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Herzlich switches to No 44 so he can be used on offense

Defenderdawg : 5/9/2017 6:13 pm
James Kratch (@JamesKratch)
5/9/17, 6:09 PM
There's a reason why Mark Herzlich is now No. 44: He is going to be used on offense this year, he says. Working both ways
TE specifically  
Defenderdawg : 5/9/2017 6:14 pm : link
Dan Duggan (@DDuggan21)
5/9/17, 6:09 PM
Why did Mark Herzlich switch to No. 44? He needed an eligible number. He's been working at tight end this offseason
.  
pjcas18 : 5/9/2017 6:14 pm : link
Quote:
Dan Duggan‏Verified account @DDuggan21 5m5 minutes ago

Why did Mark Herzlich switch to No. 44? He needed an eligible number. He's been working at tight end this offseason.
He has to find a way to stay valuable enough for a roster spot.  
LI NHB : 5/9/2017 6:16 pm : link
Versatility at FB/TE in addition to specials.
Herzlich  
pjcas18 : 5/9/2017 6:18 pm : link
has played TE before, so not sure why the sudden need to change his jersey number to do so.
Oh my  
Jimmy Googs : 5/9/2017 6:18 pm : link
.
I don't know if he makes the team  
Anakim : 5/9/2017 6:20 pm : link
Seems like Calvin Munson is a younger version of him
This isn't really new  
pjcas18 : 5/9/2017 6:20 pm : link
unless it's more than the goal line plays like the one linked below against the Patriots from 2015
Link - ( New Window )
RE: He has to find a way to stay valuable enough for a roster spot.  
mrvax : 5/9/2017 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13466799 LI NHB said:
Quote:
Versatility at FB/TE in addition to specials.


Huh. And was hoping he could play linebacker.
Maybe he should learn to play defense first  
Victor in CT : 5/9/2017 6:23 pm : link
This guy has more lives than Freddy Kruger
Very interesting...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/9/2017 6:28 pm : link
He's an easy player to root for, but I don't know what it means if he makes it at TE. Let's think about the numbers at TE/FB.

The max number of roster spots we should allocate to those positions combined IMO is 5.

Considering Engram, Ellison, Adams, we will have a battle between Tye, Lacosse, Collin Thompson, Shane Smith, and Herz for that fifth spot, with possibly more vet options to be added (I hope).

Considering his versatility and value on ST, he should be good to compete for the fifth spot. I'd prefer we bring in a quality FB to compete right now though. Not sure how we can say all offseason that not having a FB on the roster hurt us all last year, then this year only have one undrafted free agent rookie on the roster for the position.
RE: Maybe he should learn to play defense first  
81_Great_Dane : 5/9/2017 6:31 pm : link
In comment 13466811 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
This guy has more lives than Freddy Kruger
He's better on special teams than defense. If he's good enough on specials to justify his roster spot, I'm good with that.

However, when they already carry DeOssie, who was a linebacker but ended up being solely a long snapper, they can't have another player who can't play on O or D. So maybe Herzlich just isn't good enough to stick as a linebacker, even a last-string backup, and needs another position. If he's good enough to be a blocking TE, I'm good with that, too.

Can he play fullback?
Herzlich has become a physical presence.  
TC : 5/9/2017 6:41 pm : link
He may have a shot, it's worth a try for him anyway.
Mac  
River : 5/9/2017 6:44 pm : link
Plan B if Ellison gets hurt and we have no one to move people. Not going to get hurt like last year when will johnson got hurt.
D. Skinner was far more effective as a special teams player  
Jimmy Googs : 5/9/2017 7:01 pm : link
than Herzlich last season. So was both Goodson and DeOssie.

If Herzlich wants to truly be valuable to the roster he should become a long snapper so we have a backup...
The Giants are thinking outside the box on offense  
jcn56 : 5/9/2017 7:02 pm : link
They see the rest of the NFL using speed to kill, so they're going the opposite route, and putting their slowest player on offense.
From what I read  
pjcas18 : 5/9/2017 7:04 pm : link
this is just TE, but I'd bet that if he lined up at FB Herzlich can be better than Whitlock was at FB.

Herzlich is a big dude and is pretty powerful.
Now I get it. Aaron Judge wears #99  
bceagle05 : 5/9/2017 7:09 pm : link
because he's getting reps at defensive end.
Lead blocker  
old man : 5/9/2017 7:14 pm : link
on 3rd or 4th and a yard or less?
Maybe that  
old man : 5/9/2017 7:16 pm : link
was his talent all along?
Just a contingency for injury  
AcesUp : 5/9/2017 7:27 pm : link
I think the staff learned a lesson from last year, when we lost both potential FB/H-Backs to injury. I wouldn't read too much into it.
RE: D. Skinner was far more effective as a special teams player  
adamg : 5/9/2017 7:35 pm : link
In comment 13466909 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
than Herzlich last season. So was both Goodson and DeOssie.

If Herzlich wants to truly be valuable to the roster he should become a long snapper so we have a backup...


He has practiced long snapping. Pretty sure he's the current backup if DeOssie goes down.

I don't see why a lot of people are dogging him for learning new roles. You want guys to be doing this.
FB maybe but TE?  
BillT : 5/9/2017 7:50 pm : link
With all the new players at TE and upcoming guys like Adams it's not a spot that need another body.
Hes been misused  
spike : 5/9/2017 7:55 pm : link
All those years
RE: Herzlich  
MookGiants : 5/9/2017 7:57 pm : link
In comment 13466801 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
has played TE before, so not sure why the sudden need to change his jersey number to do so.


Doesn't need to report with #44
Bradshaws  
spike : 5/9/2017 8:00 pm : link
Number
Need to find a way to justify him  
Rflairr : 5/9/2017 8:08 pm : link
being on the roster.
RE: FB maybe but TE?  
81_Great_Dane : 5/9/2017 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13467019 BillT said:
Quote:
With all the new players at TE and upcoming guys like Adams it's not a spot that need another body.
Well, sometimes you want to run that two tight-end package in short-and-goal.

So Eli can run a naked bootleg.
That may be a solid sign that he is on very thin ice to make the team  
Matt M. : 5/9/2017 8:14 pm : link
They are already 4 deep at TE and have a FB. I can't see eny way he takes a spot over any of those 5.
He has always been good at the point of attack.  
chopperhatch : 5/9/2017 8:27 pm : link
I would be very curious to see how he woukd do pushing LBs out of the play given his background actually playing there.
Versatility  
SLIM_ : 5/9/2017 8:27 pm : link
Herzelich is a bottom of the roster guy. He is a core special teamer playing almost 400 snaps. He also is in goal line packages on defense. As another mentioned he is the backup long snapper. If he can serve a role in goal line offense, you could see the value in keeping him around especially as he obviously seems to be a good locker room presence.

You can expect to carry 3 tight ends and maybe 4 (Tye/LaCosse) if they have a good camp and depending on other players. Suppose they max and carry 4. Engram should not be a stationary tight end option in goal line situations. It is debatable that Tye/LaCosse should either. IF Ellison lines up at fullback, we Adams and maybe someone like Hart/Fluker. Maybe Herzlich provides greater versatility than them (able to go out for an occasional pass) or maybe he just is the backup to Ellison/Adams. Again a backup at many spots could be valuable.

Another perspective although they said tight ends but I believe that the Packers used the inverted wishbone fairly regularly. What about a package of Adams at tight end, Marshall,Beckham or Engram split wide with Ellison and Herzlich as double full backs in the backfield for some short yardage plays.

That said, you would hope that some of their younger LB's like Williams or Skinner can displace him off the roster. Keeping 6 LB's being Cassilas, Robinson, Kennard, Goodson, Herzlich and Thomas could be very problematic next year as everyone but Goodson would be a free agent.
Herz is definitely not  
Bill in TN : 5/9/2017 8:37 pm : link
the 53rd guy on the roster. As said before, he contributes in many ways. Backup LS to me is very important.
RE: I don't know if he makes the team  
Milton : 5/9/2017 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13466805 Anakim said:
Quote:
Seems like Calvin Munson is a younger version of him
How so?
Bill  
SLIM_ : 5/9/2017 9:25 pm : link
I'm one of the few on this post that sees his contribution but let's not overestimate his value. The guy is a core special teamer but had zero special teams tackles last year.

Looking at the roster, I would think there is room for either him or Thomas (if healthy and agrees to lower his salary). Thomas (when healthy) is a borderline starter. Herzlich should not see the field on defense. My thoughts are that Thomas is more valuable. I also think that Herzlich is a guy who if you cut, can pull him back later if injuries hit.
Herzlich is a JAG  
Torrag : 5/9/2017 11:17 pm : link
Why he's even still on this team is a mystery to every knowledgeable football fan.

Rumors of private /cough involvement with the Mara clan must be true.
He waited  
muhajir : 5/10/2017 12:31 am : link
Till we used a 1st rd pick on a te?
If Herzlich makes the team, he will dress when he's healthy.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/10/2017 5:05 am : link
He gets a shirt for special teams. So, the more positions he can play, the better-equipped the team will be to survive an in-game or short-term injury. That's a good thing. Nobody expects him to compete with Ellison.

Whether Mark Herzlich is a good use of a roster spot - no matter how many positions he learns - is a separate question. But if you're going to use space on a jackknife, he might as well be a versatile one.
we just acquired an All-Pro TE  
madgiantscow009 : 5/10/2017 5:19 am : link
Plot twist:

Herzlich.
He's not a jag  
Tuckrule : 5/10/2017 6:28 am : link
Plays specials and does a fine fine job. Rarely injured. Plays in goaline. Backup long snapper. I mean he's a versatile player some people just love to hate.
lacking that rare giant TE  
idiotsavant : 5/10/2017 8:28 am : link
(Sir Bill hoards them), Mark Herzlich is about exactly the same height and weight as a few of our other TE's.

I would say that in addition to toughness and willingness, a quality for in line blocking would be balance.

For example, Flowers, seems so far to be afraid to just plaster DE's, possibly reluctant to commit to a hard forward movement in hitting a player for fear of having that momentum being used against you if you cannot quickly reverse it.

I am optimistic in any case about Herz as an inline run blocking TE just based on his being an ornery veteran player.
They should be looking for ways to replace him not keep him.  
Marty in Albany : 5/10/2017 8:31 am : link
Find a young player who has the potential to start someday, not a guy who never will.
This isn't rocket science people  
rich in DC : 5/10/2017 8:35 am : link
Herz can look at the roster just like we can and recognize that in order to keep his spot, he will need to demonstrate that he can do the job of several people. Right now, he fills two spots- backup LB and specials coverage guy. However, they just brought in a UDFA who can do the same job for cheaper.

Thus, he needs to add more to his resume. If it works for him, that helps the Giants. If it doesn't and Munson catches coaches eyes in camp, Herz will be looking for a new job.
Marty describes my thoughts  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2017 8:38 am : link
exactly...
for me, if we run more outside zone and two TEs  
idiotsavant : 5/10/2017 8:41 am : link
and wanting the EE kid to be freed up from in line run blocking duties

-if outside zone runs become a staple, that is.

and Ellison having the right reputation for one side, as a run blocking TE that can be of use in outside zone runs, you want some competition for the other side.

so, Herz maybe competes with Adams for left TE in those sets, with Tye as FB, EE as HB/WR/TE and Lacosse (injured? or what?)

If EE and Tye are specialists, and if they want a regular two TE look, you need at least one additional player (3 in total, at least) to be able to justify having 2 as a regularly planned part of the playbook?

so, this may be about in line run blocking in outside zone, Herz vs Adams.
RE: RE: Herzlich  
Ron Johnson : 5/10/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13467046 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 13466801 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


has played TE before, so not sure why the sudden need to change his jersey number to do so.



Doesn't need to report with #44



thanks
i think its called the 12 and the 13  
idiotsavant : 5/10/2017 8:54 am : link
falcons use of 13 (in this case, Herz, Ellison, and EE)

or (Adams, Ellison and EE) giving Tye enough additional practice reps to see if, in fact he can, or cannot, play HB/FB as his shape would suggest.
I guess in an emergency it could help  
Jay on the Island : 5/10/2017 9:17 am : link
but Herzlich lost fluidity, speed, and athleticism from his battle with cancer. I can't see him getting any time at TE other than the preseason or if the Giants lose all their active TE's during a game.
rich in DC  
fkap : 5/10/2017 9:32 am : link
and a couple others for the win

most posters: get a grip.

you may not appreciate, or agree with, this approach, but you need a player or two who is a jack of all trades, master of none. you don't expect him to play a major role at TE, or LB, or LS, but he's active and available for spot duty at several areas. the alternative is to expand the roster (active or overall) and expand the cap, so that we have only masters at every position, including backups, and backup backups.

Whether he's the guy who you think should be that guy is another question entirely, but don't base your argument on him not being a master of any given trade. whoever is picked for the jack of all trades role will be a master of none.
I am fine with Herzlich playing the jack-of-all-trades guy  
Jimmy Googs : 5/10/2017 10:20 am : link
as long as he doesn't see the field much at all on defense...
its probably reasonable that Jerrel Adams comes in  
idiotsavant : 5/10/2017 10:39 am : link
heavier and becomes a better in line blocker by season start as well.

Back to Herz, he seemed fairly nifty at times with regards to vs the run 'fill a gap' which may bode well for his toughness and willingness to slam people as a blocking TE.

anything above that would be over-the-transom
So I guess Herzlich feels ....  
Beer Man : 5/10/2017 11:37 am : link
If you can't beat them, then join them.
Much ado about nothing.....  
Doomster : 5/10/2017 3:40 pm : link
He doesn't even make the team this year.....unless we start dropping like flies......
RE: Herz is definitely not  
Matt M. : 5/10/2017 3:50 pm : link
In comment 13467119 Bill in TN said:
Quote:
the 53rd guy on the roster. As said before, he contributes in many ways. Backup LS to me is very important.
Teams don't carry a guy as a back-up long snapper. Herzlich is a very good ST player. But, he is at or very near the bottom of this roster, as he doesn't contribute anywhere else. We can't carry 3 QBs, 4 TEs plus a FB (even 3 plus a FB might be pushing it), plus a long snapper, plus Harris who is solely a return guy at this point, plus Herzlich and still expect to fill out the rest of the roster.
RE: Need to find a way to justify him  
Ron Johnson 30 : 5/10/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13467074 Rflairr said:
Quote:
being on the roster.


He's a quality guy, great STer and he works his ass off. Those are the guys you win with
I love Herzlich's attitude  
lawguy9801 : 5/10/2017 5:38 pm : link
But for chrissakes, to continue to be on this roster, he must have compromising pictures of someone high up in the organization.
Matt  
fkap : 5/10/2017 5:47 pm : link
he's not going to make the team as a backup long snapper.

however, he might make the team as a backup long snapper, TE, LB, and ST player.

If he can be decent in one area (presumably ST), and then fill spot duty/emergency OK in several other areas, that makes him a viable option for the roster.

He probably doesn't knock a TE off the roster solely as a TE, but if he can come anywhere near the bottom TE, why would you keep the bottom TE when there's a guy who does several other duties?

versatility is what will keep him on the roster. that's where he will contribute 'somewhere else'. Maybe you hope and pray that he'll never be called upon to be that emergency guy, but you'll be hoping and praying that whoever fills that jack of all trades role will never be called upon. Or maybe he won't be good enough/versatile enough to make it. Maybe the bottom TE ( or any other backup that H is looking to fill in for) will prove to be more versatile and good enough at any given area and knock him off the roster. time will tell.
but, Matt,  
fkap : 5/10/2017 5:49 pm : link
he is indeed at the bottom of the roster. Maybe not 53, but not all that far from it.
He's gonna go both ways....  
HoustonGiant : 5/11/2017 12:38 pm : link
the Giants really are "progressive"....
RE: RE: Need to find a way to justify him  
Brown Recluse : 5/11/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13468202 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
In comment 13467074 Rflairr said:


Quote:


being on the roster.



He's a quality guy, great STer and he works his ass off. Those are the guys you win with


Sure, but they also have to be talented football players at the pro level. He's just not.

He knows, as does the Giants front office, that the moment he is cut from this roster - his NFL career is over. They are attempting to extend his career as long as they can.
maybe instead of  
mdc1 : 5/12/2017 1:36 pm : link
finding a role for him we should cut him and find someone with a consistent skill that can help the team.
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