First, I believe we have the best defense in the NFC East now. Injuries are always a factor so you have to hope we get out of camp healthy and start the season healthy. My only concern was the loss of DT Hankins but am hoping the youth will step up and/or a veteran is still brought in before camp.
Second, Eli's window is now very short. I read some rumors where even Reese admitted that Eli's play went a bit south last year and I'm guessing "age" may have a bit more to do with it than our OL play. If Eli is in fact beginning his downward physical spiral, it makes it all the more imperative we make our run this year.
Third, I believe our offense will gel again this year. You have to believe that both OT Flowers and Hart will improve in year 3. They are both 23, I believe, so they were young NFL starters who needed work. I love the signing of Marshall and believe he has at least one more very good year left in his 33 year old body, certainly better than Cruz who was no threat.
Finally, I like this coaching staff. Just something feels right about this group. So many things have to break right to make a run but I think with another solid draft and off-season, we are on our way.
Thoughts? Holes?
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He did not look old to me last year, just bad at times. Tell me if I am wrong. Did anyone notice weak throws or another sign of age? I noticed frustration!
A friend of mine was watching footage from the 2011 season and then went right to watching footage from last year and he said the difference in arm strength was very noticeable to him.
I do, however, get the distinct impression that McAdoo is not a big Eli fan. Eli is built for a vertical play-action offense, which is not McAdoo's offense. And it was quite a damning statement he made a couple months ago when he questioned Eli's courage in the pocket.
If the rest of the offense stays relatively healthy, this year will be a big test for Eli, because the pieces are in place for a statistically huge year. Last year that was anything but the case, so he deserves a mulligan from a statistical point of view. As for arm strength and courage in the pocket, I can't claim to have noticed anything other than a QB without enough time to throw to receivers who aren't getting open.
p.s.--As has been said repeatedly, the playoff loss certainly wasn't on Eli. He looked plenty sharp that day.
I think with improved OL play and added weapons, Eli has a shot to have his best year under McAdoo and really make another SB run. Just stay healthy on offense and we should compete throughout the year.
Seems like a lot to ask this cadre to significantly improve their results with no premium talent added to the mix from last season.
And as others have mentioned we have an incredibly brutal schedule. 10 wins will be a very good result. We could be an improved team that misses out on a playoff spot if we drop a couple close games and don't win our division. The good news on this front is the Cowboys schedule is very difficult as well and they're the team we need to supplant atop the NFC East.
Defense: Safety
It was supposedly the one thing he's been working on, and everyone said it was noticeable how much zip he had.
I really don't see any difference in Manning, besides the fact he's got people in his face more often, and he's throwing more short stuff than before (offense philosophy).
Since 2011, I haven't really seen much of the unsinkable, comeback kid who led us to 2 titles in his first 7 full seasons.
IMO, his confidence was destroyed 2012-2013. Last year showed promise that he may be coming back around, but my dreams of him having a Tittle/Simms-like maturation haven't been realized - yet. I'm still waiting for that season where we see the INT numbers come way down.
Since 2011, I haven't really seen much of the unsinkable, comeback kid who led us to 2 titles in his first 7 full seasons.
IMO, his confidence was destroyed 2012-2013. Last year showed promise that he may be coming back around, but my dreams of him having a Tittle/Simms-like maturation haven't been realized - yet. I'm still waiting for that season where we see the INT numbers come way down.
Since 2011, I haven't really seen much of the unsinkable, comeback kid who led us to 2 titles in his first 7 full seasons.
IMO, his confidence was destroyed 2012-2013. Last year showed promise that he may be coming back around, but my dreams of him having a Tittle/Simms-like maturation haven't been realized - yet. I'm still waiting for that season where we see the INT numbers come way down.
I saw that guy in GB in the playoff game. Too bad the WR corp didn't play to hislevel.
Second, it is not like the rest of the League is just standing still. Two teams we played last year and were better than us (Pittsburgh and Green Bay) have been working to improve their teams. I don't see a drop off in Atlanta and NE is improved. I think the Raiders are a strong team.
I am not saying the Giants won't be competitive, they might be, but I still think they are a notch below the best teams and I am not sure they closed that gap much.
I am optimistic, but that is based on trajectory and outlook. I am tempering my expectations and hoping for the best.
Not many teams can say that. This team is loaded and definitely 1 of the best in the NFL. Just get Eli into the playoffs (and catch the ball)
I like a lot of the Giants proposed additions this year -- want to see them all spend some time together and see what emerges
my argument is the following for an improvement over last year -- if Tomlinson is a wash with Hankins -- and essentially the same Defense is returning -- and the Offense has been improved with the addition of Engram, Ellison, Marshall, Galman and possibly also with Fluker/Bisnowaty - and you also add a healthy Vereen
Then the Giants will have to be reckoned with
Special teams are a big question -- especially at kicker --
but there is reason enough to form a belief that the Giants have improved themselves
Second, it is not like the rest of the League is just standing still. Two teams we played last year and were better than us (Pittsburgh and Green Bay) have been working to improve their teams. I don't see a drop off in Atlanta and NE is improved. I think the Raiders are a strong team.
I am not saying the Giants won't be competitive, they might be, but I still think they are a notch below the best teams and I am not sure they closed that gap much.
I am optimistic, but that is based on trajectory and outlook. I am tempering my expectations and hoping for the best.
I think we had an all-time Giants off-season last year and this year was at least solid. Losing DT Hankins hurts but otherwise I think we did what we could.
But an injury to Eli or OBJ and this team will limp through the season. That is football and you can say the same thing about GreenBay, the Raiders, Dallas (Prescott), etc.
We get healthy and stay healthy through say a solid 3-0 start and I will really begin to believe. A good start is key cause we travel a lot during the year and will likely have a clunker or two away.
Googs -- not sure i agree with you -- better Offensive Tackle play will certainly improve the Giants -- but adding Engram, Marshall and Ellison represents improvements too
I'll say the since both Flowers and Hart have slimmed down some and are now in year #3 in the NFL and #2 under Solari they'll improve. By how much, well, that remains to be seen. Not sure whether Fluker will win RT either as that is a possiblity as well. We had no FB last year and no true blocking TE. I think Adams becomes our big blocking TE.
I do believe Pugh and Richburg, when healthy and on top of their game, can be standout. We just have to hope Flowers, Hart develop as does TE Adams and we may have enough blockin to be dangerous.
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but if we don't get better play out from our Offensive Tackles, we will not do better than last year.
Googs -- not sure i agree with you -- better Offensive Tackle play will certainly improve the Giants -- but adding Engram, Marshall and Ellison represents improvements too
I don't see it. See easily handled on these edges that Offense will continue to struggle (and be too inconsistent) unless there is some stability there. Add all the weapons you want...
This is pure instinct, gut talk from me here but I have to believe he improves his consistency. The guy is 23 and while people don't want to hear it, well it takes some guys longer to get it than others. He may not be an All-Pro at LT but I think he'll be a bit better and more reliable, especially in Year #2 with Solari.
Same goes for young 7th round pick RT B. Hart - he'll get a bit better in year 2 now that he has real game experience. Again, not an All-Pro but good enough to live with maybe.
I'm intrigued by this year's OL pick, Boswaty as well. He started at LT for I believe four years in college and fell in the draft. He may need a year of work but maybe he'll surprise and be a swing tackle.
Skill position players will help the OL because this is a short, quick hit passing game so there isn't as much pressure on this OL as there would have been on the Gillbride OL's where the deep ball was more prevalent.
We can use a healthy year and a big year from Pugh & Richburg both as they have solid technique. Lets see TE Adams and how he does blocking inline. Do we carry a FB or not? Lots of blocking questions but if healthy I see continuity alone improving the OL play.
So I thought last year's signings on defense coupled with an offense that had ranked 8th the year before would be enough to make a SB run. Close, but no cigar against better teams like GreenBay and ATL late (though we did not play them, they were good down the stretch..) and so forth.
So by SB run, I mean "do we have the talent base to realistically make a run?" - I say YES. The defense has a shot to be top 5 if healthy. The offense should once again be able to pass the ball very effectively. I also think our run game and short pass game to backs will be better this year than last as Jennings was clearly finished and Vereen was hurt.
Making predicitions is a "just for fun" thing since you have so so many variables from season to season; from injury to injury; from draftees to UDFA's, etc. But as of right now I do predict this team is BETTER talent wise than last year's group. 2017 or bust!
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but if we don't get better play out from our Offensive Tackles, we will not do better than last year.
Googs -- not sure i agree with you -- better Offensive Tackle play will certainly improve the Giants -- but adding Engram, Marshall and Ellison represents improvements too
Bottomline it starts up front..if it doesn't then those guys aren't going to perform or be productive as you are basing everything on.
Ok fails = whole offense fails..period.
Our DL should be strong and fairly deep, assuming #2 pick DT D. Tomlinson performs as a rookie. The kid is from a pro-style defense ALABAMA and is a fifth year guy so he is experienced. Will Bromley step up? Will OWA become an inside pass rusher with that first step of his? Hard to say though I wouldn't bet on it.
I truly believe that year #2 of Solari's OL play will see improvement. Continuity is on our side so we just need to stay healthy or hope RT Fluker surprises and wins the job outright. Or RT Hart surprises. LT Flowers must progress though and hold his own else our offense will be a bit more limited.
Bottomline it starts up front..if it doesn't then those guys aren't going to perform or be productive as you are basing everything on.
Ok fails = whole offense fails..period.
The only thing that puts a wrench in your theory -- is that in 2015 - with the same Offensive line as 2016 -- the Giants had one of their most productive offenses of the past ten years
So while I buy that a good offensive line can only help -- it does not have to be necessarily much better than it was in 2015 --
based on what I've been hearing, however:
- I believe Bisnatoway is going to be an improvement over Bobby Hart
- no-one really knows what Fluker represents at all - he came from a horrible offensive line - worse than the Giants - could he be an improvement over John Jerry?
- everyone here is down on Flowers - but I think he's under-rated, under-appreciated, and developing
- Both Pugh and Richburg are above average players -- are they going to be healthy? - that's what you need from them to see a decent season
it's possible to believe - given the above that there will be modest improvement from the Offensive line --
But also having line assistance from Ellison - has to help
Having two bigger targets out there has to help
Having Vereen back for dump offs has to help
Having a better TE corps in general has to help
Having a true power back has to help
Take/Get - one third of the above working out and you still have improvement on offense
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Bottomline it starts up front..if it doesn't then those guys aren't going to perform or be productive as you are basing everything on.
Ok fails = whole offense fails..period.
The only thing that puts a wrench in your theory -- is that in 2015 - with the same Offensive line as 2016 -- the Giants had one of their most productive offenses of the past ten years
So while I buy that a good offensive line can only help -- it does not have to be necessarily much better than it was in 2015 --
based on what I've been hearing, however:
- I believe Bisnatoway is going to be an improvement over Bobby Hart
- no-one really knows what Fluker represents at all - he came from a horrible offensive line - worse than the Giants - could he be an improvement over John Jerry?
- everyone here is down on Flowers - but I think he's under-rated, under-appreciated, and developing
- Both Pugh and Richburg are above average players -- are they going to be healthy? - that's what you need from them to see a decent season
it's possible to believe - given the above that there will be modest improvement from the Offensive line --
But also having line assistance from Ellison - has to help
Having two bigger targets out there has to help
Having Vereen back for dump offs has to help
Having a better TE corps in general has to help
Having a true power back has to help
Take/Get - one third of the above working out and you still have improvement on offense
I also like our RB corps better this year, if VEREEN is healthy. Last year, Jennings was old; Perkins was a rookie still learning; Vereen was playing hurt than IR'd; and Dwarka was hurt. We never really could get going with no blocking TE, FB or OT of merit coupled with poor runners.
Three turnovers by Giant offense, 2 fumbles by Eli as he was hit by free rushers, 3 sacks and awful 2 of 14 on 3rd down.
Sure the Giants won, because the Defense was fantastic and OBJ slipped free for a 61-yard catch & run TD.
I do agree the Offensive Tackles don't need to turn into Pro Bowlers for the Offense to be dangerous. But at the level they played that night (and all night), there is no way we are advancing any further...
Three turnovers by Giant offense, 2 fumbles by Eli as he was hit by free rushers, 3 sacks and awful 2 of 14 on 3rd down.
Sure the Giants won, because the Defense was fantastic and OBJ slipped free for a 61-yard catch & run TD.
I do agree the Offensive Tackles don't need to turn into Pro Bowlers for the Offense to be dangerous. But at the level they played that night (and all night), there is no way we are advancing any further...
My brother is a Dallas fan and he commented on the difference in the Dallas stud OL vs our porous OL.
Having said all that, you have to believe there is nothing but room for improvement. Get to "average" at OT and we'll be a superb offense. That is asking a lot, yes, but I do believe Flowers has the potential at least to get to average. Hart, well, he is physically limited. Maybe rookie OT Bisnotaway wins the RT job outright or RT Fluker. We'll see BUT there is nothing but upside I think. That is the key, HOPE. LOL.
its May 16th...
You are 100% correct that it's largely glossed over how bad our OT play was. It was minimized due to scheme and that seems like the plan again this year. Scary - because Rhett Ellison ain't saving what happened last year, and neither are bounce-back years from Pugh and Richburg.
Beat the Cowboys and the Packers in the playoffs.
Beat the Patriots, again, in the Super Bowl.
Beat the Cowboys and the Packers in the playoffs.
Beat the Patriots, again, in the Super Bowl.
Naahh, I'm tired of beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Let's beat the Ravens instead, get some payback for 35.
Again, I think our OL has nothing but upside given last year's performance. All we need is "average" from Flowers and Hart. That would be a big step up but not an unreasonable expectation for two 23 year old, 3rd year, 2nd year in Solari's system OT's. I have high hopes for uptick from both of them. Or maybe Fluker or our 6th round pick Bosinathaway steps up at RT.
We also need strong seasons from Pugh, Richburg on the inside. And some improved TE blocking would be nice as well.
Jennings - Perkins
Donnell / Tye - Ellison / Engram
this alone will transform this team into a SB contender
But the other NFCE team's players not only cannot repeat the performance they had from the year prior, they get worse.
I guess it just happens...
But the other NFCE team's players not only cannot repeat the performance they had from the year prior, they get worse.
I guess it just happens...
As for the other teams, I go by what my brother the big "Dallas Cowboy" fan says about them to me since he follows them. He admits the defense could take a hit.
I personally see the Eagles stepping up a bit. I also see the Skins falling off just a bit due to their off-season.
But as has been noted on other threads: an injury here or there with no depth can deplete even a good team. The Giants want to make a run this year, they have to get healthy and stay healthy. I think we are in better shape this year than last in that department.
But the other NFCE team's players not only cannot repeat the performance they had from the year prior, they get worse.
I guess it just happens...
In addition, all of our rookies are potential All-Pros, while every other team's rookies are, well, just rookies.
Jennings - Perkins
Donnell / Tye - Ellison / Engram
this alone will transform this team into a SB contender
One guy I'm keeping an eye on is TE Adams. He is another big body guy who may develop. It would be great to have four TE's: Ellison & Adams (blockers) and Engram & Tye (receivers). Not sure if we can carry four TE's though due to our need to carry 3 QB's. Just not sure yet.
But, as an example of unbridled optimism, the statement "year #2 in Solari's system will bring improvement (in the O-line)".
Why is that? What is so special about year 2 knowing that the group went backwards in year 1? Not a whole lot of changes made or proven talent brought in on the Oline to point to. Its not like we focused the draft picks on it. The trend could be worse as clearly several guys had arrows pointing down last year. Even if some new guys become starters, Olines need time to gel together...no? It could get worse.
Why even make a statement that just yearns for some level of support...
Jimmy Googs : 9:48 am : link : reply
by being "another year older" or in the "system for another year".
But the other NFCE team's players not only cannot repeat the performance they had from the year prior, they get worse.
I guess it just happens...
Despite them finishing 3rd or 4th more times in the past 15 years than 1st or 2nd in the division, they always seem to be called "the team to beat".
But, as an example of unbridled optimism, the statement "year #2 in Solari's system will bring improvement (in the O-line)".
Why is that? What is so special about year 2 knowing that the group went backwards in year 1? Not a whole lot of changes made or proven talent brought in on the Oline to point to. Its not like we focused the draft picks on it. The trend could be worse as clearly several guys had arrows pointing down last year. Even if some new guys become starters, Olines need time to gel together...no? It could get worse.
Why even make a statement that just yearns for some level of support...
There is no way to know right now whether this OL is "status quo" or will improve other than logical HOPE based on the factors of youth and 2nd year in system. But no sure thing.
I do believe we'll be better at blocking from the TE position and that will help. That one I'm a bit more sure of than the rest.
But then in another, you take the leap that our TE blocking will indeed improve, which I presume is b/c they signed Ellison.
I guess you can have it both ways...
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I always like how the Giant players get seemingly better
Jimmy Googs : 9:48 am : link : reply
by being "another year older" or in the "system for another year".
But the other NFCE team's players not only cannot repeat the performance they had from the year prior, they get worse.
I guess it just happens...
Despite them finishing 3rd or 4th more times in the past 15 years than 1st or 2nd in the division, they always seem to be called "the team to beat".
They are the team to beat, but only in merchandise sales.
But then in another, you take the leap that our TE blocking will indeed improve, which I presume is b/c they signed Ellison.
I guess you can have it both ways...
I think having Perkins/Vereen/Gallman with better motors and ability to jump/slash thru gaps and cutbacks versus Jennings will make the Oline look better. I think all 3 are better getting to the edge as well, so the combination of them and Ellison as typical blocking TE should be better together.
I think Fluker is actually a better Right Guard and/or Right Tackle than the guys we have there now. Not considerably better, but better so that should help.
I do not think Flowers and Hart are simply better because they are still young or because they are showing up in the gym more often. They have some big flaws in their games and they have to change the way they operate, otherwise they will could be out of the NFL altogether in 2 years...
I think having Perkins/Vereen/Gallman with better motors and ability to jump/slash thru gaps and cutbacks versus Jennings will make the Oline look better. I think all 3 are better getting to the edge as well, so the combination of them and Ellison as typical blocking TE should be better together.
I think Fluker is actually a better Right Guard and/or Right Tackle than the guys we have there now. Not considerably better, but better so that should help.
I do not think Flowers and Hart are simply better because they are still young or because they are showing up in the gym more often. They have some big flaws in their games and they have to change the way they operate, otherwise they will could be out of the NFL altogether in 2 years...
Again, we don't need All-Pro's or even Pro-Bowl alternate OT's but "average" would be more than enough in this quick hit offense. Flowers can be solid for 10 plays then completely miss so consistency and technique are his issues. He has physical power to be a superb run blocker.
If Fluker is a RT upgrade and Flowers improves we will be more than fine.
The safe bet is that, compared to 2016, the offense will be better and the defense will be worse. The big thing is I wouldn't assume the health that we had in 2016. Does that add up to 11-5 again? If I had to bet one way or the other I'd probably bet on the under, but it's close.
I will say I hate the idea of targeting a year to make a "run". How about the franchise puts something sustainable together that can string together 10+ win seasons? We've seen teams (not just the Patriots) do it in this era.
The safe bet is that, compared to 2016, the offense will be better and the defense will be worse. The big thing is I wouldn't assume the health that we had in 2016. Does that add up to 11-5 again? If I had to bet one way or the other I'd probably bet on the under, but it's close.
I will say I hate the idea of targeting a year to make a "run". How about the franchise puts something sustainable together that can string together 10+ win seasons? We've seen teams (not just the Patriots) do it in this era.
Last year I over-estimated WR V. Cruz, TE Tye, LT Flowers and our offense by a very wide margin. My optimism stemmed from our prior year overall offensive success but we didn't build on it.
Health is as you noted the key. If we had a healthy JPP and DRC for the Green Bay game who is to say the game may not have turned out differently? Injuries happen to all teams it is just where they hit that counts.
We lose say LB Casillas we'll live. We lose DT Snacks and we struggle with run defense up the middle. It is when you get hit with multiiple injuries at the same position that you really get decimated. So lets hope McAdoo's "easier style" camp couple with the new training regiment once again prove to keep us healthy through camp so we come out guns blazing and maybe a 4-0 type start.
My big thing with this year's team is I see redzone talented players on this roster: Marshall, Engram and now maybe even Tye, Adams, Perkins. We move the ball but don't score enough TD's. That will change this year so long as we stay healthy and get some improved play from our OT's.