will take it between the tackles with aggression. I also think you will see Blount in a big blue uniform after Tuesday.


I agree with what you said about Jennings. He gave us next to nothing last year. The only thing that he was actually OK at was blocking. I didn't lose any sleep once the giants decided to part ways.
Who is the new FB?  
Doomster : 5/7/2017 12:41 pm : link
.
RE: seriously it depends on schematics at this point  
Jesse B : 5/7/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13463855 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
your new FA two way TE is a very nice get, on the right side, but as of last year, Flowers was still on the left edge

all alone

in the '11'

and that shit wont get it, especially with last years play selection WITHIN that '11'.


Yes that's not inaccurate but hopefully they'll use Ellison to chip more and more two TE sets
RE: Who is the new FB?  
Klaatu : 5/7/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13463901 Doomster said:
Quote:
.


Well, I hope it's Shane Smith, UDFA.
many agree on this  
idiotsavant : 5/7/2017 2:07 pm : link
RE: seriously it depends on schematics at this point
Jesse B : 12:41 pm : link : reply

In comment 13463855 idiotsavant said:

Quote:
your new FA two way TE is a very nice get, on the right side, but as of last year, Flowers was still on the left edge

all alone

in the '11'

and that shit wont get it, especially with last years play selection WITHIN that '11'.



Yes that's not inaccurate but hopefully they'll use Ellison to chip more and more two TE sets''


---------

and that EE is not the 'regular inline or too many downs inline ' type, so...who is the left inline in 'two TEs'?

I wonder if Biz could do it?
RE: Blocking also looks a hell of a lot better  
Blue21 : 5/7/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13463859 Chris L. said:
Quote:
when you have decent running backs carrying the rock. Jennings is the biggest addition by subtraction you could think of. Also, Gallman is a hard runner who will take it between the tackles with aggression. I also think you will see Blount in a big blue uniform after Tuesday.


Is there an advantage waiting til Tuesday. Is it comp picks? Because I was wondering this myself
The Vikings used Ellison to help their struggling LT, T.J. Clemmings.  
Klaatu : 5/7/2017 2:12 pm : link
No reason he can't help our own LT if his struggles continue. It should be noted, though, that if you buy what PFF is selling, Ereck Flowers showed marked improvement from 2015 to 2016, and the hope is that he will continue to improve.
.red zone set  
idiotsavant : 5/7/2017 2:12 pm : link

EE (wide left)


BIZ (left 'TE')
Flowers (OLT)
Pugh (OLG)
Richburg (OC)
Fluker (ORG)
Hart (ORT)
Ellison (TE right)

Marshal (Wide right)


(perkins/manning)
outside zone run/boot pass option formation  
idiotsavant : 5/7/2017 2:20 pm : link
EE..........EL/Pugh/Hart[Rich]Fluke\Flow\Biz.........Marshal


.........................Manning.........................

........................RB................................


Outside Zone 'big' Run/Boot Pass option

With BIZ as your right TE, you have 5 'receiving options' in EE,Marshal, a RB, Ellison and BIZ as a TE

ideal being that Ellison / Pugh flow in zone better, Bliz/Flowers stronger on right side

and a powerful run blocking set that is a legit threat from anywhere on the field.
with ODB as 'RB' in this you have a scary wheel route option  
idiotsavant : 5/7/2017 2:28 pm : link
.
to the original post  
mdc1 : 5/7/2017 6:09 pm : link
their is no proof of improvements in blocking, nor does evidence of this exist for the last 4-5 seasons.
Healthy Richburg also improves the blocking this coming season  
Rick in Dallas : 5/7/2017 6:54 pm : link
...
I still think  
old man : 5/7/2017 7:46 pm : link
the strategy was that:
If the couldnt make the OL better given the talent of the FAs and picks that were available, helping the OL with a blocking TE would make the run game better;
given the OL could not be made better talent-wise via the draft, and should , at least for certain formations the OL not be better than last year, having a 3rd fast option in EE, and a big receiver in Marshall, Eli would likely have more open targets if he had to throw the ball in under his 2.6 seconds of last year.
If the OL actually IS better, WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
RE: to the original post  
David in LA : 5/7/2017 7:54 pm : link
In comment 13464101 mdc1 said:
Quote:
their is no proof of improvements in blocking, nor does evidence of this exist for the last 4-5 seasons.


You can improve blocking without making huge changes to the OL. Marshall and Ellison are drastic upgrades over Cruz and Donnell in that department.
RE: Just to be clear, the Giants haven't really tried to  
ErichBarnes102 : 5/7/2017 8:15 pm : link
In comment 13463871 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
block anybody yet this offseason.

So, lets see what happens...

Sure, let's wait until September to have any discussions about the Giants.
blocking on screens and running plays will be improved BUT  
Vanzetti : 5/7/2017 8:29 pm : link
the real problem is pass protection. All those weapons don't mean squat if Eli does not have the time to throw.

Ellison might help out some but he is not a solution.

Giants are primarily counting on continuity and the natural maturation process of young guys to lead to improvement on the OL.
RE: RE: Just to be clear, the Giants haven't really tried to  
Jimmy Googs : 5/7/2017 8:34 pm : link
In comment 13464144 ErichBarnes102 said:
Quote:
In comment 13463871 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


block anybody yet this offseason.

So, lets see what happens...



Sure, let's wait until September to have any discussions about the Giants.


that should give you and Reese plenty of time to put up the Super Bowl clock...
"continuity and maturation"  
grizz299 : 5/7/2017 9:10 pm : link
good stuff, and yes, it UNresonably to assume that very young players won't get better just as a consequence of being older/more experienced and having played together.
Amd maybe that wil be enough.
Sounds good on paper.  
TMS : 5/7/2017 9:22 pm : link
We desperately need Flowers to give us better value at either tackle or guard NOW.
good post  
BlackburnBalledOut : 5/7/2017 9:30 pm : link
. Good points. lets hope they get be better then last year and give the offense some balance and help out the D..if they can theyre gonne be a special football team
RE: RE: seriously it depends on schematics at this point  
adamg : 5/7/2017 10:53 pm : link
In comment 13463902 Jesse B said:
Quote:
In comment 13463855 idiotsavant said:


Quote:


your new FA two way TE is a very nice get, on the right side, but as of last year, Flowers was still on the left edge

all alone

in the '11'

and that shit wont get it, especially with last years play selection WITHIN that '11'.




Yes that's not inaccurate but hopefully they'll use Ellison to chip more and more two TE sets


I wouldn't be surprised if they put Ellison out on the right side, and have Engram help Flowers. Engram seems like he'd be good at helping set up Flowers' blocks who then won't need consistent help. Let Engram chip on the left side and then go out underneath and use his 4.42 to devastate defenses.
RE: to the original post  
djm : 5/7/2017 11:23 pm : link
In comment 13464101 mdc1 said:
Quote:
their is no proof of improvements in blocking, nor does evidence of this exist for the last 4-5 seasons.


How is there no proof? They signed one of the best blocking TEs in football. They signed one of the best blocking WRs in football. They drafted a kid that is undoubtably a better blocker than will tye. And flowers was better in December than he was in September of 2016.

RE: RE: RE: Just to be clear, the Giants haven't really tried to  
djm : 5/7/2017 11:24 pm : link
In comment 13464155 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13464144 ErichBarnes102 said:


Quote:


In comment 13463871 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


block anybody yet this offseason.

So, lets see what happens...



Sure, let's wait until September to have any discussions about the Giants.



that should give you and Reese plenty of time to put up the Super Bowl clock...


You've become quite the heel around here. Seems like you enjoy it.
RE: RE: to the original post  
Jimmy Googs : 5/8/2017 7:40 am : link
In comment 13464399 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13464101 mdc1 said:


Quote:


their is no proof of improvements in blocking, nor does evidence of this exist for the last 4-5 seasons.



How is there no proof? They signed one of the best blocking TEs in football. They signed one of the best blocking WRs in football. They drafted a kid that is undoubtably a better blocker than will tye. And flowers was better in December than he was in September of 2016.


Because that is not proof. Yes the expectation is Ellison and Marshall give us more than what Giants had but some need to see it in our Offense while we run our plays. Don't go to Vegas yet betting on Engram being a better blocker than Tye in his rookie season. And the Flowers comment is just wrong, or its right but to a level of immateriality.
Don't forget Draughn  
HoustonGiant : 5/8/2017 10:12 am : link
He is excellent in pass protection.
RE: Don't forget Draughn  
santacruzom : 5/8/2017 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13464803 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
He is excellent in pass protection.


It seems I already have. Is he even favored to make the team.
RE: RE: RE: to the original post  
djm : 5/8/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13464589 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13464399 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 13464101 mdc1 said:


Quote:


their is no proof of improvements in blocking, nor does evidence of this exist for the last 4-5 seasons.



How is there no proof? They signed one of the best blocking TEs in football. They signed one of the best blocking WRs in football. They drafted a kid that is undoubtably a better blocker than will tye. And flowers was better in December than he was in September of 2016.




Because that is not proof. Yes the expectation is Ellison and Marshall give us more than what Giants had but some need to see it in our Offense while we run our plays. Don't go to Vegas yet betting on Engram being a better blocker than Tye in his rookie season. And the Flowers comment is just wrong, or its right but to a level of immateriality.


the Flowers comment is not wrong. I can't remember which, either Reese or McAdoo but one of them if not both said Flowers played better down the stretch and this was AFTER I said the very same thing on BBI. I watched the games. Then watched them again. Flowers most definitely had some of his better games in December, excluding Dallas. He was terrible in that game. Can't remember @ Philly as I have no desire to watch that one again. Against Det, Wash and GB? HE was solid. Watch the games. Listen to what the NYG bosses said.

And if signing one of the quality blocking TEs to 20 million isn't proof of anything that WTF am I even talking to you for. Ellison is an upgrade. Fact. Of course he could get hurt or turn into the worst blocker in football overnight but Tom Brady could retire tomorrow too.

the OP was a good post  
ColHowPepper : 5/8/2017 6:28 pm : link
and I hope it proves out.

Otherwise, a lot of ego on this thread, including Jay, who says "What people fail to realize about the struggles of the OL is the severe lack of help it received from the TE position...", which was one of the central points of the OP. So I think Jesse did not fail to realize.

No question, as it was in 2016, a big ? is the degree of improvement, or not, from EF. But in Ellison, Marshall, EE (not sure about Vereen, never thought of him as a big + as a blocking asset), there is room for hope at the edges.
Your posts are really winning me over  
Jimmy Googs : 5/8/2017 6:45 pm : link
not sure I need to read any more of them...
no matter who plays where won't matter much  
Jersey55 : 5/9/2017 10:54 am : link
if the play calling stays the same as last year....
If you buy what PFF is selling (and I'm not sure that I do)...  
Klaatu : 5/9/2017 11:58 am : link
Then the offensive line, as a whole, actually performed better in 2016 than it did in 2015. The offense's lack of production in 2016 compared to 2015 was due more to poor blocking from the TE position, as well as poor play from the RBs and WRs. It seems to me that the Giants addressed those failings as best they could this year.
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