|
|
|
| Quote: |
| After the Giants drafted Davis Webb in the third round of the NFL Draft, most people figured that the former Cal quarterback is now Eli Manning's successor. But Giants owner John Mara says pump the brakes on all that talk for just a minute. "I think it's a little premature to be anointing this guy as the heir apparent to Eli, he hasn't set foot on the field yet. But he's got a lot of talent and we're looking forward to seeing what we got when he gets here," Mara said on the Rich Eisen Show Tuesday. "As Bill Parcells used to say, let's not get his bust ready for Canton just yet." Of course, that's not going to stop most folks from assuming that when Manning does hang it up, Webb is the most likely guy to replace him. Because frankly, that's true - at least at this point. "Listen he's a talented guy, but let's let him get on the field, let's let him get on the field, let's let him play in the preseason and develop," Mara said. "If he's the successor, that's great. If not, we'll find somebody else." Mara was asked if he, being the owner, needed to sign off on the Giants selecting a quarterback. "Well I am in the room with (Jerry Reese) and I do give the final approval to everybody that we take," Mara said. "But I was hoping that we would take a quarterback at some point. I've always held the belief that you can never draft too many of them." |
Mara was asked if he, being the owner, needed to sign off on the Giants selecting a quarterback.
"Well I am in the room with (Jerry Reese) and I do give the final approval to everybody that we take," Mara said. "But I was hoping that we would take a quarterback at some point. I've always held the belief that you can never draft too many of them."
holy shit.
Mara was asked if he, being the owner, needed to sign off on the Giants selecting a quarterback.
"Well I am in the room with (Jerry Reese) and I do give the final approval to everybody that we take," Mara said. "But I was hoping that we would take a quarterback at some point. I've always held the belief that you can never draft too many of them."
You have been a poster here too long and should know and understand how the business side of this sport works by now. Shame on you for this response.
Hopefully it's at least 2 years before we need to even think about Eli's successor.
Good thing we are pumping the brakes on this master plan...
So all of you who have been blaming Jerry Reese for providing Tom Coughlin with poor talent, who do you think wins an argument between the two of them in John Mara's eyes?
p.s.--paging Shecky Greene....
Quote:
but him signing off on draft picks? Umm, no
Mara was asked if he, being the owner, needed to sign off on the Giants selecting a quarterback.
"Well I am in the room with (Jerry Reese) and I do give the final approval to everybody that we take," Mara said. "But I was hoping that we would take a quarterback at some point. I've always held the belief that you can never draft too many of them."
You have been a poster here too long and should know and understand how the business side of this sport works by now. Shame on you for this response.
Despite end of season comments, general or specific, John Mara has been relatively, if not, hands off, personnel-wise..Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder meddling has always been attributable to their lack of championships vis a vis personnel, albeit Jones has been more hands off of late, But John Mara has rarely been the interferer his Dad was for so long. A Lawyer, owner, league contributor sure, but he has really been hands off personnel-wise, imv
Seems to have worked pretty well for this franchise.
Seems to have worked pretty well for this franchise.
Since when does an owner (outside the usual suspects) sign off on DRAFT CHOICES? FA signings? Sure..The draft? Never knew about Mara had any input..
Other the fact he said you can never draft too many quarterbacks. I think QB and K/P are probably the only positions on the entire roster you can literally draft too many of.
Quote:
he's the owner, his answers arent going to be the greatest. No problem with anything he said.
Other the fact he said you can never draft too many quarterbacks. I think QB and K/P are probably the only positions on the entire roster you can literally draft too many of.
He's not the one drafting, that comment doesn't mean anything to me.
The only possible rationale to justify a Mara sign off is if those in the draft room were thinking of selecting someone with "character issues". Regardless of round or value, maybe your run a controversial pick by the owner.
However, you would think the Giants had already decided "this guy is off our board".
Now if the guys drops multiple rounds and he's still sitting there (e.g. Mixon, Cook), maybe the draft room "reconsiders".
I still have issues with Mara's statement.
Quote:
he's the owner, his answers arent going to be the greatest. No problem with anything he said.
Other the fact he said you can never draft too many quarterbacks. I think QB and K/P are probably the only positions on the entire roster you can literally draft too many of.
The QB comment is clearly hyperbole. He means that he is a proponent of continuing to look for talent at the position rather than ignoring it.
Holy shit, you guys need to be walked through everything.
Quote:
In comment 13467818 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he's the owner, his answers arent going to be the greatest. No problem with anything he said.
Other the fact he said you can never draft too many quarterbacks. I think QB and K/P are probably the only positions on the entire roster you can literally draft too many of.
He's not the one drafting, that comment doesn't mean anything to me.
It comes across as ignorant. regardless of who is actually drafting/approving draft picks and I'm not sure anyone on BBI can legitimately call BS when John Mara says he approves draft picks and we decide among us on here it's just character he gets to veto.
Exactly. If there's a really sketchy player who's extremely talented I'm guessing that's where Mara not wanting to have a POS on the team if he can avoid it will come into play.
Quote:
In comment 13467822 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13467818 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he's the owner, his answers arent going to be the greatest. No problem with anything he said.
Other the fact he said you can never draft too many quarterbacks. I think QB and K/P are probably the only positions on the entire roster you can literally draft too many of.
He's not the one drafting, that comment doesn't mean anything to me.
It comes across as ignorant. regardless of who is actually drafting/approving draft picks and I'm not sure anyone on BBI can legitimately call BS when John Mara says he approves draft picks and we decide among us on here it's just character he gets to veto.
I take his comments just like I do a coach's in a post game conference....with a grain of salt. If you want to hold him to what he said, go nuts. I personally think he's not that great about talking about these type of things and his words came out wrong.
Quote:
In comment 13467818 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he's the owner, his answers arent going to be the greatest. No problem with anything he said.
Other the fact he said you can never draft too many quarterbacks. I think QB and K/P are probably the only positions on the entire roster you can literally draft too many of.
The QB comment is clearly hyperbole. He means that he is a proponent of continuing to look for talent at the position rather than ignoring it.
Holy shit, you guys need to be walked through everything.
Sure, that's what he meant.
Does "approves the picks" mean the same thing as "makes the picks"?
They pass over his desk, why is this surprising?
You have no idea that is what he is talking about. You are inferring that...
Does "approves the picks" mean the same thing as "makes the picks"?
They pass over his desk, why is this surprising?
Doesn't approves mean he can reject a pick? My point was none of us knows you all act like you do, but none of you knows.
Holy shit.
See I can say it too.
Yeah, that's what I think he means. Sure. Are you always this intentionally obtuse?
I think he believes there is a chance of drafting a QB who is not necessarily going to be the successor to your incumbent in a relatively early round makes sense.
When there are tons of statistics that prove it does not.
Which is why the comment concerns me.
But you're too smart for that. Holy Shit.
See i Said it again.
Agree. And he probably just rubber stamps an approval for most of them. I seriously doubt he adds any relevant research to what the GM, coach and scouts have already done.
I'm sure he's not involved to the point where he could no longer blame his GM for the picks.
The only possible rationale to justify a Mara sign off is if those in the draft room were thinking of selecting someone with "character issues". Regardless of round or value, maybe your run a controversial pick by the owner.
However, you would think the Giants had already decided "this guy is off our board".
Now if the guys drops multiple rounds and he's still sitting there (e.g. Mixon, Cook), maybe the draft room "reconsiders".
I still have issues with Mara's statement.
He owns the team. He's in the room. I don't think it's at all odd that Reese would offer up - at a minimum - the courtesy of saying "he's our guy, you good with that, boss?" To which Mara probably nods and approves unless there is an absolute reason not to.
How many of you have been in a room with your boss and made a decision without giving them a courtesy vote? This is absolutely much ado about nothing.
LOL! I know right. Even if Mara having input into draft decisions IS the case... it's not like we've been the Browns the past decade.
Quote:
It's not as if he spent the last three months in Rio and is just getting up to speed on draft day. Anyone with character issues was discussed and "slotted" long before it comes time to make the pick. What Mara is talking about is deciding disputes between the coaches and the scouting department.
You have no idea that is what he is talking about. You are inferring that...
I think you shouldn't make much of Mara's "never have enough QBs" comment. Sounds to me like he was just talking out of his hat.
I can see Mara having input in very strange scenarios but I doubt he has anything to do with X's and O's.
So I think it's about resolution of conflict and owner approval of negotiated solutions, not about directing the traffic.
I imagine its just the same with Mara.
I imagine its just the same with Mara.
So I think it's about resolution of conflict and owner approval of negotiated solutions, not about directing the traffic.
Quote:
but on large enough projects he wants to take a quick look before sending off to a client, executive, whoever. There's a 99.9% chance he goes with what I have down but he may request a change or tweak.
I imagine its just the same with Mara.
You think John Mara has no idea how to do Jerry Reese's job? Not to mention that Chris Mara is also in the room.
Correct. I don't think John Mara is involved at all in extensive player scouting. I'm not saying he's a dumbass, but I really don't think his involvement has anything to do with what's on a scouting report and the ranking of our draft board.
Quote:
In comment 13467941 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but on large enough projects he wants to take a quick look before sending off to a client, executive, whoever. There's a 99.9% chance he goes with what I have down but he may request a change or tweak.
I imagine its just the same with Mara.
You think John Mara has no idea how to do Jerry Reese's job? Not to mention that Chris Mara is also in the room.
Correct. I don't think John Mara is involved at all in extensive player scouting. I'm not saying he's a dumbass, but I really don't think his involvement has anything to do with what's on a scouting report and the ranking of our draft board.
Quote:
In comment 13467945 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13467941 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but on large enough projects he wants to take a quick look before sending off to a client, executive, whoever. There's a 99.9% chance he goes with what I have down but he may request a change or tweak.
I imagine its just the same with Mara.
You think John Mara has no idea how to do Jerry Reese's job? Not to mention that Chris Mara is also in the room.
Correct. I don't think John Mara is involved at all in extensive player scouting. I'm not saying he's a dumbass, but I really don't think his involvement has anything to do with what's on a scouting report and the ranking of our draft board.
Nobody is saying he is writing scouting reports and putting together a draft board. But he knows football--it's his fucking life!--and he knows how to read a scouting report. He's going to have an opinion. And I'm not saying he's going to force his opinion down anyone's throat, but if Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese disagree on who to select and Mara agrees with Coughlin, what do you think he does?
yeah I don't think that's anything of note is my point. You get the time that's on the clock and a choice has to be made. If there's a huge divide I'm sure his choice will be the final say, but I guess that's something I would expect to happen anyway. This isn't BB/Kraft, and I don't think many other teams operate like the Patriots.
Likely he speaks of players issues/character concerns that may come up (Avery Moss). Mara is not a talent scout and he knows it.
I think he believes there is a chance of drafting a QB who is not necessarily going to be the successor to your incumbent in a relatively early round makes sense.
When there are tons of statistics that prove it does not.
Not true at all. Simply means that you draft QBs that look like they may have a shot at winning the job when the value is there.
A lot of people read way to much into this shit. The owner is not stupid.
Quote:
I think he believes there is a chance of drafting a QB who is not necessarily going to be the successor to your incumbent in a relatively early round makes sense.
When there are tons of statistics that prove it does not.
Not true at all. Simply means that you draft QBs that look like they may have a shot at winning the job when the value is there.
A lot of people read way to much into this shit. The owner is not stupid.
I have no idea of his intelligence. But I do know simply because he was born into owning an NFL franchise it doesn't make him smart. he may be a genius or he may be an idiot I have no idea and never claimed either.
and I don't think it's a major deal, but I've heard people say:
"you can never have enough too many rushers"
"you can never have too many weapons on offense"
I've even heard people say:
"you can never have too many DB's"
"you can never have too many quality offensive linemen"
I have never heard anyone say "you can never draft too many quarterbacks"
I find it an odd thing to say. The fact people feel the need to run to the defense of the owner and say what he meant or why it's not an odd thing to say is typical and not surprising.
I am not going to try and make assumptions or guesses about what exactly that meant and I've said it's not a huge deal or anything to have a prolonged debate or pissing match over. It's a strange thing to say IMO.
If others don't agree, good for you. That's your right.
If the quote was meant as literal:
1) The owner would be stupid, not a lawyer and esteemed officer on NFL committees.
2) The Giants would have drafted a QB almost yearly.
Quote:
I have never heard anyone say "you can never draft too many quarterbacks"
If the quote was meant as literal:
1) The owner would be stupid, not a lawyer and esteemed officer on NFL committees.
2) The Giants would have drafted a QB almost yearly.
When someone says you can never have too many pass rushers, do you think they mean that literally?
Obviously I did not think Mara meant it literally.
However, drafting QB's, especially with premium picks to hold clipboard, aka not the potential successor has not proven to be a fruitful strategy for anyone. Not even the aforementioned Patriots who can at least see the case with them rolling the dice on it because their roster has far less holes than the Giants.
the comment even figuratively like I obviously know he meant it, is not a logical one.
And I've never heard anyone else ever say it about the quarterback position.
...The comment even figuratively like I obviously know he meant it, is not a logical one.
And I've never heard anyone else ever say it about the quarterback position.
Nor have I. I wasn't there but I think it was a tongue-in-cheek comment for those asking QB drafting questions.
I'm thinking the Giants may feel Eli's window is shorter than what you and I think...
So now they have time to evaluate Webb before deciding weather or not to grab one of the several top QB guys next year. Drafting at #32 will cost a ton to trade down.
I don't disagree at all, I just think if you're the Giants, even with the low success rate for all 3rd round picks and Reese's 3rd round track record is abysmal, the Giants either should:
a) roll the dice on a player at a position that can help the Giants in 2017 or 2018 at the soonest
b) include the 3rd in a trade up in the first to target a player they covet
c) if you do draft a QB, draft one who has a chance at getting realistic playing time (like say the Browns, Jets, 49ers, or a handful of other teams can do until they get their shot at a franchise QB)
if Mara's comments were tongue in cheek, then bravo, well played. It's sort of funny, like Eli telling Dion you can't teach speed, if he was being serious (and I know he was not being literal) then again I don't agree.
Yeah because Two Superbowl MVPS runs are easy for third round QBs to do. yup sooner the better...for the fans of the rest of the league.
Quote:
The sooner he can take over the job the better. Transitions can be very painful. It would be great to have a Montana to Young or Favre to Rogers......
Yeah because Two Superbowl MVPS runs are easy for third round QBs to do. yup sooner the better...for the fans of the rest of the league.
No one's making those claims here.
There's nothing wrong with trying to flip QBs like houses; it's almost always a seller's market. The problem with the Giants doing it is they've been unable to improve their drafted QBs. Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, and Ryan Nassib weren't perfect...but they had ability entering the league. Nassib in particular was talked about as a possible first round pick.
None of those players got better once they got here. That might be an indictment of the coaches we've had here handling that position.
There's nothing wrong with trying to flip QBs like houses; it's almost always a seller's market. The problem with the Giants doing it is they've been unable to improve their drafted QBs. Andre Woodson, Rhett Bomar, and Ryan Nassib weren't perfect...but they had ability entering the league. Nassib in particular was talked about as a possible first round pick.
None of those players got better once they got here. That might be an indictment of the coaches we've had here handling that position.
Very few teams have made it work. Cassel was 10 years ago.
Since then (and before) the Patriots have tried multiple times and been unsuccessful.
And what are they sitting on with Garoppolo? He's a FA after the season. They'll need to franchise him (like they did with Cassel) and try and trade him into potentially one of the strongest QB classes in recent years.
And with Cassel don't forget the Patriots were "lucky" enough to have Brady knocked out for the season week 1 so Cassel could generate some value.
And with Garoppolo they were "lucky" enough to have Brady suspended so he got a couple starts.
Same with Kolb, and others who get flipped like Schaub.
In the Giants case are you really interested in investing a 3rd round pick to roll the dice that maybe Webb gets into a game before he hits FA so the Giants can trade him?
Seems like a better plan to either use the pick in a manner i mentioned before. And this doesn't even consider the Patriots could afford to invest a pick this way and the Giants really can't.
Quote:
The sooner he can take over the job the better. Transitions can be very painful. It would be great to have a Montana to Young or Favre to Rogers......
Yeah because Two Superbowl MVPS runs are easy for third round QBs to do. yup sooner the better...for the fans of the rest of the league.
I would suggest to you that if Webb is good enough to replace Manning sooner, rather than later, that that would be VERY good for the Giants
In some cases I have no issues with it, the 3rd round success rate overall is bad enough.
Quote:
*
LOL! I know right. Even if Mara having input into draft decisions IS the case... it's not like we've been the Browns the past decade.
Yup.
I imagine its just the same with Mara.
I suspect this is exactly correct. I think that a lot of people who are reading so much into this have careers that don't involve corporate governance structure. This really isn't odd. Mara gets the final blessing because it's his autograph on paper every other Thursday. Nothing in the team's recent history suggests that he exercises that in any way other than a courtesy, but he does get to have it.
I suspect not.
Just as Wellington Mara, as upset as he was about GY releasing Phil Simms, allowed it to happen.
I think the front office just gives the courtesy to the owner that this is the pick...you ok with it? Everyone on board?
I'm sure many times Mara said I like so and so, but I pay you guys to do this.......
I don't have a problem with him in on the discussion of who to pick.
You're a fan of the team, right? And presumably, you'd love to be in the war room, wouldn't you? But if you actually owned the team, you'd restrict yourself from that opportunity?
I know I wouldn't. And I don't know you at all, but I bet you wouldn't either.
If you don't think the guy is the heir apparent, then you don't waste a 3rd round pick on him. You select the QB about 3 rounds later if all you think the guy can be is a backup. Plain and simple.
The pats have taken several QBs in the Brady era in the early rounds (Jacoby Brisset, 2016 3rd; Jimmy Garropolo 2014 2nd; Ryan Mallet, 2011 3rd; Kevin O'Connell, 2008 3rd). You think they were convinced each one was the heir apparent or just trusting their board and taking a shot here and there because it makes sense to do so?
Quote:
but him signing off on draft picks? Umm, no
Mara was asked if he, being the owner, needed to sign off on the Giants selecting a quarterback.
"Well I am in the room with (Jerry Reese) and I do give the final approval to everybody that we take," Mara said. "But I was hoping that we would take a quarterback at some point. I've always held the belief that you can never draft too many of them."
You have been a poster here too long and should know and understand how the business side of this sport works by now. Shame on you for this response.
Lol@ shame on you.
As Always, Seeking enlightenment, Steve in NY.
True, but I'd venture to guess that Mara knows as much about College football as I do. He certainly doesn't scout the guys. Perhaps he enjoys college football on TV..That he might "sign off" on draft picks he knows little to nothing about is absurd..