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Tight Ends will be key to increased versatility of Giants' O

gidiefor : Mod : 5/18/2017 9:34 am
Quote:
...the Giants' actions this offseason indicate that they're aware of the need to add variety to the offense. Signing Ellison to a four-year, $18 million contract and picking Engram in the first round of the draft have provided the Giants with two versatile pieces that were missing last season.


- more by Dan Duggan -
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Versatility? It is blindingly obvious that the offense will  
Marty in Albany : 5/18/2017 11:00 am : link
be better, not just more "versatile," because we now have a TE who is a much better blocker than what we had last year, and another TE who is a much better receiver than what we had last year.

When you replace a poor player with a good player, the team gets better. Forget versatility. The Giants can run the same damn plays as last year, but now those plays will work because they are being run by more talented players.

So why the "versatility" angle? There is no story if Duggan just writes that the new TEs are better than the old TEs.
I think we can be versatile via  
AnishPatel : 5/18/2017 1:32 pm : link
more formations and utilization of players in different spots. I can us using the Full house backfield and use a two TE back there. One can be the role of Kuhn and the other as the H back or TE. In short yardage or goal line situations have both guys come out of the backfield.

So I can see us doing any many different things. We can also run Y trips and have Engram and Marshall both use their size to block for the WR screens. I am excited to see what we can do with this roster.
most of the versatility comes  
Ron Johnson : 5/18/2017 1:46 pm : link
if Engram can be an effective blocker. They can go from a heavy run look to a 3 wide look by putting him in motion, opening up the playbook substantially. But for it to work his blocking ability has to be respected.

The net of it is the same as last year. If the Giants can run the ball respectably, everything will work better
the amount of formations we can use  
area junc : 5/18/2017 1:49 pm : link
is endless.

We need to see something from McAdoo now. He's had his excuses - the 1st 2 years he was tied in with Tom, last year he didn't have the personnel.

This is the year. No more excuses. Let's see what you've got.
Don't forget Adams  
Chris L. : 5/18/2017 7:31 pm : link
a good looking two way TE who had a nice rookie season. If you recall he also was the fastest TE in Indy at his combine. You have Ellison and Adams as your blocking TE's and Engram as the hybrid. Lots of possibilities which can be run out of many different formations. We will be MUCH better in the red zone.
RE: most of the versatility comes  
Brick72 : 5/18/2017 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13475418 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
if Engram can be an effective blocker. They can go from a heavy run look to a 3 wide look by putting him in motion, opening up the playbook substantially. But for it to work his blocking ability has to be respected.

The net of it is the same as last year. If the Giants can run the ball respectably, everything will work better

Ellison will be in on running or 3 wideout plays. Engram will be in on block and release plays. He'll release against charging or committed LBs and drop into the slot or middle zones. If his block and release is effective there will be one less LB in the middle of the field and Engram becomes a major problem.

The upside is after a few successful plays like this the MLB has to stay back and the safeties have to come out of Cover 2.

So the defense adjusts and the Giants go 3 wide with Marshall instead. No contest.

The question is does McAdoo see this? It's fundamental and hard to counter. McAdoo is smart but got buried in a predictable playbook last year because there weren't too many options. Now he has options like this. We'll have to see.
The Giants could go  
Jay on the Island : 5/18/2017 7:47 pm : link
from the weakest group of tight ends in football to one of the best in one year. Ellison is among the best blocking TE's in football. If Engram contributes as expected they will have a dangerous weapon. People often forget about Jerrell Adams but he has a very high upside as well. He now has an entire season in the system and just as importantly an entire offseason in the strength and conditioning program. He has the potential to be a complete two way TE and if he continues to work hard he could become a weapon as well. I am very excited about the TE position.
I think the whole  
Glover : 5/18/2017 8:16 pm : link
Versatility thing is overrated. I hope Mac stays with the 11 personnel 95% of the time again. The O line has to be better than last year, cant get worse, despite the Eli is on rhe back 9, and the blame hez getting for last years offensive struggles. Better ryn blocking and better protecrion, run game worksand the O is super sexy again.
Articles like this must feel like a bitch slap  
SHO'NUFF : 5/18/2017 8:21 pm : link
to Larry and Will.
RE: Don't forget Adams  
SGMen : 5/18/2017 8:28 pm : link
In comment 13475706 Chris L. said:
Quote:
a good looking two way TE who had a nice rookie season. If you recall he also was the fastest TE in Indy at his combine. You have Ellison and Adams as your blocking TE's and Engram as the hybrid. Lots of possibilities which can be run out of many different formations. We will be MUCH better in the red zone.
I can see the NY Giants using more 2 TE offense with Ellison remaining in-line to chip and catch short passes (or just run block) and Engram splitting out more.

In one TE sets, it is hard to say right now who will get the most snaps but to start the year it will likely be veteran Ellison and by mid-season Engram should be the weapon of choice at TE. A third corner would have a tough time covering Engram on certain routes due to his big body.

I think we carry four TE's this year: Ellison, Engram, Adams and Tye. Or as unlikely as it may sound, maybe we trade W. Tye? Camp will be telling but if Adams improves by a lot; if Tye improves a little; if Engram is as good as I and many others think he is receiving; and, if Ellison remains his consistent self, not only will we throw the ball much better but we'll run much better as well.

Lastly, while Brandon Marshall is a WR and a future HOF'er, he is as big as many of the TE's in today's league. We should have a big, fast, quick offense this year. If Ellison can help our OT's when matchup issues are there we will be in good shape. Look at what Witten does for the Cowboys, though Witten is getting older and you have to hope he is limited to being a blocker and short line pass receiver this year...that would help us beat them more easily.
Curious question: FB W. Johnson  
SGMen : 5/18/2017 8:35 pm : link
Last year, when we lost him and Nikita, I thought it was a huge blow to both our blocking and our special teams. I wonder if we aren't division champs with a healthy FB Johnson all year. I say this because none of our TE's last year could block worth a damn and it really limited our offense. A single guy that could block and catch could have really helped. Also, Johnson was a special team's stud who could have made a fairly solid group better.

On a separate note and continuation of my post right above, the key to this offense's versatility lies in the TE position, YES, but it also will be dependent upon how much Engram, Adams and Tye develop. Adams was raw but clearly had skills that he flashed late last year. Tye came out of Stony Brook and had a lot to learn and he came on strong late last year and in the playoffs. Engram is a rookie so you don't know until camp is well underway what you have.

My take is we come out of the gates strong since Ellison is a veteran; Adams knows the offense and should be improved along with Tye. Engram may take some time and have limited route snaps to start but he is a pure talent, no doubt in my mind, and will create mis-matches for us soon enough.

Go Giants! Who BTW could use a 3rd receiver to step up for a Marshall or OBJ should (God forbid) that need arise. Sharpe is a #3 slot guy not a #2 or #1. WR Harris could likely play a little but he scares no one.
EXCELLENT  
River : 5/18/2017 8:45 pm : link
column by Duggan. I think we can see that last year mac really was strapped with what he could do with the personal he had.
RE: EXCELLENT  
SGMen : 5/18/2017 10:25 pm : link
In comment 13475742 River said:
Quote:
column by Duggan. I think we can see that last year mac really was strapped with what he could do with the personal he had.
This team doesn't make the playoffs without OBJ. We had one playmaker, that is it.

This year, I can honestly see TE Engram, WR Sharpe and RB Perkins all playing "playmaker" roles. WR Brandon Marshall will also be a force, especially in the redzone where we need him most. We have weapons this year, we just need to stay healthy.
How about some 13 personnel?  
adamg : 5/19/2017 1:25 am : link
Ellison and Adams in line, Engram in the slot (can move him out wide, move him in the back field, etc.), and Odell out wide.

Can run the ball, can go into a play action pass, can even run Adams deep, Engram underneath, and Odell down the side lines, making the safeties go crazy. Adams had a bad drop last year down the field, but that was also the only play he was throw to down the field. If Adams pans out into a serviceable receiver or even as good as Donnell was down the field, we could be dangerous passing the ball in any formation and any personnel.

Eli should be able to really punish defenses with our talent upgrades. No more unidimensional receiving options. Real TEs who can scare people. And Vereen back to give Eli more than Shep or Odell as an option in those 3 and 7 situations.
RE: How about some 13 personnel?  
SGMen : 5/19/2017 7:25 am : link
In comment 13475860 adamg said:
Quote:
Ellison and Adams in line, Engram in the slot (can move him out wide, move him in the back field, etc.), and Odell out wide.

Can run the ball, can go into a play action pass, can even run Adams deep, Engram underneath, and Odell down the side lines, making the safeties go crazy. Adams had a bad drop last year down the field, but that was also the only play he was throw to down the field. If Adams pans out into a serviceable receiver or even as good as Donnell was down the field, we could be dangerous passing the ball in any formation and any personnel.

Eli should be able to really punish defenses with our talent upgrades. No more unidimensional receiving options. Real TEs who can scare people. And Vereen back to give Eli more than Shep or Odell as an option in those 3 and 7 situations.
We know Ellison can block and can catch a bit; so if Adams also develops into a solid blocker (he has the frame...) and receiver, well, we have a two TE lineup that would create running room AND allow for the short passing game to still work.
Even RB Perkins could operate as a runner or receiver behind these two.
And Engram split out is a receiver / blocker.
It will be interesting to see how many lineups McAdoo and staff come up with given our new personnel. Not many teams have solid 2 TE lineups.
RE: RE: How about some 13 personnel?  
adamg : 5/19/2017 7:30 am : link
In comment 13475893 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13475860 adamg said:


Quote:


Ellison and Adams in line, Engram in the slot (can move him out wide, move him in the back field, etc.), and Odell out wide.

Can run the ball, can go into a play action pass, can even run Adams deep, Engram underneath, and Odell down the side lines, making the safeties go crazy. Adams had a bad drop last year down the field, but that was also the only play he was throw to down the field. If Adams pans out into a serviceable receiver or even as good as Donnell was down the field, we could be dangerous passing the ball in any formation and any personnel.

Eli should be able to really punish defenses with our talent upgrades. No more unidimensional receiving options. Real TEs who can scare people. And Vereen back to give Eli more than Shep or Odell as an option in those 3 and 7 situations.

We know Ellison can block and can catch a bit; so if Adams also develops into a solid blocker (he has the frame...) and receiver, well, we have a two TE lineup that would create running room AND allow for the short passing game to still work.
Even RB Perkins could operate as a runner or receiver behind these two.
And Engram split out is a receiver / blocker.
It will be interesting to see how many lineups McAdoo and staff come up with given our new personnel. Not many teams have solid 2 TE lineups.


Didn't even think about Perkins as a receiver in that set. Could set up some interesting looks with Perkins in space with Ellison or Adams leading the way. Or even a Beckham screen.

I was also wondering if they would consider running a 02 personnel with Shep in the backfield in the RB spot and Engram in the slot. They did give him a few carries last year. I don't think he was in the backfield though.

If Ellison can be the consistent blocker they anticipate he is, they can do a whole lot of new looks.
RE: RE: RE: How about some 13 personnel?  
SGMen : 5/19/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13475894 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13475893 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13475860 adamg said:


Quote:


Ellison and Adams in line, Engram in the slot (can move him out wide, move him in the back field, etc.), and Odell out wide.

Can run the ball, can go into a play action pass, can even run Adams deep, Engram underneath, and Odell down the side lines, making the safeties go crazy. Adams had a bad drop last year down the field, but that was also the only play he was throw to down the field. If Adams pans out into a serviceable receiver or even as good as Donnell was down the field, we could be dangerous passing the ball in any formation and any personnel.

Eli should be able to really punish defenses with our talent upgrades. No more unidimensional receiving options. Real TEs who can scare people. And Vereen back to give Eli more than Shep or Odell as an option in those 3 and 7 situations.

We know Ellison can block and can catch a bit; so if Adams also develops into a solid blocker (he has the frame...) and receiver, well, we have a two TE lineup that would create running room AND allow for the short passing game to still work.
Even RB Perkins could operate as a runner or receiver behind these two.
And Engram split out is a receiver / blocker.
It will be interesting to see how many lineups McAdoo and staff come up with given our new personnel. Not many teams have solid 2 TE lineups.



Didn't even think about Perkins as a receiver in that set. Could set up some interesting looks with Perkins in space with Ellison or Adams leading the way. Or even a Beckham screen.

I was also wondering if they would consider running a 02 personnel with Shep in the backfield in the RB spot and Engram in the slot. They did give him a few carries last year. I don't think he was in the backfield though.

If Ellison can be the consistent blocker they anticipate he is, they can do a whole lot of new looks.
Yeah, I'm sot so sure about Sharpe in the backfield since he can't pick up the blitz and every team would know it. But hey, I could be wrong.

The point is that versatility should certainly be there with the personnel we have. Just please stay healthy and have a good camp where you practice together so you come out the gates strong and start 4-0 or better. We travel a lot so a lull will happen but a good start would really help. As well as a strong finish, of course!
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