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The Baylor scandal just keeps getting worse

Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 9:49 am
Quote:
The latest trouble for the already maligned football program comes in the form of a Title IX lawsuit filed against the university, in which a former Baylor volleyball player alleges she was gang raped by as many as eight Bears football players in 2012 as part of a “bonding” experience for the team.


I know people say the death penalty will never happen again, but if this isn't a "lack of institutional control", what is? And there's no fig leaf of "oops, not really our jurisdiction" as there was with Pedo State.

It's even more incredible and sickening given Baylor's history with the Dave Bliss basketball scandal.
Link - ( New Window )
Jesus  
UConn4523 : 5/18/2017 9:53 am : link
hard to even read that sentence.

I don't know how the people making these decisions sleep at night. And sadly, there's far too many people in this world that simply don't do the right thing when they have all the power to do just that.
Universities will  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/18/2017 9:56 am : link
look the other way if profitable programs are involved.
Forget the lawsuit,  
section125 : 5/18/2017 10:23 am : link
why wasn't it reported to the police. You would think somebody raped by 8 people would tell the police.
RE: Forget the lawsuit,  
UConn4523 : 5/18/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13475039 section125 said:
Quote:
why wasn't it reported to the police. You would think somebody raped by 8 people would tell the police.


Come on, how many battered wife and rape stories are there where the victim is too scared to go to the police? It happens at a very high rate.
it's a real, thorny problem  
ColHowPepper : 5/18/2017 10:32 am : link
remember the Jameis Winston lag between alleged event, reports, so-called campus police and police department "investigations". Where there is a clear culture of tolerance for sex aggression, victims will have a difficult time bucking the tide, but the fact is they must.

Who knows the actual facts here, but the passage of time, a long time, only serves to obscure and render more difficult getting it right. And even then, it might not be gotten right, as in the case of the Stanford swimmer.
RE: it's a real, thorny problem  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13475068 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
remember the Jameis Winston lag between alleged event, reports, so-called campus police and police department "investigations". Where there is a clear culture of tolerance for sex aggression, victims will have a difficult time bucking the tide, but the fact is they must.

Who knows the actual facts here, but the passage of time, a long time, only serves to obscure and render more difficult getting it right. And even then, it might not be gotten right, as in the case of the Stanford swimmer.


There is apparently a video of this. Different story than the others if true.
Wow, this is horrific.  
Section331 : 5/18/2017 10:47 am : link
If any institution were worthy of the death penalty, this is the one. It makes SMU look like a tea party. People should go to jail, but they'll get away with paying a settlement.
Matt Rhule...  
Chris in Philly : 5/18/2017 11:04 am : link
made a big mistake going there.
If Penn State...  
Chris in Philly : 5/18/2017 11:05 am : link
didn't get the death penalty, nobody will. No school ever deserved it more than that shit hole...
RE: RE: Forget the lawsuit,  
section125 : 5/18/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13475049 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13475039 section125 said:


Quote:


why wasn't it reported to the police. You would think somebody raped by 8 people would tell the police.



Come on, how many battered wife and rape stories are there where the victim is too scared to go to the police? It happens at a very high rate.


It is not come on. She reported it to somebody at the school it looks like. Next stop should have been police (or maybe the 1st stop). I could understand reluctance in a one on one, especially if alcohol was clouding her mind and she wasn't sure what really happened, but 8 people is beyond brutal and incomprehensible.

Battered wife is another banana because of the previous emotional bond to the batterer (husband). I don't think the situations are the same beside the acts.
RE: Wow, this is horrific.  
njm : 5/18/2017 11:16 am : link
In comment 13475100 Section331 said:
Quote:
If any institution were worthy of the death penalty, this is the one. It makes SMU look like a tea party. People should go to jail, but they'll get away with paying a settlement.


SMU stepped on some big toes in the old SWC and then didn't stop after they got caught. Not saying that's right, just saying that's the way it is.
Baylor is a worse version of SMU  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 5/18/2017 11:19 am : link
Let's not forget $cott Drew.
Eh, nothing to see here.  
B in ALB : 5/18/2017 11:29 am : link
Much ado about nothing. We need to focus on student-athletes getting a little extra help on a term paper and possibly earning a couple bucks volunteering at questionable organizations like the YMCA and local churches. Those individuals are breaking the contract between student-athlete and school and should be punished severely. This Baylor thing? Penn State? UNC? Not so much.

- Mark Emmert
College sports can really be a cesspool  
Mr. Bungle : 5/18/2017 11:33 am : link
of human depravity. The stories about some of these big problems and scandals over the last ten or so years have been beyond comprehension to me.

And those are the ones we know about. Obviously, there are all kinds of things going on that are swept under the rug, "disappeared" with settlements, etc.

It's fucking sports. Sports.
RE: RE: Wow, this is horrific.  
Section331 : 5/18/2017 11:37 am : link
In comment 13475190 njm said:
Quote:

SMU stepped on some big toes in the old SWC and then didn't stop after they got caught. Not saying that's right, just saying that's the way it is.


Understood, I'm not arguing that what SMU did wasn't that bad, rather that it pales in comparison to what has gone on at Baylor.
I don't know the full context of the Baylor story  
UConn4523 : 5/18/2017 11:42 am : link
but there's tons of reasons why women don't go to the police. Speculating why she didn't is pointless. She could have been threatened, she could have not wanted to be the center of a huge investigation, she could have been lying. Who knows.
NCAA? I think at this point there is an argument to be made  
Stu11 : 5/18/2017 11:42 am : link
that the state's Attorney General office could have a right to shut that damn program down.
RE: RE: RE: Wow, this is horrific.  
njm : 5/18/2017 11:52 am : link
In comment 13475231 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13475190 njm said:


Quote:



SMU stepped on some big toes in the old SWC and then didn't stop after they got caught. Not saying that's right, just saying that's the way it is.



Understood, I'm not arguing that what SMU did wasn't that bad, rather that it pales in comparison to what has gone on at Baylor.


Being explicit, the difference is WHO got hurt. UT and A&M boosters or a couple of co-eds.
RE: RE: it's a real, thorny problem  
ColHowPepper : 5/18/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13475073 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13475068 ColHowPepper said:

Quote:...

Who knows the actual facts here, but the passage of time, a long time, only serves to obscure and render more difficult getting it right. And even then, it might not be gotten right, as in the case of the Stanford swimmer.

There is apparently a video of this. Different story than the others if true.

Greg, that was exactly my point, about getting it right: where the actual facts are known and it comes out relatively soon--the the video taken of the swimmer over the victim--i.e., just when it's possible that the perp will be accorded justice, even then the swimmer got a slap on the wrist. When the passage of time obscures, the perp seems an average guy, and the outrage is dimmed, the odds against achieving justice become much lower, against the stacked deck.
Death Penalty from 2012 incident  
djstat : 5/18/2017 12:56 pm : link
Ok first and foremost this is sooo disturbing...that said if it is no longer going on why do the kids of todays program get punished for what happened in 2012?
RE: Eh, nothing to see here.  
HomerJones45 : 5/18/2017 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13475213 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Much ado about nothing. We need to focus on student-athletes getting a little extra help on a term paper and possibly earning a couple bucks volunteering at questionable organizations like the YMCA and local churches. Those individuals are breaking the contract between student-athlete and school and should be punished severely. This Baylor thing? Penn State? UNC? Not so much.

- Mark Emmert
It's impossible not to say enough bad things about that clown. He just sucks.
RE: Death Penalty from 2012 incident  
njm : 5/18/2017 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13475344 djstat said:
Quote:
Ok first and foremost this is sooo disturbing...that said if it is no longer going on why do the kids of todays program get punished for what happened in 2012?


So when do these schools ever get punished for covering up this behavior? There will always be kids affected who did no wrong.
The problem is.......  
Tom [Giants fan] : 5/18/2017 1:18 pm : link
the current players are going to pay the price for this. The players who did this have graduated. While they will face legal issues and be punished in that way, the football program is going to be punished and players who had nothing to do with this and were not even on the team will be punished.
The players can transfer with immediate eligibility elsewhere  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 1:22 pm : link
That's what happened with SMU. So they'll have to play somewhere other than Baylor. Big deal.
For those interested in the mindset of women who've been raped  
Frank in Silver Spring : 5/18/2017 1:32 pm : link
I'd recommend the book Missoula. If you haven't heard of it, just Google and learn a bit of the background, which - in short - focuses on the nexus of locally famous athletes, stereotypes of women who've been assaulted and the police/criminal justice system. I just finished it and it was well worth my time.
RE: The problem is.......  
njm : 5/18/2017 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13475381 Tom [Giants fan] said:
Quote:
the current players are going to pay the price for this. The players who did this have graduated. While they will face legal issues and be punished in that way, the football program is going to be punished and players who had nothing to do with this and were not even on the team will be punished.


The football program SHOULD be punished. Otherwise it's rinse and repeat. As Greg says, the players should be allowed an immediate transfer.
If there's a video of this heinous act, the players need to be named  
Tom in NY : 5/18/2017 1:40 pm : link
and prosecuted.

This needs to be a warning sign to every "team bonding" activity out there that this behavior is criminal, offensive, and unacceptable.

Jail time for the 8 players, and anyone else in the room, is in order.
RE: RE: The problem is.......  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 5/18/2017 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13475403 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13475381 Tom [Giants fan] said:


Quote:


the current players are going to pay the price for this. The players who did this have graduated. While they will face legal issues and be punished in that way, the football program is going to be punished and players who had nothing to do with this and were not even on the team will be punished.



The football program SHOULD be punished. Otherwise it's rinse and repeat. As Greg says, the players should be allowed an immediate transfer.


No I would say both revenue programs get suspended. School basically sold its soul for sports. The last two men's basketball coaches are as shady as it gets.
RE: RE: RE: The problem is.......  
njm : 5/18/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13475414 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13475403 njm said:


Quote:


In comment 13475381 Tom [Giants fan] said:


Quote:


the current players are going to pay the price for this. The players who did this have graduated. While they will face legal issues and be punished in that way, the football program is going to be punished and players who had nothing to do with this and were not even on the team will be punished.



The football program SHOULD be punished. Otherwise it's rinse and repeat. As Greg says, the players should be allowed an immediate transfer.



No I would say both revenue programs get suspended. School basically sold its soul for sports revenues. The last two men's basketball coaches are as shady as it gets.


Fixed it for you
Speaking of Baylor basketball, has anyone seen Disgraced?  
Greg from LI : 5/18/2017 2:03 pm : link
It's a Showtime documentary about the Patrick Dennehy murder and the cover up. Man, what a worthless piece of garbage Dave Bliss is. When he thinks the cameras aren't rolling, he starts spouting the same bullshit about Dennehy that he claimed at the time, and which he was secretly recorded manufacturing by an assistant who refused to be a part of his scheme.
If it was truly a rape  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/18/2017 3:18 pm : link
Then yes they should be punished. No doubt.

The whole situation where a girl gets a train run on her is not a Baylor specific thing however. I knew plenty of male athletes in College that all had sex with the same woman pretty much one after the other. I had a friend that played for USC California and he told me had seen/heard other football players speak of running a train on a girl. My wife dated DJ Strawberrys son at UMD and one of the players asked if she was "down"(meaning for multiple men to have sec with here). This kind of activity happens everywhere in D1 football.

The thing that some people might not get is that their are women who do this willingly and definitely some that do not. I don't know how anyone can prove anything. How do we know it's not a woman that just did it, to do it and now has regrets over it because it's known. I can't make that judgement.
RE: If it was truly a rape  
Mad Mike : 5/18/2017 3:22 pm : link
In comment 13475509 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
The thing that some people might not get is that their are women who do this willingly and definitely some that do not. I don't know how anyone can prove anything. How do we know it's not a woman that just did it, to do it and now has regrets over it because it's known. I can't make that judgement.

How is this different from any sexual encounter?
RE: RE: If it was truly a rape  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 5/18/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13475515 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13475509 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


The thing that some people might not get is that their are women who do this willingly and definitely some that do not. I don't know how anyone can prove anything. How do we know it's not a woman that just did it, to do it and now has regrets over it because it's known. I can't make that judgement.


How is this different from any sexual encounter?


That's a good point. I am not an expert on the matter, however I do know that they can prove forcible entry when it only involves a male and a female. When multiple men are involved with 1 female, could some men be implicated, because one was forced?

I think the whole activity is degrading and extremely gross, so I look down upon the entire thing.
RE: Jesus  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 5/18/2017 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13474959 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
hard to even read that sentence.

I don't know how the people making these decisions sleep at night. And sadly, there's far too many people in this world that simply don't do the right thing when they have all the power to do just that.


Ken Starr was the president of Baylor. Are you still surprised these people can sleep at night?
RE: RE: Jesus  
UConn4523 : 5/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13475533 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
Quote:
In comment 13474959 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


hard to even read that sentence.

I don't know how the people making these decisions sleep at night. And sadly, there's far too many people in this world that simply don't do the right thing when they have all the power to do just that.



Ken Starr was the president of Baylor. Are you still surprised these people can sleep at night?


The only thing that surprises me is the sheer number of absolute scum. I get cheating, cutting corners, even breaking the law to make you money and wealth. I can't for the life of me figure out how people that are in charge at Baylor, Penn State, etc sleep at night. I hope they all rot in hell.
RE: Forget the lawsuit,  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 5/18/2017 4:32 pm : link
In comment 13475039 section125 said:
Quote:
why wasn't it reported to the police. You would think somebody raped by 8 people would tell the police.


If you were gang raped by 8 men would you be in a hurry to tell everyone about it?

Embarrassment, and fear play a large role here. Especially for a freshman in college.
RE: RE: Forget the lawsuit,  
Chris in Philly : 5/18/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13475587 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13475039 section125 said:


Quote:


why wasn't it reported to the police. You would think somebody raped by 8 people would tell the police.



If you were gang raped by 8 men would you be in a hurry to tell everyone about it?

Embarrassment, and fear play a large role here. Especially for a freshman in college.


And the long history of law enforcement in big college towns to not take accusations seriously because they may negatively impact the program...
The incompetence of the university aside  
Knineteen : 5/18/2017 4:48 pm : link
Why the fuck would ANYONE go to university personnel to rectify such a harsh accusation?

When did universities become their own sovereign nation where the local police won't investigate on university property?
RE: The incompetence of the university aside  
Chris in Philly : 5/18/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13475594 Knineteen said:
Quote:
Why the fuck would ANYONE go to university personnel to rectify such a harsh accusation?

When did universities become their own sovereign nation where the local police won't investigate on university property?


Most universities have their own police forces.
RE: If it was truly a rape  
SomeFan : 5/18/2017 8:08 pm : link
In comment 13475509 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Then yes they should be punished. No doubt.

The whole situation where a girl gets a train run on her is not a Baylor specific thing however. I knew plenty of male athletes in College that all had sex with the same woman pretty much one after the other. I had a friend that played for USC California and he told me had seen/heard other football players speak of running a train on a girl. My wife dated DJ Strawberrys son at UMD and one of the players asked if she was "down"(meaning for multiple men to have sec with here). This kind of activity happens everywhere in D1 football.

The thing that some people might not get is that their are women who do this willingly and definitely some that do not. I don't know how anyone can prove anything. How do we know it's not a woman that just did it, to do it and now has regrets over it because it's known. I can't make that judgement.


I think you may be right. I know a woman who went to a big football school and it was known not to go to certain football player parties lest you want to be pressured hugely to have sex or forced to have sex. Those parties were no fly zones for her.
if you are the victim of a crime  
Vanzetti : 5/18/2017 8:49 pm : link
you report it to the police

Most universities are not equipped to investigate crimes of any sort. They do not have trained detectives. A panel of faculty, students and administrators is going to conduct an investigation of a crime?

Report the crime to the police. Take the university out of the equation. Unless, of course, you are looking for a payout.

RE: if you are the victim of a crime  
Chris in Philly : 5/18/2017 9:01 pm : link
In comment 13475747 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
you report it to the police

Most universities are not equipped to investigate crimes of any sort. They do not have trained detectives. A panel of faculty, students and administrators is going to conduct an investigation of a crime?

Report the crime to the police. Take the university out of the equation. Unless, of course, you are looking for a payout.


Much of what you just said is wrong.
RE: RE: if you are the victim of a crime  
Vanzetti : 5/18/2017 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13475761 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13475747 Vanzetti said:


Quote:


you report it to the police

Most universities are not equipped to investigate crimes of any sort. They do not have trained detectives. A panel of faculty, students and administrators is going to conduct an investigation of a crime?

Report the crime to the police. Take the university out of the equation. Unless, of course, you are looking for a payout.




Much of what you just said is wrong.


Yeah, not very well expressed on my part. Was not commenting on this case specifically. Meant to respond to posts above about reporting to the police. A lot of universities want to keep things in house. Go the police first thing if you are the victim of an assault. Waiting allows crucial evidence to disappear. For example, if you were drugged, it disappears from your system. Sexual assault is a very serious crime. Report it to the police.
University police are there to look out for #1  
Knineteen : 5/18/2017 11:01 pm : link
They are almost like an HR department...existing to protect the establishment first.
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