that they'd fall in a 5th lottery. Given that the odds of moving up are better. It's crazy. If we get Frenchy, I'm fine, though. They still need to get more picks.
The league would be a lot more interesting if they changed up the system of determining draft order completely.
If they took lets say the eight teams with the worst records with two weeks to go and let them have their own "playoff run" for draft order it would be exciting for their fans and eliminate completely teams tanking. Teams would be fighting to win the first pick, second, etc.
That's actually a pretty great idea. Let the draft order of the top 5 picks be decided by the W-L record of the worst 5 teams in their last 15 games. Highest W-L record in those games picks first, etc. This way you could actually root for you team to win down the stretch.
RE: Maybe one year the Knicks will luck out in the lottery Â
And, in typical Knick fashion, it'll be in a year where there are no consensus "franchise type" players.
I've long ago come to the conclusion that I just very well might go through my lifetime and never witness a Knick championship. Game 7 in '94 might be the zenith of my NYK fandom.
At least the 99 playoff run was amazing. 2 of the best moments in my life as a sports fan were Houston's floater and LJ's 4 point play.
I agree the Knicks should have done more to tank by buying out Rose and shutting Melo completely down. Melo himself contributed to a few wins down the stretch. But they were still playing some complete scrubs. I would just feel better if they were picking 5th or 6th.
Look at the Lakers. They tried to tank. They were playing Artest big minutes. But winning those meaningless games actually saved them. If they were in the suns postion they would have lost their picks. It's just luck of the draw.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
They will have traded 2014 #6 pick, 2016 #3, 2017#1 and next years pick which is a lock to be top 5. That could be the foundation of a team for over a decade. Worst trade in NBA history.
1st, I kind of regret my drive by potshot in this thread, because it comes across as a dig vs. loyal Knicks' fans, and that was not my intention at all: it was intended as a shot at the way this franchise has been run, more on that below, so I apologize for appearing to kick the dog while it is down--to the fans, but not to the franchise
2nd, my crack wasn't a dig at the insufficiency of the Knicks' tanking, or at how they suck so much across the board that they can't even tank properly, albeit I'm aware at how intensely some regular posters either envy or decry full tank mode: the NBA's system is rotten in that draft status is so easily manipulated and the consequences thereof so magnified because with only five on the playing surface, draft golazzos are so outsized in their impact on franchises;
3rd, to the question, "what do you mean (re. Knicks did not try to tank the season)? re. karma is a bitch, for a franchise that:
- is led by an arrogant owner who ignores and insults the fan base by his lack of accountability;
- empowered and shielded Isiah Thomas, both while in and out of office;
- empowered him and others in a culture of harassment and undermining professionals;
- caved to Melo's demand to be traded in season instead of post-season, sapping the Knicks of future pieces with which to build or trade to build
- allowed Melo to dictate ownership decisions on coaching selection
- hiring a neophyte to be GM three years ago in obscene contracts and renewal
- allowed Melo to dictate a no-trade at this stage of his career
- while plainly in rebuilding mode, or what should have been rebuilding mode, signed Rose and Noah
Always the quick and expensive fixes, decisions that displayed lack of savvy and patience. I don't buy for a minute that Knicks' fans would not put up with re-building if it meant an eye for talent, putting pieces together that fit, not being wed to a system that meant discarding talented players.
enuf
Have I mentioned how much I hate the NBA lately? Â
said if the right offer came they woupd consider moving down, says the team has its bigs, now time to get some guards and wing players, also said it is time for more youth...
i am good with either frank or smith at 8, 2 completely different players
of course i really wanted Fultz or Fox, but i dont think Frank or Smith are bad picks. At least on paper this is a pretty good lottery, i can think of a few years lately where the 8th pick would have felt like 17.
of course i really wanted Fultz or Fox, but i dont think Frank or Smith are bad picks. At least on paper this is a pretty good lottery, i can think of a few years lately where the 8th pick would have felt like 17.
at the start of last year smith was considered a top 5 pick, then the dysfunction at nc state happened and no one is talking about him..
has a horse shoe up their ass (NYK has a hand grenade).
LAL will probably land Paul George (for Russell, Randle).
If not, Melo + Lee for Deng (gotta eat some salary to effectively turn the page from Melo) + Clarkson + Randle. Plus, I think Deng offers some value as a 12 minute a night stretch 4.
Skill set wise, he is universally billed as having elite athleticism, adequate size (not necessarily long, but a solid 6'2"), a developing J, and a good passer/defender if motivated. Perhaps that is a big if.
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
Tatum's 3-point shooting will determine his long-term stock in NBA, as he made just 34 percent of his attempts in college.
That was a marked improvement from his time as a prep player, however; if he can keep getting better from deep and develop his nascent defensive skills, Tatum will be a force for years to come, because consistency from downtown is the only hole in his game.
If he falls to the Knicks, New York should thank the basketball gods. Yes, this team needs a point guard, but do you really want Phil Jackson, the guy who insists on the Triangle Offense, drafting a point guard for that system?
fact that #4 thru #10 of the draft seam to be all interchangeable to a degree makes me less upset about dropping a spot, but man is it a kick in the balls that every time something can potentially go well, it doesn't. 7 draft lotteries in the last 15 years, never move up, 3 times move down and toss in the silly 50/50 lottery a couple weeks ago with Minnesota and we cant win that one. I try and tell myself not to get any bit optimistic watching these things, but of course that can't be contained and then comes the inescapable letdown. I understand how probability works, and that despite getting a negative outcome 7 out of the last 7 lottery attempts that the odds of a positive outcome weren't going to go up for this last drawing, but damn....
Skill set wise, he is universally billed as having elite athleticism, adequate size (not necessarily long, but a solid 6'2"), a developing J, and a good passer/defender if motivated. Perhaps that is a big if.
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
His personality/ego aren't the issue. He's considered a good kid who was knocked a bit for not wanting to speak to the media. His issues are all about his game (and concerns with his knee). He's a big time talent but he's a shoot first PG who didn't play strong defense this season and has only a 6'3 wingspan which limits his defensive upside. I've seen more than one "expert" suggest Smith is neck and neck with Ball as the #2 best PG prospect so it's not as if he's some bum.
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. He’s bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isn’t as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesn’t have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smith’s floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesn’t get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, he’s not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldn’t matter all that much right now, either."
Offensively, Smith is close to the total package Â
He's an explosive player who can finish at the rim but also plays within the offense and looks to set up his teammates. All he really needs to do is tighten up his shooting a bit, which is now pretty good but not great.
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
He's an explosive player who can finish at the rim but also plays within the offense and looks to set up his teammates. All he really needs to do is tighten up his shooting a bit, which is now pretty good but not great.
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
limited edition blue suede Clyde Frazier Pumas. I had once told her that I wore Pumas when I played in school back in the day because of Clyde. She (a "sneakerhead" and pretty good PG) said they only made 73 of them.
'73 is of course the last year the Knicks WILL EVER WIN A F*ING CHAMPIONSHIP! I was 10 at the time... and it doesn't seem like just yesterday..
but if it seems like 1-7 are guards and so forth, maybe switch it up and take a center or forward at 8?
The Knicks could really use a great rebounder on offense?
Did Dennis Rodman play for Phil?
That type, a rebounding monster, especially on the O side.
- maybe a center/forward who can defend the 3 out on the arc on D, (leaving Porz or others to defend under the rim on D) and leaving (porz) free shoot 3s or just move anywhere on O.
better the drafts best center as opposed to 6th best guard?
barring that, the player, any position, with the highest basketball IQ and an 'ability to function in any system' type. a 'glue' player and motivational force.
but the difference between 5, 6, 7, and 8 isnt much. We dont get our pick of player, but this strikes me as one of those drafts where there is a huge second tier.
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. He’s bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isn’t as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesn’t have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smith’s floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesn’t get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, he’s not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldn’t matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
shoot first with an iffy defensive motor is 100% a personality issue.
We get it, Jon. You love the high floor low-ceiling French guy. Smith was a shoot-first player on NC State out of necessity - who the hell else would you want taking the shots on that team? Terry Henderson? Napoleon DynamiteMaverick Rowan? Hell, like Tjarks said, NC State probably would have been better off if Smith actually HAD played as selfishly as you're accusing him of.
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. He’s bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isn’t as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesn’t have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smith’s floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesn’t get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, he’s not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldn’t matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
To me at 8 he's a no-brainer (if the knee checks out). Huge ceiling and floor isn't exactly scrub. Has some elite tools to work with.
That ability to shrug off two decades of failure and still come back every year thinking this is the year something good happens is pretty incredible.
then what about the lakers and celtics.... did they not catch their breaks yet?
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Quote:
consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Is the Nets pick at all lottery protected next year?
Quote:
In comment 13473473 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Is the Nets pick at all lottery protected next year?
No. they fucking suck.
Quote:
consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
Hahahahaha. Culture.
You are something else with this crap. But hey, if it gets you through the day, more power to ya!
If they took lets say the eight teams with the worst records with two weeks to go and let them have their own "playoff run" for draft order it would be exciting for their fans and eliminate completely teams tanking. Teams would be fighting to win the first pick, second, etc.
That's actually a pretty great idea. Let the draft order of the top 5 picks be decided by the W-L record of the worst 5 teams in their last 15 games. Highest W-L record in those games picks first, etc. This way you could actually root for you team to win down the stretch.
I've long ago come to the conclusion that I just very well might go through my lifetime and never witness a Knick championship. Game 7 in '94 might be the zenith of my NYK fandom.
Look at the Lakers. They tried to tank. They were playing Artest big minutes. But winning those meaningless games actually saved them. If they were in the suns postion they would have lost their picks. It's just luck of the draw.
99 EC playoff run - ( New Window )
Quote:
consider what Nets fans are feeling right now.
Not feeling too bad- lots of time to come to terms with giving up the first pick in the draft throughout the season
Happy the team is moving in the right direction. #culture
They will have traded 2014 #6 pick, 2016 #3, 2017#1 and next years pick which is a lock to be top 5. That could be the foundation of a team for over a decade. Worst trade in NBA history.
2nd, my crack wasn't a dig at the insufficiency of the Knicks' tanking, or at how they suck so much across the board that they can't even tank properly, albeit I'm aware at how intensely some regular posters either envy or decry full tank mode: the NBA's system is rotten in that draft status is so easily manipulated and the consequences thereof so magnified because with only five on the playing surface, draft golazzos are so outsized in their impact on franchises;
3rd, to the question, "what do you mean (re. Knicks did not try to tank the season)? re. karma is a bitch, for a franchise that:
- is led by an arrogant owner who ignores and insults the fan base by his lack of accountability;
- empowered and shielded Isiah Thomas, both while in and out of office;
- empowered him and others in a culture of harassment and undermining professionals;
- caved to Melo's demand to be traded in season instead of post-season, sapping the Knicks of future pieces with which to build or trade to build
- allowed Melo to dictate ownership decisions on coaching selection
- hiring a neophyte to be GM three years ago in obscene contracts and renewal
- allowed Melo to dictate a no-trade at this stage of his career
- while plainly in rebuilding mode, or what should have been rebuilding mode, signed Rose and Noah
Always the quick and expensive fixes, decisions that displayed lack of savvy and patience. I don't buy for a minute that Knicks' fans would not put up with re-building if it meant an eye for talent, putting pieces together that fit, not being wed to a system that meant discarding talented players.
enuf
i am good with either frank or smith at 8, 2 completely different players
at the start of last year smith was considered a top 5 pick, then the dysfunction at nc state happened and no one is talking about him..
LAL will probably land Paul George (for Russell, Randle).
If not, Melo + Lee for Deng (gotta eat some salary to effectively turn the page from Melo) + Clarkson + Randle. Plus, I think Deng offers some value as a 12 minute a night stretch 4.
LAL:
PG: Ball
SG: Russell, Lee
SF: Ingram
PF: Melo
C: Zubov
NY:
PG: Baker, Ntilikina
SG: Clarkson, Holiday
SF: Jonathan Simmons (via FA), Thomas, Kooz
Bigs: KP, Randle, Hernangomez, Deng, KOQ
i expect them to try and dump demg and mozgov and i expect randle traded to save as much cap space as they can
I really hope not.
hey it may end up helping Knicks
who you rooting for nowadays? golden state? cleveland? boston?
i would rather be a die hard fan of a struggling franchise then a bandwagon jumper...fake ass fan talking shit, laughable
Quote:
(sarcasm off)
who you rooting for nowadays? golden state? cleveland? boston?
i would rather be a die hard fan of a struggling franchise then a bandwagon jumper...fake ass fan talking shit, laughable
lol "fake ass fan talking shit"
I just watch basketball dude, no favorites. Only professional teams I follow closely are the Giants & Yankees.
Enjoy your day :)
Pretty sure he grew up an NC State fan and had family who went there.
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
This seems extremely far fetched from his mock but I'll take it! lol
New York Knicks: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke (Freshman)
8 New York Knicks: Jayson Tatum, SF, Duke (Freshman)
Per-game averages: 16.8 points, 7.3 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 45.2 FG%, 34.2 3P%, 4.0 3PA, 84.9 FT%
Height: 6'8"; Weight: 204 lbs; Age: 19 (Mar. 3, 1998)
Tatum's 3-point shooting will determine his long-term stock in NBA, as he made just 34 percent of his attempts in college.
That was a marked improvement from his time as a prep player, however; if he can keep getting better from deep and develop his nascent defensive skills, Tatum will be a force for years to come, because consistency from downtown is the only hole in his game.
If he falls to the Knicks, New York should thank the basketball gods. Yes, this team needs a point guard, but do you really want Phil Jackson, the guy who insists on the Triangle Offense, drafting a point guard for that system?
Question: personality wise, is he outgoing? humble enough to work? facilitate as opposed to just be a ME player?
As we move on from Derrick Rose (and hopefully, Melo) I want to avoid re-adding similar egos.
His personality/ego aren't the issue. He's considered a good kid who was knocked a bit for not wanting to speak to the media. His issues are all about his game (and concerns with his knee). He's a big time talent but he's a shoot first PG who didn't play strong defense this season and has only a 6'3 wingspan which limits his defensive upside. I've seen more than one "expert" suggest Smith is neck and neck with Ball as the #2 best PG prospect so it's not as if he's some bum.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. He’s bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isn’t as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesn’t have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smith’s floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesn’t get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, he’s not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldn’t matter all that much right now, either."
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
I feel bad for the DC franchise. Who you rooting for these days Vin? Golden State? Cleveland?
He wasn't good defensively, but then no one who plays for Mark Gottfried ever is. He probably won't ever be a plus defender, but he should be able to at least be adequate there.
Greg I'm with you here. At 8 he's a no-brainer.
Quote:
(sarcasm off)
I feel bad for the DC franchise. Who you rooting for these days Vin? Golden State? Cleveland?
New York Giants & Yankees
'73 is of course the last year the Knicks WILL EVER WIN A F*ING CHAMPIONSHIP! I was 10 at the time... and it doesn't seem like just yesterday..
The Knicks could really use a great rebounder on offense?
Did Dennis Rodman play for Phil?
That type, a rebounding monster, especially on the O side.
- maybe a center/forward who can defend the 3 out on the arc on D, (leaving Porz or others to defend under the rim on D) and leaving (porz) free shoot 3s or just move anywhere on O.
better the drafts best center as opposed to 6th best guard?
barring that, the player, any position, with the highest basketball IQ and an 'ability to function in any system' type. a 'glue' player and motivational force.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. He’s bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isn’t as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesn’t have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smith’s floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesn’t get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, he’s not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldn’t matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
We get it, Jon. You love the high floor low-ceiling French guy. Smith was a shoot-first player on NC State out of necessity - who the hell else would you want taking the shots on that team? Terry Henderson? Napoleon DynamiteMaverick Rowan? Hell, like Tjarks said, NC State probably would have been better off if Smith actually HAD played as selfishly as you're accusing him of.
Quote:
Smith is there at 8 you take him and slap 5. Flaws and all this isn't an 8th overall talent. This is a kid who could have been in the mix for #1.
Tjarks
"To be sure, Fultz is a better prospect than Smith. He’s bigger, longer, and a much better shooter. However, the difference between Smith and Ball and Fox isn’t as wide as commonly perceived. Smith doesn’t have as defined a weakness as Ball, whose lack of quickness in comparison to many primary ball handlers was exposed by Fox in the NCAA tournament, or Fox, who has to become a much better shooter. Smith’s floor is higher than both because his elite athletic ability and well-rounded skill set means he will be able to run an NBA offense at a high level even if he doesn’t get any better. If he plays in a spread pick-and-roll offense with a stretch 4 and a rim-rolling 5, he’s not going to have any trouble slicing up a defense. While Smith will never be great defensively, if he can become even average, he has a chance to be an All-Star-caliber player. In five years, no one will care how good his college team was. It shouldn’t matter all that much right now, either."
For most of the season I feel like Smith was right there in the top 5 group. Ahead of Fox in many mocks.
To me at 8 he's a no-brainer (if the knee checks out). Huge ceiling and floor isn't exactly scrub. Has some elite tools to work with.