If the Giants stay healthy will they have a dominant team

No guarantees even if everyone is healthy

a true SB run this year. We have enough talent if we stay healthy; the youth improve & get healthy (esp. FS D. Thompson who I think can make our DB group the NFL's best); and, if WR Marshall has one more 80-1000-8 type year left in him.

I hated losing big DT Hankins, especially at the price he left for this off-season. But we did draft an NFL ready run stuffing DT in round 2, Thompson from pro defense ALABAMA. I guess he could be the starter at some point of the season. I'm not sold on the combination of DT Bromley, DE/DT OWA just yet but maybe we'll get a veteran after June 1?

I also think first round pick TE Engram has superb middle-of-the-field ability which will create matchup nightmares for most teams.

I think the Eagles will improve but Dallas and Washington will both take small steps back. That leaves the NFC East wide open so as long as we stay healthy we should compete for the division crown and more.

Travel will make it a tough row this year but sometimes tough is good. Lets get into camp healthy; stay healthy through camp to build continuity; and start the season a healthy 4-0 or something like that. A great start will go a long way to carry us.

we are going to be GREAT. good chance this year IMO

second....webb is the FUTURE and i feel really good about it

Atlanta has a great offense....but defense don't scare anyone.

Dallas running game....but not much else. NO seems to going for a push. Carolina? Cardinals?

Green Bay is probably our toughest test.....but last year's defeat will have the Giants ready.

It's 53 guys working together, believing in one another, and understanding that the only thing that matters is how to contribute to the success of the team.

and I go back to Chuckin' Charlie Conerley.

A better front four (potentially) than Robestelli, Kat, Mo and Rosey.
The best secondary since Patton, lynch, Barnes, Nolan.
I believe Flowers and Richenberg will have better years.

My fears: My strong hunch is that Pugh gets injured and is lost for the year.
I'm not sold on our no.1 pick. Ellison, the maturation of Shepard and the sensational addition of Marshall should have been enough. Only one ball and I hate to see Shepard lose snaps. Additionally, I think it takes mature talent and vision to utilize that many stars at one time. And that's my real fear, I've seen nothing yet that convinces me Mac is a big time coach. I blame him (not Cruz) for the Miami trip, for a team that went dramatically backwards last year on offense, and for holding onto the clipboard (insecurity, lack of leadership?).
There's a wealth of folks who see the team up close an d personal and know much more than me that dispute those notions and feel he's tough and respected by both management and the players.
I'm sure they're right, I just want to be convinced and if so....this is a big time team.

with that oline and no run game..

of the 86 season . I think you might fit in pre-Plax 08 as well. Seriously look at the TOP differentials, 3rd Down conversion rates. rushing averages and yards per passing attempt up until Thanksgiving of that season.

Those are the only 2 times I remember the Giants as dominant . They were highly efficient in '90 but not dominant . I doubt very much that the Giants will dominate in '17. They will have to scratch and claw to go 4-2 in the division. That's for starters . I am generally optimistic . The roster has finally been upgraded after years of attenuation . They need to figure out how to win in Philadelphia . But dominate ? No, I don't think so.

when we have an O-line that is typically dominated...

In comment 13472418 RetroJint said:

Quote:

of the 86 season . I think you might fit in pre-Plax 08 as well. Seriously look at the TOP differentials, 3rd Down conversion rates. rushing averages and yards per passing attempt up until Thanksgiving of that season. Those are the only 2 times I remember the Giants as dominant . They were highly efficient in '90 but not dominant . I doubt very much that the Giants will dominate in '17. They will have to scratch and claw to go 4-2 in the division. That's for starters . I am generally optimistic . The roster has finally been upgraded after years of attenuation . They need to figure out how to win in Philadelphia . But dominate ? No, I don't think so.

The defense may be dominant. The offense has potential to at least be effective, maybe even return to top 10 with some luck.

Dominant, as in say a 14-2 type team that blows out lesser oposition, well probably not.

Our defense and our offense both have the ability to rank in the top 15. I don't think we are the "dominant" level yet but we have the potential to make a lot of noise.

guys on BBI and countless people will back that up. I dont know how to be excited for this season when your two starting offensive tackles are coming off a year where they might have been the worst tandem in professional football.

Basically, the 2017 season comes down to a couple of really bad players turning into really good players. Could it happen? Yup. Will it? Who the fuck knows?

In comment 13472444 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

guys on BBI and countless people will back that up. I dont know how to be excited for this season when your two starting offensive tackles are coming off a year where they might have been the worst tandem in professional football. Basically, the 2017 season comes down to a couple of really bad players turning into really good players. Could it happen? Yup. Will it? Who the fuck knows?

OT has the potential to be our achilles heal for sure. But given the underperformance of the two last year, all signs point up. Word is both Flowers and Hart have slimmed down some to help with quickness. This is year #2 of Solari. This is year #3 for both 23 year old Flowers and Hart.

I have to believe both are at least NFL "average" this year based on just development. It is just a gut instinct guess but unless they make it to at least "middle of the pack" this offense will struggle some despite skill position additions. Remember, we really didn't have any blocking TE's to help them last year but this year TE Adams should be improved and I'm not sure about Ellison.

TE Engram, Adams, Ellison and Tye? Will we carry four TE's if we carry 3 QB's? Camp will be telling.

OL and LB groups are very average and what about our running game. I have high hopes for Perkins but does the OL open up holes in the running games. This offense needs to be more balanced.Does Eli cut down on the turnovers???
We can be very good but I don't know about DOMINANT!!!

I don't know about dominant, though, but it's a nice thought.

In comment 13472478 Klaatu said:

Quote:

I don't know about dominant, though, but it's a nice thought.

The defense has the potential to be dominant. Our special teams are above average. Our passing game should return to top form.

This season may be about Eli being careful and hitting the talented "wide open" guy: TE Engram, RB Vereen, WR Marshall, developing RB Perkins may produce. We have many questions but I believe talent is there to POSSIBLY be dominant as a TEAM.

In comment 13472482 SGMen said:

Quote:

In comment 13472478 Klaatu said: Quote: I don't know about dominant, though, but it's a nice thought. The defense has the potential to be dominant. Our special teams are above average. Our passing game should return to top form. This season may be about Eli being careful and hitting the talented "wide open" guy: TE Engram, RB Vereen, WR Marshall, developing RB Perkins may produce. We have many questions but I believe talent is there to POSSIBLY be dominant as a TEAM.

The question isn't about talent - it's about health. One or two injuries to key players could derail the entire season, especially at positions where our depth is suspect.

..

In comment 13472494 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 13472482 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 13472478 Klaatu said: Quote: I don't know about dominant, though, but it's a nice thought. The defense has the potential to be dominant. Our special teams are above average. Our passing game should return to top form. This season may be about Eli being careful and hitting the talented "wide open" guy: TE Engram, RB Vereen, WR Marshall, developing RB Perkins may produce. We have many questions but I believe talent is there to POSSIBLY be dominant as a TEAM. The question isn't about talent - it's about health. One or two injuries to key players could derail the entire season, especially at positions where our depth is suspect.

Injuries "make or break" teams for sure. I mean, we lose Eli or OBJ or even Snacks and this team is in trouble.

The difference in talent for some positions isn't that dramatic but for others we have no true replacement of merit.

But I really believe so long as DT Tomlinson can play well this year; DT Bromley holds his own; DE/DT OWA finally shows his first step as an inside pass rusher; well, we'll have enough DL to be dominant once again and we are deeper this year, at least on paper.

In the secondary, if FS D. Thompson heals by camp and plays well again he is an upgrade over FS Admas, the UDFA who surprised last year and should be better this year.

We have potential to be DOMINANT on defense and even special teams maybe. On offense, I think we are a top 10 throwing team at least. Overall, barring injuries, we are the team to beat in the NFC East I think. I just don't see Dallas defense being as good this year but hey I could be wrong.

We had the same linebackkng group last year and the defense was very good. Linebackers aren't not a problem. They can run and cover and that's the scheme(casillas,Robinson) hopefully Goodson can step into the Sheppard role and that's the same defense as last season. Hank was good but nothing special very overhyped on bbi. He played alongside 3 prob
Bowlers Tomlinson imo will be an upgrade. Offensively another year for flowers and added competition is a good thing. I'm very optimistic

The 86 roster was pretty good

In comment 13472512 Tuckrule said:

Quote:

We had the same linebackkng group last year and the defense was very good. Linebackers aren't not a problem. They can run and cover and that's the scheme(casillas,Robinson) hopefully Goodson can step into the Sheppard role and that's the same defense as last season. Hank was good but nothing special very overhyped on bbi. He played alongside 3 prob Bowlers Tomlinson imo will be an upgrade. Offensively another year for flowers and added competition is a good thing. I'm very optimistic

If 2nd year LB Goodson is very good, an upgrade over Shepard, our LB corps should be better, deeper. At one point, JT Thomas was a starter for us but injuries hit. I wonder if he bounces back this year? Casillas is a steady though unspectacular guy.

This unit needs to stay healthy and understand Spags scheme better year 2. But Goodson is the key if he can stop the run and be a lesser liability in coverage than what we had last year.

And re-signing Robinson was big. I would not be surprised if we saw WLB Robinson, MLB Goodson in the starting lineup this year with Kennard.

I'm not as confident in Eli and the offense, but we do have the pieces to be a top tier team. Lets see how this one plays out....

of football - it's just a question of how many injuries and to which players. I like our roster and agree that it's good enough to contentd.

One or two major injuries, can derail this Giant train.....

The pieces are all there.....now, if they can only stay together.....

Yes, the OL is a huge question mark.....I hear a lot of BBI'ers stating, well, with Ellison, we can chip block Flower's guy to help him.....great....now tell me why we didn't do it last season? If a TE can't chip block, he shouldn't have been on the roster.....or is our TE coach, so inept, he can't teach chip blocking?

I think we will see a lot of two TE sets, especially in third and short situations.....Eli will have so many options on third down, this season, that he didn't have last year....This depends on Engram having an immediate impact in the passing game....

With more weapons, you have more options, and with more options, you make that defense do a lot of thinking, which is something they didn't have to do last year.....

I think this OL, should be a little better.....if it isn't, Solari wasn't the answer.....

I see Perkins and Vereen getting the bulk of the touches.....Gallman should be eased in during the season like Perkins last year....Blount would be a great veteran presence on this team.....Some guys on BBI wanted to trade for a mid 30's T, but want to back off on a guy, who still has the talent to make an impact on this team?

Marshall, if he still has the desire, and can stay healthy, will be a huge addition to this team, in the passing game, as well as the running game....

I see DC's having nightmares, thinking about OBj, Marshall, Engram doing seam routes, Shepard making catches he dropped last season, Ellison and Vereen slipping out for short passes.....I'm almost "Giddie-fored"!

As for the defense, you basically have 3 all pros in the DL....even an average DT, should be able to be inserted into this lineup and be ok....as for Tomlinson, I think he will take time, being a rotational player.....Bromley and Thomas, as of right now, are ahead of him on the depth chart....whether he becomes the second coming of Cofield, remains to be seen.....and who knows, someone may be cut to fill this need....

Linebacker is still the weakness of this team.....but whereas in the past, we had nothing, at least we have guys who can make a play, here and there.....not sold on Goodson until he actually shows something.....Kennard has never reached the potential we have envisioned for him....Robinson has to stay healthy....For every play Casillas makes, he seems to offset it with a poor one.....as for Thomas, another addition at linebacker that didn't pan out....

Our DB's are a huge strength, at the corner position......DRC, Jenkins and Apple.....can Apple take that next step, with a year's experience under his belt? The only problem is, can all 3 stay on the field? Because there is nothing behind them......the same for the safety position....Collins came out of nowhere, in his second season, but if he goes down there is nothing to replace him.....and we kind of lucked out at FS last season, that opposing offenses did not attack that position much, because when they did, they were successful.....the little time Thompson was out there, he showed he could make plays.....but, he was injured twice last season, and he still has not recovered fully, from his operation.....As for Adams, the guy has no football instincts, and is late to help out the corners, all the time.....

The third round pick of Webb, hopefully does not bite us in the ass.....a team that is playing for now, maybe should have gone for a FS/CB, in a draft that was rich with those types of players.....so we draft a guy, who will not contribute anything this season, and also may cost us an extra roster spot, if we have to keep 3 qb's.....Is he the future, or another Nassib mistake?

So yes, this team could be dominant, if the acquired players pan out, and our starters stay relatively healthy.....but the season can go south in a heartbeat, if the injury bug gets to us this season.......

I don't see how you can predict dominance at this stage of the game. I do think the offense will benefit by cutting bait with a few unproductive players like Jennings and Cruz and adding a dynamic kid like Engram, but if they continually lose the battle in the trenches it will be exceedingly difficult to win the war.

As for the defense, remaining healthy is paramount, especially for players whose pasts are checkered in that regard like Robinson and Kennard, DRC (to a lesser extent), and, most recently, Darian Thompson. Depth is still very, very suspect. Much will depend on how our rookies and second-year players perform.

that the running game was not bad once Perkins took over and got the majority of the touches. Jennings was the #1 problem with the running game last year.

hopefully Jenkins tiring legs were part of the reasoning behind the play calling %ages last year, favoring pass on 3rd and 4th downs, and red zone, and Perk and unit will give the coach reason to change those up a bit.

But we have yet to see a knowledgeable coach type chime in here with a thread in detail about specific types of run blocking, how those fit or don't fit the whole offense, and what to do next season.

That would be a worthwhile thread that would raise the quality of the read.

The Pats, Steelers, Packers and Falcons were better than us last year, and they have been working to make their teams better. We are not going to vault past them all.

I like the trajectory but let's keep it real. If certain roster moves play out, the Giants might be able to move up a notch ... that would be exciting. But they are right now trying to close a gap with the top teams...

is the Giants seem to enjoy their greatest triumphs when the division and schedule is at its toughest. NFC East wasn't so hot in the late 90s early 2000s and the Giants went nowhere. Mid to late 2000s the division perked up and the Giants won two titles. We know what they did in the 80s.

It won't be easy but the Giants are built to win. Take advantage. Get to January in one piece and make plays in the 4th quarter. There are a lot of play makers on this team.

the 86 and 90 teams were more talented.

This current team has a below average offensive line. Makes a big difference.

In comment 13472547 Keith said:

Quote:

that the running game was not bad once Perkins took over and got the majority of the touches. Jennings was the #1 problem with the running game last year.

Jennings was a shell of himself last year and lost that little bit of burst he couldn't afford to lose. He basically sucked though we continued to feed him due to the injuries to Vereen, Dwarka, etc.

I liked what I saw of Perkins and if the OL improves a little here and there along with TE blocking, our run game can at least be acceptable, middle of the pack. And I do believe we'll have a much better passing game this year than last along with redzone threats in Marshall & Engram (big bodies).

In comment 13472547 Keith said:

Quote:

that the running game was not bad once Perkins took over and got the majority of the touches. Jennings was the #1 problem with the running game last year.

Jennings was still getting the majority of carries in the second half of the year, although Perkins was catching up to him and clearly made more of his opportunities.

Still, I'm not sold on Perkins as an "every down" back, and I thought it was premature of McAdoo to anoint him the starter so quickly. Frankly, I'm looking forward to seeing what Wayne Gallman brings to the table.

In comment 13472712 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 13472547 Keith said: Quote: that the running game was not bad once Perkins took over and got the majority of the touches. Jennings was the #1 problem with the running game last year. Jennings was still getting the majority of carries in the second half of the year, although Perkins was catching up to him and clearly made more of his opportunities. Still, I'm not sold on Perkins as an "every down" back, and I thought it was premature of McAdoo to anoint him the starter so quickly. Frankly, I'm looking forward to seeing what Wayne Gallman brings to the table.

I like our rookie RB Gallman but until he puts on the pads and shows he can pick up a blitz we don't know what we have with him. I think Perkins is the starting RB but we'll see a lot Vereen as well. We have a lot of competition at RB which is great.

When Perkins took over, he ran very well. I think he averaged either close to or over 5 yards per carry. He was the main back, even if Jennings got more touches at some points. Perkins looked solid to me and made the Oline look much better than when Jennings was tip toeing at the line and losing a yard.

no excuses.

In comment 13472728 Keith said:

Quote:

When Perkins took over, he ran very well. I think he averaged either close to or over 5 yards per carry. He was the main back, even if Jennings got more touches at some points. Perkins looked solid to me and made the Oline look much better than when Jennings was tip toeing at the line and losing a yard.

Perkins average 4.2 ypc over the last eight games of the season, which is fine, and certainly better than Jennings' 3.6 ypc during those same games.

But McAdoo had the option of saying nothing, even if he was pressed on the subject. I suppose he did it to boost Perkins' confidence, but I still think it was premature.

In comment 13472737 Klaatu said:

Quote:

In comment 13472728 Keith said: Quote: When Perkins took over, he ran very well. I think he averaged either close to or over 5 yards per carry. He was the main back, even if Jennings got more touches at some points. Perkins looked solid to me and made the Oline look much better than when Jennings was tip toeing at the line and losing a yard. Perkins average 4.2 ypc over the last eight games of the season, which is fine, and certainly better than Jennings' 3.6 ypc during those same games. But McAdoo had the option of saying nothing, even if he was pressed on the subject. I suppose he did it to boost Perkins' confidence, but I still think it was premature.

He took over the starting job for the last month of the season(he didn't have double digit carries until december) and he averaged a shade under 4.5 YPC which is very solid. In comparison, Jennings averaged 3.3 for the season.

The Giants clearly like Perkins and seem comfortable going into the season with him as the starter and I support that. The running game looked decent when he took over. Jennings was the main problem.

In comment 13472752 Keith said:

Quote:

In comment 13472737 Klaatu said: Quote: In comment 13472728 Keith said: Quote: When Perkins took over, he ran very well. I think he averaged either close to or over 5 yards per carry. He was the main back, even if Jennings got more touches at some points. Perkins looked solid to me and made the Oline look much better than when Jennings was tip toeing at the line and losing a yard. Perkins average 4.2 ypc over the last eight games of the season, which is fine, and certainly better than Jennings' 3.6 ypc during those same games. But McAdoo had the option of saying nothing, even if he was pressed on the subject. I suppose he did it to boost Perkins' confidence, but I still think it was premature. He took over the starting job for the last month of the season(he didn't have double digit carries until december) and he averaged a shade under 4.5 YPC which is very solid. In comparison, Jennings averaged 3.3 for the season. The Giants clearly like Perkins and seem comfortable going into the season with him as the starter and I support that. The running game looked decent when he took over. Jennings was the main problem.

Perkins only had two starts - the last game of the season and the playoff game, but he did outplay Jennings. I'm glad the Giants finally cut bait with Jennings, as I said earlier (but then, I didn't like them signing him in the first place).

Now, I admit that my opinion of Perkins is probably colored by the fact that I thought (and still do think) that the Giants made a mistake by passing up Jordan Howard to draft Perkins (although they were probably put off by Howard's injury history). It's not that I think Perkins is bad - I don't. It's just that I thought Howard was better. And, as I also said, I'm anxious to see what Wayne Gallman brings to the table.

Howard certainly looks like a great back. I have confidence in Perkins. I liked what I saw and I think he's going to impress this season. Jennings made the whole offense look worse.

to "good". The harder jump, in my opinion, is to go from "good" to "elite/great/dominant" (or whatever term you want to use). They're not there yet. I look at this schedule for 2017 and I have a hard time seeing this team, which still has some warts, let's be honest, matching or eclipsing the 11 wins they banked last year. They're likely an improved team. Probably the best team in the division. I think 10 wins is a safe bet and a home game in the WC round. After that? We shall see. I'd be shocked if this group is in the running for a first round bye. The schedule makes that unlikely this year.

I think the 2008 team was the only dominant Giant team of the Eli era and I think that team was probably better than this team. Also I think this team needs to prove itself more before this conversation can be had. They had a nice season but a real ugly loss in the playoffs. Lets win a game in th playoffs before self congratulating the team.

Whats wrong with predictions or projecting an opinion??? We need to wait until they win a playoff game before we can ask if they WILL have a dominant team?

People point to the Giants holes, but what NFL team doesn't have holes? The Giants very well could be in the upper echelon of teams in the NFC and to be honest, they should be. It's all about Eli, IMO.

In comment 13472832 Keith said:

Quote:

Whats wrong with predictions or projecting an opinion??? We need to wait until they win a playoff game before we can ask if they WILL have a dominant team? People point to the Giants holes, but what NFL team doesn't have holes? The Giants very well could be in the upper echelon of teams in the NFC and to be honest, they should be. It's all about Eli, IMO.

Grow up

In comment 13472832 Keith said:

Quote:

Whats wrong with predictions or projecting an opinion??? We need to wait until they win a playoff game before we can ask if they WILL have a dominant team? People point to the Giants holes, but what NFL team doesn't have holes? The Giants very well could be in the upper echelon of teams in the NFC and to be honest, they should be. It's all about Eli, IMO.

I don't think it comes down to one person. I think Eli is just one cog in the overall wheel. We have to have good OL play so we can run the ball and pass protect, and our skill players need to step up. If that happens and if we can stay healthy, I think we can do some things with this talent on the roster.

In comment 13472962 AnishPatel said:

Quote:

In comment 13472832 Keith said: Quote: Whats wrong with predictions or projecting an opinion??? We need to wait until they win a playoff game before we can ask if they WILL have a dominant team? People point to the Giants holes, but what NFL team doesn't have holes? The Giants very well could be in the upper echelon of teams in the NFC and to be honest, they should be. It's all about Eli, IMO. I don't think it comes down to one person. I think Eli is just one cog in the overall wheel. We have to have good OL play so we can run the ball and pass protect, and our skill players need to step up. If that happens and if we can stay healthy, I think we can do some things with this talent on the roster.

Disagree. It all comes down to Eli, IMO. Last year he had a bad season. He had happy feet, no pocket presence, no ability to avoid a rush and seemed scared at times. I understand why, but he often made a bad play worse. The Oline isn't as bad as people are saying, IMO. We are good enough to run the ball sufficiently and we have some of the best skill players in the game. The defense will be dominant, IMO. Therefore, it all comes down to Eli. Another regression and we are in trouble. A bounce back year and we will make noise.

In comment 13473035 Keith said:

Quote:

In comment 13472962 AnishPatel said: Quote: In comment 13472832 Keith said: Quote: Whats wrong with predictions or projecting an opinion??? We need to wait until they win a playoff game before we can ask if they WILL have a dominant team? People point to the Giants holes, but what NFL team doesn't have holes? The Giants very well could be in the upper echelon of teams in the NFC and to be honest, they should be. It's all about Eli, IMO. I don't think it comes down to one person. I think Eli is just one cog in the overall wheel. We have to have good OL play so we can run the ball and pass protect, and our skill players need to step up. If that happens and if we can stay healthy, I think we can do some things with this talent on the roster. Disagree. It all comes down to Eli, IMO. Last year he had a bad season. He had happy feet, no pocket presence, no ability to avoid a rush and seemed scared at times. I understand why, but he often made a bad play worse. The Oline isn't as bad as people are saying, IMO. We are good enough to run the ball sufficiently and we have some of the best skill players in the game. The defense will be dominant, IMO. Therefore, it all comes down to Eli. Another regression and we are in trouble. A bounce back year and we will make noise.

How many passes did he drop in Green Bay?

1. He had a good game, but it was 1 game. The WR's let him down.

2. 2017 team is not the 2016 team. OBJ and Shep are a year older. Add Marshall. Add Ellison. Add Engram.

In comment 13473052 Keith said:

Quote:

1. He had a good game, but it was 1 game. The WR's let him down. 2. 2017 team is not the 2016 team. OBJ and Shep are a year older. Add Marshall. Add Ellison. Add Engram.

Considering how inept his supporting cast was throughout the year, I'd say Eli did fine. He wasn't the problem. Not even close.

This season, it will be up to those around him to elevate their games.

Eli was a problem last year and I think the team knows it. The skill players, outside of Jennings, were ok. Eli looked like rookie Eli with the happy feet.