NFT: NHL Conference Finals Thread

In comment 13479424 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think he's a product of the defense. Doesn't mean he can't have a great game or two - he's played well this post-season. Forsberg's great to watch. I thought for a while NAS would have been a great destination for Nash were the Rangers to trade him.

As a defenseman (only starting playing D senior year in HS and through college) I believe most goalies are a product of their D, but you cannot watch the playoffs this year and not be impressed with Rinne.

He's allowed more than 3 goals one time the entire playoffs with a .941 save %.

that's like:
2011 Tim Thomas
2012 Jonathan Quick
2001 Patrick Roy
and multiple years Dominik Hasek

I can't think of a better goalie performance (if he seals the deal and wins the cup) than those off the top of my head.

Won the Conn Smythe with a .945 sv%

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going back to a discussion we had a week or two ago, some evidence as to why I just don't understand the perception of PK as a defensive liability. From the six games against Anaheim:



He's been fantastic this postseason, impacting the game without gaudy point totals.

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is as good as it gets. And only Ellis was a first round pick of theirs (#11 overall). Smart trades and good scouting/development

In comment 13479747 Kyle in NY said:

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going back to a discussion we had a week or two ago, some evidence as to why I just don't understand the perception of PK as a defensive liability. From the six games against Anaheim: He's been fantastic this postseason, impacting the game without gaudy point totals.

I don't know what any of those stats mean, he gives up odd-man rushes every game or attempts offensive zone plays that lead to odd-man rushes, he turns the puck over in the defensive zone every game and he skates the puck out of the zone more than he should.

Plus, when talking PK Subban let's not pretend he doesn't have a reputation as an embellisher. any time MTL played the Rangers I heard it multiple times, every game, and he's already been fined for it these playoffs with NSH, but now all of a sudden on stigma-less Nashville he's beloved saint PK? Not part of the Canadian dive team? Sure.

he's a fantastic player and for the millionth time it was a bad trade I've lamented since they made it, but with the good comes the bad. If you don't see any of the things I'm talking about when you watch him play then we can agree to disagree.

In comment 13479749 Greg from LI said:

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and don't forget they traded Seth Jones for a player whose out for the playoffs (so they're not even getting a contribution from him).

Poile is a good GM.

But I'd honestly rather have Columbus D I think (for the long-term).

and I'm not commenting on the trade, just presenting some evidence for my case. Thought you might find it interesting.

I think you know what those numbers mean, but in case you really don't. Essentially they mean he's excellent at denying clean zone entries, a key driver for possession. He often either breaks the play up at the line or forces a dump in, a low precentage play for the offense. He allowed the fewest clean zone entries of any Nashville defensemen in that series, and as we've discussed, they have a lot of good defensemen.

Sure, he will turn the puck over trying to do too much at times. But I'll exchange a turnover here or there for the many great plays he'll make in between to drive possession. Look at the giveaway leaders in the league (linked below), there's a lot of really good players at the top of that list (Karlsson, Burns, Doughty, etc.). Because they constantly have the puck on their stick and they're trying to make plays happen as opposed to harmlessly clearing the puck like a Dan Girardi. For the record, Subban was 68th in giveaways this season
Link - ( New Window )

But not a lot behind them. Ryan Murray has been a disappointment. I think it's Nashville and Anaheim at the top of the defense rankings. Anaheim probably has more depth but they'll lose someone this offseason because they're locked into Bieksa

Either way, you're getting something good.

My eternal memory of David Poile comes from when he was the Caps' GM in the 80s and 90s. He used to do a little call-in show between periods on HTS Caps' broadcasts, and people would call in and just rip him to pieces. He was so mild-mannered about it while continually getting insulted. It was so awkward yet hilarious, and he subjected himself to it for years!

They can't keep all their defensemen. I'd love to snag Cody Manson.

every game in the series and almost every game of the playoffs, and Subban is IMO playing like the 3rd best defenseman on NSH.

Josi and Ellis both stand out to me as better all around than Subban.

Ekholm is not far behind Subban either. It is correct, NSH D is legit top 2 or 3 in the NHL. At least the top 4.

I like Subban, and I disagree with any metric than doesn't acknowledge his defensive shortcomings. I've watched him play for 6+ years almost every game and a lot of games this year.

In comment 13479803 Greg from LI said:

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They can't keep all their defensemen. I'd love to snag Cody Manson.

Yeah I'm all for this. Manson, Montour, or the dream scenario in Vatanen. Makes a lot of sense with their depth of RHD. Hopefully them falling short again and the expansion crunch they're facing has them looking to deal

seems to be leaning on the Ekholm/Subban pair more than Josi/Ellis lately

and Jones are both under 23 years old.

Heck Werenski is 19.

That alone makes them more valuable to me than NSH top 2, who are all mid to late 20's. And I love Seth Jones as the big two-way RD. Becoming such a rarity in the NHL. Plus, not going to lie I have an affinity for the American players, so I tend to rate them higher.

I like Gabriel Carlsson, another youngster to join their top 6 next year.

Jack Johnson isn't Jack Johnson from a few years ago, but at 30 or 31 he's still top 6 quality.

Either way I won't debate who is first or second or third, I like the way CBJ is building their D and I liked Johanssen, but I'd trade him for Seth Jones in a heartbeat. I think both sides got what they wanted in that trade.

from ANA I'd do it in a second.

he and Theodore both stood out to me. I like Theodore's size better.

Even Fowler, whose name is always on the block (even more since they signed Lindholm to the LT deal) looked better to me than in the past.

Which is fine, it's clearly the most difficult position to evaluate, experienced GMs still fail at it often. No one right way to do it

Like I don't think Jack Johnson was ever good. Obviously our opinions on PK differ in addition to a few others. Not a big deal, I thought some of those numbers from the Anaheim series would help you see the light though!

No disagreement on Werenski/Jones though. I'm fortunate to be in Columbus and get to see a good bit of those two. Probably the best pairing of U23 guys in the league. I don't think either side would reverse the Jones/Johansen trade which is pretty interesting. Don't often see that.

I think good enough in fact that he'll finally come off the trade block. He and Lindholm seem locked in there. Theodore is solid but we need RHD, so I'm more interested in the other 3. Manson has the size but Montour's skating ability stood out to me. Wonder if they'd be interested in Hayes

In comment 13479843 Kyle in NY said:

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I think good enough in fact that he'll finally come off the trade block. He and Lindholm seem locked in there. Theodore is solid but we need RHD, so I'm more interested in the other 3. Manson has the size but Montour's skating ability stood out to me. Wonder if they'd be interested in Hayes

Fowler is a UFA after the season, in an off-season where I'm pretty sure Shattenkirk is going to be massively overpaid I'd try and strike a deal/extension for Fowler.

but if I could get Montour or Theodore in that trade I'd prefer them, say the Ducks want to extend Fowler, but I think they'd cost more.

If I'm the Rangers I'd explore a Dougie Hamilton for Hayes or Trouba for Hayes trade.

Hamilton is under contract 4 more years and has no trade restrictions.

Problem is neither the Jets or Flames are loaded on the blue line like NSH and ANA. and both are well stocked at forward with high end talent.

Hard to believe Dougie Hamilton is still 23 years old. Seems like he's been in the league a long time already.

My comments about Jack Johnson were to the Bluejackets depth and he played well in the playoffs. I think he'll be out of their top 4 next year. and for top 6, he's good. He's only under contract one more year. I wonder if they even protect him.

In comment 13479560 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13479424 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I think he's a product of the defense. Doesn't mean he can't have a great game or two - he's played well this post-season. Forsberg's great to watch. I thought for a while NAS would have been a great destination for Nash were the Rangers to trade him. As a defenseman (only starting playing D senior year in HS and through college) I believe most goalies are a product of their D, but you cannot watch the playoffs this year and not be impressed with Rinne. He's allowed more than 3 goals one time the entire playoffs with a .941 save %. that's like: 2011 Tim Thomas 2012 Jonathan Quick 2001 Patrick Roy and multiple years Dominik Hasek I can't think of a better goalie performance (if he seals the deal and wins the cup) than those off the top of my head.

I did a poor job of explaining myself. I think Rinne is playing great outside of a few spots here and there. But I don't think he's up there with the guys you mentioned because his defense is that good. Tim Thomas, Hasek, etc.

I also think he's a bit more vulnerable than the guys you listed above. I can see the Pens roasting him. He over-commits a lot and leaves juicy rebounds.

In comment 13479803 Greg from LI said:

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They can't keep all their defensemen. I'd love to snag Cody Manson.

Josh - good job of keeping us on our toes.

I always get Josh Manson and Cody Franson mixed up for some reason.

Both teams had chances, both goalies made the saves. 0 - 0 after 1.

that was, quality all around, in the net, the d, some giveaways....
sheesh, Pens are so dangerous behind the net.

(Can see the Blueshirts applying some pressure by the forwards against these teams, but predominantly, can see their d-men collapsing--structure, said Sweden's winning team keeper Henrik--and just plain not able to keep pace, position, or puck control against either of these teams)

But somehow I see Pens' offensive firepower prevailing here

for MAB and the comment on "upstarts", Preds with the fewest points in regular season of any of the playoff teams, so, yeah.

McKayla??? What a pair, power boggling in that cleavage...but what brought that about??????????

the ref can't possibly have seen that puck

Daley pushed Anderson into the goal and then shot the puck in. I think it counts, but could go either way.

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thought it was going to be close, but slightly surprised.

Now, here is what I don't get, goalie interference is a penalty, if they disallow a goal because of goalie interference, why no penalty? if the contact was incidental then it should be a goal. NHL needs to fix this.

effort by Malkin there.

In comment 13480232 pjcas18 said:

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thought it was going to be close, but slightly surprised. Now, here is what I don't get, goalie interference is a penalty, if they disallow a goal because of goalie interference, why no penalty? if the contact was incidental then it should be a goal. NHL needs to fix this.

Yeah I thought the goal would stand too, but anything that hurts the Pens is fine with me! Malkin made Anderson and the defense look silly on his goal though.

made two saves on Crosby attempts that are normally goals. He's keeping it close, but Murray is picking up his D too.

No idea what Maata was trying to do on that TO, I think Brassard has a broken hand and couldn't handle the pass or it's a tap in goal.

and patience on the 5 on 3, OTT ties it up.

Still a min plus of PP time.

so far.

has been great. 2 minutes from a game 7.

Thursday. great game. Anderson was incredible.

Clearly Pitt is the better team now - further injuries to Karlsson, Brassard and a few others this round have just made it too tough to keep up with them. Credit to Pitt for tweaking and taking advantage of two season long weaknesses for Ottawa. They turned to the cycle game and on the forecheck they force the Ottawa D to reverse direction. That makes the slower Ottawa D even slower and has allowed Pitt to have incredible zone time after the third game. Ottawa had better structure last night but Pitt still had several great chances.

Anderson will have to be great again in game 7 for Ottawa to have a chance. Last change will be huge I expect, Ottawa has half a roster at half strength. Pittsburgh just has too many weapons to throw out there against us. But one game, if we score first you never know.

almost as impressive as his forehand-to backhand-to forehand to shovel it home just beyond Anderson's skate was his forechecking behind the net, corralling the puck, fending off the fierce check of ? as he bulled his way along the boards, maintains control against tight physical checking as he spins 180 to come out in front of the crease and then, as in one motion, reverses direction across the crease with his stick magic ....
a goal for the ages

Anderson's ability to see and position himself as the Pens, and esp. Crosby as pj noted above, were pretty darn good, but beyond that close-in pressure, Pens didn't seem to be able to go high for the corners. Anderson's glove is really quick in and around his body

Karlsson really hurting, his face after that uncalled cross-check against the far boards, ouch, series of attrition

one thing I've noticed about Predators, especially on their home ice, they are really, really good at using the boards in their passing game, all three zones

may not be quite the same since Karlsson is among the Sens injured, but the Penguins were playing without 5 regulars last night including their top 2 defensemen.

Letang
Schultz
Hornqvist
Kuhnacki
Ruhwedel

all out all contributors all season.

I get the Penguins are a better team all players being healthy, but I wouldn't use the injury card as a Senators fan.

In an NHL game 7 anyone can beat anyone.

I was waiting for the Pens to score with the goalie pulled.

I'm excited for a good game 7, and hopefully a win for Andy!!!

Only matter of factly - if Ottawa is to beat Pitt this series, I think we had to be quite a bit healthier than them. They are a more skilled team with lots of speed and two elite C's. Now that that edge we had early has evened out or reversed, especially with Karlsson even more banged up than the Rangers series, I see Pitt with a clear edge for game 7 at home. Daley has been a big boost to Pitt. They gets pucks out much easier now and Ottawa struggles to do the same. Ottawa hung on as much as they could last night with matchups and protecting some players - they can't really do that on the road.

But of course anything can happen in game 7, Anderson just stole game 6. It could happen again. But any objective viewer probably has Pitt as a big favorite Thursday night. They are a great team - well coached and talented, despite being a bunch of douches.

Btw- kudos to pj for still posting. After saying the Rangers were going to roll over Ottawa after game 3 in that series I figured you'd be a bit less opinionated... ;)

Enjoys jinxing the Rangers. Been doing it for years (he is also responsible for repeatedly having Staal on the ice late in games with leads). Rather than mocking him you should be thanking him. His comments turned the series

In comment 13480473 Andy in Halifax said:

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Only matter of factly - if Ottawa is to beat Pitt this series, I think we had to be quite a bit healthier than them. They are a more skilled team with lots of speed and two elite C's. Now that that edge we had early has evened out or reversed, especially with Karlsson even more banged up than the Rangers series, I see Pitt with a clear edge for game 7 at home. Daley has been a big boost to Pitt. They gets pucks out much easier now and Ottawa struggles to do the same. Ottawa hung on as much as they could last night with matchups and protecting some players - they can't really do that on the road. But of course anything can happen in game 7, Anderson just stole game 6. It could happen again. But any objective viewer probably has Pitt as a big favorite Thursday night. They are a great team - well coached and talented, despite being a bunch of douches. Btw- kudos to pj for still posting. After saying the Rangers were going to roll over Ottawa after game 3 in that series I figured you'd be a bit less opinionated... ;)

LOL, touché.

I'm the first to admit when I'm wrong, especially in sports, and it won't be the last time. I was wrong.

I don't know I've seen a team look so bad one game and good the next game as the Senators in these playoffs. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing.

Ottawa just looks spent to me. Happy to be wrong in this case. Hope I'm wrong again.

But I will disagree with you about looking so bad then turning it around the next game. This year has been unusual in that regard, it's like a theme of these payoffs or something. I am probably missing a few but off the top of my head:

SJ crushed Edmonton 7-0, then lost the next game and series.
Edmonton beat Anaheim 7-1, then lost game 7 two nights later
NYR whooped Ottawa 4-1 in games 3 and 4, then lost the next game and series.
Washington beat Wash 5-2 (was worse than that score), then wins game 7.
Pitt embarrasses Ottawa 7-0, Ottawa wins game 6.

Why can't the Sens sell out, by the way?

that has been us all season long. Win a bunch of close games, look good doing it, then forget how to play and get blown out. It's why I didn't really put much weight into the goal differential coming into the playoffs, and that theme continued each round. 1 or 2 stinkers a series, then play well for the rest.

They went up 2-0 in game 5 in the first 5 minutes.

And of course blew 3 goals worth of leads with 4 total minutes to go in two games.

Fuck hockey. Still bitter. Fuck AV for playing shitty vets and fuck sather for signing them in the first place

where a LOT of people (federal gov't employees) went without being paid for quite a while due to system error. Money is tight in Ottawa right now according to my friends still there.

It's been a long run for the Sens, and the CFL team had a long run as well. A lot of people just can't afford to go right now. $120 for the top row is a lot in Ottawa. That price usually gets you a great seat in that arena. The rink is also a disaster to get to through the week and the later starts make public transport an issue. It's weak - it should be sold out - but there are a lot of reasons why it's only 98% sold out for game 6 of the ECF.

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In comment 13480513 Andy in Halifax said:

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Ottawa just looks spent to me. Happy to be wrong in this case. Hope I'm wrong again. But I will disagree with you about looking so bad then turning it around the next game. This year has been unusual in that regard, it's like a theme of these payoffs or something. I am probably missing a few but off the top of my head: SJ crushed Edmonton 7-0, then lost the next game and series. Edmonton beat Anaheim 7-1, then lost game 7 two nights later NYR whooped Ottawa 4-1 in games 3 and 4, then lost the next game and series. Washington beat Wash 5-2 (was worse than that score), then wins game 7. Pitt embarrasses Ottawa 7-0, Ottawa wins game 6.

Ottawa was involved in more of those games than other teams it seems. Even in some of the games the Senators won in the Rangers series I don't think they looked that good, when you have two wins that rely on additional attackers to tie the game, that's some fortunate horsheshoe up your ass type salvaging of games. and I don't mean that to take credit away from the Senators, but the extra man goal is not something that happens every game.

I think the stats are something like pulling the goalie in the 90 second range you have a 15% chance of tying the game. The Rangers had it done to them I believe 3 times in 12 games.