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Raanan: ...Flowers bod looks leaner

froggerjoe : 5/12/2017 12:13 pm
Jordan Raanan ESPN Staff Writer

"OC Mike Sullivan says Ereck Flowers and Bobby Hart have spent lots of time at facility this offseason. Flowers' body looks leaner."

Hoping this is going to be the break out year for Flowers. He seems to be very committed this off-season.
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While the image of Jordan ogling linemen's bods is troubling...  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/12/2017 12:26 pm : link
...this could actually be very good news. Granted, Flowers's issues are mostly technique-related; but I think it's pretty reasonable to think that better conditioning and reduced "bad" weight could make it easier to clean up some of his technical sloppiness.
not to be a negative nancy  
TeamSchlitz1 : 5/12/2017 12:31 pm : link
but that has always been the wrap on him. He is a ridiculously hard worker, a gym-rat. The criticism is that he doesn't handle coaching direction well (as witnessed by his pass protection technique). I would be WAY more encouraged if they said he was running footwork drills all summer.
I thought his problems were with his hands, not his feet.  
Klaatu : 5/12/2017 12:35 pm : link
Heavy sigh.
RE: not to be a negative nancy  
Giantsfan79 : 5/12/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13469930 TeamSchlitz1 said:
Quote:
but that has always been the wrap on him. He is a ridiculously hard worker, a gym-rat. The criticism is that he doesn't handle coaching direction well (as witnessed by his pass protection technique). I would be WAY more encouraged if they said he was running footwork drills all summer.


I thought his problem was the opposite, that he didn't work hard on his conditioning and techniques because he was able to rely on his athletic ability through high school and college.
He's 22. Who cares if he's leaner?  
David B. : 5/12/2017 12:38 pm : link
He should have spent the offseason at LeCharles Bentley's O-Line Performance camp. Not just working out.
tell me about  
NoPeanutz : 5/12/2017 12:50 pm : link
the thumbs
RE: RE: not to be a negative nancy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/12/2017 12:53 pm : link
In comment 13469938 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 13469930 TeamSchlitz1 said:


Quote:


but that has always been the wrap on him. He is a ridiculously hard worker, a gym-rat. The criticism is that he doesn't handle coaching direction well (as witnessed by his pass protection technique). I would be WAY more encouraged if they said he was running footwork drills all summer.



I thought his problem was the opposite, that he didn't work hard on his conditioning and techniques because he was able to rely on his athletic ability through high school and college.


He was always billed as a workout freak. If anything he could spend less time powerlifting and more time on technique.
From what I heard  
gmen9892 : 5/12/2017 12:57 pm : link
It was always when Flowers was tired and got lazy that his technique did not hold up. It is easy to be on top of your game when its early and you are fresh, it's when your tired and exhausted that you let up a little bit and drop your hands or dont move your feet enough.

Regardless, I don't see how anyone could see this as bad news. If anything its good to see him dedicated. If I recall correctly, he was not doing this last season.
How does that improve his technique  
jeff57 : 5/12/2017 12:58 pm : link
?
when you are 20/21  
UConn4523 : 5/12/2017 1:12 pm : link
its possible you are still growing especially if you are a man of his size. Trying to deal with an NFL regime while also staying at a certain weight is probably a lot tougher then than it is now (assuming he's done filling out).

If he's getting leaner he will probably be less tired, which will help with focus and stamina.

How is this not a good thing?
RE: How does that improve his technique  
UConn4523 : 5/12/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13469962 jeff57 said:
Quote:
?


Is his technique always bad or does it get bad when he's tired? I think that's a legitimate question/concern. This can only help.
It probably with help with technique  
GuzzaBlue : 5/12/2017 1:26 pm : link
It could help him slide his feet quicker. Have fresher legs longer into the game. Help with his balance. Not saying it will turn around his game, but I struggle to see how this can't at the very least make him a bit quicker and more nimble.
I  
AcidTest : 5/12/2017 1:26 pm : link
bet he has a good year. He was coming on at the end of last season. McAdoo said he played well against GB.
Is this good news.. I suppose it positive regardless  
chuckydee9 : 5/12/2017 1:32 pm : link
but the problem with him was not Strength or conditioning.. He gave up lots of first quarter pressures.. He was also a hard worker and is a warrior who will play through injuries.. The knock on him is that he just doesn't grasp the technique.. and at times he looks lethargic and doesn't move his feet.. later part will improve with his conditioning..

I still think best move is to move him to RT or even better RG.. Fluker at RT and him at RG.. our run game is bound to be strong.. No need for a strong run blocker on LT side..
Awesome. The Men of MetLife calendar  
Diver_Down : 5/12/2017 1:34 pm : link
will be a sell-out.
you guys realize that "technique"  
UConn4523 : 5/12/2017 1:38 pm : link
isn't just a singular thing right? The guy has work to do in all phases of the game but if you don't think being quicker and more agile (while not losing strength) won't help him refine his technique than I'm not sure what's worth discussing at all when it comes to Flowers.
Geez...  
T-Bone : 5/12/2017 1:47 pm : link
the guy reportedly has been at the facility all off-season and some of you guys STILL aren't satisfied. If nothing more, at least he's showing that he cares.
RE: you guys realize that  
BigBlueShock : 5/12/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13470005 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
isn't just a singular thing right? The guy has work to do in all phases of the game but if you don't think being quicker and more agile (while not losing strength) won't help him refine his technique than I'm not sure what's worth discussing at all when it comes to Flowers.

Just ignore them. Look at the posters. It's the same cast of miserable characters. Whine, bitch, moan and complain about everything. Flowers is working hard in the offseason? Eh, let's still bitch about it. Always the same guys.
Not like it  
TeamSchlitz1 : 5/12/2017 2:15 pm : link
is the only dependent on how his season goes. My original point was simply that hI would have been encouraged if he was working out with an offensive line camp or other O-Lineman from NYG or NFL. THAT would be encouraging. But every offseason we hear about how dedicated to the gym he is and how he didn't go out at Miami, just lifted, etc. etc. And so far, that hasn't worked out that great for him at this level.

It certainly beats hearing that he reported to camp 20 lbs. overweight, I think we can all agree there.
Flowers  
GiantsLaw : 5/12/2017 2:19 pm : link
beginning to bloom.

(horrible I know)
The third season  
Jay on the Island : 5/12/2017 2:35 pm : link
is usually the year that offensive linemen take a big leap in their development. This is a big year for not just Flowers but also Richburg. Richburg was on his way to being a top 5 center two years ago. Hopefully with another offseason of hard work and now that he is 100% healthy Richburg should play up to his draft status. I am very excited about the offensive line depth. Hart, Jones, Bisnowaty, and Wheeler are all talented enough to start. Dunker is the wildcard here. He has the athletic ability and size to be a solid starting guard but he needs a year to improve his strength and improve his technique.
RE: The third season  
Jimmy Googs : 5/12/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13470062 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
I am very excited about the offensive line depth. Hart, Jones, Bisnowaty, and Wheeler are all talented enough to start.


maybe true, but not on good Offensive Lines...
RE: He's 22. Who cares if he's leaner?  
David in LA : 5/12/2017 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13469939 David B. said:
Quote:
He should have spent the offseason at LeCharles Bentley's O-Line Performance camp. Not just working out.


You do realize that camp is invite only, right?
Good thoughts  
SLIM_ : 5/12/2017 3:52 pm : link
- We have heard nothing negative about Flowers's work ethic. It is the opposite. He's a gym rat who plays hurt. This news that he looks leaner is in line with that.
- He is still young. Agewise- he could have been in this year's draft.
- Intelligence. Don't remember what his wonderlick was but I think I would remember if it was on the level as some of the high pick lineman this year (single digits).

Put that all together and there is reason to be optimistic that he could take to good coaching and reach 'average' this year. That would be a great improvement and along with skill position upgrades would point us in the way of having a top offense
Ah yes..  
ryanmkeane : 5/12/2017 3:52 pm : link
because everyone who doesn't attend LeCharles Bentley's camp is obviously too stupid to realize their potential and definitely not doing anything else on their own or another performance center to get better.
Thread  
ryanmkeane : 5/12/2017 3:53 pm : link
after thread on Flowers. Christ. He's coming up on his 3rd year and should be improving. If he doesn't this year and soon, it'll be time to switch things up. What else is there to say?
RE: Not like it  
yatqb : 5/12/2017 4:06 pm : link
In comment 13470047 TeamSchlitz1 said:
Quote:
is the only dependent on how his season goes. My original point was simply that hI would have been encouraged if he was working out with an offensive line camp or other O-Lineman from NYG or NFL. THAT would be encouraging. But every offseason we hear about how dedicated to the gym he is and how he didn't go out at Miami, just lifted, etc. etc. And so far, that hasn't worked out that great for him at this level.

It certainly beats hearing that he reported to camp 20 lbs. overweight, I think we can all agree there.


None of us have any idea of the types of work Flowers has put in this offseason. LeCharles Bentley isn't the only guy who can help an OL work on technique. Our S/C coach could very well be giving him work that will help him keep his weight back and balanced, which is what he needs. And he could be doing field drills to do the same, just like we saw Hart doing before last season.

One thing everyone seems to agree on is that the kid is a hard worker. Whether he can learn how to use his size and strength to consistent advantage remains to be seen.
Chad Wheeler is older than Flowers  
Heisenberg : 5/12/2017 4:16 pm : link
Bisnowaty is younger. Bobby Hart is younger than all three.

There's a chance that Hart and Flowers can be better. Time will tell.
Yes  
djm : 5/12/2017 8:15 pm : link
Let's question the importance of peak physical conditioning and better yet, let's complain about it. Some of you are truly special.
RE: I  
djm : 5/12/2017 8:16 pm : link
In comment 13469989 AcidTest said:
Quote:
bet he has a good year. He was coming on at the end of last season. McAdoo said he played well against GB.


Be careful, some here will accuse you of making shit up.
Giants are a better team the more their Tackles can improve  
Jimmy Googs : 5/12/2017 8:27 pm : link
so commitment and conditioning are all positive things to come from Flowers and Hart.

Hope they make strides everywhere and anywhere...

This is good news - there is nothing negative here  
PatersonPlank : 5/12/2017 11:17 pm : link
If he improves the Giants improve. He has the skills, if he keeps working hard he'll get there.
''Hoping this is going to be the break out year for Flowers...'  
Torrag : 5/12/2017 11:39 pm : link
He seems to be very committed this off-season.

He needed to be. In most statistical ways LT performance is evaluated he was the worst starter in the league last season. If he can become even an average rated player it would represent an important upgrade for this offense.

I wish him and us the best and this is a make or break year for him as a LT imo. That said I have my doubts he has the skillset needed to thrive there.
RE: While the image of Jordan ogling linemen's bods is troubling...  
Sasuke : 5/13/2017 4:18 am : link
In comment 13469926 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...this could actually be very good news. Granted, Flowers's issues are mostly technique-related; but I think it's pretty reasonable to think that better conditioning and reduced "bad" weight could make it easier to clean up some of his technical sloppiness.


Wrong!
becoming leaner or putting on more muscle does not help technique.
improving your techniques or making mental notes of when you are exhibiting poor technique is the best way to fix technique.
Flowers Technique  
Sasuke : 5/13/2017 4:21 am : link
Issues are not primarily with his kick slide or foot placements, while he definitely needs to work on that; its with his hand placement and his punch at the point of attack. he completely takes steps bak his his hands at his waist....thats piss poor.

cut the bullshit, he needs to truly improve on his technique not his physique.
Sasuke  
Milton : 5/13/2017 6:08 am : link
Of course Flowers needs to work on his technique and the only way to do that is through repetitions. But being leaner, quicker, and in better overall shape does make him a better football player even if he had perfect technique. And while I'm no expert, it seems to me that it's not that he doesn't know proper technique, but that he loses trust in it when he gets beat off the snap. He panics and reverts to bad habits.

So in that sense, being leaner and quicker of foot will perhaps lessen the amount of times he is beat off the snap and needs to trust and stick with his technique. It doesn't change the fact that he still needs to improve on his technique, but that only comes via repetitions in practice and preseason, not from diet and exercise. Still--being leaner and a little quicker should make him a better OL in general.
RE: Good thoughts  
FStubbs : 5/13/2017 7:36 am : link
In comment 13470138 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
- We have heard nothing negative about Flowers's work ethic. It is the opposite. He's a gym rat who plays hurt. This news that he looks leaner is in line with that.
- He is still young. Agewise- he could have been in this year's draft.
- Intelligence. Don't remember what his wonderlick was but I think I would remember if it was on the level as some of the high pick lineman this year (single digits).

Put that all together and there is reason to be optimistic that he could take to good coaching and reach 'average' this year. That would be a great improvement and along with skill position upgrades would point us in the way of having a top offense


I'm thinking that's why the team has had such a long leash with him. His draft status, his youth, and his work ethic. Coaches LOVE work ethic.

An average year out of Flowers, all else being equal, makes the offense incredibly dangerous.
I hope Flowers breaks out this season  
Jay on the Island : 5/13/2017 9:40 am : link
Not because it will have a profound impact on the Giants offense but because it may actually teach a few Giants fans to not write off a prospect just because they don't make an immediate impact like Shockey did.
RE: RE: While the image of Jordan ogling linemen's bods is troubling...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/13/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13470519 Sasuke said:
Quote:
In comment 13469926 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


...this could actually be very good news. Granted, Flowers's issues are mostly technique-related; but I think it's pretty reasonable to think that better conditioning and reduced "bad" weight could make it easier to clean up some of his technical sloppiness.



Wrong!
becoming leaner or putting on more muscle does not help technique.
improving your techniques or making mental notes of when you are exhibiting poor technique is the best way to fix technique.



When you're not in good condition, you get tired. When you get tired, your fundamentals slip. It's as much mental as it is physical.
It's performance, not looks, that count.....  
Doomster : 5/13/2017 10:26 am : link
We will know nothing until the 2/3 preseason game, in what we have in Flowers this upcoming season....
RE: It's performance, not looks, that count.....  
BigBlueShock : 5/13/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13470608 Doomster said:
Quote:
We will know nothing until the 2/3 preseason game, in what we have in Flowers this upcoming season....

So you think he's getting leaner and in better shape to look better? That's his goal?
RE: Geez...  
bradshaw44 : 5/13/2017 11:12 am : link
In comment 13470015 T-Bone said:
Quote:
the guy reportedly has been at the facility all off-season and some of you guys STILL aren't satisfied. If nothing more, at least he's showing that he cares.


This. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Does being  
XBRONX : 5/13/2017 11:35 am : link
leaner help keep your arms up?
RE: RE: Geez...  
montanagiant : 5/13/2017 11:54 am : link
In comment 13470632 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 13470015 T-Bone said:


Quote:


the guy reportedly has been at the facility all off-season and some of you guys STILL aren't satisfied. If nothing more, at least he's showing that he cares.



This. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Agree, Obviously, the team suggested he thin down a bit which means they see this as part of the solution. Don't see how any aspect of what he has done is considered wrong
RE: I hope Flowers breaks out this season  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/13/2017 11:56 am : link
In comment 13470583 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Not because it will have a profound impact on the Giants offense but because it may actually teach a few Giants fans to not write off a prospect just because they don't make an immediate impact like Shockey did.


Well, if Landon Collins didn't teach them a lesson nothing will.

I've been waiting for the threads titled "so, I was wrong about Landon Collins, and also I'm a giant douchenozzle", but to date nobody has ponied up.
RE: It's performance, not looks, that count.....  
UConn4523 : 5/13/2017 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13470608 Doomster said:
Quote:
We will know nothing until the 2/3 preseason game, in what we have in Flowers this upcoming season....


Great input. Remember when Landon Collins came into 2016 at a better weight than than he did in 2015? Was that to look good?
RE: RE: RE: While the image of Jordan ogling linemen's bods is troubling...  
David in LA : 5/13/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13470603 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13470519 Sasuke said:


Quote:


In comment 13469926 Big Blue Blogger said:


Quote:


...this could actually be very good news. Granted, Flowers's issues are mostly technique-related; but I think it's pretty reasonable to think that better conditioning and reduced "bad" weight could make it easier to clean up some of his technical sloppiness.



Wrong!
becoming leaner or putting on more muscle does not help technique.
improving your techniques or making mental notes of when you are exhibiting poor technique is the best way to fix technique.




When you're not in good condition, you get tired. When you get tired, your fundamentals slip. It's as much mental as it is physical.


This! You lose focus and concentration when fatigue sets in. Flowers being leaner doesn't mean he's going to be all pro this season, but it's a promising sign, and a step in the right direction. Now I'll let BBI carry on with the bitching.
Ereck Flowers and Bobby Hart are both just 23 years old  
GiantJake : 5/13/2017 1:17 pm : link
Adam Bisnowaty, Chad Wheeler, Forrest Lamp and Ryan Ramczyk are also 23 years old. Garrett Bolles is soon to be 25. All of the new draftees are going to have growing pains. They are going to need to learn, get stronger and change their bodies to adapt to the NFL. Like it or not, Flowers and Hart are two years ahead of these guys in their development. It's a good sign that they have been fixtures at the Giants complex in the off-season and that probably had a lot to do with the Giants reluctance to reach for an OT in the draft. They were patient and got value in Bisnowaty. Bisnowaty isn't ready to step right in, but he started for four years at Pitt and is further along in his development than Flowers and Hart were when drafted.
It helps to leaner:  
ReneNYG1 : 5/13/2017 3:58 pm : link
It helps to be leaner to not be lazy with technique,being in great shape helps alot.Is easier to focus on staying on point with what is taught if your in great shape.
Oh cut the bullshit  
Sasuke : 5/13/2017 4:03 pm : link
Flowers rarely if any puts his arms up and attacks the DE, this is nothing new as his draft profiles stated he is a poor technician who needs work, I don't want to hear crap about his conditioning and it being a reason he can't keep his hands up, as all players are evaluated on their conditioning pre start of training camp. He's lazy period and hard to coach hopefully he self corrects
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