I just said in the NBA thread that I'm ready to move past this franchise until they end up restoring some pride and respect in the league. Life is too short.
I have a lot of patience.. I am a Mets fan and I've never given up on them despite all the fucking bullshit I've had to deal with.
But the Knicks have been such a joke for so long that I honestly just keep losing more and more interest and at this point, it's better for me to just not even care. I'd love to see the Knicks be relevant and fun to watch again. But this team literally NEVER catches a break.
It's just a non-stop whirlwind of SHIT. I'm so tired of it.
The lakers and Celtics step in shit and win and win and win while some other stepped in shit franchise dominates because they just so happened to land that transcendent player. Rinse. Repeat.
The smug happy joyful look on magic's face says it all. That franchise has had things titled in its favor forever. They can make five shitty moves in a row but the NBA will always part its legs for the lakers and afford them another chance. And thanks again to the nets for giving the Celtics everything they need for two old farts.
Oh crap... I almost forgot the last time we picked 8th.
Marquese Chris
Stanley Johnson
Nik Stauskas
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Terrence Ross
Brandon Knight
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Joe Alexander
Brandan Wright
Rudy Gay
Channing Frye
Rafael Araujo
TJ Ford
Chris Wilcox
DeSagnia Diop
Jamal Crawford
Andre Miller
Larry Hughes
Adonal Foyle
Kerry Kittles
Shawn Respert
where I am just a basketball fan and no longer a Knicks fan. There's no fun rooting for this team.
Couldn't ever be a fan of another team but it's just hard to support a team with few likeable people, a history of losing, and possibly the worst ownership in sports.
Marquese Chris
Stanley Johnson
Nik Stauskas
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Terrence Ross
Brandon Knight
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Joe Alexander
Brandan Wright
Rudy Gay
Channing Frye
Rafael Araujo
TJ Ford
Chris Wilcox
DeSagnia Diop
Jamal Crawford
Andre Miller
Larry Hughes
Adonal Foyle
Kerry Kittles
Shawn Respert
Did nothing wrong down the stretch this season. They respected the game and played hard and won a few games. People get on the knicks for that but it's unfair. You can tank but you can't TANK and desicrate the game. Knicks do it right and still pay. Lakers sell out and can't lose. Fuck em.
What does that mean exactly? What did the knicks do to lose ground in the lottery? Oh that's right they actually played hard. So what are you talking about?
Did nothing wrong down the stretch this season. They respected the game and played hard and won a few games. People get on the knicks for that but it's unfair. You can tank but you can't TANK and desicrate the game. Knicks do it right and still pay. Lakers sell out and can't lose. Fuck em.
and even then they lost the 2md most gamdz and melo and kp didnt even plah
Franchise has been shit for 16 out of 17 years. What do you expect? Good thing they play in the Mecca of basketball and can attract all the great talent to come there as free agents...
Could be worse- could nets fans! Boston should be set for a decade if Ainge does this right.
Will trade Melo for either a player and or draft pick
Will trade Oquinn and Lee for picks
Will not resign Rose
KP and Phil will kiss and make up
Knicks will pick SURPRISE. Hamidu Diallo PG/SG
With their 8th pick
Will get cap space for next years FA and the rebuilding has begun
Once again Knick fans are being asked for patience
But the unathletic euro guy from Arizona. I can totally see Phil picking him. We would have the most unathletic front court in the NBA between willy zinger and euro from Arizona. I want smith or Isaac have to go for the upside.
I don't see what Dolan has to do with the Knicks getting the 8th pick
Franchise has been shit for 16 out of 17 years. What do you expect? Good thing they play in the Mecca of basketball and can attract all the great talent to come there as free agents...
Could be worse- could nets fans! Boston should be set for a decade if Ainge does this right.
Again it's not Dolan that's losing here it's the fans. Just stop with this crap.
The nets made their own bed with the dumbest trade in fifty years. I said that very day on a BBI thread and was mocked for overly blasting the trade. They get no sympathy from me.
Athletic for someone 7 foot 3 unfortunately that is saying much. I think I saw the back of porzingis jersey more then the front with all of the guys that went around him this year. I really don't trust Phil here. I am worried he will try to get cute with his stupid triangle.
Athletic for someone 7 foot 3 unfortunately that is saying much. I think I saw the back of porzingis jersey more then the front with all of the guys that went around him this year. I really don't trust Phil here. I am worried he will try to get cute with his stupid triangle.
KP I really hope he makes a big jump in 17-18. He gets out rebounded by guards. He is over 7 feet tall and can't even average 8 boards a game. That's a combination of athleticism, technique and hunger/ heart all failing.
I also think he's never hit a game winning shot. Granted, the team hasn't had too many wins...,
Maybe one year the Knicks will luck out in the lottery
And, in typical Knick fashion, it'll be in a year where there are no consensus "franchise type" players.
I've long ago come to the conclusion that I just very well might go through my lifetime and never witness a Knick championship. Game 7 in '94 might be the zenith of my NYK fandom.
And the Sixers will be an amazing team sooner rather than later
Meanwhile, the Knicks and the Nets will continue to toil in mediocrity
How are the Raptors getting better? They're about to overpay Kyle Lowry or even worse, lose him and be stuck in non-lottery/non-championship quicksand.
And I have to see the Sixers be a good team (or a healthy team) before I crown their asses.
Given that Boston will be loaded at guard with fultz or Ball if they don't trade the pick. Do you think Boston would trade Avery Bradley to Knicks for Melo given that he will be due a big contract after next year. If they don't signs big name free agent, then they will have cap space for Melo with some throw ins. I still think they need a guy besides isiah to ISO at end of games. You can match up small ball with crowder and Melo interchangeable at 3/4 during stretches. Would you do that if you were Knicks and then trade courtney lee for a pick.
Lakers picking second overall three years straight.
They just missed Anthony Towns and Simmons, now they miss Fultz but the consolation prize is just as good this time. Lonzo going to LA makes Lavar Ball look even smarter, best possible place to land for his brand by a mile.
Knicks don't have the luxury of comparing themselves to others.
And the Sixers will be an amazing team sooner rather than later
Meanwhile, the Knicks and the Nets will continue to toil in mediocrity
Mediocrity would be an improvement at this point. But you're right. In the NBA, it's actually ideal to be God fucking awful if you're not at that elite championship plateau. The Knicks are somewhere between where they need to be (god awful) and mediocre. In the NBA, that's the definition of NO HOPE, unfortunately.
The Knicks have sucked for years and will continue to suck because of bad luck and the teams that make great trades (like the Celtics did) are lucky and the rest cheat (Sixers). Hilarious - and I am a Knicks fan. The Knicks deserve to suck and will do nothing this summer to get better as they will either hold on to Melo or continue to destroy what little value he has left and then trade him for crap with bad contracts.
Meanwhile Phil Jackson is somewhere having a drink and not giving a shit about any of you.
I have a lot of patience.. I am a Mets fan and I've never given up on them despite all the fucking bullshit I've had to deal with.
But the Knicks have been such a joke for so long that I honestly just keep losing more and more interest and at this point, it's better for me to just not even care. I'd love to see the Knicks be relevant and fun to watch again. But this team literally NEVER catches a break.
It's just a non-stop whirlwind of SHIT. I'm so tired of it.
I agree. They are just so incredibly incompetent. It can be argued they are the worst franchise in all of sports.
The NBA doesn't care if the Knicks are any good, that much is clear. I hope Phil is not more interested in proving his philosophy then improving the Knicks, unfortunately we can't even be sure of that.
And in what world does the Sixers deserve the third pick? What are they going to do with either Jackson or Tatum?
At 8, you absolutely have to gamble on greatness with either Smith or Isaac, and I prefer Smith because of position. Frank is as uninspiring as they come. I am sick just thinking about Phil passing on Smith for Frank because he doesn't like flashy players with street games. Are we really knocking Smith's defense? Are Fultz or Ball better defensively? Are any of the guards in the league aside John Wall even adequate defensively?
Who would you take if the following are off the board:
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Tatum
Fox
Ntilikina
Isaac
dennis smith and i run to the podium
Jonathan WassermanVerified account @NBADraftWass
Jonathan Wasserman Retweeted Craig Erickson
If the Knicks are really putting stock into prospects' triangle fit, they probably won't like Smith, an iso/ball-screen ball-dominator.
Do you see the athletic ability or the ball skills to be anything more than an average lead guard?
Nobody knows what will happen after the workouts. What worries me is that everybody seems convinced Frank is the pick because he seems like a Phil's player.
Do you see the athletic ability or the ball skills to be anything more than an average lead guard?
Nobody knows what will happen after the workouts. What worries me is that everybody seems convinced Frank is the pick because he seems like a Phil's player.
actually the guy who scouted kp has been scoiting frank for awhile now...
frabk is 6 6 and is only 18, shoots 43 percent from 3 amd can defend 3 positions...
he may end up being a 2 guard but is that a bad thing? you get a starting 2 with playmaking potential at the 8th pick...
We'll probably still land Frank at 8 - isn't that who you wanted anyway?
The Rose and Chandler trades happened pre-draft, so hopefully we get another move this year that isn't a disaster. I'd love a late first. We need quantity now that we're not in the top three.
We'll probably still land Frank at 8 - isn't that who you wanted anyway?
The Rose and Chandler trades happened pre-draft, so hopefully we get another move this year that isn't a disaster. I'd love a late first. We need quantity now that we're not in the top three.
got to trade lee and oquinn for late firsts, a lot of depth to this draft
I also don't get the notion that Smith isn't worth consideration
Because he reminds people of Francis, Davis, Marbury or even Rose? Really? You'd turn down the chance to get that caliber of offensive talent at 8?
KP fell into Phil's lap I think. If the Knicks had the third pick and had gone with KP instead of Oak, then I'd be more impressed with Phil.
Like I said, in this city there is nothing more miserable then being a Knicks fan. The city is unreal when the Knicks are good. That day may never come at the current going rate.
Because he reminds people of Francis, Davis, Marbury or even Rose? Really? You'd turn down the chance to get that caliber of offensive talent at 8?
KP fell into Phil's lap I think. If the Knicks had the third pick and had gone with KP instead of Oak, then I'd be more impressed with Phil.
Like I said, in this city there is nothing more miserable then being a Knicks fan. The city is unreal when the Knicks are good. That day may never come at the current going rate.
Monk will be controversial, divisive player at 8. I still think he has a better dribble-drive game than he showed at UK, but prob have to admit that he is definitely not a playmaker.
The Cincinnati Reds could've drafted Jeter one spot ahead of NYY.
i would be ok with monk, but he probably is not a fit, if sixers did not get top 3 i woukd of said look for sixers to take him but they would be stupid to take him that high
The Sixers actually received the 3rd pick via pick swap with the Kings
I just want Phil to be open minded about whom he drafts and the philosophy of building the team. I am a big Melo basher, but I absolutely detest how Phil has treated him.
RE: The Cincinnati Reds could've drafted Jeter one spot ahead of NYY.
Not one instance of even a little lottery luck in over 30 years. Not. Once.
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
Not one instance of even a little lottery luck in over 30 years. Not. Once.
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
absokute bullshit, knicks lost the 2md amount of games out of anyone after their 14 and 10 start, melo and kp barely played...
they had ron baker justin holiday sash vujacic and maurice ndour on the couet to end games...
there is nothing more a team can do, they played dleague players down the stretch
What does that mean exactly? What did the knicks do to lose ground in the lottery? Oh that's right they actually played hard. So what are you talking about?
It's simple math. The system isn't built to reward actually playing hard after you've already gotten your ass kicked. Pride for the sake of pride (and season tickets) gets you exactly what we got. There's no justifying a willing refusal to play by the rules as they're constructed.
The league would be a lot more interesting if they changed up the system of determining draft order completely.
If they took lets say the eight teams with the worst records with two weeks to go and let them have their own "playoff run" for draft order it would be exciting for their fans and eliminate completely teams tanking. Teams would be fighting to win the first pick, second, etc.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
Maurice Ndour won 2 of those last 4 games on his own (CHI & GW shot vs. PHI). There's no one down the bench past him.
that they'd fall in a 5th lottery. Given that the odds of moving up are better. It's crazy. If we get Frenchy, I'm fine, though. They still need to get more picks.
The league would be a lot more interesting if they changed up the system of determining draft order completely.
If they took lets say the eight teams with the worst records with two weeks to go and let them have their own "playoff run" for draft order it would be exciting for their fans and eliminate completely teams tanking. Teams would be fighting to win the first pick, second, etc.
That's actually a pretty great idea. Let the draft order of the top 5 picks be decided by the W-L record of the worst 5 teams in their last 15 games. Highest W-L record in those games picks first, etc. This way you could actually root for you team to win down the stretch.
RE: Maybe one year the Knicks will luck out in the lottery
And, in typical Knick fashion, it'll be in a year where there are no consensus "franchise type" players.
I've long ago come to the conclusion that I just very well might go through my lifetime and never witness a Knick championship. Game 7 in '94 might be the zenith of my NYK fandom.
At least the 99 playoff run was amazing. 2 of the best moments in my life as a sports fan were Houston's floater and LJ's 4 point play.
I agree the Knicks should have done more to tank by buying out Rose and shutting Melo completely down. Melo himself contributed to a few wins down the stretch. But they were still playing some complete scrubs. I would just feel better if they were picking 5th or 6th.
Look at the Lakers. They tried to tank. They were playing Artest big minutes. But winning those meaningless games actually saved them. If they were in the suns postion they would have lost their picks. It's just luck of the draw.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
They will have traded 2014 #6 pick, 2016 #3, 2017#1 and next years pick which is a lock to be top 5. That could be the foundation of a team for over a decade. Worst trade in NBA history.
1st, I kind of regret my drive by potshot in this thread, because it comes across as a dig vs. loyal Knicks' fans, and that was not my intention at all: it was intended as a shot at the way this franchise has been run, more on that below, so I apologize for appearing to kick the dog while it is down--to the fans, but not to the franchise
2nd, my crack wasn't a dig at the insufficiency of the Knicks' tanking, or at how they suck so much across the board that they can't even tank properly, albeit I'm aware at how intensely some regular posters either envy or decry full tank mode: the NBA's system is rotten in that draft status is so easily manipulated and the consequences thereof so magnified because with only five on the playing surface, draft golazzos are so outsized in their impact on franchises;
3rd, to the question, "what do you mean (re. Knicks did not try to tank the season)? re. karma is a bitch, for a franchise that:
- is led by an arrogant owner who ignores and insults the fan base by his lack of accountability;
- empowered and shielded Isiah Thomas, both while in and out of office;
- empowered him and others in a culture of harassment and undermining professionals;
- caved to Melo's demand to be traded in season instead of post-season, sapping the Knicks of future pieces with which to build or trade to build
- allowed Melo to dictate ownership decisions on coaching selection
- hiring a neophyte to be GM three years ago in obscene contracts and renewal
- allowed Melo to dictate a no-trade at this stage of his career
- while plainly in rebuilding mode, or what should have been rebuilding mode, signed Rose and Noah
Always the quick and expensive fixes, decisions that displayed lack of savvy and patience. I don't buy for a minute that Knicks' fans would not put up with re-building if it meant an eye for talent, putting pieces together that fit, not being wed to a system that meant discarding talented players.
said if the right offer came they woupd consider moving down, says the team has its bigs, now time to get some guards and wing players, also said it is time for more youth...
i am good with either frank or smith at 8, 2 completely different players
of course i really wanted Fultz or Fox, but i dont think Frank or Smith are bad picks. At least on paper this is a pretty good lottery, i can think of a few years lately where the 8th pick would have felt like 17.
of course i really wanted Fultz or Fox, but i dont think Frank or Smith are bad picks. At least on paper this is a pretty good lottery, i can think of a few years lately where the 8th pick would have felt like 17.
at the start of last year smith was considered a top 5 pick, then the dysfunction at nc state happened and no one is talking about him..
has a horse shoe up their ass (NYK has a hand grenade).
LAL will probably land Paul George (for Russell, Randle).
If not, Melo + Lee for Deng (gotta eat some salary to effectively turn the page from Melo) + Clarkson + Randle. Plus, I think Deng offers some value as a 12 minute a night stretch 4.
Skill set wise, he is universally billed as having elite athleticism, adequate size (not necessarily long, but a solid 6'2"), a developing J, and a good passer/defender if motivated. Perhaps that is a big if.
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
Tatum's 3-point shooting will determine his long-term stock in NBA, as he made just 34 percent of his attempts in college.
That was a marked improvement from his time as a prep player, however; if he can keep getting better from deep and develop his nascent defensive skills, Tatum will be a force for years to come, because consistency from downtown is the only hole in his game.
If he falls to the Knicks, New York should thank the basketball gods. Yes, this team needs a point guard, but do you really want Phil Jackson, the guy who insists on the Triangle Offense, drafting a point guard for that system?
fact that #4 thru #10 of the draft seam to be all interchangeable to a degree makes me less upset about dropping a spot, but man is it a kick in the balls that every time something can potentially go well, it doesn't. 7 draft lotteries in the last 15 years, never move up, 3 times move down and toss in the silly 50/50 lottery a couple weeks ago with Minnesota and we cant win that one. I try and tell myself not to get any bit optimistic watching these things, but of course that can't be contained and then comes the inescapable letdown. I understand how probability works, and that despite getting a negative outcome 7 out of the last 7 lottery attempts that the odds of a positive outcome weren't going to go up for this last drawing, but damn....
Skill set wise, he is universally billed as having elite athleticism, adequate size (not necessarily long, but a solid 6'2"), a developing J, and a good passer/defender if motivated. Perhaps that is a big if.
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
His personality/ego aren't the issue. He's considered a good kid who was knocked a bit for not wanting to speak to the media. His issues are all about his game (and concerns with his knee). He's a big time talent but he's a shoot first PG who didn't play strong defense this season and has only a 6'3 wingspan which limits his defensive upside. I've seen more than one "expert" suggest Smith is neck and neck with Ball as the #2 best PG prospect so it's not as if he's some bum.
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. Hes bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isnt as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesnt have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smiths floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesnt get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, hes not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldnt matter all that much right now, either."
He's an explosive player who can finish at the rim but also plays within the offense and looks to set up his teammates. All he really needs to do is tighten up his shooting a bit, which is now pretty good but not great.
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
He's an explosive player who can finish at the rim but also plays within the offense and looks to set up his teammates. All he really needs to do is tighten up his shooting a bit, which is now pretty good but not great.
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
limited edition blue suede Clyde Frazier Pumas. I had once told her that I wore Pumas when I played in school back in the day because of Clyde. She (a "sneakerhead" and pretty good PG) said they only made 73 of them.
'73 is of course the last year the Knicks WILL EVER WIN A F*ING CHAMPIONSHIP! I was 10 at the time... and it doesn't seem like just yesterday..
but if it seems like 1-7 are guards and so forth, maybe switch it up and take a center or forward at 8?
The Knicks could really use a great rebounder on offense?
Did Dennis Rodman play for Phil?
That type, a rebounding monster, especially on the O side.
- maybe a center/forward who can defend the 3 out on the arc on D, (leaving Porz or others to defend under the rim on D) and leaving (porz) free shoot 3s or just move anywhere on O.
better the drafts best center as opposed to 6th best guard?
barring that, the player, any position, with the highest basketball IQ and an 'ability to function in any system' type. a 'glue' player and motivational force.
but the difference between 5, 6, 7, and 8 isnt much. We dont get our pick of player, but this strikes me as one of those drafts where there is a huge second tier.
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. Hes bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isnt as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesnt have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smiths floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesnt get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, hes not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldnt matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
shoot first with an iffy defensive motor is 100% a personality issue.
We get it, Jon. You love the high floor low-ceiling French guy. Smith was a shoot-first player on NC State out of necessity - who the hell else would you want taking the shots on that team? Terry Henderson? Napoleon DynamiteMaverick Rowan? Hell, like Tjarks said, NC State probably would have been better off if Smith actually HAD played as selfishly as you're accusing him of.
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. Hes bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isnt as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesnt have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smiths floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesnt get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, hes not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldnt matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
To me at 8 he's a no-brainer (if the knee checks out). Huge ceiling and floor isn't exactly scrub. Has some elite tools to work with.
shoot first with an iffy defensive motor is 100% a personality issue.
We get it, Jon. You love the high floor low-ceiling French guy. Smith was a shoot-first player on NC State out of necessity - who the hell else would you want taking the shots on that team? Terry Henderson? Napoleon DynamiteMaverick Rowan? Hell, like Tjarks said, NC State probably would have been better off if Smith actually HAD played as selfishly as you're accusing him of.
Seems like a strange point to attack me on.
I do like frank but that's irrelevant to my opinion of DSJ.
I've been burned enough times by score first PGs who only defend when they want to and are streaky shooters.
Hornacek has a positive rep for developing guards while in Phoenix. Smith (and this is secondary) has the kind of spark that can get the Knicks fans through what might be a rough season. Had NC State had a normal roster/coaching situation is pretty safe to suggest Smith at 8 would be a pipedream. This idea a "shoot first" PG can't be molded at 19 is absurd.
"Smith is a nightmare in the open court, changing gears powerfully and being absolutely fearless slashing right to the front of the rim, where he can finish emphatically above the rim, or acrobatically off the glass. He has an excellent first step from a stand-still as well, getting low to the ground, and will often split ball-screens impressively, with a tight handle, excellent footwork, and the ability to take contact at the rim. Smith wasn't especially efficient from the field (50% 2P%), but made up for that at the college level with his ability to get to the free throw line at a strong clip, a product of his aggressiveness with the ball, and willingness to drive into the teeth of the defense to draw fouls. In the half-court, Smith shows promise with his first step, array of fancy ball-handling maneuvers, and an innate ability to operate at different speeds. He wasn't in an ideal situation at N.C. State, being surrounded by three non-shooters almost at all times, in traditional two-big men lineups that clogged the paint and made his team easy to game-plan against. Nevertheless, he posted a solid 6.8 assists per-40 pace adjusted, the fourth best rate in our Top-100, as he is capable of creating space, surveying the floor and passing the ball with either hand out of pick and roll situations, sometimes in very impressive fashion. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/dennis-smith-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5836/ DraftExpress"
but... isn't Westbrook shoot first? Isn't Harden? Isn't Curry? The Knicks have had knucklehead shoot first PG's in Marbury the Vaseline eater, Steve Francis (was shot when he got here) and Mute quitting Derrick Rose post 20 injuries. A 19 year old kid can't be molded? Nearly EVERYONE agrees this is a potential all-star.
Frank isn't high ceiling low floor. I think he's the opposite. He's at worst a 3/D player who can chip in 5 assists per game. Tough to see him becoming more than that.
Not one instance of even a little lottery luck in over 30 years. Not. Once.
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
Right. Let's kill the Knicks for playing hard in a PRO NBA game. Killing the Knicks for playing hard in a game. That's where we are now? Is that it?
The mere fact we are even debating that garbage speaks to how awful the NBA truly is. The knicks did nothing wrong down the stretch. Nothing. They even "rested" players more often than not. You can't throw games. You just can't. Throwing a game literally destroys the product. It damages the credibility of the game. The Knicks lost a lot of games down the stretch. They win one or two and fans sit here and actually say the words "the knicks don't deserve a good lottery pick because they won a game in March"
you want to nitpick I think they should have given Ndour some burn a bit earlier. They kept talking him up, why not use the end of the season to see if he's worthy of a roster spot? He showed some flashes but so few games and literally when teams were "dead". Not a big deal, just wish they would have done that.
Frank isn't high ceiling low floor. I think he's the opposite. He's at worst a 3/D player who can chip in 5 assists per game. Tough to see him becoming more than that.
Smith unquestionably had the higher ceiling.
Greg said he was the "high floor low-ceiling French guy". You are in agreement.
I dont have an opinion of him but if he's really a low ceiling guy, Im a pass. Get lucky finding role players elsewhere. At 8 you have a shot at someone with a good ceiling. Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Smith, Isaac, Fox = 7 guys I'd be happy with, and I could be talked into Monk as a Booker type. Shoot, even Markkanen with his fit problems is better than low ceiling.
RE: my daughter bought me an early Father's day present
limited edition blue suede Clyde Frazier Pumas. I had once told her that I wore Pumas when I played in school back in the day because of Clyde. She (a "sneakerhead" and pretty good PG) said they only made 73 of them.
'73 is of course the last year the Knicks WILL EVER WIN A F*ING CHAMPIONSHIP! I was 10 at the time... and it doesn't seem like just yesterday..
Dr D. I had the gold puma with black. Hated them
I switched to adidas low top superstars and light blue high top converse all stars
But I was always a huge Clyde fan
Given that Boston will be loaded at guard with fultz or Ball if they don't trade the pick. Do you think Boston would trade Avery Bradley to Knicks for Melo given that he will be due a big contract after next year. If they don't signs big name free agent, then they will have cap space for Melo with some throw ins. I still think they need a guy besides isiah to ISO at end of games. You can match up small ball with crowder and Melo interchangeable at 3/4 during stretches. Would you do that if you were Knicks and then trade courtney lee for a pick.
I have been saying to no Melo ... BUT if somehow you all can get Josh Jackson ... then a Fultz trade for Jackson and Melo would be beneficial for both teams ...
been burned by aging moron shoot first PG's. Why is Smith automatically the next Steve Francis? Why isn't he Kemba Walker? Kyle Lowry? We can't let #Knickhistory cloud our judgement on current guys.
every time someone says the Knicks dont deserve to win
I want to remind these people that the LA Clippers have been winning recently. The golden state warriors were an after thought for 20 years. They step in shit with Curry and made a nice move getting Green...step in shit with Thompson and Durant...now they are the benchmark franchise.
The Cavs deserve to win year after year? What exactly did they do that was so indicative of forward thinking? Oh that's right, they TRADE AWAY WIGGINS for KEVIN LOVE.
Gimme a break. The Knicks aren't so far behind everyone in terms of scouting and I have news for everyone, most NBA owners are rich fat white guys that wouldn't piss on any of us if we were on fire. Remember that. Dolan is the same as the rest except he picked a fight with the big bad NYC media.
But I'd be fine either way. I think Isaac could play 3 in the NBA and, while Willy is a nice player, I wouldn't let him keep me from drafting a guy who will likely be a much better player.
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac, DSJ. I'll be disappointed with anyone not in that 7 but I will root for whomever we take. Patton still intrigues me as a shocker but that's probably too high to roll the dice.
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
So in the last 5 or so years, you've named 8 players total that were taking 7 of later. Sorry, not convinced that we're getting a game changer at 8. The odds are just overwhelmingly against it.
to even talk about it but if we are talking about tanking Doncic looks like Phil's dream "head of the triangle". Guy has that Gretzky/Nash natural "sees more than anyone else on the court/ice/field" ability. He's not a PG and he's going to be picked apart because he's not a jump out of the gym type but damn he's impressive on video.
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac, DSJ. I'll be disappointed with anyone not in that 7 but I will root for whomever we take. Patton still intrigues me as a shocker but that's probably too high to roll the dice.
I think there are more good players than that, but the only guys I would be disappointed by are Nkitilina and Justin Jackson. I trust the Knicks' European scouting, but I would have an extremely difficult time getting excited about Frank. I wouldn't even consider Justin Jackson (nor should the Knicks), but I saw his name as a consideration in several different articles last night by beat writers.
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac, DSJ. I'll be disappointed with anyone not in that 7 but I will root for whomever we take. Patton still intrigues me as a shocker but that's probably too high to roll the dice.
I think there are more good players than that, but the only guys I would be disappointed by are Nkitilina and Justin Jackson. I trust the Knicks' European scouting, but I would have an extremely difficult time getting excited about Frank. I wouldn't even consider Justin Jackson (nor should the Knicks), but I saw his name as a consideration in several different articles last night by beat writers.
I can't imagine the Knicks would really take Justin Jackson at 8. If they really did that then they are destined to suck for a very long time. Even those who like him acknowledge his limited upside. Markkanen simply isn't a good fit, Monk (not a fan for us for reasons I've laid out previously). I guess I'd have to take Monk or Frenhy if "my 7" were off the board but I'd also likely look more closely at guys like Collins or Patton vs. those 2.
been burned by aging moron shoot first PG's. Why is Smith automatically the next Steve Francis? Why isn't he Kemba Walker? Kyle Lowry? We can't let #Knickhistory cloud our judgement on current guys.
Such an important point. Two guys with similar toolboxes are not the same player necessarily.
The team with the worst record has won the lottery
want to believe Justin Jackson is this years Trey Lyles. He's going to go far too high to "if they add a second pick" and he'd be a "throw the remote" at 8. A Phil Jackson special (which luckily he's yet to actually do despite the rumors every year).
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
So in the last 5 or so years, you've named 8 players total that were taking 7 of later. Sorry, not convinced that we're getting a game changer at 8. The odds are just overwhelmingly against it.
Well obviously the odds aren't in favor. Just saying it happens virtually every year. We don't get a break with the lottery balls but maybe we catch one with a sleeper?
You'll have the first and eighth picks in this year's draft, and probably two top five picks in next year's draft, plus Hernangomez still at center and whatever draft picks you'd get for Melo, Lee, O'Quinn, etc. I love KP, but that would be a dream scenario. We'd be contending for a decade.
line when it comes to DSJ his wingspan IS an issue in terms of defensive upside but defense absolutely can be coached up/improved. Effort and fundamentals can turn "any" superior athlete into at least an average defender. He's unlikely to be all-NBA first team defensively but these kids don't need to do a whole lot defensively in HS when they are freakazoid athletes and then he got tossed into a terrible situation. I've never met the kid, if he's a poor interview etc but linked below is Smith talking and comes off as a decent human being to me. Link - ( New Window )
come into the league with "a desire to play defense"? Anthony Davis?
This can't be a serious question. You're questioning the desire of literally every 18 year old of wanting to play defense?
I'm saying most 18 year olds have the flaw of lapsing or giving up on defense for stretches. Hell every top pick in this draft except maybe Jackson has that flaw. Fultz played jack shit for defense. Ball checked out often. Fox was better than those 2 but he wasn't keyed in 100% of the time on the defensive end either.
the odds are against getting a game changer at all
Most years, there are maybe one or two of those, and often there are better players taken after the top 5. Go back a few years and look at the top 5s:
2009 - #1 Griffin, #2 Thabeet, #3 Harden, #4 Evans, #5 Rubio. Curry, of course, was #7
2010 - #1 Wall, #2 Turner, #3 Favors, #4 Johnson, #5 Cousins. Monroe at 7, Hayward at 9, and George at 10 were all much better than 2-4.
2011 - #1 Irving, #2 Williams, #3 Kanter, #4 Thompson, #5 Valanciunas. Best players in the draft by a mile, outside of Kyrie, were Kemba at 9 and Kawhi at 15.
2012 - #1 Davis, #2 MK-G, #3 Beal, #4 Waiters, #5 Robinson. Lousy draft overall. Lillard at 6, Draymond in the second round.
2013 - #1 Bennett, #2 Oladipo, #3 Porter, #4 Zeller, #5 Len. Woof. Best players in that one were Giannis at 15 and Gobert at 26.
Is he a sure thing? Hell no, but to talk about red flags because he played lazy defense as a teenager is a bit much.
70% of the probable top 10 selections played lazy defense. I think Smith is getting the opposite of "East coast bias". Because people watch so many ACC games, he's getting killed for stuff while other guys are getting passes for the same things (especially Fultz).
I don't even want to talk about Smith because I don't want to be disappointed when the Knicks bypass him.
I get it that Fultz is a better draft prospect, but I don't think there's a huge gap between them. And what gap does exist is due to Fultz being a bit bigger and a better shooter. Smith can improve his shooting. Neither one made their team a winner, and neither one played much defense. Hell, defense is practically illegal in the Pac 12.
is it me or is josh jackson a better fit then fulz for celtics?
pretty confident Smith is a lock top 5 pick if not for the NC State situation. Not taking anything away from Ball or Fox (at all) but I think if you stick Smith on either team suddenly he's 100% in the mix with those guys.
pretty confident Smith is a lock top 5 pick if not for the NC State situation. Not taking anything away from Ball or Fox (at all) but I think if you stick Smith on either team suddenly he's 100% in the mix with those guys.
fox has definitely shot up because of the one game against ucla...
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
Isaiah Thomas belongs on that list too, especially considering his impact vs where he was drafted.
Great points about the unfair nitpicking and criticism Smith is getting. Blaming him for his teams record and defense? Fultz played for the worst team in the Pac 12. He got hurt at the end of the year and sat out the conference tourney. He wasn't exactly a defensive stopper either.
This was Smith's first year back after tearing ACL. He stated he felt he was playing at 85%. He played with no shooters on a bad team but still put up good assist numbers. He also went into Cameron and dominated Duke. Does Fultz have a performance like that?
And for all this talk of defense for point guards, who's the top PG in the NBA that is good at defense aside from CP3? Even people that say Wall are off the mark. Irving, Curry, Harden, IT4 all struggle on defense. The wingspan talk is also a little overblown when the best defensive PG in the league has a 6 foot wingspan. And Fox is not some defensive stopper. He has the tools, but he struggle on defense this year as well.
I think if DSJ falls to 8 then you run to the podium to take him. He checks a lot of the boxes of what you want in a point guard and also fits the profile of a guy who could be a steal in the draft aka dropping unreasonably.
obviously you have to go fulz but i would think jackson would be the better fit...
if you take fulz you are not going to max out thomas, so you are kind of drafting a replacement rather than a piece that fits a good team
My nightmare scenario has been Josh Jackson to Boston. I hope they go with a PG instead. Jackson can give KP fits, and probably still will assuming Philly takes him. But at least I don't hate Philly as much as Boston.
since the end of the season. He's chatty all of a sudden, and sounds like he still has a little fire in his belly. Hope he's up for this task.
I think Phil is confident in their drafting ability/process and is looking forward to a new chapter with the team. One comment I found interesting is he thinks they're "set" in the frontcourt, so he obviously sees Willy as a starting piece.
The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
Yeah exactly. I love Jackson as a prospect but I doubt he ever even covers KP. Not really worried about that. I am worried about Philly having a Lowry, Jackson, Simmons, Saric, Embiid with a strong bench and many more picks to come. In terms of Boston and Philly getting stronger, last night did not go well for the Knicks.
I wore green (school color) Pumas in Jr. High. I also ended up switching to high top Converse All Stars when I got to JV and varsity. Agree the Converse were better for hoops and I never had another pair of Pumas until now (many moons later). I only wear these on special occasions ;)
I was also a huge Earl the Pearl fan. Is that you? ;)
The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
That's mostly because KP catches the ball way too far from the basket to take advantage of his one strength over Green... his height/length. KP has to get stronger (so he can hold position) and his teammates have to do a better job of getting him the ball in the low post. Once KP catches the ball too far from the rim, Green gets so tight, he can't even put the ball on the floor.
The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
Draymond may be the strongest player in the NBA. He's the best post defender the NBA has seen in a while based on opponent FG%. Jackson is a stud defender but let's not assume he's going from 210 pounds to being the strongest player in the NBA.
The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
Draymond may be the strongest player in the NBA. He's the best post defender the NBA has seen in a while based on opponent FG%. Jackson is a stud defender but let's not assume he's going from 210 pounds to being the strongest player in the NBA.
To be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with your statement per se. Just mentioning a much shorter guy gave KP problems. I'm not too worried about Jackson shutting down KP. I don't recall "Jackson types" really bothering him much.
Is .500 at best. If you draft Fultz that's what you are doing. I'm thinking a trade down or moving Thomas. The thought they could play together when they both want the ball is a little crazy to me. Also, that means less minutes for Bradley (their best shooter) or Smart. They need front court help. Wish we had their problems.
I think Monk makes too much sense for them. He can kind of be like Klay Thompson for them on offense. Doesn't handle the ball but makes it rain. I'd be concerned with Fox, Jackson, Tatum, etc. There isn't much spacing to begin with Simmons and saric (saric may turn out to be a decent 3 point shooter but isn't a threat yet). Fox and Simmons could be a poor fit, fox struggles in the half court to begin with not sure he's suited all that well off the ball.
Tatum is a tough fit with Simmons and saric. I'd trade back with a team like Orlando or Minnesota and get pieces like hezonja or Dunn in the process.
Or how about this: Dunn and lavine for the #3 pick and maybe some throw ins like anderson, luwawu, stauskas and/or Okafor?
so difficult to be a knick fan today so if you are . . .
you can consider yourself the loyalist, most passionate fan in sports. Let me count the ways:
--your GM spend the season beating up your "star" player publicly, damaging the entire team, and probably reducing said player's market value.
--your GM insists on hiring coaches and then forcing an outdated, unpopular system on the team.
--your owner embarrasses himself and a very very popular historic player by essentially tossing him from MSG.
--your "franchise" young player bolts the US blowing off the GM, coach and not being in touch with the franchise since the season ended.
--the team is clearly in a very poor competitive long term position v top teams in the conference including Boston, Philly, Toronto, Cavs, etc.
--the team and franchise culture has been toxic for years.
--while other bottom dwellers work hard at tanking the last few weeks, the Knicks find a way to win just enough to tie for the 6 and 7th picks.
--in the coin flip, for 6, naturally, the Knicks lose.
--in the lottery the team falls a spot to 8
I have been a season ticket holder since 1986, so I am a dedicated fan, but jeez, even I am losing interest, faith, and hope.
I wore green (school color) Pumas in Jr. High. I also ended up switching to high top Converse All Stars when I got to JV and varsity. Agree the Converse were better for hoops and I never had another pair of Pumas until now (many moons later). I only wear these on special occasions ;)
I was also a huge Earl the Pearl fan. Is that you? ;)
No. Not Earl the Pearl. Earl The Goat Manigault
I played a year of Division 3 basketball 79-80 at Clark Universiry
Monk is not garbage. He scored at a good clip for 19 year old on the biggest college stage. He has an elite skill in shooting, and getting his own shot. My biggest worry with him is defense. Analytic heads love his game .. he has fans for a reason. He could go #3, Philly could also trade down to get him.
Knitilikina's lack of quickness is a bit worrisome as well. He is versatile though, and a complete player. Great D, team player, but will have to sit for awhile. He's a projection, but the upside is my question.
This said, would you trade #8, #44 for Portland's #15, #20, #26?
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Our ESPN analytics team has Jonathan Isaac No. 1 on their draft board
1. Jonathan Isaac, SF, 6-foot-11, 205, Florida State (age on draft day: 20)
Chad Ford Big Board rank: 6
ESPN Analytics draft model rank: 1
Isaac has the top projected Statistical Plus Minus (SPM) for his first five years in the NBA, according to our model, which gives him a 64 percent chance to play at the level of a bona fide NBA starter or better. Isaac has the third-best adjusted defensive rebounding percentage in this draft class and a 55 percent adjusted effective field goal percentage, which is as good as any other small forward in this draft class. His college stats are most similar to those of Otto Porter, who was selected No. 3 by the Washington Wizards in 2013 and was a key piece for a team that finished a win away from the Eastern Conference finals this season.
It is unlikely that Isaac is going to work his way into the top three, but at No. 4, the Phoenix Suns could get a top-quality player should Isaac be available when they're on the clock.
Chad FordVerified account @chadfordinsider
Our ESPN analytics team has Jonathan Isaac No. 1 on their draft board
1. Jonathan Isaac, SF, 6-foot-11, 205, Florida State (age on draft day: 20)
Chad Ford Big Board rank: 6
ESPN Analytics draft model rank: 1
Isaac has the top projected Statistical Plus Minus (SPM) for his first five years in the NBA, according to our model, which gives him a 64 percent chance to play at the level of a bona fide NBA starter or better. Isaac has the third-best adjusted defensive rebounding percentage in this draft class and a 55 percent adjusted effective field goal percentage, which is as good as any other small forward in this draft class. His college stats are most similar to those of Otto Porter, who was selected No. 3 by the Washington Wizards in 2013 and was a key piece for a team that finished a win away from the Eastern Conference finals this season.
It is unlikely that Isaac is going to work his way into the top three, but at No. 4, the Phoenix Suns could get a top-quality player should Isaac be available when they're on the clock.
2. Malik Monk, SG, 6-foot-3, 185, Kentucky (age on draft day: 19)
Chad Ford Big Board rank: 7
ESPN Analytics draft model rank: 3
Our data has shown guards to be more difficult to project than big men at the next level, as some guards are able to transfer their shooting to the NBA while others possess shooting flaws that aren't exposed until they play against bigger and faster defenses in the NBA. That said, the model gives Monk just a 25 percent chance of being a bust, which is the second-smallest figure in this draft for a guard after Lonzo Ball. Compared to the other top-60 players on Chad Ford's Big Board, Monk is unique because he lacks any glaring weaknesses statistically, but the only statistic in which he really stands out is his having a low turnover percentage.
Ford has the Philadelphia 76ers taking Monk at No. 3 in his latest mock draft, and our model agrees that he is one of the three best players in the draft.
Monk is not garbage. He scored at a good clip for 19 year old on the biggest college stage. He has an elite skill in shooting, and getting his own shot. My biggest worry with him is defense. Analytic heads love his game .. he has fans for a reason. He could go #3, Philly could also trade down to get him.
Knitilikina's lack of quickness is a bit worrisome as well. He is versatile though, and a complete player. Great D, team player, but will have to sit for awhile. He's a projection, but the upside is my question.
This said, would you trade #8, #44 for Portland's #15, #20, #26?
Depends who is left on the board. For me if our choices are Monk/Frenchy or the trade I'd do that trade. If someone unexpected falls I it would suck if we passed.
would be interested in Melo since they have the 2 big man stars and might go all-in to appease them? Would he even want to go there?
This year's pick would be off the table, and I have no idea how the salary would or even could work, but future unprotected picks might be gettable and there's still a solid chance that the NO team busts in the tough west.
if Smith is off the board at #8. You could add Diallo, Frank Jackson and Bradley/Swanigan in that neighborhood. Given the depth of the draft and our dearth of talent, quantity over a little quality might be the right play.
if Smith is off the board at #8. You could add Diallo, Frank Jackson and Bradley/Swanigan in that neighborhood. Given the depth of the draft and our dearth of talent, quantity over a little quality might be the right play.
Agreed. I pull the trigger if Smith if off the board.
Frank Jackson? What the hell would we want Frank Jackson for?
But Jackson in particular is another tweener. Small for a 2, not really a 1. I'd rather get a guy like Bacon, an athletic 2/3 with some length who has a decent shot.
would be interested in Melo since they have the 2 big man stars and might go all-in to appease them? Would he even want to go there?
This year's pick would be off the table, and I have no idea how the salary would or even could work, but future unprotected picks might be gettable and there's still a solid chance that the NO team busts in the tough west.
You can definitely make the salaries work but the Knicks would have to take back some awful contracts- some combo of Asik/Solomon Hill/ Ajica/ Moore. You could even go all in and include Lee and take all 4 back. But the Knicks would need at least 3 future 1st I would think. And I doubt Melo wants to go there but who knows. Pelicans lineup could be-
Cousins
Davis
Melo
Lee
Holiday
They could use the MLE for a bench guy but it would still be weak. That 5 would be really dangerous though. Far fetched but fun to think about.
As for Rubio, I remember worrying that acquiring Rubio would hurt the tank and drop us to - oh, I don't know - 8th in the lottery. I guess we could've just pulled the trigger on that one. We don't have much to offer now that Rose is off the books.
Is .500 at best. If you draft Fultz that's what you are doing. I'm thinking a trade down or moving Thomas. The thought they could play together when they both want the ball is a little crazy to me. Also, that means less minutes for Bradley (their best shooter) or Smart. They need front court help. Wish we had their problems.
I have to point out a couple things. First, you made a comment earlier that Jaylen Brown was a bust. He's not. He's a 20 year old rotation player on one of the last 4 teams left. He's going to be a good player. He was raw coming out but everyone sees his ability.
Second, what the team needs is a go-to scorer, above all else. Fultz can play off the ball. Thomas can play off the ball too. It's not a problem. They'll probably end up trading Bradley or Smart. They aren't trading down and they aren't trading Thomas. Having too many good guards is a high class problem to have.
and Noah to Minnesota for Rubio (2 years), Pekovic (1 year), Dieng, Aldrich, Jordan Hill and Minnesota's 2019 1st round pick.
Melo's accepting a trade to Minnesota?
Again, like any of the other non-Spurs/Cavs/Warriors the Wolves with Melo (and he has a friendly relationship with Thibs) are as good as bet as "any" to be an interesting team (yeah maybe even contend)
KAT/Wiggins/Melo/LaVine and whomever they pick at 7 + Dunn, Dieng, Bjelica. Maybe he says no but it's worth looking into.
and Noah to Minnesota for Rubio (2 years), Pekovic (1 year), Dieng, Aldrich, Jordan Hill and Minnesota's 2019 1st round pick.
Do that in a heartbeat. But I don't even think Thibs is trading for Noah at this point. Sadly I think the Knicks would have to be the ones including a pick in this trade.
I don't think its outrageous that Melo would accept a trade to Minny though.
We're gonna have to learn to love Austin Rivers, fellas.
A is Dunn, B is Jerian Grant. Grant was better as a rookie than Dunn, particularly on offense/scoring. And most Knicks fans view Grant as basically worthless in justifying the Rose trade. Now I wasnt one of them, but if Grant would have been a rookie on NYK putting up those numbers this year, I wouldnt hesitate for a minute to take Smith, Fox etc.
BTW, since I really got mocked hard for my thoughts on Grant, this year he bumped his shooting to .473/.366/.890. PER 13.1 and WS48 .118 (indicating a guy who should be starting but not a standout at all). He's 6'4 and can defend and can get to the rim. We gave up on him too soon.
In addition to UNC's Tony Bradley, the Knicks' workout today included Kobi Simmons, Kasey Hill, Tyler Dorsey and Omer Yurtseven, per ESPN sources. It was the first day of workouts for the Knicks, who have the eighth pick in the draft and two second-round picks.
and be a fan favorite in New York. He plays hard-nosed defense and has some style to his game, and the Euros seem to appreciate the NY stage more than the U.S. kids do. Let's explore this, Phillip.
include the 2nd if need be. We would be adding a youngish PG who at very worst would be great for KP/Willy and would allow us to pick any position at 8. Swap Melo for ANY decent assets and suddenly we may have something.
to get things moving in the right direction. I just wish I had a little more faith in their ability to recognize that and act accordingly. I hope they surprise us with a sensible plan.
I would do it but I think Minny says no. 5 year difference in ages is not insignificant.
But at the same time Rubio is an expiring and I highly doubt Minny will go out of their way to match his next deal. Lee would give them defense and floor spacing, their 2 biggest issues right now.
Rubio is not an expiring
He's on the books for this year 201-18 and 2018-19 at approximately 15 million per
Quote:
In comment 13474312 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for Rubio, who says no?
I would do it but I think Minny says no. 5 year difference in ages is not insignificant.
But at the same time Rubio is an expiring and I highly doubt Minny will go out of their way to match his next deal. Lee would give them defense and floor spacing, their 2 biggest issues right now.
but Im not giving a future #2 or the 2017 mid round #2 for Rubio. Not so much because of an assessment of Rubio vs. Lee (I think they have the same value when you factor in health and the hole in Rubio's game, which makes it harder to keep him out there in all situations).
But rather because the goal is the future. I want that shot at a diamond in the rough at 44. This is a deep draft, so 44 may net you a good player. May net you a great player. I'd rather just keep the scratch off ticket, and move Lee for a future #1 or several #2s.
He'd be going home (for real this time) and the Wizards are a playoff team so I think he would approve it. Also, will they really want to shell out big money to Beal?
I think has a lot to do with where LaLa will go. If they split and he leaves the state, very little chance he'll be able to compel out of state access to his kid.
I think has a lot to do with where LaLa will go. If they split and he leaves the state, very little chance he'll be able to compel out of state access to his kid.
Very true. My guess is they'll share joint legal custody but physical custody will belong to Lala. In the end, I think it'll depend on where Lala and Kiyan want to live.
I want as much young, cheap talent on this team as humanly possible by the end of draft night. Let a bunch of 25-and-under guys play their hearts out next season. It's the best thing for us.
We really didn't see other facets of his game aside from shooting at Kentucky. But his prep highlights show the type of bounce and mid-air acrobatics that only Derrick Rose could match.
If the usual suspects are gone by the pick, it'd be between Smith and Monk for me.
And grab Kobi Simmons with one of the second rounders. We really need an infusion of athletic backcourt players, BADLY.
"Diallo, a Queens native, did half of a postgraduate year at Putnam Science before enrolling for the spring semester at Kentucky, where he only practiced with the team as it advanced to the N.C.A.A. tournament, even though he would have been eligible to play.
It was mostly my choice, Diallo said of sitting out. Just coming into a season with a team that has some chemistry flowing, a team thats been together a whole summer and a semester, just coming in and trying to input myself right away wouldnt be right for me and wouldnt be right for those guys.
RE: So Calipari seems to be going out of his way to praise Monk.
"Diallo, a Queens native, did half of a postgraduate year at Putnam Science before enrolling for the spring semester at Kentucky, where he only practiced with the team as it advanced to the N.C.A.A. tournament, even though he would have been eligible to play.
It was mostly my choice, Diallo said of sitting out. Just coming into a season with a team that has some chemistry flowing, a team thats been together a whole summer and a semester, just coming in and trying to input myself right away wouldnt be right for me and wouldnt be right for those guys.
thanks
Monk at worst would be Ben Gordon, someone like that.
As for Frank, aside from Tony Parker who had superior quickness, name me another guard from the Euro leagues or somewhere outside the States whose game translated to the NBA. I guess Dragic and Shroder to a certain extent, and I know they are different types of the players than Frank.
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
Ron Baker somehow managed a 35" vertical at the combine.
As for Frank, aside from Tony Parker who had superior quickness, name me another guard from the Euro leagues or somewhere outside the States whose game translated to the NBA. I guess Dragic and Shroder to a certain extent, and I know they are different types of the players than Frank.
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
As for Frank, aside from Tony Parker who had superior quickness, name me another guard from the Euro leagues or somewhere outside the States whose game translated to the NBA. I guess Dragic and Shroder to a certain extent, and I know they are different types of the players than Frank.
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
Sixers pick in the top 3 every year
Lakers have picked #2 overall in three straight years
Knicks have picked #4, #8 and have traded their first rounder for Andrea fucking Bargnani
Sixers pick in the top 3 every year
Lakers have picked #2 overall in three straight years
Knicks have picked #4, #8 and have traded their first rounder for Andrea fucking Bargnani
#Where'stheJustice?
I'm not an expert, but haven't the 76ers done a much better job of putting themselves in position to pick in the top 3 than us? They appear to have been infinitely better run the past few years.
They didn't even win the lottery this year - the Kings did. But oh yeah, the 76ers actually traded for those swap rights by giving away two fucking late 2nd round picks in 2015 - and they get an unconditional 1st rounder from the inept Kings in 2 years too. They also still have a Lakers 1st rounder coming, which may or may not end up being top 10.
When was the last time the Knicks actually made a forward-thinking trade that maximized their chances with lottery balls?
RE: Monk at worst would be Ben Gordon, someone like that.
As for Frank, aside from Tony Parker who had superior quickness, name me another guard from the Euro leagues or somewhere outside the States whose game translated to the NBA. I guess Dragic and Shroder to a certain extent, and I know they are different types of the players than Frank.
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
Giannis, Batum, Petrovic, Calderon, Rubio come to mind. In any event, you dont need precedent like that. What was the precedent for German power forwards before Dirk went top 10? "Other than Detlef..."
Though I dont think they tried to lose this year. It's just that they got 31 games out of their two great talents, and the rest of the roster was very inexperienced.
The Lakers were just more inept than us. The difference was basically Melo. With a player like Melo you'll just never lose enough games to be that bad.
Sixers pick in the top 3 every year
Lakers have picked #2 overall in three straight years
Knicks have picked #4, #8 and have traded their first rounder for Andrea fucking Bargnani
#Where'stheJustice?
I'm not an expert, but haven't the 76ers done a much better job of putting themselves in position to pick in the top 3 than us? They appear to have been infinitely better run the past few years.
They didn't even win the lottery this year - the Kings did. But oh yeah, the 76ers actually traded for those swap rights by giving away two fucking late 2nd round picks in 2015 - and they get an unconditional 1st rounder from the inept Kings in 2 years too. They also still have a Lakers 1st rounder coming, which may or may not end up being top 10.
When was the last time the Knicks actually made a forward-thinking trade that maximized their chances with lottery balls?
when your rebuilding you make trades like that, the knicks plan was always quick fixes, even donnie walsh who everyone thinks did a good job made horrible trades giving up 1st round picks and future picks
Odds are that we are going to have the opportunity to draft a really
Good player at 8. This is a very deep draft, and even in past drafts, although the teams picking at 8 didn't take the guy that ended up being the best player available, there were some very good players available at 8. Just have to trust that the scouting department has done their job and finds the right guy. Here's some of the guys available at 8 in recent drafts (only going to include guys that went in the lottery or very soon after because odds are anyone past that isn't reasonably a consideration at 8):
2007 - Joakim Noah 9th
2008 - Brook Lopez 10th
2009 - DeMar DeRozan 9th
2010 - Gordon Heyward 9th, Paul George 10th
2011 - Kemba Walker 9th, Klay Thompson 11th, Kawhi Leonard 15th
2012 - Andre Drummond 9th
2013 - CJ McCollum 10th, Steven Adams 12th, Greek Freak 15th
2014- Dario Saric 12th, Zach LaVine 13th
2015 - Myles Turner 11th, Devin Booker 13th
I'm sure we would all gladly sign up for any of those guys.
Yes, they will likely get a strong NBA player at 8
It's just that there are things they could have done to give themselves a chance at a better pick, and it's frustrating to see the obvious lack of foresight.
RE: Yes, they will likely get a strong NBA player at 8
It's just that there are things they could have done to give themselves a chance at a better pick, and it's frustrating to see the obvious lack of foresight.
what else could they have done? they were not going to catch orlando or philly and they were playing d league players down the stretch...
they beat chicago and miami because of sasha fucking vujacic, what else could they have done...
this is like blaming phil for tim hardaway going off
They could have made the decision to play the back end of the roster
Sooner than they did. Weeks sooner. You can't do anything about winning games where ndour and Baker are your main players but they started doing that much too late.
Though I dont think they tried to lose this year. It's just that they got 31 games out of their two great talents, and the rest of the roster was very inexperienced.
The Lakers were just more inept than us. The difference was basically Melo. With a player like Melo you'll just never lose enough games to be that bad.
Yeah I'm thoroughly confused. The 76ers tank accomplished nothing. They didn't win the lottery. A truly great, forward thinking trade two years ago got them into the top 3
Though I dont think they tried to lose this year. It's just that they got 31 games out of their two great talents, and the rest of the roster was very inexperienced.
The Lakers were just more inept than us. The difference was basically Melo. With a player like Melo you'll just never lose enough games to be that bad.
Yeah I'm thoroughly confused. The 76ers tank accomplished nothing. They didn't win the lottery. A truly great, forward thinking trade two years ago got them into the top 3
The tank won them the lottery last year. And this year was not an attempted tank like last year. Simmons got Hurt and Embiid played less than half the season.
He may not even be available that late.
What are your thoughts on the top 10 order?
I just said in the NBA thread that I'm ready to move past this franchise until they end up restoring some pride and respect in the league. Life is too short.
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
But the Knicks have been such a joke for so long that I honestly just keep losing more and more interest and at this point, it's better for me to just not even care. I'd love to see the Knicks be relevant and fun to watch again. But this team literally NEVER catches a break.
It's just a non-stop whirlwind of SHIT. I'm so tired of it.
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Tatum
Fox
Ntilikina
Isaac
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Tatum
Fox
Ntilikina
Isaac
Smith
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Tatum
Fox
Ntilikina
Isaac
dennis smith and i run to the podium
The smug happy joyful look on magic's face says it all. That franchise has had things titled in its favor forever. They can make five shitty moves in a row but the NBA will always part its legs for the lakers and afford them another chance. And thanks again to the nets for giving the Celtics everything they need for two old farts.
Stanley Johnson
Nik Stauskas
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Terrence Ross
Brandon Knight
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Joe Alexander
Brandan Wright
Rudy Gay
Channing Frye
Rafael Araujo
TJ Ford
Chris Wilcox
DeSagnia Diop
Jamal Crawford
Andre Miller
Larry Hughes
Adonal Foyle
Kerry Kittles
Shawn Respert
Couldn't ever be a fan of another team but it's just hard to support a team with few likeable people, a history of losing, and possibly the worst ownership in sports.
Stanley Johnson
Nik Stauskas
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Terrence Ross
Brandon Knight
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Joe Alexander
Brandan Wright
Rudy Gay
Channing Frye
Rafael Araujo
TJ Ford
Chris Wilcox
DeSagnia Diop
Jamal Crawford
Andre Miller
Larry Hughes
Adonal Foyle
Kerry Kittles
Shawn Respert
Yikes
and this is not a 1 year rebuild, they got to hit on this pick and they have 2 2nds, hopefully can trade lee and oquinn for a late first as well
Next year, we tank properly or get the pitchforks out.
Karma for what? They haven't won a championship in my lifetime. They haven't smelled success in my lifetime. This is fucking awful.
What does that mean exactly? What did the knicks do to lose ground in the lottery? Oh that's right they actually played hard. So what are you talking about?
and this is not a 1 year rebuild, they got to hit on this pick and they have 2 2nds, hopefully can trade lee and oquinn for a late first as well
Right.
I'm miserable about it. Tonight was just another awful moment for this franchise. 8th??? Fucking garbage.
and even then they lost the 2md most gamdz and melo and kp didnt even plah
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did i want fulz? hell yes but there are plenty of good players in this draft...
and this is not a 1 year rebuild, they got to hit on this pick and they have 2 2nds, hopefully can trade lee and oquinn for a late first as well
Right.
I'm miserable about it. Tonight was just another awful moment for this franchise. 8th??? Fucking garbage.
dont worry it is a deep draft
Could be worse- could nets fans! Boston should be set for a decade if Ainge does this right.
Will trade Melo for either a player and or draft pick
Will trade Oquinn and Lee for picks
Will not resign Rose
KP and Phil will kiss and make up
Knicks will pick SURPRISE. Hamidu Diallo PG/SG
With their 8th pick
Will get cap space for next years FA and the rebuilding has begun
Once again Knick fans are being asked for patience
draft dwayne bacon in 2nd...
suck next year and get doncic
I blame him for inviting Leslie Jones to games
Could be worse- could nets fans! Boston should be set for a decade if Ainge does this right.
Again it's not Dolan that's losing here it's the fans. Just stop with this crap.
The nets made their own bed with the dumbest trade in fifty years. I said that very day on a BBI thread and was mocked for overly blasting the trade. They get no sympathy from me.
Learn how to say this name: FRANK NTILIKINA nee-lee-kee-nah
Quote:
Alan Hahn ✔@alanhahn
Learn how to say this name: FRANK NTILIKINA nee-lee-kee-nah
Yup. Hahn knows.
Quote:
Alan Hahn ✔@alanhahn
Learn how to say this name: FRANK NTILIKINA nee-lee-kee-nah
works for me
Quote:
Alan Hahn ✔@alanhahn
Learn how to say this name: FRANK NTILIKINA nee-lee-kee-nah
While I trust the Knicks' Euro scouts, this is very difficult to get excited about.
SO F'N disappointing.
Meanwhile, the Knicks and the Nets will continue to toil in mediocrity
KP I really hope he makes a big jump in 17-18. He gets out rebounded by guards. He is over 7 feet tall and can't even average 8 boards a game. That's a combination of athleticism, technique and hunger/ heart all failing.
I also think he's never hit a game winning shot. Granted, the team hasn't had too many wins...,
I've long ago come to the conclusion that I just very well might go through my lifetime and never witness a Knick championship. Game 7 in '94 might be the zenith of my NYK fandom.
Meanwhile, the Knicks and the Nets will continue to toil in mediocrity
How are the Raptors getting better? They're about to overpay Kyle Lowry or even worse, lose him and be stuck in non-lottery/non-championship quicksand.
And I have to see the Sixers be a good team (or a healthy team) before I crown their asses.
Meanwhile, the Knicks and the Nets will continue to toil in mediocrity
Mediocrity would be an improvement at this point. But you're right. In the NBA, it's actually ideal to be God fucking awful if you're not at that elite championship plateau. The Knicks are somewhere between where they need to be (god awful) and mediocre. In the NBA, that's the definition of NO HOPE, unfortunately.
Meanwhile Phil Jackson is somewhere having a drink and not giving a shit about any of you.
But the Knicks have been such a joke for so long that I honestly just keep losing more and more interest and at this point, it's better for me to just not even care. I'd love to see the Knicks be relevant and fun to watch again. But this team literally NEVER catches a break.
It's just a non-stop whirlwind of SHIT. I'm so tired of it.
I agree. They are just so incredibly incompetent. It can be argued they are the worst franchise in all of sports.
Anyone not named Fultz, Ball, Josh Jackson, Jayson Tatum and DeAaron Fox
Sorry. But that's the truth friends.
And in what world does the Sixers deserve the third pick? What are they going to do with either Jackson or Tatum?
At 8, you absolutely have to gamble on greatness with either Smith or Isaac, and I prefer Smith because of position. Frank is as uninspiring as they come. I am sick just thinking about Phil passing on Smith for Frank because he doesn't like flashy players with street games. Are we really knocking Smith's defense? Are Fultz or Ball better defensively? Are any of the guards in the league aside John Wall even adequate defensively?
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Who would you take if the following are off the board:
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Tatum
Fox
Ntilikina
Isaac
dennis smith and i run to the podium
Jonathan WassermanVerified account @NBADraftWass
Jonathan Wasserman Retweeted Craig Erickson
If the Knicks are really putting stock into prospects' triangle fit, they probably won't like Smith, an iso/ball-screen ball-dominator.
Nobody knows what will happen after the workouts. What worries me is that everybody seems convinced Frank is the pick because he seems like a Phil's player.
Nobody knows what will happen after the workouts. What worries me is that everybody seems convinced Frank is the pick because he seems like a Phil's player.
actually the guy who scouted kp has been scoiting frank for awhile now...
frabk is 6 6 and is only 18, shoots 43 percent from 3 amd can defend 3 positions...
he may end up being a 2 guard but is that a bad thing? you get a starting 2 with playmaking potential at the 8th pick...
i am good with either smith or frank
We'll probably still land Frank at 8 - isn't that who you wanted anyway?
The Rose and Chandler trades happened pre-draft, so hopefully we get another move this year that isn't a disaster. I'd love a late first. We need quantity now that we're not in the top three.
Anyone see much of him and have an opinion on him as a potential Knick selection? I would love for them to get a young guy who can score consistently.
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good offseason, but it will take an amazing plan.
We'll probably still land Frank at 8 - isn't that who you wanted anyway?
The Rose and Chandler trades happened pre-draft, so hopefully we get another move this year that isn't a disaster. I'd love a late first. We need quantity now that we're not in the top three.
got to trade lee and oquinn for late firsts, a lot of depth to this draft
KP fell into Phil's lap I think. If the Knicks had the third pick and had gone with KP instead of Oak, then I'd be more impressed with Phil.
Like I said, in this city there is nothing more miserable then being a Knicks fan. The city is unreal when the Knicks are good. That day may never come at the current going rate.
Smith or Isaac, and reluctantly maybe Monk.
Anyone see much of him and have an opinion on him as a potential Knick selection? I would love for them to get a young guy who can score consistently.
the question with monk is fit and what can he add to his game, he is a scorer right now amd thats it, right now i see 6th man..
if he could play point his ceiling would be much higher nit i jist dont think he can, if you draft him that would be the hope..
KP fell into Phil's lap I think. If the Knicks had the third pick and had gone with KP instead of Oak, then I'd be more impressed with Phil.
Like I said, in this city there is nothing more miserable then being a Knicks fan. The city is unreal when the Knicks are good. That day may never come at the current going rate.
Smith or Isaac, and reluctantly maybe Monk.
how aboit finding hernangomez?
I just want Phil to be open minded about whom he drafts and the philosophy of building the team. I am a big Melo basher, but I absolutely detest how Phil has treated him.
exactly look at warriors, how many number 1 picks are on their team? none...
spurs what pick was kawhi? parker? ginobli?
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
Knicks get the #8 puck and are complete trash.
Cool.
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Not one instance of even a little lottery luck in over 30 years. Not. Once.
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
absokute bullshit, knicks lost the 2md amount of games out of anyone after their 14 and 10 start, melo and kp barely played...
they had ron baker justin holiday sash vujacic and maurice ndour on the couet to end games...
there is nothing more a team can do, they played dleague players down the stretch
I wish its the 90s again when they were relevant.
They could've let Rambis coach...
the guy on twitter jsports who seems to know someone close to phil has been sahing knicks are not going to go for a quick fix this year...
he also said kni ks have looked at frank extensively and done a ton of homework
Quote:
.
What does that mean exactly? What did the knicks do to lose ground in the lottery? Oh that's right they actually played hard. So what are you talking about?
It's simple math. The system isn't built to reward actually playing hard after you've already gotten your ass kicked. Pride for the sake of pride (and season tickets) gets you exactly what we got. There's no justifying a willing refusal to play by the rules as they're constructed.
If they took lets say the eight teams with the worst records with two weeks to go and let them have their own "playoff run" for draft order it would be exciting for their fans and eliminate completely teams tanking. Teams would be fighting to win the first pick, second, etc.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
Maurice Ndour won 2 of those last 4 games on his own (CHI & GW shot vs. PHI). There's no one down the bench past him.
or filled with sand
That ability to shrug off two decades of failure and still come back every year thinking this is the year something good happens is pretty incredible.
then what about the lakers and celtics.... did they not catch their breaks yet?
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
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consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Is the Nets pick at all lottery protected next year?
Quote:
In comment 13473473 bceagle05 said:
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consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Is the Nets pick at all lottery protected next year?
No. they fucking suck.
Quote:
consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Hahahahaha. Culture.
You are something else with this crap. But hey, if it gets you through the day, more power to ya!
If they took lets say the eight teams with the worst records with two weeks to go and let them have their own "playoff run" for draft order it would be exciting for their fans and eliminate completely teams tanking. Teams would be fighting to win the first pick, second, etc.
That's actually a pretty great idea. Let the draft order of the top 5 picks be decided by the W-L record of the worst 5 teams in their last 15 games. Highest W-L record in those games picks first, etc. This way you could actually root for you team to win down the stretch.
I've long ago come to the conclusion that I just very well might go through my lifetime and never witness a Knick championship. Game 7 in '94 might be the zenith of my NYK fandom.
Look at the Lakers. They tried to tank. They were playing Artest big minutes. But winning those meaningless games actually saved them. If they were in the suns postion they would have lost their picks. It's just luck of the draw.
99 EC playoff run - ( New Window )
Quote:
consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
They will have traded 2014 #6 pick, 2016 #3, 2017#1 and next years pick which is a lock to be top 5. That could be the foundation of a team for over a decade. Worst trade in NBA history.
2nd, my crack wasn't a dig at the insufficiency of the Knicks' tanking, or at how they suck so much across the board that they can't even tank properly, albeit I'm aware at how intensely some regular posters either envy or decry full tank mode: the NBA's system is rotten in that draft status is so easily manipulated and the consequences thereof so magnified because with only five on the playing surface, draft golazzos are so outsized in their impact on franchises;
3rd, to the question, "what do you mean (re. Knicks did not try to tank the season)? re. karma is a bitch, for a franchise that:
- is led by an arrogant owner who ignores and insults the fan base by his lack of accountability;
- empowered and shielded Isiah Thomas, both while in and out of office;
- empowered him and others in a culture of harassment and undermining professionals;
- caved to Melo's demand to be traded in season instead of post-season, sapping the Knicks of future pieces with which to build or trade to build
- allowed Melo to dictate ownership decisions on coaching selection
- hiring a neophyte to be GM three years ago in obscene contracts and renewal
- allowed Melo to dictate a no-trade at this stage of his career
- while plainly in rebuilding mode, or what should have been rebuilding mode, signed Rose and Noah
Always the quick and expensive fixes, decisions that displayed lack of savvy and patience. I don't buy for a minute that Knicks' fans would not put up with re-building if it meant an eye for talent, putting pieces together that fit, not being wed to a system that meant discarding talented players.
enuf
i am good with either frank or smith at 8, 2 completely different players
at the start of last year smith was considered a top 5 pick, then the dysfunction at nc state happened and no one is talking about him..
LAL will probably land Paul George (for Russell, Randle).
If not, Melo + Lee for Deng (gotta eat some salary to effectively turn the page from Melo) + Clarkson + Randle. Plus, I think Deng offers some value as a 12 minute a night stretch 4.
LAL:
PG: Ball
SG: Russell, Lee
SF: Ingram
PF: Melo
C: Zubov
NY:
PG: Baker, Ntilikina
SG: Clarkson, Holiday
SF: Jonathan Simmons (via FA), Thomas, Kooz
Bigs: KP, Randle, Hernangomez, Deng, KOQ
i expect them to try and dump demg and mozgov and i expect randle traded to save as much cap space as they can
I really hope not.
hey it may end up helping Knicks
who you rooting for nowadays? golden state? cleveland? boston?
i would rather be a die hard fan of a struggling franchise then a bandwagon jumper...fake ass fan talking shit, laughable
Quote:
(sarcasm off)
who you rooting for nowadays? golden state? cleveland? boston?
i would rather be a die hard fan of a struggling franchise then a bandwagon jumper...fake ass fan talking shit, laughable
lol "fake ass fan talking shit"
I just watch basketball dude, no favorites. Only professional teams I follow closely are the Giants & Yankees.
Enjoy your day :)
Pretty sure he grew up an NC State fan and had family who went there.
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
This seems extremely far fetched from his mock but I'll take it! lol
New York Knicks: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke (Freshman)
8 New York Knicks: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke (Freshman)
Per-game averages: 16.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 45.2 FG%, 34.2 3P%, 4.0 3PA, 84.9 FT%
Height: 6'8"; Weight: 204 lbs; Age: 19 (Mar. 3, 1998)
Tatum's 3-point shooting will determine his long-term stock in NBA, as he made just 34 percent of his attempts in college.
That was a marked improvement from his time as a prep player, however; if he can keep getting better from deep and develop his nascent defensive skills, Tatum will be a force for years to come, because consistency from downtown is the only hole in his game.
If he falls to the Knicks, New York should thank the basketball gods. Yes, this team needs a point guard, but do you really want Phil Jackson, the guy who insists on the Triangle Offense, drafting a point guard for that system?
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
His personality/ego aren't the issue. He's considered a good kid who was knocked a bit for not wanting to speak to the media. His issues are all about his game (and concerns with his knee). He's a big time talent but he's a shoot first PG who didn't play strong defense this season and has only a 6'3 wingspan which limits his defensive upside. I've seen more than one "expert" suggest Smith is neck and neck with Ball as the #2 best PG prospect so it's not as if he's some bum.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. Hes bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isnt as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesnt have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smiths floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesnt get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, hes not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldnt matter all that much right now, either."
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
I feel bad for the DC franchise. Who you rooting for these days Vin? Golden State? Cleveland?
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
Greg I'm with you here. At 8 he's a no-brainer.
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I feel bad for the DC franchise. Who you rooting for these days Vin? Golden State? Cleveland?
New York Giants & Yankees
'73 is of course the last year the Knicks WILL EVER WIN A F*ING CHAMPIONSHIP! I was 10 at the time... and it doesn't seem like just yesterday..
The Knicks could really use a great rebounder on offense?
Did Dennis Rodman play for Phil?
That type, a rebounding monster, especially on the O side.
- maybe a center/forward who can defend the 3 out on the arc on D, (leaving Porz or others to defend under the rim on D) and leaving (porz) free shoot 3s or just move anywhere on O.
better the drafts best center as opposed to 6th best guard?
barring that, the player, any position, with the highest basketball IQ and an 'ability to function in any system' type. a 'glue' player and motivational force.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. Hes bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isnt as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesnt have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smiths floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesnt get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, hes not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldnt matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
We get it, Jon. You love the high floor low-ceiling French guy. Smith was a shoot-first player on NC State out of necessity - who the hell else would you want taking the shots on that team? Terry Henderson? Napoleon DynamiteMaverick Rowan? Hell, like Tjarks said, NC State probably would have been better off if Smith actually HAD played as selfishly as you're accusing him of.
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Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. Hes bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isnt as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesnt have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smiths floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesnt get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, hes not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldnt matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
To me at 8 he's a no-brainer (if the knee checks out). Huge ceiling and floor isn't exactly scrub. Has some elite tools to work with.
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shoot first with an iffy defensive motor is 100% a personality issue.
We get it, Jon. You love the high floor low-ceiling French guy. Smith was a shoot-first player on NC State out of necessity - who the hell else would you want taking the shots on that team? Terry Henderson? Napoleon DynamiteMaverick Rowan? Hell, like Tjarks said, NC State probably would have been better off if Smith actually HAD played as selfishly as you're accusing him of.
Seems like a strange point to attack me on.
I do like frank but that's irrelevant to my opinion of DSJ.
I've been burned enough times by score first PGs who only defend when they want to and are streaky shooters.
"Smith is a nightmare in the open court, changing gears powerfully and being absolutely fearless slashing right to the front of the rim, where he can finish emphatically above the rim, or acrobatically off the glass. He has an excellent first step from a stand-still as well, getting low to the ground, and will often split ball-screens impressively, with a tight handle, excellent footwork, and the ability to take contact at the rim. Smith wasn't especially efficient from the field (50% 2P%), but made up for that at the college level with his ability to get to the free throw line at a strong clip, a product of his aggressiveness with the ball, and willingness to drive into the teeth of the defense to draw fouls. In the half-court, Smith shows promise with his first step, array of fancy ball-handling maneuvers, and an innate ability to operate at different speeds. He wasn't in an ideal situation at N.C. State, being surrounded by three non-shooters almost at all times, in traditional two-big men lineups that clogged the paint and made his team easy to game-plan against. Nevertheless, he posted a solid 6.8 assists per-40 pace adjusted, the fourth best rate in our Top-100, as he is capable of creating space, surveying the floor and passing the ball with either hand out of pick and roll situations, sometimes in very impressive fashion. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/dennis-smith-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5836/ DraftExpress"
DSJ + KP + Willy... do it up.
Smith unquestionably had the higher ceiling.
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Not one instance of even a little lottery luck in over 30 years. Not. Once.
The NBA can eat a dick. I hate it. Love the knicks hate the league.
Did the league decide to play to win in a meaningless final game against the Sixers in the final game of the year? The Knicks can't even tank properly. Don't blame the league for that.
Right. Let's kill the Knicks for playing hard in a PRO NBA game. Killing the Knicks for playing hard in a game. That's where we are now? Is that it?
The mere fact we are even debating that garbage speaks to how awful the NBA truly is. The knicks did nothing wrong down the stretch. Nothing. They even "rested" players more often than not. You can't throw games. You just can't. Throwing a game literally destroys the product. It damages the credibility of the game. The Knicks lost a lot of games down the stretch. They win one or two and fans sit here and actually say the words "the knicks don't deserve a good lottery pick because they won a game in March"
think that through for a second.
Fuck the NBA. It's a garbage league.
Sorry. But that's the truth friends.
Another stupid comment. Yes. The most loyal fans in America deserve to suck because of a flawed lottery system. Yes!
Frenchy would be a nice pick if they already had another elite player to go with Porzingis. They don't, and Frank isn't that guy.
I want the guy who is going to stick in the league and be a valuable contributor for many years. You aren't getting a franchise savior at no. 8.
trade lee or koq to get back in first get justin jackson unc...
dwayne bacon in the 2nd, euro stash with the late 2nd...
smith or frank, bacon, jackson kp willy, fun young team to root for
How many other instances can you name?
Smith unquestionably had the higher ceiling.
Greg said he was the "high floor low-ceiling French guy". You are in agreement.
I dont have an opinion of him but if he's really a low ceiling guy, Im a pass. Get lucky finding role players elsewhere. At 8 you have a shot at someone with a good ceiling. Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Tatum, Smith, Isaac, Fox = 7 guys I'd be happy with, and I could be talked into Monk as a Booker type. Shoot, even Markkanen with his fit problems is better than low ceiling.
'73 is of course the last year the Knicks WILL EVER WIN A F*ING CHAMPIONSHIP! I was 10 at the time... and it doesn't seem like just yesterday..
Dr D. I had the gold puma with black. Hated them
I switched to adidas low top superstars and light blue high top converse all stars
But I was always a huge Clyde fan
I have been saying to no Melo ... BUT if somehow you all can get Josh Jackson ... then a Fultz trade for Jackson and Melo would be beneficial for both teams ...
The Cavs deserve to win year after year? What exactly did they do that was so indicative of forward thinking? Oh that's right, they TRADE AWAY WIGGINS for KEVIN LOVE.
Gimme a break. The Knicks aren't so far behind everyone in terms of scouting and I have news for everyone, most NBA owners are rich fat white guys that wouldn't piss on any of us if we were on fire. Remember that. Dolan is the same as the rest except he picked a fight with the big bad NYC media.
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How many other instances can you name?
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac, DSJ. I'll be disappointed with anyone not in that 7 but I will root for whomever we take. Patton still intrigues me as a shocker but that's probably too high to roll the dice.
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In comment 13473849 Greg from LI said:
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How many other instances can you name?
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
So in the last 5 or so years, you've named 8 players total that were taking 7 of later. Sorry, not convinced that we're getting a game changer at 8. The odds are just overwhelmingly against it.
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In comment 13473776 Vin R said:
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(sarcasm off)
I feel bad for the DC franchise. Who you rooting for these days Vin? Golden State? Cleveland?
New York Giants & Yankees
Weren't you a Pistons fan like the other year?
Would you trade Porzingis to Boston for the Nets picks this year AND next year?
I wouldn't do it for just this year's pick, but I might do it for both.
Forgive the hypothetical amidst legitimate conversation...
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac, DSJ. I'll be disappointed with anyone not in that 7 but I will root for whomever we take. Patton still intrigues me as a shocker but that's probably too high to roll the dice.
I think there are more good players than that, but the only guys I would be disappointed by are Nkitilina and Justin Jackson. I trust the Knicks' European scouting, but I would have an extremely difficult time getting excited about Frank. I wouldn't even consider Justin Jackson (nor should the Knicks), but I saw his name as a consideration in several different articles last night by beat writers.
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be happy with one of
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Isaac, DSJ. I'll be disappointed with anyone not in that 7 but I will root for whomever we take. Patton still intrigues me as a shocker but that's probably too high to roll the dice.
I think there are more good players than that, but the only guys I would be disappointed by are Nkitilina and Justin Jackson. I trust the Knicks' European scouting, but I would have an extremely difficult time getting excited about Frank. I wouldn't even consider Justin Jackson (nor should the Knicks), but I saw his name as a consideration in several different articles last night by beat writers.
I can't imagine the Knicks would really take Justin Jackson at 8. If they really did that then they are destined to suck for a very long time. Even those who like him acknowledge his limited upside. Markkanen simply isn't a good fit, Monk (not a fan for us for reasons I've laid out previously). I guess I'd have to take Monk or Frenhy if "my 7" were off the board but I'd also likely look more closely at guys like Collins or Patton vs. those 2.
Such an important point. Two guys with similar toolboxes are not the same player necessarily.
But when there are doubts about his motor and desire to play defense before he even steps on an NBA floor, that's a major red flag.
Would you trade Porzingis to Boston for the Nets picks this year AND next year?
I wouldn't do it for just this year's pick, but I might do it for both.
Forgive the hypothetical amidst legitimate conversation...
Almost certainly.
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In comment 13473853 Jon in NYC said:
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In comment 13473849 Greg from LI said:
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How many other instances can you name?
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
So in the last 5 or so years, you've named 8 players total that were taking 7 of later. Sorry, not convinced that we're getting a game changer at 8. The odds are just overwhelmingly against it.
Well obviously the odds aren't in favor. Just saying it happens virtually every year. We don't get a break with the lottery balls but maybe we catch one with a sleeper?
Would you trade Porzingis to Boston for the Nets picks this year AND next year?
I wouldn't do it for just this year's pick, but I might do it for both.
Forgive the hypothetical amidst legitimate conversation...
One of my friends asked me this last night, I would. Even this year's pick + brown would be in consideration, would rather have both picks though.
This can't be a serious question. You're questioning the desire of literally every 18 year old of wanting to play defense?
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come into the league with "a desire to play defense"? Anthony Davis?
This can't be a serious question. You're questioning the desire of literally every 18 year old of wanting to play defense?
I'm saying most 18 year olds have the flaw of lapsing or giving up on defense for stretches. Hell every top pick in this draft except maybe Jackson has that flaw. Fultz played jack shit for defense. Ball checked out often. Fox was better than those 2 but he wasn't keyed in 100% of the time on the defensive end either.
2009 - #1 Griffin, #2 Thabeet, #3 Harden, #4 Evans, #5 Rubio. Curry, of course, was #7
2010 - #1 Wall, #2 Turner, #3 Favors, #4 Johnson, #5 Cousins. Monroe at 7, Hayward at 9, and George at 10 were all much better than 2-4.
2011 - #1 Irving, #2 Williams, #3 Kanter, #4 Thompson, #5 Valanciunas. Best players in the draft by a mile, outside of Kyrie, were Kemba at 9 and Kawhi at 15.
2012 - #1 Davis, #2 MK-G, #3 Beal, #4 Waiters, #5 Robinson. Lousy draft overall. Lillard at 6, Draymond in the second round.
2013 - #1 Bennett, #2 Oladipo, #3 Porter, #4 Zeller, #5 Len. Woof. Best players in that one were Giannis at 15 and Gobert at 26.
lakers: ball
sixers: jackson
suns : tatum
kings: fox
magic: isaac
twolves: markannen
knicks: smith or frenchy
70% of the probable top 10 selections played lazy defense. I think Smith is getting the opposite of "East coast bias". Because people watch so many ACC games, he's getting killed for stuff while other guys are getting passes for the same things (especially Fultz).
I don't even want to talk about Smith because I don't want to be disappointed when the Knicks bypass him.
if you take fulz you are not going to max out thomas, so you are kind of drafting a replacement rather than a piece that fits a good team
fox has definitely shot up because of the one game against ucla...
hr made mention that his break up with buss was part of the reason he didnt talk a lot, he said it hurt him
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In comment 13473849 Greg from LI said:
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How many other instances can you name?
Paul George at 10. Klay at 11. Myles Turner at 11. Booker at 13. Giannis and Kawhi ~15. Jokic and Draymond in the 2nd.
If you actually look at it there will usually be a franchise-level player that goes 8 or later more often than not. It's rarely the "consensus" players you think they are though.
Isaiah Thomas belongs on that list too, especially considering his impact vs where he was drafted.
This was Smith's first year back after tearing ACL. He stated he felt he was playing at 85%. He played with no shooters on a bad team but still put up good assist numbers. He also went into Cameron and dominated Duke. Does Fultz have a performance like that?
And for all this talk of defense for point guards, who's the top PG in the NBA that is good at defense aside from CP3? Even people that say Wall are off the mark. Irving, Curry, Harden, IT4 all struggle on defense. The wingspan talk is also a little overblown when the best defensive PG in the league has a 6 foot wingspan. And Fox is not some defensive stopper. He has the tools, but he struggle on defense this year as well.
I think if DSJ falls to 8 then you run to the podium to take him. He checks a lot of the boxes of what you want in a point guard and also fits the profile of a guy who could be a steal in the draft aka dropping unreasonably.
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In comment 13473776 Vin R said:
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(sarcasm off)
who you rooting for nowadays? golden state? cleveland? boston?
i would rather be a die hard fan of a struggling franchise then a bandwagon jumper...fake ass fan talking shit, laughable
lol "fake ass fan talking shit"
I just watch basketball dude, no favorites. Only professional teams I follow closely are the Giants & Yankees.
Enjoy your day :)
I thought you were a die-hard Pistons fan?
if you take fulz you are not going to max out thomas, so you are kind of drafting a replacement rather than a piece that fits a good team
My nightmare scenario has been Josh Jackson to Boston. I hope they go with a PG instead. Jackson can give KP fits, and probably still will assuming Philly takes him. But at least I don't hate Philly as much as Boston.
I think Phil is confident in their drafting ability/process and is looking forward to a new chapter with the team. One comment I found interesting is he thinks they're "set" in the frontcourt, so he obviously sees Willy as a starting piece.
And Jon Givony and Draft Express do a wonderful job.
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
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Yeah exactly. I love Jackson as a prospect but I doubt he ever even covers KP. Not really worried about that. I am worried about Philly having a Lowry, Jackson, Simmons, Saric, Embiid with a strong bench and many more picks to come. In terms of Boston and Philly getting stronger, last night did not go well for the Knicks.
I was also a huge Earl the Pearl fan. Is that you? ;)
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The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
That's mostly because KP catches the ball way too far from the basket to take advantage of his one strength over Green... his height/length. KP has to get stronger (so he can hold position) and his teammates have to do a better job of getting him the ball in the low post. Once KP catches the ball too far from the rim, Green gets so tight, he can't even put the ball on the floor.
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The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
Draymond may be the strongest player in the NBA. He's the best post defender the NBA has seen in a while based on opponent FG%. Jackson is a stud defender but let's not assume he's going from 210 pounds to being the strongest player in the NBA.
Also had 27 against UNC and 31 against Miami. I'm all in on Smith. Would love him at 8.
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In comment 13473979 giantsfan44ab said:
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The draft but how exactly is he going to give KP fits? KP has 7 inches on him. Jacksons wingspan is mediocre. How the hell would he keep KP out of the paint or contest his shots?
I have no idea if Jackson would give KP fits or not but keep in mind Draymond Green is nearly a foot shorter and he seemingly gives KP fits.
Draymond may be the strongest player in the NBA. He's the best post defender the NBA has seen in a while based on opponent FG%. Jackson is a stud defender but let's not assume he's going from 210 pounds to being the strongest player in the NBA.
To be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with your statement per se. Just mentioning a much shorter guy gave KP problems. I'm not too worried about Jackson shutting down KP. I don't recall "Jackson types" really bothering him much.
Nice find. Hopefully the Knicks will grab him.
Would you trade Porzingis to Boston for the Nets picks this year AND next year?
I wouldn't do it for just this year's pick, but I might do it for both.
Forgive the hypothetical amidst legitimate conversation...
In that case.... I think the C's say no.
I like Porzingis, but I'm not certain he is the guy you give away the house for.
Tatum is a tough fit with Simmons and saric. I'd trade back with a team like Orlando or Minnesota and get pieces like hezonja or Dunn in the process.
Or how about this: Dunn and lavine for the #3 pick and maybe some throw ins like anderson, luwawu, stauskas and/or Okafor?
--your GM spend the season beating up your "star" player publicly, damaging the entire team, and probably reducing said player's market value.
--your GM insists on hiring coaches and then forcing an outdated, unpopular system on the team.
--your owner embarrasses himself and a very very popular historic player by essentially tossing him from MSG.
--your "franchise" young player bolts the US blowing off the GM, coach and not being in touch with the franchise since the season ended.
--the team is clearly in a very poor competitive long term position v top teams in the conference including Boston, Philly, Toronto, Cavs, etc.
--the team and franchise culture has been toxic for years.
--while other bottom dwellers work hard at tanking the last few weeks, the Knicks find a way to win just enough to tie for the 6 and 7th picks.
--in the coin flip, for 6, naturally, the Knicks lose.
--in the lottery the team falls a spot to 8
I have been a season ticket holder since 1986, so I am a dedicated fan, but jeez, even I am losing interest, faith, and hope.
Bleacher Report- Frank Ntilikina
CBS- Dennis Smith Jr
Fox Sports- Jayson Tatum
NBA Draft.net- Malik Monk
Who cares what that clown wants?
Good player. Shame the substance abuse issues impacted his career... I rooted for him when he had a brief semi-renaissance with the Celtics.
I was also a huge Earl the Pearl fan. Is that you? ;)
No. Not Earl the Pearl. Earl The Goat Manigault
I played a year of Division 3 basketball 79-80 at Clark Universiry
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Who cares what that clown wants?
Seriously. He sucks.
You gave up on your Pistons then?
#OnceaKnick
if knicks ger 2018 first 2021 firsr 2022 swap and 2023 swap i am good
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Keep hearing more and more buzz about the Knicks interest in Redick. I really hope they don't go down that road.
if knicks ger 2018 first 2021 firsr 2022 swap and 2023 swap i am good
That'd be nice
Carmelo and Lee for Reddick, Rivers, Stone and a shit ton of firsts
Monk is not garbage. He scored at a good clip for 19 year old on the biggest college stage. He has an elite skill in shooting, and getting his own shot. My biggest worry with him is defense. Analytic heads love his game .. he has fans for a reason. He could go #3, Philly could also trade down to get him.
Knitilikina's lack of quickness is a bit worrisome as well. He is versatile though, and a complete player. Great D, team player, but will have to sit for awhile. He's a projection, but the upside is my question.
This said, would you trade #8, #44 for Portland's #15, #20, #26?
Our ESPN analytics team has Jonathan Isaac No. 1 on their draft board
1. Jonathan Isaac, SF, 6-foot-11, 205, Florida State (age on draft day: 20)
Chad Ford Big Board rank: 6
ESPN Analytics draft model rank: 1
Isaac has the top projected Statistical Plus Minus (SPM) for his first five years in the NBA, according to our model, which gives him a 64 percent chance to play at the level of a bona fide NBA starter or better. Isaac has the third-best adjusted defensive rebounding percentage in this draft class and a 55 percent adjusted effective field goal percentage, which is as good as any other small forward in this draft class. His college stats are most similar to those of Otto Porter, who was selected No. 3 by the Washington Wizards in 2013 and was a key piece for a team that finished a win away from the Eastern Conference finals this season.
It is unlikely that Isaac is going to work his way into the top three, but at No. 4, the Phoenix Suns could get a top-quality player should Isaac be available when they're on the clock.
Our ESPN analytics team has Jonathan Isaac No. 1 on their draft board
1. Jonathan Isaac, SF, 6-foot-11, 205, Florida State (age on draft day: 20)
Chad Ford Big Board rank: 6
ESPN Analytics draft model rank: 1
Isaac has the top projected Statistical Plus Minus (SPM) for his first five years in the NBA, according to our model, which gives him a 64 percent chance to play at the level of a bona fide NBA starter or better. Isaac has the third-best adjusted defensive rebounding percentage in this draft class and a 55 percent adjusted effective field goal percentage, which is as good as any other small forward in this draft class. His college stats are most similar to those of Otto Porter, who was selected No. 3 by the Washington Wizards in 2013 and was a key piece for a team that finished a win away from the Eastern Conference finals this season.
It is unlikely that Isaac is going to work his way into the top three, but at No. 4, the Phoenix Suns could get a top-quality player should Isaac be available when they're on the clock.
2. Malik Monk, SG, 6-foot-3, 185, Kentucky (age on draft day: 19)
Chad Ford Big Board rank: 7
ESPN Analytics draft model rank: 3
Our data has shown guards to be more difficult to project than big men at the next level, as some guards are able to transfer their shooting to the NBA while others possess shooting flaws that aren't exposed until they play against bigger and faster defenses in the NBA. That said, the model gives Monk just a 25 percent chance of being a bust, which is the second-smallest figure in this draft for a guard after Lonzo Ball. Compared to the other top-60 players on Chad Ford's Big Board, Monk is unique because he lacks any glaring weaknesses statistically, but the only statistic in which he really stands out is his having a low turnover percentage.
Ford has the Philadelphia 76ers taking Monk at No. 3 in his latest mock draft, and our model agrees that he is one of the three best players in the draft.
it's moot if he doesn't have any interest in NY.
He's "only" made about $55 million in his career...so that tells me he's taking the best offer this summer.
Monk is not garbage. He scored at a good clip for 19 year old on the biggest college stage. He has an elite skill in shooting, and getting his own shot. My biggest worry with him is defense. Analytic heads love his game .. he has fans for a reason. He could go #3, Philly could also trade down to get him.
Knitilikina's lack of quickness is a bit worrisome as well. He is versatile though, and a complete player. Great D, team player, but will have to sit for awhile. He's a projection, but the upside is my question.
This said, would you trade #8, #44 for Portland's #15, #20, #26?
Depends who is left on the board. For me if our choices are Monk/Frenchy or the trade I'd do that trade. If someone unexpected falls I it would suck if we passed.
I played a year of Division 3 basketball 79-80 at Clark Universiry
Goat died a long time ago.
This year's pick would be off the table, and I have no idea how the salary would or even could work, but future unprotected picks might be gettable and there's still a solid chance that the NO team busts in the tough west.
Agreed. I pull the trigger if Smith if off the board.
Rubio still wants out? Melo/Noah package to Minnesota? Thibs is a Melo fan #Knicks
This year's pick would be off the table, and I have no idea how the salary would or even could work, but future unprotected picks might be gettable and there's still a solid chance that the NO team busts in the tough west.
You can definitely make the salaries work but the Knicks would have to take back some awful contracts- some combo of Asik/Solomon Hill/ Ajica/ Moore. You could even go all in and include Lee and take all 4 back. But the Knicks would need at least 3 future 1st I would think. And I doubt Melo wants to go there but who knows. Pelicans lineup could be-
Cousins
Davis
Melo
Lee
Holiday
They could use the MLE for a bench guy but it would still be weak. That 5 would be really dangerous though. Far fetched but fun to think about.
I have to point out a couple things. First, you made a comment earlier that Jaylen Brown was a bust. He's not. He's a 20 year old rotation player on one of the last 4 teams left. He's going to be a good player. He was raw coming out but everyone sees his ability.
Second, what the team needs is a go-to scorer, above all else. Fultz can play off the ball. Thomas can play off the ball too. It's not a problem. They'll probably end up trading Bradley or Smart. They aren't trading down and they aren't trading Thomas. Having too many good guards is a high class problem to have.
Melo's accepting a trade to Minnesota?
Rubio still wants out? Melo/Noah package to Minnesota? Thibs is a Melo fan #Knicks
That's bad for us. It potentially puts Minny back in the PG market at #7.
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of salt but according to Wolfson, Rubio will ask to be traded.
Rubio still wants out? Melo/Noah package to Minnesota? Thibs is a Melo fan #Knicks
That's bad for us. It potentially puts Minny back in the PG market at #7.
They just took Dunn last year. Tough to see them moving on so quickly.
Whoops.
Meant but it's tough to see any trade now that Rose is gone.
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and Noah to Minnesota for Rubio (2 years), Pekovic (1 year), Dieng, Aldrich, Jordan Hill and Minnesota's 2019 1st round pick.
Melo's accepting a trade to Minnesota?
Again, like any of the other non-Spurs/Cavs/Warriors the Wolves with Melo (and he has a friendly relationship with Thibs) are as good as bet as "any" to be an interesting team (yeah maybe even contend)
KAT/Wiggins/Melo/LaVine and whomever they pick at 7 + Dunn, Dieng, Bjelica. Maybe he says no but it's worth looking into.
Do that in a heartbeat. But I don't even think Thibs is trading for Noah at this point. Sadly I think the Knicks would have to be the ones including a pick in this trade.
I don't think its outrageous that Melo would accept a trade to Minny though.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13474270 DanMetroMan said:
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of salt but according to Wolfson, Rubio will ask to be traded.
Rubio still wants out? Melo/Noah package to Minnesota? Thibs is a Melo fan #Knicks
That's bad for us. It potentially puts Minny back in the PG market at #7.
They just took Dunn last year. Tough to see them moving on so quickly.
I hate saying this about a kid after on year and I wont write him off completely, but Dunn sucks. Hard. Here are two rookie PG seasons:
Player A: 22 years old, 78 games, 7 starts, 17.1 mpg, 1333 minutes total. Per 36 numbers 7.9 points, 5.1 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 2.4 TOV, 2.1 steals, .404/.288/.610 shooting from 2/3/FT. 8.1 PER, .004 WS48.
Player B: 23 years old, 76 games, 6 starts, 16.6 mpg, 1265 minutes total. Per 36 numbers: 12.1 points, 5 assists, 4.1 rebounds, 2.5 TOV, 1.4 steals, .454/.220/.780 shooting. 11.2 PER, .030 WS48.
A is Dunn, B is Jerian Grant. Grant was better as a rookie than Dunn, particularly on offense/scoring. And most Knicks fans view Grant as basically worthless in justifying the Rose trade. Now I wasnt one of them, but if Grant would have been a rookie on NYK putting up those numbers this year, I wouldnt hesitate for a minute to take Smith, Fox etc.
BTW, since I really got mocked hard for my thoughts on Grant, this year he bumped his shooting to .473/.366/.890. PER 13.1 and WS48 .118 (indicating a guy who should be starting but not a standout at all). He's 6'4 and can defend and can get to the rim. We gave up on him too soon.
He's going to get his, just give it time.
Probably Minny. I still can't believe the Knicks had a chance to trade Rose for Rubio and couldn't get it done.
Ian Begley, ESPN Staff Writer
That might be a trade Minny takes. On talent they turn it down. But Rubes is asking out. I'd still be worried about his knee.
He would be a great add here if we are not going PG at 8.
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for Rubio, who says no?
That might be a trade Minny takes. On talent they turn it down. But Rubes is asking out. I'd still be worried about his knee.
He would be a great add here if we are not going PG at 8.
I know you and I both agree that Lee has more value than some are suggesting but if this were possible I'd have to pull the trigger.
I just think he would be good for KP and Willy, developmentally. Because of his passing and D.
that opens up more options at 8..
I would do it but I think Minny says no. 5 year difference in ages is not insignificant.
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for Rubio, who says no?
I would do it but I think Minny says no. 5 year difference in ages is not insignificant.
But at the same time Rubio is an expiring and I highly doubt Minny will go out of their way to match his next deal. Lee would give them defense and floor spacing, their 2 biggest issues right now.
Rubio is not an expiring
He's on the books for this year 201-18 and 2018-19 at approximately 15 million per
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In comment 13474312 DanMetroMan said:
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for Rubio, who says no?
I would do it but I think Minny says no. 5 year difference in ages is not insignificant.
But at the same time Rubio is an expiring and I highly doubt Minny will go out of their way to match his next deal. Lee would give them defense and floor spacing, their 2 biggest issues right now.
But rather because the goal is the future. I want that shot at a diamond in the rough at 44. This is a deep draft, so 44 may net you a good player. May net you a great player. I'd rather just keep the scratch off ticket, and move Lee for a future #1 or several #2s.
But could we really get Oubre for Melo?
No thank you on Lavine and his ACL
Rubio is not what this team is looking for or else Phil would've made the deal in Feb
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rubio lavine and 2018 top 3 protected for lee and 8?
No thank you on Lavine and his ACL
Rubio is not what this team is looking for or else Phil would've made the deal in Feb
Phil wanted to make the deal. He was ok with Rose for Rubio. Wolves said no.
Very true. My guess is they'll share joint legal custody but physical custody will belong to Lala. In the end, I think it'll depend on where Lala and Kiyan want to live.
Connelly saying that if they find a player that is impactful at 8 or 9 they will look to move up if possible.
Connelly saying that if they find a player that is impactful at 8 or 9 they will look to move up if possible.
Mudiay and #14 for #8?
Would you do it?
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T.J. McBride @BSN_McBride
Connelly saying that if they find a player that is impactful at 8 or 9 they will look to move up if possible.
Mudiay and #14 for #8?
Would you do it?
*13
Gross.
Gross.
I'm sure Phil would love Jackson. Haha
What about Murray and #13? Or Juan Hernangomez? Nuggets aren't really short on young talent.
Gross.
I agree, but have you not seen the articles in the News AND Post that include Jackson as someone the Knicks are considering with the EIGHTH pick?
if nuggets offered murray and 13 i would feally have to think about it..
murray mudiay and 13 for 8 and i think i do it...
if nuggets offered murray and 13 i would feally have to think about it..
murray mudiay and 13 for 8 and i think i do it...
PG - Mudiay
SG - Murray
SF - Justin Jackson (most likely)
PF - Porzingis
C - Hernangomez
That's not terrible. Not terrible at all. Very young but at least we'd have the building blocks in place.
If the usual suspects are gone by the pick, it'd be between Smith and Monk for me.
And grab Kobi Simmons with one of the second rounders. We really need an infusion of athletic backcourt players, BADLY.
From the NY Times
"Diallo, a Queens native, did half of a postgraduate year at Putnam Science before enrolling for the spring semester at Kentucky, where he only practiced with the team as it advanced to the N.C.A.A. tournament, even though he would have been eligible to play.
It was mostly my choice, Diallo said of sitting out. Just coming into a season with a team that has some chemistry flowing, a team thats been together a whole summer and a semester, just coming in and trying to input myself right away wouldnt be right for me and wouldnt be right for those guys.
And grab Kobi Simmons with one of the second rounders. We really need an infusion of athletic backcourt players, BADLY.
What are you talking about? We have Ron Baker.
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ehy didnt he play college basketball?
From the NY Times
"Diallo, a Queens native, did half of a postgraduate year at Putnam Science before enrolling for the spring semester at Kentucky, where he only practiced with the team as it advanced to the N.C.A.A. tournament, even though he would have been eligible to play.
It was mostly my choice, Diallo said of sitting out. Just coming into a season with a team that has some chemistry flowing, a team thats been together a whole summer and a semester, just coming in and trying to input myself right away wouldnt be right for me and wouldnt be right for those guys.
thanks
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
Giannis?
Lakers have picked #2 overall in three straight years
Knicks have picked #4, #8 and have traded their first rounder for Andrea fucking Bargnani
#Where'stheJustice?
Rubio wasn't picked 8th though?
Lakers have picked #2 overall in three straight years
Knicks have picked #4, #8 and have traded their first rounder for Andrea fucking Bargnani
#Where'stheJustice?
I'm not an expert, but haven't the 76ers done a much better job of putting themselves in position to pick in the top 3 than us? They appear to have been infinitely better run the past few years.
They didn't even win the lottery this year - the Kings did. But oh yeah, the 76ers actually traded for those swap rights by giving away two fucking late 2nd round picks in 2015 - and they get an unconditional 1st rounder from the inept Kings in 2 years too. They also still have a Lakers 1st rounder coming, which may or may not end up being top 10.
When was the last time the Knicks actually made a forward-thinking trade that maximized their chances with lottery balls?
It's just that European guards rarely become offensive dynamos here in the NBA. If versatility and defensive potential are enough for you for the 8th pick, I guess he'd be the guy for you.
Giannis, Batum, Petrovic, Calderon, Rubio come to mind. In any event, you dont need precedent like that. What was the precedent for German power forwards before Dirk went top 10? "Other than Detlef..."
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but he's better than half of the historical #8 overall picks someone posted earlier.
Rubio wasn't picked 8th though?
Rubio IS European.
The Lakers were just more inept than us. The difference was basically Melo. With a player like Melo you'll just never lose enough games to be that bad.
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Sixers pick in the top 3 every year
Lakers have picked #2 overall in three straight years
Knicks have picked #4, #8 and have traded their first rounder for Andrea fucking Bargnani
#Where'stheJustice?
I'm not an expert, but haven't the 76ers done a much better job of putting themselves in position to pick in the top 3 than us? They appear to have been infinitely better run the past few years.
They didn't even win the lottery this year - the Kings did. But oh yeah, the 76ers actually traded for those swap rights by giving away two fucking late 2nd round picks in 2015 - and they get an unconditional 1st rounder from the inept Kings in 2 years too. They also still have a Lakers 1st rounder coming, which may or may not end up being top 10.
When was the last time the Knicks actually made a forward-thinking trade that maximized their chances with lottery balls?
when your rebuilding you make trades like that, the knicks plan was always quick fixes, even donnie walsh who everyone thinks did a good job made horrible trades giving up 1st round picks and future picks
2007 - Joakim Noah 9th
2008 - Brook Lopez 10th
2009 - DeMar DeRozan 9th
2010 - Gordon Heyward 9th, Paul George 10th
2011 - Kemba Walker 9th, Klay Thompson 11th, Kawhi Leonard 15th
2012 - Andre Drummond 9th
2013 - CJ McCollum 10th, Steven Adams 12th, Greek Freak 15th
2014- Dario Saric 12th, Zach LaVine 13th
2015 - Myles Turner 11th, Devin Booker 13th
I'm sure we would all gladly sign up for any of those guys.
what else could they have done? they were not going to catch orlando or philly and they were playing d league players down the stretch...
they beat chicago and miami because of sasha fucking vujacic, what else could they have done...
this is like blaming phil for tim hardaway going off
The Lakers were just more inept than us. The difference was basically Melo. With a player like Melo you'll just never lose enough games to be that bad.
Yeah I'm thoroughly confused. The 76ers tank accomplished nothing. They didn't win the lottery. A truly great, forward thinking trade two years ago got them into the top 3
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Though I dont think they tried to lose this year. It's just that they got 31 games out of their two great talents, and the rest of the roster was very inexperienced.
The Lakers were just more inept than us. The difference was basically Melo. With a player like Melo you'll just never lose enough games to be that bad.
Yeah I'm thoroughly confused. The 76ers tank accomplished nothing. They didn't win the lottery. A truly great, forward thinking trade two years ago got them into the top 3
The tank won them the lottery last year. And this year was not an attempted tank like last year. Simmons got Hurt and Embiid played less than half the season.