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Final 53 - What would be good signs?

Reale01 : 5/12/2017 2:31 pm
We know what we have to a large extent with the returning players from last year. Some of the young players from last year may improve. In general I prefer a young player with upside over a known JAG player.

If two of Wheeler, Dunker, and Bisnowity make the team over Jones, Gettis it would be a good sign that the OL was better.

If Johnson and/or Moore make the team it might indicate an upgrade at Safety.

If they cut ties with Tye it would show that they are plaesed with Engram, Ellison, Adams.

Tomlinson starting and Jarron Jones beating out Bromley or Thomas would be a good sign.

Fluker earning a starting spot would be a good sign.

Keeping two QBs - Eli and Webb

Very Moss beating out someone would show he has something

Goodson earning the MLB spot.

....  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/12/2017 2:39 pm : link
I have a hard time seeing us keeping two QBs this year.
Eric  
Reale01 : 5/12/2017 2:47 pm : link
I agree, but if they did it would show that they have a lot of confidence in Webb is my point. I think that Eli, Webb, and Geno would be a decent sign, because Josh to me has very little chance of being more than JAG.
I'd  
AcidTest : 5/12/2017 2:53 pm : link
be stunned if we only keep two QBs. Webb won't be ready for #2 duty until next year at the earliest.

Jones is the backup C, and looked good for the little time he played. Unless you want Jerry.

Wheeler has the best chance to make the 53 among the undrafted OL. He has the ability. It was injuries and off the field stuff that kept him from being drafted. Dunker needs a year on the PS, which is fine.

Jones is probably a PS player as well, although his enormous size gives him a chance a the 53. But his motivation has been questioned. He has a higher ceiling than Thomas or Bromley, but a lower floor, especially since he's a rookie. Remember also that the Giants kept Thomas on the 53 for weeks last year despite being sick, and he gave us some good snaps when he played.
I agree with keeping more than 2 QB's  
GuzzaBlue : 5/12/2017 3:01 pm : link
Webb, in almost all likelihood, will not be able to show he can fully backup Eli right from week 1. Even if he pans out to be great, it most likely will not be able to be seen with limited playing time in 4 preseason games. He'll have to split snaps with 3 others.

I'd rather not keep a FB and keep a 3rd QB. I think Ellison could be used as a hybrid TE/FB when needed.
My somewhat perverse answer  
njm : 5/12/2017 3:12 pm : link
Seeing a large number of our final cuts get signed by other teams.
Rahim Moore is no upgrade at Safety.  
Klaatu : 5/12/2017 3:16 pm : link
...
When BBI throws a fit...  
Dan in the Springs : 5/12/2017 3:20 pm : link
because everyone has at least one "favorite" that got cut. That would be a good sign.

When there is consensus on the final 53 the depth is usually not good. Would much rather go through the arguments in late August about who we should have kept than have it be quiet.
RE: When BBI throws a fit...  
njm : 5/12/2017 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13470099 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
because everyone has at least one "favorite" that got cut. That would be a good sign.

When there is consensus on the final 53 the depth is usually not good. Would much rather go through the arguments in late August about who we should have kept than have it be quiet.


LOL, Dan. And they will say: "Look who picked him up!"
Having Avery Moss  
mrvax : 5/12/2017 3:35 pm : link
replace OO would be a good sign.
I'd be okay with carrying only 2 QB's  
mavric : 5/12/2017 3:39 pm : link
because if Eli goes down, the season is over. Unless he's out for a couple of weeks mid-season and will come back. Either way, Geno isn't going to carry the team on his back in the absence of Eli. Might as well throw the kid into the fire and let him get knocked around and welcomed to the NFL.

I think it's crazy to think Geno (or Johnson) will step in and run the team as though we don't rely entirely on Eli.
Being injury free  
phil in arizona : 5/12/2017 3:45 pm : link
You'd like to be in a position where injuries don't factor into the decision making.
I doubt Gettis makes the team  
Jay on the Island : 5/12/2017 4:13 pm : link
Gettis is strictly a LG. His lack of versatility will be his downfall. Brett Jones played surprisingly well and should get better with experience. Hart can play both guard and RT so he will be a lock as will Bisnowaty. I hope they keep 4 backups and stick with Wheeler because he has a very nice upside.
No more Herzlich  
RobCarpenter : 5/12/2017 4:17 pm : link
Would be the best sign of all.
RE: I'd be okay with carrying only 2 QB's  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/12/2017 5:03 pm : link
In comment 13470122 mavric said:
Quote:

I think it's crazy to think Geno (or Johnson) will step in and run the team as though we don't rely entirely on Eli.


Who says anyone thinks that?

If Eli goes down, it probably means a lost season, but they will still need to play however many games are left. You can't just forfeit the year, and there's no reason to assume Webb would be ready to handle anything at this point.
RE: because if Eli goes down, the season is over  
Trainmaster : 5/12/2017 5:24 pm : link
Not necessarily.

An Eli injury (knock on wood) that extended several games to most of season would almost certainly mean "season over".

But if Eli were to be out for two "should be winnable games" (such as vs Rams and at 49ers in early November), a Geno Smith led team might still win both of those games. However, if those two games are Davis Webb's first two games, they are almost guaranteed losses.

You keep a veteran backup for a least 1/2 the season, likely the whole season this year.
I'd be very happy  
Earl the goat : 5/12/2017 5:58 pm : link
Not to see Tye Bromley and Gettis on this roster
A good sign would be as many of the Final 53  
Jimmy Googs : 5/12/2017 8:16 pm : link
make it on their merits versus injury.

Otherwise we get stuck with very marginal guys like Larry Donnell, Andrew Adams and Trevor Wade that become clear weaknesses when they get regular season snaps...
RE: RE: because if Eli goes down, the season is over  
GuzzaBlue : 5/15/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13470220 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Not necessarily.

An Eli injury (knock on wood) that extended several games to most of season would almost certainly mean "season over".

But if Eli were to be out for two "should be winnable games" (such as vs Rams and at 49ers in early November), a Geno Smith led team might still win both of those games. However, if those two games are Davis Webb's first two games, they are almost guaranteed losses.

You keep a veteran backup for a least 1/2 the season, likely the whole season this year.


^^This is exactly why you want 3 QB's. You could reason to have one less at a few other positions much easier.
What would be good signs?  
Torrag : 5/15/2017 7:33 pm : link
Herzlich being released. Might mean we've finally found enough competent linebackers to move on from this sled. Inspirational stories need an ending too and his is past it's expiration date by a couple of seasons.
Mark Herzlich played 14 defensive snaps last season  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/15/2017 7:51 pm : link
I think we can get past the need to see him jobless. He doesn't even play.
I think it's a good sign  
area junc : 5/17/2017 9:06 am : link
we are carrying 2 FBs again. (Jacob Huesman and Smith.)

Between having 2 capable TE's and a couple of FB's again, McAdoo shouldn't have to comically stay in the same formation 95% of the snaps.

In other words? No more excuses Ben. We need to see a full, comprehensive NFL-style offense that is difficult to prepare for.
RE: I'd  
SGMen : 5/17/2017 8:05 pm : link
In comment 13470075 AcidTest said:
Quote:
be stunned if we only keep two QBs. Webb won't be ready for #2 duty until next year at the earliest.

Jones is the backup C, and looked good for the little time he played. Unless you want Jerry.

Wheeler has the best chance to make the 53 among the undrafted OL. He has the ability. It was injuries and off the field stuff that kept him from being drafted. Dunker needs a year on the PS, which is fine.

Jones is probably a PS player as well, although his enormous size gives him a chance a the 53. But his motivation has been questioned. He has a higher ceiling than Thomas or Bromley, but a lower floor, especially since he's a rookie. Remember also that the Giants kept Thomas on the 53 for weeks last year despite being sick, and he gave us some good snaps when he played.
I would not be shocked if LB JT Thomas won the WLB position over J. Casillas again. So much of the NFL game is about health and JT is younger and healthy again so ??? Camp will be telling but we should have an overall veteran LB corps.

MLB Goodson, if he can plug the run as well if not better than Shepard along with improved coverage, well he'd make us a much better overall defense. Goodson is a natural leader & smart but didn't have a huge amount of college playing time so he had a learning curve. Lets hope he is the real deal.

Me, I'm hoping JT Thomas has his "career year"; Goodson is a stud 2nd year 2 down guy; and, Kennard is super solid again. Stay healthy, play well behind that DLine, and stuff that run game early. Most teams will likely be forced to throw on us in fourth quarters to catch up and win and if rested, this defense will feast.
Jacob  
XBRONX : 5/17/2017 8:15 pm : link
Huesman. LOL
XBRONX  
area junc : 5/17/2017 8:23 pm : link
i've never heard of him either but there are lots of no name FBs in the NFL. Huesman showed up here 216 lbs. and is now 240. FB is a simple position - it's the fact that either Huesman or Smith could credibly play the position so we can vary our personnel packages.
RE: XBRONX  
SGMen : 5/17/2017 11:31 pm : link
In comment 13474498 area junc said:
Quote:
i've never heard of him either but there are lots of no name FBs in the NFL. Huesman showed up here 216 lbs. and is now 240. FB is a simple position - it's the fact that either Huesman or Smith could credibly play the position so we can vary our personnel packages.
While I'd love to have a bona-fide full-back on the roster, I would not be shocked if we went with four TE's instead: Engram, Ellison, Tye and ??? We are deeper at TE than FB where those names are unproven.
RE: RE: XBRONX  
section125 : 5/17/2017 11:46 pm : link
In comment 13474728 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13474498 area junc said:


Quote:


i've never heard of him either but there are lots of no name FBs in the NFL. Huesman showed up here 216 lbs. and is now 240. FB is a simple position - it's the fact that either Huesman or Smith could credibly play the position so we can vary our personnel packages.

While I'd love to have a bona-fide full-back on the roster, I would not be shocked if we went with four TE's instead: Engram, Ellison, Tye and ??? We are deeper at TE than FB where those names are unproven.


Adams.......
RE: RE: RE: XBRONX  
SGMen : 5/18/2017 6:56 am : link
In comment 13474746 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13474728 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13474498 area junc said:


Quote:


i've never heard of him either but there are lots of no name FBs in the NFL. Huesman showed up here 216 lbs. and is now 240. FB is a simple position - it's the fact that either Huesman or Smith could credibly play the position so we can vary our personnel packages.

While I'd love to have a bona-fide full-back on the roster, I would not be shocked if we went with four TE's instead: Engram, Ellison, Tye and ??? We are deeper at TE than FB where those names are unproven.



Adams.......
Yes, Adams. I actually forgot his name. LOL. I still think W. Tye makes this team as he showed well late in the year and playoffs. I don't see us cutting a veteran like Ellison as he can block and knows the game. Adams was OK for a late round pick late last year when he had some opportunities. We have a potentially solid TE unit this year.

Now, good signs for the final 53 would include a return to health by FS D. Thompson AND M. Thompson, as I thought both showed potential and if healthy they could upgrade the position and speed. Same with SS N. Behre coming back strong. Or if we get another UDFA to stick over Behre and/or Thompson so be it...just as long as it is based on talent & upside over the veteran's injury history.

I honestly think a good sign for the final 53 would be for some UDFA OL's to stick based on talent & upside over guys like Gettis.

But most importantly, a good sign for the final 53 would be for a healthy bunch to stick, the best players, not guys who got a spot cause the veteran in front of them was hurt.
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