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NFT: NYK prospects - Hindu Theory

Pep22 : 5/18/2017 8:07 am
Just trying to spark some opinions.

Assume Fullz, Ball, Fox, Jackson, Tatum are gone.

Monk - I don't think the NYK can afford to take him. Too one dimensional. He'll probably be a good bench scorer. Hindu Theory: Monte Ellis.

Ntilikina - does not look like a PG to me, but I do love his D and shooting stroke based on the clips. Also seems very intuitive in terms of understanding of the game. Great motor. Hindu Theory: Khris Middleton.

Isaac - I think he's a hair better than last years # 2 overall Brandon Ingram but similar. Hindu Theory: Scottie Pippen offensively and an above average (not transcendent)
defender.

Smith - Much discussion in the NYK thread about him. Is he Steve Francis (not a great compliment) or is he a young Derrick Rose? I really do not have a great feel for this player and I know others on this board do so I defer.

Sleepers for NYK Pick:

Donovan Mitchell. Hindu Theory: Avery Bradley.

OG Anunoby. Would be a trade down scenario i.e. # 8 for all of Portland's picks. Hindu Theory: Reminds me of Kahwi Leonard when he came in the league. If we can walk out of the draft with Portland's picks spent on Anunoby + TJ Leaf + Derrick White, that to me is better than getting Monk or Smith.



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RE: Knicks  
Anakim : 5/18/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13475378 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
will not participate in LV. Berman claims Phil hates it there.


Off to Orlando!
RE: Knicks  
Deej : 5/18/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13475378 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
will not participate in LV. Berman claims Phil hates it there.


He should retire. We're not going to LV because he cant travel.
We were in Orlando last year, too.  
bceagle05 : 5/18/2017 1:52 pm : link
I remember watching those games on MSG - it was like a middle school gymnasium. Crispino and Clyde were calling the game from the MSG studio. The team sucked too - Ronnie Baker was the big name. This year's should be more compelling.
RE: Knicks  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/18/2017 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13475378 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
will not participate in LV. Berman claims Phil hates it there.


I think I hate this more than the Noah signing.
RE: We were in Orlando last year, too.  
Anakim : 5/18/2017 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13475429 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I remember watching those games on MSG - it was like a middle school gymnasium. Crispino and Clyde were calling the game from the MSG studio. The team sucked too - Ronnie Baker was the big name. This year's should be more compelling.


Chasson Randle too. Last year's team was awful. Hopefully it'll be more fun to watch this year given that we have three draft picks.
RE: I'd be pretty  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/18/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13475201 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
stunned if Willy is moved. He is a building block with pretty unreal per/48 numbers.


Based on Phil's comments after the lottery, he sees Willy as a building block and isn't really considering a 4 or 5 in the draft.
RE: RE: Knicks  
Enzo : 5/18/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13475421 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13475378 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


will not participate in LV. Berman claims Phil hates it there.



He should retire. We're not going to LV because he cant travel.

$12 million a year for this. For that money, you could have your pick of nearly any front office guy in the league...I don't care how bad the owner is.
so, guessing, in the 1980s it was about 33% league wide  
idiotsavant : 5/18/2017 2:00 pm : link
and now about %25 or %26.

which may be why the triangle doesn't work now. So, we may be higher than the league, but that's probably because Phil wants to go even higher.

but it can cycle back just like running in football, especially as you don't want to waste a porzingas by asking him to live and die by his own rebounds, near the basket, when that's not his thing and he has other stregths
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 2:00 pm : link
wonder if they bother with Labeyrie again?
RE: I  
Anakim : 5/18/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13475445 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wonder if they bother with Labeyrie again?


Loose labia? Why the fuck not? Let him play in Orlando. Couldn't hurt.



And geez, Early, Thanasis and Labeyrie. Yikes. Could've had Jokic or Clarkson over Early.
RE: RE: Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 5/18/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13475431 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13475378 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


will not participate in LV. Berman claims Phil hates it there.



I think I hate this more than the Noah signing.


I don't think this is a big deal in the scheme of things, but all this stuff adds up. Woj and others always talk about how a part of being a successful GM is building relationships. Summer league in Vegas is an opportunity for that and Phil clearly has no interest in it.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 2:04 pm : link
unbelievable the return rate on the 30-40 range of the draft vs. the 45-60 range. You would think it's closer than it is.
RE: RE: RE: Knicks  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/18/2017 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13475453 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


I don't think this is a big deal in the scheme of things, but all this stuff adds up. Woj and others always talk about how a part of being a successful GM is building relationships. Summer league in Vegas is an opportunity for that and Phil clearly has no interest in it.


It literally does not mean anything at all, but it's something fans (myself included) really look forward to. I'm not sure how participating in it is a negative.
Paul  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 2:18 pm : link
George is now a lock to LAL. Do they wait or make a deal for him?
RE: Paul  
giantsfan44ab : 5/18/2017 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13475471 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
George is now a lock to LAL. Do they wait or make a deal for him?


I wait if I'm the Lakers. I'd only consider a deal that takes off salary from the books. Maybe Clarkson and a late 1st for PG? Pacers don't really have leverage. PG will cost less than Cousins did I'd imagine.
RE: Paul  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/18/2017 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13475471 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
George is now a lock to LAL. Do they wait or make a deal for him?


Will the Pacers accept Russell and a pick for him?
i wait..  
nygiants16 : 5/18/2017 2:23 pm : link
i bet they dangle russell though to try and add another superstar and unload deng or mozgov...

it cant just be george, they need to add 1 more maybe 2
RE: RE: Paul  
giantsfan44ab : 5/18/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13475477 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 13475471 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


George is now a lock to LAL. Do they wait or make a deal for him?



Will the Pacers accept Russell and a pick for him?


In a heartbeat I would think. Not a high pick though, would have to be heavily protected. Indiana holds no cards here.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 2:36 pm : link
Unbelievable how poor the Clippers tradable assets are. Only gave up 1 first in the now ancient Chris Paul deal #Knicks
Why is he a lock to LA  
Deej : 5/18/2017 3:22 pm : link
because he missed the all NBA team and cant be super maxed?

Isnt it likely that if LA doesnt get him now that IND trades him as a rental to a contender? Isnt there a good chance he ends up happy on that contender and resigns? What if he gets traded to LAC in a 3 way where Blake or Deandre get assets to IND somehow? Or Boston with it's amazing depth?

I dont know about lock. I think LA should put an offer out for him now if they badly want him.
RE: .  
Deej : 5/18/2017 3:23 pm : link
In comment 13475488 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Unbelievable how poor the Clippers tradable assets are. Only gave up 1 first in the now ancient Chris Paul deal #Knicks


And Cavs. That's the lost part of the "Melo has no value" brigade's argument. The real issue is that the teams he wants to go to have no assets to trade. If LA had a #10 pick and an expiring to match Melo, they'd trade for him in a heartbeat.
RE: Why is he a lock to LA  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13475514 Deej said:
Quote:
because he missed the all NBA team and cant be super maxed?

Isnt it likely that if LA doesnt get him now that IND trades him as a rental to a contender? Isnt there a good chance he ends up happy on that contender and resigns? What if he gets traded to LAC in a 3 way where Blake or Deandre get assets to IND somehow? Or Boston with it's amazing depth?

I dont know about lock. I think LA should put an offer out for him now if they badly want him.


Sure looks like a lock to me. Working out with Kobe and Randle. Woj reports he already through backchannels has told the Lakers not to bother giving up assets for him because hes such a lock.
..  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 3:26 pm : link
@IanBegley (who seemingly has good inside sources) suggests Isaac (HUGE fan) and Tatum could be on the Knicks radar

Begley seems to (unlike Isola and Berman) have someone in the FO that gives him info. Happy to hear this.
RE: RE: Why is he a lock to LA  
Deej : 5/18/2017 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13475521 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13475514 Deej said:


Quote:


because he missed the all NBA team and cant be super maxed?

Isnt it likely that if LA doesnt get him now that IND trades him as a rental to a contender? Isnt there a good chance he ends up happy on that contender and resigns? What if he gets traded to LAC in a 3 way where Blake or Deandre get assets to IND somehow? Or Boston with it's amazing depth?

I dont know about lock. I think LA should put an offer out for him now if they badly want him.



Sure looks like a lock to me. Working out with Kobe and Randle. Woj reports he already through backchannels has told the Lakers not to bother giving up assets for him because hes such a lock.


If he's saying that, so be it. I find that somewhat dubious. And I still think he could change his mind if he goes to a contender. Lets say he goes to Boston this summer. LA is a shit show of Ball family nonsense, lack of development, Russell and Ball being weirdos etc. Boston wins 55-62 games and takes the Cavs to 6 or 7 games. PG is just going to bail on that for less money in LA? Maybe that's his intention now, but lets see about later.

Or Miami gets its mitts on him, and Reilly does whatever it is to charm the shit out of him. Meanwhile, the Buss family devolves into litigation, Magic disappears for days at a time to run his other businesses, and Lavar Ball sets up his own youtube show to yell about the Lakers after being banned from Staples Center for life. Maybe PG revisits.

I just dont buy guarantees.
RE: ..  
nygiants16 : 5/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13475522 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
@IanBegley (who seemingly has good inside sources) suggests Isaac (HUGE fan) and Tatum could be on the Knicks radar

Begley seems to (unlike Isola and Berman) have someone in the FO that gives him info. Happy to hear this.


guess i should start watching some isaac videos then
Isaac is so freaking smooth on the court.  
bceagle05 : 5/18/2017 3:40 pm : link
I'm a big fan of his game.
I do question if the Lakers are seen the same way these days  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 3:43 pm : link
as they were forever before. The unsettled nature of the power structure, the fact that Magic Johnson has no more experience running a franchise than Phil Jackson did (and an embarrassing coaching stint too), the fact that their supposed young talent has largely been disappointing....I could definitely see Deej's scenario playing out.
Celtics  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 3:51 pm : link
expected to make a "huge" run at Hayward.
RE: Celtics  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 3:56 pm : link
In comment 13475550 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
expected to make a "huge" run at Hayward.


Gee....why is that? haha
Lakers  
TyreeHelmet : 5/18/2017 3:56 pm : link
Don't discount Rob Pelinka their GM. One of the most powerful and influential agents in the NBA. Guy is widely respected.

If I'm the Pacers, I hold onto him and hope he makes an all NBA team next year. He's then still eligible for the super max. I'm making him turn down extra 70 mill to go the Lakers.

Conversely I'm not waiting for him if I'm the Lakers because of that. They also don't have pick next year so there's no incentive to be bad again. I'm hoping somehow this situation helps the knicks get something for Melo.
RE: RE: Celtics  
Deej : 5/18/2017 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13475555 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13475550 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


expected to make a "huge" run at Hayward.



Gee....why is that? haha


Well I want to say whiteness, but I think he played for their coach in college.
RE: I do question if the Lakers are seen the same way these days  
nygiants16 : 5/18/2017 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13475543 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
as they were forever before. The unsettled nature of the power structure, the fact that Magic Johnson has no more experience running a franchise than Phil Jackson did (and an embarrassing coaching stint too), the fact that their supposed young talent has largely been disappointing....I could definitely see Deej's scenario playing out.


what the lakers have going for them is no matter what they do nobody rips them, when magic was hired all we heard was it was a great move, phil was hired who evwryone said the lakers should hire but as soon as he signed with knicks evwrybody ripped. the move...
Yes, he played for Brad Stevens at Butler  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 4:05 pm : link
.
RE: RE: I do question if the Lakers are seen the same way these days  
TyreeHelmet : 5/18/2017 4:24 pm : link
In comment 13475561 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13475543 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


as they were forever before. The unsettled nature of the power structure, the fact that Magic Johnson has no more experience running a franchise than Phil Jackson did (and an embarrassing coaching stint too), the fact that their supposed young talent has largely been disappointing....I could definitely see Deej's scenario playing out.



what the lakers have going for them is no matter what they do nobody rips them, when magic was hired all we heard was it was a great move, phil was hired who evwryone said the lakers should hire but as soon as he signed with knicks evwrybody ripped. the move...


To be fair most people applauded the hiring of Phil at first. Myself included. Phil and the Knicks get ripped because they have been awful for his 3 years and Phil's done a bad job.
Haven't  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 4:29 pm : link
heard it myself but people on reddit insist Redick has previously stated on podcasts the triangle is outdated and also on occasions implied he doesn't like the mess in NY with the Knicks. I can't imagine we will have to worry about him unless the Knicks do something ridiculous (4 for 80? with nobody else in that range?)
RE: RE: I do question if the Lakers are seen the same way these days  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 4:30 pm : link
In comment 13475561 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13475543 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


as they were forever before. The unsettled nature of the power structure, the fact that Magic Johnson has no more experience running a franchise than Phil Jackson did (and an embarrassing coaching stint too), the fact that their supposed young talent has largely been disappointing....I could definitely see Deej's scenario playing out.



what the lakers have going for them is no matter what they do nobody rips them, when magic was hired all we heard was it was a great move, phil was hired who evwryone said the lakers should hire but as soon as he signed with knicks evwrybody ripped. the move...


Yeah all due respect (and I find your optimism far less annoying than most homers). The VAST majority were loving the Phil hire (media included). Fans were excited. That positivity has eroded. Trust me, Magic would face the same if 3 seasons in the Lakers are in the Knicks situation.
maybe i am misremembering then  
nygiants16 : 5/18/2017 4:34 pm : link
..
My take is  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 4:37 pm : link
What you don't want the Knicks to do is force a pick. You only get so many chances to land a difference maker (pick high). Odds are we will be in the lottery again next year but who knows after that? You'd like to believe 2 seasons from now KP, Willy, whomever we take this year and next + whomever else we add = the Knicks being a playoff caliber team (if not Phil's tenure here was a disaster). So while I think most would agree we need a PG, don't take a PG because of need. Take the best player that fits your team. Worry about PG (if the right guy isn't there) later. A hypothetical... Sergio Rodriguez/Isaac/Josh Hart (2nd round) + whatever asset we can pull for Melo would have the arrow pointing up. Personally I'd like to see them sign Sergio Rodriguez (whether we draft a PG or not) and check out the price on Ian Clark (and even Jonathan Simmons).
DMM  
Pep22 : 5/18/2017 4:43 pm : link
very smart approach there
Well said Dan  
TyreeHelmet : 5/18/2017 4:49 pm : link
When this pick develops 3-4 years from now, the roster could be completely different and I'm guessing they won't be running the triangle. Go for best player available with the highest upside. Don't try to get a guy who fits a system or need.

I'm all in on the Ian Clark signing as well. He's looked really good in limited action. Smart player than can shoot. Sign him and flip Lee for a pick this year or next. I really hope they do a true rebuild.
RE: Well said Dan  
nygiants16 : 5/18/2017 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13475596 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
When this pick develops 3-4 years from now, the roster could be completely different and I'm guessing they won't be running the triangle. Go for best player available with the highest upside. Don't try to get a guy who fits a system or need.

I'm all in on the Ian Clark signing as well. He's looked really good in limited action. Smart player than can shoot. Sign him and flip Lee for a pick this year or next. I really hope they do a true rebuild.


i have defended phil a lot but if he does not go full rebuild i am joining the dark side..

no more. quick fixes, if they suck next year and are young then so be it
I'll admit it - I thought the Phil hire was great  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 4:56 pm : link
I mean, when the likely alternative is Steve Mills or Alan Houston, almost anything looks good in comparison.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/18/2017 4:58 pm : link
Clark would surely be a scouting decision (which is one area the Knicks seem to be in reasonably solid shape, Noah decision aside...we know that came directly from Phil anyway). As with anything the price would be the deciding factor. I just think Clark has some untapped upside and I'm not sure the floor is that low. Career 36% from 3 (good/solid), 46% from the field, 26 years old. I'm not going to go nuts adding him but I think he'd be a nice add. Simmons you are more than likely correct (though it does seem like the Spurs may "do some things" this off-season if the rumored Paul/Lowry pursuit is legit) we could see a team "get lucky" and snipe a guy like Simmons (or Patty Mills, I love Mills but not for the Knicks at this time). Rodriguez/Livingston types are likely where we should have gone vs. going after Rose. The focus of this season should be 1. Getting rid of the stink on the franchise (Like/dislike Melo and Rose it's time to move on). 2. Properly developing KP/Willy. Giving them a PG who cares more about setting them up than his own shot. Guys like Rodriguez/Livingston also could/would serve as veteran mentors should we take a PG at 8. Both are known as class acts. The Knicks have plenty of cap room they can overpay one of these guys on a 1-2 year deal and still be beneficial. 3. Develop an identity. What are the Knicks? The Knicks should be about playing hard, giving effort or not playing. Change the culture. Wins and losses should be viewed as "secondary" to the cause. How they play is the key. They can win 28 games next season and have it still be viewed as a success.

Add talent, young and hungry talent. THjr and Grant are legit NBA players, Baker looks solid, KP a stud, Willy could be very good. The scouts seem pretty good. Let them do their thing.
RE: ..  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/18/2017 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13475522 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
@IanBegley (who seemingly has good inside sources) suggests Isaac (HUGE fan) and Tatum could be on the Knicks radar

Begley seems to (unlike Isola and Berman) have someone in the FO that gives him info. Happy to hear this.


I would LOVE to draft Isaac, but I think 1 of the 7 teams in front of us will be smart enough to grab him. I'm not going to get my hopes up.
Yeah, let's not torture ourselves with some of these names.  
bceagle05 : 5/18/2017 5:12 pm : link
Tatum and Isaac are likely both off the board, unless someone falls in love with Markkanen. Smith, Monk and Frank are more realistic.
DMM  
Pep22 : 5/18/2017 5:22 pm : link
based on your thoughts and mine, I'd love to have an offseason that ends up w/ a roster that is young, lacks primadonna "me" players, plays w/ effort and intelligence every night. Guys like Simmons or Clark or Porter fit that mold.

Super Cheap FAs that do as well:

1 Langston Galloway is welcome back as far as I'm concerned
2 James Johnson - actually, he won't be that cheap
3 I always thought Omri Casspi would be a good bench player
4 KJ McDaniels
5 Christian Wood - huge upside just waiting for the right situation/coach to become an impact player
Great points Dan about Offseason  
TyreeHelmet : 5/18/2017 5:23 pm : link
One other thing I really hope they do is keep the cap clean for the 2020 offseason. Willy will have a very small cap hold, KP won't be making big money yet, and the contracts of Noah/ Lance/ Lee will be off the books. Also the the draft picks moving forward will still be on their rookie deals. Hopefully by then the team is heading in the right direction and can really go for it in free agency. Essentially I want a situation where the Knicks have a bunch of young guys than can keep by going over the cap while also spending big on free agents. You want to be able to use Dolan's one advantage; he'll spend whatever it takes.

I know its a long way off but I hope they plan for this. Imagine having a young nucleous of KP/ Willy plus 3/4 young building blocks and being able to supplement that with a couple max guys? One can dream....
..  
nygiants16 : 5/18/2017 7:47 pm : link
knicks have contacted smith to schedule a workout...

deaaron fox says he likes the kings, supposedly really good friends with wcs and wants to go to kings
RE: RE: RE: I do question if the Lakers are seen the same way these days  
Ten Ton Hammer : 5/18/2017 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13475581 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13475561 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13475543 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


as they were forever before. The unsettled nature of the power structure, the fact that Magic Johnson has no more experience running a franchise than Phil Jackson did (and an embarrassing coaching stint too), the fact that their supposed young talent has largely been disappointing....I could definitely see Deej's scenario playing out.



what the lakers have going for them is no matter what they do nobody rips them, when magic was hired all we heard was it was a great move, phil was hired who evwryone said the lakers should hire but as soon as he signed with knicks evwrybody ripped. the move...



To be fair most people applauded the hiring of Phil at first. Myself included. Phil and the Knicks get ripped because they have been awful for his 3 years and Phil's done a bad job.


I thought it was a good move too. The only bad thing you could have said about it at the time was that he had no experience as a team president, but that has never really mattered in the NBA.

Sometimes moves that aren't necessarily wrong still don't work out.

Like, this hasn't been bad because Phil doesn't want to do work, or he's out in LA just collecting a check.

He might simply not have the temperament or the patience in his old age to do this job. Part of what makes a competent GM is being adaptable and having an eye on the future. It's spotting trends in how the game is played, and how it might be played in 3-5 years, it's learning how to work with player and agent personalities. For as free-spirited and apparently high minded as Phil Jackson is thought to be, he's been a total curmudgeon about the idea of modern basketball.

.  
Anakim : 5/19/2017 12:06 am : link
Kurt Helin‏ @basketballtalk
Report: Hawks offered Pacers 4 first round picks for Paul George at the trade deadline
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